#Good champs for jgl iron climbing?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

vague remnant
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Recently dropped from bronze into iron this season during placements and wanted to know who might be a good champ to attempt to climb with? I used to use Reksai because she’s a braindead champ to use, but the nerfs really made her a ton weaker.

So what champs are good to try and play with in jg for comp

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My highest played are like Poppy, Hecarim and Kayn, but they all kinda are generally c to d tier champs in iron

frozen meadow
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Just play champions that you’re good at and you’ll get out, in this case kayn and poppy. Picking an OP champ and getting out won’t make you a better jungler, it’s a quick fix so at some point you’ll just fall back. Play what you’re good at and you’ll be climbing while also getting better yourself

vague remnant
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I mean I guess so, but Poppy is generally just not strong enough for this tank. Since most games end in 20-25 minutes she can’t really hit a point where she is impactful.

Equally is Kayn, but he more so has just fallen off over the last few updates. His only redeeming thing I see people talk about is him having a good clear really?

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Like I feel I’m somewhat good on Poppy but she doesn’t do well In iron due to just champ diff. Like she just loses against Amumu, Sett and Morde Jgl who are often played in this rank

frozen meadow
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You playing her with divine sunderer and black cleaver?

vague remnant
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Yeah, I do. But she just lacks damage by the time they get their spikes is the thing

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I guess if you wanna see what I mean I got a lot of matches of her on my u.gg, but she’s just hard to win with since she’s not a hard carry, but is a tanky frontline in jg

frozen meadow
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I can take a look once I get home

ancient raft
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just focus on improving ur fundamentals and mechanics rather than thinking about what champs will get u out

vague remnant
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I can’t say that’s true, since iron is just who can hyper carry harder it seems. Playing a farmer champ like Fiddle just cannot work in this rank in my experience

ancient raft
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fiddle can 1v9 teamfights

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you win games by abusing opponents mistakes, which is even more important in jungle where you have 3 lanes to abuse

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like sure u could play a hypercarry but if you dont know how to get kills on them then whats the point

vague remnant
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I mean I guess so, but it’s just tough to do much on my current champs I know well enough.

ancient raft
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who do u play

vague remnant
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Since Poppy and Kayn are just, bad champs. I only play them because I kinda get them

ancient raft
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kayn is a good solo carry champ

vague remnant
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Mainly just Poppy, Kayn, Heca, Reksai, generally

ancient raft
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hecarim reksai are also good at solo carrying

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kayn more cuz he can fit vs most team comps

vague remnant
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Not so much now, due to them both getting put into the ground this patch alone

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Due to their nerfs

ancient raft
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i rec sticking with kayn, hes not mechanically difficult so u can just focus on game sense

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like the only actual important mechanics on kayn is q'ing into wall for animation cancel / running up to enemy during gank with e and opening with auto instead of q/w for extra damage early

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the rest is just optimizing clear / jungle macro

vague remnant
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Yeah I guess so. And well I do get advanced stuff on champs at a certain degree. Like how Poppy’s E, if used with flash is unreactabld

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But I guess one thing I do struggle on is sorta related to the macro thing

small wadi
vague remnant
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That being that I just champ around a lane or two when I have a jungle farm up. Like I have gromp/wolves up top side but I’m in bot lane because they seem like a gankable lane

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And it causes me to lose a ton of CS because the enemy jg is taking their camps instead of wasting time

small wadi
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A trick you can do with that is gank before clear. If botlane looks gankable, you go for the play, if it works you can drake, if not just fall back to camps and clear bot to top.

ancient raft
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when you start the game, pick what side of the map you want to play and path towards that side

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its a lot easier on kayn cuz like usually red = path top blue = path bot

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and adjust your clear (let ur camps fully reset and clear according to where u path throughout the game)

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instead of defaulting bot top every game

vague remnant
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Like if you check my last game this cost me 25 CS, with me at 105 cs vs the Viego I’ve been fighting being at 130 or so at a point

ancient raft
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im down to coach u if u want to actually learn

small wadi
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Also sequencing, try to clear all your camps in a similar order and direction. That way when they respawn, you can chain farm them again since all the spawns are synced.

vague remnant
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Yeah sounds like a better idea to get that down. But I guess other other thing people never stop telling me is that I should mute my team because they often will just tilt me

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But I don’t think I can because I feel muting people gives them reason to report me even though usually having them muted means less toxic chat stuff that might make me do worse

ancient raft
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u cant get banned for muting ur team

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honestly the pings and things ppl say in low elo will prob make u think a certain way and make it worse for u

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so its not bad to /deafen every game and think of it as 9 AI

vague remnant
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Eh true, I guess what’s the command for it though

ancient raft
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/deafen

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mutes all chat and pings

small wadi
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./mute all works if you don’t want to pretilt your team by having a deafened jungler

vague remnant
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Since often it does fuck with the mental when I play since everyone in the rank can’t handle if you fuck something up

ancient raft
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yes most players in league are crybabies

small wadi
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Thing is, if you are jungling in Iron, their mental doesn’t really matter

vague remnant
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But I guess kayn is a fine champ to try. I have not played him since the item changes outside of aram. As in Claw mythic and all that

ancient raft
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hes worse than previous seasons imo but still decent

vague remnant
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I guess I did play him once last split like 5 days ago. Went 16/3, but it was due to just inting jg

small wadi
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Thing is, your priority should be learning fundamentals. With proper pathing and mechanics you can climb out of Iron on any champion. Your choice should entirely be what you enjoy playing, strength is irrelevant.

vague remnant
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True and idk my biggest thing stopping me rn is when to farm minions and went to counter jungle/invade their jg

autumn junco
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I'd say Nocturne is by far the best pick in low elo

small wadi
autumn junco
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How come

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He is extremely easy, with a decent clear, that lets you focus on learning the role

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His ult is extremely disgusting in low elos, because they just aren't aware how to play against it

small wadi
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Just picking a specific character as a crutch for that sole reason just means you either don’t have fun, don’t improve or both.

autumn junco
small wadi
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And the answer is all of them.

autumn junco
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How to get hard stuck iron playing nidalee, not learning any jungle fundamentals due to having to focus so much on the mechanical aspects

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All of them is the answer if you are smurfing

small wadi
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Thing is, if Nidalee is what brings you joy in this game, why not just learn Nidalee? It’s gonna be tougher of course, but better long term for game sense and fun.

autumn junco
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Or, you can play an easy champ to learn the role for a couple hundred games, then use the newgained knowledge of fundamentals on a harder to execute champ

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Like, I haven't played adc's ever, if I'm gonna start playing Zeri or smth, I'm gonna be 20% wr over a 100 games

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if I play jhin, it's gonna be closer to 40-45% and I will have gained more knowledge about the role

small wadi
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People often give advice like “Oh play Annie/Garen/Nunu etc to learn the game, then learn what you actually want to play”

Everytime I see people do that they burn out of the game and quit out of boredom. And even if they follow through on that, then you are playing at a higher level with less champion mastery.

autumn junco
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Lol, I started in S10 with garen, learned the fundamentals, climbed to p1 and swapped to more fun/harder champs to climb higher

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If I had played Akali or smth, I might still be sitting in gold

small wadi
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Congratulations you are the exception. Since we are both going with anecdotal evidence, I’ll take the higher sample size.

autumn junco
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With garen I was able to gain vast amounts of game knowledge of how to close out games, when to roam, when to trade, how to manage waves etc.

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You can't do that if you can't even pilot your champ

autumn junco
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Please elaborate.

small wadi
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For better or worse.

autumn junco
autumn junco
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You can't cram in everything in your head at the same time, there's a reason why in the educational system you are taught fundementals first

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You can't understand a complex equation without understanding basic math and no amount of trying to will help

small wadi
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I understand what you mean, and I agree in concept. That being said I believe you are undervaluing champion mastery.

To use the example of Nidalee previously, playing Nidalee is very different mechanically from say… Nocturne, but also in style. So if I were to learn Nocturne, then hit gold, I would be a Gold Nocturne player. If I then tried to swap to a different champion the game would feel very different.

That’s why I would recommend learning the game through the champion you care about. More mechanical champions will of course take longer, maybe you spend a full split or more going slower than you would on something else, but that’s fine.

In the long term, learning the game through the lense of the champion you like lets you grow your champ mastery with your game knowledge.

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Not saying the other method wouldn’t work, I just have seen people struggle with it (in terms of motivation and branching out)

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The whole previous paragraph is somewhat off topic from the original question, but I feel like people often expect a champion to solve their problems or help them climb. “What champ do I pick to 1v9” etc

At the end of the day I feel like it’s the wrong question to ask and leads to unhealthy narratives.

autumn junco
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I've seen way too many million+ mastery players stuck in silver/gold and they are absolutely horrible at the game, they are very good on the champion mechanics, but absolutely suck at everything else

small wadi
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Isn’t that a player issue rather than a method issue?

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They have good mechanics because you can passively practice mechanics just by playing the game, whereas game sense requires an active approach to learn. So their issue isn’t champion, it’s their approach to improving.

autumn junco
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When you are learning a hard champion, mechanics are also active learning

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Which takes away from learning game sense

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Like, you start to play malzahar and press 3 buttons and can look at how the game plays out while the wave is pushed

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Or you start to play zed and all you are focused on is landing Qs and learning combos

small wadi
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Thing is, both of those things will lead to improvement. You can climb to certain elos off of raw mechanics. If someone is passionate about Zed, what’s wrong with first learning to land Qs and then learning wave control?

autumn junco
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A person starting the game as an annie/garen OTP is on average going to reach Diamond way way way quicker, than like an Azir/Zed/Nidalee OTP

small wadi
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Faster absolutely

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100% agree

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But who is having more fun? The person learning the intricacies of a champion, how they interact with marchups and the game and pulling off combos with their favourite champ, or the person queueing their 200th game of Annie to press R on people

autumn junco
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That depends on the player

small wadi
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And 2 seasons later, when the Azir otp catches up their game sense, one person can play their favourite champ in ranked and the other can’t

autumn junco
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I know, I personally wouldn't play like Malphite, but I had fun playing garen back then, because even Garen was somewhat hard for me

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Cause I was new to the game, I didn't know what supports are, what trinkets are, didn't know anything

small wadi
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Hey fair enough if Garen is your jam, nothing wrong with the champion. And if someone wants to play something simple and chill they absolutely should.

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But giving generic advice like “play xy characters to z rank” will not stick with a lot of people

autumn junco
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Nowadays, I do find easy champs boring, but that's because my mechanics have outgrown them and I've learned enough game sense through them

small wadi
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And some people find easy champions boring to start with. Also keep in mind thematics are a big influence here. There’s a reason we see so much Yasuo no matter how bad he is.

autumn junco
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And me, personally, I hate losing way too much, so when I played difficult champs back then, losing a shit ton demotivated me too much to continue playing them

small wadi
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So if someone wants to play Yasuo, saying they have to play prerequisite 200 annie games before they can unlock fun, they will either ignore you or hate the game and quit.

autumn junco
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There's a difference between the questions of "I want to get out of X rank, what should I play to do it quickly" and "I just want to play X champ"

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If a person is stuck in very low elo, and their goal is to escape, the worst thing they can do to achieve that goal is to play mechanics intensive champs

small wadi
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Keep in mind no one is telling people to play mechanical champions.

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My point is telling people to play the character that looks the coolest, that they had the most fun game on, or maybe they feel a connection to otherwise.

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And not to get bogged down in “I need a specific pick to get me to x elo”

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The pick won’t make you climb, the mastery and motivation will.

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And if simply playing the best champion to climb is the only concern, go to u.gg and refresh the tierlist.

autumn junco
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That is true, but my advice adds on top of that to choose from those champion's the one, that is least mechanically intensive

small wadi
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That’s fair, I agree with that

fathom shale
loud moon
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I'd say just go with champs like kha'zix, xin zhao, and jarvan who can play off of enemy mistakes better and win games for you easier (In my opinion). Overall though, improving your fundamentals and map awareness is the main thing that wins you games. So you can pick pretty much anything, but strong early game champs are probably the way to go so you can win faster and capitalize off of your enemy more than if you were playing a scaling pick.

silent glade
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i absolutly love amumu while smurfing lower elos

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incredibly early dmg, easy to play, incredible teamfight value

vague remnant
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And since I kinda am thinking of going with Kayn to climb, he is also another really good early champ. A lot of people under estimate it

gritty blaze
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From my experience, Master Yi
You could put a toddler on Master Yi and they'll still get a pentakill

robust spear
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send opgg @vague remnant

vague remnant
robust spear
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no ranked games so no real practice
multiple roles = low role mastery

vague remnant
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I have played rank

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Just check last split

robust spear
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I'm looking at past 10 days

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you've played like 1 ranked game in the past 9 days

vague remnant
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Because the split ended

robust spear
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was ranked down?

vague remnant
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Yeah bronze to iron

robust spear
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oh I didn't know that, mb

vague remnant
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I got boosted is the thing

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I am ranked iron in everything but my solo queue put me in bronze

robust spear
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what's the issue?

vague remnant
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I just am not a bronze player, im iron 4 based on my stats

robust spear
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just focus on your skill and things you can improve on

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if you care about mmr winrate and ranked, you'll only make your ranked experience miserable

vague remnant
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I mean it already kinda is

robust spear
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then don't play ranked

vague remnant
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Im 43% in 120 games, its unrecoverable generally

robust spear
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if you want to climb

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stop trying to find the "best" champ
im sure it's been repeated several times already

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watch your vods and look for mistakes

vague remnant
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Yeah but the champs I play are all generally not good, like you will never see a good Poppy or Kayn player for example. They're low tier champs for a reason

robust spear
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according to who?

vague remnant
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Generally most of the player base and most ranked statistics

robust spear
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most of playerbase will disagree with you
but that's still subjective anyways

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so lets look at ranked stats

vague remnant
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Yeah I mean Poppy has generally a 48% wr and kayn a 46-50 based on rank

robust spear
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this is plat+ in 13.13

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it doesn't matter that insert champ does slightly worse in high elo because you aren't high elo
once you get to high elo

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worry about it then, until then. try to get there first

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As long as your champ isn't sub 40 wr, you can get to high elo with it

gaunt tusk
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Or ur doing something so wrong that no champ will fix it

vague remnant
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If you arent in gold after your first placements, it usually is because of that

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Since like 40% of all players are in gold or something and like, a very, very tiny percent is actually in iron

ancient raft
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ill vod review u bro

ancient raft
gaunt tusk
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I dont even have to see ur vod i already know this is true

robust spear
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op has probably never vod reviewed their own game by themself

vague remnant
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They're right btw, coaching is not a thing that has ever worked

loud moon
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Honestly, just play 2 of your favorite champs in the jungle and play to understand your champion and build macro fundamentals. Watch youtube guides on jungling and watch other peoples vods on the champions and try to break down why they are going for certain plays and why they executed it as such. This'll get you thinking about the game in a different light than currently (hopefully) and as long as you play to strive for improvement you should be alright.

ancient raft
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im not gonna tell him what to do throughout the game im gonna teach him how he should be looking at every games

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its important to learn good habits instead of continuing to play how u always do

vague remnant
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I mean I could do it, I've streamed games before for the poppy mains discord when I was learning her a bit

robust spear
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vod review is better then that

ancient raft
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i can watch u play a game, then we can go through it after if u want

gaunt tusk
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Honestly im guessing u cant control the mouse very well, otherwise i cant imagine being stuck iron

robust spear
vague remnant
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I mean sure but I guess whats the best way to share the thing?

gaunt tusk
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Practice getting ur clear done by 3:20, that should teach mechanics in itself

robust spear
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stream it in the public vcs lmfaoo

vague remnant
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Sure I will do that some time soon

ancient raft
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ok ill be on later tn then just dm me when u want to

vague remnant
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In arena rn

robust spear
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coaching in low elo seems like building bad habits but idk

vague remnant
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Clearing is kinda just champ dependant, like kayn can full clear easily, but poppy is just not able to do that, shes better to clear a side into a early gank

ancient raft
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depends on the game

vague remnant
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Yeah that too

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cant gank if they're extremely defensive or too pushed in

gaunt tusk
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Yeah poppy is not the best farmer

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But she still clear in 3:13

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I wouldnt play poppy in iron tho

ancient raft
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dh poppy goes kinda crazy

gaunt tusk
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Cuz if someone on the enemy team gets 30 kills im not sure poppy can beat that

vague remnant
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Thats her only rune set, phase rush just isnt worth it

gaunt tusk
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Id just play yi and get 20 kills a game

vague remnant
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Nah, I'd rather not learn yet another champion at this point

gaunt tusk
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Full clear -> triple kill bot+jg -> repeat

robust spear
vague remnant
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Exactly

robust spear
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so drop most of them lmfao

gaunt tusk
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Who are ur champs

vague remnant
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Poppy, Heca, Kayn, Reksai and I guess Graves somewhat

gaunt tusk
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Heca uber busted in iron

vague remnant
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Not so much now, he got nerfed this patch yet again

gaunt tusk
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I played him after the nerf hes still busted

vague remnant
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Yeah but he has lost a good bit of his surviabily

gaunt tusk
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Doesnt matter especially in iron

vague remnant
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His lowest WR is in iron at that lol

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47% WR

gaunt tusk
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I guarantee you if someone with hands plays hec in iron they will not ever lose

gaunt tusk
robust spear
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it's distracting you from climbing

vague remnant
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I mean sure, they're a little weighted in some way. I have him at like 50% wr on my own games in ranked, but its just not accurate

gaunt tusk
vague remnant
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They lacked a lot of CC, a morgana or lux completely shuts him down

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Also 2 level difference

robust spear
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draft doesn't matter in low elo
counterpicking doesn't exist there

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because of how low of a level everyone is playing

vague remnant
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I attempt to do it really, like if I see a YI I go reksai. If I see Heca I go Poppy, etc

gaunt tusk
robust spear
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You can play ashe into 5 assassins in low elo and still win

robust spear
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also counter picking in jungle barely exists anyway due to the nature of jungle

gaunt tusk
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u end up relying on gimmick counters instead of actually learning the game

robust spear
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soft counters, sure. but hard counters don't exist

gaunt tusk
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also, reksai doesnt counter yi, wtf?

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this is me playing yi in high diamond

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not sure how you think reksai counters yi 🤔 clearly yi destroys reksai

vague remnant
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She didnt even use her CC on you, idk about that

open sage
gaunt tusk
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it says AIRBORNE at the start of the video

robust spear
vague remnant
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Im just saying it works in my games, so idk

robust spear
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look the point is, counterpicking in low elo doesn't matter

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im sure stevvie in low elo can play against Rammus Malphite Malz Lulu all on the enemy team and still be consistently winning

gaunt tusk
vague remnant
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Im gonna try a game of heca, we'll see how it goes on my end, I dont expect much given his state of the game rn

robust spear
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you prob wont win because you dont know how to play him

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you can climb out of iron purely through champ mastery alone

vague remnant
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I have played him quite a bit, hes my 3rd highest played in mastery

gaunt tusk
robust spear
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quanity doesn't equate quality

gaunt tusk
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otherwise you wouldnt be iron in the first place

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no matter how many counters you play against, or how nerfed he is

robust spear
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Your champ otp matters so little that there used to be yuumi top otps in masters

vague remnant
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sadly they threw the game

open sage
# vague remnant sadly they threw the game

I'm going to go out a limb here and say that this happened because you didn't do enough early enough to get ahead and win the game. In Iron, someone that has good fundamentals should be able to 1v9 most of their games.

vague remnant
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dude

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Its the enemy team who threw, double jungle

open sage
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oh, well, free win then

vague remnant
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yall are just so insanely negative

open sage
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I've seen a few cases of teams actually playing double jungle effectively, but it's not something most people know how to do (and I doubt it's objectively good at a high level)

open sage
# vague remnant yall are just so insanely negative

I see way too many people, especially in lower elos that react to a loss with 'they threw the game' referring to their teammates instead of taking ownership of the fact that there was a lot of game played before they got to point where throwing happened during which they could've different and better things to put their team into a winning position.

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I incorrectly assumed you meant your teammates threw the game when you posted that.

vague remnant
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Yeah, but like

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All I have heard in this thread is just that I should quit because im in iron

robust spear
open sage
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Nonsense, the general vibe I get is "get good", which is maybe a slightly hostile way of saying, you have a lot to learn, so study up! XD

robust spear
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i think 90% of this thread said quit playing with a champion ocean

open sage
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What champ you play is not very important until you're at least gold mmr imo

robust spear
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no like masters

open sage
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I've played so much stuff that even I know is bad and still gotten wins on it because I knew what I was doing with it

robust spear
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as long as i live in the world where ap rengar top is in masters, champions dont matter

open sage
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Playing a champion that is weak even in gold is making life harder on yourself by a little bit, it's not a massive problem, but at some point you'll want to move to something that's at least decent (80%+ of the roster is probably still decent atm).

robust spear
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nah closer to 99%

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if the line is at decent

open sage
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Eh, there are champs w/ sub 47% WRs, that's a pretty big delta in enemy favor for one pick to cause

robust spear
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those are mostly because the players who new to that difficult champ

open sage
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No, plenty of those champs aren't even that hard to play

robust spear
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and then the ones who are good will climb out of that elo

open sage
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like the mechanically challenging champs actually tend to have more like 49% WRs or so

robust spear
open sage
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and the idea that champ win rates are a function of how hard to play they are was refuted by an experiment that riot did over the last 1.5 years.

robust spear
vague remnant
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Welp sadly the game looked free but we lost it

robust spear
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Lee Sin seems to be balanced around 49% now tho

open sage
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For plat+ last patch, K'Sante top+mid, Varus mid, Aphelios bot lane, Yuumi support

robust spear
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So I would agree on Yuumi but I think she's more unique case then anything

vague remnant
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Fought a 0/8 eve, but her team was just insanely good compared to me, sadge

open sage
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Aphelios isn't as hard as people think, I've barely played him and yet I do decently on him. Mostly that you just need to spend some time studying gun combos for a bit, that's all. Just some knowledge checks.

robust spear
open sage
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Thing is, most of 'how to Aphelios' is just ADC fundamentals. The only other piece is understanding the gun combos. That will get you easily 90% of the champs potential.

robust spear
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agree to disagre since we already had this conversation before

open sage
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His WR is low rn because he's bad without the right teamcomp (you need a comp that's good at protecting it's backline because Aphelios has 0 mobility, and he's best v. teams that want to come into him (provided he has the protection he needs).

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People think he's just strong in general because of his prevalence in pro play without understand why he played so often by the pros (they often play compositions he's good in)

robust spear
open sage
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plat+ is high elo

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top 16% of playerbase.

robust spear
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this is a thread for iron

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im not in the mood to argue about plat being low elo or not either

open sage
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We can look at which champs have bad WRs in iron

robust spear
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not really since stats in iron doesn't matter

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you can play anything and still climb
you can play with no mouse and climb

open sage
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Surpisingly, there are more champs with sub 47% WRs in low elo

robust spear
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see how little it matters now? lmfao

open sage
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I would've expected the opposite to an extent, but perhaps iron is low enough that not easy champ=gimping yourself

robust spear
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it's also just that average winrate in iron is 45%

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so you need to +5% winrate to every champ

open sage
robust spear
#

No that's literally how you calc winrate per rank

open sage
robust spear
#

why you have to subtract the average winrate of masters+ because masters+ winrate is inflated

#

oh forgot to mention I'm using lolatyics

open sage
#

yea, op.gg lets me look at all champs win rates at every elo, so that's why I used it (I use u.gg for item win rate data if I want to look at best 1st/2nd item etc.)

robust spear
#

generally not a fan of opgg, they use korea data only I think
or like a smaller sample size

open sage
#

No, they use global data now

robust spear
#

cause I've noticed how they are generally missing mils of games

open sage
#

they once upon a time did use only korea, but that's not been true for a few years now

robust spear
#

game data wise it goes lolatyics > u.gg >> opgg >>>> leaue of graphs

open sage
#

u.gg is also good for looking at a champs potential in off-meta roles as you can see data for all 5 roles

robust spear
#

yk lolatyics does all of that right? and even more specific

open sage
#

Each of the data sites are useful for different things.

vague remnant
#

Alright well, I lied once again, we won in the end via a backdoor

#

Sadly it was garbage on my end, I went 18/7

open sage
#

K/D isn't all that important on its own

vague remnant
#

I got 70 LP out of it, so thats alright I guess

open sage
#

useful metrics depend on role to an extent, but:
damage to towers, damage to objectives, damage to champions, damage taken + self-mitigated, gpm, cs/min, vision score, # of deaths are all worth looking at.

#

CC score for tanks as well

vague remnant
#

I guess I have mobanlytics to check if that might display it

open sage
#

post game score and match history have all of the info I referred to

vague remnant
#

I had 6.4 CS, 70% KP, 44K damage, etc

#

Which is better than my team, had a 2.7 CS mid laner

open sage
#

for jungle you definitely want to look at objective control (how well did you do on neutral objectives v. enemy team)

vague remnant
#

We had about 3 FF requests in game btw due to me wanting to open nexus instead of grabing a drake

#

Which I got an inhib and destroyed a tower and had the minions kill the other tower over time

open sage
#

Yea, people overvalue drakes in mid game

vague remnant
#

Nah it wasnt mid game, it was late game

#

35 mins into it was when we were doing it

open sage
#

hmm, then the question is: soul point? if Y, drake is valuable, if Y for enemy, denying it is important

#

if Elder is up, having that should cause you to win next fight and game off of it.

vague remnant
#

Oh yeah exactly, but this was instead just fire drake

open sage
#

ahh, so no soul point=drake is low value (unless enemy at 3/4)

vague remnant
#

It wouldnt even give us progress to elder, as we had 2 drakes and the other team, also had 2 drakes

open sage
#

yea that's a not valuable drake then.

vague remnant
#

Besides that my mid and bot lane never stopped pinging each other the entire game

open sage
#

ahh Iron salt

vague remnant
#

Exactly, but still 2.7 cs vs a 4.5 cs laner, both not good

open sage
#

If you keep getting stats like you were, I expect climbing out of Iron won't be hard (maybe tedious at worst)

vague remnant
#

Only bad is that I didnt buy control wards, early game I was kinda strapped for cash due to not getting early ganks

open sage
#

Definitely try to review your own games (look at deaths and ask: could I have avoided this?)

vague remnant
#

But had no reason to not buy them mid game

open sage
#

yea, control wards imo are easy to misuse and waste money on

ancient raft
vague remnant
#

Yeah I've seen some mid players who spam CWs so much that it generates me a lot more gold

open sage
#

there are basically 2 scenarios where I consider them good: 1: early game to provide vision for a long time (they don't expire and if put in a position that is defensible, should stay uncleared for a long time), 2: on objectives to deny enemy vision.

vague remnant
#

Yeah I only put mine on objs or in enemy jgl

open sage
#

Outside of those cases, it's often to a good use of money

#

in enemy jg will be a net loss outside of derp elo because they will actually clear them reasonably often.

vague remnant
#

Yeah true, I guess besides that I just hope to get a bit more progress, I doubt my 70 LP gains are a constant in iron, Im used to 25+

open sage
#

Oh yea, LP gains will normalize and might even go below losses for a while if your rank outgrows your MMR

#

As long as you win>50% though, you will climb.

vague remnant
#

Yeah I guess so, my highest was like 90 lg back in bronze on win

gaunt tusk
grizzled lance
#

same

gaunt tusk
#

Champ pool, control wards, counters, team comp, are what you have focused on so far, and yet none of those matter at all. You can master all of those and still be iron

vague remnant
#

Yes but point still stands, I am in the 1-2% of iron players, its kinda impossible to improve for them

#

Like I have never heard of anyone escaping iron for this reason alone

#

Since most players start in gold and silver

gaunt tusk
#

not sure what you're saying. you escape iron by improving fundamentals like csing and mechanics

#

not things like draft and champ picks

vague remnant
#

For me its just that I do the same stuff every game but it just ends in a coinflip on who can ace who in this rank

gaunt tusk
#

by fixing your mistakes like farming poorly, you would never feel like the game is coinflip. because you would always win

vague remnant
#

Like thats all I get in iron is constantly pinged if someone in lane dies in a 1v1

#

Since last game I had my top and mid go 1/5 and 1/6 and all I got was pinged the entire time i farmed because I literally had no mythic or anything yet

#

So instead of going 6cs I went 5cs in the end

vague remnant
#

Well I tried Naafiri jg, shes kinda weak but I went 5/0/6 and ended easily

#

I was fight Kha'zix for reference, I thought he was strong? But he just never could 1v1 me

#

I as well made sure to farm and not randomly go near lanes, and got a 6.0CS

late knot
#

Master Yi

vague remnant
#

Yeah Yi is always an option but I just don’t think he’s a fun choice

robust spear
robust spear
#

most hardstuck players gets so caught up on everything but their own gameplay because they lack cognitive flexibility

#

The players who are stuck are always complaining about something whether it's their slow pc, champ pool, teammates, matchmaking, mmr, the list goes on and on. But one thing you always notice is that they either don't blame themself or they think their mistakes are a minor reason for why they are hardstuck

vague remnant
#

Yeah I get it, but honestly the muting of my teammates probably will actually clear up any bad mental I am experiencing while playing. Its always from my team more than from the enemies

robust spear
#

I haven't even looked at your opgg yet but I already know you played 2+ champions

#

when this entire thread kept telling you to make your champ pool smaller

#

like genuinely ask yourself, do you actually care about climbing?

vague remnant
#

I am sorry that I actually like playing other champs

#

I played exactly 2 champions in ranked

#

And climbed a fucking rank, I am now Iron 1 instead of 2

#

I played 1 game as Heca, and 1 game as Naafiri

robust spear
#

go for it then

vague remnant
#

Like what do yall do when someone bans your champ? I bet you 100% dodge the game since you refuse to play another champ

robust spear
#

No I have two mains

#

but if both are banned or I'm autofilled, I would dodge as long as I dont have a dodge timer already

#

no point playing a game where it's guaranteed loss if my goal is to climb

vague remnant
#

You guys sound miserable tbh

robust spear
#

idk being stuck in iron sounds miserable

vague remnant
#

It really isnt, especially since Ive kinda lied about it

#

I havent finished my placements and thats about it. I am just a bronze normally

vague remnant
#

2/3 for placements. I played like how I would normally and my team got annihilated and ff15’d, amazing

#

Basically I just farmed and went into lane when I could go try and get a pick. But my laners went down without a single kill to their name by the end

frozen meadow
vague remnant
#

I am used to getting pinged for the entire game for making a mistake generally

inland rose
frozen meadow
#

You shouldn’t be changing your gameplan because X person pinged you

vague remnant
#

Yeah I guess so. But it’s tough to mute people because they’ll int if they see I defean or whatever else

#

I’ve had it happen too many times already in ranked due to trying that out

inland rose
#

If this is iron then just full clear over and over until an opportunity presents itself of a 2 hp enemy running in the river

frozen meadow
vague remnant
#

I mean sure, you can just farm endlessly, but when your team already has all their first towers broken before 20 mins, it’s hard to catch up

inland rose
#

In challenger when your score is 2-100 you also can't do shit, but that doesn't mean you get those games every time

#

Your team is just as likely to break all first towers pre 20 min

frozen meadow
open sage
vague remnant
#

In this rank people are pretty much allergic to hitting towers it’s just how it is

inland rose
#

Then stop inting as the jungler

open sage
inland rose
#

If enemies do so many mistakes just capitalize on them

open sage
#

One of the easiest ways to win in Iron and even Bronze, is to push lanes and attack towers.

inland rose
#

Simply full clear over and over again, you will be stronger than the 3cspm enemy jungler and carry the game along with free kills

vague remnant
open sage
#

So ignore the other people who don't know what they're doing

#

they're not in charge of your champion, you are

inland rose
frozen meadow
vague remnant
#

I genuinely don’t know why I care so much. I guess it’s just seeing people start running down tower if I kill a cannon or whatever has made me vulnerable to it

inland rose
#

Enemies are as likely to run it down as your teammates

frozen meadow
#

So you’re consciously playing poorly because playing the correct way will make your teammates run under turret?

inland rose
#

The only variable you can change is you, so just play better

frozen meadow
#

But you’re also expecting to climb while playing poorly

#

You see how this makes no sense right?

inland rose
#

You can genuinely win every game in iron

vague remnant
#

Yes but even so, this is a team game.

frozen meadow
inland rose
vague remnant
#

It’s hard when I’m fighting people who’ve played so much more than me. Like last game for example, 300K mastery trundle vs me. I simply lack the game sense he has

open sage
#

Yes, I was about to say, key #1 to winning in LoL: Be efficient with your team. You want to convert time into gold and xp as fast as possible so you can become more powerful as quickly as possible.

inland rose
#

Or you can play easy champions to learn fundamentals and be useful every game despite being terrible like amumu, jarvan, sejuani etc

summer bobcat
#

Literally any of them, it’s Iron.

Learn your fundamentals you’ll get to gold off that alone

frozen meadow
inland rose
open sage
#

mastery points only tells you how much they've played that champion, not how much they've learned for that play.

inland rose
#

There's like a 20m mastery heimer in gold I think

vague remnant
#

I guess you are right it isn’t a true catch all when seeing some with high mastery vs their Lainer

#

But I guess my primary issue as well is that I never really know when to back is another thing. Item spikes are important but I’m always wondering if I should stay around to attempt a kill or something else. And that hinders my clear if a camp is up

open sage
#

Frankly, if I see over 300k mastery at my MMR I assume they main that champ, but aren't actually all that good at the game because they would be at a higher MMR than me w/ that much experience on one champ if they were even close to as good at the game (read: skill not dependent on playing on their main). Overwhelmingly this has proven true in those games too.

frozen meadow
#

The problem is that you’re focusing too much on things that don’t matter at all in the rank you are currently in and letting that cloud your judgement and ruin your gameplay when all you should do is get better at fundamentals since this will make you better than 99.9% of people in your elo, meaning you will climb

open sage
vague remnant
#

I only play jgl. I’m awful with every other lane

open sage
#

Ok, for jungle main reasons to back are:
-I have no camps on the side of jungle I am on
-No gank worth attempting (no high chance of success gank)
-No objective I can reasonably safely take

#

Bonus points if you also have enough gold to actually get an item or component too.

#

Basically if the above are all true, then you have nothing worthwhile to do at that time on that side of the map, so backing and then going to other side of map where there is probably something worthwhile to do is an efficient use of time (not much slower than pathing across map+get to back and buy

vague remnant
#

Yeah, that’s the thing. I can clearly see that. But I just can never truly my laners to not have their jungler around. When I say it sucks that it’s mentally in there. It really sucks. Because I should just be hyper farming when there is no enemy I can kill around

open sage
#

Another reason to back is if you're very low (almost dead).

vague remnant
open sage
#

You are not responsible for how their lane goes, that's on them, your job is to do whatever will get your team ahead the most.

vague remnant
#

Yeah. I get that, but it’s all relating back to the mental game of teammates getting pissy if I’m not constantly ganking for them and all that

#

I should do that, play for my own clear, my jungle and my own ganks. Not based on the laners woes

open sage
#

Once again, don't care what they think/do, your job is to pilot your own champion to maximum impact on the game

#

I've had people be pissy w/ my jungle choices at Gold MMR many times before, that behavior doesn't go away, and in the vast majority of cases, their complaint, while understandable, isn't valid because I did other more important things than gank for them at the timing they wanted me to.

vague remnant
#

Like there is some stuff I do relating to camping a lane. That’s like, Sion/Yorick/Udyr top. Aka hull breaker users. If I see them I’m gonna kill that bitch if I can

#

Hullbreaker champs are generally free wins in low rank with how easy they are

open sage
#

That's mostly because people don't know what answering a split pusher is

#

that is something you can do easily if you are efficient with your time and get strong fast (you will gap them w/ gold/xp lead).

vague remnant
#

Exactly, and nobody split pushes here half of the time.
And kinda related to why I play “fast” champions. They can be in any lane once they have their items

#

And yeah always looking to get a lead is important I see. Like if I can double scuttle, I call that a win in my book

open sage
#

Yes, I take both crabs a lot even at Gold MMR. Not to mention taking free drakes/rift heralds

vague remnant
#

Exactly here too. Dudes just gun for bot or top lane the second they clear

#

Instead of going to river for crab

open sage
#

Another thing, anytime enemy jungle shows on opposite side of map from you, you have free reign on the side you are on to do basically anything, including invading their jungle and stealing all of the camps on that side.

vague remnant
#

Yess, I get that thankfully. I always check around for if their camps are up

#

They’re wasting time poking my garen while I’m killing their raptors or whatever else

#

Also, of clears, can say Naafiri has a scary ass clear time in jungle after her first clears. Her aoes and bleeds are nutty

#

But I guess closing thoughts for the night. I wanna just have some type of review of gameplay done to actually see where I’m lacking in areas. If I don’t know what they are, then how can I improve them and be better at my role?

frozen meadow
#

I can take a look, send me the op.gg and I’ll take a look in about 3 hours

#

I’m a fellow jgl main, at an elo where there’s semblance of human traits, not entirely, but getting there slowly

vague remnant
#

I posted it earlier in the thread, search my name and has:links and should be there

ancient raft
#

yo im free for vod review now if u wnat to do that tn

vague remnant
#

My last game which was the one that kinda got me all bothered over, was 0/2 but even then had a decent cs of 5.7 not the worst thing. Still bad, but still

vague remnant
ancient raft
#

ahh ok, what time zone are you in

vague remnant
#

EST, extremely late on my end lol

ancient raft
#

oh ok same time zone

vague remnant
#

Huh well that’s something then

#

But besides that can say this. franken being actually level headed has made this talk about improvement a lot more, like impactful I guess? Like yeah I feel with enough practice I really can just win iron without issue. Compared to the brutally negative comments earlier today

#

Because wow who would’ve guessed. Being an actual human being in an conversation is actually assuring to the person asking for advice instead of punching down. Actually would lead them improving in time

ancient raft
#

yea u just gotta remember that ur talking to league of legends players

vague remnant
#

Real

open sage
#

I could also do a game review+coaching tomorrow after I am home from work. I can usually give anyone below Gold insight that they can immediately apply subsequent games.

gaunt tusk
#

Can someone review me i was d2 last season and am now plat 3

vague remnant
frozen meadow
ancient raft
#

riot started me in emerald so i just got off

vague remnant
#

I can do Heca’s clear without dropping Q stacks which is a good thing so I’m not super lacking there. But it’s also testing full clearing as poppy and all that. Early ganks are too unreliable sometimes

gaunt tusk
#

My guess is maybe youre obeying bad pings from ur teammates to come gank

#

Which would cause you to lose the game

vague remnant
#

Yeah mainly. Thankfully I feel like muting pings will make this much, much easier to avoid

gaunt tusk
#

Mid and bot also inted

vague remnant
#

Always the top or bot laners who generally leave. It’s odd how common I see it

#

Like a top laner losing 1v1 before I even leave my jungle to get crab is the leading cause in my case lol

#

Which actually makes me think of something to ask. Should you gank a lane with a fed laner in it. Or not touch the lane outside of team fights or whatever else

#

And to instead gank a laner who is either losing or equal to my own laner

frozen meadow
gaunt tusk
#

Generally you gank when you can get a kill. And thats a lot easier to do if your laner is already winning.

vague remnant
#

True, and well especially so if they can actually assist killing them lol

#

Other thing I was told to do, and generally keep in mind. If my laner dies, no teleport and all that. I’m generally recommended to kill their wave since it’ll just be lost to tower or whatever other wise

#

Is this accurate or whatever for what I should do in this scenario

gaunt tusk
#

Its a viable option. Sometimes i do, but id say half the time i dont because i was on my way to gank a different lane and i feel like showing to a lane first will ruin the element of surprise

vague remnant
#

True. It ruins surprise in exchange for gold and to possibly deny the enemy gold by pushing into their tower

#

But I guess other thing I had thoughts on is this. Imagine I have full cleared and got scuttle and there is no way to get a ganked kill. But just wanna go and reclear my Krugs who should be respawning around then. Should I walk all the way there or just recall

inland rose
gaunt tusk
inland rose
#

Cause if your laner gets a bad death and the enemy gets 3 plates then it's gg for the laner

#

However, if you can defend the plates your laner will still have a chance

inland rose
vague remnant
#

Yeah I get that. One of the reasons for killing minions as jg is to not have tower damage done as well.

inland rose
#

Walking is slower and you will have 0 items if you do that

vague remnant
#

Yeah, and I guess for example, heca can buy his full boots on first recall or normal boots and tear generally

inland rose
#

So the laner either dies cause they need help pushing or they fall so far behind because the enemy gets plates

vague remnant
#

Yeah true or they cold war and neither of them get a plate and it’s just awkward

inland rose
#

Wdym

vague remnant
#

As in both laners are very defensive. 0/0 type players for their landing phase

inland rose
#

Then just don't gank

vague remnant
#

Yeah, I wouldn’t. I’m just mentioning it given the talk of plates. More weird if neither takes a plate from each other

inland rose
#

That's your average tank lane

vague remnant
#

But I have seen it happen, two mages without enough damage to actually kill each other

#

And true, tank laning be like that

inland rose
#

Well a 50/50 lane state is good for you

#

Assuming you're better than the enemy jgl

vague remnant
#

Yeah it’s good. Neither have advantage to be better than the other for the early to mid game

#

But enough of that. We are junglers here, not laners

#

Other thing is like, from how I think about it. Heralds have better priority over drake in my case. Like being able to possibly break a tower early is bigger than the first soul imo

#

But to not let them have the 2nd soul onwards if possible

inland rose
#

Herald is good if you're a snowballing jungler

#

Imo a herald pre 14 is better than drake, especially if you can take a tower with it or get solo gold

#

However if you're playing a champion that doesn't need gold getting drake is worth

vague remnant
#

Yeah, and well, better than letting plates go unclaimed tbh

inland rose
#

You need to understand how to use herald tho

vague remnant
#

Yeah, can’t pop it without a plan

inland rose
#

Sharing 1 plate sucks

vague remnant
#

Yeah I usually use it solo. Like if the enemy laner is just straight up missing or like somewhere else. I’ll pop the eye and make them run back to their lane

#

Bonus points for poppy is that she can R people under tower to make Herald stay around for longer if it seems worth

#

And equally she can do the same to an enemy Herald to delay it by launching it

inland rose
#

Just don't rush herald

#

You have like 3 minutes to use it and plates only fall at 14

#

And since this is iron you will find good herald opportunities every game

#

Btw, what champions do you play?

vague remnant
#

It’s complicated but I’ll tell you my top 3 on mastery

#

It’s Poppy with like almost 90K, then Kayn, then Hecarim

inland rose
#

Which ones do you play rn

#

Are you good on all of them?

vague remnant
#

Mostly just heca and reksai in last split by the end. Since they’re a bit more borked in strength.

Honestly I can’t say im amazing on Kayn and I get a little too confident on Heca

#

Poppy is my most know. Like I know my limits on her generally

#

Like she is good early game. And once she gets DS, she can fight people without question

#

A lot of people under estimate Poppy’s damage output since she’s a tank champ. But sheen and max hp% scaling go a long way for damage output

inland rose
#

Just find a jungler that you're confident on and play them

#

Confident as in above 50% wr

vague remnant
#

I am good with her, but in ranked she doesn’t hold up nearly as well on my end

inland rose
#

How so

vague remnant
#

I have her with like 150+ matches in normal with 51-52% win rate. But I have a like 35-40% win rate last split with her

#

For ranked

inland rose
#

Watch some jungle guides

vague remnant
#

Yeah I have seen some but even so it’s just a tough one to do even with knowing her tech

#

Like I only recently got one down completely after some time. That being making her E + Flash work. It’s a completely unreachable ability, so it’s strong if used properly

#

But I guess asking the poppy discord for more definitive stuff shows me I have been clearing a bit wrong. Poppy starts red side but doesn’t take Krugs, instead doing Red/Raptors/Wolves/Blue/Gromp

#

You only take Krugs early game as poppy if you can gank after your scuttle

frozen meadow
#

This can vary btw there is no set pathing to pathing, it depends on what you want to do unlike tft where you follow the recipe from start to finish

#

I’ve never heard the never take krugs part for example because this varies a lot on if you want to 4 camp, 5 camp or full clear which is a choice you as the player make. I played poppy in high dia soloQ s11 or 12 I think and had never heard of this clearing thing before

#

Also where you start is also a choice you make as the jungler, if the lane you are pathing to because you always started red is ungankable, you are now in a tough spot. If say your botlane has a lot of lockdown potential you’d rather path towards them than away from them, likewise for top

gaunt tusk
#

This is how melee champions "kite"

#

Cuz ur autos are pretty worthless so often youd rather just run away while waiting for cds to make the enemy carries overextend, or save some hp

vague remnant
#

Well kinda, but poppy kinda has to use her autos to get her damage in. Sheen champion and all that. All her other items are armor generally

#

Thankfully she had Buckler passive so she has a ranged attack with scaling

gaunt tusk
#

Yeah exactly as poppy id default to using EQ auto grab ur shield, W away

#

That said ive played poppy maybe once in my life

#

I recall last time i played poppy, i started botside, while i was doing gromp after my blue, i saw that my top laner was slow pushing the wave, so i decided to tower dive after my third camp

#

I did blue gromp red -> dive top under tower

#

Their top didnt have tp and he was giga fucked after that. I typed "gg jungle diff" in all chat and the game was already won

#

This was a few seasons ago when top lane mattered more than bot lane tho

#

This season bot lane matters more so u wouldnt win the game off that

vague remnant
#

Can say that Poppy has the strongest dive options for that tbh. Flash E cannot fail and if worse comes to it, you can R someone out of their tower and kill them when they land. But that takes a lot of skill to pull off

frail lodge
#

Hecarim, Yi, WW, Olaf, Mord

gaunt tusk
split yew
split yew
#

Use this to help you with clearing paths

robust spear
split yew
#

ight thx

glass totem
long parcel
#

jungle timers in iron

glass totem
#

I mean more as general things to learn that he definitely doesn't know

open sage
vague remnant
amber saffron
#

Xin, Volibear, Hecarim