nerf ghost for ranged

[distant vessel]

title.

literally any adc worth their salt are taking ghost and you can never catch them

[tacit latch]

stop posting these salt posts about adcs, jesus christ you top laners are the whinest bunch

[agile cobalt]

Kinda agreed

[echo sparrow]

yea but its the only way adcs can get away otherwise they just pop

[distant vessel]

[steep ermine]

pls no, dont make me rely on my silver teammates to peel

[sour gorge]

buff it on melee in stead!

and give Darius another passive where if he's chasing an ADC he gets perma ghost

[floral oracle]

One CC and any ADC is straight up dead
I actually enjoy the ghost meta over the heal meta NGL

[proper crest]

jax has that buff, buf for other hcamps

[sour gorge]

💀

[low scaffold]

Ima be honest here, adc players whine a lot before the adc item buffs due to bruisers and tanks :^)

[distant vessel]

the jhin should not be out running the hecarim lets be honest here

marksman need to rely on positoning not just being in a bad position but can run at the speed of sound

[low scaffold]

If ur team camt burst a jhin down with hecarim e and r then idk what ur doing

[tacit latch]

i wanna see any of you fuckers play adc as your main role and then come back and complain about this

positioning isent solely an adc thing, every fucking role needs good positioning.

but somehow adc is the only role that needs good postioning and shouldent be given any other tools to escape or kite

all you fuckers are sitting here being like "I should be able to one rotation a jhin with a hecarim e and r"

and you can one rotation an adc with that combo and you're still not satisfied cus someone out played you with ghost kiting you

so now you come here and make this salt post about adc being too strong and we should nerf ghost ignoring the fact that ghost isent going to save an adc when he mispositions 90% of the time

and get this shit about adcs whinning a lot before the buffs out of here, those buffs were needed. There were plenty of examples of why they were needed you just needed to look at the game

im so sick and tired of these adc salt posts cus you guys should be on your knees thanking the adcs who are good and put up with the shit they have to deal with from their own teammates

[modern perch]

i mean i dont disagree with you
but at the same time its like i didnt see the need to turn rageblade and IE into mythics and shieldbow kraken into legendaries

and ADC is a very coin flip lane and as a jungler i dont like being forced to gank bot as id rather have my mid or top do something rather than my ADC

[floral oracle]

Bot meta is a bit annoying but ghost isn't the issue
Ghost is simply more fun on ADCs than Heal imo

Topside of the map also just becomes basically useless beyond first herald unless your toplaner is of value when fed to my understanding at least

[timid osprey]

AMEN

why is it that every single time I come to #953796890095411281 there's always a new thread by a top laner complaining about something

[floral oracle]

Let's be real the toplaner is probably typing during the game bcs they've got nothing to do on lane

[distant vessel]

howdoesheknow

[distant vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/controlling-laugh-laughing-oh-god-thats-funny-funny-thats-hilarious-gif-26533352

I CANT STOP LAUGHING KEEP GOING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iOzHoxsor4&ab_channel=Idkclownstuff

[west wigeon]

Solution: Kill Them

[amber monolith]

Yeah man why you don't just kill or CC the flash/ghost Vayne with Milio behind are you guys trolling ?

[agile cobalt]

yea just kill her, who cares if she oneshots you and moves so much you cannot even land point and clicks and even if you do has healing and shielding equal to 25% health warwick with viseage and revitalize tanks to milio

[amber monolith]

she just have a dash and fast invisibility every sec, 800 move speed and 800 range

why don't you kill her with your 125 range toplaner

[fiery knoll]

So are we complaining about ghost on ranged champs or just vayne now lmao

[agile cobalt]

z e r i

[fiery knoll]

YESSS

Screw zeri and that damned cat

[agile cobalt]

well zeri no longer gains MS while shielded

[fiery knoll]

Sheen doesn’t work with her anymore either

[agile cobalt]

yea Q proccing and consuming sheen was OP

[fiery knoll]

But it’s zeri, she’ll find some other item to break eventually.

[proper crest]

Prob gonna go back to being a pro play only champ or a 6 item only champ and not 3 with trinity

[amber monolith]

i can legit do that for atleast half of the adc roaster

[steep ermine]

ew pls no, these champs dont need more mobility than they already have

[steep ermine]

:(

[proper crest]

who are "these champs"

[steep ermine]

any champ with any movement ability that i cant outrun w/ my slow + ghost + av

which is a surprising number, from my experience

[proper crest]

champs with movement most likely arent going ghost, cuz they have movement abilities

[steep ermine]

hmm, urite. i still dont like the idea of giving a champ designed specifically for a lack of movement to be given a buffed movement ability.
that is very bad juju for a poor adc player like me

[tacit latch]

right how about instead of complaning about adc you play the game

[tacit latch]

you have never played adc then my guy

like i get it

you top laners don't have any empathy.
Its all me me me, we should all just go back to missing everything on a champion like zed and autoing an adc to death

you guys dont know how frustrating it is to play a champion who is a glass cannon and a target on your back,

like it is frustrating to play against a hyper mobile adc for sure, but there is counterplay in the game and you guys just cant seem to grasp it

[sour gorge]

B-but I don’t want to be kited, that’s not fair!

[buoyant wadi]

My brother in christ , everyone complain about how broken ad role is besides ad players, every season is legit path toward bot and camp bot but somehow , ad players gaslight themselves saying " role is dogshit , 2 item zed one tap me" while nowadays adcs have 300 tools to kite the shit out of all champions

[golden helm]

Amen brother

ADC is weak, the full item assassin was able to assassinate me reeeeeee

[agile cobalt]

"oh no adc s are weak cuz fed assassins (their class is meant to kill squishies) can kill them!"

[golden helm]

REAL

[agile cobalt]

"see assassins dont deserve prowlers dash or duskblade invis but ADC s deserve galeforce dash which deals a ton of damage"

[golden helm]

The champion whose role is made for killing squishies is in fact killing squishies, buff adc asap

[agile cobalt]

see adc s can now assassinate assassins its super fine now

buff mages instead 👀

[mossy ridge]

i dont like ghost but i dont think it needs a nerf. adc is the hardest role imo and you have to position well. if you dont you will die. having ghost on adcs is fine as if you hit one bit of cc they will die which kinda balances it.

[golden helm]

Adcs deleting the 6K hp tanks due to funny items, all normal, nothing to see here

[agile cobalt]

"hardest role"

you think there is anyone besides hypertanks who isnt destroyed by cc

[golden helm]

Funnily enough if an assassin gets cced in front of an adc, the assassin goes kaput

[agile cobalt]

or you think a class who can deal a ton of sustained damage deserves survivability?

[golden helm]

So yes, champions with low hp pool do in fact die if they get cced. This is not an adc role only thing

[agile cobalt]

yea and not all of them can deal great amount of damage which they can keep up for long durations just by right clicking

[proper crest]

Speaking of duskblade, is the item better than youmuu after nerf for most assassins?

[agile cobalt]

some use it

but dude pyke needs some real mythic

[mossy ridge]

most assassins i see use it now

[proper crest]

Same

[golden helm]

Depends if you need it or not, different uses for different scenarios

[mossy ridge]

^

[proper crest]

Idk if it’s the invis, or the execute dmg that it gives

[agile cobalt]

he could do waterfall dance (copy of waterfowl dance), ulti invis ulti invis ulti invis
nowhe isdoomed

[willow peak]

There’s a target on your back for a reason, if adcs were ever useless, they wouldn’t be focused. Every role has equally frustrating aspects

[echo sparrow]

.... actually thats kinda why i run them down ; - ; find adcs are typically just free gold that can flash

[amber monolith]

I play adc a lot but sure

and if you can't have a decent enough positioning and always get caugh by a Zed for sure it's not because adc role is weak but because you are bad

[floral oracle]

I'll be honest, I don't think Ghost on ADCs is the problem

ADC is mostly considered the easiest role just btw (this is not to say it is easy), but Heal is actually way more boring of an ADC summoner spell than ghost is.

Botlane has such prio not only because of the strengths of ADCs, but also because of objectives on each side of the map

If one were to nerfc ADCs, Ghost shouldn't be the thing to nerf

As for Assassins. . . The counterplay lies in information and positioning
Zed is probably the last assassin to complain about, because he actually has to put in work to kill you

Rengar is the most questionable assassin and pretty much has been any time he's good, because no matter how good he does there will be a time he literally oneshots squishes with 0 effort

But then if you have something to counter it on your team (and you should), you don't get oneshot either (Poppy Gaming)

[polar fox]

Yea, we cannot build items and runes just for right clicking the entire enemy team to death + having a support who have not been this overloaded for years, my bad G.

[steep ermine]

but i dont want to get oneshot the moment i come into range of you >:(

biggest brain solution is to implement turn rate, make the map bigger, change items and champions, call them heroes, use trees instead of bushes, and call the game dota 2

[sour gorge]

prowlers base kit for all melees

[tulip aspen]

yall really whining about ADCs being weak or tanks being weak? How about we talk about mages being weak since the new item update? I mean, ADCs and bruisers shouldnt have to do hybrid damage, not sure why we keep giving ADs AP ratios, just forces the enemy team to buy MR, which hurts any AP champ in a full AD team. Half of the AD items for ADCs deal magic damage to "help" rageblade, when in fact, the role is called Attack Damage Carry, not Hybrid Damage Carry. I vote on reversing giving AP to AD champs and AD items and going back to making each champ deal one type of damage, that way mages aren't affected by a vayne dealing 1/3 AD, 1/3 AP, 1/3 true and it just goes back to 1/2 AD 1/2 true.

[steep ermine]

fr no idea what rito was smoking when they thought this was a good idea

[amber monolith]

well they are for sure overpowered but clearly not easy

and nobody consider them as the easiest role

[floral oracle]

I hear plenty of people say it's the easiest role

I do think it is primarily because of how much support you get
In an ideal world, both the jungler and support practically sit on you most of the game and make sure you're fed like a pig for slaughter

One could argue support is easier but I think playing support well is harder at the end of the day

Any champion relying primarily on auto attacks for damage is easier generally speaking, too (e.g. Master Yi is easier than say ... lee Sin)

But that's a whole other discussion. The differences in difficulty are small between roles and champions tend to overshadow that, too

I think one problem we have at the moment is ADC durability

A good and fed ADC will outsistain a fair bit of damage
Up until this patch Zeri could build Triforxe and bruiser items and be much harder to kill

I think Kindred is OP at the moment for similar reasons actually

Ghost isn't the issue
Ghost is fun to play with and should stay

Also I'd love to see a rework to (2nd) Herald

[wraith perch]

God no

Darius is already as fast as a speeding train

[sand lance]

buff top B)

[sour gorge]

(You know I am joking right?)

[spiral ermine]

Ghost across the board needs nerfed. melee/ranged dont matter.

[modern perch]

Ghost itself doesn't need nerfs and isn't a problem
Like someone mentioned earlier it's durability that's the issue

[golden helm]

Ghost overall needs a nerf, summ shouldn’t give you as much power as it does for a pontential 1 minute

[distant vessel]

https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1670040236003319808?t=Y7a5AV897DkI5zWlJ3cuyg&s=1

Spideraxe (@Spideraxe30)

Ghost nerf:

• Cooldown increased from 210 seconds to 240

Likes

271

Twitter · Jun 17, 2023, 12:06 PM

well you both got what you wanted but i sure didn't-

[simple shoal]

bruh

uk the way to nerf ghost on adc is to unironcally remove all the random movementspeed items on adc

[vast lagoon]

we found the adc main

[agile cobalt]

storm fucking razor

zeal items
galeforce

[steep ermine]

yes, please keep complaining about sr and zeal

dw about the bork sitting in the background kekw

actually though pls, i cant function without my bork

[tacit latch]

ah yes zeal items are broken

now i vote we nerf deadmans plate and fon for their ms

[simple shoal]

galeforce casually giving 9% movespeed

[tacit latch]

playing adc just reminds me of how bullshit this claim is

[remote mirage]

heal sucks
exausht sucks
barrier sucks
cleanse is situacional

"lets nerf the only sum that adcs can actually use cuz i suck at gapclosing"

[remote mirage]

Bro, they literally made the durability patch so you all fukin Lethality abusers have to actually play the game rather than bust your Q+R keys

[sage frigate]

is this.. the tears of an adc player i smell

[tacit latch]

nah you are smoking some heavy crackk

this guy is right, they made the durability patch for a reason

[sage frigate]

me when the assassin (the class that counters adc) counters adc

[tacit latch]

i said it before, and ill say it again you top laners are so delusional in ur own little world

just because you cant one shot an adc while missing all of your abilities

doesnt mean adc is too strong

and i dont even main adc

[simple shoal]

durabillity patch was literally tailored for adc not getting 1 shot as fast to assassins

[tacit latch]

before you come at me with this “the tears of an adc player”

[simple shoal]

it literally benefit squshies the hardest

[tacit latch]

yeah thats what i said no?

[simple shoal]

yeah it benefit top the least

[tacit latch]

they made durability patch for a reason, adcs were getting one tapped for no reason at all

[simple shoal]

or actually just nerf top lane in general

[tacit latch]

okay so? it was a deserved nerf

it was needed for a reason

[simple shoal]

not really adc sorta get "compesation buffs" each patch because it simply dosent feel good to play

getting 1 shot isnt enjoyable but the class is far from the worse class

[tacit latch]

okay

but if a class isent fun to play and they try to fix it

whats the issue? I used to like playing adc

but the role is soul crushing and unfun when you try to climb

[simple shoal]

the design flaw is that adc players dont want a innate weakness

[tacit latch]

what the fuck r u smoking?

[simple shoal]

assassins are literally designed to one shot you if your an adc

[tacit latch]

adcs have one glaring weakness

[simple shoal]

they are squishy as shit

[tacit latch]

and its that they have low health pools and low resistances

[simple shoal]

yes but riot slowly but surely buffs power creep them

damage creep for adc is relatively fine but giving them more defense and mobility options is absolute cancer

[tacit latch]

but when an assassin is allowed to one shot an adc while missing all of his abilities while being 1/5

it becomes an issue that needs to be addressed

[simple shoal]

likewise a vayne is allowed to pelt a bruiser with 10 autos

[tacit latch]

and guess what durability patch was for

[simple shoal]

despite having 0 kills

[tacit latch]

you see, the problem with that situation is that

[simple shoal]

also u would simply nerf assassin damage not adc resistance

buff*

[tacit latch]

1 vayne has a horrible early game which you can abuse, 2 farm is an important factor, and 3 you ignored how riot acknowledged that true damage can be annoying and changed her scalings

[simple shoal]

vayne does not have horrible early game

[tacit latch]

please explain

[simple shoal]

vayne has horrible early game as compared to other adcs

[tacit latch]

wow real smart

[simple shoal]

every adc has oppressive early game

thats kinda why lucian mid and tristana mid were painful to face when they were meta

thats why every top laner hates ranged top

[tacit latch]

thats just a skill issue

[simple shoal]

when u put vayne compared to like a caitlyn ofc she looks weak but vayne into any melee champ she beats

[tacit latch]

i hate to break it to you, but thats just a skill issue plain and simple

[simple shoal]

and no range top innately beat melee top until either he misplays so hard or the bruiser can pull off somr circus stuff

[tacit latch]

you just explained to me why vayne has a weak lanning phase

[simple shoal]

thats not a skill issue thats by design of ranged top

thats how the dynamic of range vs melee works in top lane

thats the dynamic of range vs melee in any game

[tacit latch]

you hurt my brain, yes ranged top does bully melee top early game, but they suck balls after

[simple shoal]

they only suck balls if they dont manage to get a snowball

[tacit latch]

literally just a skill issue on your part

[simple shoal]

if they go even or they lose lane u autolose as ranged top but if you get a snowball u pretty much run down the other player

but the odds of u losing or going even are significantly lower than you winning because by design you are playing a style that beats players by default until you make a big mistake or the enemy does weird circus stuff

[tacit latch]

wow please explain to me how vayne has a strong early game again while in context of the role she is most played in

ur just complaining about how ur just bad

[simple shoal]

significantly better player than you though

[tacit latch]

lmfao okay bro

im not the one sitting here arguing about how vayne top has a strong early game but pop off king

[simple shoal]

i mean kinda explained to you how she does have a strong early game

why people despise it so much

[tacit latch]

what kind of mental gymnastics did u go through

vayne is a FUCKING ADC YOU DUMB TOP LANER

[simple shoal]

i mean same argument as yasuo or mages in the bot lane or bruisers in the mid lane

like nobody in mid lane ever wants to fight irelia

[flint ferry]

why are you crying because you can't win vs ranged top

[simple shoal]

i dint say i cant i just said its painful

[flint ferry]

thats why you don't fight them no?

[simple shoal]

im a aatrox main by default my champ butt fks ranged top

[flint ferry]

obviously its ranged vs melee so ur going to lose exp/gold until they do a mistake and when you get a gank or two enemy top is the most useless champ in the game

[simple shoal]

ok but what if you get ganked

[tacit latch]

no? i mean sure if ur countered then good luck, but irellia isent that much of a scary champ in lane

[flint ferry]

you won't get ganked under your own tower unless you allowed them to poke so much

and ofcourse they are scary if they snwoball they are also scary if they snowball in adc because the name says attack damage carry

[simple shoal]

depends on wave size and enemy jgler champ usually

turrent dives are easy if u have those 2 in control

[flint ferry]

not even zac or elise would dive a full hp aatrox with vayne

[simple shoal]

depends on wave size because its plausible

actually its likely for elise case but was thinking like nidalee if played well

[tacit latch]

hey, have you ever heard of thinning a wave?

[simple shoal]

oh boy

[flint ferry]

you remember the lucian mid meta?

[simple shoal]

u can only influence a wave if either the enemy is missing, you can literally kill the enemy if they do anything

[flint ferry]

its similar to that you lose exp and gold for 6 levels and then hes useless

[simple shoal]

pm thats it

[tacit latch]

you can q the wave no?

[simple shoal]

top lane and mid lane function differently when it comes to wave mangement

top lane and bot lane have similar wave functions mid lane is pretty different from those 2

[sage frigate]

oh we TOP laners got the most love?

[tacit latch]

actually just dont argue with this guy, he is so delusional that he thinks that vayne has a good early game

[sage frigate]

why is every patches now only for bot laners

[simple shoal]

only top laner u going debate with who isnt just going insult u

[flint ferry]

to be honest if your jungler ignores you and camps bot while enemy camps top they will lose the game no matter vaynes score

[simple shoal]

if u rather have someone call u braindamage for thinking vayne is not strong earlygame be my guess

[tacit latch]

im sorry remind me in what lane vayne is played in?

[simple shoal]

yes and no

[sage frigate]

if a vayne gets to lv 11 or 16 prepare to meet ur maker if u dont cc her

[flint ferry]

vayne needs like an enchanter to even be something alone and can be matched by another fed adc

[simple shoal]

as a top laner your function is to soak up pressure if your jungler applies pressure outside your lane thats great but at the same time your other goal is to deal with your own top laner

[sage frigate]

or she can get the invis on 2 s cd

[simple shoal]

if the enemy top laner is yorick its expected that your own top laner deals with him

because he may be too much of a burden for your team to handle

[tacit latch]

@simple shoal

[simple shoal]

likewise if the enemy top is ranged top u definitely cannot deal with her and she becomes a burden for your team

[flint ferry]

well if its a ranged top your jungler should definitely gank you one or two times i don't disagree otherwise they can't really blame you for being super behind

[simple shoal]

she may be less of a burden as compared to a yorick sitting top but u cant properly do one of your 2 main functions

[sage frigate]

ranged top is all about just denying ur everything that a top laner wants to do

for example

[flint ferry]

it doesn't matter if she has 20 kills if she doesn't have a team because its an adc

it needs peel and support

[sage frigate]

brother if u dont have point and click cc an adc just obliterates

[simple shoal]

ranged top functions has two differing styles as oppose to melee tops who have functions that compliment eachother

[flint ferry]

rengar:

[simple shoal]

ranged top can either be played like a tradional adc and teamfight or they can be a splitpusher

[sage frigate]

hes broken rn why do u compare that??

adcs when the counterclass (assassins) counters them

[simple shoal]

because the requirement of splitpushing or the goal is to either win 1v1 or have more than 1 person come after you

ranged top can be able to do that if the enemy top laner dosent have a solid answer into them

[sage frigate]

^

so basically top lane is just counterpicking and gg thats been like 2 patches now btw.

[tacit latch]

i havent heard someone complain this much about vayne top since hashinshin

[simple shoal]

7 years

[sage frigate]

oh?

[simple shoal]

i can complain about pm anything about this game literally can debate why adc needs buffs

[flint ferry]

theres not really a game without assassins and if there is you deserve to win but like even a control mage easily fucks you up like syndra malzahar etc the only viable win is against full tank team comp

[simple shoal]

u just see me debate top the most because no one likes defending this role and can debate with alot of ppl

[flint ferry]

nobody defends this role because its effectively useless

thats what naayil thinks aswell the challenger aatrox main

[simple shoal]

it functions similarly to tank class in overwatch

[flint ferry]

tanks are just toxic to the game

[simple shoal]

u just absorb and exert pressure

[tacit latch]

no one defends this role because you have clinically insane players as your reps, ie tfblade hashinshin etc

[flint ferry]

and deal a lot of damage

[simple shoal]

top diff usually only happens from unplayable counterpick matchups or if one of the top laners is a complete moron

[sage frigate]

you would be insane as well if u play that much jax

[simple shoal]

only the former happens alot in higher elo

[sage frigate]

here a tank in league doesnt do what a normal tank do in mmorpg

[flint ferry]

it doest both

[sage frigate]

u cant just draw aggro from players to tank dmg

[simple shoal]

u dont deal alot of damage damagw is just a biproduct of pressure

[tacit latch]

you would not be saying this about adc if you had to soloq adc

[sage frigate]

that is why tanks need to some dmg to contest or else they just get ignored every fight

but please nerf maokai malphite ornn then itll be fine thanks

[tacit latch]

you guys are talking like this about a role where you dont understand what they do and what their weaknesses are

[simple shoal]

there was a funny off meta playstyle back in the day called 0 damage tryndamere

[flint ferry]

mundo, ornn, cho, malphite, sion, kench, voli laughing in the corner

[simple shoal]

it was unironcally playable because of how it exerted pressure

[flint ferry]

even shen

[simple shoal]

im ngl u kinda listed the most mild top laners who dont do alot of danate

[tacit latch]

i dont want to be that guy, but mundo is technically a juggurnaut

[sage frigate]

excuse me mundo ornn malphite sion and kench dont do dmg??

[flint ferry]

wasn't intended to be

[tacit latch]

wdym

[simple shoal]

not really they just have alot of defense so u can never kill them

[flint ferry]

was mundo intended to be a juggernaut or a tank

[tacit latch]

a juggernaut?

[simple shoal]

tanks never did alot of damage its just u either kill them fast or u cant kill them

[flint ferry]

i don't really want to talk with you anymore

[sage frigate]

bro ur delusional as well

[tacit latch]

they would have given him cc if he was meant to be a tank

[flint ferry]

thats just delusional and you disagreed with 90% of the challenger playerbase

[simple shoal]

i think the closest was sunfire and demonic meta

[sage frigate]

ah yes diamond masters elo and my support just picked jarvan flash smite

[flint ferry]

heartsteel:

[simple shoal]

its pm if a tank does too much damage its likely cause u cant kill them

[flint ferry]

ornn gaining damage from building armor/mr:

[simple shoal]

heartsteel was never good

[sage frigate]

heartsteel was never godo but its good on a scaling pick

[tacit latch]

mundo

[flint ferry]

go play ornn and send me the replay to see if you do damage or not

[simple shoal]

building heartsteel is like forfeiting top lane

[flint ferry]

like in lane play aggressive

[sage frigate]

brother u deal 66% max hp dmg with a combo

[simple shoal]

ornn is too tanky thats kinda why he just does alot of damage

[flint ferry]

ur literally living in a utopia where tanks are balanced

[sage frigate]

HE DEALS MAX HP DMG AKA FLAT 16% HP

[simple shoal]

i never said that

[flint ferry]

someone who is too tanky is never supposed to deal any damage because thats toxic to the game

[simple shoal]

i just said that tanks dont deal as much danage as people portray them to do

[flint ferry]

but they do

[sage frigate]

i explained just now u cant draw aggro as a tank so they need to have some dmg or else they get ignored every game (but nerf malphite ornn because their ult makes u use a flash or some sort)

[simple shoal]

no they dont u just dont deal enough danage because they are too tanky

[flint ferry]

you can literally walk in to backline with ornn ignoring you being a tank and kill their adc alone

with one combo

[simple shoal]

yeah but the time it takes for a tank to kill a adc as compared to anyone else besides a support

[sage frigate]

ACTIVE: Ornn marches forward 90 units in the target direction over 0.75 seconds, gaining Unstoppable icon displacement immunity and becoming Lockout icon 2 unable to act for the duration.

Over the march he belches fire over a cone in front of him, dealing magic damage every 0.15 seconds to enemies hit. The final gout of flame will apply Brittle icon Brittle for 3 seconds.

TOTAL MAGIC DAMAGE:»
12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16% of target's maximum health
Bellows Breath has a minimum damage threshold, which is also the damage dealt to Minion icon minions. Monster icon Monsters take modified damage as well.

TOTAL MINIMUM/MINION DAMAGE:»
80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280
TOTAL MONSTER DAMAGE:»
155 / 180 / 205 / 230 / 255

[simple shoal]

tanks are the slowest and most telegraphic and least hard hitting

they are as compareable to juggernauts but juggernauts have absurdly high ad values and ratios

[timid osprey]

@simple shoal Ranged top laners like Vayne kind of dogshit top lane, sure they will win in isolation but if your jungler is human, ranged tops gets fucked hard,

[simple shoal]

thats kinda the issue you need your jungler to help you

top lane is designed in a way where u want your jungler to NOT help yiy

[flint ferry]

he said if ur jungler is human which most of the games he is

[simple shoal]

junglers ganking top is a lose lose situation

[flint ferry]

not when its vayne top

[timid osprey]

Also warden mail and bramble vest basically makes playing adcs top miserable

like nerf warden mail lmfao

[simple shoal]

bot lane is always better than top lane for gank justifications

[flint ferry]

fr

[simple shoal]

u get more out of a better bot than a better top

[flint ferry]

im saying if its vayne top you are supposed to gank once or twice to allow your top to breathe

[simple shoal]

top lane culture is your top should be self sufficient so you can put your attention somewhere else around the map

[timid osprey]

sure but killing an overextended Vayne to snowball top lane is worth, no?
Since Vayne gets so fucked if behind

[flint ferry]

yes but this case is only for ranged top

[simple shoal]

tradeoff you kill the fed vayne but the enemy jungler ganked bot and got the dragon off that

[flint ferry]

he plays aatrox too, literally getting one kill ends her lane

[simple shoal]

that is a tradeoff that no jungler wants to take

[timid osprey]

Then after you get snowball top, you can focus on mid/bot now
since top is self sustaining

[flint ferry]

thats not really true plus early game drake doesn't matter

[simple shoal]

it certainly does

[flint ferry]

you can take herald and invade his top side and youll be ahead of the enemy jungler then you can continue ganking bot

[flint ferry]

the first drake never really matters

[timid osprey]

also doubt you have to put 100% of ganks into bot to win games
it's just situationally dependant

[simple shoal]

hearld best case scenario take 2 towers but average its 3 plates

[simple shoal]

i generally put most of my earlygame ganks into bot lane

[timid osprey]

good job

[flint ferry]

3 plates is worth way more than 5% ad/ap

[simple shoal]

when im jungle usually my only threat is the only bot lane

[timid osprey]

just watch any high elo replays and count how often challenger junglers gank every lane
and then come back to me

[simple shoal]

and sometimes enemy jg if i dont nodif them

[timid osprey]

like i dont understand this sentiment of only gank bot

[flint ferry]

its adc meta so you do gank bot lane more than others but you don't just only gank bot

[simple shoal]

u can gank mid as well

ganking bot just generally rewards more than top and u can do it in mind where anyone getting the kill is goid trade

[timid osprey]

like I will agree if you are saying bot is a strong role right now, but saying that ganking top is almost always useless is not a good take

[simple shoal]

if you gank top you never want to give top the kill but ganking top was to give him abreather

[flint ferry]

sometimes your bot has no gank setup so you need to gank top to snowball from a few kills

[simple shoal]

bot lane is pretty gankable like top in my opnion

[flint ferry]

unless ur like nunu

[timid osprey]

fuck nunu

[simple shoal]

i play hecarim and rengar for jungle

[flint ferry]

what ur going to walk into their lane with ezreal lulu? how are you going to kill anyone

you will just lose tempo and if the enemy jungler is human you would lose the game from that

[simple shoal]

u can do reganks in a lane and lose very little

[timid osprey]

can we just agree that it's case by case and ignoring top is not a good idea

[flint ferry]

yes

[simple shoal]

no its likely the enemy jungle is also spam ganking bot

[timid osprey]

more emphasis on bot is good sure, but you need to gank what is most beneficial for you and your team
which isn't always going to be bot

[simple shoal]

if ezreal and lulu are playing passive that opens to a 3v2 from enemy jungle so u need to countergank in case bot lane overextends

[flint ferry]

ive seen people fail two ganks to botlane one normal then a regank because they don't have a gank setup then i was 2 levels ahead of him

[timid osprey]

league is much more nuanced then spam gank bot = win

[flint ferry]

1 minute tempo doesn't sound a lot but i can guarantee you it is a lot

[simple shoal]

junglers dont lose alot if they fail ganks unless enemy jungler punishes via camps or objecyive

catchup exp carries failed jungle ganks by alot

[flint ferry]

thats the whole point tho?

obviously you wont lose anything if ur not punished

[simple shoal]

yes but theres only 2 instances of you being significantly punished

one of them is related to bot lane so u only have one disadvantage to fail ganks bot lane

[flint ferry]

play against a higher elo jungler and camp bot only then see what happens if you really want to

your game will be unplayable after failing two ganks

[simple shoal]

thats what i do

[flint ferry]

no you play against a jungler with your skill level so he doesnt punish you which is why you think this way

[timid osprey]

You're gonna get punished if you are spam ganking bot

[simple shoal]

no all junglers in my skill level have the same gameplan

[flint ferry]

thats why you are never climbing

[simple shoal]

sure but i play in a luxuary rank

because there isnt really a good answer to hover bot

that isnt just hover bot

game averages 15 mins because of how snowbally and out of control it can be if you win the coinflip because it becomes a coinflip of who does it better at hovering bot

[sage frigate]

you are not this ekko camped bot all game and well look at that game lost :D

[simple shoal]

ans its the best percentage of winning as a ju gler

[flint ferry]

if its a good jungler and he sees you fail 2 ganks bot, he will invade your topside, after taking those camps he will take herald, after herald he looks gank mid or top if one is successful he goes there kill the laner and uses herald and you lost first tower, then he will back buy items full clear your topside will have respawned he will invade you back again youll see someone 1 level higher than you and your mid won't be able to help because they lost a tower and enemy mid is ahead and you won't even be allowed in your jungler after everything because enemy jungler is too strong then since he is too strong hes going to go gank bot lane like you wanted to do and then youll see your bot lane also loses and you are just a useless champion with smite

[sage frigate]

like the whole meta rn is revolving around bot lane and u say like jungler ganking bot isnt going to be punished

[simple shoal]

if he invades your topside just invade his botside

[sage frigate]

uh huh uh huh if he invades ur top side u think he can do herald next??

[simple shoal]

if u linear jungle properly u just win if u took the bot side of jungle and he took the top

[flint ferry]

yes?

[simple shoal]

also every jungle my elo puts top lane as weaksife

[sage frigate]

ye for sure with no item advantage and the enemy jungler just recalled to buy items

[flint ferry]

im not saying do it after failed ganks im saying do it while

[simple shoal]

because the importance of a strong pressence in bot dictates the game

[sage frigate]

brother u are not doing herald that fast

[flint ferry]

i mean its not that hard

[sage frigate]

not that hard until ur half way then the jungler come and kill u and herald

[simple shoal]

by default u want to path towards bot side

[sage frigate]

that is just coinflipping?? getting 2 kills bot is worth more than 4 camps

[timid osprey]

idk yall really need to watch high elo replays or something

[simple shoal]

so u are already starting top so trying to invade or gank top side is bad when hes bot side

[flint ferry]

30 seconds is enough to finish the invade and remaining 30 seconds is enough to take herald

[simple shoal]

im high elo technichally

[timid osprey]

Sure spam ganking bot might work in your elo where you wont ever be punished

[sage frigate]

fo sure and not covering for bot then they lose 3 waves and die

[simple shoal]

im d2-d1 thats considered high elo

[flint ferry]

i don't want to argue with them

[sage frigate]

gm+ is high elo

[simple shoal]

that is def not high elo

[timid osprey]

Good job and there's challenger players that doesn't buy wards
that doesn't mean that you should never buy wards

[flint ferry]

i refuse to believe that

[simple shoal]

i dont buy wards either my average ward per game is like 2

[sage frigate]

why buy wards when u can track the jungler??

[timid osprey]

yellow wards as a top laner?

[simple shoal]

i only use wards when im fighting so the enemy dosent bush abuse

[flint ferry]

you can't be d2-d1 disagreeing with the high elo playerbase with these arguments

[simple shoal]

thats literally the only time i use my wards

[sage frigate]

disagreeing with what

[flint ferry]

you think you know better than someone who is higher rank than you?

[timid osprey]

If we looked at any high elo replays right now, I garauntee you that junglers are ganking every lane

[simple shoal]

no im telling you my perspective and how junglers my rank play

[sage frigate]

what am i disagreeing with state ur point. dont reply to a question with a question thats basic human etiquette

[simple shoal]

and the most effective way to climb as jungle in my elo/rank

[flint ferry]

thats why they don't climb

[timid osprey]

sure in your diamond lobbies it might work but it doesn't mean that it's how to play efficiently

[simple shoal]

no this is the best way to climb atm because there isnt a way to counter it atm

[timid osprey]

send op gg

[simple shoal]

lord doran na server

i hover d2-d1 i jump between roles

[timid osprey]

lets see how much you climbed since https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1112460339452317696/1119898979480637490/image.png

[simple shoal]

yup

u should see my accounts history its what every player should strive to be

[timid osprey]

...

[simple shoal]

bronze to diamond thats pretty good goal

[timid osprey]

That's low elo...

[sage frigate]

mhm and what is high elo?

[timid osprey]

You climbed low elo by spam ganking bot
now you are platueing

[simple shoal]

d2+

[sage frigate]

the top 2% playerbase = not high

[timid osprey]

because d2 junglers are exposing you

[simple shoal]

nope i climbed by playing bot

[flint ferry]

don't waste your time with these people

[sage frigate]

i would love to use 3 magic letters

[flint ferry]

he also thinks ezreal is not that hard

[timid osprey]

yikes

[simple shoal]

i never said that but hes far from the hardest adc

[sage frigate]

oh is it because adcs only deal dmg through autoattacks and when its skillshot u cant do it?

[flint ferry]

there you go

[simple shoal]

ezreal dosent rely on orbwalking

[flint ferry]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JKnVhGuuZJk

[simple shoal]

orbwalking isnt the hardest adc mechanic its the hardest mechanic in the game to learn and master

[flint ferry]

this is just one from many challenger adc opinions, but sure you are d1 you know better, for sure

[timid osprey]

idk I feel like the point has been made, spam ganking bot is only going to get you so far

[sage frigate]

me when i stay at max Q range and bitch about not doing dmg

[simple shoal]

orbwalking is harder than whatever ezreal does

[timid osprey]

the lp graph has said more then enough

[simple shoal]

send your lp graph

[timid osprey]

I'm not the one saying that spam ganking bot is the way to climb

[simple shoal]

you are debating me about it

[flint ferry]

hes a toplaner he doesn't know jungle its expected

[simple shoal]

i play all roles prob support dosent count

[timid osprey]

I'm sorry I bruised your ego, but I'm not the one here that's flexing on how I'm in high elo by spam ganking bot

[simple shoal]

jungle is my best role i just play top the most

[simple shoal]

ur bringing up challenger players im bringing up my rank

[flint ferry]

want to play a 5v5?

play jungle, i will too

[simple shoal]

im in bed but im down for the idea how does it work

[timid osprey]

Yeah because I trust challenger players, not some guy who is plateauing at d2

[flint ferry]

custom game

[simple shoal]

ok is that it?

can i bring whoeevr i want?

[flint ferry]

sure

[simple shoal]

alrighty sounds great

[timid osprey]

lmfao let me watch

[simple shoal]

can do tomorrow after work

o whats ur opgg

[sage frigate]

following like a muppet :p

drututt: eat shit
"i will master."

[timid osprey]

Do you think you will ever hit challenger in your life?

[simple shoal]

saying im like some guy as a d2 player and comparing me to challenger player is like telling someone junior programmer that hes dumb because senior programmer has a differing perspective but you yourself dont know how to program

[sage frigate]

i am talking about u not me?

[simple shoal]

and you are trying to argue for the senior programmer

i dont debate with challenger players because its actually hard to find a challenger player who wants to debate about league topics let alone goes against what i say

[timid osprey]

I mean I think their gameplay speaks more then words

[simple shoal]

debating with lowelos ehehehehe

[timid osprey]

Do you need someone to tell you how they play when you could just easily watch them play yourself

[simple shoal]

yeah because i myself cannot see what they are thinking

even if they tell u what they see its not the perfect image as what they see if that makes sense

seeing their gameplay does nothing talkint about it does help get closer

them blurting out generic information dosent help all too much

for example back in the day LS made a indepth guide to freezinf

however people dint know that it was a in depth guide to freezing in the mid game

[timid osprey]

Look here's what I think your argument is, you should almost never gank top because bot is that much more important
Do you agree that's your point?

[simple shoal]

yup

[timid osprey]

Cool now what if we watch a random high elo replay and see how often they gank other lanes
will that convince you otherwise?

[simple shoal]

cool what if you watch one of my random jungle games and see how it plays out will that convince you otherwise

[timid osprey]

Sure but I pick

[simple shoal]

go ahead

[sage frigate]

u camp bot but farm ur camps as well its call jungle timing.

[simple shoal]

the only games i lose as jungle is if the enemy jungler is doing the same strat as i am

[timid osprey]

The Hec game where you went 0/4

[simple shoal]

sure go watch the replay

[amber monolith]

camping bot is for sure one of the best way to win solo queue but it's not always possible depending on what champ do you play and what champ botlane play

[timid osprey]

nvm you dont have any watchable jungle games in this patch

[amber monolith]

good luck ganking ezreal lux

[simple shoal]

pm all jungle champs have the tools just some are significantly harxer

[simple shoal]

i can play some soloq games tomorrow if u like

but all the games i play soloq the same thing happens

or the jungle interaction has the same goals in mind

[amber monolith]

sry but i will not give you the pleasure to argue with someone like you 🙂

[timid osprey]

wait
you lost the last 5 ranked jungle games you played

[simple shoal]

yeah

i lost the 50/50 coinflip all 5 times u can watch my enemy replays they do what im telling you jungle players do

[sage frigate]

me when 2 kills bot is worth more than 1 kill top!!

[simple shoal]

unless u were talking about my games on ivern because i was just powerfarming

and then proceed to run bot once i hit daisy

[timid osprey]

idk just go ahead and watch random games from this playlist from players who are better then you and tell me if they only gank bot
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPUygacvheSNPXsqYopY9yA9DbAToT8v9

[simple shoal]

even better ill just watch dantes

[timid osprey]

I mean it's cool that you can climb to diamond with your strat but it's only going to get harder the higher you climb

[sage frigate]

BROTHER why r u still going about this 2 - 1 = 1?

[simple shoal]

idk dantes does it hes challenger

[timid osprey]

is english your first language? sometimes I can't understand what you are typing

[sage frigate]

umm ackshually every challengers prefer diving top 🤓

[sage frigate]

i am skipping words cause u are making me have brain damage its simple math

[timid osprey]

trying to understand you gives me braindamage
you talk like a kid

[sage frigate]

u absolute buffon if u gank bot they get denied twice the amount at top

why is it so hard?

[timid osprey]

i mean what is this even supposed to mean
like waht

[sage frigate]

2 is more than 1.

[simple shoal]

https://youtu.be/3h4o3Ge4vUE
hey look at this game he starts bot side but then he linear junglers bot

[timid osprey]

atleast I can understand where Red is coming from

But you just sound i dont know, like you just learned to speak english

[sage frigate]

i am sleep deprived

[simple shoal]

i am too

i have work in 7 hours though on fathers day very cool time to sleep

[timid osprey]

goto sleep then, you type with incomplete thoughts

[sage frigate]

ur brain fills in the information for u when u read is it that hard

[simple shoal]

give me a kiss goodnight @timid osprey

[sage frigate]

like raaah 2 ppl bot lane 1 top

[timid osprey]

He attempted a gank bot but bot played too safe at 13 mins and failed a gank top at 15 mins

[sage frigate]

andd 1 honor for solo carrying a game man im dead

[timid osprey]

idk he's just kind of power farming all game long

[sage frigate]

ye hecarim is a bad gank unless the enemy champ got nothing to escape with

[timid osprey]

I dont really think Dante is helping your point @simple shoal

[sage frigate]

i agree hes a schizo

u can watch canyon clips tho he always dive bot in my recent memory

[timid osprey]

And even if Dante tried to gank more, it's a poppy ornn matchup top

So it's going to be more beneficial to gank bot or mid

[sage frigate]

ye junglers have to think about what matchup to gank

[timid osprey]

at 19 mins he attempted another gank top

[simple shoal]

@timid osprey >:(

[sage frigate]

he ganking the 3 dashes ksante

[timid osprey]

i dont know this vod isn't helping your case at all

[simple shoal]

bro said im going to bed kiss goodnigjt for boba :(

[sage frigate]

but holy shit can someone gut ksante to shreds

[simple shoal]

i have work ill debate about u after

[sage frigate]

like i just played a game with him and solo carried like what is this?? wish i can do this on my mains

[proper crest]

They still are

[timid osprey]

https://youtu.be/WXvqu87fQ2g

Basically goes indepth on why he paths to what lane

See how he doesn't just spam gank bot because bot lane broken

[sage frigate]

tldr: gank ppl with no escape.

jungler should be adaptive

[modern perch]

same fucking way with jungle

[simple shoal]

dont remind this guy top lane exist in soloq 💀

jungle and top is like the duality of man

[hollow vortex]

This is false, and demonstrably so. Lets take Vayne, one of the better ranged top picks for abusing melee, and look at the matchup into Irelia (vayne's best matchup there): https://www.op.gg/champions/vayne/top/counters?region=global&tier=platinum_plus&target_champion=irelia
Oh look, Irelia has higher lane kill % and faster first tower, despite having a poor matchup win rate, she's still arguably winning lane against Vayne.
Now lets look at a more even matchup: vrs. sett: https://www.op.gg/champions/vayne/top/counters?region=global&tier=platinum_plus&target_champion=sett
despite 50% WR Sett is winning every metric except damage to champions (which is to be expected as someone tanky v. a squishy ranged champ).
And then we have Malphite...who is a spectacular Vayne counter and dominates this matchup in every metric except KDA: https://www.op.gg/champions/vayne/top/counters?region=global&tier=platinum_plus&target_champion=malphite

[lofty rain]

how about nerf it for proplay lmao

[mossy ridge]

https://youtu.be/9kQPv-3czp4

[timid osprey]

based

[buoyant wadi]

Melees getting this sums nerfed because adcs spams it lol

[spiral ermine]

people think "ranged arent allowed to have nice things"
The summoner was too good for melee and ranged alike.

Stop the incessant biased complaints about it, thanks.

[sage frigate]

I just want riot to cut off adcs head for just one patch please <3

[lofty rain]

The only reason i see them having to nerf a certain demographic of champions, is if that demographic has an unfair advantage against another one, without needing skill, if you can outplay a ranged with a melee, or vice versa its kinda just a skill issue, and you dont need to nerf them

[hollow vortex]

They did that to about half of the ADC roster back when they made IE give double crit chance and conversion of some damage on crit to true damage. most crit ADCs were garbo for a while and it made bot lane meta at every elo interesting.

I wish that'd stayed around long enough for people to start learning about all of the alternate strategies for the duo lane that exist, but no, riot couldn't let crit ADC mains suffer for that long.

[sage frigate]

phreak when adcs struggle for just one tiny patch

cues walter white falling down gif

[simple shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-you-were-the-chosen-one-scream-gif-16055856

adc mains when phreak nerfs them

[sage frigate]

adcs when they dont oneshot a person

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/993109192468602890/1078781342566854676/ezgif-3-bf54054782_1-1.gif

[light oyster]

A whiny thread filled with shittakes from low elo toplaners

What a surprise, who could’ve ever seen this coming

[lofty rain]

next is the thread with whiny adcs talking about how bruisers shouldnt be able to stick on them so well

or assasins

[sage frigate]

ye my bad for being a low elo masters toplaner mb

[light oyster]

? yes you are

[steep ermine]

if youre not 20k lp challenger why are you even talking smh my head

[tacit latch]

ah yes all the adc players with no other role to take their champ, what do you expect to happen when a certain demographic has no way to play their favorite role or champion?

some will switch mains and roles, some will adapt, some will quit and stop playing league, and the others will keep on playing that champ/role no matter what

like idk why you guys are whinning tbh, ive been loosing ~1/5 of my health to statik shiv mages playing adc like its no secret that adc is this glass cannon role

[light oyster]

nooooo broooo wdym!!!! I can play my giga busted OP champs everywhere why can't adcs???

[light oyster]

nah, majority will quit, we've already seen this during 8.11

[tacit latch]

8.11? what happened during this patch?

[light oyster]

it wasn't the sole reason they (half ass, still sneaking in nerfs) reverted the patch, but people literally quit over how insanely useless adcs were

the big nerf + buffs to allow APCs bot, effectively killing adcs

mordekaiser was singlehandedly destroying the game by simply existing

[tacit latch]

i feel like i remember this, but at the same time its really late at night

[light oyster]

a stupid amount of adcs literally just stopped playing because there was no point, it's also the patch that broke me and made me switch to jungle for 2 years (I've been playing this shit game since season 3)

they gutted all adc's ad, ad growth, armor, health. health regen and health growth

along with directly nerfing some adcs and nerfing every single adc item

I don't even like the guy, but rekkles literally benched himself because adcs weren't viable in pro play, letting midlaners/support players take his role

it was even worse in soloq

adc strength is far below what it before the current adc item rework, but there are still brainlets that are convinced adc is this braindead super OP role that singlehandedly stops them from finally winning their 19th gold promo

[tacit latch]

oh shit i remember this now

[light oyster]

all glass, no cannon

[tacit latch]

nah not me loosing to sion adc

[spiral ermine]

on the more interesting topic this thread has derailed to, marksman have kind of done it to themselves more or less with being pigeon holed into the bottom lane, there's some outliers here and there sure.

[sage frigate]

Phreak is ur fav isn't he

[light oyster]

Phreak is a career d4 peak clown that is literally clueless about the game

So not much different from you

[sage frigate]

But is he ur fav

[hollow vortex]

It's the one I referred to where IE was made to double crit chance instead of providing some itself: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V8.11
I can see where players of traditional ADCs would rightly hate it, but non-crit ADCs were actually still good after this patch and we saw them rise to prominence during this time (several patches thereafter).

[light oyster]

XD

[hollow vortex]

I played a lot of Essence Reaver Ezreal during that time because it was busted good and no one knew about it.

[light oyster]

ah yes the busted good 46% winrate ezreal

[dark bear]

hahahaha

[tulip stream]

I think stormrazor on jhin is its own separate problem, most other adcs I don't have as much an issue with, ghost is just another cooldown to play around that's useless to good cc

[tacit latch]

nooooo you dont understanddddd, there is cleanse and qss. how are we supposed to cc an adccc :((((((

[tulip stream]

:(((((

[hollow vortex]

This was season 8, for a while after that patch, when it was 70 AD, 20% CDR, and Sheen passive. It was bonkers good on him back then.

[light oyster]

and I'm telling you, for a while after the patch, ezreal was 46% winrate

but keep telling me how amazing adcs were after patch 8.11

[hollow vortex]

I don't care if his wr was low, ER on him at that time was really good, (and I didn't really see anyone else building that first item on him, which might be why his wr was bad). Kai'Sa was good then too, even Vayne was doing ok (on hit w/ rageblade was still good for tank busting). The only ADCs that were legit bad then were the ones used to go IE first (which was like half of them, mostly the ones that wanted AD+crit for a first item).

[light oyster]

lmfao I love how delusional people are

no, not only the adcs that went IE first were bad, all of them were because they fucking dumpstered ALL ADC BASE STATS AND ITEMS

pro players literally quit playing the game so midlaners could take over their spot because adcs were that fucking garbage, even in coordinated play

absolutely delusional "idc if his wr was low" ofc you don't because it doesn't fit your view that ezreal was actually fine (he wasn't, neither was any other adc)

they literally couldn't lane due to everyone else having better base stats, scaling, cheaper and more effective items

8.11 made a decent portion of the adc playerbase straight up quit because they got sick and tired of riot nerfing adc for 5 years straight to the point of making them literally unviable

but sure hit me what that revisionist "only reason ezreal winrate was bad is because people didn't buy ER on him"

gl damaging the mordekaiser + his support that are 3 lvls up on you and have a dragon breathing down your neck with your ER buddy

[timid osprey]

damn Frightning taking L's on every thread these past few days

[hollow vortex]

Literally mained ADC in that season, so I know from lived experience that non IE ADCs were fine. Duskblade had already got a significant deserved nerf (and got another one in 8.17) to it's passive damage, ADC base stat changes were mostly +base hp, lower per level (evened out about level 9), and a little less base AD, less per level. But most of your AD came from items on caster ADCs and the on-hit ones were less dependent on AD because on-hit effects. It's no surprised meta shifted the way it did (mord RW being broken flew mostly under the radar until play-ins and pros showing it off to people, and then it got promptly giga-nerfed).

If anything, people that didn't play ADC for at least a year before season 6 happened, don't even know what balanced ADCs look like with how busted they were from then until 8.11.

Like the only thing that kept ADCs in check after season 6 was Duskblade being giga-broken for a while.

[light oyster]

enough arguing with low elo delusional clowns for tonight, gl with the mental gymnastics, I've heard keeping your brain busy helps ward off dementia so you should be all set if you keep it up

[lofty rain]

glad i don't play adc

[lilac narwhal]

Homie seems to be taking L everywhere he goes. Wouldn't surprise me if irl is the same

[timid osprey]

psst too far

[lilac narwhal]

its never to far

[tulip aspen]

And then they reverted it by giving these items that give ad and ap… so whats your point?

[tulip aspen]

Farm is equally important. An 0/5 midlaner with 300cs is equally strong as a 5/0 midlaner with mediocre farm. Ive played vs assassins who miss all their abilities & have such bad farm they cant buy items, guess who got oneshot?

[floral oracle]

I mean, Assassins can generally oneshot ADCs at 2 items I'd say, even if the Assassin is really bad at farming. They'll just hit their oneshot powerspike a bit later. To say they don't have to hit abilities though is a bit of a joke.

[agile cobalt]

no way behind assassins oneshot fed good adc s

[magic otter]

https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1671630131494899716

lol

[timid osprey]

top laners so damn lucky
yall get to keep your ghost

[flint ferry]

nerf it for ranged only like it is on things like hydra items its not so hard..

[proper crest]

How would you nerf it for range. Make the move speed less or remove the stacking effect of it on takedowns

[flint ferry]

literally just cooldown 240 for ranged champions and normal for melee champs

like titanic hydra 4% hp from melee champs but 3% from ranged champs

[spiral ermine]

Ghost needs nerfed for melee too. i'll post it one more time :)

[magic otter]

if you're going to nerf a summoner spell, it makes more sense to just nerf it as a whole than nerfing it for a particular class

considering the fact summoner spells aren't supposed to be "good" on one and bad on the other

[spiral ermine]

of course, just pointing out the ridiculous bias here.

[magic otter]

i know

a better solution would be to buff something like heal

so ranged (primarily adcs because they're the ones "abusing" it) can swap

[spiral ermine]

Summoner heal should gets its cd nerf reverted from a few years ago.

That was already reverted, my bad. seems the last nerf it got was to the heal strength.

[digital epoch]

How are people still hanging on the notion that the changes were buffs to adcs

They were introduced by Riot as overall nerfs and that's whta they have been proven to be in practice

adc itemization rn is in shambles so people start playing Tri Force on everything

[agile cobalt]

onle people who build triforce are ezreal and zeri before her interaction gets removed

[magic otter]

ashe????

[agile cobalt]

why should ashe ever build trif

[magic otter]

im not saying she should, im saying she is

[agile cobalt]

just build gale

she doesnt cast that many abilities and she has no trouble chasing or kiting

[magic otter]

https://u.gg/lol/champions/ashe/build

other adc that is building it atm is draven

[digital epoch]

Kindred, Ashe, Twitch

And other adc's are trying it out too you must be sleeping under a rock

[agile cobalt]

draven kinda makes sense but doesnt he want full crit?

[digital epoch]

Draven has always gone high dmg mythics regardless of crit

Atm Tri force is high dmg

• a lot of MS

[agile cobalt]

no real idea, first time I hear about this

[digital epoch]

Yeah well it was a trend right after the patch dropped with the adc item changes

[agile cobalt]

also why draven doesnt build er wtf

[digital epoch]

Tri force MS and HP, similar damage too prob

[agile cobalt]

btw ghost does need a nerf

[digital epoch]

I agree but not just because of ranged

I think toplane is more of a reason ngl, kinda toxic that some champs can 100-0 you with ghost and you have to flash and then you're at one and a half minute disadvantage

[agile cobalt]

just nerf overall ghost

doesnt matter than ghost takes time and you can see it, darius can catch you by using flash or ghost, there is no difference

[lofty rain]

How are we still hanging on this thread 💀

[digital epoch]

Relevant

[sage frigate]

Melee when they pay for the sins of ranged

[agile cobalt]

like melee champs are fine

remember Ive seen both mordekaiser and sett on a bot lane, and guess what they got a massive lead and carried

[lilac narwhal]

Because of delusional people

[simple shoal]

ghost is only toxic in top lane if the meta is teleport

[digital epoch]

It is

[simple shoal]

it hasent been teleport ever since they gave teleport a 14 min to upgrade

nope ignite is still the prefered option for top laners

[digital epoch]

It's back to 10 mins now

[simple shoal]

that dosent chante the fact that more champs amd people run ignite over tp

[digital epoch]

Well who says they should

[simple shoal]

its still a combat centric meta for top over a roaming centric

[simple shoal]

bot lane does

[digital epoch]

Besides the good old kill enemy lose lane is still a thing

If enemy has tp

[simple shoal]

teleport meta would be in the gsme still but bot laners complained they were getting 4 man at 5 mins

[digital epoch]

Well yeah that was the most garbage bullshit ever

[simple shoal]

yeah so now its a combat centric meta thanks to bot lane

so ghost isnt relatively that broken as a combat summoner spell if everyone is running ignite

[digital epoch]

Yeah instead of coinflip 5 mins 4v4 bot meta

[simple shoal]

yeah so now the goal of top lane changed to whoever can turbo shit on the other person

or uk pick ornn and do ornn stuff

[digital epoch]

Funny I shit on someone with ignite today while I had tp

Almost as if being low and insta tping back full hp is actually good and combat related too

[simple shoal]

yeah but tbh its alot weaker and harder to pull off this meta as top lane than the tp meta

and adc are still kinda fking the balance for top lane

[digital epoch]

Isn't this what toplaners want tho I thought they wanted it to be isolated 1v1 lane

[simple shoal]

bruisers get kinda fucked up by assassins but gets offset that they can sometimes abuse some assassin items

bruisers and top laners can pretty much never use adc stuff but dosent work the other way around

taking heal exhaust or barrier is flat out trolling for top lane

[digital epoch]

Well yeah

[simple shoal]

or cleanse

and they are looking to nerf bruiser items for item poachibg

[digital epoch]

The sooner you realize this entire game has been built around adc role the better off you are tbh

[simple shoal]

nope it hasent

[digital epoch]

Some patches it's just more obvious than others

[simple shoal]

they just made the game close out sooner so theres more chance to see bot laner controlling the game

jungle dictates the earlygame botlane dictates lategame

[digital epoch]

That sounds contradictory because adc's scale the hardest on average

[simple shoal]

no its correct its just that maybw all ur games are like 30 mins

maybe ur jungler dosent know how to just make it feel like hell

[digital epoch]

No you say because games close out earlier adcs have more chance to control the game

[simple shoal]

yeah but its not early enough to be the most dominant

they just made it so like adc dont need 6 items to take over the game its more like 2 or 3 items now to take over the game

[digital epoch]

Previously adcs started their mythic

[simple shoal]

and even though its lower they still get there items the slowest if its easy

[digital epoch]

2 items spikes were bigger than they are now ngl

[simple shoal]

even* in all roles by nature

yeah but usually top lane is like a item or two ahead and couple levels ahead by nature

[digital epoch]

Top def still not in the best spot but honestly it's better now than it was at start of the season imo

But yeah comparing anything to adc role is just gonna feel pretty bad

Regardless of soloq meta Adc always dominates pro, no exceptions

[simple shoal]

proplay is different from soloq

[digital epoch]

Not really, the players are what's different

[simple shoal]

no its lack of communication in soloq compare to proplay

[digital epoch]

But the game is the exact same

[simple shoal]

if u play a game of clash theres a pretty differing meta as compared to like soloq

[digital epoch]

So yeah adc will always feel weirdly balanced because the role is inherently unbalanced

[agile cobalt]

Who cares about clash

[simple shoal]

clash is the closest to ur average player being connected to a proplay meta

[agile cobalt]

OK then go on

[simple shoal]

prettymuch every assassin is like nonexistent in clash the function of top greatly changes

[digital epoch]

Clash meta mostly different cuz enemy bans out your otps

[simple shoal]

that and its alot easier to stop a singular person

so no one person should be turbo shitting the entire team without assistance

mid and support are like the only roles that function the same regardless of what level you are playing in

[digital epoch]

I mean a player that plays top champs that eventually help their bot be stronger ie frontline for them should find more success than a greedy solo player who just wants to kill and side and if the balance is towards the former I think that isn't a bad thing, if the balance is focused on solo carrying then adcs are probably in the dumpster which I don't think riot would wanna try

but then also tanks become stronger as well

[simple shoal]

those are not the function of top lane

[digital epoch]

What is it then

[simple shoal]

pressure

pretty much remove pressure from ur other lanes and able to exert it as much as possible

the easiest way to do that is win 1v1 against the enemy top all the time and force enemy to send more people after you

that is the easiest way to win as top

[digital epoch]

Ehh I guess

[simple shoal]

then just a matter of good time good place

but u can alsp do it by pure zonint

[digital epoch]

Idk I feel like if you just pick cho gath or ornn and sit and scale for your team you might find more success rn

[simple shoal]

because bruisers are the only class that can zone by walking

nope picking olaf and beating the shit out of darius and sitting in a lane will net better result

eventually they are going have to send more than darius to deal with u

[agile cobalt]

And dominate teamfights

[simple shoal]

because ur just going get inhib tower while beating the shit out of darius

[agile cobalt]

Reply to this

[simple shoal]

but if enemy team does send more people to u literally ur team just has to get any objective and its a net win

[digital epoch]

Yeah I agree ofc it works like that if you pick something that looks to fight in lane

[simple shoal]

olaf

[echo sparrow]

holy moly this thread is still going

[simple shoal]

its just top lane and bot lane debating against eachother

[steep ermine]

practically, maybe this would work. but fundamentally, i think its a bad idea for the game in general

less because it is ineffective or unnecessary (though i wouldnt be able to say much on that front anyway), but more because it screams band-aid solution and nobody likes those

ahem ahem bork, lethal tempo

[timid osprey]

if you need to wait 6 items to carry, that's a shit idea

2-3 is a really good number to carry

also every top laner is stupid strong at 1 item compared to anyone else in the game

So that no one can match them

[agile cobalt]

cuz top lane is all about bullying

in bot there are supports who protect you with cc or enchanting
in mid you got your tower to run at
and in both you have jungler to help you
there are none of those in the top lane, its only you and your god

[simple shoal]

back then games were a hour long

[buoyant wadi]

Why is this thread still alive

[agile cobalt]

cuz fuck adcs