with the new items either you are getting no AD or no AS, at 2 items you'll be missing an upgrade, some times you finish them 20 min into game when it's too late
#Kaisa build?
ancient orbit
rigid zealot
Old Kai'Sa used to build KS partly for the 65 AD on it so that should could get the all important Q evolve by first component of 2nd item. Now I'm not sure what I'd build to get my evolutions, but it should be too hard to get both evolves at 2 items+component at most.
(I'm not counting zerker's which is also a given for AS).
zinc panther
isnt rageblade just good on her
30 AD 30 AP 25% AS
you can still get nashor's tooth for the large amount of its stats
rigid zealot
I think you can maybe get it in 2 items (with Q) but that might make Q evolve later. It's a mini-game w/ Kai'Sa
Once I get back from work maybe I'll take a closer look at items and figure out a good path (I tended to prefer on-hit in the past, even though AD+crit was winning more)
tidal geyser
isnt rageblade just good on her
nope rage is bait
its really awkward to build on kaisa
p sure the build on her is storm gale or storm ie
into a kraken or rfc
i dont remmeber what the build was for q evolve
collector rfc is also okay on her im p sure
rigid zealot
nope rage is bait
previous iteration of rageblade was good for on-hit Kai'Sa specifically, but even then it was 3rd item (after Kraken+BotRK). I'm not as sure about the current one, still has Seething Strike (which is why on-hit Kai'Sa loved it).
tidal geyser
previous iteration of rageblade was good for on-hit Kai'Sa specifically, but eve...
rageblade just doesnt preform as well as other items rn
rigid zealot
Ornn upgrade for it has highest win rate of all items on her rn, regular version is just below Galeforce (which was just nerfed)
Looks like you should be aiming for around 87 AD from items and around 85% AS from items to hit your evolutions on time. These numbers are achievable at 1 item+AD component with Doran's Blade for AD for Q, and 2 items+AS component, so evolution timings aren't really changing much. As for item choices, not certain what AD stat stick I want go first (Stormrazor is popular and doing pretty well, so maybe that is choice), but I think BotRK->Guinsoo's for 2nd and 3rd item like I used to do will still work great).
The more I look at it, the more I like Stormrazor->AD components for (BotRK)->Zerks->BotRK completion-> Guinsoo's (E evolve at 1st Dagger if my math is right) as a core build, Q evolve is at Stormrazor+AD components towards BotRK (Pickaxe+Vamp Scepter or just Longsword part of vamp depending on level)
tidal geyser
sorry wrong thing lemme take a look
rigid zealot
I think the item changes made on-hit Kai'Sa better than AD+crit now too.
hybrid pen from Rageblade is really good on her late game.
tidal geyser
idk when gale force nerfs hit
rigid zealot
Recently
It's only doing slightly better than Rageblade atm as mythics on Kai'Sa go
and some of those games were pre-nerf too, so I doubt it's really better, but it's certainly an option (maybe better v. squishier, higher burst enemy comps)
tidal geyser
okay so prenerfs gale was the better option
rigid zealot
Maybe, it's also a lot less games played
tidal geyser
gale just felt better from what i experienced
faster q evolve with a bf noon kirch for 85 ad,
rigid zealot
It has the same stats as Stormrazor, so it would be built first if you opt to not go Rageblade)
tidal geyser
for rageblade its pick noon kirch
rigid zealot
you would need more than 85 AD at lower levels
tidal geyser
which gives you 70 ad total which either means you start building a 3d item
rigid zealot
This is why I like BotRK components (and going that 2nd)
tidal geyser
or you get your q evolve later.
rigid zealot
you can get all 40 AD for the full BotRK from components
(delay boots or at least boots 2)
which w/ Stormrazor gives 95 AD from items (more than enough), can probably just pick in most games to get the Q evolve (after 3000 gold Stormrazor)
tidal geyser
okay well new items i have no clue
rigid zealot
so that's a sub 4k gold Q evolve.
tidal geyser
but from last patch rage was not the play, felt horrible as well
rigid zealot
What I did prior to item changes was Kraken->BotRK->Guinsoo's
tidal geyser
prior items gale was better than rage new items i have no clue
rigid zealot
I went Kraken over gale for old items
tidal geyser
just wait and see in this case
thats cool and all but kraken is not always the play
rigid zealot
old kraken w/ 65 AD was nice for Q evolve tempo.
tidal geyser
just dont recc anything rn, we have no clue whats going to happen
rigid zealot
We have the reworked items atm, that's how I figured out the new build
I don't really expect them to change Stormrazor's stats much (it's passive might eat a nerf tbh)
tidal geyser
then i doubt rage will be better than gale storm then
rigid zealot
you can get Stormrazor w/ Rageblade though
I think the problem is people thinking they have to mythic by 2nd item, it's not a big deal to delay it til 3rd
1 item worth of mythic passive missing between items 2 and 3 is worth if building them in that order gives meaningful benefits (which it does in this case)
Note that I am skipping Doran's Blade and starting Longsword+3 pots w/ this build too (a lot of other builds use the D-Blade for the last bit of AD to get evolutions on time).
rigid zealot
then i doubt rage will be better than gale storm then
The passive is really not why Kai'Sa's are building it first, it's the 55 AD and 15% AS, that's the main reason (and it being only 3000 gold).
Note those are same stats as Galeforce atm, and it's not a mythic so we can still take Rageblade later on for all the good things that does.
rigid zealot
No, it isn't, it's all about getting those evolutions on time.
ancient orbit
how will you get AS evolve with 15% plus rageblade 25%
rigid zealot
Old Kraken Slayer was 3400 gold for 65 AD and 25% AS (which was better, but doesn't really change evolution timings, which is what matters)
You don't get Rageblade 2nd for starters, it's 3rd item, 2nd item is BotRK (so, 15% AS from SR, 35% from zerkers, 25% from bork, that's 75% right there, just a dagger towards rageblade and we're at 87% and E evolved)
From the looks of it, Q evolve is at about 4225 gold (Stormrazor+Pickaxe+Longsword) Not counting some potions.
ancient orbit
I will switch to ap build I think
rigid zealot
E evolve is at 7700 gold not counting potions
ancient orbit
don't like any form of these crit/on hit items
rigid zealot
Those are similar to before.
AP build is kinda trash, only version of it that's not godawful is the Muramana+Nashors core which has weird late evolution timings (but at least gets Q evolve)
plus that's another mythic 3rd build btw
(usually was Crown of the Shattered Queen)
90% of itemizing Kai'Sa right is getting Q and then E evolutions fast, the rest is just getting more stats and effects that fit.
ancient orbit
before it was so easy, you truly never know what you have until you lose it
rigid zealot
Both in the process and afterwards. Stormrazor is a nice stat stick and the passive is not bad at all (good scaling on it)
ancient orbit
I'm giving my right hand and leg for old kraken
rigid zealot
You just have to learn the new items and figure out the minigame
I did that a long time ago when Muramana got reworked because I wanted to find a build that fit BotRK in nicely back when no1 ever built that item on her because it was tricky to fit in because it's passive is super good on her but it was always a 'how to fit this into the build' issue....and I solved that issue back then and got Muramana->Bork->Guinsoo's which worked nicely at the time.
ancient orbit
it feels really bad because you can't choose what to build now, has to work with evolves
rigid zealot
She's always been like that
ancient orbit
before you could just go kraken into anything it and it did its thing
rigid zealot
Just that it took people a while to figure that out. I literally had a challenger coach teach me the old Stormrazor build and he told me that the goal w/ itemizing Kai'Sa was evolutions as fast as you can (specifically Q and then E).
ancient orbit
before you could kraken with zeal zerkers and build whatever for the rest of the game and you have E evolve
rigid zealot
before I got E evolve at bork completion (which is about the same amount of gold as now w/ bork+dagger but cheaper SR instead of 3400 gold KS.
Actually, old evolves where at 4275 and 7800 gold, so this new build has slightly quicker evolves than my old build.
(50 gold faster Q, 100 gold faster E).
ancient orbit
I haven't done the math, just from how it feels I'm not liking it, not having the old kraken mythic bonus really removes what you can build
I'm thinking wits end might be the secret hero right now
rigid zealot
Yea, I think I just theory crafted a 2nd build option, start D-blade->IE->Vamp scepter for Q, then build zerks->Runaan's+AS component (dagger is all that's needed) for E (this is a good path to setup a AD+crit build).
Kai'Sa's a lot better off that Yasuo and Yone are w/ the changes (those 2 are really missing ISB)
ancient orbit
I'm seeing some potential with kraken and wits
you get AS evolve almost without zerker
this reminds of the season where adc items were so bad mathematicians were calculating the most efficient components and you wouldn't finish the items
ancient orbit
Yea, I think I just theory crafted a 2nd build option, start D-blade->IE->Vamp s...
I like this idea too
rigid zealot
I'm seeing some potential with kraken and wits
Only 80 AD, Q evolve is the really important 1
rigid zealot
this reminds of the season where adc items were so bad mathematicians were calcu...
I mean this is still what I do for figuring out itemization on most ADCs, Kai'Sa just has the added layer of figuring out the evolution timings.
I figured out in season 7 that double AS+crit item was inferior to getting Essence Reaver as the 3rd crit item, and it showed in my win rate on certain ADCs, especially Caitlyn and Jinx.
ancient orbit
you are right
lately people either went a lot of attack speed on caitlyn or full on lethality
while the truth was somewhere in the middle
rigid zealot
I mean, now the best build for Caitlyn is straight IE rush first, there are a number of items to get afterwards but generally you don't want much AS (zerks and maybe the 15% from RFC is enough, run LT to help make up for missing AS).
tall chasm