Using items that give mana on champs that dont use mana, Online Statistics are poor excuse.

[hollow rose]

who the fuck buys mana items on mana less champs?

like which players and which champs

cause none do

[smoky marsh]

Rumble? for one

[hollow rose]

he typically goes nh or proto?

[smoky marsh]

less than half of ones i play with or against get anything besides Liandry's

[hollow rose]

…

the core build for rumble is nh into shadow

or proto into shadow

liandries is the minority

and rarely purchased based off statistics

[smoky marsh]

well then you dont run into as many as i do

[hollow rose]

dude

i googled the fucking rumble builds which shows statistics of all games

“you don’t run into as many as i do”

[opaque plaza]

riven , trydmare, rengar use to run er

[hollow rose]

i don’t count er as a mana item because it’s not giving mana as stats

it’s just a bonus

[smoky marsh]

er?

[opaque plaza]

shyvana

is last resprt

[hollow rose]

because all the stats given are utilized very well

[hollow rose]

what does she build?

[opaque plaza]

nh

[hollow rose]

i find it’s either nh into full ap or bork into bruiser/tank

how is that mana

[opaque plaza]

but could go liadanry

on her

but situational

[hollow rose]

see but the diff is could not will

[opaque plaza]

same as luden

[hollow rose]

the post person said

“you shouldn’t have to buy a mana item on a mana less champ to be good”

[opaque plaza]

only need luden passive

[hollow rose]

when no manaless champ has to buy a mana item to be good

and none have them as their core item

[opaque plaza]

most manalesss champion buy mana item only want their passive or active

[smoky marsh]

using terms like "core" in a game based entirely on the person playing is irrelevent

[hollow rose]

???? no it’s not

considering how you worded your statement

[hollow rose]

.

when all their core builds don’t have mana items

it clearly means

they don’t need mana items to be good

[lime cloak]

Most non mana champs don’t build the mythics with mana

[opaque plaza]

it not main build

[hollow rose]

almost all*

[opaque plaza]

rumble be using nh

[lime cloak]

Nh and proto are just more useful for rumble and his play style

[opaque plaza]

since nh overpower probletor lmao

[smoky marsh]

Its not a matter of if the "champ" doesn't build it, i talking about the PLAYER getting it

[lime cloak]

E with nh early game hurts

[hollow rose]

no.

you said

manaless champs

should not have to build

mana items

to be good

NO MENTION

of a player

[smoky marsh]

exactly

[hollow rose]

SO WHY

did you toe

type*

THAT

when it contradicts

your main statement

[smoky marsh]

Ok mr. "Technical"

[hollow rose]

nah im done

[lime cloak]

Even then it’s probably just a preference, like maybe rumble enjoys going everfrost to guarantee a max combo

[hollow rose]

he doesn’t even understand his own post

cya

[lime cloak]

Maybe mana mythics on manaless champs work for some but otherwise it’s just not cost efficient cuz all that extra mana is going to waste when it could going toward dmg

[smoky marsh]

Changed it to point out the obvious pont im making here

im saying this cause pretty much everytime im playing with or agaisnt a manaless champ, they ALWAYS get a mana item tho they dont use mana

[lime cloak]

Players don’t have to, it’s literally preference

[smoky marsh]

Im saying from my experience

[lime cloak]

It’s like how mana champs don’t get mana mythics

[lime cloak]

Well I have yet to see a mana mythic on a manaless champ so far

[smoky marsh]

yea they do?

its the same item pool for everyone

[lime cloak]

Meant get

[smoky marsh]

oh ok

i'm mean with just how many items in the game, you can tell an item is kinda busted on champs that dont use mana if they get it regardless jsut for the passive effect

[dark lantern]

it's rlly dependent

like for me, ill build liandries on vlad sometimes

[smoky marsh]

cause i know its crazy but ive seen a Darius build Liandry's and Demonic before just to do more burn damage with his passive

even tho he doesnt use AP for anything

[dark lantern]

that's way more for fun than a regular build

or like off meta

[smoky marsh]

but its just insane the certain items are stupid enough even tho it makes no sense for them to build it on them

[lime cloak]

I mean I could see rumble going liandrys

Cuz of Q and Ult

[dark lantern]

he can

[lime cloak]

Pretty sure he goes demonic 3rd item anyways

[dark lantern]

like i said i run liandries sometimes on vlad

[smoky marsh]

only thing i can think of is either they need to make mana-less champs items build different so the mana isnt a part of it, or something else im not sure what

[dark lantern]

it's not like they're perma building these items

[smoky marsh]

perma building?

[dark lantern]

always building it

[smoky marsh]

in my opinion, if its more than 50% it's enough logically

[dark lantern]

give me a manaless champ that builds a mana item

50% of the time

[opaque plaza]

riven player

who are otp

rengar player

[dark lantern]

what does riven build?

[opaque plaza]

[dark lantern]

if ur talking about essence reaver

it "restores mana"

no mana in the actual stats or anything like that, wouldnt rlly count it as a mana item

[opaque plaza]

could say shyvana

run luden or liandary

[dark lantern]

she doesnt run luden/liandry

[opaque plaza]

before forstfire and nh

buff

[dark lantern]

if shes going full ap she runs NH

idk what she ran before NH buff

[opaque plaza]

some people still run those item

it was either luden or lliandry before nh buff and forst fire

[summer jackal]

“This champion shouldn’t have to build this item”

“Dude he doesn’t, builds say otherwise”

“You’re wrong”

Man I love league serious.

[gaunt marlin]

Frozen heart on sett

[hollow rose]

👍

impossible to logic with people

[summer jackal]

My brother in Christ you’re complaining about a problem that isn’t real.

man’s made up an issue to bitch about

[hollow rose]

@summer jackal

dont even try to use reason

it doesnt work

i used statistics and got told i dont see as many rumbles as him

you cant win a fight into someon with no grasp of the concept

[summer jackal]

Sure I can. Laughing at them for dying on a barren hill is funny.

Specially when that hill is a foot of dirt on a garbage heap.

[hollow rose]

.

like look

[outer hedge]

If you're against 4 marksmen, i dont see any reason to not build it

[gaunt marlin]

One really fed one

[hollow rose]

arguably randuins/chains is better there

[gaunt marlin]

U right

[outer hedge]

new randuins

[hollow rose]

more hp poge

[outer hedge]

🙏

[gaunt marlin]

Frozen heart also works against non adcs as well

[hollow rose]

ye that true

[gaunt marlin]

Irelia

Uhh

[summer jackal]

Manaless champs don’t build mana items. Like ever.

[hollow rose]

frozen heart is sorta the exception

thats decently common on manaless tanks like zac or bruisers

[summer jackal]

Like name me a manaless champ who builds a mana item as a serious part of their core. I can think of one champ who did it, tryndamere, and that was almost three years ago

[hollow rose]

rencar back when assassin rencar was meta

but now hes more bruisery so no

[opaque plaza]

Old lichbane

Was funny

[smoky marsh]

Not seen or had it happen to himself so he says it’s a “made up” problem.

[smoky marsh]

If you’re going to say something “like ever” You really shouldn’t be talking about anything for a game this in as long as league because there is and always will be someone

[hollow rose]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805786421276311602/1030064062400315462/IMG_7882.png

hmmm

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805786421276311602/1030064270563618836/IMG_7883.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805786421276311602/1030064546154553384/IMG_7884.png

do i need to go to every manaless champ

to prove you wrong

[cosmic star]

frozen heart on mundo

[hollow rose]

.

pls read before responding

ty 👍

[cosmic star]

i'm not reading all this shit

[serene holly]

manamune on tryndamere

[granite bluff]

thats a silly point

its just a bonus?

everything an item gives is a bonus

some features of items are not particularly desirable, so its a bonus in your meaning of the term for those cases (like the HP on shadowflame)

[summer jackal]

Then don’t participate.

You don’t join a conversation when you have no intentions of learning what the hell it’s about.

[summer jackal]

I’ve only been playing this game for four years, and the only two examples of people building mana items on manaless champs are tryn building essence for 20% CDR, and frozen heart on some manaless tanks. Is it wasted gold? By all technicalities, yes, but if the other stats weren’t worth the purchase then people wouldn’t purchase them, so a dump stat is irrelevant.

[hollow rose]

Idk how to break it to ya but almost most manaless champions do not buy mana items because it's wasted gold

Only time that happens is when a mana item is rly broken on them

[summer jackal]

Sure, there’s always gonna be someone breaking the mold, but that’s a problem they’re creating for themselves. What some dink does for their rogue build does not encompass the entire meta for that champion. One person doing the wrong thing does not mean it’s a problem for the entire champs playerbase, this train of thought is absurd.

[hollow rose]

Also rengar

because of how good it was with his old Q

[summer jackal]

You can’t take the mouthpiece off a trumpet, struggle to play it, and then complain that trumpets shouldn’t need mouthpieces to be played.

That is a problem you yourself created, an issue no one else is having.

[hollow rose]

Actually the term "core items" means they're vital items for the champion so they always end up with them in the build

For example core items for xerath at this moment would be Ludens/sorcs and horizon focus meaning he always has them bought

[cosmic star]

i'm just not reading because of all the copium in this discord

and you are no one to say if I can participate or not

[summer jackal]

If you have nothing to contribute don’t contribute.

[cosmic star]

I have contribute

[summer jackal]

Pulling “copium” is hardly a contribution, piss off.

You were told we brought up frozen heart already and got huffy about it.

[cosmic star]

and what you are doing now except breaking the balls of everyone

you are destroying the post for your ego

just stfu and talk about the post

[summer jackal]

Don’t know why I haven’t muted you sooner, anyways.

[cosmic star]

cool

do it

[summer jackal]

What one person does on rumble does not speak for all of rumble players, and it certainly doesn’t give you any grounds to complain about it being an issue.

[cosmic star]

mute me

bro

do it

mute me

[summer jackal]

I don’t get to throw a brick at my foot, break half my toes, and then blame the brick

[cosmic star]

you want to be a piece of shit

then do it

only words and then do nothing as always

poor ego

[summer jackal]

Gets on me bout ego then posts 20 messages. Alright dude

[cosmic star]

always words

keep responding

while saying that he will mute me

seems like it hurts

[summer jackal]

“Core” matters when the vast majority considers it what the champ should build, thus why it’s considered “core”

[hollow rose]

So as I've said "vital items"

[summer jackal]

If everyone says it’s what should be built, then people don’t get to complain about the items they shouldn’t build being bad. no shit, you weren’t supposed to build that

[hollow rose]

I mean vicc

If you've ever been below silver

you know people there go grasp tank viktor

and others cry about it

OH I got it

@smoky marsh so watch high elo rumble mains and see how many build mana items on him

you can do it for every manaless champion and reach a conclusion

[smoky marsh]

Looking at something online is not the same as seeing it in game, so please cut the saltiness back into ranked games

[summer jackal]

Mans is ignoring us just to be spiteful. How mature.

[hollow rose]

True but seeing something in a silver game won't make it good

[smoky marsh]

Yes you still are

[smoky marsh]

Not “all” rumble players but a decent amount to bring it up

[hollow rose]

give me rank and region and I'll do research on it

[summer jackal]

What a minority does doesnt speak for the champ as a whole. If people are running a rogue build that works worse than the build they should be running, they don’t get to complain about “rumble shouldn’t have to build this”

Because he doesn’t have to build it.

[smoky marsh]

Again, not acting like riot here and only pay attention to the “majority” and look as a whole even down to the minimal details

[smoky marsh]

Sorry but I’ve got my own games to play, then fall asleep watching boring gameplay

[summer jackal]

Man’s is speedrunning “I had no intention to listen I just wanted to complain”

[hollow rose]

so in iron NA only 84 games are liandry games with 1477 games played

[summer jackal]

And as an added bonus he chose a problem that is self-inflicted

[hollow rose]

actually world but NA can't play rumble

NA rumble is like oce diamond players playing in kr

[smoky marsh]

Judging a play style based on rank is like judging a person IQ cause of how they can when in a wheelchair

[hollow rose]

itemizing on rumble will not change playstyle much when you go from building ap with no mana items

to building ap witih mana

you still do the exactly same thing

[opaque plaza]

Hmmm do rumble in high elow run fh

[summer jackal]

what?

[opaque plaza]

As option when fight high barrack speed

[smoky marsh]

They’re should be a thing as “should” build only what they shouldn’t

[hollow rose]

Rocketbelt is a hot one

for higher elos

[opaque plaza]

Frozen heart seen niche

Since active work

[hollow rose]

frozen heart on rumble is not rly

needed

[summer jackal]

And they shouldn’t build mana items if they’re bad. The thing is, they’re not building mana items

[hollow rose]

You don't need defenses on rumble

[opaque plaza]

Well need zhonya

[hollow rose]

You just need to use your ult well and then you're good

zhonya yeah but you don' t need frozen heart

[smoky marsh]

See? Hard to understand

[hollow rose]

zhonya can help you bait people in side lanes and pop them as soon as you get out

frozen heart just wastes a lot of gold

[summer jackal]

What your saying doesn’t even make sense in the context of what you’re trying to argue

[hollow rose]

Okay so apparently NA gold buys liandries the most

[smoky marsh]

No such thing as not building it, just cause the “majority” isn’t

[hollow rose]

being 19 games

as first item

after that none have liandries as the core item

[summer jackal]

Of course, but if you’re building something other than what everyone says you should build, you don’t get to complain about it being bad for the champ. No shit, it’s why everyone else is building something else

[smoky marsh]

That’s cause you aren’t getting the context, stopping looking at what you want to know and see ALL there is

[summer jackal]

Is this guy on something?

[hollow rose]

Just get the memo of mana items being bad on manaless champions and let's move on?

Unless they're really good in a very situational game

[smoky marsh]

I’m not saying it’s “bad” for the champ I’m just saying it makes no sense for the champ

[hollow rose]

You will not have them as a core item

[summer jackal]

Sure, let’s let him complain about a problem of his making in quiet.

[smoky marsh]

Only spreading the truth to those that refuse to hear it

[hollow rose]

Well that's like saying a women should never wear clothes that look more so made for men because they're women

[summer jackal]

YES, WHICH IS WHY NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND BUILDING IT IF THE OTHER STATS ARENT WORTH IT

[hollow rose]

Like yeah it may make them look like a women but they can still get it if they want

[hollow rose]

Well benefit of the doubt some items that look troll on manaless champions can actually be valuable in niche situations

[summer jackal]

Man, your mom didn’t say no to you very often, did she?

[hollow rose]

just never as core

[smoky marsh]

It’s league, there is no such thing as a right mind, or about 30% of the champs wouldn’t be played

[summer jackal]

Sure, but the argument was laundries on rumble. Something, as you put, nineteen whole people built

[opaque plaza]

Er still core build to trydmare iirc

[hollow rose]

yeah very situational item

It can be good just not as core

[opaque plaza]

Because navori just shit item

[smoky marsh]

Why would she? I was the only one that did anything around the house

[summer jackal]

I will also, not disagree with that, but the argument was that rumble should not have to build a mana item to be good

[smoky marsh]

19 people that I’ve seen out of the 19 games I played that had a rumble in. So yea

[hollow rose]

he really doesn't

[summer jackal]

The obvious answer to this argument is he doesn’t have to, in fact the vast majority of the time, literally over 99% of the time, he doesnt

[outer hedge]

Isn't ludens better than liandries on rumble?

[hollow rose]

rumble's core items atm are Nightharvester

[summer jackal]

Bro just admit you’re trolling and fuck off

[hollow rose]

liandries really good into melee team comps

[smoky marsh]

Again, ranked statistics don’t make up the entirety of the game

[hollow rose]

otherwise you don't go ludens you go rocket belt

[outer hedge]

What will liandries do to melee comps?

[opaque plaza]

Burn their hp

Unless run fon

[summer jackal]

If you build something a better player wouldn’t then you don’t get to complain about a champ being bad because they build it, that doesn’t make sense

[opaque plaza]

Then you are screw

[hollow rose]

makes his ult stupidly good

[outer hedge]

Isn't magic pen better in that situation?

[smoky marsh]

You’re the one trolling by continuing to put your “statistics” in something that was meant to be a discussion

[hollow rose]

Because if their comp is mostly melees you'll end up forcing them into a chaotic team fight

[opaque plaza]

If build mr

[hollow rose]

which they won't really like to take

[opaque plaza]

If build hp item

With zero mr item

[smoky marsh]

Well that depends on if they have melee range abilities to proc it

[summer jackal]

I don’t get to throw a brick at my foot, break half my toes, and blame the brick

[hollow rose]

Well yes and no?I mean you don't always need rocket belt magic pen or ludens magic pen

to play vs magic pen

you need to remember if you are the only Ap or you only have 2 AP sources they are wasting gold

for you

While your main damage is the AD damage

[summer jackal]

So far all you’ve wanted to discuss is “im right and you’re all wrong”

[hollow rose]

And besides if they stack mr

you probably gonna do more dmg from lianries burn

[summer jackal]

Vice versa if your ADC is some old dude in a trench coat throwing birds at people

[outer hedge]

I think ludens is better, because most tanks will build fon if they see a rumble

[hollow rose]

Again itemizing is completely situational

[outer hedge]

Ludens just makes your burn deal stupid amount of damage with your bolts

[hollow rose]

no champion only has 1 mythic

I wouldn't rly go ludens though because from what I'm aware that's best against squishies who don't buy MR

1 megatron is enough to get rid of ludens + pen boots

[summer jackal]

Specially not going into season 13, I can think of at least three good builds headed by three separate mythics going into the new season for Swain

[smoky marsh]

Well if the AP person is doing things “correctly” Luden is to go to burst the squishies, cause they shouldn’t be ignoring the tanks

[hollow rose]

So I really wouldn't go that atm

[opaque plaza]

I say build magic pen if someone build mr

[hollow rose]

Well my point was you will never buy same item every game if you know what to buy

[opaque plaza]

[hollow rose]

idk if u troll or if u not

[opaque plaza]

It truth

[summer jackal]

Yesnt. Some cores are pretty non-negotiable.

[hollow rose]

for example?

[smoky marsh]

I’d just say it’s something that bugs me seeing a burst mage building liandries when the need the extra burst against ADCs

[opaque plaza]

A lot of player don’t rush magic pen when run three mr item

[smoky marsh]

Magic pene is like the 2nd item I get after Mythic

[summer jackal]

Swains getting mask and isn’t really gonna get another mythic. He’s not gonna say no to sorcs, and only very recently has rylai’s been trying to take zhonya’s place.

After core, yeah the build can branch out, but for a lot of champions, core is a “buy these three things in this order, go from there”

[hollow rose]

support or?

I can actually think of swain being able to use 2 other mythics

if they know game won't drag on for long enough

[summer jackal]

Or mid. Or ADC. Or top. Swains core is pretty non-negotiable

[hollow rose]

on adc hmm

[summer jackal]

Swain just gets so much out of X Y and Z items

[hollow rose]

I think on adc swain can also go ludens situationally

[summer jackal]

Liandry burn gives his ult maxHP damage, sorcs let you crush what little MR most of your opponents will have, everyone knows how Swain interacts with zhonya’s, and rylai’s means you’re a walking anivia R

[summer jackal]

I would heavily suggest against that. Swain does not have enough consistent poke to capitalize on that

[proven star]

I miss old swain

papa swain was based

[summer jackal]

Many do. I joined in season 8 so I’ll never know

[proven star]

nevermoooove

[hollow rose]

I'm not denying the synergy swain has with liandries

[proven star]

his W was a one hit wonder

[hollow rose]

don't get it wrong

[proven star]

if you were chad at landing it, you won every game

[summer jackal]

I am denying his synergy with Ludens

[smoky marsh]

So that was quite a bit of a discussion on things, but it branched out too far than I would have like cause someone or some people can’t understand that things aren’t always “their” way and I’m atleast glad I got my point from experience across

[proven star]

old swain built tear + RoA

[hollow rose]

Well ludens is really situational mostly because of that lack of synergy

[proven star]

landed his W snare, hit you with e so you took more damage, and walked on you with his ult

[hollow rose]

but some games it can be rly fun to use

[hollow rose]

RoA coming back home

[summer jackal]

Everfrost? Sure, I see it. Night harvester? Your mana is gonna hurt, but I fuck with Swain being fast in fights, but ludens?

[proven star]

old swain can 5v1

[hollow rose]

tbh I mostly see swain go ludens and other mythics

if really far behind

[proven star]

your swain NOT going liandy?

what are you, high?

[summer jackal]

Lack of synergy is the issue. If it’s not worth buying, why buy it?

[hollow rose]

I'm not rly playing swain as a whole

[proven star]

if I see swain not going liandry

I think hes smoking al ot

[hollow rose]

because why not we all have games we want to troll!

[proven star]

cause he doesnt want insane free damage

[summer jackal]

Again, swains core is pretty much non-negotiable.

[summer jackal]

Moonstone renewer is a more acceptable choice than Ludens tempest.

[proven star]

at that point I'd just go sunfire swain

[hollow rose]

I actually want to see the day I see some swain go full magic pen and one shot adc with W across the map

[proven star]

:^)

[hollow rose]

I can see myself go swain mid with imperial mandate

Imperial,rylais and sorc

[summer jackal]

I actually have been playing with artillery Swain jungle in the preseason

Unfortunately his W damage doesn’t really get as high as you’d want it, but it’s fun to be a constant presence in 2-3 lanes

Swains kit doesn’t wanna Burst or blow anyone up, it wants to constantly wear down as many people as possible.

[hollow rose]

speaking of which

he got a rework didn't he

let me check it

[summer jackal]

Which is why i plan to go rocketbelt cosmic Swain jungle next and turn him into AP graves

[summer jackal]

Swains midscope was back in may, we’re you under a rock?

[hollow rose]

I haven't played league since 2020

[summer jackal]

Ah

[hollow rose]

Wanna come back in 2023 tho

[hollow rose]

are you fucking stupid

look at the percentages

your saying if

of*

“i saw someone build it and your game wide ENTIRE PLAYERBASE is wrong”

like what the hell

[summer jackal]

Yeah no you were right there’s no arguing with this dude

Man’s didn’t come to debate he came to be right about something

[hollow rose]

yup

ignores statistics because he saw a rumble in his iron game go ludens and go 25/0

[summer jackal]

Probably he is the rumble and upset his rogue build didn’t work and went 0/25

[hollow rose]

wouldn’t be suprised

but don’t worry we are pointing out the flaws in his post because egos

not because he is outright wrong

[summer jackal]

I don’t understand the train of thought at all.
“How dare rumble be forced to buy this item”
points to an item less than 1% of rumble players build

[smoky marsh]

Sorry He didn’t go ludens he went Liandries, and I’m not here to argue about being right I’m here stating that anybody that says people don’t go that way aren’t getting the full picture

Because you can’t say people don’t build like that just because a minority of people do it you can only say people don’t do that if nobody does it, means 0% of players build liandries on rumble. I can understand that good players don’t build it because it doesn’t make sense I’m sitting here just pointing out the fact that anybody that does it in general, regardless of rank regardless of game mode

But if I could also put out my opinion on things both of you are acting the same as riot, Only looking at the 90% ignoring the opinions, Statistics, or facts of the 10%

[solar oxide]

How does this affect tyler 1 career tho

[summer jackal]

If the 90% aren’t suffering from the issue that the 10% are putting upon themselves then the 10% don’t get to pretend it’s the problem of 100%.

I’m not even saying people dont, but so few people do it’s hardly worth mention, and it as an insignificant minority should not be considered when it comes to what rumble should and shouldn’t build

[hollow rose]

@summer jackal lost cause

he doesn’t understand

that the people who choose to go shit items on rumble

are digging their own grave

and it’s not a problem on riots end

[summer jackal]

@smoky marsh you’re complaining about a problem that no one has. There isn’t much else to be said here.

[torpid hare]

this argument is actually wild

[summer jackal]

Innit?

[torpid hare]

this is just the entire thing

and its just been said over and over lmao

[summer jackal]

Because OP has bricks in their ears

[torpid hare]

you really like bricks huh

lmao

[bright pike]

Mana is a dead stat. Its huge waste of gold investment for these champions unless the passive massively outweighs the dead stat. What more be said

you CAN make a case for rumble buying an item like liandry. but there's no point.

if he really wants burn he's better off investing into an item that grants a burn + something else like health, which demonic would slot in nicely

[summer jackal]

Just a coincidence, though I play Swain so I only have so much room in my brain for varied thoughts

[summer jackal]

Ryze would like to have a word with you

[bright pike]

Ryze has mana scalings?

[torpid hare]

yep

ryze passive is like mana converts to ap or something

i think

or his r passive

idk

no one plays that champ he sucks

[bright pike]

ap = more mana which in turn is double dipping in damage

[summer jackal]

All of his basics have damage scaling based off how much mana he has

Yeah I was surprised at first too

[torpid hare]

i think its cus all of his abilities have shitty ap scalings or something?

[bright pike]

no, im aware ryze has mana scalings. i assumed you were trying to say something along the lines 'ryze only builds mana to curb his machine gun costs'

[summer jackal]

He also gets 10% bonus mana for every 100 AP he has so checks out

[bright pike]

and no ryze scalings are very good.

[torpid hare]

oh

well

idk

[summer jackal]

I wouldn’t say mana is a dump stat, some champs do genuinely like having extra mana because their spells are expensive. Granted my example used to have a mana replenishing mechanic and they have yet to make his abilities cheaper to compensate for taking it away THANKS RIOT

[torpid hare]

yeah i think like mana is a luxury

[summer jackal]

Well it’s a luxury until you have a tear item

[bright pike]

70 / 90 / 110 / 130 / 150 (+ 55% AP) (+ 2% bonus mana) Q
80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 70% AP) (+ 4% bonus mana) W
60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 45% AP) (+ 2% bonus mana) E

BONUS OVERLOAD DAMAGE:
40 / 70 / 100% R passive

[torpid hare]

especially with stuff like manaflow band

[summer jackal]

Then it’s a tool

[torpid hare]

oh gotcha he just doesnt have super high mana scaling

[summer jackal]

The numbers of Q and E aren’t bad considering one has a 2.5 second cooldown and the other has its cooldown wiped when other basics are cast.

[torpid hare]

and like idk mediocre ap scaling i thin

decent ig

[summer jackal]

Ryze also has a lot of base HP

Like a lot

[torpid hare]

tank ryze superior

[summer jackal]

Like he has 2.7K Hp at level 18 regardless of items

But I think the point skolver is going for is, no one buys mana items for the mana, the mana is just there.

[hollow rose]

wdym????? rumble buys liandries for the mana!!!

[summer jackal]

And it’s absurd that he should have to do that!

[hollow rose]

I KNOW RIGHT!! This is a problem riot needs to fix!

riot shouldn’t listen to the 97% of rumble players building nh or proto!

They need to fix this problem!

[bright pike]

Most rumble players want the passive of old liandry

they didnt care for the burn.

which makes you wonder why not go rift untill you realise rift is a doodoo item for him lol

[summer jackal]

As it is on most champs. The real argument that should be made is “why is every other mage mythic garbage for all but three champs each”

[hollow rose]

idk man basically the OP here just doesn’t understand league

[summer jackal]

I’m looking at you riftmaker, I’m looking at you crown, and im especially looking at you, Night harvester

[bright pike]

That's fine. you can provide fair reasoning without being rude.

[hollow rose]

please

kindly

scroll to the top

and read what happened when i tried

[bright pike]

Ive already read the thread. dw.

[hollow rose]

fair reasoning

then you should understand

fair reasoning

does not work

on the creature

[summer jackal]

I mean we did do that, and then they were like “yeah but you’re wrong and I’m right, you must just be stupid”

[bright pike]

then it's fair game to feed him to the wolves you animals are

[hollow rose]

“riot should listen to the .3% of players who go mana mythics on manaless champs”

it’s a problem

i gave him rumble and shyvanna item stats

and he just fucking said “those don’t matter it’s the players i play against”

“you must not go against many rumbles”

[bright pike]

sounds like another blight statement

[hollow rose]

ONG

[bright pike]

eitherway - the person will learn. or rethink their opinion.

[hollow rose]

the blightknight90 creature

yeah guys i’m gold with 2k games but let me tell you about a role i don’t play

fuck it blightknight90 is my new persona

[summer jackal]

Like this shit alone is like “do you have any idea what you’re talking about?”

[summer jackal]

Blightknight shall forever be a legend

[hollow rose]

a mistake*

i need to go play 1900 games of ranked and throw my winrate to 50%

to embrace my blightknight

so i can be knowledgeable about the game

[bright pike]

I think knowledge is universal. elo doesnt directly correlate to it. but it can be an indicator.

but his opinions were bad because he used his own experinces/biases to try and prove a point that didn't really make any sense realistically.

[timid igloo]

Rengar

[smoky marsh]

Using items that give mana on champs that dont use mana, Online Statistics are poor excuse.

there fixed the issue with logical fights, Happy?

[hollow rose]

congrats now ur post makes less sense!

good job!

you did the impossible!

[summer jackal]

You can just admit you’re wrong, I think we’d all be plenty satisfied then

And no, now the title actually makes zero sense.

Online statistics are a poor excuse for what?

[dark lantern]

where else are we supposed to get the stats from

🤨

[bright pike]

@smoky marsh can you soak this in for a quick minute then give some honest thoughts?

Mana is a dead stat. Its huge waste of gold investment for these champions unless the passive massively outweighs the dead stat. What more be said
you CAN make a case for rumble buying an item like liandry. but there's no point.
if he really wants burn he's better off investing into an item that grants a burn + something else like health, which demonic would slot in nicely

[summer jackal]

@smoky marsh and their personal experience, of course! That’s the statistics that matter!

[hollow rose]

man literally said he doesn’t want logical arguement a

kekw

[summer jackal]

His opinion and experience are law

[hollow rose]

@summer jackal you havnt faced as many rumbles as me

[smoky marsh]

Sorry I don’t prefer to bath in bulls*it so I’m not soaking anything in unless it’s a decent conversation

[summer jackal]

Oh shidd I thought this thread got deleted for a bit there.

[summer jackal]

Lemme translate: you guys aren’t agreeing with me so I’m going to pretend everything you all say is a waste of my time”

[hollow rose]

lmfaoo

he deffo wakes up and drinks his carbonated copium every morning before queueing league

he even censored his own words xDDD

[summer jackal]

Guys probably fourteen and is still convinced he’s the MC of his own little world.

[hollow rose]

no... hes convinced enemy rumble who built liandries is

because that one game matters more than the entirety of the rumble player base

[summer jackal]

[hollow rose]

building nh and proto

[gaunt marlin]

Liandries kat= shred tank

No cap

[hollow rose]

i love how league-serious is filled with this

[hollow rose]

everfrost yasuo = gaurenteed q3

no cap

[summer jackal]

This… this ain’t it

[opaque plaza]

Sunderer like word

[summer jackal]

Actually the fuck does kat build rn?

[gaunt marlin]

Anything

[hollow rose]

uh

[gaunt marlin]

Divine

[hollow rose]

she builds new keyboards

[gaunt marlin]

Rift

Nh

[hollow rose]

because she breaks hers

[gaunt marlin]

Bork

Wits

Titanic

[summer jackal]

The AP assassins have been building weird shit since overhaul. Last I saw Akali’s Ugg she was building chemtech.

[hollow rose]

honestly my fav kat build is bork sunfire titanic rageblade

ulti goes crazy

[gaunt marlin]

Nashors divine bork

[summer jackal]

Nashors into crocketbelt, that makes sense.

[hollow rose]

lets be real

manamune kat

[gaunt marlin]

Firat strike

[hollow rose]

because manaless champs have to build mana items to be good

[gaunt marlin]

Conq

Elec

Dh

[summer jackal]

I’m not gonna sugarcoat it
Moonstone swain

[gaunt marlin]

Honestly doesenr sound hoorendous

U heal

U heal others

[hollow rose]

manaless champs should be able to stack tear

[gaunt marlin]

Always in fights

[hollow rose]

imagine fimbul on aatrox

that shit would go giga

[summer jackal]

@hollow rose he’s got me blocked you?

[hollow rose]

not me 💅

AHAHAHAH @summer jackal

HE DELETED THE MSG

mf knows he made the dumbest post alive

worst than elo hell and first timing = ban

and all the darius copium

[dense vortex]

i remember old sheen / tryforce on rengar for exmaple

[weak berry]

katarina goes ludens

or atleast did

[summer jackal]

worse than Riot messed up?

[hollow rose]

I mean that's how silvers are

If it worked against me it must be right and broken

Wouldn't want my ego shattered 😭

[hollow rose]

ER rengar

[gray obsidian]

Lmaoooo I'm glad my post is known for everyone to see. Again ban was an exaggeration because I was tilted writing that

[hollow rose]

yeah it’s a textbook shitpost

glad you want to be known for that

[gray obsidian]

Hey well, I'm glad the community is willing to type back on my post

[dense vortex]

ER?

[hollow rose]

Essence reaver

[summer jackal]

well, he decided to abandon his own post

oh more than that they left the discord altogether

[hollow rose]

good they don’t belong here

they need to go to proguides or some shit

learn the game

[summer jackal]

Harsher than I’d put it, but yeah, if you’re gonna talk about shit you know nothing about then double down like you couldn’t possibly be wrong, you’re gonna get hell for it.

[torpid hare]

that might make them more confuse lmao

[dusk sentinel]

Riven was buying Essense Reaver when they made her passive able to crit

Rengar too

Viego too

[lime cloak]

I mean viego scales off crit, te CDR is nice

[hollow rose]

i mean yeah essence is only bought for the fact that it’s the only AD non mythic sheen item

it’s not bought for mana

[dusk sentinel]

sivir is buying it for mana

lucian too

[lime cloak]

Ez too

But like they use mana pretty consistent(I don’t know if sivir actually buys it)

[hollow rose]

he doesn’t buy it at all

neither does sivir

[lime cloak]

Ez’s stopped going it?

[hollow rose]

a while back yeah

lucian aswell doesn’t go er

[opaque plaza]

Lucian er is still around

As last resort

[dark lantern]

should essence reaver really be considered a mana item when it's only the passive?

and the passive isn't even really focused around mana, champs like rengar are buying it for the sheen effect lmao

[hollow rose]

@dark lantern you think ornn's passive is dog?

[dark lantern]

no??????

[hollow rose]

#league man if you read that chat

I'm dead

[dark lantern]

his passive is why he's the best scaling tank in game

[opaque plaza]

Ok what do thin fiora buy for

[hollow rose]

Can you come help me put it in a moron's mind