#Argue with me anything about Aatrox, and I'll probably argue back, part 2

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rain lintel
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if i was i dont remember

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so get fucked i beat you

weak yarrow
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I vaguely remember

stuck gulch
weak yarrow
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where was

stuck gulch
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casually steals your life

weak yarrow
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Tryndamere ult

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lul

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even then

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well

stuck gulch
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trynd ult wouldnt have won

weak yarrow
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nah, don't underestimate Sion DPS

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and Aatrox doesn't heal when Trynda is low health like that

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well

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when ulted

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because Aatrox's healing is Post-mitigation damage

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I remember last season while I was relatively new to Aatrox I dived Kayle level 6

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and was surprised I wasn't healing when she ulted

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the same applies here

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he would've potentially died if Trynda had ult

stuck gulch
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then hed proc on sion

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if he knew

weak yarrow
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still I wouldn't underestimate undead Sion's dps

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also by the time he Q3'd, if Tryndamere ulted him, they would've killed him on the spot

sonic anchor
weak yarrow
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or, if Sion Q didn't get canceled, he would've died as well

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he used Q3 on Sion before his auto killed him

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if Tryndamere ulted by the time he E'd, both Sion and Tryndamere would've killed him

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he is level 7 here

sonic anchor
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Tryndamere didn't have ult

weak yarrow
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and Q doesn't have a near 0 cooldown at this point

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yeah

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that's a problem

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I don't know why

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Tryndamere E'd after Sion died

sonic anchor
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He used it earlier in the fight

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like he got dove to tower

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and ulted

weak yarrow
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because once he gets in he's asking to die

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IF Tryndamere didn't get in, then maybe he would've died to undead Sion too

frank token
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ult form aatrox isnt dying to undead sion lol

sonic anchor
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trynd was zoned off by aatrox pull

weak yarrow
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the problem was Tryndamere got in just as Sion died

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while Sion was still in the process of becoming Undead

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he would only get 1 Triumph proc for that

sonic anchor
weak yarrow
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naw he E'd just as Sion was about to die

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don't forget Trynd's crits reduces E cooldown

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we don't get to see much of it but he was autoing minions

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still

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stupid move

stuck gulch
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actually my ranked game rn

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im malding

weak yarrow
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what am I looking at

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enemy team:

Anivia top(?)
Zed jg
MF mid(?)
Soraka ADC (?)
Sylas supp (?)

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not to mention the fact that red teams top lane is basically floored

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in fact every lane is floored

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this isn't even an Aatrox problem this is a fucking team problem

cyan void
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Fishtrox counters gp

fluid spoke
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aatrox as a champ isn't hard,
top laners just aren't used to thinking about positioning

pliant kelp
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I like Aatrox to be in the stronger side of top laners he’s on the fun side to play and go against

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If they slightly tone down his dmg that will make his dmg and healing a little bit less

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Could he enough

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After the eclipse nerf idk if his late game damage should he nerfed, like ad growth

weak yarrow
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eclipse nerf doesn't necessarily solve anything

naive harbor
pliant kelp
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What about ability cds

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Add a second on w?

weak yarrow
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well it affects Aatrox more than anyone else, but regardless as stated earlier, his laning phase is too safe am

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that necessarily won't change anything either

pliant kelp
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What about the early lvls of Q

weak yarrow
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that's just a placebo nerf

pliant kelp
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Maybe true

weak yarrow
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early levels of Q is punishing enough if well abused

pliant kelp
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Thought it would affect his set up slightly in laning

pliant kelp
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I don’t play him enough so I’m only having thoughts

weak yarrow
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you would have to add at least 4 seconds worth to visibly affect W

pliant kelp
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Damn

weak yarrow
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because remember last season W was nearly 30 seconds long before they buffed it by reducing it to 20 seconds early

pliant kelp
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What about a -10% on the bonus dmg on Q?

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Currently it’s +60%

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Thatll mostly affect the first and second one

weak yarrow
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that's just a revert to a previous buff

pliant kelp
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Oh

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I don’t know what they changed it’s been too long

weak yarrow
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I remember when they buffed W to be 20 seconds level 1 his ranking went from B > A

pliant kelp
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Actually what I would like is a small dmg decrease in late game w even if it doesn’t change much to his strength

weak yarrow
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I mean

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late game he's gonna have Maw and DD

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and those are item specific problems

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decreasing his late game damage won't do anything besides affect those items slightly

pliant kelp
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True

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But his w does a lot late I’ve noticed

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That’ll be a QoL change mostly

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I think

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It’s like 1000-1400 dmg late game which is insane if you’re squishy and he’s slightly ahead

weak yarrow
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I don't know

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it's hard to assess his late game

pliant kelp
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Yeah

weak yarrow
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because CC is such a valuable valuable stat

pliant kelp
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I think his laning is fine since he’s a skill mu

weak yarrow
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and inherently becomes more and more valuable as the game goes on

pliant kelp
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But his cc is good in all stages

weak yarrow
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since if you are even pulled by W will lead to a 60 second lack of presence

pliant kelp
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Imagine if the Q sweet spots did +100% dmg but the knock up was removed

pliant kelp
weak yarrow
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then what's the point

pliant kelp
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No idea x

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Would be a riot thing

weak yarrow
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best revert his rework knowing that Riot won't

pliant kelp
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I could’ve skipped over it but what’s your idea for a change?

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If you would like one

weak yarrow
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not much really

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I think the champ is designed well

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it's just that his kit is... too good to perform well

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which is why Riot is hesitant in giving buffs on the guy

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which is why I believe he's a less extreme version of a balance nightmare

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and this is what happens if the meta favors him a lot

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he becomes frustrating to deal with

pliant kelp
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Yeah

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That’s very true it’s the meta shift from 12.10 which let him shine

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I don’t think a core mechanic change will affect just him

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Like more anti heal items or cheaper ones

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That’ll mess up other champs too

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I’ll keep it at his scaling, that should he toned down a bit because of the items

weak yarrow
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I think the main problem right now is that he is too safe to play whilst snowballing hard when he gets a kill and gets Dirk

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I myself buy Divine Sunderer instead of Eclipse, and even then when I buy Caulfields it doesn't feel like much

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then again it could be just Aatrox skill issue

pliant kelp
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You know what they say

weak yarrow
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it's easy to abuse low eloers when you have a better grasp at top trading patterns

pliant kelp
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Aatrox is great at abusing them

weak yarrow
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indeed

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although the problem right now, as I said, is he's too safe now

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dura patch + health buffs pushed his safety for sure

pliant kelp
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-1 health

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Boom problem solved

weak yarrow
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it's basically what happened to champs like Anivia when Durability patch dropped

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he became way too safe

clever torrent
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just nerf his q cd so he doesnt chain abuse you starting lvl 5 and you actually have time to trade him

cerulean glacier
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Just nerf the champ

weak yarrow
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Q cooldown isn't necessarily the problem here

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we've seen from the durability patch how just having an increase in armor and health made champs like Kayle and Anivia way too safe

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the same is happening here

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and I believe it pushed him off at the health buffs

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tbh they should revert it or do something else

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but Q cooldown isn't one of them

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it was practically unchanged since last season

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or longer, who knows

daring widget
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Red sun

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Red sun over paradise

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Red sun

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Red sun over paradise

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Golden rays of the glorious sunshine

clever torrent
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To the shadows out of sight
Arid breeze blows across the mountains
Giving flight to the birds of prey
In the distance machines come
To transform Eden day by day

daring widget
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When the wind is slow, when the fire's hot
The vulture waits to see what rots
Oh, how pretty, all the scenery
This is nature's sacrifice
When the air blows through with a brisk attack
The reptile tail ripped from its back

clever torrent
daring widget
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Red sun

clever torrent
daring widget
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Yes

clever torrent
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I AM FUCKING INVINCIBLE

spice cobalt
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does too much damage

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lvl 5 his damage is fuckin crazy

sonic palm
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aatrox requires 0 skill

somber solstice
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Aatrox is fucking useless against champs with range+ slows / ranged champs in general

pliant kelp
somber solstice
pliant kelp
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That’s why I’m asking

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If their opinion is that his kit is easy I’d like to hear why

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Lmao

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Glacial

somber solstice
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Arcane comet? so what, deal slightly more dmg if you hit em with q 1, but then you wont hit q2 or q3 aniway cause you used q1 + dash to hit it even, and he can murder you scot free from range

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flash? both have a flash.

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Chain? with glacial agument maybe, but you lose conqueror then

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I watched aatrox played against melee champs Yes?

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since when does kennen have a slow?

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Aight lets change it. ranged champs with actual range not the pathetic range kennen got.

weak yarrow
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Aatrox's kit naturally counters ranged champions, but it does not mean you should still turn your brain off

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Kennen is one of the only champs that can unironically deal with Aatrox

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but even then that's just because he can get away easily with his speed up

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You pick Arcane comet specifically for annoying ass ranged matchups, most especially in Worlds

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in Soloq you don't assume the enemy laner will just be lower or similar skill level to you

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in Worlds you have to, and picking Conq against ranged champs makes laning hell

sly hare
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aatrox is red

pliant kelp
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ive learned

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aatrox needs a less strong mid and late game

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reduce the damage and the healing

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ran into the average aatrox that lost laning but nope he got ahead while being behind

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doesnt matter if hes behind hes still really strong

weak yarrow
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I'm not sure if it's items fault or what not

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since typically Aatrox goes Maw and DD

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which are broken items themselves, not necessarily an Aatrox specific problem

thorny sparrow
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Okay but how does Mutilator + Revive rework aatrox compare drain tank aatrox

weak yarrow
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Revive Aatrox is just one way to further fuck up his balancing

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imagine Aatrox right now with the revive

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that's one of the reasons I don't want revive to be back

nocturne island
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also yeah new-ish account, I'm transferring over from the old one because I forgot my Authy code bullshit, so it's practically gone now 🙂

cerulean glacier
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That explains the similar pfp

cerulean glacier
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I should’ve put her as my most picked

nocturne island
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yeah I'm using a new laptop that's why

cerulean glacier
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Didn’t know she was gonan be picked literally 99% of games

nocturne island
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so forgive the weird bullshit

cerulean glacier
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I was like, who’s this impostor

nocturne island
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yah

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fun

cerulean glacier
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Anyways yeah I love when aatrox 3 shots me with eclipse only when I’m like 12/5 as viego

nocturne island
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I was honestly been kinda wanting to change anyways, practically cleansing my account

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oh well

nocturne island
cerulean glacier
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I mean true, but why can he build eclipse peepocry

nocturne island
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because it's the only item that makes him actually deal damage

cerulean glacier
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Welp, hope he gets gutted back to goredrinker with eclipse nerfs

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He’s still gonna be oppressive but better him healing 10k hp in 1 fight, that 3 shotting everyone heals 5k in 1 fight

nocturne island
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eh good enough for me honestly

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Aatrox imo was an allrounded type of champ

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the problem right now he can go damage > bruiser items and be practically unkillable

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I still think it's because he snowballs too fast in the laning phase

cerulean glacier
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Reminds me of when assassins used to go goredrinker

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Now it’s bruisers going eclipse

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How the tables have turned

nocturne island
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mainly because of Durability patch

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Goredrinker Assassin meta was because Assassins get full value from Goredrinker while not having any drawbacks

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especially its spite passiv

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Durability patch made going standard bruiser mythics being barely effective

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it's all just utility or for different other purposes

agile smelt
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Love destroying aatrox players with warwick top

zealous wigeon
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Champ is busted

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Nerf him so I can stop playing him

eternal pulsar
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Aatrox is really weak and is in urgent need of buffs as he does no damage snd heals for nothing and provides 0 utillity for his team and promotes selfish playstyles that cause people to lose leading to him having a awful 49% wr

queen zephyr
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@weak yarrow arent you an aatrox main? why would you want him nerfed

naive harbor
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people who main a champ typically do want their champs nerfed so they can play it.

daring widget
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Idk man, when I play him, I can’t hit a single q for shit. Probably just a skill issue tho

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I see, maybe I’m just playing him wrong

pliant kelp
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Right now Maw gives him a 500 shield at 3 items lvl 13 which is absurd

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I saw him in worlds get a 60% health shield from Maw in R at 3-3.5 items

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That’s way too much since it also gives 10% omnivamp

thorny sparrow
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It's based on AD, aatrox probably had his ult and full conqueror stacks

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And since meta aatrox doesn't really stack hp with his main 3 items, the shield looks 60%

pliant kelp
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True

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He’s at 2600hp or so, but he does have nearly 300 armour and ~180-220 mr

naive harbor
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where the fuck is aatrox getting 300 armor or 200 mr lol

nocturne island
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I find it funny the other account is being pinged

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oh good lord the effects of forgeting your 2fa account bullshit

naive harbor
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at most with maw and around level 13 for 3 items or so he's got at most 110-120 Magic resistance. 120-140ish armor with dd/tabi

nocturne island
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the only real way Aatrox gets that amount of armor is if he's building full tank lmao

nocturne island
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you really have to practice managing your Qs and know whether or not it will hit

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can't just Q willy nilly

naive harbor
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hyperbole makes it hard to discuss a champ's strength/balance. just gonna throw that out there.
Anyway. The champion is strong and is due for some form of nerfs. but it's kind of hard to nerf the champ without making it useless in a sense since his direct strengths as a champion are also tied to his weaknesses.

nocturne island
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honestly if it weren't for the simple existence of Hyperbole I wouldn't have made the first thread in the first place

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it's even funnier when you point out the fact people were crying how oh so weak he is

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but now with the meta favoring him heavily they want this champ to burn in hell

naive harbor
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I don't think aatrox will ever be weak unless he's kalista's or azir'd if you catch my drift. his kit is super good albeit hard.

nocturne island
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that's what happens when you make a kit that's on the near edge of being a balance nightmare

nocturne island
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well

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nearly one

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but it doesn't fit

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fuck Discord

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but anyways

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Aatrox's kit is so, so fucking delicate to balance around

naive harbor
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The only thing i think that makes him a balance nightmare is his E/ E passive.

nocturne island
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it's not E imo that's problematic

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I feel like that Q is such a decisive ability in teamfights that you have to make sure he's balanced around that

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remember

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his healing is based on damage dealt

which includes the amount of people hit with Q

naive harbor
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Q is strong but the ability to reposition the q and he can cast this anytime during the q windup in tandem with other mobility spells like prowler's flash etc make it very skill expressive. this also creates a very bad feeling since it makes aatrox a very mobile juggernaut which defies the intended weaknesses of him. especially in laning. irony that he has a harder time vs. rush down champs when other juggernauts dont struggle at all

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kind of a polarizing experience and makes him so much better than his peers

nocturne island
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honestly

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I don't even know

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where to start on Aatrox right now

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I really can't think of any way in how to nerf him

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I feel like he can be too safe at times

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now I just want to point out the times in season 11

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remember the time people were like "oh dear god Grievous wounds fucking kills the guy lmao"

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yeah so like

naive harbor
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A start would be reverting his base health buffs he got a few patches ago. or touches his other defensive stats to reward players for getting in on him.

nocturne island
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that's what I'm thinking as well

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revert health buffs

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I feel like that's the tipping point

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not sure about the other defensive stats

pliant kelp
naive harbor
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champion builds at most death's dance tabi/ga which still wouldnt get you anywhere near 300 armor

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level 16 that would still amount to 207

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level 18 thats 219

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of course this can go higher if you get mountain drakes but you shouldnt account for those imo.

pliant kelp
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Let me check the match

thorny sparrow
pliant kelp
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GA Maw DD Spirit visage eclipse and tabis

thorny sparrow
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Kind of like how Darius inner Q is a reduced percentage based on the edge of his axe.

thorny sparrow
pliant kelp
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Yeah kinda?

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I was Akali

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We had blue Kayn

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Lux mid

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I had a lot of hp

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But that’s basically it

naive harbor
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the damage for non sweet spots seems ok as is seeing as the sweet spot damage is a 60% increase.

pliant kelp
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It was 500-600 or so late game

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That’s balanced I’d say

thorny sparrow
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Thanks grandpa skolver

pliant kelp
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Lmao

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I think the Ad on his R needs to go down

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And his mid to late game strength in general

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Too easy can you pick up in mid game after falling behind

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And not as in 0/10 but as in 2/7 or smth with less CS

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Where you’re not useless at all but definitely behind

naive harbor
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imo touching his Base stats is still the way to go.

thorny sparrow
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I've never really seen how base stat changes really changes a champion aside from the Jayce nerfs that one time

cloud dragon
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those scaling seems to be rly big

thorny sparrow
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Back to aatrox, just hp changes?

naive harbor
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nah, not just hp. i suggested maybe armor or mr to reward players for closing the gap on him since he wants to play the spacing game

nocturne island
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HP changes pushed him a bit

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it was imo the final straw

naive harbor
nocturne island
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I think it's best to push his ad or something a bit

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especially since it seems like the Eclipse Cleaver build that's being really problematic

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Q is his only real damaging ability, every thing else just makes it even stronger

pliant kelp
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6 sec cd

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4 sec pauze between Q1-3

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Basically infinite uses and an AA for passive

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Make the lvl 3-5 scaling lower id say

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And his Ad growth reduced by like .3 even if that’s a placebo change

naive harbor
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melee champ ad growth is typically high, like 3-5 p. level

round snow
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aatrox is cooler than mordekaiser

cerulean glacier
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No

cloud dragon
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No

daring widget
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No

south lion
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aatrox is red

daring widget
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aatrox is a low skill expression dogwater champion that people only know how to justify with the word, "dodge" oh sure i'll dodge something when he has a slow, movement speed, a dash, and a free knockup every time also he's manaless. and did i mention the part where he gets free omnivamp for existing or how building anti-heal against him is pointless because he already heals so much? or how he counters every single tank in the game cause you physically cannot duel him even with anti-heal? or how he can build eclipse while also tanking more than any assassin in the game? or how he can sit under turret and scale the whole game with zero counterplay cause he has range and a dash.

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even champions that are suppose to counter aatrox? yeah, well they don't do that! you see irelia? yeah, i cant remember the last time irelia has beat an aatrox before in my life? wanna know why? cause durr hurr redditards are like BUFF AATROX BUFF AATROX HAHAHAHAHA

nocturne island
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sir I did not ask for a #rant style response

daring widget
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sir you're not the op

nocturne island
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I am the OP

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I'm using a different account

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because the account is useless to me

daring widget
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cringe!

nocturne island
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2fa bullshit that's why

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still

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that's not what I asked for

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the only thing I agree with is the last part

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and the tank one

stuck gulch
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Volibear

rough ingot
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Aatrox uses the bodies of those he possesses and warps them into a husk of his old body, but never manages to reach a image consistent with his original form.
Which means canonically, Aatrox has, at least once, had tits

stuck gulch
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that- is hot

sharp ridge
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Pre eclipse took skill

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Post eclipse overtuned

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miss 2 of your qs but you can press r and q3 and from there the other laner struggles

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luckily I play some champions that aatrox has always struggled with

crude crag
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give him omnivamp bonuses from hitting multiple enemies with his Q knock up

lapis tide
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Only virgins play aatrox

nocturne island
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I'm not too sure about this one

red marsh
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As a former rank 1 aatrox player, people are just too bad at playing the counters, yes the champ might be a too strong now, but if you can play fiora/jax/kennen/teemo/irelia to a good level or you either lock in range (cait/viktor) he is utterly useless

nocturne island
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yeah I completely forgot that sometimes it's just skill diff, forgetting the majority of people are low elo as well

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I watch Nayil and sometimes I see he himself gets a lose streak

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and even some of his videos show him losing

red marsh
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For me when i play against aatrox i treat it more as a pattern game, like for me its really obvious when he goes for E Q harass or Q into E Q

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its important you walk into him when he goes for E 2Q

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for good trades

nocturne island
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again, I feel like he has way too high of a ban rate rn

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but as you said it might just be a skill issue

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especially in low elo where both players fundamentals are not the same as it is with High elo

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as much as I play Aatrox though, I barely encounter him, but that could just be because of my elo

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bronze III

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but when I do fight against him 9/10 someones complaining

nocturne island
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he's getting changed

rain lintel
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yeah, they're gonna take a whole 10 damage of Q3 & say its a job well done

rough ingot
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Tittrox

patent oak
rain lintel
stuck gulch
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just hit him wit the karma top

nocturne island
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the aatrox nerf doesn't do anything

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:trollge

hollow vigil
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lock in nasus or ornn or darius

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never will have a problem with aatrox again

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if he cant one shot u he cant get a ult reset, if ur riding his dick he cant 1v9 enemy team 🧠

steady stratus
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riot: "we want eclipse to be used by assassins and not by bruisers"

also riot: proceeds to reduce the stat assassins want (lethality) and increase the stat bruisers want (AD) in a "nerf" 🤓

brave rapids
hollow vigil
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actually makes the matchup pretty hard for me since i dont directly one combo a orn with all my q's, and they play for late not to win lane

brave rapids
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but in soloq this strat sucks ass

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since if ur team ints, u havent done anything good

hollow vigil