Is yummi the hardest champion in the game

[tidal lichen]

Please be serious trying to prove a pointn

[ivory heath]

Bro really made a thread to prove a joke

💀💀💀💀💀

[random wind]

Yes and no.
Let me explain...
Generally due to her viability, she is somewhat a champ that can freely sit on someone all game and press buttons.

But...

You need some level of macro on her

[tidal lichen]

Which is all she needs to do

[ivory heath]

She has advanced combos

[random wind]

she isnt hard but you're not gonna use her full potential

[tidal lichen]

Cause you never need too

[random wind]

like resetting mana and getting a shield

[ivory heath]

Like aa-q-w-r-e

[random wind]

this evolves around knowing when to jump out and when u can get it

she is easy in low elo

but as you climb you need to know these things, but ideally in higher elo. you should know these things.

[tidal lichen]

And I’m those elos jumping off can = point and click CC your dead W is on a 5 second cooldown

Cause in low elo they just let her do it for free

[random wind]

you dont need to do it low elo

it depends on the level of skill your opponents are

but she is generally not hard, but she isnt the easiest

[ivory heath]

She is hard

[tidal lichen]

But she can be the easiest if she wants to be

[ivory heath]

She has plenty of difficult combos

[ivory heath]

Anyone can be the easiest champ

[tidal lichen]

Akali?

[random wind]

not really

[tidal lichen]

Qyiana?

[ivory heath]

Just spam q and w

[cedar bear]

yuumi isnt even hard

[tidal lichen]

It’s a lot more then that bud

[cedar bear]

the hardest part about her is her early game, and thats literally just not being afk

[random wind]

yuumi isnt hard butshe isnt the easiest

[cedar bear]

shes very easy xd

[ivory heath]

I was making a joke and this guy took me seriously

[random wind]

i dontt hink yuumi is the easiest champ tho

[cedar bear]

she is

[random wind]

but she is still easy

[cedar bear]

literally past 10 mins shes afk bot

[random wind]

sona is so much more easy

[tidal lichen]

Then why do you continue defending to

[cedar bear]

not even

yuumi is way easier

[ivory heath]

Because it’s funny your still trying to prove me wrong

[random wind]

yuumi in higher elos u gotta know when to hop out

sona u just spam buttons and free stack

[cedar bear]

higher elos
that consists of 0.5% of players?

xD?

[tidal lichen]

^^^

[random wind]

so your depneding on low elo who cant function as ur data?

[cedar bear]

shes piss easy

even in high elos

she is afk bot

at 10 mins

[tidal lichen]

^^^^^

[cedar bear]

she isnt hard whatsoever

[tidal lichen]

If you think pulling off combos on her is hard

[cedar bear]

stop trying to make her seem like it

[tidal lichen]

Then play another champion

[random wind]

i never said she was hard

[cedar bear]

stop trying to make her seem harder than she rlly is*

its like trying to say annie is difficult

[ivory heath]

They rly still going at it

[random wind]

what makes sona any harder than yuumi

[ivory heath]

Lmao

[tidal lichen]

Play any other champion are you will find out they do a lot more then she does

[random wind]

im not saying shes difficult

[cedar bear]

the fact sona can still be targeted lol

[random wind]

yuumi cna just sit in one someone all game

[tidal lichen]

Any enchanters can he targetted

[cedar bear]

yuumi doesnt even count as a champion when shes on someone

[tidal lichen]

Not yummi

Yep

^^^^

[cedar bear]

she can literally sit on someone with hullbreaker

[random wind]

and yuumi is literally depending on her adc not dying or she dies

[cedar bear]

and hullbreaker be active

[tidal lichen]

@cedar bear not true

[cedar bear]

it is

go test it

[tidal lichen]

Hull breaker is disabled

Really?

[cedar bear]

unless they fixed it, its true

yup

[tidal lichen]

Every time I’ve had it happen it removed it

[cedar bear]

past 10 mins she isnt on her adc if her adc isnt fed

[cedar bear]

they may have fixed it? idk, i remember seeing it

[tidal lichen]

Yeah she’s then on her kayn/nasus/Yorick

Making them raid bosses

[random wind]

and what if ur nobody in ur team is fed

[cedar bear]

then u dont win the game

xd?

[tidal lichen]

Then she is useless

[random wind]

u dont realize htat hse has to hop off

[cedar bear]

even if u were a regular support, if no one on ur team is fed and is just inting, then the game is lost anyways

[tidal lichen]

Cause all she does is funnel you

[random wind]

her e drains her mana

u can just sit on someone and spam e or q

[tidal lichen]

Only if you build Mana

That’s why you can’t build mana mythics

[cedar bear]

her mana doesnt rlly become an issue late game

[random wind]

you literally auto to restore mana

late game sona is strong asf too

[analog blaze]

hullbreaker yuumi 💸

[cedar bear]

moonstone fixes most of yuumis issues

[random wind]

sona lategame prob better than yuumi

[cedar bear]

with mana

[ivory heath]

Once you build mana regen

[random wind]

cuz sona has stacks

[cedar bear]

yes

which is why im saying

past 10 mins

yuumi is afk bot

[brazen hound]

this moron.

Low skill floor. high ceiling.

Case closed.

[analog blaze]

oh no def

[tidal lichen]

Yeah and mana regen is 250 gold

[random wind]

ur not accounting how much mana yuumi e drains

[cedar bear]

this

[analog blaze]

i buy 3 frarie charms on first back lol

[cedar bear]

u dont even need to get to high ceiling in order to win or play yuumi properly

xd

[ivory heath]

You get roughly 4-5 e,s before your mana is gone

[tidal lichen]

Yeah and your good for the rest of lane

[ivory heath]

It takes 55 +12% mana

[tidal lichen]

Max mana

More mana

increaed cost

[ivory heath]

Then it takes more

Building mana does nothing

Building mana regen does something

[tidal lichen]

She can live off of 3 250 mana regen items support item and be good for the rest of laning

Never needing to jump off

[ivory heath]

Not rly

[analog blaze]

thats all enchanters in general tbf

[tidal lichen]

Yep

1150 gold

[ivory heath]

She needs to jump of for sheild and extra mana

[tidal lichen]

4 cheap mana regen items

Your good

[analog blaze]

i mean she should still jump off for the mana and shielding

[brazen hound]

the reward if you genuinely like the champion is well worth it. The main negative of the champion is she doesnt teach you laning like other enchanter champions do. so it's unique in that aspect. But I don't think she's an afk bot as much as shes a butt of a joke for players in low-mid elos at times.

[ivory heath]

She needs to jump of to be more viable

[analog blaze]

her passive is really all she needs if were being serious, the frarie charms just let her regen more mana passively so she can poke more and heal more

[simple wadi]

She has an extremely low skill floor, a medium skill cieling, and in order to extract 90% of the champions max EV you don’t have to be that good

[ivory heath]

@tidal lichen ong your braindead

Do you even know what her passive does

[tidal lichen]

Auto attack to gain mana and a shield

Once every 12 seconds

[ivory heath]

Yeah

She has to do that to be “more” viable

[tidal lichen]

Thing is this becomes irrelevant after first back

[ivory heath]

Not rly

[tidal lichen]

Not really

750 gold

Just buy 3 mana regen charms

Your E will be enough

[ivory heath]

You should always be hitting your support item till it hits lvl 3

[tidal lichen]

Lvl 3 your still in lane dude sitting on gold

[brazen hound]

he means hitting frost queens claim.

or whatever its renamed to now

[tidal lichen]

Yeah tell me when anyone has a hard time doing that

[ivory heath]

Ong your so dumb

[ivory heath]

I never said it’s hard

But ideally you need to be doing it

So you get more mana regen+wards+legendary item stat

[tidal lichen]

Then you should be easily able to get about 750 gold by lvl 4 and get 3 mana charms and be good for lane

As any enchanter would

“Yummi is not hard” end of story stop defending it

[ivory heath]

What’s your op.gg

I wanna see what level you are

[dark oxide]

I've argued with this guy before

[tidal lichen]

You really want to find out

[dark oxide]

Don't bother

[tidal lichen]

450

[obsidian peak]

Hi my friend :D

[ruby crypt]

you havent argued with him, youve been talking to a wall

[dark oxide]

It's a time waster

[tidal lichen]

Sett my account is my name

[dark oxide]

Any truers?

[obsidian peak]

perfect description

[obsidian peak]

+1

[tidal lichen]

And the wall is telling you yummi brain dead

[dark oxide]

what the fuck is going on

[tidal lichen]

While you come up with reasons

[obsidian peak]

she is but she has potential

to do impressiv shit

[tidal lichen]

Yummi is hard

That’s what I’m dealing with

[dark oxide]

Extremely hard

she's hard to carry with

yh

I wouldn't trust a yuumi to 1v9 games

Which enchanter can 1v9 a game?

Show me please

[tidal lichen]

Her skill gap matched champions like akali and qyiana

[dark oxide]

[tidal lichen]

According to sett here

[ivory heath]

Ong he is so braindead

[native junco]

wtf is this post

[dark oxide]

You're NPC

[dark oxide]

All I know is that a lot of enchanters have the ability to roam freely when waves are slow pushing

[tidal lichen]

Is yummi hard or not

[dark oxide]

100%

I'm not aware how well yuumi can do that

in order to influence games

[native junco]

thats such a dumb question

[ivory heath]

I made a joke and this guy took it seriously

[analog blaze]

furry sett 🤓

[tidal lichen]

It is a dumb question

[ruby crypt]

but like with comments like these, how can you even think he has more than 3 braincells?

[dark oxide]

But imo most other enchanters would have higher carry potential than yuumi

[tidal lichen]

And sett is trying to make it look hard here

[dark oxide]

Continue

[dark oxide]

me or him?

I'm interested in your knowledge

[analog blaze]

you clearly dont play yuumi top lane on hit 🤓

[dark oxide]

Can you coach me?

[native junco]

the only thing happening here is you being unable to take a joke

[tidal lichen]

Except the guy is defending it to the death

Even after 7+ told him other wise

[ivory heath]

I’m not even defending it anymore

[tidal lichen]

Then why are you even continuing

[dark oxide]

Guys I have brilliant idea

[ivory heath]

And anyways I litterally said I keep defending it because you keep thinking I’m being serious

[dark oxide]

We all click unfollow topic and move on

[tidal lichen]

Then stfu

[ivory heath]

No thanks

[native junco]

fucking league players and their ego to be right all the time 😩

[brazen hound]

To give you full context. this is a carry-over from a different thread where the topic were hyper carries, humble sett main brought up yuumi which is a hyper carry but not a direct one as was discussed in the previous thread. this guy then tries to say she isn't with some wack stuff per usual give me a moment and i can link you to the thread.

[simple wadi]

Actually now that you mention it

[dark oxide]

It's all controversial anyways

[native junco]

i would appreciate it because I dont want to end up saying shit that makes me look like a clown

[simple wadi]

What is the hardest champion in the game?

[tidal lichen]

Cause he said the champion can’t be played with feet

[dark oxide]

wait... yuumi counts as a hyper carry...?

[simple wadi]

Irelia? Nidalee?

Jayce?

[native junco]

teemo obviously

[ivory heath]

Teemo maybe

[dark oxide]

@simple wadi maybe ryze?

[tidal lichen]

Azir

[dark oxide]

he has negative win rate

[simple wadi]

eh ryze kinda braindead

[tidal lichen]

Ryze needs a rework

He’s not hard just bad

[simple wadi]

Bro I think nidalee is turbo hard

[ivory heath]

Êqeqeqrqrrqeqeq

[brazen hound]

https://discord.com/channels/125440014904590336/1004398325883219988

[tidal lichen]

She is

[brazen hound]

here's the link.

[dark oxide]

while moving

[brazen hound]

yes.

[dark oxide]

what makes her a hyper carry?

[tidal lichen]

Nidalee land spear face smash

[ivory heath]

Trust me sometimes supports carry more then the 20/0 veigar

[simple wadi]

She scales and takes over the game regardless of enemy composition

[brazen hound]

we're not discussing that again with blightknight around.

[ivory heath]

All supports are hyper carry’s

[brazen hound]

lol

just click the link for the convo

[tidal lichen]

“Akali hyper carry”

[simple wadi]

ah this convo is so boring

No but actually what’s the hardest champion in the game

Is it

[tidal lichen]

Azir

[simple wadi]

hmmmmmmm

[dark oxide]

riven?

[tidal lichen]

I would defend that all the time

[analog blaze]

enchanters*

[ivory heath]

Teemo

[simple wadi]

Nah Azir is like mid tier difficulty

[dark oxide]

Depends really

[ivory heath]

Yeah

[native junco]

any character which requires good macro and micro

ez

[simple wadi]

I think nidalee is up there

[ivory heath]

And seraphine

[cedar bear]

there are multiple champs who are contenders for hardest champ in the game

[ivory heath]

But she can litterally be the carry tho

[dark oxide]

literally everyone.

[cedar bear]

there isnt a set champ

[native junco]

not what I mean by that but okay

[dark oxide]

Zed has pretty high ceiling

Yasuo as well

[analog blaze]

vayne

[tidal lichen]

Qyiana/akali/zed

[cedar bear]

one person could say yasuo is the hardest, another could say riven, azir, etc

[ivory heath]

Aphelios is the hardest

[dark oxide]

twisted fate requires no micro and he's considered hard.

[cedar bear]

aphelios isnt difficult

[ivory heath]

On paper he is hard

[simple wadi]

lmao no

[cedar bear]

its just reading

[tidal lichen]

No

[simple wadi]

Aphelios is pretty hard

[cedar bear]

not rlly

[native junco]

hes considered hard because unless you have a team to play around you, you aint getting shit done with ur paper mache cards

[simple wadi]

and no it’s not just reading that’s cope

[cedar bear]

its just learning weapon rotations

[analog blaze]

i still dont know how we works

[cedar bear]

what weapons do

etc

[dark oxide]

it's not the team playing around you

[cedar bear]

not that hard

[dark oxide]

it's you being able to play around your team

[tidal lichen]

Trust us

It’s the opposite

For tf

[cedar bear]

but again, everyone has their own opinions on who is the hardest champ

[dark oxide]

If you can't use his ultimate you're not gonna be able to win on him

[native junco]

infact he thinks im right

which means im wrong

nvm

[dark oxide]

and his ultimate is 100% reliant on you

[cedar bear]

there is no set champ for hardest champ

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ivory heath]

But it’s just facts that on paper aphelios is the hardest

[dark oxide]

not your teammates

[tidal lichen]

Seagul

[simple wadi]

TF isn’t hard he’s just awkward

[tidal lichen]

I hope you realize

[ivory heath]

He has the most abilities in the game

[simple wadi]

Like

[tidal lichen]

How little tf does

[simple wadi]

It’s a different skill set

[tidal lichen]

In terms of dmg

[ivory heath]

Therefore he is the hardest on paper

[simple wadi]

Nah adc braindead easy role

[dark oxide]

@tidal lichen I hope you realize how much impact twisted fate's ultimate usage has on games

[simple wadi]

Just farm for 20 minutes don’t die click on enemy champions

[ivory heath]

He is the hardest champ tho

[tidal lichen]

Yeah but if nothing happens with it

[simple wadi]

What’s the big deal

[dark oxide]

if you can't use his ult the whole game you're useless

[tidal lichen]

He becomes useless

[simple wadi]

Nahhhhhhhh

Mate

[dark oxide]

that's on you

not on your team

[simple wadi]

Go play nidalee jungle

Try and win a game

And report back to me

[dark oxide]

that's on you for being bad not on your team for not playing around you

:)

[simple wadi]

Go ahead

[dark oxide]

there's a difference

Perfecting ADC game play isn't easy even though champions kinda are

It's about fundamentals

[ivory heath]

What is so hard is throwing a spear

[nova marsh]

the spear is thin

[dark oxide]

it moves like my grandma

[tidal lichen]

Tf needs his team to follow up because he does no dmg. Riot has nerfed his dmg so many times.

If his team doesn’t follow up he’s a caster minion

[nova marsh]

my grandma doesn't move at all 💀

[brazen hound]

does your definition of difficulty entail playing them perfectly?

[dark oxide]

if you ult properly everyone will follow up

if you move under their tower when they fight middle of the lane

[tidal lichen]

You think in solo Que that happens?

[dark oxide]

nobody will be able to follow you up

[dark oxide]

yeah man if you use your ult properly it happens anytime

[simple wadi]

Depends on what you mean by perfectly, like

[dark oxide]

IF YOU USE YOUR ULT PROPELRY THOUGH

[tidal lichen]

You’d be surprised

[simple wadi]

I’d have to think about it

[coarse leaf]

no but the aa and strafing needed

so hard

[simple wadi]

i would say

[coarse leaf]

she unique in that regard

[simple wadi]

Just having a reasonable amount of impact

[nova marsh]

are we still talking abt yuumi ?

[coarse leaf]

yes

[simple wadi]

To where the average person can say “this guy was the reason this team won”

[coarse leaf]

yuumi

all yuumi

kayn gets a penta from yuumi healing?

all yuumi

[tidal lichen]

@dark oxide you’d be surprised how many people in solo Que don’t realise their TF ulted

[coarse leaf]

think about it where is the penta without yuumi

[simple wadi]

Perfection obv isn’t possible but a reasonable level of play is

[brazen hound]

Nidalee. Anivia. Jayce.

[dark oxide]

who forgot to ping? :)

right

[simple wadi]

It’s weird

[tidal lichen]

TF auto pings when he ults

[dark oxide]

you need to ping in advanced?

thought about that?

[simple wadi]

Some champions are difficult at some parts of the game and eats in others

[tidal lichen]

Yes

And they still don’t answer

[simple wadi]

Like anivia is difficult

[dark oxide]

You need to let them know you're looking

[simple wadi]

I can agree

[coarse leaf]

yuumi is always difficult

[dark oxide]

yeah okay :) whatever

[tidal lichen]

And they still don’t help

[simple wadi]

But at some parts of the game she’s kinda medium level tbh

[dark oxide]

I'm not in mood to do this

[brazen hound]

every champion has their own difficulty represented in their kit.

[simple wadi]

I think nidalee is always hard

Same with Jayce

I think

[brazen hound]

or how their champion interacts within the game

[simple wadi]

Well

With Jayce in teamfights

[nova marsh]

most champs that have multiple forms are hard

[simple wadi]

You kinda just spam eq

[nova marsh]

not kayn

[simple wadi]

Ehhhhhh

Idk

[tidal lichen]

Not Rell

[nova marsh]

Rell is hard wdym

[coarse leaf]

yuumi has two forms

rell is indeed hard

one mistake and its over

[nova marsh]

if you w in with rell you are dead

if you can't fight it out

[coarse leaf]

but the right call with W you get an ace

[simple wadi]

Rell is just bad leona

Lol

[brazen hound]

that's not difficulty that's just going all in.

[nova marsh]

no

[simple wadi]

I mean she’s difficult cause she’s bad

It’s weird

[tidal lichen]

Perfect description of what Rell is

[nova marsh]

leona is just a lot more simple

[simple wadi]

I don’t get it

[tidal lichen]

Bad Leona

[nova marsh]

but rell has a lot more aoe cc than leona

[coarse leaf]

rell is more fun

[tidal lichen]

You sure about that

[nova marsh]

yes i am quite sure about that

[coarse leaf]

i think its the same amount but R has more cc

[tidal lichen]

Does she have a 1000 range aoe stun

[coarse leaf]

no a 2x short ranged one

[nova marsh]

when did i bring in range?

[dark oxide]

[coarse leaf]

if youre smart you get both E stuns off

[nova marsh]

rell has ult w and e

which can basically cc 5 people for like 2 seconds

[tidal lichen]

All incredibly easy to predict

Cause of how slow it is

[nova marsh]

that's what separates good rells from bad ones

a good rell knows when to engage

[tidal lichen]

Rell ult you just walk out of

[nova marsh]

a bad one will just w in and die

[tidal lichen]

Rell E is literally .6 seconds

[nova marsh]

i doubt you've ever played against a good rell

[tidal lichen]

And her W is so easy to predict

[tidal lichen]

Cause their all busying playing everyone else

[brazen hound]

Difficulty like in anivias case (before her mini thingie) was her spells arent particularly impressive in difficulty but came through her mana management. now her difficulty comes through a different case through spell placement as all of her spells come into play of zoning or controlling a fight entirely through use of her W & R.

[tidal lichen]

Why do you think Rell has been near Asol pick rate

[brazen hound]

You straight up cannot say something is harder then another. it's not feasible.

[nova marsh]

cause shes hard??

[tidal lichen]

No because everyone else is better then her

[coarse leaf]

• frustrating without an adc duo

[tidal lichen]

So why would I play it

[coarse leaf]

well

you know its still a game

fun

[tidal lichen]

Why do you think she’s been forgotten since her release

2 years ago

[nova marsh]

rell has a 53% wr diamond 2 plus

do you think thats weak??

[tidal lichen]

And how many people play her?

[coarse leaf]

not a lot?

but still

[nova marsh]

play rate does not mean a champ is weak or strong

[tidal lichen]

Like 0.5%

[coarse leaf]

are jayce and ryze bad bc they have a shit wr? no

people are bad at them

[tidal lichen]

It depends their win rate yes

Low pick rate can easily mean high win rates

[nova marsh]

because they are a niche champ that not everyone can play

[tidal lichen]

This is the same case with Skarner and Asol

[simple wadi]

Winrate is the average pleb statistic

[nova marsh]

which makes them hard

[dark oxide]

someone legit just said ryze is easy he just spams EQ.

[simple wadi]

It’s meant for the average person to figure out what might be good

[coarse leaf]

yup

very easy indeed

not

[tidal lichen]

?

He is

[dark oxide]

read above I won't scroll

[coarse leaf]

theres a sort of balance where usually in low elo either the player playing a hard champ is bad or people dont know how to play against it so they do decent

[mental nest]

HAHAHAHAHAAHA

[dark oxide]

So if you played him you'd be able to get diamond

right?

[coarse leaf]

yup

[simple wadi]

Well ryze is hard cause he is bad

[coarse leaf]

100%

[tidal lichen]

I said he’s easy to pilot

[simple wadi]

He’s not that difficult mechanically

[tidal lichen]

Not easy to climb with

[nova marsh]

??

[tidal lichen]

Cause he’s so bad

[dark oxide]

TF is considered hard because of how his kit works he is mechanically easy

But his kit makes him hard to pilot at max efficiency

[tidal lichen]

And because of how team relient he is

[simple wadi]

Well

[coarse leaf]

(ryze)

[dark oxide]

He can legit carry his team before team fights even start with his ultimate

[nova marsh]

this guy is literally trolling

[tidal lichen]

You sure about that

[coarse leaf]

not exactly reliant but if they know to follow your portal

[dark oxide]

he can get everyone but himself ahead through his ultiamte

[tidal lichen]

Seagul

Have you seen

[dark oxide]

Blight have you seen good twisted fate players?

[tidal lichen]

TFs damage numbers

None

[dark oxide]

or only gold twisted fate players?

If it was only gold twisted fate players you shouldn't comment

on his power levels

[tidal lichen]

Cause nobody plays him

[dark oxide]

his ability to carry is not through damage

it's purely through macro

[simple wadi]

Utility

[coarse leaf]

his utlity tho?

[simple wadi]

the word is utility

[dark oxide]

His decision making is what separates a good twisted fate from a bad twisted fate

[simple wadi]

not macro

Don’t act as if other midlaner don’t also have to farm well

Rotate to fights

Set up for objectives

[nova marsh]

a champ isn't weak just bc they have low pickrate

[simple wadi]

it’s all the same skill set

[dark oxide]

other laners have the ability to kill their laners

he doesn't

[simple wadi]

TF is just more about utility than anything else

[brazen hound]

he absolutely does.

[simple wadi]

Utility champions exist

[dark oxide]

he doesn't have the same kill threat than most other mid laners

[simple wadi]

Does galio have to kill his opponent to be useful?

[tidal lichen]

Tf is global point and click CC nothing else

[dark oxide]

solo kill

[coarse leaf]

no but thats a global gank

utility wise thats really strong

[dark oxide]

it's not rly global

[coarse leaf]

yeah ok

[tidal lichen]

But after that utility is done

[dark oxide]

it's close to it

[brazen hound]

you're thinking to linearly if that's how you view it.

[nova marsh]

it's semi global but still very strong

[coarse leaf]

but its big enough

[tidal lichen]

He’s just auto attacking

[dark oxide]

yh it's like 70% of the river

[tidal lichen]

But his autos do no dmg

[nova marsh]

he has e

q

and a point and click stun

[brazen hound]

who cares if you have a 2 second stun gold card

[tidal lichen]

That E is one of the worst abilities in the game

[coarse leaf]

^

utility

[nova marsh]

and you will normally win a 3v2

[coarse leaf]

you dont have to kill if you can lock down your opponent with your team to follow up

[dark oxide]

Who cares if you can single handedly win your teammate's lanes for them with a good ultimate and give them a kill or double kill

lmao

you deal 0 dmg

[brazen hound]

idk if you're trying to mock me or blight

[dark oxide]

not you

i'm mocking the whole twisted fate has 0 damage

discussion

[tidal lichen]

The key work is “team”

[coarse leaf]

yup

[tidal lichen]

If your team doesn’t respond

[coarse leaf]

theres his strength

[tidal lichen]

You leave yourself completely open

[coarse leaf]

stop making up scenarios in your gold matches 💀

thats why he isnt played in lower elos

[dark oxide]

Dude I've seen gold games where people reacted to shen R

[tidal lichen]

I’m not making up scenarios this is literally the case

[dark oxide]

if they react to shen R they react to twisted fate R

[coarse leaf]

ive seen some iron players do

[dark oxide]

there's no way

they don't react to tf R

[tidal lichen]

Oh that’s worse

[dark oxide]

if you just ping it

like a human being

[tidal lichen]

That’s even worse

[brazen hound]

he's played in all elos. most champions are. just nature of the game doesnt make them good.

[tidal lichen]

They don’t react to shen ult

[coarse leaf]

i see him way less in low elo

[tidal lichen]

They don’t react to tf ult

[nova marsh]

tbh tf isn't even strong atm

[tidal lichen]

Unless you ping 10 times

[tidal lichen]

He’s horrible

[dark oxide]

every gold video is just filled with paid actors okay.

[tidal lichen]

For the reasons I’ve said

Does no dmg

Is so easy to deal with

[brazen hound]

a low elo player can react to shen r or twisted fate r fine. the problem lies withing thinking proactively about it because of the ultimate generic use cases that one would think of.

[dark oxide]

TF HAS THE BEST FUCKING LOCKDOWN THE WHOLE LANING PHASE

LIKE HE CAN'T MISS HIS STUNS

[tidal lichen]

Most midlaners dunk on human

[tidal lichen]

Yeah that’s all he does

[nova marsh]

malzahar would like to intervene

[coarse leaf]

jungle can follow up on that in lane

[dark oxide]

guess what if his jungler is able to get 4 kills in mid lane and snowball

it's tf's job

[coarse leaf]

if you need a skirmish tf R is there

[dark oxide]

if his jungler got 4 kills mid lane it was tf's work

[coarse leaf]

and you can lock down opponents with the stun

snowball from it

free

[tidal lichen]

And what happens if the stun isn’t enough

[coarse leaf]

it is?

[dark oxide]

@coarse leaf screw that tf can legit ult bot level 6 and get his adc double kill if he ults at the right time

lol

[coarse leaf]

what comp has less than 2 cc abilities total

[coarse leaf]

exactly

[tidal lichen]

“At the right time”

[coarse leaf]

yup

[dark oxide]

yes game sense is needed on twisted fate

who thought

[tidal lichen]

Tell me when your bot lane is looking at pings

[coarse leaf]

you cant teleport into the enemy turret

[dark oxide]

I mean

You can but

[coarse leaf]

you can

actually

LMFAO

[dark oxide]

do you dive them?

[coarse leaf]

well that can work

[dark oxide]

Or do you teleport without wave

to die

[coarse leaf]

you can tank or do the cc and leave without explanation

[dark oxide]

like there's scenarios where that can be rly good

[coarse leaf]

true

[dark oxide]

you can even ult under your own tower

to stop dives

[coarse leaf]

yup

use it to escape

lol

[dark oxide]

the ult is flexible

you're not forced to use it in bushes

[tidal lichen]

Sentinel your playing TF 4 tower shots will kill him

He can’t tank anything

[dark oxide]

@coarse leaf I've seen tf video he ults in enemy tri bush and dives bot

[tidal lichen]

Yeah

[dark oxide]

hasta la vista baby

[coarse leaf]

ez

[dark oxide]

@coarse leaf guess what his bot had to do nothing but shove wave

[tidal lichen]

This is what mostly all TFs in solo Que do

[dark oxide]

and they shoved wave

And they got double kill

[tidal lichen]

This is what they all do

[dark oxide]

[coarse leaf]

[tidal lichen]

They ult bot five bot

[coarse leaf]

its not hard

indeed

[dark oxide]

I promise you that you've never seen a good TF player

[tidal lichen]

Give enemy bot lane double kill

[dark oxide]

I watched dopa play tf

that counts? :)

I meant in solo queue

[coarse leaf]

my friend is slowly learning him and has trouble winning lane

[tidal lichen]

Except in pro play that’s it

[coarse leaf]

but they understand the pressure of tf in general

[coarse leaf]

no?

[tidal lichen]

Your solo Que TFs are ulting next to enemy tower

[coarse leaf]

you can have good tfs in iron

theyre just way more rare

[dark oxide]

TF is bad right now anyways

[dark oxide]

they don't need to win lane

Meta sucks for him

at least not 1v1

[nova marsh]

yeah tf is not good

[coarse leaf]

correct but thats the exact explanation of tf

[nova marsh]

atm

[dark oxide]

just spam ping jungler

[nova marsh]

only thing he is used for is his gold card

[dark oxide]

perma 1v2 mid

[tidal lichen]

Meta is shit for him and riot has nerfed him so many times

[dark oxide]

you'll be able to snowball your jgl

[tidal lichen]

All that tf is a global gold card

[nova marsh]

proplay moment

[tidal lichen]

He’s just a global gold card

That’s it

[coarse leaf]

but you cant say thats good

[tidal lichen]

And pros actually respond to roams

[coarse leaf]

i think its among the best skirmish abiltiies

[tidal lichen]

It is

Don’t get me wrong

But like I said r

Riot has nerfed him

So many times

[dark oxide]

everyone responds to fucking roams if you ping them in advanced

[tidal lichen]

To where that’s all he does

[dark oxide]

everyone

[tidal lichen]

In solo que?

[coarse leaf]

yeah hes worse but his utility will remain the same until they rework or hard nerf it

[tidal lichen]

You sure about that

[dark oxide]

don't compare your games to everyone's experience

pls

[coarse leaf]

jayce is the same but micro

[tidal lichen]

And want to know what’s worse

His itemization is so bad

[dark oxide]

everfrost longer lock down

into gold card

mh

[tidal lichen]

But he needs to get in melee range

[coarse leaf]

yes.

he doesnt

[dark oxide]

everfrost is ranged

lol

[tidal lichen]

400

[coarse leaf]

you can throw your stun then walk into everfrost range

[dark oxide]

400 is good enough

[nova marsh]

he can use gold card then everfrost

[tidal lichen]

What happens after that where’s off

[dark oxide]

isn't this what you're supposed to do?

[tidal lichen]

He’s just autoing

Yes

[nova marsh]

but again after that he is useless

[tidal lichen]

Exactly

[nova marsh]

until next gold card

[tidal lichen]

That’s why he’s so bad

[coarse leaf]

he doesnt do that in all ins he does that for a gank setup or R play

[tidal lichen]

Once those are used he’s autoing with base damage

[dark oxide]

if he has cdr build his gold card should be up very soon

[tidal lichen]

Which he has none of

[coarse leaf]

jungle has to be more careful about mid lane and gank more but he can make that gank so easy

[dark oxide]

cdr is ability haste

right?

[tidal lichen]

Yea

[coarse leaf]

yes

[dark oxide]

I remember seeing it in a guide

kk

[tidal lichen]

But he doesn’t build any

[nova marsh]

after a stun everfrost it takes another 2 seconds for next goldcard

[tidal lichen]

He doesn’t build any

[steel nymph]

she bangs hard

[tidal lichen]

Cause of his items

[dark oxide]

2 seconds is rly not that much of being "useless"

[steel nymph]

she banging m-

[tidal lichen]

Everfrost/rapid fire cannon/lichbane

Are his items

That’s it

[dark oxide]

Why would you build this in durability patch?

[nova marsh]

ok but after those 2 seconds it's gonna take like 6 seconds for next gold card bc he won't have everfrost to chain cc

[tidal lichen]

That’s tf’s items

That’s why he’s so bad

He can’t build anything else

[dark oxide]

ionian boots?

zhonya

[coarse leaf]

zyonya boots

when

[tidal lichen]

Ok those 2 yes

But those 3 items

[dark oxide]

ability haste

[tidal lichen]

Are what he builds

[nova marsh]

even with ionia boots it might be like 5 seconds or something

[tidal lichen]

All the time

[dark oxide]

it's below 5

[nova marsh]

but tf is forced into everfrost rapidfire

[dark oxide]

I mean if you guys watched what dopa goes in some games :)

[tidal lichen]

Everfrost rapid lichbane hourglass

Boots

That’s his times

[dark oxide]

lost chapter + seekers+boots+darkseal

[tidal lichen]

He can’t builds anything else

[dark oxide]

Dopa is playing Orianna and Viktor for a reason nowadays

that's how he ended last game I've seen

[tidal lichen]

I’m terms of legendary items

[brazen hound]

blight. im going to ask you one last question before making a final call. I'd appreciate a fully honest answer.

What's your view of the game and its entirity?

[tidal lichen]

I think league right now is in a very bad state in terms of the meta

Riot does nothing but buff dmg

[nova marsh]

uhh

[dark oxide]

I personally consider this game to be mostly about efficiency and decision making.

[brazen hound]

That isnt the question.

[tidal lichen]

Even after durabity patch

They are back to buffing dmg

[nova marsh]

tbf "what's your view of the game" is very vague

[dark oxide]

One's ability to react efficiently to information given to them and the ability to take the proper decisions each game is what separates the top from the bottom imo @brazen hound

[tidal lichen]

Theirs too much dmg in the game

The durability patch was a failure

[dark oxide]

Disagree

[nova marsh]

durability patch was amazing

[tidal lichen]

It made so many champions no longer meta

[nova marsh]

deserved

[tidal lichen]

Tank supports?

Ap assasins

Ad assassins

Other tanks

[nova marsh]

i am glad assassins are gone

[tidal lichen]

But guess their doing soon

Bringing them back

[dark oxide]

they're just buffing energy champions

lol

[nova marsh]

and we had tank support meta for a very long time like a season back

[tidal lichen]

Cause they realised they fucked up

[brazen hound]

Allow me to clarify. What's your view on the game and how it's played as a whole.

[tidal lichen]

Cause they refused to buff enchanter items

And kept nerfing them

[dark oxide]

in depth or?

[tidal lichen]

When they were fine

[nova marsh]

yeah? so whats wrong with enchanters being more meta now?

[brazen hound]

Yes. very much So in depth.

[dark oxide]

blight only?

[tidal lichen]

Skolver

I literally answered that

Too much dmg in the game

[brazen hound]

you haven't answered that

[tidal lichen]

Durability patch was a failure to fix the issues

[nova marsh]

he reiterated the question

[dark oxide]

@tidal lichen that's not how the game is played

you don't play the game through too much dmg

[nova marsh]

also i'd say durability patch was a success

[tidal lichen]

Ok I’m depth

Here I go

Adc’s still do too much dmg

Even against tanks with 300+ armor

[dark oxide]

Blight are you misunderstanding the question asked?

how do you think the game should be played not in what state you think the game is

[tidal lichen]

Let me finish

[dark oxide]

talking about damage and defensive values is part of "the state of the game" not "how it should be played"

[tidal lichen]

Tanks feel misserable late game cause they can’t answer % damage items asside from building more health

Mages are stuck relying on mana all game

And can’t sustain themselves

Supports are too strong of a role

But have the worst income

And junglers are blamed to much for everything

Even things that are not even their control

Top lane is to much of a island

Because dragon value is definition of power creep

Just look at 12.14 case in point

[dark oxide]

lost chapter

[tidal lichen]

Yeah that’s the only answer

[dark oxide]

tear

[nova marsh]

i think he wants mana pot back

[dark oxide]

we have corrupting

potion

[nova marsh]

even tho they buffed the mana on like every single mage

[tidal lichen]

I do

[dark oxide]

75 mana per usage

has 3 usages

[tidal lichen]

Mana pots were fine

[dark oxide]

they did?

[tidal lichen]

No reason to remove them

[nova marsh]

i'm p sure they added that somewhere in durability patch

[tidal lichen]

It still wasn’t enough

[tidal lichen]

For a few champs

Yes

[dark oxide]

@tidal lichen how do you know if I may ask?

[tidal lichen]

Not all of them

[dark oxide]

How do you know it wasn't enough?

[nova marsh]

cause obviously their spells will do less damage so they need more mana to cast it

[dark oxide]

You said how xerath is the most mana hungry champion and he can't Q more than 3,4 times

without going oom

[tidal lichen]

Cause they are still stuck in lane getting 1300 gold for lost chapter

[dark oxide]

and then you've been shown a 2k LP xerath hard stomp a katarina using 5% of his mana to take 80% of her hp bar

[tidal lichen]

Cause they have the worst mythic component

[dark oxide]

lost chapter is a bad component?

[tidal lichen]

Out of all classes

[dark oxide]

since when?

[tidal lichen]

Compare lost chapter

[dark oxide]

it sounds stupidly good for what mages want to do

[tidal lichen]

To all the other mythic components

[dark oxide]

Lost chapter has legit best synergy

with what mages want to do

which is USE SPELLS

[tidal lichen]

And doesn’t build into anything but mythics

[dark oxide]

which is good?

[tidal lichen]

Look at serrated dirk

[brazen hound]

mana management is very much a real skill for players to learn and overcome.

[tidal lichen]

Want to know what all assasin items consist of

[nova marsh]

also we have runes to help with mana now

[dark oxide]

mana crystal is built into every mage item

dude

mana crystal gives them max mana still

[tidal lichen]

Want to know what all assassin items build out of?

[dark oxide]

if they have lost chapter

they don't need more mana

[tidal lichen]

Long swords

[dark oxide]

their mana sustain is enough

[dark oxide]

and you know which items scale harder?

mage items

:)

what's your point

[nova marsh]

what's the point?

[tidal lichen]

100% of assasins items are just long swords built into serrated durk war hammer

[dark oxide]

100% of the mages are able to outscale assassins

[brazen hound]

Blightknight. how old are you? Because as it stands you either have some form of ADHD or ADD and in your twenties or below the age of 18. which i think you're to young to have a solid opinion on the state of this game with a lot of the arguments youve tried to start and made on previous topics.

[dark oxide]

100% of the mages solve their mana issues after lost chapter

[nova marsh]

mages build ap in lost chapter

[tidal lichen]

My point is mages arguebly have the worst early game scaling

[dark oxide]

100% of the mages are able to manage their mana

[tidal lichen]

Cause they only have 1 option

[nova marsh]

thats by design

[tidal lichen]

Which I agree

What I don’t agree with

[dark oxide]

A mage is not supposed to fucking nuke you early man

they already win every late game

[tidal lichen]

Is them only having 1 option

[dark oxide]

into assassins

why would you let them shit on assassins at all stages

[nova marsh]

all assassins basically rush dirk

[dark oxide]

what lost chapter first back? they're not forced to go that

[tidal lichen]

I’m not saying let them shot on assasins

[dark oxide]

they go that because it makes their life easier

you're not by any means forced to got lost chapter

you can go blasting > double book

[nova marsh]

all adc's go noonquiver (except kog)

[dark oxide]

and then finish your mythic

[tidal lichen]

I’m saying let them build more then 1 build patterns

[tidal lichen]

Adc have the best mythics out of everyone

[dark oxide]

even kog'maw goes that cause he goes shieldbow

sometimes

[tidal lichen]

Adc have the best mythics and mythic components argueably

All 3 of them are good for what they don

[dark oxide]

bruisers are able to get an item that heals 60% of their hp bar if they get enemies clustered up

[tidal lichen]

However some of the brusiers don’t want those items

Or can’t build them because it hurts other parts of their kit

[dark oxide]

Almost every bruiser can go that item if situation calls for it

[tidal lichen]

If you want gore drinker

But cant build it because your a sheen champion

[nova marsh]

tbf someone with adhd can have a solid view on the game but getting them to switch topics will be hard

[tidal lichen]

Then your pigeon holded into a mythic choice

To me mythics are a failure

[brazen hound]

Topic doesn't matter. the point is the scatterbrained opinions on the subject at hand.

[tidal lichen]

And you shouldn’t have item restrictions based on a purchase you made

[brazen hound]

like bouncing from a bard mid comparison to janna top.

[dark oxide]

you can go ER if you rly want sheen

yorick who you could argue wants sheen doesn't always go sheen

[nova marsh]

thats just going on tangents

[dark oxide]

he also goes lethality

[tidal lichen]

Yeah but lose they lose gold value

Cause they don’t build crit

[dark oxide]

guess what when they're able to heal 60% of goredrinker that loss becomes a profit

[brazen hound]

im referring to trying to use something that happened for a completely different reason to justify something else.

[dark oxide]

Yorick wants sheen

you see yorick players go lethality

why do they go lethality if they want sheen hmmm?

[nova marsh]

yeah ig but he also might not even been trying to answer the question

[dark oxide]

who do kayn players go gore on assassin form @tidal lichen

they're playing an assassin who wants to one shot

they go gore drinker

[tidal lichen]

Then their trolling

[dark oxide]

they'd lose value right? because they lose the potential to one shot

[dark oxide]

it's totally not the item being giga good

yeah

sure

[tidal lichen]

On blue kayn?

[dark oxide]

on both

kayns

[tidal lichen]

The guy who doesn’t want extended trades

All blue kayn wants to do is 1 shot you and repeat on another target

Not take extended fights

[dark oxide]

they still go gore on kayn

when he goes the I go through wall use W and I run away

[tidal lichen]

Gore just allows him to have sustain

And be tanky

[dark oxide]

I didn't say it doesn't do that

[tidal lichen]

Like he would with Rhaast

[dark oxide]

they go gore

on a champion who wants to simply

one shot

and get out

[tidal lichen]

Then build a lethality mythic

[dark oxide]

they build non lethality on an assassin playstyle.

[tidal lichen]

Like eclipse

[dark oxide]

They build gore instead of a lethality mythic because gore is just that good

in some games

[tidal lichen]

On Rhaast not blue kayn bud

[dark oxide]

no they do it on blue kayn too when the games are right

[tidal lichen]

And why are you playing blue kayn

[dark oxide]

just gotta be the right one

[tidal lichen]

It’s been nerfed so many times

Cause of people not building full dmg

And building bruiser items instead

To tell them to stop doing it

Also in a perfect game I wouldn’t want champions to build items they should never build.

That’s where item restrictions are fine

[tidal lichen]

If I was in control of game balance. You would be restricted 1 purchase of each legendary/mythic item.

You could build titanic and ravenous hydra.

However you wouldn’t be able to build items from other classes.

Or items you had no ratios for.

I would remove ratios for champs that made no sence. Why do you think Vi still has a ap ratio on her E.

I would change those ratios to rather help those champions with what they already build.

And remove the whole mythic thing entirely like how items were in season 10 before

And not allow champions that can’t build items to build them in the first place.

Example: Darius can’t build ap items the game just wouldn’t allow him too

Like how Runaans is with melee champions

This would make balancing the game 10x easier so you no longer haft to worry about builds

Popping out of no where ruining a champions balance and nerfing for them because of those items

Why do you think i did before and after about champions building tank mythics on non tanks

Or better yet ap items on tanks

Example full ap maokai and zac

If your champion is a tank you build tank items. That the community agreed are tank items.

If your a bruiser you build items the community agrees are your items

Etc etc with supports adc mages

Assasins

Builds don’t just become the norm because 1 person tried it for fun, and now is the norm. Which is happening now with sunfire for no reason at all

Even after the nerfs to make it so tanks can only build it

People think it’s good on non tanks. Like adc’s

@brazen hound does that answer your question of how I would have the game?

[tidal lichen]

I don’t maybe when someone is constantly saying this isn’t good. When many people who blindly think it is. Should you realise the one person may be right about that.

Case in point sunfire on adc’s

[tidal lichen]

And anyone who blindly following these “builds” clearly turned their brain off and said if high elo recommends it this is the norm now.

Also joking that I have adhd and add. Really you really serious.