#Anyone else feels enchanter nerfs were way too much??

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

plain crypt
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They absolutely GUTTED moonstone removing heal n shield power stack, took heal and shield power off EVERY item which with 4 legendary items takes off 10+%
Not only that they also nerfed support ap ratios. Whats the point anymore?? the only supports gonna do well are agressive ones

inland shadow
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Time for mage support meta

plain crypt
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Yeah it's just gonna be mages, mandate and engage

narrow smelt
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they didnt touch any of the enchanter item ap ratios did they?

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i swear it was only the Healing and shielding power. And moonstone healing.

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but i agree huge nerf for enchanters

plain crypt
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Yuumi nerf ratio

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Sera akso

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Weird for senna cause the notes says they want to stop the carry builds being strong at supporting... Like do you want her to be a sp or not

narrow smelt
narrow smelt
narrow smelt
plain crypt
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Didn't feel completely busted

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Sorry I meant sera***

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They needed sera w scaling

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Didn't touch any other ability

narrow smelt
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When as the primary carry shes broken

plain crypt
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Nerfed*

narrow smelt
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i guess people were tired of empower W healing so much health

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which is what a empowred ability does

plain crypt
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It's just weird cause they've nerfed moon healing and her w so why would anyone play her support now

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Might as well be a made

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Mage

narrow smelt
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When honestly seraphine mid if you know what your doing

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is ffing stupid

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one of the best lyandries abusers in the game

plain crypt
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It feels like every time she's strong they see that and nerf the roles she's not strong in

narrow smelt
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When mid lane is argueably her strongest role

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For those that do play it, myself included. Lyandires rylais broken combo on her

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E is perma root stuns

plain crypt
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I feel like it's the player base and preference which it's weird that riot consistently want ignore that

narrow smelt
plain crypt
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It feels like a taliyah jungle mid sup situation where they have no idea what they're doing or want

narrow smelt
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Probably to sell her skins

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at most

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Still only the 1 tricks play her

plain crypt
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I feel like if they wanted more skins sold they'd at least keep her playable sup but it's just repeated forcing her mid

narrow smelt
vestal sigil
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taliyah is pretty common in high elo

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one of the more picked jgs

echo wharf
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enchanters just went from being overpowered to slightly less overpowered, calm ur horses. Mage supports are still in a worse position now than before the durability patch

vestal sigil
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mages were already bad before dura patch

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and sup mages that weren't lux have just been extremely weak

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they have 0 gold to do anything with and all enchanters need is their mythic to be relevant the entire game

karmic shore
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No. Enchanters have been strong for a very long time.

narrow smelt
bright stone
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lol no

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enchanters most broken champion class in the game for way too long

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and they are still better than other supports atm with the limited sample we have

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so no

daring tiger
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champ is way better midlaner atm

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not playing her mid is useless

vestal sigil
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she's played in both

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she got reworked to be more mid orientated but her jg is still very good with the q stun

daring tiger
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even then is it that much more higher than average

unique abyss
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: O TALIYAJ

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I love her in support

fringe forum
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The enchanter nerfs were not too much Laughs while drinking egirI tears

wheat tinsel
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good.

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enchanter meta is aids to play in

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mage supp meta is also aids

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i miss engage supp

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takes way more skill and a lot more fun ti play in

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im so sick of 55% wr sona yuumi janna lulu karma serapine soraka nami

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its so fucking boring to play vs, with, see in pro play

thick ingot
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if mage supp become meta engage supps will also be meta cus they are good vs the mages

livid thorn
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the argue for seraphine being bad now is dumb because she isn’t even an enchanter, her only enchanter ability is a fucking 30 second cd

inland shadow
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Enchanters are better, any day

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Engage supports just means more brain dead players getting boosted because all they need to do is go in

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oooga booga I flash E as Leona
I'm so skillfull
zzzzz

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Atleast when you are playing Enchanters
You need to position as well as an adc

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and don't get rewarded for playing like a monkey

left oasis
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No, its finally time for the egirls to not be meta for 10 years straight

steady hill
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No, items were busted, I climbed through quite some ranks playing moonstone, staff of flowing water ap junglers last season. Time for enchanter boosted supports to grow hands and learn the game

left oasis
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wow u used ur aoe back to full hp heal

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congrats

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plus enchanters are usually for peel, and thats the most boring thing ever in esports

left oasis
brittle garnet
feral harness
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no

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moonstone is still good

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janna is still stupidly strong

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and soraka sona are still fine

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their utility don't necessarily tie to items

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the meta is probably more shifted to champions like pyke and blitzcrank

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but in no way are they pushed out of relevancy

last path
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i think anyone who thinks the enchanter item nerfs were unjustified is forgetting the state that engage supps were left in after the durability patch esspecailly leona who still is barely playable

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and saying that engage support take no skill is just not true

narrow smelt
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@last path 100% true

narrow smelt
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And people just pic him because they think he’s good.

When almost all the hook supports are better then him now.

Riot keeps burning his list so he’s lost going for the people who think he’s still good.

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The only thing that is keeping him barely relevant is his utility but even with him being forced to build full dmg.

Does no dmg

last path
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i mean personally as is i think that the meta is becomeing alot more healthy for supports

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and your not just at a disadvantage if you dont have a moonstone enchanter to match the enemys enchanter

wheat tinsel
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i just want u to tell me engage supps take less skill than enchanter

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so i can understand i read ur messages correctly

inland shadow
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Never a joke

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Engage supports is the most braindead role in the game

wheat tinsel
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what? i was trying to have u tell me that

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bce i want to make sure u really said that

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okay, now explain to me how a lulu sitting back doing nothing but shielding a player is more skill than someone who has to actually land abilities and roam the map early game takes more skill

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while also just getting outscaled

inland shadow
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Rewarded for being a monkey

wheat tinsel
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how is it being a monkey?

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so, the viktor playing csing for 200 minutes just to 1 shot takes more skill than the proactive assassin mid laner?

inland shadow
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Wait let me respond once I get home

wheat tinsel
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are u going to tell me this unironically?

inland shadow
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I can't type on phone

wheat tinsel
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are u incapable of thinking as well bce this is fucking bonkers

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and hard cope, sounds like ur an enchanter player

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i cant believe u exist wtf

inland shadow
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I'm fine with arguing

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But you need to relax

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Bad day at work or something?

wheat tinsel
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ok fair im being a bit mean, just this kind of opinion is insane

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i just rly hate enchanter meta in every fashion

livid thorn
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love a bit of enchanters

wheat tinsel
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very unskilled and very boring to play vs and as lol

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enchanters will always be somewhat relevant, but when they outclass engage supps in every aspect of the game unless the engage supp is 20x their skill level its really shit to watch and play

livid thorn
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i play enchanters 24/7

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and enjoy it

wheat tinsel
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and whats worse is seeing thresh/blitz players relegate to pyke and some naut but seeing them play pyke is cringe, pyke isnt an engage supp and but is "used" as one in the same sense that they have the same early game power as those engage supps previously stated

bright stone
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engage supports need to learn roaming and when to engage but enchanters can afk walk bot and just stand behind adc spamming 1 key

wheat tinsel
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^

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u dont need to think on enchanter supp

livid thorn
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so ur saying

wheat tinsel
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im sorry but the class of champs u play is unskilled

livid thorn
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enchanter supports dont roam or what

wheat tinsel
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they dont need to

bright stone
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u dont need to

wheat tinsel
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in order to be releveant

bright stone
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to climb

wheat tinsel
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relevant*

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yes

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ofc a good support player roams

livid thorn
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thats what separates good supports from okay ones though

wheat tinsel
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but its not necessary in order to climb

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ok and even when they roam

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HOW can they fuck up the roam??

livid thorn
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thats some hard cope lol

wheat tinsel
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u just press two buttons on someone and thats it

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like on ur ellies

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allies*

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nami ew, lulu ew MAYBE q, soraka just heals and point and click e, q is nice to land but not necessary, yuumi XD, seraphine is overloaded and hitboxes are wonky (but can argue u actually have to land abilities to be useful kinda?)

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sona is easy as fuck

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the only thing maybe difficult about sona is her late game passive usage

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and thats it lol

livid thorn
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idk i play janna

livid thorn
wheat tinsel
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i mean janna has just always been a good champ

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bce shes an enchanter who can roam

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janna takes prob the most skill out of all the enchanters

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if u dont include rakan as an enchanter

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but shes still an enchanter lol

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so she still prints lp

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but she can very easily be a useless enchanter

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nami also takes more skill than the previously stated enchanters bce u "fall off" in comparison to other enchanters and her q is rly hard to land

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and a good nami player rly rly shows

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but the bare minimum to be useful on her is rly easy

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heres my conclusion on it bce i cant ignore some facts: a good enchanter player is kinda nice to have on ur team, its just like having any other good player, but its still prob the most thing to play vs and with in comparison to having a good player on like engage supp or even mage supp, its senna level of uninteractive and zzz. there are good players who play enchanters but its so far in between its unnoticed. its really easy to be bad on enchanters and still just get free lp lol

vapid spoke
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im glad its nerfe

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fuck enchanters

fierce pike
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lulu crying rn

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maybe if they buff lux she might become a more popular pick again

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right now its just sad lux mains who are 2nd pick support

inland shadow
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Generally boils down to

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Skillshots

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and

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Roaming

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I agree that the mechanical accuracy of engage supports is at a slightly more important skillset requirement for most engage supports

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while there are enchanters that heavily depend on accurate skillshot usage

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not all of them are, so I do understand that point

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But roaming is not a skillset that is limited for

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engage supports only

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I don't understand why players think that enchanters need to play for lane only

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But if you take a look at any good support player

livid thorn
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Doesn't every support like... leave lane when wave is slow pushing into their adc because they won't be able to do anything until it gets close to tower...?

inland shadow
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You will notice that they roam a lot

livid thorn
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isn't that what you have to do?

inland shadow
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Exactly

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I don't understand this sentiment of

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only engage supports roam

livid thorn
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I see it like in top lane where you shove 3 waves and then you roam mid

inland shadow
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when in fact, this is just a low elo specific issue of enchanter players

livid thorn
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or do anything else

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because you can't sit in front of their tower asking to be ganked

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And u waste time afking in lane

livid thorn
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League feels like a game of efficiency for me personally

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it's about how well you efficiently influence the game and how efficiently you react to the information given in order to get the best outcomes

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imo

inland shadow
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One thing that also makes me believe that playing enchanters is harder than engage supports is because
of how little agency they have in the early game, so in low elo

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It's really easy to play back and scale and win

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But when you get to higher elos

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Because of how it is harder to have agency as an enchanter

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The opportunities to create leads is smaller

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So reason why I call engage supports, monkey champs

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is because their champ is really forgiving

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while controlling a large part of the early game

livid thorn
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I'll be honest my brain can't allow me to understand how to play with an enchanter on my side... I kinda let them do their thing and if they have a stun I go in

inland shadow
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I'm speaking from the perspective of last year btw
when engage supports were much more meta than currently

livid thorn
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I can't rly talk about which is harder though all I know is that almost every video I've seen had supports roam everytime waves were slow pushing back into them so I'm not of much help

inland shadow
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lol all good

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It's just a perspective I had with the game

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That is controversial

livid thorn
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I do think engage are a lot easier because even someone brain damaged like me can react to a hook

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and follow up

livid thorn
verbal topaz
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I don't think Riot likes enchanters much to begin with because their identity is very anti-aggression. If you look at the last patch, there was a bunch of changes directed specifically at the early game being too hard to snowball due to aggressive play being harder to capitalize on due to the durability patch.

The durability patch naturally made enchanters much much better in addition to making assassins disproportionally worse due to being a heavily aggressive and snowball reliant class, so no, I don't think the enchanter nerfs were overkill.

last path
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and there really forgiving cause you have that scaling

wheat tinsel
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Because you just scale into a powerhouse

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And enchanter players get inflated bce of this

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Might even die 4 times in lane who cared

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Cares*

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Just scales for free

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And it's aids to see enchanter top, enchanter mid, enchanter fucking bot/supp

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It's unskilled

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U don't see double engage bot lane lmfao just sit back go down cs and win for free

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Everyone hates the tank man for a reason

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Every adc hates laning with them, every supp hates laning with him when he's autofilled bot, everyone hates laning vs him

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Even a player like lathyrus who's a bard otp gets more respect than any enchanter player

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Bce at least bard takes more skill lmfao

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Low elo enchanter champs are weaker IMO bce less likely to 1v9 but in higher elo

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Sure u can roam right? But what if u just don't. U still win anyway lol

inland shadow
# last path you do know all enchaters can control lane into a engage matchup simpley cause f...

If we are going to group every support role as the same, generally it's a rock paper scissors game of mage > engage > enchanter > mage.

But it's not that simple, and it's going to be champion dependant. Janna will counter Leona, but doesn't counter Thresh. Soraka counters Pyke but loses to Leona. Sona and Yuumi loses to everyone.

Further on the point of nuance of not lane, the bot lane is controlled by the better support player despite counters. A good engage support will be able to keep up in level and hp and all in when given the opportunity.

All enchanters and mage supports have a pattern of when they use abilities. You can use that to recognize when to go in.
Because if they don’t use abilities, that means u can get easy prio. Which means free roams.

It's not as black and white and you explain it.

inland shadow
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I would disagree

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High elo enchanters don't just sit back and get a little behind to win

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They must be proactive

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The high elo engage sup knows how to execute plays, and there’s really little you can do about it in the early and even mid game sometimes

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If you sit back as the enchanter, then you are abandoning your ADC and mid laner to fend for themselves

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And you will lose all drags

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In low elo, engage supports are not skilled at using their agency and don't generate much leads

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So it's easier to enchanters to just scale for free

inland shadow
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Solo lane enchanters

livid thorn
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wtf is going on?

last path
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and with the durability patch enchanters became low risk high reward

inland shadow
livid thorn
last path
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and engage supports became high risk low reward

inland shadow
last path
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huh

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thats the convo i join on

inland shadow
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"you do know all enchaters can control lane into a engage matchup simpley cause flash exists"

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I mean that's fine, at least you conceded that weird stance

last path
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i mean

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enchanters can onl yplay the lane with flash up

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if they have it up they can be really oppresive

inland shadow
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I think you are overestimating how strong enchanters are in lane

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It's the equivalent of melee vs ranged in mid lane

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Yes, you will be poked out

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But if you play well, you won't be that low from pokes

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And the ranged player must play the lane very well or will be punished

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From either positional or vision mistakes

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If you just ping pong the wave, of course the ranged champion will have an advantage

livid thorn
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imagine wave is frozen against someone like soraka and nautilus is ready to jump catConcern

last path
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and if so what is your rank so ik what perspective this is comeing from

inland shadow
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You haven't made a single argument to anything I have made

sly wraith
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i dont think you understand the game

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having flash is great but its not needed at all

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enchanters are designed to have the ability to peel people away if needed aswell

inland shadow
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Also further on the flash point, just because you have flash doesn't mean you will survive lane
Can you flash Leona flash e? Maybe, but it's not exactly easy when you don't have vision on Leona.

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And let's say you do flash the Leona Flash E

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That measn they can't play the lane for 5 minutes

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That's an insane window for opportunity to make plays in and outside the lane

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Assuming that both supports are the same skill level, enchanters can't play the lane for free

steady hill
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Enchanters are braindead sit behind adc and press shield on cd except in high elo. Or even better yuumi sitting on adc watching netflix and coming back to keyboard every 30 min to queue again

cyan crest
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and sera nerfs were needed, she was a triple flex and had a 52%+ wr in every role she could be flexed in

bright stone
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enchanters are easier than engage until like 200lp masters

sly wraith
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hmm @bright stone i think they are the same

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i dont think it makes much of a difference

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both classes of supports have cons and pro's

bright stone
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any elo where there isnt pressure to match every enemy play = enchanters are easier

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IMO

sly wraith
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well i think they are balanced good rn after last update

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enchanters have been strong for a long time

bright stone
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i agree

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there are some outliers tho

cyan crest
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how's renata, janna wr looking rn

bright stone
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^

sly wraith
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it can be rather annoying getting hard out-traded by nami early game

cyan crest
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i know renata been sitting at a 52% wr for ages

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same with janna

sly wraith
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janna atleast is one of the more skillful enchanters

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she takes a lot more skill

cyan crest
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only skill expression i would say is her q

sly wraith
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yes and correctly roaming is the biggest skill to learn correctly

cyan crest
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that's all of support

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wave management and roam timers

sly wraith
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it's not, because janna has a lot less forgive fullness

bright stone
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hard disagree

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more movespeed and ability to rotate faster etc = roams are more forgiving

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and when it comes to plays she is also less killable

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so she is more forgiving in that sense as well

sly wraith
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hmm, problem i find is that janna doesnt have as good engage as other roaming supports tho

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so its much easier to fail gank a lane compared to others atleast

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im just glad nami isnt as strong, because that was really annoying to deal with.

last path
sacred flint
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Lol cope

sacred flint
wispy spade
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Please buff yuumi soraka!

cyan crest
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no

bright stone
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no

inland shadow
last path
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wait what

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now im jsut confused

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still ahvent told me rank

rancid matrix
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Yall coping lol, most of the enchanters still have over 50%wr except for like yuumi, who honestly deserves like a 20% wr considering u have to use less than 20% of the skill required to pilot other champions.

fringe forum
wheat tinsel
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and no it hasnt

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lol enchanter mid is still very much alive, maybe not top

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seraphine and karma are in half of my lobbies mid lane

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so

narrow smelt
narrow smelt
wheat tinsel
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okay so?

narrow smelt
narrow smelt
inland shadow
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Karma has a 0.45% pickrate

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This is lower than Karthus Sett Jayce and Malphite

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It's very much dead

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Most of the high elo enchanter solo lane mains have largely stopped

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This is the account of one of the infamous lulu top players in high elo korea

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At the start of the season, this player would only play Lulu top and some mid

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But about 3-4 months ago, has largely shifted to maining support

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Of course this is only one account, but the style of enchanter solo lane has died off

bright stone
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they still play it sololane a lot?

inland shadow
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That player used to otp Lulu top

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But they haven't stopped like I thought

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But just play it 1/4 of the time now

vestal sigil
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the shit your abhle to do on karma is also insane

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janna has the best laning phase in the sup category

onyx rapids
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Feel coping topic

narrow smelt
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Lulu laughing in polymorph

livid thorn
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I'm not 100% sure but I believe lulu gets more value W'ing her ally rather than the enemy

stuck flint
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But it’s funny

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I always want to turn fiddle into a squirrel

stuck flint
obsidian turret
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I’m kinda bored of the enchanter meta so I don’t mind

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imo scaling in general has been way too broken

stuck flint
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I think the worst thing about bot lane are camping melee supports with hooks