#Slower Time To Kill, right now you die way too fast

1350 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

keen stone
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that trailer was action packed

compact fjord
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Yea and the game was too

keen stone
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its not lol

compact fjord
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Lmao you just didn't get in good lobbies

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I had tons of games where it looked exactly like in the trailer

keen stone
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that's good I was already getting stomped in the "bad" lobies

compact fjord
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I meant good as in humans

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It was mostly bota

keen stone
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they were humans. I won the bot games

compact fjord
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Even then it was a trailer artificial gameplay Is always in trailers it was always advertised as a hero based tac fps

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Tps*

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Steam says it

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And the literal blog from the dev says it

keen stone
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Well there trailer is gonna bite them in the ass. It's pulling in people like me that don't want that

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We all saw anime waifu fortnite without building.

compact fjord
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Oh then you obviously didn't watch the trailer

keen stone
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The hell I didn't

compact fjord
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That one statement shows it

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Everyone calling it anime fortnite is wrong

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It's anime pubg

keen stone
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anyways like I said lets agree to disagree goodbye my friend wish you the best

remote wharf
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Now if they just add a first person mode, itll definitely be anime pubg lol

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I like being able to see Kira as she's my fave, but i like first person more

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i hate 3rd person mainly because it can get pretty fucky with fov in some places

hollow drift
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first person was already included in the UI when you got to choose gamemodes

remote wharf
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I meant first person always, like no thrid person at all

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third*

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OH nvm i misread what you said

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oops

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we a little slow lmao

thick pasture
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I’m posting this here because somehow the other suggestion threads get hijacked by ttk talk and I’d like it to move back to where it should be lol.

“I’m not arguing them saying that it has a short ttk. I’m showing that it’s counter-intuitive to say it’s a fast paced shooter then give the game a short ttk.

As evidenced in every single br that has a shorter ttk, the vast majority of players will play slower and lock down points, often only moving once the circle forces them to, vs traversing the map and using the games gunplay, movement and skills to play.
It becomes a game of who saw who first.

Again I’m not saying you can’t be successful moving around and playing aggressively, I’m stating that the current sandbox is counterintuitive to that by design.
The majority certainly won’t succeed in this way, and a small minority will, leading to disparagement in player skill levels and lower skilled players always being sent back to the lobby as soon as they drop in.
I’m speaking to give everyone more of a fighting chance, not just the higher skilled.
And a higher ttk means the higher skilled players can still succeed just as well, they will just have more options to do so, and the lower skilled will then be able to get a chance to actually play the game, grow their skills, and learn.

This issue is extrapolated the higher the skill level disparagence is between players.
In a situation of fast ttk and high skill players, will 90% of the time come down to the person holding sight line and saw who first.
This percentage is even higher when against a lower skilled player as they will have next to no chance of retaliation, evidenced in games even outside of BR’s.

That’s why, despite it saying short ttk in the steam page and dev letters, it doesn’t make sense to say fast paced shooter as stated.

TL:DR;
Short ttk = slower more stagnant gameplay with less engaging firefights that are often over in milliseconds to seconds at most.
Longer ttk = faster, more maneuverable gameplay with more player choice and more chances retaliate, which leads to more engaging firefights.”

compact fjord
thick pasture
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Steam page.

compact fjord
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im seriously not seeing it

thick pasture
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It’s in the description on the steam page as you read more about it. It’s in “About this game” section

compact fjord
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this?

thick pasture
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Yes, it’s in there.

compact fjord
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it ends there tho

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theres no more stuff

thick pasture
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It continues on right after the first image.

compact fjord
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oh i see it now

thick pasture
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Goes on to talk about the character roster, skills and abilities and game design

compact fjord
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still tho i find it a bit of a stretch to ignore the dev blog clearly saying its a low ttk tac shooter and listen to the steam description

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especially sinec theres only one instance of the words fast paced

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advertised as opposed to like the 6 tac fps

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thats shown

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Like im genuinely curious why people are against a low ttk BR when its different from other games it gives it uniqueness

thick pasture
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I’m not ignoring it. Even if we subtract them saying fast-paced shooter, it still is true as to all the other evidence that I’ve stated up there.
I’m not even making the statement for myself as like you I had plenty of fun and success in the alpha. 80-100 matches, 10-25 kill games with a majority won and a 10 win streak to finish.
I’m more saying that all players should get a chance, not just higher skilled players.
Higher ttk doesn’t detract from the better player being able to perform, it simply allows everyone a chance.
I mean arguably it gives the higher skilled player even more room to perform.

compact fjord
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i can agree with adding movement

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but saying low ttk is bad is just unfair its just something you have to get used to

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even with a higher ttk the worst players will die theres still plenty of ways to have fun casually theres a reason PUBG probably the 2nd hardest BR behind fortnite has such a large playerbase still

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the low ttk allows lower skilled players to kill good players if they get the jump on them

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as opposed to having a higher ttk the better player finds cover heals and then diffs them yk

thick pasture
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That’s the point of contention we disagree on I suppose.
I’m saying not that it’s bad objectively, it’s less punishing on the lower skill brackets, allowing them to also build skill sets and actually get to play the game.

compact fjord
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well apex is a good example right?

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how is a casual lower skilled player

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killing aceu

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or faide

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ever?

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hell i cant even kill him and im above average in that game

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but lets take val for example Tenz one time smurfed in iron and was genuinely tweaking cause he was getting 1 tapped and couldnt read the iron mindset and wasnt doing good

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lower ttk lets better players get punished Harder for mistakes Higher ttk lets better players play without a brain and get rewarded

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thats why season 12 of apex was miserable

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better players just ran valkyrie aped everyone

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without a care

thick pasture
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Apex is a good example yes, but apex also has other determining factors too.

As far as them facing Aceu or faide, first lol.
Second, they don’t.
Not heads up at least, they’d have to retreat, call for a 3v1 man jump on them and even then they may lose.

But that’s also a small minority of players at that skill level, that they will face maybe 1 out of 100 matches maybe.

And players of that skill level are the minority, which stands that we can’t make an change on a that.

compact fjord
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aceu and faide do solo squads and drop 20 consistantly

thick pasture
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I’ve seen it too

compact fjord
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you proved my point tho

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if youre saying the counter to good players

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is strategy

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then the counter to low ttk

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is also strategy

thick pasture
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But the average or even lower player doesn’t play against Aceu maybe 1 out of 100 matches

compact fjord
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thats why theres an MMR system right?

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or do you not want one

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i think people forget skill based matchmaking is a thing

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if youre not great you will go against not great players

thick pasture
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Mmr should only exist in ranked and never in public/casual play.

compact fjord
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ok then

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youre inviting the idea

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that better players

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can stomp

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should the better player be losing?

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or am i reading the argument wrong

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youre saying better players can just beam people

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but they do that regardless of the cirumstances of TTK

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even in apex people die in 1 clip or less against good players

thick pasture
compact fjord
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but thats the thing right

thick pasture
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No I’m not disagreeing the better player should win

compact fjord
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in all honesty

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NA has been complaining about ttk

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and not one complaint on JP servers is about TTK which makes me wonder why were complaining

thick pasture
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I’ve seen both NA and JP servers as well

compact fjord
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about the ttk when theres worst problems in the game

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the only complaint about the ttk was offering to not make the ttk higher but to artifically make it higher by making guns harder to control

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which imo

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is a great idea

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jp literally said the games too easy and better players are losing lol

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so its odd to me where the opposite standpoint in NA

thick pasture
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It could help but that also depends on how.
If it’s actual recoil, visual recoil, or if worst case scenario bloom.

compact fjord
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Not saying JP is right and NA is wrong but they put more thought to it then just being like "add more health" the devs want a lower health pool so lets exhaust all other options before changing the idealogy

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when you make developers stray from thier vision theyre just not gonna care as much

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happened with fortnite

compact condor
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It's like every game now a days has to be the same nothing can have it's own identity or be something different

compact fjord
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reason valorant is so popular is cause of the fact you can be a mid player and pull off a crazy play where you 1 tap 5 people in a row

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this game promotes that to casuals

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you dont need MASTER VOLTAIC AIMLAB tier aim to be good

thick pasture
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The base line for why is that from a developmental standpoint especially in UE5, a health change is arguably the easiest and quickest way to absolve the disparities.
I would however expand on the change and say if they do make the ttk slower they should also adjust damage profiles to different parts of the body more to reward accuracy.

compact fjord
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this game said hey lets make the better players the one who are strategically better

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not the ones who sit on aimlabs 24/7

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or practice movement techs in a lab for 600 hours

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they reward the actual strategic side of BRS

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not the mechanical side

compact condor
compact fjord
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which is a nice change of pace

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cause in the future

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theres gonna be this god tier player with such a good grasp on strategy who picks up the game late

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and just diff everyone else

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it allows people to come in do minimum aiming but have to think

thick pasture
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I’m fairly certain it will cause them to lose a lot of potential players that are going to boot up into the game for the first time, and get sent back to the lobby within the first minutes of playing.
I want the game to succeed, but I also don’t want to be the only one succeeding is where my stance comes from.

compact fjord
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there will be skill based matchmaking

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like every other game

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dont gotta worry about that

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as much as people hate it

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it helps casuals stay casuals

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and it helps refrain good players

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from shitting on the dad who got home after 8 hours

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trying to relax

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the only people sbm punishes

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are sweats

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and casual sweats

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which go play ranked anyways

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so its not a problem

thick pasture
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I don’t think people hate sbmm, people hate hidden sbmm in playlists that aren’t for a rank.
Pubs is about facing off against anyone across the world, where which sometimes you’ll face similar skilled, sometimes lower, sometimes you get stomped.

compact fjord
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this is legit going against your argument tho

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your argument is casuals will get stomped with this ttk

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so i said add sbmm so they dont

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and now youre saying they should get stomped?

compact condor
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That's a rough mindset. Obviously there's a chance games fail but if it fails because of something like "ttk being to fast" it never had a chance to begin with. Also u legit Said casuals will have a hard time so sbmm is the best thing for them...

thick pasture
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It’s not, as it’s not taking into account what I said about giving them a chance to learn and get better.

compact fjord
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you can learn with a low ttk

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people learned valorant

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people learned

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Tarkov

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those are insta kill games

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whats the argument here

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hell

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csgo still insanely huge

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valorant is easier csgo

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Fate trigger is easier PUBG

compact condor
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That's called adaption that Is how people play every game that has a new premise. It's a learning curve if ur a sweat but if ur a casual it's just fun

compact fjord
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and PUBG

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is EXTREMELY popular

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like i didnt expect

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the amount of people who play daily

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but im not unfair

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i will apologize

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for not seeing that they did advertise the fast paced

thick pasture
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That they will not get the chance if they are sent back to the lobby their first 5/10 matches. Most players will drop the game.
My suggestion still stands that higher ttk doesn’t hurt the higher skilled player, and only helps the lower.

compact fjord
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actually

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like i have said this a billion times already lol

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and gave a billion examples

thick pasture
# compact fjord i will apologize

Lol you don’t need to apologize it’s a game it’s not that serious.
I’m just trying to give everyone a chance to also enjoy the game.

compact fjord
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ill go look for the clip of tenz dying in iron (pro player btw)

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ill pull up the PUBG daily player numbers

thick pasture
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You and I both have, my friend it’s as simple as us disagreeing.
Which I’m perfectly ok with.

compact condor
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Such dignified conversations

compact fjord
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you never gave another example of how higher TTK helps tho

thick pasture
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It is all good. I can be ok with understanding your pov, and I have mine. At the end of the day, the devs will decide and we just live with what that choice is. I just hope it doesn’t cost them players.

compact fjord
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you just said it does

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i gave apex as an example of how higher TTK actually makes casuals worst

compact condor
thick pasture
compact condor
compact fjord
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at the end of the day ill still play it with a higher ttk

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but i just

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will feel kinda sad

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cause the game feels so unique

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im afraid highering the ttk will just make me feel im playing farlight

compact condor
compact fjord
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but ig if it doesnt make the game die cant really complain

compact condor
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Like I was this will not make it or break it

compact fjord
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but tbh ttk is least of thier problems

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game needs to work first before we can fully say anything about the ttk

compact condor
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I saw Hella casuals who put so much Time in and this is an Alpha the worse state the game will be in

thick pasture
# compact fjord you never gave another example of how higher TTK helps tho

In this thread and others I explained how tracking and movement comes into play, and that higher ttk also means players can exit fights and re-engage or simply leave and let another team take them out.
Apex ttk allows players to do this, and even if they are getting outplayed, they get more seat time in the match and in engagements, letting them have more time to discern what their doing wrong and how to grow.
We could also bring the Warzone argument into this as to how they went from middle ground ttk, to fast, back to slower/middle ground ttk.

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And agreed devs will decide to do what they want.

compact fjord
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The thing is apex third partys are the worst example since its near impossible to win thirdparties in that game

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however in fate trigger

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its very possible

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with the low ttk

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thats why third partying is so hated in apex among casuals

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plus apex has such a horrendous playercount

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casuals dont play that game much anymore

thick pasture
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Apex player count has dropped for many many reasons other than ttk. Map design, weapon balancing, giving mechanics and then taking them away, health balancing between characters and a host of other issues.

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I’m definitely not defending apex lol

compact fjord
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also gotta consider the fact if they add a higher TTK characters like EOS NASE and FLAME will all be giga broken

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And creation will only get stronger

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so no shifting the TTK a lil higher isnt as easy as it seems

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they characters are balanced around the current TTK

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not a higher one

compact condor
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I like the game I think if it focuses on other things and cares for the community then we'll be okay and ultimately like I said if the game does all that well and continue dropping for content and game modes and other things this game will thrive. But changing the core of the game could do a lot worse then good at this time imo obviously

compact fjord
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flames DOT will be insanely crazy EOS ULT will get more value since shes tankier Creation heal will be giga broken since people will get knocked less and healed more

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it adds alot of issues

thick pasture
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I think character balancing is another thing entirely, i do think there are changes need to be made there but less disparities imo

compact fjord
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no no

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im saying

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if they higher the TTK

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the characters NEED to be rebalanced

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If not creation will be THE BEST character EOS will be unstoppable off ult

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and flame will have the best duels since her dot passive will just out duel anyone in a gun fight

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theres more problems with highering the ttk

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then with adding cover to the map

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and higher the recoil

thick pasture
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I get what you saying but that’s not what the thread was about I meant. Yes increasing ttk does bring about other things too I’m not denying that but from a developmental standpoint, changing number values is easier than making additions of cover and changing terrain is what I meant.

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I can hop in UE and make those changes in seconds vs redesigning maps terrain and cover taking much more time.

compact fjord
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i disagree coding a higher ttk then going back and having to balance out characters is defintely harder then putting props on the map

thick pasture
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I guess another thing we agree to disagree on lol

compact fjord
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ig so i just still think highering the TTK will make it less fun tho

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cause highering the ttk and also giving movement will legit

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make it farlight

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no joke

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just a better quality farlight

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and farlight aint that fun

thick pasture
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Never played farlight so I can’t give any insight on that.

Guess time will tell. Good convo tho. I appreciate your pov.
It’s always interesting to see where other people are coming from.

compact fjord
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👍

lost ingot
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typical "I want the game to be like other games instead of its own thing"

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You don't like it, cool don't play it

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let the devs make the game they want instead of forcing them to make a game that is just another copy of another game

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something that they won't like making

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and invest less and less into

hollow drift
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i feel like people haven't been playing the elevation/prone game too much either

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theres been a ton of small lips around the map that makes proning beneficial enough to give you that time to smoke or ability util to hide proper

cosmic stump
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not sure if ttk seems the issue. Certain guns have such a bad dmg. For example i think it was lmg and dmr which shared close the same dmg and were the whole alpha op

lost ingot
keen stone
# lost ingot typical "I want the game to be like other games instead of its own thing"

Online games are about balancing what devs want and what the community wants. Looking at Farlight 84 the devs wanted to remove jet packs the community wanted to keep them. Devs chose their way and removed them. The end result is it lost about 90% of its playerbase and is likely gonna EoS within a year or 2. I look at the reactions to this suggestion. About 33% like the current TTK and 66% don't. The devs gotta make a call. Do they wanna go against the majority or not. I don't think increasing the TTK out right stops the game from being tactical as Makoi seems to think. I'm of the opinion that the current TTK will cause a harsh player fall of on release. Lots of casuals will leave after getting killed multiple times without being able to react. The end result is smaller player base at a higher skill level. This will create a high barrier for entry and just snowball the game into a small niche community. I see real potenial in this game. I think this game with the right balance and map tweaks can seriously be a major player in the BR market.

hollow drift
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dmr is actually funny once you add explosive rounds

hollow drift
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Reactions are people too afraid to voice exactly why, people that do give their reasoning and about 4 times now its nearly gotten uncivil to where people need to step back. The indepth discussion is where people can explore solutions instead of giving warnings on "game will fail if i don't get what i want", people with initial disagreements can find the arguments of solutions (character ability, universal movement) but not a lot are going off of what currently exists...

Do people know that they can cover more ground on the map just by standing on a rock and paragliding with the elevation? Not really...

People keep referring to other games for their argument. In my opinion, Fate Trigger devs did already take all that in consideration into developing their game. I see every single aspect of successful BRs they took inspiration off of and improved in where the original game that used that idea may be slightly lacking or straight up not good, they then at the same time made something innovative.

They rewarded players who just wanna hotdrop with the recall system. Instead of requeuing every 4 minutes, which I think is the most casual mindset to play the game. (will say that reducing the availability time of it from half the gamelength is needed)

They kept the uniformed 30 min gameplay, it doesn't matter how high the ttk or low the ttk is, a game to endgame will last between 25-30 mins. The speed of the game doesn't change any of that.

They have a revive system without the need to go to a specific part of the map, you just gotta stay safe after getting their orb.

All of this is from the 4player perspective. Has anyone thought about solos/duos and how that drastically changes how people have to play because of ability pool is halfed or quartered?

Was 5 days really enough to have all these talks that you want game overhauling needs?

High TTK just gives the tension and wear of "oh god im always in a fight, any fight i take i'm just third partied"
People are just going to get fatigued after 3 games of just constant APM if people get the "give me slide, dash ability, roll, parkour, whilst aiming at a person 70m away with perfect aim control for 2 full clips of my ammo... and do 70% of their HP"

Low TTK gives the tension of "If I am spotted at any time, the fear of being shot exists, what tools do we have to maximize survival?"
People leave the game of "Damn, close fight, OH CRAP WE COULD HAVE DONE THIS AND TOTALLY REPOSITION, let's try to remember that for next time"

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Because of my work, I've seen all the BRs and have my opinions of each one, and majority of them are either neutral, negative or "this was good, but it fell off.."

Fate Trigger right now has been the most excited i've been for a BR

keen stone
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I think that at the very least exploring the idea of a longer TTK is an option. The game hasn't released yet. There can still be another closed alpha with a longer TTK. From there devs can once again gauge community feedback and see if it worked or not. I hope they don't rush releasing this game. I don't know how far along the game is considered to be in its devlopment or how much room is left for experimentation in the alpha tests. Adjusting TTK to see how it works is quick and easy. Just change a few numbers whether that be HP and Armor values or weapon values or a bit of both. The map being to big seems to be another common complaint. Changing this is not something that can be done quickly and is something you don't want to do unless you are certain it is necessary because of the time and resources it will take to do.

I'm not trying to hate on the game. I'm not trying to hate on people who like the current TTK. I'm not trying to be an ahole or anything. I'm not even trying to say this game will 100% fail if it keeps the current TTK. I'm just expressing my own thoughts and opinions on things while providing sources where I can on why I think the way I do. I just feel like a longer TTK will have better odds at finding a larger community. IMO anime gamers are a lot more casual of players overall in comparison to the people who play a more realistic BR such as pubg. I have no data or evidence to back that up its just my own potentially wrong perception. Look where anime games are making the most money? Gacha games which are very casual games.

cosmic stump
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My thoughts in general were only put one a bar into/ add the bar higher. I think it was 25 if im wrong please correct me. From exp the whole alpha and even a dmr abuser. It was legit you get a scope and could beam everyone in a sec

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If they reduce the dmg of the guns by -10 or something it would still be a enjoyable or they nerf the bullet speed. The gun was in general legit unbalanced same as the lmg. I think that could provide most of the complains about the ttk in the alpha. Same as Shotgun. The dmg was like way to much for an auto shotgun. They should test theirself the ttk and should see if they get beamed in sec. I wish they add some testers like other games(smaller dev teams). Just to help to adjust the ttk. Otherwise i think the game communicate with us more than other games. Especially the suggestion is lovely to see

lost ingot
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People’s opinions is mostly biased by the DMR/LMG and the fact that everyone forgets we all had 200ms of latency which implies huge desync. Most of the time if you see 2 bullets hit you, the enemy saw himself shoot 4

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I will stay by the dev’s vision and I’m glad because nowadays games tend to have way too high TTK like Apex for example where it’s just not fun nor fair anymore

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Fortnite is the perfect balance for a TTK and FTTN is the closest to it

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We just need some range nerf on most guns and some fire rate nerf to the DMR

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It should be halved

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Like a real DMR

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And that’s it

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With this, a slide and roll for more survivability and a good ping, there will be no more unfair fights where you die before having the time to react

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Fortnite has the build to protect you, that’s why we need a roll in this game to protect us

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Since most abilities provide zero survivability

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I just hope the devs can tell the difference between a bad upvoted suggestion and a good downvoted suggestion

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Giving in to the casuals will not make a game strive, in fact this is what killed most BRs and competitive games

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And this game aims to be competitive

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This is mentioned on the steam page.

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I’d rather have something unique and tasteful but more niche than something casual and very popular but completely tasteless

lime valve
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"unique but more niche" will not sell if almost no one likes it

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and judging from all the votes, majority of testers did NOT like the low TTK and lack of movement

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of course the devs can do whatever they want with their game, they can either listen to the playerbase or just ignore it and stick to their vision

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but in the end of the day, making games cost money, and they'll need to satisfy players if they want to do that

lime valve
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what's killing apex is the stupid devs not solving the cheating and aim assist issues, apex gunplay is still considered to be the best among FPS games even outside BRs due to its combination of high TTK and movement mechanics

cosmic stump
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apex ttk is also not even perfect

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the fact that certain chars getting +armor for being ring

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kinda ruined the fun

lime valve
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it's a bit off topic but the original apex team has been long since gone, they've been making bad decisions all around since season 14+
it started to look obvious when they released the new Revenant, why did they think 300 HP player was a good idea?

cosmic stump
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Ye i played the game enough to tell

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Same idea as conduit

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Until fate dont come up with ideas like this

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Im curious if they nerf the healing cuz if they update the ttk by a little

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The healer will still be op

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They even should nerf her for her shield q

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But ye back to the topic. Lets see what will happend. My still suggestion was the dmg. The fact the lmg made so much dmg from far

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It was legit a sniper

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And not even a lmg

lime valve
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LMG doing massive dmg is actually quite realistic, but they gotta increase the guns recoil

cosmic stump
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Ye i get it

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But the gun was like taps

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Instead like spray

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If i had a 3x on it i could beam people from far away

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Like an dmr

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The dmr was legit an s0 wingman from apex

compact condor
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@lost ingot I have a 1500+ hours in Apex and 67 hours in this Alpha, people are saying the ttk is to high because for some reason they can't understand that the servers are not close to us meaning it's going to feel like ur dying instantly. I agree guns need nerfs I can even go so far as to say a little more movement is good. As for Apex.. I agree that games ttk is insane causing u to always get third partied and it works for that type of game and what they wanted but for this game what the devs want isn't the same thing or the TTK would have been higher in advance. Either way this is Alpha and if TTK really made people not wanna play it then they will always find something to complain abt, and at the end of the day all u can do is try to find a middle ground.

In reality change the guns around, (DMR.. LMG which was broken but so slow so kinda weighed it's self out. & the shotgun was fine it was good close range like it should be and bad far range like it should be) Again please remember this was an Alpha things will be different as the game progresses and if u don't enjoy it don't play it, simple as that. (Also wanted to say to the person I tagged I agree with everything u said)

lost ingot
cosmic stump
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The alpha part is so true but only disagree on the shotgun🥲 idk if it was right but the gun did sometimes 112-118 for auto shotgun

compact condor
cosmic stump
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most people dont know it was op if huxely used ult

compact condor
cosmic stump
# compact condor ... umm are u mentally sound? Also Idk it was broken but every gun seemed very s...

Well no one knows if it was op cuz people had barely shotgun ammo. I think whole alpha it was not there. But i can tell from certain gun fights in close range it was really op. Otherwise i dont mind because its close range gun but when the ttk was low it felt like a 1 pump and you dead. Thats why i was mention the guns besides the lmg and dmr that this gun was also broken interms if you were really close. If i remember it right it had 14 or 16 bullets but i could be wrong with an mag..

compact condor
lost ingot
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Shotgun should two shot at close range

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Just like fortnite

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The firerate should be halved tho

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Or, if they wanna keep it auto

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It should kill in four shots then

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But this is what I had tbh

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I had to shoot atleast three times to kill someone close range with it

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So idk

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The gun doesn’t seem very consistent

cosmic stump
lost ingot
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Yeah that’s what I said after that

compact fjord
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you have to hit every pellet

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it usually 2 shots

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and if they do anything to the fire rate

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the shotgun would die cause the fall off damage

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is way too big

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i used the shotguns alot on eos

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and i did die alot upclose with it tbh

lost ingot
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It shouldn’t one shot even with all the pellets

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Especially since it’s an auto shotgun

compact fjord
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i can agree if we dont lower the fire rate

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but if you do both you will make the shotgun terrible

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its either no 1shots fast fire rate

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slow fire rate with 1 taps

lost ingot
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nah even if it's slow

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it should two tap

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one tap is too high

compact fjord
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why tho

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with a low ttk

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youll just die to smgs or ars everytime

compact condor
cosmic stump
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lets see what they do to the ttk. I mention the shotgun only because it was for me not right to pump 118 into a person and she is already dead after 1 sec

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the dmg on certain smgs were also really bad

long zealot
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more like 100ms

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The ping didn't help either, sometimes someone jumped around a corner with a shotgun and I was taking dmg as they appeared on my screen, sometimes even before. It was very enjoyable.

cosmic stump
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ye but its kinda weird. Sometimes i jumped over cars and did a 118 bump to a person hiding there

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kinda why i loved kira

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place a wall and peak over the wall

long zealot
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I agree a regular auto shotgun should never 1 shot in the game as we have it rn. 2 shot is fine, as long as the TTK is slightly better than the SMGs.

long zealot
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If it were like a pump action shotty from an airdrop then sure

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1 shot me

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But otherwise no thx

compact condor
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I agree that a automatic shotgun shouldnt 1 shot but it defintley should shoot faster imo. So lower damage but increase fire rate

cosmic stump
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its already increase fire rate

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lower dmg would be better

compact condor
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Yes lower damage but increase fire it is an auto shotgun it has to do something, all I am saying is if you take that guns damage away and don't give it "even" faster fire rate it will be pointless to ever use.

cosmic stump
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i mean rn it has no delay to it. So it shoots pretty fast. Im not even speaking about huge dmg reduce. Maybe 10-20 less

compact condor
cosmic stump
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trueee