I think the "Sampler Sigma Min" setting is not working. I get pixel-perfect identical outputs no matter if the setting is set to a value of 0, 0.5 or 1.
With DPM++ 2M Sampler and Karras Scheduler.
#"Sampler Sigma Min" setting not working?
slow bramble
bold shoal
are you using karras or exponential scheduler?
slow bramble
are you using karras or exponential scheduler?
as I said, I am using Karras Scheduler
bold shoal
oh sorry i missed that
slow bramble
and in A1111/Forge the Sigma Min setting has a lot of effect on the output from Karras, even just changing it from 0.0 to 0.1 significantly changes the output there
so I think it's likely a bug that it doesn't change the output at all in SwarmUI?
bold shoal
Looks like it's probably a problem with the SwarmKSampler node, or something else that we're both missing. I just confirmed the same as you that it has no effect on the output regardless of the value. I even tried 3.0 just to see what it would do, but they're all completely identical. It is applying the value to the SwarmKSampler node as it should though.
slow bramble
nice, thank you for testing and confirming that
bold shoal
I found the problem. The node only uses the sigma_min value if scheduler is either karras or exponential AND sigma_max >= 0
However the default value for sigma_max is -1. If you switch over to the Comfy Workflow Tab and click Import From Generate Tab, you can manually adjust the sigma_max to it's max value of 1000 and you will see that sigma_min works as expected.
@abstract stream i don't know what the best way to solve this for the generate tab would be. i suppose exposing sigma_max next to sigma_min on the generate tab would probably be the most useful as it would give the user the most control without having to switch to the workflow tab. if changing the default value of sigma_max to 1000 wouldn't cause problems elsewhere then that could also work.
slow bramble
interesting, nice that you found what caused the issue! I never changed a sigma_max value in A1111/Forge, I always just adjusted the sigma_min
I agree exposing the sigma_max would be a good solution, but maybe also just automatically set it to whatever value makes sense once the user edits the sigma_min
so that the user does not need to know they have to adjust the sigma_max when changing sigma_min
just like in A1111/Forge I only ever had to know about changing sigma_min
bold shoal
Yeah, I agree that it would probably be best for users not to have to know that both need adjusted in order to use sigma_min. I think intentionally setting sigma_max to anything other than it's maximum value or unlimited is much less common than adjusting sigma_min.
bold shoal
I made a pr that will expose the sigma_max value on all model types which is currently only displayed when an sd3 model is selected. It doesn't address the default value, but it's better than nothing https://github.com/mcmonkeyprojects/SwarmUI/pull/854
slow bramble
I made a pr that will expose the sigma_max value on all model types which is cur...
very nice! I want to test that so I manually applied your change in my swarmui, I just don't know how to build the change now
I know after I do a git pull, the next time I use the launch_windows.bat it says something like "git pull detected, do a build now..."
I assume I need to somehow trigger that process manually now after I edited the source?
ah I looked into the launch_windows.bat and created a must_rebuild file in src/bin, it seems that worked to successfully trigger the build, now I see your sigma_max setting 💯
what are the default values for sigma_min and sigma_max that will give me the same result like not enabling those settings?
indigo salmon
Pretty sure that if you reset your params under quick tools at the top right you should get the defaults.
slow bramble
Pretty sure that if you reset your params under quick tools at the top right you...
after I do that, I see this:
but I get a different result with that than with this:
indigo salmon
So it's the same values but just the toggle turned off right?
slow bramble
actually, I just get a fully black image with that
yes, same settings just toggle turned off or on
indigo salmon
Give me a moment, I never touched those values.
Wait, where are you seeing Max? I don't have that.
Ah I'm dumb lol
So in the comfy tab imported workflow min and max say -1
Does that help at all or did I misunderstand you?
Because otherwise I just have 0 and 10 too
Clearly should've read the whole thing. Seems like comfy just represents off as -1 in Swarm toggling to off just represents that then.
You can try 0.02 min and 80 or 100 max
If I understood that correctly one of these should be the default for karras.
slow bramble
So in the comfy tab imported workflow min and max say -1
if I try -1 in both:
then I get an error:
indigo salmon
Yeah -1 in Comfy is just what toggled to off is in Swarm
slow bramble
if I try 0.02 and 10, I get an output that looks like a totally different seed than having the settings turned off
slow bramble
with 0.02 and 100 I also get an output that looks like a totally different seed than having the settings turned off
indigo salmon
ok, try 80 for max too :D
slow bramble
still looks like a different seed
indigo salmon
ok now try 0.002 as min XD
haha sorry it's kinda hard to find something concrete about it. checking the comfy repo now
slow bramble
0.002 and 100 and 0.002 and 80 both still look like a different seed than having the settings turned off
slow bramble
I just looked at A1111 and there it is ~0.03 min and ~14.6 max by default it seems
indigo salmon
if that's not the one someone smarter gotta help you
slow bramble
so A1111 matches what you just said
indigo salmon
yeah suspiciously close hehe
indigo salmon
nice
the first values were what was once recommended in the paper apparently
and the last one is from swarms source code :D
slow bramble
so it would be best if the UI would look like this by default, showing the actual defaults and not the values 0 and 10 which seem to make no sense?
indigo salmon
Yeah interesting question why it is that way.
slow bramble
thanks for your help, at least I now know what values to use for the max and now I can adjust the min the way I need
indigo salmon
for sure :) was like a small riddle haha
slow bramble
sigma_min is like a detail slider for karras. increasing it makes there be less detail, and decreasing it makes there be more detail
and depending on which checkpoint you use and what you generate, different values are best for sigma_min
indigo salmon
oh that's good to know, i never touched these values before.
gotta try that the next time i generate something
bold shoal
ah I looked into the launch_windows.bat and created a must_rebuild file in src/b...
in the future if you need to rebuild, the launch-windows-dev.ps1 (windows, open in powershell) or launch-linux-dev.sh (linux) scripts will do that for you.
abstract stream
i have no idea why sigmax was hidden and locked to sd3
abstract stream
so it would be best if the UI would look like this by default, showing the actua...
no
unchecked doesn't just secretly feed that value in
it feeds no value in
ie underlying internal systems control the value, and it's different contextually
eg per model class or per the different schedulers
there isn't "one true default" to put there, which is why the placeholder numbers are arbitrary
bold shoal
i have no idea why sigmax was hidden and locked to sd3
Is it possible that Sigma Shift was meant to be locked to sd3? That's the next item in the list.
abstract stream
that was my thought but git blame indicates that probably wasn't why
or possibly just i was doing 5 things at once while working on sd3 and it was meant to be sigma shift but i hadn't added sigma shift in at all yet
idek
definitely a mistake either way
bold shoal
At least it was a simple fix and I got to learn a little bit about swarmui. I hadn't poked around in that code at all before today.
slow bramble
there isn't "one true default" to put there, which is why the placeholder number...
I don't understand your reasoning there? if a user wants to enable the setting, then the user wants to be able to slightly adjust the value from what it is by default. how how can the user do that if the user cannot see the default anywhere?
it would also be helpful if you would at least mention the defaults in the "?" button text
in A1111 the setting is a slider in the settings that by default just sits on 0.03 for sigma min for example. the user always sees the slider in the settings, the setting is always "enabled"
so adjusting it slightly is very easy in A1111 by just moving the slider a bit to the left or right
do you not think it should be same easy to use in SwarmUI?
isn't SwarmUI designed to be just as easy to use as A1111?