pseuudu log analysis

[runic sable]

👋

[keen dirge]

Hey!

[polar igloo]

you had 6 casts of shurien storm on a single target fight

[keen dirge]

most all of them were when I was running from the boss to a soak point

[polar igloo]

try and empty energy before stacking

[runic sable]

shuriken throw works too usually

if it takes longer to gather people

[polar igloo]

you had a lot of backstab casts and lless SS casts too

[keen dirge]

yea I have a couple throws when we are taking longer

[polar igloo]

compared to my kill that was 15s shorter

you had 13 more backstab casts

[keen dirge]

should I more aggressively use dances for more ss?

[polar igloo]

but only did ~5k more BS damage

[keen dirge]

think most of the backstabs are before soak points so I dont loose 3-4 seconds of dance

[polar igloo]

I think you need to get in the habit of using PV stacks before you dance

like going into dance with 5 PV stacks instead of BS > dance

seems to be a recurring habit

[keen dirge]

yea I need to get better with that

[polar igloo]

whole idea is to be as efficient as possible with the stacks so you can minimise using BS in dance as much as possible

[keen dirge]

in the opener if I dont have the requirements to bs during dance should I use a bs before doing a second dance?

to get the stacks off?

[polar igloo]

yes

like here

[keen dirge]

alr so just more management of the pv stacks

[polar igloo]

that bas could've been before dance

bs*

[keen dirge]

yea mainly what I was asking for

if that bs should have been earlier

[polar igloo]

Like this

[keen dirge]

dropping the stacks and then dancing

yea was just curious about actual sb windows if it would still be the case

[polar igloo]

yeah the specific conditions to using bs in dance apply but you wanna try and empty the charges before dancing almost always

because it allows for more efficient cp generation during dance

[keen dirge]

is there anything else glaringly obivous I am messing up other than pv stacks and bsing to much?

I gotchu

will work of that for next time

[polar igloo]

could probably use DS pre pull

makes that a bit more fluid

[keen dirge]

dont have it crafted didnt think it added that much?

[polar igloo]

it's big QoL

even if it was dps neutral you'd "feel" the difference in opener

[keen dirge]

so it would just need to be a like 190 leggo

[polar igloo]

ye

[keen dirge]

and it would be vanish swap gear and open with snd > ss > cds > kyr?

[polar igloo]

This is what I do in opener

[keen dirge]

did you snd prepull then?

[polar igloo]

yes

[keen dirge]

I just have my sb macroed with dance and symbols

think that was the only difference other than ss and snd on pull

and then the bs before the second dance

[polar igloo]

I have everything seperate

and I have a dance + sod macro

and a ER + SB macro

[keen dirge]

I have shb + dance + sod and then dance + sod and dance

[polar igloo]

more often than not I wanna use them seperately

like I don't want to always dance + sod

sometimes I want to sod > evis > dance

[keen dirge]

yea fair

[polar igloo]

there is more use cases for them seperately than together

I basically only use them together in opener

or just after tornado

[keen dirge]

why wouldnt you want to sod + dance > evis > ss?

overcap energy?

[runic sable]

you basically lose shadow strike casts in dance by starting with evi

[keen dirge]

ohhh cause they arent the same length right

[runic sable]

you can basically see shadow dance as a ability that allows you to use shadow strike

and hence you want to do what leads to getting the most shadow strike casts (ofc while not wasting many combo points)

this is also why you don't use er in dance

[keen dirge]

wastes a global of dance that could be used for ss instead when you can er outside of dance

gotcha

[runic sable]

you would lose 2 globals

er + finisher

[keen dirge]

okay I gotcha

I dont think I do that often? mostly just er > finisher > dance cause it is about to cap

[runic sable]

it is also why we use backstab only under very strict conditions in dance and try to get rid of stacks before entering dance

you def. didn't use your anima charged cp here

[keen dirge]

mostly it is the 2 cp one is there a easy way to hit it?

[polar igloo]

finish > 4pc proc > finish

or finish > ShT > BS

[runic sable]

you also had some times snd dropped, unsure if it was with the dive phases, but don't think it was

[polar igloo]

To hit 2cp effectively you really need to pay attention to shadow techniques essentially

you need to know if it has or hasn't procced

and if you have/don't have shadow blades

[keen dirge]

yea sometimes I get the 2 cp and then tecniques procs on the first auto lol

uh first long one it dropped was dive phase pretty sure

not sure about the second tho

[runic sable]

you should re-apply ruptuee before symbols

also in this case, use dance after symbols

same here

it basically makes no sense to use dance before symbols if you can't follow up with a 2nd dance charge during symbols

all you do is lower the amount of symbols benefits you get during dance

if you have enough stacks, you can do that, but else it is usually better to have symbols for your entire dance

but your easiest mistake to correct is the one kieron mentioned by using backstab between shadow dances and only if you rly meet all constraints use backstab during dance (or even don't do that at all)

[keen dirge]

so I need to time dance better for more uptime during symbols

I have a wa that glows when I meet the requirements to bs during dance

[runic sable]

its fairly easy to do, if you have 8 secs left on symbols cooldown, look at your dance charges and if they are low, wait for symbols

[keen dirge]

yea as kyr is just feels like I have so much uptime

[runic sable]

you can else pmuch just fire and forget

its just a short time frame you want to consider it

[keen dirge]

it is more important to just wait as venth which I do but as kyr it feels like I am always almost capping

so gotta work on making sure that every symbols I have a dance ready for it and less bs in total

[runic sable]

thats why i say you can look at your charges

[keen dirge]

yea

[runic sable]

you usually get a feeling when you won't waste your your charge and can simply dance

[polar igloo]

1.5 charges is nearly always fine

[keen dirge]

just need to chill and slow down and not spam the dance everytime I see it up lol

[runic sable]

you can abolutely do that

just not when symbols comes up soon

[keen dirge]

alr I will log again on a heroic and will post again

[runic sable]

good luck and have fun

i think heroic is a lot easier

mythic is quite hectic

[keen dirge]

yea mucho swirlies and having to jump and bait

[runic sable]

and i think its a bit meh for melee dps

[keen dirge]

melee has it easy this tier

ngl

[runic sable]

e.g. we still have shit like this happening

[keen dirge]

lol our warrior have ape brains and stack like 8 of them next to each other xD

[runic sable]

because people move early and make it rly hard to dodge the bubbles

[keen dirge]

we have good stacks until after the first jump

and then everything goes sideways

[runic sable]

i mean, if you have a well organized group with disciplined players

its a breeze of fresh air

easy fight

but you should raid with us

and its not like anyone rly wants to do something wrong

just that people panic that they get hit

and then fuck over the group

and then more puddles you have, then harder it gets for melee

ranged can use vertical space a lot more efficiently

[keen dirge]

lolllll yea people dont panic in my raid they just move early and then stay spread lol

[runic sable]

i think the raid in general has a lot of mechanics where one individual fuckup can make the raid suffer

[keen dirge]

yea def

[runic sable]

and i agree melee has it not bad

i still don't think melee has it better

skolex is a good example, the fight was designed to be more punishing for ranged

[keen dirge]

lords sucks for melee andy sucks for melee

[runic sable]

yet in reality ranged has less downtime on the fight and can deal easier with mechancis

lords is the best melee fight in the tier

[keen dirge]

couple fights suck as melee but ranged has a lot more to deal with

[runic sable]

where you basically don't want ranged

[polar igloo]

no thanks

Do you have a melee marked

to stack

[runic sable]

yes

[polar igloo]

and the countdown weakaura

[keen dirge]

we do

[runic sable]

both yes

[keen dirge]

then people run away

[polar igloo]

[keen dirge]

we dont ahve the countdown tho

[polar igloo]

countdown til next blue swirlies good

[runic sable]

halondrus is another example

[polar igloo]

https://wago.io/-9o5QXqG2

[runic sable]

i don't think melee has it easier on it ^^

kieron, you need to keep in mind that our guild is way more casual

so players won't be that good

we used a weakaura like this

but it did lead to people move at 2 or 1

and then you have a pool of blue

[polar igloo]

I'm 2 day raiding too

but being casual isn't an argument for playing poorly

playing poorly is the argument for playing poorly

[runic sable]

because, you stack here f.ex.

and you see where puddles are?

[polar igloo]

usually one or two is find

fine

not 10 or 12

[runic sable]

ye we raid 2 days but only 5h per week

[polar igloo]

19.45-23.00

[runic sable]

i mean i agree with you completely

but its my gfs guild, she manages recruiting/etc

i just give my input and raid because she always needs more ppl

if i wanted to get higher in wr, i would go to a diffrent guild

[polar igloo]

same

[runic sable]

but i would also spend a lot more time outside of the raid in the game

i don't run 30 keys a week, or did stuff like spam tw dungeons

but i totally agree, it should still be possible to get people who can play mechanics

[polar igloo]

I think the main thing that people need to realise at lower ranks

is that mechanics over everything

you can kill bosses with all grey parses if no one dies to mechanics

especially if you get there after a series of nerfs

[runic sable]

idk

halondrus/anduin atm do seem like they won't be easy to play with a somewhat undergeared group

[polar igloo]

Yeah but then it becomes

do you think you can clear that content anyway

because skill gap becomes a big problem

it is mythic difficulty after all

[runic sable]

thats the problem we face every tier

we have good players but our core team is still fairly small

so what you need to do to raid mythic is to get people in who are not... that good

and even then you lose some of them due to them just using the guild as stepping stone to get to a higher one

we lost like 5 of our new recruitements just in the last 2 weeks as they got tier/gear and now went on to a guild with 1 more progress kill or so

[keen dirge]

yea thats what the decent people who join lower ranked guilds normally do just jump quids

quite annoying

[polar igloo]

really tends to stop at sub 1k wr tbh

[runic sable]

i did tell my gf she needs to recruite a lot more

[polar igloo]

you have core 20

[runic sable]

she was like "we have 25 players, so stfu"

i was like "we need at least 35"

now we are like "we need to pug 2 players to raid mythic"

[keen dirge]

nah like 5-10 people will leave after they get 1-2 mythic boss kills

[runic sable]

i mean, i would just go into a guild seen the struggle she has maintaining a raid team

but there is a lot of reason people leave

some did leave because people did not do 9 vault chests

[keen dirge]

managing a guild and raid team seems like shit tbh having to constantly recruit just to stay afloat and kill bosses

[runic sable]

it becomes a lot better if you go up in wr

but in the lower ranks you have a lot of ppl who just guld hop

guild hop

and its not even good players

[keen dirge]

yea

[runic sable]

we lost some rly bad ones too, we are happy for ^^

[keen dirge]

when the good ones leave it hurts but most of the time it is the bads thinking they will get higher going somewhere else

[runic sable]

but inherently, i think it just comes down to set realistic goals and make sure people align to them

[keen dirge]

yea

[runic sable]

and for my gf, we might get cutting edge, but rly depends how she handles recruting

potentially not if the same repeats that we had last tier

[keen dirge]

ce looks rough this tier with hal andy and then jailer

[runic sable]

we had 5 people quit per week

and mass recruited

[keen dirge]

seems like people will just quit mid prog on those bosses

[runic sable]

so we had to re-clear mythic for 2 months or so with a essential new raid team every week

and with re-clear i mean up to painsmith

[keen dirge]

yea painsmith and then have people leave the guild for the week after seeing you have a bunch of wipes because you have 5-10 people reprogging it every week

100% gonna have at hal with a bunch of guilds this tier too

bomb teamates leaving

I am trying to pug hal on my dk 😐 I just wanna log on my rogue and do a run of skolex xD

[runic sable]

i mean, i think 10 man raiding would help

just to give guilds options to scale down and keep raiding

@polar igloo thats a fun one for you.
The way we kill rygelon heroic is by having melees run to orbs and kill them and ranged dps blast the boss

thats how we compensate player skill

XD

but i think we already went a bit off topic 😛

[polar igloo]

omeg

[keen dirge]

is there a macro for deathly shadows on prepull to swap sets?

[polar igloo]

yeah type !ds in sub channel

[keen dirge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GmkaF39ytcADhqKY#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=2 alr

scuffed as fuckj

running shuriken tornado and pelagos

but better?

swapping for a skolex rq

[polar igloo]

hard to judge when you're a bad soulbind and talent

[keen dirge]

trueeeeee xD

doing a skolex H rq since I dont raid again this week

[polar igloo]

your halondrus is also uh

2 mins slower than mine

[keen dirge]

pug life be rough

[polar igloo]

you had a lot of downtime it seems

and uh

didn't cast tornado once?

[runic sable]

haha, thats perfect

[polar igloo]

never ever press this in ST

[runic sable]

"hard to judge wrong talent"
"wait, why didn't you use the talent thats wronf"

[polar igloo]

at least use it if you're talented in to it

[keen dirge]

I press it in the opener and that was it I am pretty sure lol

I used a storm when I got bounced away from boss D:

[runic sable]

rupture uptime is quite low

slice and dice too

[polar igloo]

I had 91% on my log fuu

rupture uptime

and it was rank 65

[runic sable]

91 is bigger than 86

[keen dirge]

[polar igloo]

I did have 100% snd uptime tho

[runic sable]

but you got a point, rupture uptime does not need to be 100%

[polar igloo]

Yeah

[runic sable]

but its good to keep an eye on it

[polar igloo]

It should be higher than that however

[runic sable]

as it still does more dps

[polar igloo]

there is enough downtime between dances

to apply ruptures

(which is the only time I apply it)

[keen dirge]

I will do another st boss after as kyr

[polar igloo]

and mika

[runic sable]

pls do strike-snd-symbols-er-dance

[polar igloo]

and MoS

[polar igloo]

roast me

[runic sable]

btw. the log cheated

this way i can't complain about pv stacks

[keen dirge]

😄 lul

[polar igloo]

yeah

[runic sable]

symbols after er

[polar igloo]

[keen dirge]

I shall lol

[polar igloo]

in the grand scheme I lost like 5dps for sure

[runic sable]

2nd roast

dance-finish

but unsure how your dance cdr was at that point

[polar igloo]

at that point

finisher would bring it off cd

[runic sable]

ye, i assume thats fine

[polar igloo]

because of the finisher > Bs > finisher before

animacharge on the 2nd finisher

[runic sable]

the log above on halondrus

you can usually rly just glue yourself to theboss

[polar igloo]

you can post up

you don't have to move ever

[runic sable]

only time you need to run out is when you get the debuff

and then you can sprint-cloak-step

what shouldn't rly cause to much downtime

(unless your raid team can push the boss fast, in what case you probably just instant dispel it on melees)

[keen dirge]

I had debuff there

[runic sable]

i am fairly certain er was delayed here

[polar igloo]

I had it too

I just cloaked where I stood

[runic sable]

kieron

i run soothing on halondrus

because else i die to healers not being able to keep up

[polar igloo]

[runic sable]

well its not that bad anymore but for first 3 weeks i had to

[polar igloo]

psure eyo could solo heal te 18 man group

[keen dirge]

okay this skolex isnt working I need to tank I will get another log after xD

[runic sable]

but ye kieron has a good point

there is so much downtime

[polar igloo]

@keen dirgehttps://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GRw13kQyJMYdtrDb#fight=5&type=casts&view=timeline&source=16

[runic sable]

in the log, you rly need to try to stick on the target

[polar igloo]

can go thru this timeline

I had zero downtime

stuck to boss the whole time

and didn't make many, if any, rotational errors

[keen dirge]

I changed to sb + er macro and a dance + sod macro

[runic sable]

time to rost kieron

i see 2 not used anima charged cp

[polar igloo]

when you proc out the bazoonga

2/5 CP WHERE

only time I hit 2cp was with a ShT proc right after

[runic sable]

time to use a stopattack macro ^^

[polar igloo]

[keen dirge]

okay we didnt kill skolex but I was doing things better maybe xD

[polar igloo]

show

[keen dirge]

uploading

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rb1MpRF4gkQayDCw/#fight=61 best pull prob

either this one or the one before

but the 3rd pull I took a rend and was panicking lol

[keen dirge]

okay uhhh

I can explain

[keen dirge]

the first part was shit later on it wasnt bad tho

felt like I was dropping stacks before dancing

[runic sable]

tbh

i think if you want to use a visual indicator

[polar igloo]

all those 4 cp finishes

[runic sable]

you can add a "no dance, 4+ stacks" condition to make the bs icon show/glow

[keen dirge]

https://wago.io/dJhmwZTYn/7 this is the one I am using currently

[polar igloo]

do not use this button

[runic sable]

ye, you would need to modify it

[polar igloo]

[keen dirge]

I feel like maybe it is getting worse as the night goes on

[polar igloo]

concentrate on the fundamentals

[keen dirge]

no raids up I am gonna hit a dummy for a bir

[runic sable]

it takes time to adjust

[keen dirge]

and try to not have brain dmg for a sec

[runic sable]

just give yourself a bit of time, and probably practice a bit on dummy

[polar igloo]

focus on the following:

Hitting animacharges reliably

8 globals in dancec

[runic sable]

i would go as far as to say you should for the time don't use the pv weakaura

[polar igloo]

spending PV stacks correctly

[runic sable]

but just use bs between dances

[polar igloo]

use ER on cooldown (not during dance)

get in the habit of hitting your 8 globals in dance, then looking at cp and deciding to finish > bs

or bs > finish

get as high rupture uptime as possible whilst not reapplying during dance

so either refresh before dance in pandemic, or after it falls off after dance

[keen dirge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FcbrfXVxvLatPzwH/#fight=last&view=timeline&type=casts&source=1&start=259079&end=1138124 sat at a dummy for a while

[polar igloo]

can SS > rupture

don't need the BS in opener

can even

SS > SoD + ER > Rupture

Dance

[keen dirge]

doesnt matter that it wont be a 4+ cp rupture just a 2cp one?

[polar igloo]

SS > SoD will get a 7/6cp one for sure

unless you get a WM proc on first SS

then you just straight up Rupture

[keen dirge]

true

[polar igloo]

from a quick glance

it happens

double rupture like a mf is v annoying

but usually should only be like

when you brain fart on a 4p proc

which I did a lot when I got 4p

[keen dirge]

pretty sure I lost brain cells and did a 1cp snd at first

and then reapplied at 4cp