#panda log review
bitter bay
late nebula
I think you would really benefit from spending some time reading through the wowhead opener or whatever other guide and practicing several times on a dummy until it's muscle memory
sand oyster
Snd uptime: 85% and Rupture uptime: 78%
but ya, you're definitely at the stage where just practicing the rotation on a training dummy would prob be the best way to get better
calm hornet
that was one thing I was struggling with
I heard something about if blades is active only use eviscerate
how accurate is that?
calm hornet
Also saw someone just mention in the other channel about not using BS during dance utilizing PV, which makes sense because of the macro.
sand oyster
maybe you heard if Dance is active only use Evis?
late nebula
Also saw someone just mention in the other channel about not using BS during dan...
yeah don't worry about this kind of thing
calm hornet
maybe there was a communication gap
this kind of thing being the macro or being the utilizing pv?
late nebula
if you're using PV, rule to always follow is backstab between each dance to consume charges, then go into your next dance if you're going to dance
late nebula
snd should be 100%, rupture can be 90%
calm hornet
I rmeember the classic max cp snd vs 1 cp snd if it was going to fall off
late nebula
but ideally close to 100
calm hornet
right
sand oyster
ya, just don't BS in dance for now, once you get a lot more comfortable with the rotation you can worry about PV and BS in dance
late nebula
I rmeember the classic max cp snd vs 1 cp snd if it was going to fall off
should never be using low cp finishers as venthyr, 5 or 6cp always
So if you have c.10 seconds left on snd or rupture and you see symbols and flag are coming up soon, just fill cp and refresh them to make sure they're not going to fall off while dancing
sand oyster
just let SnD fall off and get to 5/6 cp to refresh
calm hornet
I was practicing last night and would struggle with the macro I think still
that was what stood out to me the most, I have like 40-80 backstabs on a fight vs someone with ~20-40
sand oyster
what is this macro
late nebula
are you comparing venthyr logs though? kyrian will always have many more strikes
calm hornet
#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab; Gloomblade
I am
I'm comparing as close to "me" as I can in terms of ilvl, covenant, fight, etc
I use my racial more than I probably should wasting a gcd I think
sand oyster
oh, might be your macro but the biggest thing is you aren't casting your dances
sand oyster
not necessarily on CD, but you def shouldn't let them stay at 2 charges
calm hornet
I have streams I could probably look at if I let them get to 2 charges
I wouldn't be surprised if I did
hopefully not on skolex of all fights, but yea.
Like I hold cd's on halondrus a looooot
sand oyster
you 100% hit 2 charges
you'll get less dances with Venth, but for example the other rogue in my guild got 12 dances in a ~3 min skolex as Kyr and you had 8 dances
calm hornet
right
sand oyster
and he only has 2 set as well
calm hornet
because of the crits/things that reducses dance CD ya?
with kyrian buffing that w/ evis ccps?
late nebula
Like I hold cd's on halondrus a looooot
Don't hold cds, it's not how the spec works, you can hold symbols for flag for like 15 seconds or vice versa
calm hornet
yea, thats what I was trying to do on the dummy last night
only hold for ~15 seconds
so if flag/dance is at ~26 seconds or ~45 seconds, just don't hold yea? Just always popping them on cd?
no windows or anything?
sand oyster
right now, I'd just say press your CDs as soon as you see them up
calm hornet
also, seriously, I appreciate y'all greatly
is there a good dummy to practice on? I was doing logs in venth, but it would pull other people around me and show me doing like 10 or 300 dps lmao
details was acting odd as well, fully updated.
calm hornet
yea, that's why bs count stood out to me and macro
late nebula
There are windows, especially as venthyr, but all cds are very short compared to other classes:
You should always have 1 charge of dance ready as symbols comes off cd.
You should likewise have symbols (nearly) ready and dance ready as flag comes up so you can flag>finish, go into a normal symbols dance
late nebula
is there a good dummy to practice on? I was doing logs in venth, but it would pu...
go hit the one in orgrimmar in the arena thing towards the back
calm hornet
I think those CD's lining up is where I struggle, likely from me not paying attention
late nebula
yeah it takes time to get used to
calm hornet
I know it's not a set up issue at the moment, but thoughts on shadowgrasp totem vs other trinks I have available or just trust raidbots?
its feels soooo much different now compared to 9.0
sand oyster
honestly just press everything but dance on CD for now and you'll increase your DPS way more than trying to line them up
late nebula
"ok symbols is up in 10 seconds, do I have a charge of dance ready/will be ready in 10 seconds?" if the answer is no you've messed up somewhere
calm hornet
everything but dance?
late nebula
are you using weakauras to track things?
sand oyster
biggest thing with Dance is making sure you don't stay capped at 2 charges
cuz you'll still be getting the CD reduction even if you have 1 charge
late nebula
yeah ok that's great
sand oyster
I know it's not a set up issue at the moment, but thoughts on shadowgrasp totem ...
trust raidbots and shadowgrasp is a fine trinket
also try and practice with Kyr
it is pretty far ahead on ST at this point
calm hornet
yea, I've been leveling it up yesterday. Didn't get the soulbind fully unlocked/mythic guardian today is why I'm still on venth
sand oyster
ya tht should be fine
and even in pure ST venth isn't so far behind that it'll realistically hurt y'alls progression
calm hornet
always use raiders training dummy yea?
sand oyster
just make sure it isn't the tanking dummy lol
like i said, dps isn't what you should be focusing on, the rotation is
after a while go back and check on your SnD/Rupture uptime
sand oyster
doesn't really matter
calm hornet
kk
sand oyster
just take a break to go look back at how you did after a couple minutes
calm hornet
ss snd blades, dance, symbols, flag, rupture, ss evis ss evis? yea?
sand oyster
ss - snd - blades - dance - ss (till u get 5/6 cp) - flag - rupture - symbols - normal rotation
as long as symbols is around when you cast flag it's fine
calm hornet
any reason for symbols after vs before finisher?
sand oyster
i think symbols after finisher is like a tiny bit better, but it's such a small difference don't worry about it for now
calm hornet
kk
way better
I was hovering ~9k vs 7-8k
11 backstabs vs 8 ss in 3 minutes though
sand oyster
wut was SnD/Rupture/FW uptime?
calm hornet
unless im misreading details
I dropped rupture at one point
I need I need to fix my WA to show rupture on my target frame
whats fw?
sand oyster
oh, when u cast vanish it will break up the fight in details cuz u go out of combat
fw = Find Weakness
sand oyster
so the 11 BS vs 8 SS is just what happened after your vanish
sand oyster
50 BS vs 32 SS?
calm hornet
I'm loooking at the one that had me at 9.2k vs 7k as things were falling off
50 ss vs 32 bs
sand oyster
ah
calm hornet
calm hornet
yea, I think it's the first time it was compared to my logs
got those numbers reversed
I appreciate y'all immensely.
sand oyster
so for comparison with 2pc the other rogue in my guild got 61 SS and 21 BS in a 3 min Skolex kill
that's also with Kyr so it'll be a little higher than you can expect with Venth
calm hornet
my heroic parses kinda stuck around, which is why I'm so frustrated now. mind you heroic, but yea.
sand oyster
but that gives you an idea of the goal u should reach
calm hornet
yea, definitely have work to do
wonder what I would've missed there, I did this on 3 minutes
oh I had one situation in this 1 3 minute example
I think I had like... 10 seconds on dance or symbols, and wasn't sure if I should wait
as well as isn't there a thought/need to pooling energy before dancing?
sand oyster
if ur gonna have symbols, definitely not
calm hornet
so if I have 10 seconds on symbols and dance is up, just pop dance?
sand oyster
oh sry, i meant that about energy pooling
calm hornet
ah okay
sand oyster
and if you would have another dance for that symbols, then yes go ahead and pop the dance 10 seconds before
calm hornet
lot of niche situations.
sand oyster
just make sure u get 1 full dance during your Symbols
calm hornet
but not at the expense of holding two because that just shouldn't happen yea?
sand oyster
yep
calm hornet
kk
sand oyster
if you're at 2 then just use one
bitter bay
you usually should use a charge before you get to two
sand oyster
u probably did something wrong, and the best thing to do at that point is just send one
calm hornet
right
with deeper strategem always 5+ finishers yea? unless rupture or snd about to fall off?
sand oyster
just always 5+ finisher
calm hornet
I had issues of hitting 4 cp then either "7" or not.
energy capping/wasting CP, stuff like that
sand oyster
overcapping CP by 1-2 is better than finishing at 4 (unless it's Kyr charged obv)
calm hornet
makes sense
any thoughts when it comes to mashing? in terms of like.... I feel like I have some times I press a finisher, and go back to builders but the finisher doesn't go off
just chill out and slow down a little?
sand oyster
pretty much
calm hornet
makes sense
I've always been able to come back and do above average/hold my own. Something about this tier/something threw me off. I really really really appreciate all of your help and info.
sand oyster
most likely your just GCD locking your finisher and then queue up a builder before the finisher actually goes off
calm hornet
Like, beyond grateful.
that makes sense
vanish is good to throw into the rotation right? or not really?
free ss?
calm hornet
I'll be streaming our mythic tonight, y'all can watch your help in action/how awful I am xD
gotcha
bitter bay
thats good
calm hornet
I had some thought of crit increase and things of that sort
bitter bay
i like vanish as a mobility/cheese cooldown
calm hornet
obv the ss use but yea, i thought there was more too it, maybe that was my assassination brain from 9.0?
sand oyster
but it can be nice to make sure FW doesn't run out or using it to TP
bitter bay
pre pull snd 📈
calm hornet
pre pull snd is the leggo cheese or whatever right?
bitter bay
there are often also raid mechanics or dungeon mechanics you can cheese with vanish
calm hornet
any examples listed anywhere for that?
sand oyster
using it on Halondrus to strike right back to him after the knockback 
calm hornet
using it on Halondrus to strike right back to him after the knockback <:pog:7189...
that sounds way better than shadow step 😮
sand oyster
any examples listed anywhere for that?
too many to list, just try it for stuff where the boss is targeting you
sand oyster
that sounds way better than shadow step 😮
you have to time it right tho, if you do it too early you just use the SS and keep flying out
will only TP if you're out of melee range
calm hornet
right
sand oyster
like dag laser?
u know the MC'd tree guys in Mists that trap you? u can vanish that cast cuz they have to target you
stuff like that
sand oyster
which is Dag laser
calm hornet
the thing that targets you and people stack in front of
and in heroic/mythic get a debuff that kills if people stack again
like halls anima beast charge?
sand oyster
idk, some of those just mark you as the target and it stays even with vanish
idk if there's a list anywhere, but if there is it'll be really long lol
sand oyster
👍