Tremonra Log | Ravenholdt | Page 1

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:22 AM

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Tasty

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aight lets take a look

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:23 AM

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okay, just saying, I did get a bit of new gear, as well as getting my conduits to 252 today

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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Have you considered playing mfd?

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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I have, but haven't looked too much into it

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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and not running katar

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MonkaS

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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Yeahhhh.... Forgot about that....

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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I would also check on theotar

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theotar is good

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:24 AM

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I just switched to Theotar today to see what it can do

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I'm assuming Lethal poisons would be a better replacement for Poisoned Katar in ST?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:26 AM

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super minor thing, but you are overcapping with mutilate fairly regularly (in order of appearance), nerzul, tarragrue, eye, etc etc

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it's not a lot of CP

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but that number should always be 0

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:26 AM

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Hmm, interesting

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:26 AM

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and it rarely is

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the nine here, garrote overcap also should be 0

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:27 AM

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dusky flax I'm assuming Lethal poisons would be a better replacement for Poisoned Katar in ...

yap

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:27 AM

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What about Maim, Mangle, cause that ones 252 while LP is not, and yeah, I remember doing garrote and messing up on which one I put it on

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:27 AM

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maim mangle ain't good unless you're running doomblade

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:27 AM

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Ahh, okay

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So get LP to 252, got it

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:28 AM

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I am seeing some energy overcap stuff, but it looks mechanic-run-away-from-boss type thing

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make sure you dump before you gotta move

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:28 AM

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Yeah, I almost always forget to do that every single time, I think one time during Guardian I somehow got Oblit, so had to run away and cloak

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:28 AM

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A major thing I can add is you should sync vendetta / flag on guardian if you do it with the same group

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:29 AM

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but aside from that, the basic stuff looking okay

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so that's good

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:29 AM

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Thats good at least

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:29 AM

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we get to the meat though

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this ain't good chief

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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Time spend casting?? hmm?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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this is on guardian, also not good

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each bar is shiv

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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Oh SHIT

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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you see how uneven they are

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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Meaning I'm losing time, got it

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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and how there's some really long gaps

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that's a no no

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shiv is a slam on cooldown type thing

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:30 AM

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I might want to switch my shiv keybind to be easier to access, not to mention be able to instantly see it

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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you hold it a little bit to line up with vendetta

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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So Imma move it to three, see if it helps

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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but aside from that, just hit it

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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but only up to 10 seconds, correct?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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yeh

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:31 AM

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hmm, okay

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Then theres flag, which needs to be held only if it'll be able to line up during vend, and if it gets another cast then use it iirc

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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kind of a min-maxy thing here but as a quick note: fusion amp does benefit from haste, so moving it into the flag is actually a gain

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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dusky flax Then theres flag, which needs to be held only if it'll be able to line up during...

yeah flag and vend only sync if you're not losing casts

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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Wait, seriously? thats nuts

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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yeah some effects are "hasted"

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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You did do that rest of the fight just not on pull

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:32 AM

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meaning the proc rate goes up with your haste

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fusion amp is one of those

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shadowgrasp totem as well

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:33 AM

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So, instead of using Amp immediately after my first mut, use it right before I use flag? or right after?

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And then keep using my agil pot immediately?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:33 AM

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ideally you would get max usage if you cast it 4 seconds into flag

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agi pot with flag is fine

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with vendetta is good too

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:33 AM

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K, okay

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:34 AM

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uptimes in general look good though, don't really see too much issue with rupture/garrote

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:34 AM

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If you raid with the same team just check logs and decide before the fight if you're popping flag on CD or syncing

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:34 AM

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envenom uptime looks good too

north aurora Dec 4, 2021, 5:34 AM

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vestal stirrup shiv is a slam on cooldown type thing

How should we handle that with boss mechanics? For example I press shiv but can only use it for like 3-4s before there is a downtime

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Just slam it anyway?

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:34 AM

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north aurora How should we handle that with boss mechanics? For example I press shiv but can ...

agreed

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:35 AM

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north aurora How should we handle that with boss mechanics? For example I press shiv but can ...

its better to get a bad shiv than no shiv

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:35 AM

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as far as I know we do don't we?

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Right, makes sense

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:35 AM

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5 minute + is usually pop on CD and less is sync generally

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Fight duration

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:35 AM

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Yeah, at this point we usually aren't 5+ minutes anymore, not on many fights that is

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:35 AM

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yeh

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if it's under 4:45, you would sync

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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Hmm, ok

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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so instead of pull, 1:30, 3

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it would be pull, 2, 4

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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oh?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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cause vendetta/vanish is pull, 2, 4

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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Yeah, right

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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you wouldn't miss a cast that way

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:36 AM

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And since I'm able to hold Flag for 30 seconds, I'd be fine that way, therefore making me burst higher

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:37 AM

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correct

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another good way to think about it which helped me

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is to remember that everything in wow is a multiplier

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if you have 2 buffs, of 30% damage + 20% damage, that's not 50% damage

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:37 AM

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Also if the fight is between 5 and 6 minutes you'd hold your last vendetta to sync it with your last flag cast, instead of slamming it at 4 minutes into the fight

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:37 AM

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that's 56% damage

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because it's 1.3 * 1.2

north aurora Dec 4, 2021, 5:38 AM

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vestal stirrup its better to get a bad shiv than no shiv

Ok, even if I can get back to boss like quite fast? Like right now on sylvanas I have shiv right when she is about to cast darkness (p1) so I'll be back on here after 2-4s but after shiv ended if I used it before

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:38 AM

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so whenever you can stack cooldowns

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it's a good thing

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:38 AM

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Right, what should I do with Amp? hold it along with Flag?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:38 AM

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north aurora Ok, even if I can get back to boss like quite fast? Like right now on sylvanas I...

if you're quick about it, you can hold it, but it's pretty situational

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if you're gone for like 8 seconds every veil

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and you do 3 veils

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that's a full shiv you've held onto

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:39 AM

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dusky flax Right, what should I do with Amp? hold it along with Flag?

Same logic as flag, if you don't get an extra cast just sync it

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:40 AM

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dusky flax Right, what should I do with Amp? hold it along with Flag?

trinkets aren't buffed by damage amplifiers, just versatility, and in some cases like fusion amp, haste. So the same rules apply generally, but because they aren't affected by things as much, you can kinda get away with having it on cooldown

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if you're not missing a cast though

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no reason to not hold it

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and get a little more out of the flag haste

north aurora Dec 4, 2021, 5:40 AM

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Got it, i guess I need to watch replays and get better feeling for timings, I think right now only 2nd veils is awkward like that

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:40 AM

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So, since I most likely won't miss a cast if I hold it for 30 seconds, then I can hold it with flag and wait for big bursty moment

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:40 AM

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yeah

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flag and fusion amp are both 1:30 cooldowns

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so if you hold flag, you hold fusion

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:41 AM

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And, its usually better just to hold it in general now that my raid is nuking the bosses down?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:41 AM

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the rule is to cast stuff on cooldown if you aren't sure about the timing

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:41 AM

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Right, which is what I've been doing

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:41 AM

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yeah

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and that's perfectly fine

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goes back to that "better to get a bad X than to get no X" type thing

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:42 AM

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Right

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:42 AM

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but if you're trying to parse and stuff

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then small things add up

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:42 AM

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Hmm, are there any other major things besides the shiv and holding the cooldowns that I need to focus on?

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Fuck, right, the new talents, hmm

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:43 AM

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yeah just the talent/soulbind stuff

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the shiv/cooldown things

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:44 AM

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So why use MFD over Vigor? just better combo points?

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:44 AM

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and that weird little overcapping thing making sure you're not casting muts on 4+, or garrotes on 5

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mfd during flag is big

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:44 AM

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Right, it could mean the difference between me getting 25 and 20

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:44 AM

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yeh

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essentially the gameplay is flag + mfd, mfd, mfd, flag + mfd, mfd, mfd

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over and over

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if you can get resets that's sick too

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adds on the eye for example are sick

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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Oh, its a 30 second cooldown too

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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chains on sylv are sick

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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fatescribe

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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ph2 sylv is sick for MfD aswell

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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Meaning I can literally use it along WITH shiv too

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:45 AM

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ye

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:46 AM

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Simmin time, lets see if its better lol

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So MFD, is it better even in M+?

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Oh crap, its almost 100 dps better

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:46 AM

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you wouldn't play it in m+ no

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it might sim better

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:47 AM

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93 to be exact, WHEW

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:47 AM

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but the sniping isn't really important tbh

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I could see it maybe being a thing on spiteful

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but like

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even then it's a pretty hard sell tbh

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:47 AM

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So what do I do about the loss of the huge amounts of energy?

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:48 AM

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You mean 10% energy regen

vestal stirrup Dec 4, 2021, 5:48 AM

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it's just slower

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but it's not too bad

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:48 AM

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Hmm

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not to mention, I'm sure Dashing Scoundrel helps quite a bit with it as well

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:48 AM

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The only really slow part is the opener

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:48 AM

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Really?

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oh crap, whats the opener, TO THE FAQ

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Also, would I now be pooling to 80?

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or 100

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:49 AM

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90ish or just maintain envenom buff

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:49 AM

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okay

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:49 AM

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either way

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:50 AM

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Opener is mut / snd / mut / garrote / flag / rupture / shiv / vanish / mut / envenom / mut etc

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:50 AM

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right, but where would MFD work into that equation?

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I've memorized the base, but have no clue where MFD would go at all

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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it just needs to go in flag, usually it goes vanish mut envenom mfd envenom

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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Hmm, okay

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wait, Vanish, mut, Env, mfd, envenom

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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mfd is off gcd

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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OH

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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If you do MfD after the MA you get more flag stacks though

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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meaning, that instead of that second mut I usually do, just replace it with MFD

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:51 AM

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So idk which is better

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:52 AM

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dusky flax meaning, that instead of that second mut I usually do, just replace it with MFD

yeah

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tiny changes to the opener are super minimal dps

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:52 AM

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This'll be, FUN to learn

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:52 AM

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you end up with high flag stacks either way

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:53 AM

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LOL, dummy target feels abused, 31k opener

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But that'll undoubtedly be different on an actual bossfight

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:53 AM

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Yeah most of the time using mfd after MA i overcap on flag stacks

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:53 AM

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Do you really?

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:53 AM

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so maybe just using the MA proc on envenom is better, but never tried

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:53 AM

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also, I did notice how much slower the opener was just now

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I couldn't press garrote immediately at all anymore

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:54 AM

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next talon so maybe just using the MA proc on envenom is better, but never tried

its what we normally recommend in the opener but its not that significant, you basically end up with 28-30 most of the time in opener

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:55 AM

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dusky flax I couldn't press garrote immediately at all anymore

if ur belf you can use arcane torrent for 15 energy to speed it up a little

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:55 AM

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Nope lol, I'm Velf

stiff thistle Dec 4, 2021, 5:56 AM

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i guess ur waiting then

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peeposhrug

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:56 AM

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Yup

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I mean, I still open for 22k without pot on a dummy, so

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I just need to get into the habit of replacing the second mut after vanish

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:57 AM

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You for sure used the wrong dummy though

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 5:58 AM

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Lol, okay

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Trainin dummy first, guess I should switch to raider's

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 5:59 AM

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Doesn't change how the rotation feels just the numbers

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22k is not realistic with your gear and no pot/hero/consumables/winds of winter

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 6:01 AM

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Right

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I switched to the raider's

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and hit 19k without pots, so

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My true test shall arrive next tuesday

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Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it

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I've just gotta get some more visual ques to track some other things better

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or possibly move a few things around

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 6:04 AM

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Happy if I helped in any way

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 6:04 AM

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Oh you did

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I fully plan on doing far more dmg than I did last tuesday

next talon Dec 4, 2021, 6:06 AM

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If you're feeling spicy

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Try DS/BS on guardian

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It's actually quite fun and it fits the fight perfectly

dusky flax Dec 4, 2021, 6:07 AM

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Nope!

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