9.2 Feedback and Discussion

[deep sleet]

i feel like 4 targets, sudden fracturs could be pog

[stiff fossil]

lethal poisons will probably still be better

because of the 2pc

[deep sleet]

gah dammit tru

gotta dust off my gemstone weakaura

[molten ore]

????

So you can test double legendaries just fine then yes?

[pale roost]

Yes

Just use the unity belt instead

[molten ore]

Yeah that’s what I was doing

[wraith sphinx]

lethal poisons is only instant poison dmg tho

thats like

almost nothing

[stiff fossil]

Why are you yelling at me

[wraith sphinx]

im not

im whispering

asmr like

[stiff fossil]

[mint current]

yea sudden fractures is really fine

[wraith sphinx]

fix suddenfractures bug please thanks

[stiff fossil]

Is it though? It’s bugged

[deep sleet]

whats the bug?

[weary nacelle]

Not convinced 2pc needed a nerf unless we're gonna see nerfs to demo and fire

[wooden wharf]

that is the thing, you can't rly compare atm hence a lot of those set bonuses are not balanced

i just remind you that wl when it was totally busted and #1 or #2 in dps on every fight did say

there is a certain amount of fights that we are not #1 on, and hence we are not broken/op

i don't think its a healthy approach, but its one that is easy to fall into

[dry night]

I get what you mean but I have faith in daddy Scar when he said that they are going to work on tuning and balancing base classes/specs after getting tier to around the same %'s

[eager sigil]

did the assa opener change in any way on ptr

[pale roost]

Yes, quite a lot

[azure pilot]

Necro is still dead for assa even with zyldock insignia ,right?

[dry night]

necro will use dusk

if it's gonna be good some of us will find out in a bit

[molten ore]

The thing is that a lot of it isn’t even just the tier bonuses making some specs broken beyond measure, it’s the double legendaries as well

[wooden wharf]

thats correct too

[molten ore]

But hopefully all will be right with the world before patch

[dry night]

sbs dot kinda nutty so far

[wooden wharf]

double legendary balance can be delayed as it won't be relevant for the early progression

[rose grail]

nothing is dead. patch is still in tuning mode.

[wooden wharf]

necro looks rly good in m+ too

[rose grail]

m+ and some of the cleave fights

if anything kyrian on the surface looks to be dead for assa but we shall see.

[dry night]

i'm ngl

this fight is nuts

my slice is dropping

@pale roost are you testing rn ?

[pale roost]

No unfort.

[dry night]

dang i have no homies to ask or help from

I'm topping dam right now as necro but i'm playing it so sloppy it's not even funny

[sterile swift]

[dry night]

It's too much dude

[sterile swift]

It can do that with a lot of adds and shit

I still fuck it up

[dry night]

the 4p makes it impossible to keep dots on stuff and track

i swapped back to koryan

[wooden wharf]

good nameplate configurations and addons like https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/enemy-grid could help

[weary nacelle]

What's the thinking on multidotting during vendetta. Not worth until it falls?

[dry night]

i have solid plater setup (modified cev's) it's just that the 4p makes it quite hard to spread bleeds and maintain dam on the prio target

[weary nacelle]

Yeah I cast envenom 0 times in final phase

Too busy rerupturing and crimson

[dry night]

yeah it's crazy

[weary nacelle]

Need to force an env for snd eventually

[dry night]

and we hard energy cap with just 2 targets

not even in vend

or at least i did full gemming haste

oh kekw i know why now nevermind me

[weary nacelle]

Mastery fight tbh

[molten ore]

Topping dam with how much dps? Just gimme a range

Also have you been logging your testing

[dry night]

12-13k

yeah

[molten ore]

Would you mind sharing with the class?

[dry night]

i can after yeah

[molten ore]

[lethal hull]

that was top damage?

[dry night]

on some pulls yeah

[molten ore]

Yeah I’m seeing a lot of other specs doing 17-20k dps

Maybe not a lot, but some

[dry night]

I mean you can burst that yeah

[lethal hull]

no sustain

like DH

[dry night]

i'd like to play with those DH's then

[lethal hull]

Venthyr DH

deleted that boss

[wooden wharf]

dh is quite strong atm ^^

[dry night]

i believe it

i'm thinking their tier gets nerfed too

[wooden wharf]

tuning is just very hit or miss on ptr testing

and it shows, its also the reason devs tell people to not cross compare atm

(what people still do)

for what its worth, i would advice everyone to stay critical with tuning

i just remind everyone that subtlety was assumed one of the best melee dps early in SL due to tuning in beta

and only ended up middle of the pack/lower 3rd on release

[dry night]

yeah i agree with that

also mechanics

and such

and people use cheese gear sometimes

[molten ore]

Venthyr fire mage

[dry night]

like my fcm is def over performing because it's scaled to raid gear

[molten ore]

Yeah we are, simply pointing out observations 🙃

It’s funny how much some are doing

[wooden wharf]

tbh its fun to comment on ptr testing and complain about the current op

[molten ore]

[wooden wharf]

there is a valid concern that dh will be just a better rogue in 9.2

[molten ore]

Tbh I think there’s valid concern for warlock, mage and feral as well

[wooden wharf]

9.2 has a lot of melees that are good atm

ret paladin too

[molten ore]

Yeah

[wooden wharf]

the problem is that there is only a small amount of melee slots

[molten ore]

As long as we’re the best at boss damage, we will continue to fill that role I think

Feral just does the same thing with more utility

[dry night]

i guess the dh in my group is just buns cuz on the guardian add fight he's only doing 12.7

as nf

I'm doing 15k

[wooden wharf]

one thing to consider is that pure damage was less a concern in the last race

the current raid had no hard dps checks, what allowed higher dynamic with dps

[dry night]

yeah and rogue's best shot is needing prio damage for checks

[wooden wharf]

subtlety brings funnel

assassiantion with the tier set has rly strong low target cleave

so there are some niches that rogue can shine

[molten ore]

Yeah I think our sustained cleave is going to be a lot better

[dry night]

idk i'm doing more on this fight consistently than this other sub rogue and he has a dagger

[molten ore]

But is he good at the game tho

I haven’t tested sub yet since double legendaries hit the PTR

I was doing 11k sustained on dummies as sin with a couple pieces of the 272 pvp gear

[dry night]

yeah he's fine

our tier is just better

[molten ore]

Hmm

[proper veldt]

Dagger was doing negative damage every time I’ve tested

Idk why, double dagger and it’s doing like half as much as on live

[molten ore]

Weird

[dry night]

yeah it's doing less than his phial

[molten ore]

Maybe it was shadow nerfed for 9.2

[proper veldt]

Entirely possible

[dry night]

i'd believe it

otherwise yeah sub would have a mtyhic off hand the whole tier right?

[proper veldt]

Correct

[dry night]

welp my conclusion of the day is that Korayn is probably better than necro for add fights

and managing dots in multi cleave is near impossible

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z2z7GQjvqL1Npk3r/

@molten ore

[rocky carbon]

korayn

[dry night]

I mean sbs slaps if you are cracked enough to manage it i think

[rose grail]

i wouldn’t expect to have managing sbs mastered after one test

[dry night]

it's not like it's my first time playing necro

if anything i've played more NF during testing than I have in retail and getting better results than expected

[pale roost]

If Deathspike wasn't dog tier, then it would probably be pretty nice

Still kinda annoying that you have to go to Oribos to change your covenant

[dry night]

yeah agreed

[pale roost]

I would love to change every fight, but that's not happening with how the system works now

[dry night]

I mean if you have your soulbinds pre-set then you could just hearth and get a lock sum back so it'd take all of 30 seconds to swap

[molten ore]

for prog it might work

but farm nah

[proper veldt]

Korayn actually kinda goated on some of these fights

[dry night]

yeah it is

[rose grail]

we’re arms warriors now

[molten ore]

ty btw

[proper veldt]

Man fuck night fae

[rose grail]

lol

[proper veldt]

Why’s it gotta be good

[rose grail]

they put on the cat ears

does it really matter? or do you just not want to play fae

[pale roost]

He's just a hater

Doesn't like Sepsis or TO for whatever reason.

[rose grail]

covenant loyalty was so 9.0-9.1. good news is you have comp stomp in a week or two. lol

[proper veldt]

Venthyr makes more sense

[rose grail]

if you enjoy getting whipped by Daddy D sure

[weary nacelle]

Do we not have a last two bosses wep this tier?

That's kinda pog

[weary nacelle]

If the new vita trinket is good you're gonna have to be NF to stay in windfury group

[proper veldt]

[lean glen]

nf masterrace

[rocky carbon]

nochill cant be right

he cant

[proper veldt]

tier set can revive dead covenants

I wonder if it can bring my step dad back

[stiff fossil]

bro?

[proper veldt]

I've been hurt before

[stiff fossil]

[wraith sphinx]

i wonder if it cna bring back whispyr to assa

[rose grail]

degen sub spec. can play it again when legion classic come out.

[proper veldt]

will you welcome me back father

[wraith sphinx]

[TBD]

[rose grail]

tier 3 sub to be welcomed back.

[scenic saddle]

so whispyr is sipping the NF juice?

[dry night]

He's coming around

Because NF means no mfd

[stiff fossil]

ye sign me up

for some ep/ds

if I have to sepsis I will

[dry night]

It's not as terrible as it seems. You just press it and shiv your sorrows away

[tepid sky]

Time to level up night fae

[deep sleet]

were there new sims?

[proper veldt]

no because obedience is still cucked

@pale roost found another what, 120 dps? for fae

by changing talents

and the subterfuge optimization that was talked about a while ago

ambush back on the table type beat

[deep sleet]

....blindside?

[proper veldt]

no

just ambush

ep/subt/deeper on fae

looks spicy

[deep sleet]

interesting

[proper veldt]

ambush from subt I should say

just gear things making it usable

as well as subterfuge making ambush making closer to mut

but yeh

reposting this here for the vibe

[deep sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blown-shocked-face-whoa-really-wow-gif-17146534

[proper veldt]

better find an ambush bind

[deep sleet]

idk why but ive always kept it on 4

even though i only use it on one boss the entire tier

[deep sleet]

wait this ability doesnt even do damage with the fucking conduit

why are we entertaining NF this is illegal

[proper veldt]

now you see my pain

[deep sleet]

how can the ability be worse, and the soulbinds are worse

something foul is afoot

[proper veldt]

the ability does big damies

it's like 8.5% dps or something

insano levels of deeps

shiv + 2 piece is a double buff for sepsis

first the nature buff

then the poison buff

[deep sleet]

i think im only going to be able to spin this if i can actually get vendetta to a cleanly 45 second cooldown so its just one on/one off

[dry night]

You have a better chance of KA with NF too i think

[deep sleet]

is there a reason the current sim uses sepsis before shiv/vendetta? wouldnt that lose some of the benefit from 2pc/4pc/vendetta/shiv/conduit damage all together

obviously itd only really be one to two globals worth

[dry night]

you lose 1 global of sepsis and gain shiv on the sepsis explode

[deep sleet]

but like that dot needs to be juiced the whole way through id think?

oh the sepsis explodes

oh so thats how that ability works okay

[proper veldt]

The final tick is a big hit

[deep sleet]

didnt know it exploded LMFAO

[dry night]

Yeah I'm not 100% sure if it's better still after the conduit change but

[proper veldt]

It is

[dry night]

figures

[proper veldt]

The bonk at the end got some heft to it

We save vanish for it when running ma as well

[deep sleet]

very interested to see the results of these sims next week

especially with sub potentially getting nerfed next week

[dry night]

The thing is

I'm sure that venth is still better slightly on paper

But the fights suit Korayn so well

and NF is so much easier because of timing stuff

[proper veldt]

In case you didn’t hate it already, if you crit the sepsis cast, it still gives 1 cp, but the seal fate combo point will proc off the bonk at the end

[deep sleet]

what in the god damn

[proper veldt]

You just don’t know if it crits

Until 10 seconds later

When you randomly get a cp

Like a shadow tech proc

[dry night]

I mean at that point you'll have shadowblades too so would it proc an extra extra cp?

[deep sleet]

also just interested to seeing the opener rotation

this feels very unique

even feels different than nyalotha and its using the same focuses of damage

[proper veldt]

No, because shadowblade doesn’t apply to seal fate

And you wouldn’t get it at the start for the application cp

[dry night]

ah

well it does feel nice AF to vanish subt garrote during shadowblades for 2cp each

[proper veldt]

That’s why shadowblades mutilate only gives 3cp as well

Cause it’s “on cast”

And the cast is mutilate

Even though mutilate is 2 hits of 1 cp each

[proper veldt]

Blades works on garrote?

[dry night]

yessir

[proper veldt]

Crazy

That used to not be a thing

Because garrote doesn’t have an instant hit

But maybe that snuck in with the sepsis changes that sub got with blades in 9.0.5 or whatever

[dry night]

yeah must've

[proper veldt]

Cross spec abilities

[dry night]

and obviously nobody noticed since nobody played it xD

[deep sleet]

hey wait a second

you still dont need to do that

because sepsis would get dropped to a 5 second duration bleed

so all of it stays inside vendetta/shiv either way

🤔

[proper veldt]

Sepsis doesn’t work with 4 piece

Just 2 piece

From my knowledge

[deep sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-reynolds-goddammit-damn-hitmans-bodyguard-hitmans-bodyguard-gifs-gif-8352668

[dry night]

It's supposed to work with 4p

[proper veldt]

Yeah

[dry night]

I think they've marked it as a bug

[proper veldt]

Well “supposed”

[dry night]

alongside with sbs and doomblade

[proper veldt]

Who knows at this point tbh

[deep sleet]

would be pretty nifty

[proper veldt]

But I wrote about it in my tier set revisit post

[deep sleet]

would probably give us like.... 0.04% increase!

[proper veldt]

Which is long

Very long

Out soon.tm

[dry night]

soon ™️

my favorite

[dry night]

I think it'd be a bit more than this btw

but i get what you mean =]

Right now if you're shivving on cd you generally get half a shiv for the start of vend and half of it on the back end / snapshotted bleeds. So having sepsis sped up could make timing better

[deep sleet]

dumb question thats hard to ask, would we rather let a subterfuge garrote inside vendetta run out at the end of vendetta, or would we rather throw a normal garrote ontop of the subterfuged garrote to reapply a full pandemic (normal) garrote right before vendetta drops

not sure i asked that in a coherent manner but gl

[dry night]

yeah it's pretty normal question imo

I'm not sure about sim but i'd think that it's better to let empowered gar expire then reapply as close to instantly rather than reapply before

cuz you're overwriting 4 ticks at 2 seconds for example

[deep sleet]

not sure how powerful a 3-4 second subterfuged garrote is compared to a 8-9 second normal garrote

yeah

[dry night]

I think optimally you would want to let it expire

but it's worse to let it drop and then not instantly reapply than to overwrite

if that makes sense

[proper veldt]

Why is this a situation

[dry night]

vendetta subt garrote

[proper veldt]

The vanish garrote runs out well before vendetta finishes

[dry night]

let it drop and reapply or overwrite

[proper veldt]

You can pandemic stealth garrote with vanish garrote

[dry night]

yeah then after that one

[proper veldt]

Well it’s empowered so you let it expire

[dry night]

exactly

[deep sleet]

you could get an 11 second extended garrote for the overhang vendetta if you reapply a garrote at 6-7 seocnds of vendetta left

which would eat into the subt garrote

[dry night]

just let the empowered gar expire and reapply at 2s before vendetta ends or whatever it is

[proper veldt]

Garrote is 18 seconds, you gar snd ambush mut flag rup+vend, Thats 5 gcd’s before vendetta, 13 seconds left on Subt gar, turns into 6.5, you pandemic that with a vanish garrote which is 18/2 is 9 seconds, 9 and 6.5 is 15.5 seconds

You then gar that

And get 4.5 seconds overhang because the new gar is 18/2 again is 9, 4.5 seconds until vend falls off

[deep sleet]

FLAG?

[proper veldt]

Can do the same math with sepsis and it would only gain you half a second

The alternative would be to double gar from stealth and vanish, which would add a pandemics worth (or half a pandemics worth) of time onto them, which would be 2.7 seconds each, totaling back to 5.4, which would leave 0.9 seconds of overhang if you don’t refresh it

That’s one way to guarantee subt garrote through the whole thing

But double gar from subt is still really bad last I checked

[dry night]

what if you open with double gar + vend

i was thinking about that

[proper veldt]

Wdym

[dry night]

cringe

[proper veldt]

Like gar snd gar vend?

[dry night]

like literally rip vend on pull

gar vend

[proper veldt]

Oh god no

Putting vendetta up before rupture is a huge no no

[dry night]

well yes normally

but like 5 seconds of empowered gar

[proper veldt]

Yes normally but you think if we make vendetta stronger then that changes to mean we should prep for the vendetta less?

[dry night]

i know it's cringe but something that genuinely crossed my mind

[proper veldt]

You’re losing even more than normal by ripping it before rupture

I can’t see how that would viable

Like you’d need to gain something that overcomes an already insane loss

(Think it’s like 0.8%, it’s one of the bigger opener optimizations)

[dry night]

So gar snd ambush rupture vend?

[proper veldt]

And you’re hoping to achieve that by getting an extra maybe 3 seconds of a subt gar, while giving up the same 3 seconds of rupture

Seems not great

[proper veldt]

Yeh that seems like the sauce atm

[dry night]

yeah i get it like i said i knew it was cringe but my mind works like that you know

[deep sleet]

wait only ambush

or ambush mut

[proper veldt]

Ambush mut

[dry night]

so given -> gar snd ambush mut rup vend sepsis shiv, is the ambush much bigger than adding another gar ?

[proper veldt]

Yes

[dry night]

probably because of cp + instant dam right

[proper veldt]

Yeh

Getting 5 seconds of garrote just isnt worth without some giga buff

Shrouded made it worth cause it was like subterfuge on crack and gave a ton of cp

[dry night]

Ye the shrouded

[proper veldt]

But it’s never been worth ever outside of that

[dry night]

So my next question

after sepsis pops

and shadowblades

would it be worth to gar gar or still just gar ambush

during that vanish

[proper veldt]

Vanish after sepsis pops?

Why we vanishing after sepsis pops

[dry night]

Ye I was holding vanish for after sepsis for multi target on opener

Just trying different things ya know

[proper veldt]

I mean if you’re holding for multi target then you would gar every target once

I don’t see the point

[dry night]

Sooo uhhh yeah niya's poison is trash we all agree right

[deep sleet]

i really like the haste from dreamweaver

feels like it would lend itself further into the sepsis damage

[proper veldt]

But do you like

[deep sleet]

thats true pod might be annoying or a blessing

and idk how korayn really sounds to me

it never appealed to me in a raid scenario but i know it IS good

[scenic saddle]

first strike refreshing all the time is nice

[dry night]

try standing in flowers for any of these fights tho

[rocky carbon]

i always thought the soulbinds are just a math problem

[scenic saddle]

idk how the fights are gonna be, or how it plays onn rogue but

on other classes that can play korayn it just feels SO good

[rocky carbon]

except pod

[scenic saddle]

pod

[dry night]

Korayn is poggie

[rocky carbon]

fuck dreamweaver

[deep sleet]

you only really need the flowers for a short duration tbh

[rocky carbon]

all my homies hate dreamweaver

[scenic saddle]

standing on flowers is poggers

not standing on flowers is cringechamp

[dry night]

But you dont need flowers in the opener is the thing

you'd ideally need it after vend

[rocky carbon]

its never bad to stand in flowers

[deep sleet]

it still provides aton of haste to all of our dots in that time though

[dry night]

Yeah true

[rocky carbon]

pretty sure you would ideally want the flowers to come up right before you apply your last dots in vendetta

but doesnt really matter

[deep sleet]

well it will last for that time

last 18 seconds and vendetta is pretty close to that

[dry night]

No shot you get to stand in flowers for that time though on any of these bosses

[deep sleet]

close enough to snapshot the garrote and rupture before exiting vendetta

ehh idk

the bosses have pretty decent windows of damage

[dry night]

They do but why would you hold your sepsis until after they're in position or whatever

I mean dreamweaver still gets the 3% dam buff so it's fine even if you dont get high flower uptime i'm sure

[deep sleet]

for sure

but i think youre already holding sepsis a little bit to line it up with every other vendetta, yeah?

or do we full send like venthyr and cry about being outlaw rogues still

[dry night]

na you hold it for next shiv i think

and vend

[deep sleet]

wait how is this sim getting a 1:30ish vendetta

ah might be lust

im not getting anywhere near 1:30 even with haste/crit geared and vigor, with no lust

wait the sim holds vendetta all the way to 1:30, how is dusk even worth

[dry night]

i think that's wrong

is the 4p tier in there?

[mint current]

vendetta should be around 1 min with dusk what do you mean

[dry night]

he means that sim is holding it for next sepsis

[mint current]

hmm interesting

[dry night]

instead of sending it and holding sepsis for next vend

[deep sleet]

you can get vendetta lower than a minute by quite a lot

[mint current]

maybe has to do with kill time

always check those

[deep sleet]

45 second vendetta isnt unreasonable

yeah maybe right kill time

[mint current]

if boss died at 4:30 or lower meybe sync is better

but no idea

[dry night]

45s vend is very reasonable as NF

[mint current]

might wanna put the sync threshold diff who knows

[deep sleet]

yeah im getting a 45 seconed vendetta, and then my third one which would be paired with next sepsis is almost 2 minutes....

[dry night]

like it's holding for that long?

[deep sleet]

i have to hold second sepsis until 2 minutes basically

instead of at 1:30

not sure im making any massive energy mistakes resulting in that much of a decline in CDR, but sheesh

[dry night]

I would think it's fine to hold sepsis 30s

if you dont miss a caset

cast

[slender basin]

with the 4p, will we have to refresh garotte and rupture before or after the vendetta ? tried it a bit and feels like all i do is refresh bleed (with dusk leggo)

nvm scrolled up and found

[vast cairn]

how do we acquire legos next patch? cinder + ash or something else?

[stiff fossil]

Yep that’s staying the same

[deep sleet]

dont have any idea the current losses of overwriting a dot outside of pandemic, but could we maybe see overwriting a rupture before vendetta runs out to get a maxed pandemic rupture right before vendetta drops

im focusing on this vendetta thing too much over the last few days

its probably barely even worth minmaxing

[proper veldt]

that's something we do, yes

koji put in apl for that when he implemented the tier set

[deep sleet]

im starting to lock in the opener, feels much more strict than current

maybe i naturally know every global to use on live and dont even think about it, but this nf subt tech makes feels like its like a 15 second rotation i gotta checklist through

[dry night]

it'll feel more natural once it sets in more

[deep sleet]

yeah im ironing out the 10-20 second mark in the opener

sometimes i get a rotation that feels real good, trying to see what causes it lol

[dry night]

SB proc?

sounds like shadowblades diff to me

[deep sleet]

i think its a difference of when im using the sepsis ambush

and whether im choosing to use an envenom or reapply a reupture the first time it goesd pandemic

yeah thats it, not sure if thats better or not. feels doable

[pearl maple]

i've tested nf + dusk + nf priest. looks pretty op

[dry night]

I haven't gotten faeries yet but kindred is nuts

sit at around 57% haste with alac stacked with current gear

[weary nacelle]

Parsing next tier on farm...already dreading it

[dry night]

wont be as bad as this tier i'm sure

[weary nacelle]

Faeries for perma vend

And ka staying big. Maybe pi loses some value

[dry night]

KA stays big but it's surely not 1.3k cuz no frost set

[proper veldt]

KA is looking not great btw

it's like half as much as fire mages

[dry night]

ye figures

[proper veldt]

like a world where you KA a sin rogue over enhance, demo, shadow, fire, survival

kinda fucked

we're like a solid middle of the pack spec for KA

[pale roost]

[proper veldt]

night fae

didn't think about it

[pale roost]

must have been dogshit for venthyr

[proper veldt]

yeah

it's not good for venth

[pale roost]

but the haste-gang

rising

[proper veldt]

it's like 850 for venth

[pale roost]

yeh

[proper veldt]

but like

[pale roost]

nf is haste right?

I think

[proper veldt]

yeah

[rose grail]

📈

[scenic saddle]

1.3k

[rocky carbon]

More haste more win

[rose grail]

what’s the gain from glory when we “accidentally” step to the warrior?

[deep sleet]

i've gotta say when we first got this tier set it seemed like it was going to be a mess, but its actually so specific on where you need to put your bleeds up on opener and during vendetta

your garrotes always just perfectly lines up

[dry night]

well's certainly still a mess on pantheon but that fight just seems messy in general

[deep sleet]

oh yeah sin in aoe is not a simple rotation

3-4 targets gets hectic lol

[weary nacelle]

Someone on boomy discord did a new sheet that put sin at like 875 still? But it was using dashing scoundrel with the 4pc lmfao

[dry night]

[weary nacelle]

Just saw the 1.3k NF Sims hahah

More reason for NF - enhance and KA begging

Tbh I'm curious how big the gap would have to be to make venth -> enhance

[pale roost]

Enhance?

[dry night]

Something that enhance does encourages cov stacking i guess?

[weary nacelle]

Couple levels of assumptions here, but if elegy winds up even remotely as strong as it looks

Our enh will be demanding the 4 melees in their group be NF

[dry night]

oh teh trinket yeah

the super ocular gland cov stack trink

[weary nacelle]

Since we run 6 melee, they'll put in the ones that are NF

Ye

[dry night]

that i think drops off of last 3 so it wont really matter too much 😛

[pale roost]

Yeah, that's just wrong. With NF it's around 1.4k, and probably even more when we get gear. Or well, who knows honestly.

[pale roost]

Ah right yeah

Ripperino

[dry night]

The real strength of KA on NF would be if it would reduce vend timing at all

more than 2 seconds

[weary nacelle]

Wait so is KA on NF the biggest? Last I saw enhance was top at 1430

Cause our boomies will be kyrian...

[pale roost]

No, Enha still holds the spot for the best KA

[weary nacelle]

Shit

Rip me

[pale roost]

That's a good thing

Fuck KA.

[weary nacelle]

If it's even remotely close then the entirety of farm logs will be filled with it

[dry night]

KA also doesn't feel quite as strong as it does currently on venth with frost shards

[weary nacelle]

Prog is fun n all, but the majority of the tier will be spent on farm. Parsing keeps it interesting

[dry night]

I got it a few times in PTR

[weary nacelle]

Do you just slam sepsis on CD?

[pale roost]

Yeh, externals ruin farms

[weary nacelle]

Or hold for shiv/vend/both

[pale roost]

Kinda

[dry night]

^

Long story short it dpeends on fight timing

[weary nacelle]

Sucks trying to compete for ego rankings when we have classes whose logs aren't fucked by externals

[pale roost]

You want to sync whenever possible without losing casts

[dry night]

So it's pretty much same logic as flag except you have to factor shiv in too

[pale roost]

Pretty much the same story as always, but a bit more aggressive this time around

[weary nacelle]

Vend should line up with it decently assuming you're allowed to tunnel

[dry night]

Vend is 1min on NF so yeah everything flows smoothish

[rocky carbon]

Cant wait for externals to not matter in 10.0

[proper veldt]

I will say, I did like

2 sims

With KA and PI

And we kind of are really good targets for them

Not the best

But like with tuning and nerfs to crazy shit like enhance (they’re actually like close to 16k I think)

We might be very very appealing

For externals

[pale roost]

I was hoping KA would be dead next tier

[rocky carbon]

Maybe they can buff everything else instead of nerfing enh

[pale roost]

But hhere we are.

[rocky carbon]

[proper veldt]

Same issue though

If we’re 1350 at 12.2 and they’re 1450 at 16

Bringing us up just makes us more viable targets again

[scenic saddle]

16k sim

[rocky carbon]

Ye

But like i want to do around 16k

[pale roost]

Tough luck cowboy

[rocky carbon]

Because its more than 12k

[pale roost]

Time to look for a new spec

[proper veldt]

Get 30 externals

[rocky carbon]

Unlucky

I actually might get KA this week

Apparently

[proper veldt]

I will be posting/pinning some more sims

[pale roost]

KA-havers

[proper veldt]

Now that night fae got fixed

[pale roost]

[proper veldt]

And we have other apl changes

[rocky carbon]

Get to gap my raid even more than usual ig

[proper veldt]

I feel more comfortable sharing some more numbers

[rocky carbon]

Its a maybe, if he makes me pay for it i wont get KA

[pale roost]

We love some chunky numbers in here

And some smexy pins

[proper veldt]

I will do this though

[rocky carbon]

I'm pretty sure I could at least approach some rank 1s with KA but idrc

[dry night]

all hail our lords

[rocky carbon]

I only care about next tier now

[proper veldt]

Tier set opinion revisited

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-analysis-of-the-9-2-tier-set-bonuses-a-lesson-in-dot-325616?webhook

[dry night]

I want to be like you guys when i grow up

[pale roost]

[rocky carbon]

How much u wanna bet ur older than both of them

[dry night]

IK I am

[proper veldt]

I’m turning 23 in july

[rocky carbon]

Whispyr got 3 years on me

[pale roost]

Age is just a social construct

[rocky carbon]

True

Its about having a young soul

Like our good friend daps

[pale roost]

And a big dick

[proper veldt]

That’s what I told your mom too after she said it would never work

[pale roost]

What a bitch

[scenic saddle]

dude got rejected by a mom what a loser

[pale roost]

Love you mom.

[proper veldt]

Yeah that makes two of us

[pale roost]

Ohana

[mint current]

[deep sleet]

@proper veldt do you think the "better sepsis" opener is pretty spot on at this point?

im aware the better sepsis sim wasnt specifically a change in the opener, just wondering if the opener is fleshed out already

[proper veldt]

I’m trying to think of what could be optimized or what’s sketch about it

Without actually seeing it since I’m still in bed

But I think it’s fine

[rose grail]

ima gonna need some updated race sims

[deep sleet]

i honestly dont know if theres anything sketch about it, been trying a few different things but dont want to "learn" a bad habit

[dry night]

I think the only weird part is the rupture sepsis shiv part

or rather i can possibly be weird

[rocky carbon]

sounds logical

full bleeds up before pressing bleed amp

[dry night]

ye but you also want to have a full rupture up not just a 3p right so depending on if ambush after slice crits / mut etc

but that's not too different than current, rotation /prio still wouldn't change so doesn't matter i guess

gar slice ambush mut rupture sepsis vendetta shiv?

yeah guess it doesn't matter about crits anyways cuz deeper

[deep sleet]

yeah if neither mutilate crits when youre trying to get rupture up on pull, it feels super akward

[rose grail]

MFD time to shine

[rocky carbon]

@pale roost nf mfd ns when?

[pale roost]

I've tried some shenanigans, but it's unfortunately pretty dead.

[rocky carbon]

unlucky

[pale roost]

Found a gain for Nightstalker, wasn't enough to beat out Sub

[mint current]

can you still clip sepsis explosion with nightstalker like in pvp ?

[proper veldt]

With the subterfuge mutilate change @pale roost talked about bringing ambush back into light, as well as a 0.7% gain for duskwalkers being added into the sim default, I thought I should share the tentative shiv sync logic for fae that I’ve wrapped up on. Fae Sepsis Shiv Sync Logic

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uYibdX5dSvJzBRgdxqHRuU

Here is the sim with the consolidated shiv changes compared to the new default with both the duskwalkers 0.7%, as well as the 0.3% from the ambush changes from Cev

Some of you saw the madness on stream already, but as a tldr on the change: shiv on cooldown for fae is no more. I want to stress this is FAE and sepsis related, and there may be different logic for other covenants going forward.

Shiv logic for fae is now as follows:
Hold roughly 12 seconds for vendetta
Always hold for sepsis
Cast sepsis->shiv whenever sepsis is cast
Use on cooldown as long as rupture and garrote are currently ticking

The most common use of this is with duskwalkers, as that seems to be the legendary of choice in 9.2

With duskwalkers, the cooldown of vendetta is roughly a minute

This creates the cycle of:
Vend+sepsis+shiv (opener)
Shiv (around 0:30)
Vend+shiv (1:00)
Sepsis+shiv (1:30)
Vend+shiv (2:00)
Shiv (2:30)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (3:00, repeating the cycle)

You still want to follow the sync logic of “if you won’t lose a cast”, which may result in some simulations holding either sepsis or vendetta. This 30 second shiv cycle is still consistent with that, for example:

Vend+sepsis+shiv (opener)
Shiv (0:30)
Vend + shiv (1:00)
Shiv (1:30, holding sepsis 30 seconds for vend)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (2:00, using the sepsis here)
Shiv (2:30)
Vend+shiv (3:00)
Shiv (3:30, again holding sepsis)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (4:00, with the fight ending before 4:30)

The second example requires a fight of between 4 and 4:30, but the logic can be extended to sync the final sepsis with the final vendetta of the fight in general. Keep this in mind depending on your kill times next patch

It is 2:30 in the morning here, and kojiyama is looking over the changes in the next couple of days, so the line itself might change, but the logic is the important part here

If you have any questions please let me know :)

[pale roost]

[lean glen]

This time-line is cursed

[rose grail]

9.0 - 9.1.5
Players: pooling & shiv windows are important.
TC’s: nope. Full Send Freddy

9.2
TC’s: Shiv windows matter!
Players: this is cursed

[wooden wharf]

9.2 is 9.x

well 9.1.5 and before don't have the tier set bonus ^^

[rose grail]

fixed it for you fuu.

I’m sure you can full send kyrian still.

[wraith sphinx]

Great news @proper veldt. Does that mean you'll look into LBE/shiv 2pc implementation next now that you're done with fae?

[pale roost]

[rose grail]

dishonest sims if he doesn’t.

pushing anti mfd agenda

[obtuse rain]

In relation to the above - just making sure I am reading this right. If we're NF, we Sepsis THEN Shiv and we hold Sepsis for Vendetta?

[wraith sphinx]

Yes, if you shiv>sepsis, the bonk of the sepsis wont be within shiv anymore. That's why you Sepsis>Shiv. No holding Sepsis for Vendetta unless its the last one of the fight

Every second Sepsis naturally lines up with Vendetta (due to dusk cdr), meaning delaying one sepsis for Vendetta just desyncs the next one, gaining you nothing.

[obtuse rain]

Ohh, okay. Glad I asked then. One day I'll get as good as you guys, I promise.

[wraith sphinx]

There's always theoretical DPS gains if fights are within a certain duration, where holding CDs would allow you to line up CDs slightly better. These typically aren't cases to concern yourself with during progression, though.

[proper veldt]

Sure

[steep rampart]

I mean tbf NF has had custom logic for Shiv since I put it in 9.0.5 to optimize for bonk damage. The main reason it had to be changed APL wise for 9.2 is just some of the timing implications with 2pc and not always working out.

NF has been the exception to the “use on CD” for a long time it’s just most people haven’t played NF so don’t know about it

Sepsis actually had quite a lot of special timing cases already in the APL for both Shiv and Vanish.

[rose grail]

I had actually noticed in 9.1 when screwing around with hero rotation testing. Just makes me laugh for how long it has been TBoCD in general.

[stiff fossil]

how many envenoms do I need for toxic blade?

[rose grail]

all of them unless you have 36% crit

[stiff fossil]

[rose grail]

very easy logic to understand.

[elfin vale]

What is the talent build for the sim? 3/2/1/x/x/2/1?

I was gonna play around with it on PTR

or do you take DS now?

[scenic saddle]

ep subt ds pb

[rocky carbon]

thank god for pb

[proper veldt]

Everyone plays ep subterfuge pb

Venth plays mfd

The other 3 play Deeper

[elfin vale]

ohh kk

was confused because of the mention of ambush

so I assumed it was BS

but kk

ty ty

[rocky carbon]

nah its just talking about using the free ambush from sepsis and subterfuge

[elfin vale]

OHH

[rocky carbon]

before we werent because of MA/ stats

[elfin vale]

what Conduits?

is Septic shock shit?

[rocky carbon]

its 3rd best for nf

[elfin vale]

kk

[rocky carbon]

wps>lp>septic shock

[elfin vale]

Hmm

[rocky carbon]

venthyr is lashing>wps>lp

[elfin vale]

also

is it triple potency dreamweaver?

[rocky carbon]

ye

[elfin vale]

kk

bless

ty

[rocky carbon]

maybe some cases for first strike korayn

idk when you would run it though im not a full expert

[elfin vale]

yea but for prog Dreamweaver is gonna be insanely value

pod is nuts

[rocky carbon]

pod sometimes overlaps with cheat apparently

not gonna be fun

i hate pod anyway

[elfin vale]

weird

because pod is death

cheat is low % of your hp

[rocky carbon]

its some kind of bug

[elfin vale]

also waking dreams looks nice too

1 min cd on a 12 sec shield that is worth 20% of your max hp

when you fall below 80%

[rocky carbon]

yeah that one is ok

not sure if its better than nadjia healthpot shield or theotar token though

[elfin vale]

token is pretty good

esp if you run with the snd heal conduit

since it can proc off that

nadija health pot is a consumable tho

procing from consumable

this doesnt require it

consumable + HS

[proper veldt]

I think the way it works is if it hits hard enough after some threshold it’ll proc both

Idk if it’s 2x max hp like cheat

But bigger hits sometimes just pod you

And proc cheat

[elfin vale]

weird

just run elusiveness

[proper veldt]

Leeching poison bruh

[elfin vale]

ya ur trolling

[proper veldt]

just don't get 1 shot

5 head

[elfin vale]

Sylv prog I played Elusiveness

also I realized that a bunch of aoe abilities were double dipping w/ Elusiveness and Feint base

[proper veldt]

that shouldn't happen if I understand the mechanics of elusiveness correctly

but maybe there's jank

[elfin vale]

it did, Push also tested it

but its like... weird

it was like that before in past expacs too

both stacked together

[steep rampart]

Same for Bonesmith as well fwiw

Really drove me crazy in CN

[proper veldt]

yeh

[steep rampart]

Cheat still has issues with the DR kicking in too slowly which probably contributes to it

[proper veldt]

Spreadsheet is updated with some first take APL changes (including the shiv change above): https://bit.ly/3yX1GQc

More APL changes to come most likely. I will be simming early mythic week profiles, please read the disclaimers and info on the sheet for more on that.

The heavy hitting findings:

• Dusk is literally inescapable everywhere, we're playing dusk with 4 piece, end of story.
• Fae, as expected, is about 200 ahead in single target due to the shiv lines.
• Necro and Kyrian suck but at least necro can do mad m+ damage I guess
• Shadowdust in m+ seems pretty... aight. You'd be weird to play it, but I guess you could.

[weary nacelle]

dusk with 4 piece, end of story, dun wanna hear about it

bro we are Fae for real, but what about m+ .. is it still zoldyck ?

[rose grail]

you could, you know, open the link

he just spoon fed you the sims

[weary nacelle]

there's Dslice is see my bad

50 dps more for dusk jeez that leggo really skyrocketed with 4p

[wraith sphinx]

King work, as always. Truly leading by example.

[mystic nova]

it's actually amazing the work you do, Mr. Whysper. Thank you.

[proper veldt]

Love to help provide info and numbers

you're all most welcome

I think I'm caught up on wowhead stuff as well (only had to stay up till 5am apparently), so those shiv APL investigations for necro, venth, and kyrian, will take place next week

if you look at the sims and see something odd, feel free to submit a form here: https://forms.gle/xxWmFe76XfhaML7J9
This google form submission gets posted directly to a channel in my discord for me to review and look at. The submission is also completely anonymous, if you don't want to DM me directly :)

[sacred sonnet]

What's the opener and rotation for NF looking to be?

[sacred sonnet]

[stiff fossil]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eK3JWjgQbWBgWuL7VAiVDF/simc
But go there, under Fae 4p Base > APL, open the sample sequence table and it’ll show you how the bot plays out the sim

[weary nacelle]

garrote, slice, ambush, mutilate rupture, sepsis, vendetta shiv, mut envenom

i gotta run this on target dummies for a few minutes, i got used to not using ambush at all except Blindside procs

[strange thorn]

how to go about vendetta sepsis sync? you get vendetta back up before sepsis o_o

[stiff fossil]

There’s a sample sequence literally 3 messages above your question

[scenic saddle]

#916546791472783371 message

[strange thorn]

thank you

[sacred sonnet]

[steep rampart]

Honestly Necro is closer with the set bonuses than I’d expect. If the legendary wasn’t literal zdps it probably would be in the mix. 😦

[elfin vale]

Wdym, proto is a necrolord fight

Actually it can be, you use 2 BS charges and have all 4 hit

And then generate mad cp

From 1 single BS

For last phase *

[steep rampart]

I mean assuming the legendary actually worked right which it basically never has. 😛

[elfin vale]

[steep rampart]

It has multiple bugs with both CP gen from cleaved dots and refunds from cleaved dots that iirc has never been fixed

Haven’t tested if all of them still happen on 9.2 specifically but don’t really have any reason to believe they were fixed lol

[stiff fossil]

I tested it in torghast and they're definitely not fixed

[gusty sand]

anyone got top build in the ptr? and gear if possible ❤️

[rose grail]

just type !bis

[raw thunder]

!bis

:(

[sacred sonnet]

[weary nacelle]

I've tried doing searches and couldn't find it. What's the ambush logic that's referenced a few times?

[pale roost]

Use it.

Planning to use a generator during Subterfuge? Use Ambush instead of Mutilate.

Sepsis procs? Use Ambush.

[weary nacelle]

I mean, how. I'm guessing the opener is still garrote>and>garrote

Got it

[pale roost]

It has never been garrote - garrote

and will never be

[weary nacelle]

Snd*

Autocorrect.

[pale roost]

Even then

Gar - SnD - Gar is completely wrong

That's a 8.3 rotation

Doesn't work without 80% haste and shrouded suffocation

[weary nacelle]

That was the last time I touch subt

[pale roost]

The opener is Garrote - SnD - Ambush

Rup at 4-5cp

Slam Sepsis, Vend, Shiv

[weary nacelle]

Kk

[pale roost]

Use Sepsis on cooldown, use Vend on cooldown, hold Shiv for every Vendetta

Making sure to sync Sepsis/Vend and Sepsis/Vend/Shiv whenever possible

[azure pilot]

Will i need to go necro for keys in 9.2 as per the sims or fae will be enough?

[pale roost]

Probably doesn't matter too much either way

Just use whatever your group needs more

[azure pilot]

We are 3 necro, 1 kyrian and 1 venthyr(me) already

[weary nacelle]

How long would you hold sepsis or vend for each other if dusk winds up with funky timings

[pale roost]

They should not

Sepsis is a 1.5min cd, Dusk makes Vend a 1 min cooldown

You hold Sepsis for Vendetta, not the other way around - unless you won't miss a cast.

[weary nacelle]

Right. But that's assuming you can slam energy for dusk. There's downtime on fights that could impact that, no?

[pale roost]

Sure, but you can spend energy during downtime as well

You might generate less, but it shouldn't be too too bad.

[weary nacelle]

I guess that's true. Sit in a corner spamming fok

[azure pilot]

FoK spam?

[pale roost]

Yep

But yeah, Sepsis on cooldown. Hold it for the third Vendetta if Vend doesn't line up al naturel

[azure pilot]

@pale roost did you do any keys in PTR with 4-piece?

[weary nacelle]

Worth it to snipe sepsis on adds or better to let it full tick

[pale roost]

I did not, no.

[pale roost]

Why would you do that though?

What benefit do you get from that?

There is no reset-mechanic on Sepsis

[azure pilot]

Can you do and share your experience with us key pushers?

[weary nacelle]

The 30 second CD?

[pale roost]

Ah right

It's probably worth especially since we're playing TO everywhere in 9.2 whenever we get double legos

Completely forgot about that mechanic LUL

[weary nacelle]

Lol

Right, should give ar/sb, right? That was my thinking at least

[pale roost]

But yeh, I'd still look for 50% value at least

I wouldn't probs snipe a 1hp target with it

[pale roost]

Yeh

They're not really too too giga though

[azure pilot]

So basically we should treat sniping sepsis just like how we rupture an add about to die in a few GCDs?

Assuming we don't have a big pull or boss in next 50 seconds

[pale roost]

Well, not really.

Rupture sniping is used for completely different purposes

It's used for instant energy gain and more often than not is not even a gain

[weary nacelle]

Septic shock or maim?

[pale roost]

You definitely do not want to snipe asap with Sepsis

[azure pilot]

Yeah i get different purpose though. Was wondering if it's in the same manner

[pale roost]

Always Septic Shock

[weary nacelle]

Can be good to also refresh frost shard tho ;)

[pale roost]

No, because like you said you have to take into account what happens next and how your cooldowns are looking like.

Rupture doesn't have any conditionals like that

[azure pilot]

Gotcha

[pale roost]

You just slam it if you need the energy - and more often than not you probably don't.

[weary nacelle]

So idk if I'm doing something wrong but there's definitely ~15 seconds where third vend is off CD before sepsis comes up

[mystic lake]

I'm starting to farm NF renown tonight boys.

[deep sleet]

yeah if youre doing the vend/seps - vend - vend/seps rotation

your next vend/seps will always be at like 2 minutes

instead of 1:30

if youre on a patchwerk fight or a target dummy you might be able to get it down to like...1:50 at best

[weary nacelle]

Im doing the one that was posted a few days ago that theoretically has them line up at 3

[deep sleet]

dont think ive seen that

[pale roost]

You do not want to do that

This creates the cycle of:
Vend+sepsis+shiv (opener)
Shiv (around 0:30)
Vend+shiv (1:00)
Sepsis+shiv (1:30)
Vend+shiv (2:00)
Shiv (2:30)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (3:00, repeating the cycle)

This is the rotation

[deep sleet]

arent there 2 rotations

one syncing and one not

depending on kill times

[proper veldt]

it's less of "2 rotations"

and more of the concept

like if you take sylv for example which is like a 14 minute fight right

you would cast on cooldown

to avoid missing hella casts

so you get something like this

right

lets say it's 14:20

you would hold that last sepsis for the 14:00 vend

[dry night]

Do we have a minute mark / cast mark yet or is it still just theoretical

[proper veldt]

the logic is just more jarring on shorter kill times because you end up having less casts

[weary nacelle]

Doing this on a dummy had the 3 min vend coming up 15 seconds early. That sound about normal?

[proper veldt]

yeh that happens

[weary nacelle]

Kk

Feels weird

[proper veldt]

vend cdr from dusk isn't exactly 1 minute

sometimes it's like 1:02, or 1:05 reduction

and then you end up with a couple seconds of delay

[dry night]

Like how many extra shiv casts makes it worth to hit shiv on cd vs holding for stuff

Or does that point never happen

[proper veldt]

never happens

[deep sleet]

with how powerful 2pc is, i imagine just 1 or 2 shiv losses is big

[proper veldt]

well

I mean I can check

[dry night]

na

[proper veldt]

but I don't see it

[dry night]

it's probs like 15mins or some bs

not realistic

[elfin vale]

I screenshot this and made this an NFT, you cant share this anymore

but jokes aside, ty

[deep sleet]

yeah it would need to be a huge time line

[dry night]

I guess the only other thing I'm kinda wondering would be shiv with adds

[proper veldt]

the blockchain doesn't lie, you are a thief and a crook and the police WILL be hearing about this

[elfin vale]

ur right

[dry night]

if we just keep the same timeline roughly or if it's worth to shiv early / late when adds are coming

[elfin vale]

Twitter jail

[mint current]

also remember we can snap sepsis and assa does not lose much because blades/ar are a buff on you

big gainz

[deep sleet]

wdym by snap

[mint current]

if sepsis dot is on the target and it dies

you get 33% cdr

[proper veldt]

@dry night yeah I just checked on 20 minutes and the sync logic barely lost 0.2%

[deep sleet]

ah yeah

[mint current]

may be important in m+

blades is kinda lit

with garrotes

[dry night]

yeah it is

[elfin vale]

you know what would be sick

[mint current]

or even add fights as subterfuge is a thing

[elfin vale]

if Subterfuge Garrote amp worked with post Sepsis stealth ability

[mint current]

kekw imagine

[elfin vale]

that would be such a cool interaction

[pale roost]

There isn't really a logic to m+ when it comes to sync and send honestly

There's a lot of downtime running between packs and whatnot

[mint current]

m+ is all planning nowadays

[pale roost]

It's a safe bet to just send everything on cd in m+ anyways

Of course, again, syncing wherever possible

[mint current]

same reason as sub playing stiletto most of the time is a good choice as it flexs more the 40 mins spreadsheet

[steep rampart]

Have you considered selling NFT links to sim reports?

[mint current]

as assa with vanish etc it can get dicey as those garrotes are quite valuable even on st now

[elfin vale]

Azortharion already does it on Patreon

[mint current]

maybe it is time to mint somee of my BIG CRITS

for the future

[proper veldt]

shiv APL for only 1 eth

[deep sleet]

wait are his hunter sims actually a patreon thing

[mint current]

i think i have a clip of the 400% exsang somewhere

[elfin vale]

yes

[mint current]

in a server

[elfin vale]

they are

[deep sleet]

thats pathetic

[elfin vale]

also told entire community that Kyrian was bis for SoD when he himself was playing NF for prog and past prog

[rose grail]

have you not seen warlocks?

[elfin vale]

but

ya

[rose grail]

i still love the old rendless arms sims

[pale roost]

Some communities just keep their sims and apl a secret

It's a bit cringe imo

[elfin vale]

yep

[steep rampart]

Now I understand why you broke it into 8 lines.

[elfin vale]

or behind pay walls

[stiff fossil]

[elfin vale]

kinda weird behavior

[steep rampart]

Gonna make people pay for the APL DLC packs

[deep sleet]

i remember he hated me in legion because of a difference in opinion of BM builds lmao

[pale roost]

Wordup has his own local sim apl that he doesn't share to anyone

[proper veldt]

hey okay low blow I compressed it back to 2

[pale roost]

idk

[steep rampart]

1 eth per line

[dry night]

[steep rampart]

Unlock more functionality

Support your local APL creator

[molten ore]

[weary nacelle]

was doing 8k consistant on a dummy on ptr, at 252 not sure if thats good or bad

[deep sleet]

i pat whispyr on the back like twice a year thats enough support

[rose grail]

do you want it to be good or bad?

[elfin vale]

with 4p and 2L? @weary nacelle

[weary nacelle]

yeh

[steep rampart]

lol I think it depends on the situation and if it’s pure PTR or not honestly. Part of me is very torn on releasing PTR sims in general because folks get the wrong impression from it so much.

[elfin vale]

NF?

[weary nacelle]

yeh

[deep sleet]

yeah thats not great

[elfin vale]

hmm

yeah thats not good

[deep sleet]

should be closer to 10-11 over an extended period of time

[weary nacelle]

o-o

[molten ore]

i can do about 11k sustained as venthyr

[elfin vale]

ye

[weary nacelle]

oh i wasn't using vanish ig

[mint current]

my man

[elfin vale]

but there is a difference between spreading wrong/misinformation vs behind a paywall

[deep sleet]

thats not a big diff tbh

[weary nacelle]

i gotta be fucking something up big time then o-o?

[elfin vale]

yeah

[mint current]

most likely

[steep rampart]

Yeah I mean the Azor thing paying to access sims is kinda lame imo

[mint current]

are you using deadly poison?

[weary nacelle]

LOL

[rose grail]

just get hired by liquid/echo

[weary nacelle]

yes