9.2 Feedback and Discussion

[pale jetty]

the stacks is based on hp

[coarse quiver]

100, 75, 50, 25

[winged fiber]

it's a % chance to proc and it does multiplicative damage based on stacks which are based off hp

[pale jetty]

100-75, 75-50, 50-25, 25-0

[astral dragon]

yeah so same thing then

[winged fiber]

so you'd probably just pop it on at 50%

and call it a day

[coarse quiver]

so at some point the sylv daggers will start doing real damage and be better than 278 MH

thats the safe bet

[winged fiber]

there's no bosses i can test it on

[hushed comet]

Point is, to figure out when exactly

[astral dragon]

i guess those dagger sims were already with the new highest deeper dagger conduit

whatever that is

278?

[coarse quiver]

fuu is going to tear their hair out

[hushed comet]

Idk

[pale jetty]

the ones fuu did?

[astral dragon]

yeah

[pale jetty]

idts

[astral dragon]

[hushed comet]

[winged fiber]

i can do it on the punching bag

[hushed comet]

This is gonna get degen isn’t it

[winged fiber]

in org

[astral dragon]

u need to test in raid fight

[winged fiber]

yea

[astral dragon]

cause i already know it works in m+ combat

[coarse quiver]

@wind furnace im so sorry but we've made a new cringe question to sim

[hushed comet]

Why do things always get degen in sub chat

[astral dragon]

ngl

[coarse quiver]

RIGHT?!

[lament ore]

this is so fucking degen holy shit

[winged fiber]

lemme go run to taragoop

[coarse quiver]

im telling my friend right now

we're always ruining shit

[astral dragon]

now im glad i raided this patch

[hushed comet]

Lmfao

[winged fiber]

bro calm down with the sims

[astral dragon]

[winged fiber]

you don't even know if it works

[astral dragon]

itll work

[coarse quiver]

suresure

[astral dragon]

do i have to queue LFR?

[winged fiber]

yea but pinging fuu to sim something

when you don't even know if it's a thing is

a lil rude lmao

[astral dragon]

im just gonna do outlaw

[hushed comet]

lOL

[winged fiber]

i'm running to taragoo right now

[astral dragon]

already have wep sets

no wep sets on sub

[hushed comet]

[coarse quiver]

i literally apologized already and agreed it was too early to ask

[hushed comet]

Oh you meant rn

To test

[astral dragon]

yeah

[hushed comet]

My b

[astral dragon]

noones doing LFR at 2am

need to apply to hc or w/e

[winged fiber]

i'm almost at tarra dw

[astral dragon]

[lament ore]

go solo normal tarra

[astral dragon]

u soloing?

GIGACHAD

[lament ore]

with evasion

[winged fiber]

yea

im gonna evasion tank

[astral dragon]

holy

[vagrant glade]

How big is thr phial nerf on 9.2 ptr?

[winged fiber]

15%

[coarse quiver]

about 15%

lol

[astral dragon]

~15% i think

[lament ore]

guys I think it's 15%

[whole prism]

Someone better check the math

[astral dragon]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-2-ptr-trinket-tuning-hotfixes-for-february-18th-phial-of-putrefaction-326007

[cedar yew]

But why 😮

[vagrant glade]

How does that impact its potency? Does that drop it down the priority list alot?

[winged fiber]

here's a problem though

[winged fiber]

if this is true

[civic terrace]

ye rip phial

[winged fiber]

it makes sylv daggers

bis

for the rest of the xpac

[astral dragon]

looks like its 15%

[hushed comet]

Looks like 25% guys

[winged fiber]

which WILL get them nerfed

if they don't remove the ability to swap to them mid raid

fight

[civic terrace]

the piece literally says its about 15% as well

[astral dragon]

no nerfs bruh

[whole prism]

You take that heresy out of here right now

[astral dragon]

we keep this a secret in here

[winged fiber]

how do i start a raid group

by myself

do i need some1 else

[hushed comet]

So it only does about 75% of the damage it did before right?

[whole prism]

If they let boomkins have a WQ trinket for 2 tiers they can let us have some little ole daggies for one tier

[civic terrace]

[hushed comet]

Im only kidding

[civic terrace]

I know

[hushed comet]

[winged fiber]

is any1 on ptr

i need to invite some1 to get into the raid

[hushed comet]

If u give me a few I can get on

[astral dragon]

dw im applying to grps

[hushed comet]

Or maybe ram can

[coarse quiver]

@winged fiber invite parsleyroot

[astral dragon]

❎ non ptr gamer

[civic terrace]

Suffer well

[hushed comet]

[winged fiber]

it wont let me in sanctum

wtf

says it's not yet available on this difficulty

for all difficulties

[hushed comet]

Prob because it’s 9.2 PTR

[winged fiber]

cringe

[hushed comet]

So they turned off the raid

[lament ore]

why not go on live tho

for this

[hushed comet]

Yeah

[winged fiber]

true

guess we go on live

[hushed comet]

You have to make it passed the trash

[coarse quiver]

oh yeah thats just testable on live LOL

[hushed comet]

But you’re a rogue so

[winged fiber]

wait

[hushed comet]

[winged fiber]

my rogues locked out

[coarse quiver]

im sure he could also just insta invite into a normal kill

[winged fiber]

all the bosses are dead

oh wait i can do normal

nvm

[hushed comet]

Go on normal..?

Lol

[astral dragon]

i got invited to grp

soon testing on eye

[hushed comet]

[lament ore]

this is degeneracy incarnate

if it works

[astral dragon]

it better work

[civic terrace]

work what?

[astral dragon]

swap weps in raid combat

[coarse quiver]

dagger shenanigans

[civic terrace]

The daggers dont do damage if you swap them

[lament ore]

[astral dragon]

[civic terrace]

I already tried this

[coarse quiver]

huh

[lament ore]

well then

[winged fiber]

POG

DELIVERENCE FROM DEGENERACY ACHIEVED

[lament ore]

thank fuck tho

[astral dragon]

let me test

start

[coarse quiver]

outlaw alert

[hushed comet]

[coarse quiver]

[civic terrace]

You could swap in a 2nd eon later in execution, that would work

[lament ore]

wait what

[coarse quiver]

bruv

[lament ore]

that was the entire point of this

[coarse quiver]

LOLOL

[hushed comet]

What did you mean by do no damage then

[coarse quiver]

OH NO

[astral dragon]

[civic terrace]

I thought you meant swapping one out and keeping the damage

[coarse quiver]

GET BACK DOWN HERE

[lament ore]

FUCK

[astral dragon]

this is the sub channel not outlaw

[lament ore]

degeneracy might still be afoot

[winged fiber]

god damnit

[hushed comet]

[winged fiber]

everyone without double mythic edge of night is now fucked

for the rest of the xpac

[coarse quiver]

IF it works

[lament ore]

oh jesus christ

[hushed comet]

They already were

[winged fiber]

no they really were not

[hushed comet]

BODIED

[winged fiber]

you barely needed 1

[civic terrace]

I mean its like 1 button though, you press it at 50% and forget about it and then on your prepull macro you put in the right weapon

[coarse quiver]

guys chillchill theres a chance it doesnt apply the stacks or something

[civic terrace]

Fire and forget

[coarse quiver]

maybe the dagger that gets swapped doesnt activate

[hushed comet]

1k dps “no they were really not”

[lament ore]

yeah and what about everyone without the dagger

[winged fiber]

it's 200 dps for sub on a full bis profile

[civic terrace]

Unluck

better get daggie

[astral dragon]

u can do it

[winged fiber]

so "yes they really were"

[lament ore]

jesus fuck

[hushed comet]

????

[civic terrace]

or do 8% less execute dps

[winged fiber]

disgusting

[hushed comet]

Double mythic daggers is way more than 200 dps compared to 252s

[winged fiber]

did you gloss over the full bis profile

[hushed comet]

Or you mean 285s

[winged fiber]

lol

[hushed comet]

Yeah who cares bro

[clear zephyr]

[hushed comet]

You’re not gonna have 285 for prog

[winged fiber]

there's a big difference between double mythic daggers being bis for the rest of the entire xpac

and 1 being slightly useful in an offhand

[astral dragon]

still does dmg

[coarse quiver]

NONONONONOONO

LOL

[winged fiber]

this will probably either get patched or the daggers nerfed

no cap

[hushed comet]

Yeah I meant the beginning of the tier

[coarse quiver]

guys it was a joke

[winged fiber]

yes obviously it matters for early prog

[coarse quiver]

can we all pretend i just didnt say that

[clear zephyr]

Nice time to figure out the swap breakpoint

[coarse quiver]

we can all just not do this

[clear zephyr]

nope

must degen

[hushed comet]

[hushed comet]

That’s where I got my 1k from. Idc about bis profiles

[lament ore]

this is fucking disgusting

ngl

[coarse quiver]

its super easy too

but like what is the gain

how much****

[clear zephyr]

@buoyant gyro Are you available to play with sim?

[hushed comet]

End of tier damage is cool and fun, parsing etc. but the only thing that actually matters is getting through the tier as fast and efficiently as possible

[winged fiber]

well

[hushed comet]

Idk

[winged fiber]

considering they hotfixed this very thing

for frost dk's

going into shadowlands

as soon as it's brought to their attention

i'm sure it'll be patched

[civic terrace]

[coarse quiver]

do we dare ping scarizard or try to get his attention

[clear zephyr]

Maybe we treat it like fight club

dont talk about fight club

[winged fiber]

don't ping scarizard

[coarse quiver]

or maybe hes already here

[civic terrace]

no

[coarse quiver]

watching us

[lament ore]

@ scarizard

[mellow urchin]

why would you

[winged fiber]

there's literally a pin saying don't pin him

[astral dragon]

u realize

its bad for everyone if they nerf daggers

we dont want them to do it

[coarse quiver]

guys calm down, i am making joke

[winged fiber]

yes but they can patch the weapon swapping

without nerfing the daggers

they did literally that for dk's

[coarse quiver]

that would be the simplest

[mellow urchin]

bro

[winged fiber]

in beta

of shadowlands

[mellow urchin]

it doesnt matter that much

calm down

[coarse quiver]

or just make the dagger swap deactivate the dagger that gets swapped in

[civic terrace]

Or just not worry about it and let the game run its course

[mellow urchin]

yea like

who cares

just play your own game :))

[hushed comet]

It’s probably not that much damage for it to be “911 patch this!1!1!1!111!1!!!”

[mellow urchin]

kinda silly racing to the devs asking for nerfs

[coarse quiver]

the world needs to know

[mellow urchin]

only rogue mains would do that

[winged fiber]

nobody is asking for nerfs

[astral dragon]

💀

[winged fiber]

the only thing that was said was

they patched literally this for dk's

[mellow urchin]

bro i swear every single tier its the same thing, ppl asking for nerfs

[winged fiber]

so it will probably be patched

[mellow urchin]

tiring

[winged fiber]

once the devs find out

[mellow urchin]

before 9.1 people were screeching about obedience nerfs

[astral dragon]

i hope it stays its cool

[hushed comet]

White list the daggers

[astral dragon]

i get to press my numpad for gear swap

[winged fiber]

i use my numbpad for hotkeys for my mouse lol

[mellow urchin]

they patched out the debuff staying

dont think they patched out weapon swapping

[winged fiber]

yea that's what i'm saying

[mellow urchin]

ye i mean thats whatever

[winged fiber]

they'll just make it so if you swap the effect doesn't do anything

[mellow urchin]

what

thats not what it is for dks

but you need to have razor ice on a weapon

[winged fiber]

yea

ok i take back the quite literally same thing for dk's

[mellow urchin]

so as long as you have 1 dagger its fine

[winged fiber]

similar thing for dk's

[hushed comet]

Would this even be possible lol

[mellow urchin]

why would they do it

[winged fiber]

probably

cuz they stated with the dk's they don't like that kind of gameplay

[hushed comet]

Kinda doubt

[mellow urchin]

like realistically, you would only do this for bosses where execute matters

[winged fiber]

you'd do it for every boss

what

[mellow urchin]

why

[winged fiber]

more dps?

people are parse whores

people like doing big dam

[mellow urchin]

not on prog

[winged fiber]

etc

[mellow urchin]

i couldnt care less

[coarse quiver]

prog dam is prog dam

[winged fiber]

i mean

more dam is good for prog no?

[coarse quiver]

its a single button press

that gives you execute

[mellow urchin]

yea ofc

tahts why i am saying if it matters then sure ofc

[hushed comet]

Stop dam also good for prog apparently

[civic terrace]

Just do no dam for better prog

[mellow urchin]

but you would always have 1 sylv dagger equipped

so the effect not working doesnt make sense

you'd just swap in the 2nd dagger for 25%

[hushed comet]

That’s what I’m talking about. 21st man RLer gigachad shit

Except you’re still part of the 20 man

[winged fiber]

i mean if they can't patch it

[hushed comet]

Afking on your character

[winged fiber]

i could definitely see this making them want to nerf them

which would suck ass

[mellow urchin]

ur acting like its a huge deal

you could just use 2 sylvanas from the get go and lose like 20 dps

[astral dragon]

i kinda hope they dont r emove wep swapping from raid tho

[hushed comet]

And lose no execute dam, where the dam matters anyway

[mellow urchin]

ye weapon swapping has been around since forever

[astral dragon]

even on other classes its nice to have 1 wep with aoe enchant & 1 with st enchant

[winged fiber]

i mean it does have an impact

[astral dragon]

if u get dupe weps later or w/e

[winged fiber]

it's not necessarily game breaking

but people wanting to make a rogue would probably not enjoy this

[astral dragon]

u still cannot abuse the on use weps like nine spear

[civic terrace]

Lol I dont put that much effort in honestly

[astral dragon]

so its not that big

[mellow urchin]

who cares

[winged fiber]

devs

[mellow urchin]

do they really

[winged fiber]

specifically have to care about stuff like this

like there's a difference between

just sub needing 1 mythic eon in offhand and it being ~200 dps gain compared to not having one

[civic terrace]

Imagine caring about not having absolute bis on your 5th alt

[mellow urchin]

not having sylv dagger was always going to be a negative early on

[winged fiber]

and then sin and sub needing 2 mythics for execute cheese

yea but there's a difference between

early on and end of xpac full bis

this makes it much harder for people to make rogues

without already having sylv daggers

or not harder

what's the word

[mellow urchin]

thats already the case

[coarse quiver]

less enjoyable

[mellow urchin]

yea and it sucked ass to make a fire mage in 8.3

[coarse quiver]

or it gives the feeling of a prerequisite

[winged fiber]

deincentivizes

[mellow urchin]

still didnt gut the shit out of lucid, font or the bracers

[winged fiber]

which might lead the devs to make action

*take

[astral dragon]

big true

[mellow urchin]

whatever

[astral dragon]

folly font coral

[mellow urchin]

shit like this has always existed

its part of the game

[lament ore]

sure wish I could loot even one 259

[astral dragon]

hc still good offhand

[winged fiber]

also annoying cuz

i only have one mythic

[lament ore]

bleh

[winged fiber]

and i've killed this dumb bitch 30 times

already

[clear zephyr]

SAME

[mellow urchin]

the difference between mythic and heroic dagger

is minimal

[winged fiber]

I BEEN KILLING SYLV SINCE AUGUST

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[mellow urchin]

so idk why

its a big deal

[winged fiber]

minimal impacts rank 1's

[mellow urchin]

ur never getting rank 1s anyway, lets be honest

[winged fiber]

i'm tryna get those private logged rank 1's hammie

i've had multiple

1st off

[astral dragon]

just keep farming sylv in 9.2

[winged fiber]

2nd off toxic

[astral dragon]

[coarse quiver]

lets be honest anyone that doesnt have double sylv daggers right now are also not going for rank 1s next tier

[winged fiber]

3rd off Ratio + L + nerd + kyrian

[astral dragon]

gonna be doing sylv sales

[mellow urchin]

i mean private logging and caring about r1s

[plucky storm]

Just be yoppa

[astral dragon]

in 9.2

[mellow urchin]

is very stupid

[winged fiber]

hey man

i need something to entertain me on

9 months of farm ok

[winged fiber]

lmao

[mellow urchin]

make ur guild public log

[hushed comet]

Have you met jpc or Cev Push

[lament ore]

yeah this gives me copium as well, guild's gonna be selling it for a while

[winged fiber]

idc if the logs are public

[mellow urchin]

i raid with cev

so yea

[astral dragon]

[plucky storm]

But have you met him

[winged fiber]

parsing good is self satisfaction

[civic terrace]

Private logging itself is

[winged fiber]

idc if people see it or not

[civic terrace]

Like what are you hiding

[winged fiber]

private logging is so people care less about parsing

[astral dragon]

guilds private log to make dps whores not int progress

[winged fiber]

and care more about prog / killing bosses

[astral dragon]

[civic terrace]

If you're not Liquid or Echo I dont see the point in private logging

[coarse quiver]

well guilds in the top end private log so we dont get poached as easily

[hushed comet]

Yeah I know that I’m saying they fit that description homie

[civic terrace]

Lol that just doesnt work that way

[mellow urchin]

fit what description

[vernal folio]

what is all this weapon swapping business about

[hushed comet]

Caring about private r1s

[vernal folio]

can some1 explain

[lament ore]

swap to double EoN during exec

[astral dragon]

💀

[winged fiber]

it really does

[mellow urchin]

lots of ppl do, but its omega pointless

[crisp lichen]

pls just stop talking

[vernal folio]

in 9.2 or currently

[midnight helm]

I've never seen such a 6Head take

[lament ore]

I mean currently you just have 2x EoN always cause there's nothing better anyway

[hushed comet]

Yeah I feel that I just think some people like to know how they rank even if it’s only for themselves to see

[lament ore]

so 9.2

[winged fiber]

i always try my best when i raid

and i like to see how i parsed

[civic terrace]

@crisp lichen Why, are you offended?

[winged fiber]

idc about allstar rankings

i just like the gratification of seeing i did good

that's it

[vernal folio]

Is this just theorycrafting or sims or what

[coarse quiver]

its just a bit ignorant take

[lament ore]

scroll up

a while

[mellow urchin]

ofc, i still think its dumb as shit. I dont even care and i public log. Thats just my personal opinion tho

[coarse quiver]

or disingenuous might be a better word

[crisp lichen]

literally just an awful take

[vernal folio]

i scrolled up a heap b4

literally a heap so all good

[winged fiber]

though some bosses doing good is not parsing

like kt

big remnant slappa

[civic terrace]

Tell me the benefits of private logging, because I fail to see them

[winged fiber]

bro we literally just did and you ignored it

[midnight helm]

Poaching prevention.

[mellow urchin]

we are private logging prog next tier cus of many reasons

[vernal folio]

to stop people trying to parse on prog

[winged fiber]

it makes people less of parse whores and focus more on progging / killing bosses

also what stjern said

[coarse quiver]

yeah i already told you the main one haha

[civic terrace]

Ok sure, that makes sense alright

[hushed comet]

If someone is willing to get poached they will leave either way

[coarse quiver]

also private logging makes alot of people quit trying to parse

[astral dragon]

[winged fiber]

you get less opportunities to be poached

[coarse quiver]

it makes people play better

[winged fiber]

if people can't see you though

[hushed comet]

Maybe they won’t have people approach them but they can approach people on their own

[coarse quiver]

private logging will literally make your entire roster play better, i stg

[midnight helm]

1. Poaching Prevention.
2. Stop pad mentality (useful in lower guilds)
3. Non-WF guilds still has relevant information in logs.

Like that's just 3 quick reasons

[hushed comet]

If they want to move up they will move up

[winged fiber]

it's literally beneficial to the raid

[civic terrace]

I dont think it makes people play better

[winged fiber]

it does

[civic terrace]

Thats just a mentality problem

[coarse quiver]

it does

100%

[astral dragon]

💀

[coarse quiver]

ofc its a m entality

thats what its curbin

LOL

[winged fiber]

lmao

[coarse quiver]

even echo/liquid has players like that

dude

[mellow urchin]

play better or not, its just an easy toggle and you can save some ppl from their parse demon brains

[winged fiber]

^

[coarse quiver]

yep

happened multiple times in my older guild

[winged fiber]

literally has multiple benefits and almost no downsides

and is no hassle to do

which is why lots of guilds chose to do it

[hushed comet]

But in some lower guilds if parsing isn’t on the mind they lose incentive to do as much damage as possible

[vernal folio]

only downside is not being able to flex your logs

if theyre good

[winged fiber]

yea but who cares about flexing logs

[astral dragon]

we know who is rly good anyways

[winged fiber]

if you ego in wow your big dork

[astral dragon]

cev

[coarse quiver]

now you COULD argue that it doesnt stop poaching because if someone WANTS to leave, theyll leave themselves by giving login info to the recruiting guild or just by showing logs through screenshots

[midnight helm]

That still isn't broadcasting though

[coarse quiver]

yeah

[midnight helm]

Meaning your argument isn't entirely valid.

[civic terrace]

Thats not being poached thats just leaving on your own accord

[winged fiber]

mid ranked guilds

with very high parses

*parsers

get bombarded with poach offers

[coarse quiver]

im aware, im saying thats the best argument ive ever heard for it

[winged fiber]

private logging curbs that heavily

[midnight helm]

It's not just mid raanked guild. I've played both in the top end and bottom end at this tage.

[coarse quiver]

because there really is no argument

[midnight helm]

stage

[coarse quiver]

i got poached to wr135 when i was in wr500

[winged fiber]

there's multiple arguments for private logging y'all actually just parse whore's

[crisp lichen]

no u

[midnight helm]

And it doesn't matter what WR you are, people will try to improve their roster. So they will always try to poach or pursuit players to join.

[coarse quiver]

^

[mellow urchin]

its kinda embarrasing, but we literally had ppl get upset they got griefed on a prog boss and got a shit log

and i really just cba dealing with that shit

[winged fiber]

ahahahhahah

[mellow urchin]

some guy went to the gym at 11 PM after a raid to pump some iron to get his grey log out of his system

[winged fiber]

parsing is for farm

[coarse quiver]

i purpoesfully got a 0 on KT because i felt that was a bigger accomplishment than parsing high

[mellow urchin]

like its

that bad

[winged fiber]

that's crazy man

[civic terrace]

lol

[coarse quiver]

i get it though people love numbers

everyone loves numbers

[astral dragon]

[winged fiber]

MUST

SWEAT

[astral dragon]

warrior ?

[winged fiber]

AWAY THE SHAME OF THE GREY

[mellow urchin]

nah i wont out anyone

my guild reads the rogue discord at this point

[astral dragon]

fair enough

[civic terrace]

Just do better next time lol who cares, boss ded

[astral dragon]

warrior = gym

[winged fiber]

i think the only 1 in my guild who ever comes in here is the other rogue

[crisp lichen]

what does a druid do then

[mellow urchin]

ye its fine 99% of the time. But those 1% are still annoying

[crisp lichen]

go to the zoo?

[astral dragon]

[coarse quiver]

hikes

[mellow urchin]

fitting for a druid ngl

[pale jetty]

cant parse if you dont have bis gear, cant have bis gear if you dont kill boss

[clear zephyr]

according to blas0n rogues are the ones working out and listening to edm music.

[mellow urchin]

can hang around with the monkeys, where they belong

[astral dragon]

i can just see myself a warrior getting shit parse then going late night rage gym

[civic terrace]

Take a walk on the wild side

[astral dragon]

its just fitting

[winged fiber]

that's eu rogues

they like hardstyle

[coarse quiver]

no thats just james

[civic terrace]

I do

[mellow urchin]

yea wtf

james is the biggest culprit of that

[civic terrace]

Among other genres

[coarse quiver]

hes our little muscle mascot for our entire class

[mellow urchin]

and last time i checked he's na

[hushed comet]

That’s world wide baby

[winged fiber]

i elected no representative

he's just trying to fit in ok

[mellow urchin]

sorry he's the face of NA rogues

[winged fiber]

cap

the face of na rogues is skip

[mellow urchin]

true

community member skip

[coarse quiver]

fine then you guys get gingi

[winged fiber]

COMMUNITY LEADER

[coarse quiver]

he plays rogue

[astral dragon]

[civic terrace]

Communist leader?

[crisp lichen]

no wonder NA doesnt play rogues

if skip is the face of NA

[astral dragon]

[mellow urchin]

[coarse quiver]

ooh gromnak has a rogue

maybe he can become the face of rogue

[winged fiber]

gromnak is not the face of rogue

[coarse quiver]

i believe in him

he can do it

[winged fiber]

i mean realistically

[hushed comet]

I think you all are forgetting

Sharkshoes exists

[winged fiber]

james is probably the most popular na rogue

[coarse quiver]

100%

[mellow urchin]

"probably"

twitch viewers dont lie

[coarse quiver]

i guess you could argue peekaboo

[winged fiber]

i rarely go on twitch so

iuno how big he is

yea the only1 who could contest his numbers i would assume is pika

[coarse quiver]

pikaboo, sorry

[plucky storm]

this is very 9.2 oriented yes yes

[mellow urchin]

decent

[coarse quiver]

hes....technically a bigger rogue?

[mellow urchin]

it was 9.2

and spiralled

into crap

[winged fiber]

double sylv dagger swap weapons cheese at 50% for the rest of the tier started this man

we're just in a dark place rn

[plucky storm]

You’re in a dark place

[mellow urchin]

wdym double

its just 1

[astral dragon]

[hushed comet]

Yeah we’re discussing your rise to fame in 9.2 for the na rogue community

[winged fiber]

1 for sub yea

2 for sin

i'm always in a dark place

have you been to illinois

gets dark at like 4 pm in this bitch

[plucky storm]

Refuse

[coarse quiver]

did someone say EU rogue who only blasts EDM and goes to the gym?

#off-topic message

[winged fiber]

embed fail ☝️

[plucky storm]

I’d rather corral you clowns out of feedback channels back into #off-topic where the rest of the animals of the zoo dwell

[coarse quiver]

the link works for me what did i do wrong

[crisp lichen]

whispyr..

dont be like that

[lament ore]

it's not supposed to be an embed ya sock

[winged fiber]

shhh

he doesn't know

[lament ore]

[coarse quiver]

i dont do the computer well, no bulli

[plucky storm]

[crisp lichen]

[clear zephyr]

i nominate undad

[winged fiber]

isn't he eu

[clear zephyr]

Nah na

BDGG

[winged fiber]

oh yea

isn't he like a tank or a warrior or some shit now though

[clear zephyr]

Yeah he played warrior this tier

[winged fiber]

canceled

[clear zephyr]

a bit of everything tbh

lmao

[winged fiber]

it's either jpc, pika, or skip

take ur pick

[nova nexus]

@plucky storm why are you in fuu chan? you’ve ruined this place by having a BIS t28 sim that we can’t produce here and leads to mean upset purple people.

[astral dragon]

in what?

[plucky storm]

https://tenor.com/view/one-eyed-one-horned-flying-purple-people-eater-sheb-wooley-sure-looks-strange-to-me-50s-music-gif-24633543

[plucky storm]

Fuu-chan

[astral dragon]

i thought fuu was a man

[plucky storm]

But he has grill pfp

[astral dragon]

do u know if the sylv dagger sims were done with highest ilvl conduit of deeper daggers? @plucky storm

9.2 stuff

[plucky storm]

Let’s find out

[astral dragon]

[plucky storm]

They were

[astral dragon]

thanks

im only a level 2 out of 10 for sims

[plucky storm]

Yeh he did it in an advanced sim

So you gotta open the html

And dig through it a little

[buoyant gyro]

What's up?

[plucky storm]

chicken butt

[hushed comet]

talking about optimal time to swap to double EoN during a fight, boss hp % wise

[unique trail]

If you're a scrub and don't have a mythic sylv dagger would you still run it in OH next tier?

[hushed comet]

if you have heroic yes

[buoyant gyro]

It wouldn't really be worth it until sub-25%

285 MH still wins by 0.3% even at 25-50% threshold

[astral dragon]

nice

[buoyant gyro]

It's 1.6% ahead sub-25% but would have to consider that's prorated across the entire fight length so unless it's some time-sensitive execute the overall DPS gain here is rather minimal

Only 0.4% over the whole fight length

It's maybe some special tech if there is some super tight execute phase but otherwise it's ignorable

[winged fiber]

interesting

that's swapping just the 1 mh dagger for sub right? @buoyant gyro

[buoyant gyro]

Similarly 2x 285 is 0.4% better than 285 MH+Sylv OH above 75%

[astral dragon]

raid gonna feel like m+

4 wep swap

[buoyant gyro]

Which then prorates to 0.1% over the whole fight

So even if you swapped a different set for >75%, 75-25%, sub-25%

you'd gain 0.5%

[astral dragon]

thats farm stuff anyways

[buoyant gyro]

Sounds kinda not worth to me lol

Unless you are trying to omega parse

[mellow urchin]

rng will be the diff

[civic terrace]

Sounds like im not gonna bother

[mellow urchin]

ye

[buoyant gyro]

pull-to-pull dagger RNG itself is probably far bigger than the swapping gain

Same for parsing tbh with the 4pc

[mellow urchin]

ye

parsing for sub in 9.2 will 100% just be rng demons

[astral dragon]

if we take 278, just napkin math do u think it would be worth at 50% or still 25%

[civic terrace]

Cant wait to feel like im playing outlaw with daggers

[winged fiber]

did you check it for sin?

[buoyant gyro]

I mean for Assassination the daggers are worse so

can only be worse

[winged fiber]

assuming it's like .1

lmao

well this is good news

[buoyant gyro]

Assassination dagger value is about half

[winged fiber]

barely worth it outside of giga highroll pulls

problem is highroll pulls will be a thing after

30 farm pulls you prob go get 1 popoff

10 dagger procs in execute go brrrr

[buoyant gyro]

With 278 it'd be worth sub-50% yeah

[astral dragon]

thanks

[winged fiber]

can't really do this without 2 mythic also

[buoyant gyro]

It's by a smaller amount at that threshold. Only like 1%

But still technically ahead

[winged fiber]

1 mythic 1 heroic would probably balance out the swap by keeping heroic equipped pre 25

[buoyant gyro]

With 278 MH the advantage sub-25% is more like 2.8% (compared to 1.6% for Mythic)

Although still talking only about 1% over the fight even if you swapped at 50%

Wouldn't think this is anything Blizzard would get overly concerned about

[winged fiber]

yea it's no where near as drastic as i thought it would be

still annoying though considering my bad sylv rng

[buoyant gyro]

Note this is with Kyrian, so that's the best case

[winged fiber]

oh interesting

[buoyant gyro]

Venthyr may not even be worth swapping at all

[winged fiber]

you just made it not annoying, no way i'd play kyrian on farm

thanks koji

[buoyant gyro]

Since over the whole fight Venthyr loses 0.7% in relative terms which would eat up most of that gain even with 278

I cba to run all the combos again but napkin math seems to show it wouldn't be amazing for Venthyr 😛

[winged fiber]

neat

thanks for the math

[hushed comet]

thanks for the info ❤️

[coarse quiver]

so just to skip the cringe, is there an easy way to make a macro that does this? swaps specificaly a Sylv dagger onto mainhand?

[buoyant gyro]

Equipment sets

[coarse quiver]

i guess i could do that yeah

was thinking too complex

[astral dragon]

yeah u literally make set then just keybind it

i have all my sets on numpad

[wind furnace]

i did them with rank 11

[wind furnace]

whats the question

[spiral glade]

It was degen memes of weapon swapping in sylv dagger mid fight

and at what % it was worth it

[wind furnace]

that is actually a cool idea

i like it

[spiral glade]

I think Koji did some napkin math but Im curious what the sims would say

or maybe their math was from sims idk

[wind furnace]

i think i did a execute sim

with daggers, and 2x sylvanas was not significantly ahead

[feral schooner]

What happend?

@wind furnace what did I miss did they nerf slyvanas dagger?

[wind furnace]

no

[feral schooner]

Ok puh ty

But phial right?

15% I am reading

[wind furnace]

they did nerf soleas and phial

also blood scattered scale

[feral schooner]

15% would be 18 itemlevel or?

[wind furnace]

the end result is what matters

so what counts is the relative strengh of trinket X to the 2nd best

[shut valve]

Is wep swapping on gcd?

[wind furnace]

i have no idea, possible that it causes a gcd

[mellow urchin]

Koji already did a bunch of sims on it

[sinful nimbus]

do i need to vanish when i want to swapp gear?

[mellow urchin]

No you dont leave combat with vanish in a bossfight

Weapons can be swapped in combat

[sinful nimbus]

ok interesting.

[shut valve]

@mellow urchin do u know if weaponswapping causes a gcd? 😄

[mellow urchin]

I havent tested it but someone said it does

[shut valve]

but does current GCD prevent you from weaponswapping?

like, could you make a macro to swap weapons after a shadowstrike and get both into the same gcd? 😄

[mellow urchin]

No you cant do that

They tried it last night

[shut valve]

sadge

[mellow urchin]

Its barely worth doing anyway

All of it

[shut valve]

i was thinking of degen shit where you use 285 dagger in MH for shadowstrikes and double sylv for each evis 😄

[mellow urchin]

Ye that was the idea

But nah, doesnt work

But apparently its a gain to not use sylv dagger at all until sub 50% once you have 285 daggers

So 2x 285 and then swap to a sylv dagger at lower ilvls

I mean

Boss hp

[wind furnace]

its only once per fight

as you just need to know at what point its worth to use sylvans over a regular dagger

[shut valve]

is it somewhat similar with a 278?

[mellow urchin]

With 285 it was barely worth doing even in sub 25%

With 278 it was slightly better ye

And you could swap at 50% instead of 25%

But all in all was like a 1% gain to do it with 278 dagger

[wind furnace]

assuming with mythic daggers

[mellow urchin]

Ye

Koji made the sims, idk what he used for it

[icy dawn]

Would be Great if all These Little Tricks are summarized somewhere

Like a degen sheet ^^

[sinful nimbus]

yeah and then rated between "doable", and "stop you fkn degen, its not worth it"

[icy dawn]

This would be rly cool, because no you Need Luck to read this Channel at the right time to know these thinks

[nova nexus]

nothing stopping you from making such a sheet

[icy dawn]

True But Iam Not that active to get everything into it, but i Start with this ^^

[wind furnace]

ah, i haven't seen any sims

but it should be fairly simple to do

[sinful nimbus]

hmm do we want silv daggers offhand (heroic) also for m+?

[wind furnace]

yes

[sinful nimbus]

hmm rerolling to sublety 1 week before 9.2 was a brilliant idea i see 😄

[wind furnace]

getting heroic dagger week 1 is quite a lot of luck

[shut valve]

not sure if heroic dagger in offhand will be worth for m+ tbf

it's barely worth in ST and stats gain way more value in aoe

[sinful nimbus]

i dont have them yet. but i will get a guild run today. but my hopes are not that high.

[spare crystal]

didnt it outsim 278 dagger for like 150dps in off hand?

[shut valve]

yes

on a 5 min pure ST sim

[mellow urchin]

With 252 gear or 9.2 gear

[spare crystal]

i dont know with what gear just saw some sims that compared different sylv daggers to 278 daggers

[mellow urchin]

Its a problem that they exist

There is like no world where you have a 278 dagger and 252 gear otherwise

[spare crystal]

true

[mellow urchin]

And the more gear we get, the more value you will get from the stats on a regular dagger

While the sylv dagger dmg is static

And will never change

[shut valve]

it does crit

and gets affected by vers i think?

not sure about agi

[mellow urchin]

But to give a more nuanced picture of dagger values, you would have to run so many sim combinations of different stages of gearing. The problem is that people see a %/flat number and go panic mode cus they dont have it

Not agi

But ye crit/vers

[warm olive]

I go panic mode cause I don’t want to wear a 246 all patch ngl

[mellow urchin]

But agi is the main scaling portion of our gear

[shut valve]

then don't

[warm olive]

Damn

I should’ve considered that

Thanks

[mellow urchin]

You could just not wear it

[warm olive]

Solved it

[shut valve]

sylv dagger is only better on pure single target under currently simmed circumstances

[mellow urchin]

Like its not a big dps loss with more gear

[warm olive]

You get the point

[shut valve]

should have farmed a 259 if you're this bothered by it 😄

[mellow urchin]

The value of the daggers will only decrease

I think ppl panic for no reason

[warm olive]

I mean it’s annoying. You’re full of great advice today though I see

[shut valve]

thank you

i do my best

[warm olive]

Probably

[mellow urchin]

Like i dont want to shit on the lists of sims about dagger dps. But its almost fake news territory because its just a 9.1 profile with 278/285 dagger

[shut valve]

unless you're in a world top 50 guild, 1 player in the raid doing 1% less dps due to an item certainly won't prevent you from killing any boss

[mellow urchin]

Not even then

[warm olive]

People just want their characters to have the best gear they can is all

[mellow urchin]

I mean most ppl did sod prog without a dagger, and people think its gonna be an issue in a new tier

[warm olive]

Else it’s fomo for people

[shut valve]

it is fomo

i had fomo for 5 months without a 252 phial

[warm olive]

Yeah I get that tbh

[shut valve]

did it matter at all? no

but i wished i had it

[warm olive]

Yeah the point isn’t if it matters or not

Just the feeling sucks

[shut valve]

at least you have the option of running mythic sylv every week with a bunch of rogues 😄

i only had the option of hoping for a vault drop

sylv becomes super trivial with more gear too

[mellow urchin]

246 to 259 in an OH is way less dps than you think

That ground can be covered by either person having more/less rng

Quite easily

[warm olive]

Oh i realize

[wind furnace]

i would take the higher baseline damge over "coverage with more/less rng"

[warm olive]

I’m saying the difference being small or not is irrelevant people are just scared of missing out i feel like

[wind furnace]

they are

[mellow urchin]

Also if you are worried about parsing in 9.2, you should also consider that the person who has the golden run of rng with the tier set will always be r1. Daggers mean fuck all in that case

[warm olive]

Which is understandable tbh

[wind furnace]

its literally the reason people freak out

the diffrence between mythic/heroic weapons is less problematic

than between no dagger and heroic/mythic ones

[warm olive]

In full 9.2 gear is it still better ?

[mellow urchin]

We dont have any sims on it

[wind furnace]

only in offhand

[warm olive]

Yeah I meant OH

[mellow urchin]

We dont know by how much

[wind furnace]

i can make a sim for it later

[mellow urchin]

Its not gonna be 4-5%

[wind furnace]

its more like 1-2%

[warm olive]

Which one is it we don’t have sims or we don’t know ? :p

[mellow urchin]

Both

[warm olive]

Yeah not expecting 5%

Just curious if it’s better at all

[wind furnace]

it is

[warm olive]

Nice

[mellow urchin]

OH matter little, the secondary stats is basically what its there for

So yea its a very weak item slot

[warm olive]

Yeah

[wind furnace]

problem for offhand is that the slot is very bad

[warm olive]

Ran the EP axe all of 8.3 was great

[wind furnace]

so its easy for a strong effect to stay relevant

[nova nexus]

so what changed ?

[mellow urchin]

For early on

Its very good

But lots of people wont have that situation happen to them

[wind furnace]

the daggers lead to a very strong baseline but sub does gain less than other ones from additional systems

[warm olive]

I guess the % damage of the daggers will go down over time. But it’s gonna be high-ish early

[wind furnace]

having dagger vs. no dagger can be 1k dps

early on

but thats again comparing no dagger to weak daggers

[mellow urchin]

Did you check kojis sim

And why his said 800

[wind furnace]

he had rank 13 conduits, i used 11

thats why there was a dps diffrence

[mellow urchin]

Would dagger value be bigger

With rank 13

Or is that something else

[wind furnace]

not if you compare rank 11 with dagger vs. rank 13 without

[mellow urchin]

Ah ye

[wind furnace]

but you can assume that ~1k is pmuch the worse case

so like normal new raid daggers

vs. mythic this raid

[mellow urchin]

I think its reasonable to assume we will have 272 daggers when mythic opens

Which is valor buffed m+ dagger

[forest hamlet]

Will Valor be uncapped from the start?

[mellow urchin]

No

[wind furnace]

it will be capperoni

[mellow urchin]

But you need 1500 valor to upgrade a dagger to 272

And you get 750 each week

[nova nexus]

I guess I’m just very confused how it was from a dead spec if nerfed for prog to being ok?

I feel like I missed something

[forest hamlet]

So gotta safe tons of valor for Faulty Countermeasure

[mellow urchin]

We were discussing having 9.2 gear

And the daggers

[nova nexus]

I see

[mellow urchin]

In 9.1 gear the daggers are obviously a bigger part of dps

[nova nexus]

so for post prog

[mellow urchin]

No

Heroic +

The only dagger comparisons we have is 9.1 gear swapped with some shitty dagger

And thats the 1000 ppl see and freak out

[nova nexus]

is the simc profile done @wind furnace ?

[wind furnace]

the problem is

[forest hamlet]

The weird thing is, that I have no idea how we compare to other classes. All I see are the sims from rogues comparing internally to other rogue specs. Idk if we are good or bad overall

[wind furnace]

it can't be done before raid trinkets are complete

if you mean "done done"

[mellow urchin]

Average from what it looks like

[nova nexus]

i mean done for what is under the implementation available

[wind furnace]

atm evaluating legendary slots

so, will need to see

but soon™️

[forest hamlet]

Unlucky, since our dmg profile doesn't seem to match the kind of fights so well in the new raid

[nova nexus]

so if we have “bad 252 setup” vs “nearly optimal simc profile” it should fall somewhere in the middle if you run EoN vs 278

[mellow urchin]

Well, you got anduin which is a very good sub fight

And thats the current hardest fight we know about

[wind furnace]

huh?

[pulsar axle]

they said something changed in Mythic, 100% dmg in 2nd phase but some increased dmg in P1

[wind furnace]

i don't think comparing both extremes is that great

[nova nexus]

take the extremes and it should end in the middle

[mellow urchin]

Ye its still a fight with lots of funnel

[wind furnace]

as saying "look the dagger is only worth 2% if you have bis gear" won't rly mean people are less concerned

but ye

i get what you say

[mellow urchin]

In almost all phases

[pulsar axle]

true, i mean certainly blz is not going to make it quite the show for sub if mythic is considered.

[forest hamlet]

True, actually. It's gonna depend on the comparison tho. Since we still have no raid utility, we would have to do a good chunk of more dps.

[mellow urchin]

Sub funnel isnt that strong anymore, to be considered problematic

Its just a niche

And slightly better than others

Not combo levels

[nova nexus]

from a very simplistic setup you could plot point the gearing level as the value drops. but yes people still going to freak

[wind furnace]

it is still rly strong

[pulsar axle]

if the P2 starts always with 100%hp, fire mage or hunters would be up.

[mellow urchin]

Yea

Thats true

And kinda trash for sylv daggers ironically

[pulsar axle]

indeed

[mellow urchin]

Prob wont use it on anduin if the guy is 100% each phase

[nova nexus]

just swap to it if there’s a burn

[mellow urchin]

True

Gear swap is a thing

[nova nexus]

if you really wanted to degen it. change enchants on the weapons

[pulsar axle]

hardest #8 boss in history, lul

[mellow urchin]

Sylv dagger is actually quite tragic on higher hp levels

[wind furnace]

agree

[livid ferry]

is crimson vial gonna be free with the new conduit level?

other than the gcd to press it obviously

[wind furnace]

soothing is still quite good tbh

[astral dragon]

Yea in combat it is, out of combat no

[wind furnace]

Mythic profile, dagger values:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ntiSgaq7cNLiCcY9qNeJEr

[wind furnace]

sim with enemy starting on 75%:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7X6pS1cXH2AFCR5LpbggYE

starting on 50%:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f7ksqVKriMSqtRuLKB6B5J

starting on 25%:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fzkW9Aj1VrYF4D2dDVa4jd

basically means switching in your mainhand would be marginal better on 50%

@clear zephyr think did ask about it.
Unsure who else was interessted