assumping we have mythic daggers
#9.2 Feedback and Discussion
wind furnace
rapid ledge
this is so stupid. i hate it lol
mellow urchin
my 18 dps
wind furnace
push letme ask you one thing
would you replace the dagger if the stat one is .1% better
your reaction implies you would?
nova nexus
does he have to spend money on enchanting it?
seems like a waste of good boosting gold
plus is screws his ilvl parse
rapid ledge
me doing more damage helps my group. but i guess everyone should be playing for parses 🤔
nova nexus
do you have a dagger?
wind furnace
your baseline will be a lot weaker without them
nova nexus
so instead of investing time complaining, invest time in performing better. control the narrative that you can control.
wind furnace
so your best option now is to agressively try to get hold of one ^^
i don't think he/she complains
nova nexus
or play a different spec or class if your dps is that boned
humble frost
So aggresive lol
rapid ledge
its not about MY dps. i dont care about my dps. ill stop when needed. but ill try to get every possible edge to help my group. happens to be edge of night lol
mellow urchin
would you replace the dagger if the stat one is .1% better
if the boss doesnt have a very strict execute timer ye
the daggers are rng you know
dont need that shit
in my life
with this tier set
nova nexus
its not about MY dps. i dont care about my dps. ill stop when needed. but ill tr...
probably should care about your dps. unless you’re just planning on gear carrying ou
rapid ledge
im sure you get the point. i want to be able to deal damage when its needed. i dont care about the number
wind furnace
scath its fine, you got your point across. no need to re-iterate the same thing multiple times
feral schooner
Fuu your the man. What about Slyvanas Dagger combos Mythic + hc offhand Hc + normal offhand etc
wind furnace
i don't rly want to run all possible combinations
coarse quiver
i already did those sim
feral schooner
i don't rly want to run all possible combinations
Pin them please if you do
feral schooner
theyre worse
mind sharing?
wind furnace
XD
nova nexus
when can we burn this thread @wind furnace ? 
wind furnace
i mean i did a sim above, the heroic is abour 1% worse or so?
we will probably start to move 9.2 into the channel soon
ocean ridge
finally we have a date
wind furnace
i will need to update the #subtlety-faq too
feral schooner
Yeah please include those sims so people know! 🙂
rapid ledge
this thread should live forever. as a reminder of what happen when an offhand is powerful 
feral schooner
tbh doing hc slyvnas shouldnt be an issue in a okish guild. We did normal stone legion for the legendary memories
wind furnace
not sure i would want to pug heroic sylvanas
coarse quiver
its just not really worth
rapid ledge
not sure i would want to pug heroic sylvanas
its not fun. takes at least 5x more time lol
wind furnace
thereads don't get delete, just closed after a certain time
nova nexus
scari: give rogues opportunity at cool loot. rogues: please nerf.
rapid ledge
dont forget to make that opportunity as small as possible 😉
nova nexus
you had 8 months
humble frost
not sure i would want to pug heroic sylvanas
Well I was thinking in pugging mythic sylv
but it seems is not possible since there arent groups
humble frost
You used mythic sylv instead of heroic, in the 285 mh sim
nova nexus
and just maybe mythic ce loot should be important and relevant.
humble frost
You used mythic sylv instead of heroic, in the 285 mh sim
the 13499 sim
oh wait are that mythic or heroic daggers? @wind furnace
wind furnace
oh ye seems so
wind furnace
letme double check
acoustic cobalt
There’s part of the convo that’s kind of sitting weird with me. By saying “nerfing eon kills sub”, aren’t you by extension saying sub is dead without having the dagger in the first place?
mental estuary
There’s part of the convo that’s kind of sitting weird with me. By saying “nerf...
I was told that was a terrible argument and I should feel ashamed for mentioning it.
acoustic cobalt
Respectfully, if somebody could explain why that isn’t true I’d appreciate it
wind furnace
the conversation is just repeating since days
and there are 2 sides, one wants the dagger to remain strong, one wants it to not be relevant
rapid ledge
talking about eon is fun. its like kicking an hornet nest
buoyant gyro
I one could technically make this argument this tier as well. Question is really as to if it's a problem. Normally I don't think it's an issue for gear dependency in an MMO (that's kinda the point of why raids give gear) but the frustration primarily comes from the acquisition method for daggers being super unreliable.
nova nexus
Respectfully, if somebody could explain why that isn’t true I’d appreciate it
for players pushing HoF it will matter. for everyone else it won’t. those pushing HoF should have had plenty of farm time this tier.
wind furnace
i think it matters for everyone having 1k more dps on any player benefits him at any level of play
buoyant gyro
Realistically it's very difficult--if not impossible with the current mechanics--to make an OH proc weapon both good and also not carry into the following tier. Unless the next tier also has a similar weapon design. Because our OH scaling from WDPS is so poor.
nova nexus
i think it matters for everyone having 1k more dps on any player benefits him at...
most of the player base can play better vs drooling over a top end sim they’ll never see
buoyant gyro
The true long-term solution would actually be to make our WDPS scale factor for OH to actually be decent
wind furnace
i think you missunderstand scath
buoyant gyro
But then we run into more issues with getting daggers being difficult because of loot rules
nova nexus
pleas help me then
acoustic cobalt
I’m more so asking about viability of sub with/without EoN. I’m accepting the fact EoN is going to ship as is. But I’ve seen it stated many times that “sub need EoN” to be viable
mossy carbon
I’m more so asking about viability of sub with/without EoN. I’m accepting the fa...
Because assassination exists
buoyant gyro
I mean no spec "needs" it, but clearly they balanced around it for this tier because of course they would need to balance around it
They could delete it and boost our class passive any time they wanted to
"Need" is a very flexible concept
nova nexus
@buoyant gyro are the OH weapons not normalized with sht to avoid using “special” 1H like vein ripper or is it just left over crap
wind furnace
but balancing around it means that everyone without it has a quite noticable disadvantage
acoustic cobalt
According to many in the discussion, sub does in fact need it to be competitive. So I’m just repeating verbiage used in this discussion
wind furnace
so if they rly balance around it, it would potentially make sense to not do so
buoyant gyro
<@!116203458129821697> are the OH weapons not normalized with sht to avoid using...
I mean it's more the fact that Sub OH scale factor is total shit because very few of our damaging abilities use OH or hybrid AP, plus the 50% penalty anyway
nova nexus
again, are they balancing around some sims from a discord? idk
rapid ledge
do you expect people from blizzard to not at least look this thread sometimes?
buoyant gyro
I mean they are going to balance around any source of data, and logs have EoN too
nova nexus
you give info. what they do or don’t do with it is on them.
wind furnace
normalizing offhand sht procs is actually not that easy too
nova nexus
they can easily look at logs
acoustic cobalt
I understand the whole CE blah blah, but like fuu said, free 1k damage is useful no matter what level of play you do
buoyant gyro
So clearly they aren't going to be like "let's tune Sub around not having EoN and then when they have EoN they will do 10% more damage than everyone else"
nova nexus
get CE get daggers. or farm LFR N and H and get daggers
this tier is legit 8 months old
and it’s still easier to swap to rogue than fire mage in 8.3k forget we are using last tier gearing
rapid ledge
i get that people get defensive about these but seriously you cant say that its not flawed
wind furnace
but tuning around EoN would only make sense if everyone would easy get them
nova nexus
because you didn’t get an item, it’s not a flaw.
rapid ledge
how is this not a flaw? how about new player?
wind furnace
because everyone who wants to play rogue inherently can't unless they prepeared in advance by a lot given the bad drop rates
rapid ledge
the game is more than just a subgroup of people who got them in the first place
wind furnace
assuming on a competitive level
nova nexus
this is the last tier of an already elongated expansion.
humble frost
because everyone who wants to play rogue inherently can't unless they prepeared ...
EXACTLY
That.
That's the whole point.
nova nexus
a new player needs a 259 edge of night? 
buoyant gyro
I mean at that point you're talking about a larger question about seasonal design and if full gear resets should be a thing in an MMO
Which is far beyond the scope of this thread or Rogues in general
buoyant gyro
You're basically going to have people on both sides of that argument
wind furnace
yes, thats basically why this discussion repeats ^^
mental estuary
The problem Scath is the loot rules are shit. I have CE I've rolled in it in the chest for months now.
It is flawed. You're saying the Dagger is what makes rogue viable so you can't nerf... but that means that everyone not farming SoD in 9.1 can't play rogue in 9.2.
They already have made design choice 100 times that you should have gear resets every season.
humble frost
Yeah and that would make this discussion go in an infinite loop
wind furnace
there is also a trust problem, as nobody does trust blizz to balance correctly if they decided to nerf it
rustic flower
Gonna prep Sub for 9.2 in case is starts wildly outperforming Assa in raid. What is the pref 2nd leggo and slot?
nova nexus
I sat in nyalotha because lol corruption. Perfecto sat RWF because shards. you all really think daggers are going to drop like candy the first 3 weeks you’re actually on crack.
buoyant gyro
But here's the issue really. Just disabling the daggers would require some form of re-evaluation of the spec's performance. Because almost all the observation on logs, sims, PTR testing etc. has been with them present in the environment. So I'm sure people are hesitant to engage in that large effort for basically what amounts to a ~1% DPS difference at the end of the day.
plucky storm
I sat in nyalotha because lol corruption. Perfecto sat RWF because shards. you a...
Akaari on hands
rapid ledge
But here's the issue really. Just disabling the daggers would require some form ...
not having to care about weapon until the last 3 boss is pretty cool imho
plucky storm
wind furnace
1-2% if compared to the dagger to the last boss of the raid
nova nexus
last boss of the raid isn’t prog
wind furnace
Gonna prep Sub for 9.2 in case is starts wildly outperforming Assa in raid. What...
akaari for st, finality else
nova nexus
it’s irrelevant
humble frost
how is not that prog
wind furnace
and thats part of the discussion, the diffrent at the very end after tier is low. But during progression a lot more noticable
nova nexus
you can’t have the loot from the last boss before killing the last boss
nova nexus
so prog is over when that boss dies
humble frost
the point is that you need the weapon from that boss to be able to start comparing it to EON
rapid ledge
so i guess we just got 3000 iq played by blizzard and EoN is a 9.2 item finally
wind furnace
and i am not saying i am for nerfing it, i am for keeping it op. But i absolutely can understand why there could be a incentive to change it or people complaining
rustic flower
and thats part of the discussion, the diffrent at the very end after tier is low...
finality on back then yeah?
wind furnace
yes
nova nexus
@plucky storm assa the same shit show?
wind furnace
you don't want to overlap with tier slots
acoustic cobalt
So the TL;DR - play assa in raid if you don’t have EoN?
wind furnace
not nessecerly
nova nexus
that’s what it is now. or play assa if you don’t want outlaw rng
humble frost
It was really hard to get EON (one of the reasons I quit wow this patch), so i guess it makes sense they are not balancing it at all for players who farmed it
wind furnace
assassination is from what i remember still not ahead till reaching the 4p bonus
buoyant gyro
I mean it's not like it will be any easier to get weapons in the next raid either
buoyant gyro
Dagger acquisition is literally the core of this entire problem
humble frost
I mean it's not like it will be any *easier* to get weapons in the next raid eit...
There are more weapons, or..?
wind furnace
don't we have more daggers in the raid, so at least a small increase of chance of getting one?
humble frost
iirc there were 3 daggers intead of 2
clear zephyr
don't we have more daggers in the raid, so at least a small increase of chance o...
But still a downgrade even if you get them
Until rygelon
wind furnace
they are not if you don't have the sylvanas dagger
buoyant gyro
I mean we don't even have access to the final 3 bosses the first week so
clear zephyr
M+ vaults as well then
nova nexus
tier bosses are 2 non tier items. lol get wrecked getting a dagger
and now tier randomly replaces vault items
so that pool is larger
buoyant gyro
Nobody's gonna be using their GV on an OH
That's like the least efficient DPS upgrade in the history of mankind
Other slots would have to be literal trash to be worth picking a 2nd weapon from GV
clear zephyr
I thought we were talking about if you don’t have a sylvanas dag
But yeah koji I agree
plucky storm
<@!167090536602140682> assa the same shit show?
Think we’re barely sticking with a mythic
It’s a lot closer
buoyant gyro
Without the EoN proc, vanilla weapons, etc.
13 levels on an OH is only about 0.3% DPS
nova nexus
how will I ever play 9.2 sub. I don’t have a 259 eon. help!
koji how’s outlaw looking. less rng?
winged fiber
So you’re saying I get to start the tier with decent weapons and not have to waste my valor or get shit rng and do pvp
I see this as an absolute win
wind furnace
you basically can not care about weapons at all if you have mythic eon
nova nexus
I see this as an absolute win
but think about the newbies
wind furnace
but its also somewhat concerning if thats a good thing in a mmo ^^
winged fiber
If they don’t have a mythic edge by now then they don’t need one
wind furnace
yes, we had this discussion multiple times now 🙂
nova nexus
such a toxic elitist attitude. 
nova nexus
yes, we had this discussion multiple times now 🙂
it’s just rng when it ends
wind furnace
in the end we saw no changes to the dagger, so i guess there isn't to much incentive to iterate
nova nexus
embrace the tier set
forest terrace
they clearly need to nerf eon now for new tier, you cant let it go like this its as good as mythic weps for new tier
winged fiber
I mean tbh I’d rather some people who don’t farm sylvanus be a little weaker than rogue be actual dog shit because of the dagger nerfs
wind furnace
people who have it can be happy, those who have not will need to either not care or bite the bullet to do sylvanas mythic next tier
golden agate
I honestly wish they had made EoN a quest reward and unique-equipped.
Did I need it for anything I did on my rogue? No, but it still feels kinda bad to never really have a chance at the item because of the guild you're in/your unwillingness to swap the guild you're in
winged fiber
Like you lose out on 100ish Dps from next tiers absolute bis or it gets nerfed and rogue is trash again
nova nexus
they people that don’t have it are going to stop plying 4 weeks into the tier when they get tilted at wow again and the sub it up.
rapid ledge
dude can you be less condescending?
humble frost
I honestly wish they had made EoN a quest reward and unique-equipped.
Did I need...
I would like they implement something to control bad-rng strikes with such powerful items
nova nexus
straight 📠
nova nexus
people so angry all the time about loot
wind furnace
pasmeta is correct, there is no reason to look down on ppl who haven't gotten the dagger yet or don't raid mythic
humble frost
Make people farm the old raid
That's a good point tho
winged fiber
People always clamoring that old content is meaningless
forest terrace
Like you lose out on 100ish Dps from next tiers absolute bis or it gets nerfed a...
isnt 285 last 3 bosses ilvl, basically 2x259 ilvl eon invalidates all new tier mythic gearing , cant go live untouched
winged fiber
It can
Because it doesn’t invalidate all new daggers
Just the offhand
Which I’m also cool with
rapid ledge
so 50% lol
winged fiber
This situation is literally a win for all rogues
wind furnace
there are a lot of ppl who play the game for extended periods in a patch that don't have the dagger on mythic.
It seems not fair to say people who don't have it will quite 4 weeks in
acoustic cobalt
No it’s not?
arctic field
its pretty reasonable to assume that people who care about BiS would have atleast one
rapid ledge
you can be unlucky
acoustic cobalt
I mean tbh I’d rather some people who don’t farm sylvanus be a little weaker tha...
Ip so facto, no EoN= sub is dog shit
By this logic?
winged fiber
Yea which is why nerfing it would be stupid
arctic field
sure, theres always gonna be exceptions, its just very unlikely if you tried to get one
winged fiber
Basically kills rogue lol
wind furnace
its pretty reasonable to assume that people who care about BiS would have atleas...
i think its fair to state that people in high enough world ranks will 100% have 1 dagger
acoustic cobalt
No.. that logic means sub is already dead without eon
wind furnace
killing sylvanas very late in the patch would dramatically reduce your likelyhood of having it
winged fiber
No because we have eon?
wind furnace
even if you care about bis
winged fiber
Ok so go get one
acoustic cobalt
Sub base has no eon
winged fiber
It’s literally like 100 Dps diff at full bis
rapid ledge
rich people telling poor people to get rich
winged fiber
Can literally overcome that with rng
arctic field
sure, but you also posted a sim with the heroic dagger, which is still a huge dps increase
nova nexus
fuu at some point people just need to shit or get off the pot. most people calling for a nerf can probably find more than a 2% increase in dps by improving their gameplay the complaining about a drop from content they never did.
wind furnace
It’s literally like 100 Dps diff at full bis
but people are not concerned about bis, having 150 less dps at the top end is less of a concern if you already do 13k+ dps
but the start of the patch will be more like 10k
forest terrace
rich people telling poor people to get rich <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
continue to ignore all gearing part , pls continue like this :). every other class will have try to get new weps, meanwhile you will be only %1.4 dps behind full bis with your 259x2 eon, unacceptable
wind furnace
and having 1k more dps at 9-10k is a quite noticable diffrence
winged fiber
Yea I’m in the category of I’d rather not have my class gutted because some people don’t want to ever kill sylv yet still get her loot
rapid ledge
continue to ignore all gearing part , pls continue like this :). every other cla...
not having to look for weapon is a pretty big upside
humble frost
They should buff 9.2 weapons copium
winged fiber
Dude not having to care about dagger drop rng on patch launch is literally my wet dream
humble frost
that's the solution
wind furnace
and nobody rly wants the dagger to be bad or a nerf to rogue
nova nexus
and having 1k more dps at 9-10k is a quite noticable diffrence
so is not being hamstung by needing 2L and 4P
forest terrace
not having to look for weapon is a pretty big upside
sorry i replied to wrong person i was trying to reply to drip kings only 100 dps behind message
acoustic cobalt
Again, you are proving my point. If nerfing eon means gutting sub. It means sub is already gutted without eon
wind furnace
i think there is no good solution to the dagger situation
humble frost
i think there is no good solution to the dagger situation
The solution is buffing 9.2 weapons
winged fiber
Leave it alone let people farm old content
rapid ledge
there is no good. but there is less bad solutions
acoustic cobalt
You really think there’s gonna be whole raids farming mythic sod? Yeah right
humble frost
I think everyone would be happy with that
forest terrace
yep as lievet said they have to create similar powerful dagger again to invalidate eon
acoustic cobalt
I’ll believe it when I see it
winged fiber
Like you’re complaining about not getting full absolute 100% bis in the future when you’re not even doing that now
wind furnace
having the dagger nerfed will lead to weaker output and a lot of evaluation that needs to be re-done
having the dagger as is leads to a potential weaker tuning and still has the problem of aquisition
winged fiber
So what’s the difference
wind furnace
you can't rly make both fronts happy, and it seems like the current idea is to keep the dagger relevant
rapid ledge
having the dagger nerfed will lead to weaker output and a lot of evaluation that...
now its a balance on how impactful it is. i say its going to be nerfed after race to first
buoyant gyro
After the race to WF it won't even matter
wind furnace
and to emphasize this, i don't think being toxic about either opinion is the correct way to go about it
winged fiber
Yea just makes rogue very slightly weaker for farm lol
wind furnace
sometimes you need to accept that different opinions exist
nova nexus
After the race to WF it won't even matter
it won’t matter for RWF… rogues in RWF. 
buoyant gyro
I don't really see a world where they fully re-balance the spec class passive and all that just to offset a 150 DPS difference due to an OH...
It's really not that big of a deal
wind furnace
yes, it seems unreasonable to expect a change
clear zephyr
Un nerf tier set, nerf dagger
buoyant gyro
Font was very significantly more impactful than this and Blizzard did nothing about it
wind furnace
was font 10% dps?
clear zephyr
True and convergence of fate 👀
mental estuary
Even if a guild wanted to play a rogue in WF, maybe can't because lots of their alts might not have Sylvies. :pepeclown-1:
wind furnace
i assumed font was lower in impact
rapid ledge
how is that not a big deal? it goes agaisnt loot being interesting. it invalidate most of the weapons for sub in the next patch. but its fine. lets close our eyes and keep thinking its healthy for the game
humble frost
Is that bad/hard if they buff 9.2 weapons?
forest terrace
do you remember any example in the patch that any class dont need new weapons from new patch ? and previous tier weps equal to highest ilvl weps, and even better than highest ilvl from raid tier on offhand 😄
winged fiber
But by hypothetical pure bis rogue in the future will be marginally worse if I need a sylv dagger 
clear zephyr
do you remember any example in the patch that any class dont need new weapons fr...
Legion
wind furnace
Is that bad/hard if they buff 9.2 weapons?
thats not that simple without adding effects to them
nova nexus
do you remember any example in the patch that any class dont need new weapons fr...
8.3 fire mage, expect casters don’t care about weapons but trinkets
mental estuary
thats not that simple without adding effects to them
Just give a pseudo sylvie Dagger effect to the last boss Dagger that only works if it's in your offhand. Does that not solve the problem completely?
forest terrace
8.3 fire mage, expect casters don’t care about weapons but trinkets
how come ? was there a better weapon from previous tier on 8.3 ? i dont remember that
wind furnace
and possibly make eon worse at higher itemlevels
buoyant gyro
was font 10% dps?
I really think talking about the EoN as "10% DPS" is somewhat misleading though. That's a very brief window when we lose current borrowed power, haven't yet gotten a weapon, and haven't gotten tier yet. People doing 9k DPS will be at a huge disadvantage already if they haven't gotten lucky with tier sets and that's a much bigger problem for them than the dagger%.
People will be brought to early CE Mythic prog who have 4pc bonuses and then that figure isn't really relevant anymore
nova nexus
how come ? was there a better weapon from previous tier on 8.3 ? i dont remember...
casters don’t care about wdp so they are just stat sticks. the trinkets let them pop off more than any weapon. asking for a comparison when they don’t give a shit about weapons just doesn’t work
rapid ledge
casters don’t care about wdp so they are just stat sticks. the trinkets let them...
weapon for caster are usually big upgrade. KT staff is insane for most caster
wind furnace
so if you are in the position to be unlucky with tier set, you would still outdo people who have the 2p but not eon by quite a bit
forest terrace
casters don’t care about wdp so they are just stat sticks. the trinkets let them...
stilli it gives more intellect or stats
mental estuary
Casters do care about weapons. Biggest stat stick they have.
wind furnace
but i agree, the impact of eon will get lower over time and rly only has this insane value in the beginning
winged fiber
Which is why I like it
wind furnace
but i assume the same applied to font?
nova nexus
in 8.3 fire mages could put a green dagger on if every other check mark was ticked
winged fiber
Makes your transition to next patch easier if you have it, less time spent farming valor daggers etc
forest terrace
scath still higher ilvl wep gives more dps, unlike eon situation 😄
winged fiber
But at the end of the day even if you don’t have one it doesn’t really matter
Unless you pushing for high ass wrs cause scaling basically catches up with it anyways
nova nexus
scath still higher ilvl wep gives more dps, unlike eon situation 😄
way lower ilvl trinket gave them more power than any other current tier trinket which was more relevant
buoyant gyro
Also that 1k DPS difference is assuming current ilevel daggers right? Like by the time you get your 2pc/4pc, again, the people who would pull ahead if they killed EoN would be those who got a MH from Heroic or something anyway
So comparing to non-Heroic MH weapon at a minimum seems odd
wind furnace
yes ofc
buoyant gyro
Or at least max base ilevel from M+ in Mythic week
nova nexus
fuu just likes seeing the world burn
buoyant gyro
So I don't think it's quite as simple comparing just to Betrayer's Shadowspike imo
From a practical standpoint anyone who is in that position can at least farm for max drop ilevel dagger once M+ opens up
winged fiber
fuu just likes seeing the world burn
I feel like my option of buffing eon would cause the most complaints which is why I’m all for it
clear zephyr
278
nova nexus
I feel like my option of buffing eon would cause the most complaints <:kekw:6101...
i’m just tired of the entitled to free gear. I was in the minority of not having one at all. i could still log on and raid with the homies.
wind furnace
One additional thing is also important
nova nexus
100% fix dagger acquisition in the game
don’t expect a free EON when you’re not raiding mythic or clearing CE
wind furnace
the dagger value will also depend on the covenant, its less worth on venthyr than on kyrian
winged fiber
don’t expect a free EON when you’re not raiding mythic or clearing CE
That’s fair
buoyant gyro
Right I was going to say, there's another factor there being that someone without EoN might claw back some of the difference just by going Venthyr instead of Kyrian as well
winged fiber
I went back and farmed ep to get my coral
clear zephyr
Play venthyr get KA and win
winged fiber
In nya
buoyant gyro
Think there are definitely ways to mitigate down that 1k figure when accounting for Venthyr + M+/H gear drops for 9.2
wind furnace
it will be fine if you grind m+ and potentially play venthyr
i shouldn't have optimized kyrian tho
as this means i can't make the argument that both are very close in output without the dagger
clear zephyr
But that’s not your fault
wind furnace
yes, you can blame me for that
clear zephyr
Well I appreciate what you did 🙂
buoyant gyro
I mean, I'm certainly sensitive to people without the dagger. I didn't have mine for a very long time, it's obnoxious. Still never seen one drop since I got all mine from the GV.
At the end of the day I think dagger acquisition is a real big problem
forest terrace
thats why they dont wanna return to wep token, it was better and ppl got their wep faster
humble frost
At the end of the day I think dagger acquisition is a real big problem
That's the real problem here.
That made some people quit or get burnt
wind furnace
venthyr was only 1% behind, look at this tragedy now:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4CB53XUWuBXEgagGMBsDyt/simc
(without sylvanas dagger)
buoyant gyro
You say tragedy, I say blessing!
Down with Venthyr
(I'm just kidding, although I do really enjoy Kyrian Sub)
wind furnace
we need to find a insane night fae improvement to put it on top
also still sad about necrolord
clear zephyr
Going to wake up tomorrow and see NF be BiS 
wind furnace
we should join the #reworkdeathspike club
delicate osprey
i quite like how necro would work if shadowblades affected sbs
but now it is kinda ooofieooof
nova nexus
we should join the #reworkdeathspike club
this is the way
elder cloak
Hey just trying sub, is this dmg breakdown normal?
steel meadow
did u kill rare mob or what is this
elder cloak
guess EoN really is that good
steel meadow
300k dmg
steel meadow
in raid it would be 6-7%
wind furnace
btw. i was not incorrect assuming RC 2 weeks before launch
ptr is down likely in preparation for a RC build
steel meadow
release candidate or resonating clarity 
delicate osprey
i knew getting vacation for 7 to 13 was genius
feral schooner
having 2 EoN instead of 1 252 mainhand and 1 EoN is a damage upgrade O_O
Yes been like that forever. The lfr version is better then a 252 dagger
livid ferry
i had no idea
tight sapphire
forum is gonna burn when the rc only has some mage fixes 
mellow urchin
forums will burn if they dont fix the fucking tier stats 😡
buoyant gyro
Forums can't burn if everyone is playing Elden Ring though
But yeah it's odd. Feels like a lot of bug fixes really need to happen in a pretty short period of time
Current build isn't that amazing
mossy carbon
If trinket values get fixed and tier stats don't change at the same time, think I'm going to accept life with 15% haste
buoyant gyro
Well Outlaw is still pretty scuffed with the set bonus bugs
mellow urchin
really
are you sure its bugs
or just assume its bugged
i assume its the interactions with legendaries?
buoyant gyro
Been confirmed it’s supposed to be fixed
buoyant gyro
Bunch of changes got reverted somehow
mossy carbon
The flag stacks stuff?
mellow urchin
they fixed it and it got reverted?
buoyant gyro
2pc/4pc interacting with procs and auto proccing and stuff
Yeah got fixed like 3 builds ago
Then broke again
Been really hard to figure out how everything works
When it changes like every build lol
ocean ridge
so im guessing the fixes will be in the incoming build
mossy carbon
Hopefully, I just had to update my ptr and realms are still down
Crit/vers on every tier piece and dreadblades OP inc
ocean ridge
lol
mossy carbon
PTR up now, also a release candidate
mossy carbon
Pantheon trinket still not fixed, they can still change it
mossy carbon
Oh nice, I thought it was only rogues
buoyant gyro
Apparently it’s not just leather
mossy carbon
That's good then
mellow urchin
every single leather class has the same stats
buoyant gyro
Cloth folks just told me it’s the same as last tier for their slots too
mellow urchin
must be something related to the items going to token
idk
perhaps you can choose stats in the token
mossy carbon
that's way too much copium
grim rover
venthyr was only 1% behind, look at this tragedy now:
<https://www.raidbots.com/...
Thats 4pc dbl leggo sim?
nova nexus
Thats 4pc dbl leggo sim?
just look at the pins
winter zephyr
Has anyone done sims or anything to figure out where we are going to slot legos like akkari and finality etc with the addition of tier piece? (trying to plan ahead and buy some mats while they are cheap for upcoming patch)
fair vortex
Has anyone done sims or anything to figure out where we are going to slot legos ...
There’s no telling if the stats on all the pieces are finalized so you can’t really say for sure which slot you’ll run a leggo in for optimal setup
nova nexus
there’s also no telling what tier pieces you actually get. plan on recrafting if you want to min max
steep spear
Kyrian BiS :(
keen ravine
there is going to be a new lvl to legendaries right
plucky storm
yes
steep spear
I'm preparing for 9.2, should i craft Toxic Onslaught on Feet because Legs and Chest will be Tier Set pieces?
Or isn't the T-Sets Head/Shoulder/Chest/Hands/Legs?
mellow urchin
toxic onslaught
nova nexus
crafting deathspike on chest. can’t wait for 9.2
pulsar axle
Is it a bug that NS does not increase BP dmg? or I heard it wrong?
wind furnace
Thats 4pc dbl leggo sim?
its 4p 2 lego
bitter aurora
is there going to be another post for the 2piece/ 4 piece and no set sims ?
wind furnace
unsure what you request
pins:
- sylvanas dagger evaluation sim
- 2 piece bonus/4 piece bonus(complete set) 1 legendary sims
- Legendary combination sims with 4p(complete set) 2 legendary + Comparison of best resutls
- Sims from Venthyr/Kyrian for 2p/4p value (with 2 legendarys)
if there is something missing, i can add it, unsure if something is not covered
robust lotus
I suppose he wants to know dps going into next patch (although he can do that himself just simming without any dom gems equipped)
wind furnace
should be around 10-11k if you have very good gear, e.g. kyrian:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3die9ab6oXoCQSSdRZDkU
robust lotus
wind furnace
ye, the expected range
wind furnace
i did simply remove the dom gems and did not search for replacements with better stats
so there is room for more dps by doing that
robust lotus
yeah
ah I see what I did wrong
Had nightstalker on from torghast still
there we go
wind furnace
👍
wind furnace
Gonna prep Sub for 9.2 in case is starts wildly outperforming Assa in raid. What...
just to iterate on this as i wasn't sure if this was expressed correct about tier slots and might got lost in the discussion.
Akaaris is supposed to go on the neck, because the hands/head slot can be tier slots.
Finality goes on Back because chest is a tier slot.
This does not nessecery mean those are the best slots for it as if we take akaaris for example the head slot would offer the biggest stat budget and the hand tier set slot has the worse stats for the spec.
But those slots are secure choices to not interfere when obtaining the tier set bonus that is a noticeable damage gain.
The difference between the best and worse legendary slot in contrast to that is minimal.
south osprey
Hope is to have 4 or 5 pieces before double legy, so no problems
But for mythic progress we have to consider where pieces drop
Like tier chest drops very late, so finality chest could be a safe pick if you get the other slots
wind furnace
you will at least 8 weeks in the patch be able to rotate legendary choices opening up 1 tier slot to be used for a legendary
and i am fairly certain that you will use one of those slots because they offer a high power budget and some pieces have not so good stats
south osprey
Do we know if dom gems are fully disabled except maw, torg and sod?
wise crescent
yeah disabled
wind furnace
you can pmuch assume a big power level drop with the patch
civic terrace
just to iterate on this as i wasn't sure if this was expressed correct about tie...
Wouldn't you be crafting it on the tier slot that you don't actually use for tier?
Since there are 5 pieces and set completes by 4
civic terrace
I guess it depends on the final stats on tier
wind furnace
i just talk about current stats
but its a interessting topic, because you can't in advance create a legendary that considers your tier slot drops
what is why we are in this situation
where you can gamble and create it on one of the tier slots
neat dagger
rwf will be very interesting.
the real powerspikes coming realy late in expac. the most wont have 4p in progress
wind furnace
or just craft it on a non tier and have in worse case a marginal weaker slot
as mentioned, the diffrence between slots is not as extreme as people think
mellow urchin
rwf will be very interesting.
the real powerspikes coming realy late in expac. t...
rwf players will all have 4p
neat dagger
cause of split runs
mellow urchin
they are doing some OMEGA degen shit
just watch it
ye
max said they are 100% getting 4p
on everyone
they will take "community help"
neat dagger
they always take community help
mellow urchin
ye but like
wise crescent
why is on every tier set haste?...
mellow urchin
cus its either not fixed
or forgotten
cus every leather tier set in the game
has the same stats
which is probably not what its meant to be
check monk, druid, dh etc
they all have the same stats
as us
neat dagger
im sure they wont let that go live
mellow urchin
nah
probably something you do very late
i really dont think the trinkets will give 1000 to ur best secondary either
its like almost 10x higher than it will be in the end
neat dagger
nah
wind furnace
max said they are 100% getting 4p
i think there is a high chance
bucket chars and agressive slipt raiding should secure 4p on most of them
there is still a chance that it doesn't but its a lot lower
wind furnace
yes, thats why i mention split raiding
wise crescent
they need 2 weeks for 4p anyways
wind furnace
they can funnel set pieces and can secure at least 3 slots on everyone
the 4th slot can likely be forced in normal 2nd week splits
mellow urchin
ye
just get fanboys that have normal/heroic tier pieces already
to join
and funnel
nova nexus
they’ve been prepping for nearly 6 weeks already
so when you see them streaming that’s outside of prep and meetings
crazy ass schedule for some of them
mellow urchin
method is kind of a dark horse i guess
neat dagger
what do u mean?
mellow urchin
nobody expects them to challenge echo/liquid
wind furnace
i think only a few guilds can even compete
esp. with how insane the preparation this tier is
nova nexus
it’s going to be a competition for 3-5 after liquid/echo
neat dagger
me too, but i hope it. imho the more guilds are right on, the more its fun to watch
wind furnace
pieces probably tiers to compete and some others, but i am not sure they rly have the same amount of effort put in from their raid team
mellow urchin
liquid has like
wind furnace
the requirements to have bucket chars, etc just went way beyond what is usual
mellow urchin
5x the resources
of everyone else
so the target is on their back to run away with it i guess
mellow urchin
doesnt matter in like 95% of situations
wind furnace
it rly is hard to judge
mellow urchin
no its not, if the raid ends on the tuesday, then NA had an advantage, thats about it
nova nexus
i can be a salty CE no daggies club member now.
mellow urchin
thats the only time where there can be an advantage
neat dagger
liquid always has 1 day advantage, last tier they couldnt beat echo
maybe same for the coming tier
wind furnace
my concern is tuning
because i am unsure if blizz designed the raid to have 4p already with mythic start
civic terrace
I think they will probably sooner be aiming high than aiming low this time
With what happened in SoD
nova nexus
@mellow urchin our MT in vacation. a hunter trial swapped to the Brewmaster this week. 31 pulls for him.
mellow urchin
civic terrace
Rolling out loot 
barren forge
everyone talking about the M sylv dagger. heroic dagger in the same boat? aka OH for 99% of the next patch?
nova nexus
if you have a dagger use it
barren forge
roger
nova nexus
if you don’t, keep farming
@wind furnace are the fixes for deathspike listed anywhere?
nova nexus
got it. i’ll try to mess with it over the weekend.
i’m assuming it’s still going to be bad for sub.
undone coral
So how much of a dps gain is mythic slyvanas offhand compared to heroic offhand in 9.2 any ideas?
shut valve
think he means 9.2 offhand from heroic sepulcher
nova nexus
run a sim with don shards off in current gear and set an offhand to whatever ilvl you want if that’s what you’re looking for.
I could be wrong but last I remember seeing N offhand is still worth it for prog
wind furnace
sylvans offhand simulations
also... if the question is "when do i replace sylvans mythic offhand"
the answer is never
nova nexus
i’m ready for more cries to nerf it If they in fact took snapshotting off assa. someone please test it
wind furnace
it is a locked slot with current tuning
turbid scaffold
it is a locked slot with current tuning
This doesn't go for the HC EoN?
wind furnace
one is with hc, one with mythic. it even says in the labeling
sleek mortar
i see the 285 vs EoN sims but is it possible for me to edit the sim to show 278vs EoN?
turbid scaffold
Ah sorry missed your post, thx
wind furnace
i see the 285 vs EoN sims but is it possible for me to edit the sim to show 278v...
sure, just change the ilevel=XXX lines in the input
sleek mortar
nvm you just linked it above
mellow urchin
if you dont have 1 heroic dagger yet
or evne 1 normal
its prob a good thing to keep killing sylv
thats pretty much the summary of any dagger question
yes its still good, yes it might get nerfed, but its better you have it than not in case it isnt
sleek mortar
i got 1 M and 2HC daggers, just need 1 more mythic
mellow urchin
as seen in the sims
you dont really need 2 mythic daggers
if you have 278 mh and m sylv OH, ur very much good to go
for any content
and 278 mh is not going to be super easy to get either, but you have vault, you have m+ (272 valor upgrade) and 2nd boss (mythic) drops it
robust lotus
being on 2nd boss is really really good
robust lotus
just hoping ph stats get updated for tier set
scarizard coming through with itemisation
very pog
robust lotus
yeah, people forget that only rogues can get them
mellow urchin
reminder that CN had the first dagger on council, literally weeks into the tier for most ppl 
robust lotus
everyone and their mum thinks feral can just cos their artifact was daggers in Legion
potent vault
reminder that CN had the first dagger on council, literally weeks into the tier ...
yes this caused me great trouble
winged fiber
I didn’t get Denny dagger till like month 6 or some dumb shit
Was using that sweet pvp gear all of prog
delicate osprey
i was not in for council so it was a struggle to even get it
nova nexus
I was stuck on DK for AMZzzzzzzzz
nova nexus
how did you ever get HoF without edge of night.
nova nexus
well if they nerf daggie and sub, we all playing outlaw. 🪦
allegedly
wind furnace
dagger is big for sub and outlaw
nova nexus
yes, but outlaw has less rng 
robust lotus
I won't spec anything but sub for the rest of the xpac
nova nexus
that’s fun?
robust lotus
I would rather cut my balls of with glass than do prog as assa or outlaw
nova nexus
did you play sub on the ptr with the tier set?
nova nexus
have fun friendo
robust lotus
out of the three specs, sub is the only one that is baseline fun to prog on
playing sub on sylvanas saved my mental
nova nexus
i cannot say the same
it was behind assa sim up until last week when I got the heroic, but wasn’t going to swap that far into prog
robust lotus
I had double heroic for a long long time
I was gearing both specs actively
I did the first 50-100 pulls as assa
nova nexus
if our druid wasn’t going prot warrior i’m 99% sure I’d just swap
robust lotus
and just couldn't do it
nova nexus
7 months to get a dagger albeit with a short break. just didn’t make sense to player the lower dps spec
nova nexus
we maybe not have killed if I was dropping dps. we nearly enraged.
so w/e
pain is over
nova nexus
yeah
robust lotus
hopefully that won't be a problem cos they quit
the first pull they all lived we killed it
funny how that worked
robust lotus
sub bis
unless they radically change it to not revolve around shadow dance
it always will be
nova nexus
it’s just too much rng to be enjoyable
but fun is subjective
so i don’t judge people and their stupid opinions of fun. 
robust lotus
Just don't connect with other classes like I do rogue
and I can play assa fine enough
nova nexus
i get that. idk if it’s just comfy shoes or what
coarse quiver
i want sub to have smoother target count decisions but i dont think thats possible
also lean more into sweaty finishers again would be a welcome change
civic terrace
What 
sleek mortar
not really a rogue issue tbh, 2-4 target feels great as outlaw
nothing changes pretty much
nova nexus
how’s target number 6 doing in pirate land?
amber falcon
tbh i still thinks that finality will be slightly better than akarii
even if sims say it diffrent
delicate osprey
dont worry someone has to grey log for us to get more than purples
amber falcon
i only mean that those values can always change but you guys are right
wanton comet
or procs without energy draw, which would probably also factor in WM
shut valve
i only mean that those values can always change but you guys are right
i sincerely doubt anything changes when it comes to legendaries/conduits going forward
if anything, they can tune the tier set, or our base damage
amber falcon
true
mellow urchin
or procs without energy draw, which would probably also factor in WM
ye that wouldnt work either would it
hushed comet
.
midnight goblet
I just wanna make sure abut ER in next patch
i guess we're using it outside of dance ?
midnight goblet
I didn't play kyr on live cause my guild stop raiding a while ago at 7/10 Mythic 😦
But can i ask why ? isn't dance boosting our dmg ? or considering the low damage of ER w/o conduit we don't want to waste a GCD on dance for it and prefere to use it for ss ?
mellow urchin
you cant use shadowstrike
out of dance
backstab is very weak
you're replacing a shadowstrike with the ER
instead of a backstab
civic terrace
To clarify a use of ER is still stronger than a Shadowstrike, so if the choice is to ER in dance or not at all you do ER in dance.. but ye you generally want to avoid doing that
midnight goblet
Ok thanks for your answers guys
forest hamlet
Did I interpret this correctly: We get a new Unity-lego that offers us the legendary bonus from our covenant and enables us to wear a 2nd legendary with any other effect. Does that mean we only have 1 covenant legi that auto swaps along when we swap covenants? In what slots can it be crafted?
hushed comet
Did I interpret this correctly: We get a new Unity-lego that offers us the legen...
yes and it's default on belt
we should be able to recraft that new memory later, at max rank ilvl
don't know what slots yet. besides the listed slots on the cov leggos now
forest hamlet
Okay, do we already know how to get sockets?
mellow urchin
don't know what slots yet. besides the listed slots on the cov leggos now
we do
its on every slot
except trinkets and weapons
hushed comet
Okay, do we already know how to get sockets?
there aren't any socket vendors on the ptr afaik
likely we get one when the patch comes out but who knows
hushed comet
its on every slot
really? every slot?
mellow urchin
yes
hushed comet
hushed comet
nova nexus
you upgrade belt and craft unity memory elsewhere.
wanton comet
So my old belt can be scrapped for resources and instead i use quest reward?
nova nexus
why would you want a lower ilvl item?
wanton comet
Guess I thought quest reward is 262
nova nexus
crafted is 291. unity belt is 27 ilvls lower
wanton comet
Oh that one cannot be upgraded?
nova nexus
you’re crafting ER on belt or shoulders. can just leave it on belt and use unity on the highest stat increase
put unity literally anywhere
signal nacelle
Do we know if items stats are final on ptr. There’s so much mastery gear. 2 of the 4 rings are big mastery.
nova nexus
assume they are, be happy if they change at launch
left storm
have we come to a conclusion whether its safe to craft akaari's on the neck right now?
winged fiber
u can refund legendaries
coarse quiver
just craft it in a month when it actually unlocks
livid ferry
Or find one crafter to giff mats and a fee. Then it shouldn't be 100k. As you can farm most now.
left storm
I will see if I can find one..I was gonna swoop the necklace real quick cause it was like 60k and wanted to snatch one before the great price gouge started.
livid ferry
What server you on Lie?
left storm
Mal'ganis
I think last I checked they like 59k or something like that but the prices seem to change every hour
livid ferry
Yeah personally i would just get mats. Save em til we are 100% sure just before next reset. And if you dont have a guildy or freind that can craft it. Spam trade and tell em fee will be paid. Its not that expensive at all to craft. Only Thing is the crystals. Can be hard to farm in 1 week. But you have 2x resets to do so. That way it end up costing you around 15k
wind furnace
have we come to a conclusion whether its safe to craft akaari's on the neck righ...
it is safe, it might not be the best slot in the long term
it is the only slot that is not a tier slot, so there isn't a lot of choice
livid ferry
But its blizz and they can still chance what slot it can be crafted. Aka just fuk rogues. 😉
wind furnace
why would they change it?
livid ferry
True.
wind furnace
that seems like a unfounded fear
livid ferry
I fear the greeks even when they bring gifts.
left storm
Its all good I just saw the neck for a reasonable price so was gonna jump on it..im cool with waiting a few more weeks.
I did this with the cloaks as well stocked up on cloaks a few weeks before the tier dropped.
was more asking cause someone mentioned a necklace from the raid and to hold off till they got a closer look at it..but if you say its safe I will grab one next time I see it up for a decent price.
coarse kettle
Hey Fuu, i cant find it anymore but where did you write down the Backstab logic in shadow dance
pulsar axle
5stacks+ && (shadow blade on | more than 3sec on the dance)
wind furnace
^ exactly this
coarse kettle
thanks
nova nexus
@wind furnace did you happen to run any of the EoN comparison sims with 2x heroic vs the 278s?
wind furnace
2x mythic dagger ye
wind furnace
its easy to adjust so what do you want to compare ?
nova nexus
you had the load out of the offhand & main hand as 259 vs the others. was curious what that looked like with heroic eon instead of mythic
nova nexus
so basically get a 278 and keep it in OH
nova nexus
didn’t the other sim show keeping heroic OH until 285?
nova nexus
yeah so you’re keeping it OH and replacing the MH at 278 if you only have heroic(s) and probably keeping 2 heroic if there’s an execute fight.
wind furnace
something like this
nova nexus
maybe that will keep people in check who don’t have the mythic. doubt it but, it is what it is.
jagged furnace
sadly yes, i have now 25 sylvanas hc kills and have done 3 vault chest every week and never got this daggers And now i have to do it until i get one even after the new content is released 😦
feral schooner
sadly yes, i have now 25 sylvanas hc kills and have done 3 vault chest every wee...
I said it often here. Get some rogues from this discord ask them to do with you sylvanas hc and they can trade you the dagger. If you need a trader happy to help
delicate plume
did anyone make a sim, for 259 sylvanas, is it better in offhand than 278 or 285
feral schooner
it is the best weapon in the offhand period
nova nexus
scroll up or look at pins
meager grove
it is the best weapon in the offhand period
this is the case with hc version too?
wind furnace
check the link i posted just some messages above
left bramble
haha its sick how strong even the hc sylv dagger is
left bramble
yeah only like 150 dps difference from mythic
clear zephyr
Left the CE no dagger club last night
wanton comet
still in the CE + 3k rio no-252-phial club
feral schooner
still in the CE + 3k rio no-252-phial club
tbh having no phial is not as bad as having no EoN dagger
civic terrace
phial is like 40 dps, its kinda whatever
delicate osprey
wait until the tier is not having jailer trinket kekw
you cant imagine how op is to have an on use each dance+SoD
hushed comet
yeah it's like 30sec CD isn't it
everyone is going to want that thing
there's also an Intellect trinket that every caster can wear which gives the entire raid CDR?
might be pretty OP if you have a bunch of them on farm
nova nexus
which is the 30th one trinket? i don’t recall that one
hushed comet
the 30sec one?
i believe it's the Jailer trinket
supposed to be a kiss-curse trinket iirc
gives hella stats but you take damage or something like that? idk
clear zephyr
It’s like arcanocrystal but with side effects
nova nexus
i just remember seeing the minisoulcap. i have to look again apparently.
delicate osprey
jailer trink is this one you can look at the procs here https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=368635/the-first-rune#see-also-other from first to fourth then last
it is kinda krangled as it is has no category rn
but you can expect the buffs to be super strong
nova nexus
Your Haste is increased by 68. 10% of damage you take will echo again 3 sec later. does not seem super strong
mossy carbon
There are 4 other buffs
wind furnace
jailer trinket looks broken tho
winged fiber
i don't enjoy these
mossy carbon
winged fiber
new wave of trinkets with downsides
nova nexus
so 2 stats that are meh
winged fiber
it's not unique or cool or flavorful it's just annoying
nova nexus
i'm not excited
winged fiber
it's the same as the eye trinket but worse
mossy carbon
so 2 stats that are meh
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=368636/the-second-rune
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=368637/the-third-rune
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=368641/the-final-rune
winged fiber
here's a shitty stat stick with dumb ass downsides
mossy carbon
The buffs stack up each time you press it, until you get to the final one where you get a big burst of stats
winged fiber
it's probably good
mossy carbon
Afaik numbers wise it's strong but not insane
winged fiber
every 2 mins u get 520 secondary stats
nova nexus
and this is exciting?
mossy carbon
It's not going to kill you
mossy carbon
The movement speed might, that's it
winged fiber
i don't want this trinket to be good
winged fiber
or we could just have cool trinkets
that don't make me randomly slowed by 20%
or take 15-20% of my hp
mossy carbon
I think this one is pretty cool
And the other jailer one looks interesting too since it's shadow damage
hushed comet
but that's just cringe af
i think it's dope
nova nexus
keep this shit going into 10.0 please /s
winged fiber
how is it dope
hushed comet
30sec cd
hushed comet
it's going to be strong
nova nexus
because scari said it would be?
nova nexus
or was that the healer shit
idk anymore
oooh dev talked to us, dev said it would be strong, trinket is cool is what I'm gathering. I just see stats with annoying shit to play around
hushed comet
boring shitty statstick + downsides
it's going to take actual thought process of "when it's safe to press this button or not"
nova nexus
just give me corruption back at that point
hushed comet
it's not just mind numbing "press on cd"
winged fiber
not really
hushed comet
is fusion amp fun to you?
hushed comet
IQD?
winged fiber
you just don't press it if you're at
10% hp
lol
fusion amp is fine
not interesting but
it's an active
extra button
hushed comet
you can't press it before dangerous mechanics?
mossy carbon
What kind of trinkets do you want? What trinkets this expansion have been 'exciting'?
This is an extra button
every 30 secs
nova nexus
why not? you have healers
nova nexus
no it's not your are 100% binding that to SOD and forgetting about it
winged fiber
coral
hushed comet
10% of damage you take will echo again 3 sec later.
winged fiber
or the one other than coral
that popped on 30%
or font
or the shit that reduced cd's from ellisande in nighthold
etc
trinkets that actually do something fucking unique and fun
mossy carbon
or the one other than coral
this expansion?
hushed comet
and yeah go for it if everyone in the raid is pressing that shit on CD your healers will mald
mossy carbon
I'm happy that we get something new this expansion
nova nexus
and you tell them to stfu
winged fiber
new does not = good
you can get new shoes made out of dog poop
not good for walkin
hushed comet
saying "that's what healers are there for" is just ignorant
unless you're talking a good ways into farm
hushed comet
where it won't matter
winged fiber
like glaives or bird from nighthold
or the legion timewalking aoe trinket pre nerf
where you press it and it fucking explodes shit
at least the oh hey i just exploded a bunch of shit part is kind of fun
hushed comet
and you tell them to stfu
go for it lol idk how your guild is but mine would /gk
nova nexus
STAT STICKS ARE NOT EXCITING OR FUN
nova nexus
idgaf what curse you put on it
winged fiber
hushed comet
neither is "this trinket does x damage"
winged fiber
it does if it does a cool animation and a bunch of burst damage
hushed comet
or "this trinket does RNG damage added to your autos"
nova nexus
i rather have a pvp trinket at that point
winged fiber
boring this trinket does damage etc
used to have really cool animations
there was one that like
passively shot out little homing rockets
one that summoned a fucking spaceship to air strike dudes
etc
at least if it looks cool it's pretty decent i guess but
meh
nova nexus
if stat sticks make you excited that's great. plenty of people like vanilla icecream too.
hushed comet
i'm not saying it's super exciting but i don't see any reason for complaints tbh
30sec cd on stats will likely be giga for a lot of specs
mossy carbon
I think it's fair to be annoyed about the kiss/curse stuff, undoubtedly it's going to be annoying for healers and wheelchair specs
hushed comet
meh
nova nexus
most specs are 2 mins cds. thats just a ramp trinket for them
mossy carbon
I hope the xymoz trinket has some interesting effects, the cycling weapon buff one
hushed comet
most specs are 2 mins cds. thats just a ramp trinket for them
those 2 mins will get the final rune then
?
clear zephyr
I liked umbral moonglaives
mossy carbon
I liked the KJ trinket, that's what I would consider an interesting trinket
nova nexus
do you're right back to malding your healers
hushed comet
guess some people are just never happy eh
clear zephyr
Thats payback for them eating IQDs all tier
nova nexus
not with a stat stick
mossy carbon
Especially since we may well be playing the covenant stat stick one
hushed comet
every item in the game is just a stat stick
nova nexus
winged fiber
So all those cool ass trinkets I listed earlier
nova nexus
stat sticks chief
winged fiber
Oof I never knew
winged fiber
Could be lol
wind furnace
i didn't like the kj trinket
positional requirements are always somewhat questionable for trinkets
winged fiber
Yea def
wind furnace
legion trinkets did benefit from spec damage amps too
thats why we had a lot of fun
with stuff like moonglaives
winged fiber
Oh true I forgot about that
nova nexus
I'm all for banter back and forth but dont bring in this all shit is a stat stick
hushed comet
i mean everything just does damage does it not
nova nexus
you're just pandering to thier lack of creativity in design
nova nexus
hardly, I want improvements made to the game that I still enjoy playing with friends instead of having shit systems and shit loot
winged fiber
I just want fun trinkets man
hushed comet
i agree for sure
mossy carbon
I just want fun trinkets man
What do you think about the other jailer trinket? The one where you need to run out and it does an AoE burst
hushed comet
but not having ever seen these "fun trinkets" makes it hit diffly ig