riot does one thing rly well and is taking good game concepts and polish/improve the formula
#9.2 Feedback and Discussion
wind furnace
winged fiber
Overwatch died from balance / hero design
hoary zephyr
Also Valorant is literally a CSGO clone
wind furnace
they did it woth lol, tft and valorant
hoary zephyr
Nah OW died because of OWL failure
mellow urchin
Also Valorant is literally a CSGO clone
i dont like the abilities
kinda ruins it for me
think its weird to play a csgo with abilities
winged fiber
Nah people would still play the game even if owl flopped
delicate osprey
i dont play fps apart from osu! having teammates is not my thing
winged fiber
The player base legit just quit from their shit hero design and balance cough Brigitte
hoary zephyr
I promise you OW died because OWL died lmao
You can’t even bring up Brigitte debacle into this
winged fiber
100% can
winged fiber
Brigitte Orissa Moira sigma
hoary zephyr
?
winged fiber
All bad hero design that slowly killed the game
hoary zephyr
That wasn’t even the meta
Lmao
OW died because of the ambitious push for it to be an esport
That’s why
winged fiber
Nope
winged fiber
Definitely didn’t help but that’s not what killed the game
mellow urchin
didnt the game become stale back during 3-4 tank shield meta
hoary zephyr
I played Professional OW and have friends in the industry that worked in that
hoary zephyr
That’s like the one argument people keep bringing up and it’s shields
wind furnace
think its weird to play a csgo with abilities
thats good tbh, i think its good to have competing titles
hoary zephyr
That’s not what caused the game to dwindle
winged fiber
didnt the game become stale back during 3-4 tank shield meta
Basically yea, you had shield tanks who could do damage from ranged and supports who could do everything and it just ruined the game state and then goats came in and put a nail in the coffin
hoary zephyr
Casuals still play OW tho
mellow urchin
sure
hoary zephyr
OW player base is really big
mellow urchin
but i didnt play it for years
hoary zephyr
Actually
wind furnace
valorant is also very nice to watch compred to csgo, csgo relies on good casters
mellow urchin
cus its easy to pick up
hoary zephyr
I get the meme that oh it’s dead but it kinda isn’t dead
It’s dead at the pro scene
At top % players don’t play anymore
pale jetty
overwatch unironically kept alive by r34
winged fiber
Ow is pretty dead compared to when it came out
mellow urchin
no game keeps their release playerbase
hoary zephyr
Dead doesn’t mean unpopular
pale jetty
i thought you meant the r34 thing 
hoary zephyr
Dead means Dota Artifact
mellow urchin
i mean d3 had like 10 millions of players
on release
doesnt mean 10 million is the benchmark
dota has 500k concurrent players
atm
which is pretty fucking good for a 10 year old game
wow has 1.5 mil
hoary zephyr
Right but 2 different games
mellow urchin
which should be insane
hoary zephyr
Dota has a lot more replayability value
D3 is… oh new season? Cool play for a week or so do a high GR and then quit until next season
pale jetty
mobas will always have more players than mmorpgs
pale jetty
not dota in specific
mellow urchin
3 years ago
pale jetty
but just the game mode
hoary zephyr
I mean the best mmo game is about to come to NA in 2 1/2weeks
So it doesn’t matter
mellow urchin
dont say lost ark
buoyant gyro
D3 is… oh new season? Cool play for a week or so do a high GR and then quit unti...
Yeah but at least they release a new season every 3-4 months compared to 8-9 😛
hoary zephyr
Did you play La?
robust lotus
I have
mellow urchin
ive watched ppl play it, and it seems very bland
buoyant gyro
Could argue D3 somehow adds more systems patch content than WoW in SL over the same 2 years 🤣
mellow urchin
havent played it myself
buoyant gyro
With like 1 guy working on it
hoary zephyr
It’s fun when you get into it
mellow urchin
Could argue D3 somehow adds more systems patch content than WoW in SL over the s...
tru
mellow urchin
but 1 guy running it is prob a good thing, means he doesnt have these morons telling him no
robust lotus
I played the whole of the alpha period
buoyant gyro
Haha true
robust lotus
hoary zephyr
Yeah but at least they release a new season every 3-4 months compared to 8-9 😛
Except during every season cycle it’s literally 5% change
mellow urchin
i imagine being on the d3 project is the equivalent to being demoted to the basement in most companies
mellow urchin
"perform better or we will put you on d3"
hoary zephyr
But I do think LA on the western release will be a bit slow because it will behind content compared to KR and RU
robust lotus
Is it not a good metric to get an idea of the enjoyment of gameplay
mellow urchin
quin69 played the korean version of lost ark for months
pale jetty
ive never seen LA
robust lotus
Psure it is
hoary zephyr
No it’s not
You are testing alpha of a game to see if the game is fun
Is definitely not a good metric or indication
Esp for an MMO
Where end game content matters
hoary zephyr
quin69 played the korean version of lost ark for months
Ya and kept getting banned lmao
The game is fun and definitely interesting at the end game
plucky storm
Hate to be that guy but no one cares about an overseas mmo in a 9.2 ptr channel
Cope about it being the next wow killer in #off-topic or something
robust lotus
mellow urchin
you know
robust lotus
mellow urchin
d4 is basically lost ark 2
hoary zephyr
Also there hasn’t been a single 9.2 sub discussion in a while
wind furnace
XD
hoary zephyr
Ya
wind furnace
we discussed daggers just earleir
nova nexus
Hate to be that guy but no one cares about an overseas mmo in a 9.2 ptr channel
very true
buoyant gyro
lol I was talking about WoW
robust lotus
mellow urchin
ye jk
buoyant gyro
Nobody cares about Lost Ark!
buoyant gyro
😄
mellow urchin
sub 9.2 is getting nerfed on wednesday
hoary zephyr
And other blizzard ips
hoary zephyr
LMFAOOO
wind furnace
sub 9.2 is getting nerfed on wednesday
idk, maybe they won't nerf us?
hoary zephyr
We could just tag scari a bunch of times and he will nerf rogue by 1% each tag
If sub is shit, gonna make sure class is shit
XD
mellow urchin
ive heard from reliable sources
that sub is indeed
getting nerfed this build
coming up
buoyant gyro
Never liked Sub anyway. Buff Survival.
mellow urchin
same
nova nexus
voices in your head are reliable sources? asking for a friend.
hoary zephyr
How reliable
robust lotus
His dad works for blizzard
mellow urchin
buoyant gyro
Have tried SV a few times also. Never really resonated.
mellow urchin
Have tried SV a few times also. Never really resonated.
its too much spam of 1 button
nova nexus
SV is just the hipster spec of the rogue hipster spec
hoary zephyr
On a scale*
wind furnace
Never liked Sub anyway. Buff Survival.
wind furnace
mystler is still around, and i also have koji
nova nexus
mystler quit. willing to help if needed.
hoary zephyr
Just make push do the work now
mellow urchin
i dont want to have to use bloodmallet for my alts
hoary zephyr
Give him green tag
wind furnace
herodamage is already a community project on github, its not mystler alone anymore iirc
nova nexus
it’s not. just a lot of his scripts
wind furnace
what i mean with that is that his scripts are on github and others contribute
mystler still did most/a lot of the work
(kutikuti, mystler, aethys are the main 3 contributors)
buoyant gyro
koji doesnt do sub stuff tho
Haha I mean mostly I leave it to them since they have it handled but if Fuu needs a hand I’m always good to look at things. 😄
I’ll guilt Mystler into updating HeroDamage if we need to though.
😛
wind furnace
adding 2nd legndary shouldn't be to problematic in terms of effort
buoyant gyro
At this point it doesn’t really need massive updates though I don’t think
Since the first leggo with Covenants can just go into the Covenant templates
Doesn’t add as much complexity
nova nexus
I’ll guilt Mystler into updating HeroDamage if we need to though.
guilt someone else into not making Necro covenant lego useless. 
buoyant gyro
Compared to if it was 2 of any leggo or something
2nd legendary is basically just a new Soulbind trait 😛
wind furnace
guilt someone else into not making Necro covenant lego useless. <:kekw:610125925...
well you would also make necro not op too
nova nexus
even if it’s still shit for sub, would be nice to see it have some love for either of the other two
modern whale
What are you guys getting for overalls on PTR fortified 15's
delicate osprey
really krangled things on the seasonal affix
i do kinda like it more than otheeers tho
sleek mortar
Is nightstalker looking better for 9.2?
sleek mortar
why nerf nightstalker? that's weirdge
hoary zephyr
No he meant the tier set
delicate osprey
for m+ we may play NS yees as venth
sleek mortar
i mean akaaris is still bugged right, so hopefully it somewhat balances out from tier nerf/bug fix
hoary zephyr
i mean akaaris is still bugged right, so hopefully it somewhat balances out from...
Already done the numbers for it
delicate osprey
many things are bugged that is why we need to wait a bit
hoary zephyr
It’s potentially not looking good for us
delicate osprey
i mean right now we are on the spot of just enjoy game not like people will take us seriously vs dh/dk/warr
just hope the dps nerf is not that much
hoary zephyr
Dk is dead
For sure
Lol
Their dmg profile is dogshit
Warrior is probably the best class
Tbh
delicate osprey
yea but same as ret if they have something you need you may take them
rogue
is just
well we have good people playing the class at least
nova nexus
Dk is dead
I mean they were raised, and blood looks kinda lit
sleek mortar
i didnt pay attention to sin/law too much, are they looking solid at least? if sub is potentially getting wrecked from nerfs
delicate osprey
i like the john fucking madden gameplay
yea assa is fine
and outlaw might get the set buffed a bit
nova nexus
i didnt pay attention to sin/law too much, are they looking solid at least? if s...
no one knows. all the tuning for all specs is up in the air
sleek mortar
nova nexus
everything is speculation
of the three sub has the least inspired tier set. but to each their own
nova nexus
they’re dead gameplay wise until 10.0
hoary zephyr
Even with the recent buffs it’s not good
gusty thunder
i didnt pay attention to sin/law too much, are they looking solid at least? if s...
Afaik it's looking sin for raid and sub for M+
nova nexus
both just suck play wise
delicate osprey
yea but like i told with bop if you need grip you take dk same old
hoary zephyr
Afaik it's looking sin for raid and sub for M+
Possibility this
But will have to see more
buoyant gyro
of the three sub has the least inspired tier set. but to each their own
Eh. I think the Outlaw one is worse in that regard. Sub one at least does something unique.
gusty thunder
At least at the beginning of the tier, as usual.
buoyant gyro
Outlaw one is just passive extra damage.
nova nexus
Eh. I think the Outlaw one is worse in that regard. Sub one at least does someth...
add more rng very unique.
delicate osprey
ambidex rising
crisp lichen
rogue = 
gusty thunder
I wouldn't mind if they would revert the whole pirate thing and we get combat WoD back.
delicate osprey
no one expect the gunshot nation attacks
tisu is kinda right
well lets hope next expansion something cool comes
crisp lichen
reroll ranged
nova nexus
at least assa changes it up a bit. @crisp lichen and JPc playing warriors. undad back to rogue. we fucked.
crisp lichen
how do you know what im playing
delicate osprey
my days of playing warlock and balance and mage as alts/mains are over
crisp lichen
I dont even know myself yet
delicate osprey
now i just enjoy game
nova nexus
how do you know what im playing
the same way everyone else in here knows what going on. voices man. the voices.
delicate osprey
i know im playing new poe league a lot
because dailies in wow have been dumbing
now you cant even grin
crisp lichen
also doubt jpcwar is gna be a thing
delicate osprey
they have really good wars already but who knows
nova nexus
I honestly don’t know how well he can or can’t play it. or if either of the specs are enough for early prog since both look cracked with second lego
delicate osprey
necro fury looks kinda lit as melee overall
gusty thunder
Can anyone recommend a YouTube channel other than the red rogue? I need to keep up with PTR at work
delicate osprey
and dh is just dh
crisp lichen
ignore second lego value
delicate osprey
that too
nova nexus
so kyrian fury for prog? meh. NF arms yay, but is tier enough to replace shards. idk
delicate osprey
yea i think glory is kinda busted as a raid dps thing
nova nexus
I noticed necro got closer than 9.1.5
delicate osprey
same as kyrian boomy/feral but they wont see the light
nova nexus
which makes it better overall for raid, but uptime is kinda big on it from what I understand.
delicate osprey
on tank it was like 80%+-
robust lotus
the tier helps with that
delicate osprey
on fury it was also quite high but idk if second leggo is the deal breaker
nova nexus
i’m the end smarter people will figure out what’s going to buff what to squeeze out the most of the specs
delicate osprey
yea good shit the rallyin cry conduit is as broken as ever
so no chances we dont see at least 1 or 2
mellow urchin
Fury gains little value from wft
nova nexus
the old wft sims don’t account for the buffs fury got
delicate osprey
he means maybe they play arms nf/kyr
hoary zephyr
I was referring to arms
nova nexus
it’s actually good for fury, just not arms level
delicate osprey
because of no tier/2leggo early
nova nexus
no they just fall over while trying to charge back in and clip a mechanic
nova nexus
otherwise idk how arms seems to always be top of first deaths in wcl
hoary zephyr
Your PoV
It's Sludgefist, you guys pull, Sludgefist chains and links you to meathead warrior. Sludgefist starts to do aoe ground stomp, you and the warrior move out of it. Suddenly you see the warrior charge to Sludgefist, you see your life (in game) flash before your eyes. You and the Warrior have died and you grey parsed on Sludgefist.
delicate osprey
it is so op
hoary zephyr
and also not using def stance enough
lets remove Feint spam for Elusiveness in PvP but keep DStance and Bear form
nova nexus
i’ve got the rogue and warrior as ready as my little 2 day raider timeline allows for. no idea what I want to play tbh
delicate osprey
well lets be honest loot rng can be quite a bitch for sure
if you get 4p is huge week 2
as you cant on week 1
hoary zephyr
unless you are going for RWF or high rank in HoF, you can play w.e you want
delicate osprey
well it depends if he can play at the same lvl and gets loot fucked on one
after losing shard set no tier is like 2k dps
ripping
nova nexus
hardly. i quit and came back to help a friends guild. we’re at 60% sylvanas
I think we’ll get it. no idea if we are where we need to be
delicate osprey
last phase is a grind and tank/healers need to be on top
dps is just dont be ape
nova nexus
our platform 3 was actually pretty good considering we were missing a healing cd on thursday.
the tanks seem to have a good rhythm going with it. just sorting out some of the movement stuff for everyone
hoary zephyr
#916284169057878037 message @livid ferry
livid ferry
ty
turbid scaffold
Hey guys, I am bit concerned about 9.2 after I watches some twitch content.
Is it normal that we are that far behind ?
+20 otherside
mellow urchin
Frost mage is bugged or something atm
turbid scaffold
Next dungeon was HoA with outlaw instead of sub - same stuff
turbid scaffold
Frost mage is bugged or something atm
Oh okay
mellow urchin
Gregrr might just not play good either
turbid scaffold
Dunno him
mellow urchin
Its hard to just look at a meter and assume its bad
turbid scaffold
Yeah that's right
turbid scaffold
Not the job to top meters in m+
mellow urchin
Yea i mean maybe the dps difference eventually becomes so large there is less value in funnel
turbid scaffold
Well I come from arms warrior - would say sub feels much much better in raid scenarios but AOE with warrior has such a huge difference in damage and easier to execute
I guess this will stay the same through 9.2
winged fiber
subs aoe is pretty easy to execute
just suffers from shitty legendaries
and our tier set is ok in aoe but not crazy
might not even be meta next patch tbh
wind furnace
subs gameplay is complex on lower target counts and single target
our aoe would be more complex if BP wouldnt exist
hoary zephyr
Bro we didn’t even have an AoE before BP
The most “AoE” ability we had was Tornado and Secret Technique
Oh and I guess the first part of DFA which did nothing
But I brought that up just to piss off @wind furnace
coarse quiver
hey sub had aoe in BFA, the one azerite power that spread your nightblade SOMETIMES 
gleaming elbow
hey sub had aoe in BFA, the one azerite power that spread your nightblade SOMETI...
i think it was bugged or something,i never saw any kind of spread 
it was just sometimes refunding full CPs on evis casts
mellow urchin
ye it was bugged
for over a year
it did spread your NBs but it was mostly used to get full cp refunds
for some reason
wind furnace
But I brought that up just to piss off <@194804407706189824>
we also had umbra moonglaives and legendary cape tho 😛
south osprey
Oneshotting raidgroups in legion
I miss the multiboxer dk that i gave a heartattack on argus
wind furnace
@mellow urchin remind me later that i need to double check the pv condition for venthyr durin flag
mellow urchin
sure
rare ether
how are yall like
a secret group chat said sub is getting nerfed
when i literally said i'm doing it
what's the secret
i've been saying it for over a month
fiery radish
🤣
round orbit
the summoning ritual worked
mellow urchin
a secret group chat said sub is getting nerfed
the secret is that its happening this week ofc
so we can mentally prepare
to get nerfed
and drink a lot of calming tea
rare ether
lmao
unkempt peak
Thistle tea
mellow urchin
Thistle tea
+1
rare ether
well regardless of if it is or isn't
i haven't talked to anyone about it so your source is fake news homie
unkempt peak
not this week confirmed, we gottem guys
mellow urchin
cus that person said more things
rare ether
ya idk what to tell u
mellow urchin
we get fed fake news all the time, nothing new or special
buoyant schooner
can't get nerfed if the nerfs never get pushed
unkempt peak
^
rare ether
I still probably will soon just so y'all can get over it faster but
modern whale
i did 18.5k overall in a 15 HoA so sub is def more than fine, warranted a nerf for sure
rare ether
wild that someone knows the day i'm nerfing something before i do
mellow urchin
he/she is in your head
unkempt peak
maybe it is you from the future
unkempt peak
or maybe they know your password is NrfsuB123
unkempt peak
im pretty sure we cant get away from being weird, how hopped up on copium we have been for the past year
mellow urchin
Ha
rare ether
bro u can't just call an entire spec of players weird
this discord is not an entire spec lmao
unkempt peak
worn prawn
Its like what you said a couple of weeks back, sub players are either really understanding and nice, or howling creatures
rare ether
thank you for remembering
mellow urchin
Its like what you said a couple of weeks back, sub players are either really und...
apply this to all humans and its still true
worn prawn
true
modern whale
I'll never forget your "i survived league of legends I'll survive rogues" statement, truly pin-worthy
fiery radish
Its like what you said a couple of weeks back, sub players are either really und...
hey man, don't compare us to the likes of boomkins
wind furnace
so, when the secret 9.2 group chat leak was a lie, does this mean the 10.0 leaks are also not true...
damn i was so hyped to play my corgi subtlety rogue in 10.0
mellow urchin
same
corgi dream dead
jokes aside tho, i dont think anyone truly believes any leaks are true, it was a bit of a yoke to say "reliable sources" cus thats what ITK agents in football twitter use, but might be a bit farfetched i guess.
livid ferry
Just nerf us already 
wind furnace
The problem is that we are now in the time period that has a lot of leaks, this means that even if there are some true ones... its very hard to distinguish them and they might just drown in the flood.
civic terrace
why would anyone stop it from happening
Just dont overdo it 
🙂
livid ferry
lunar fractal
I think it tags it
lunar fractal
and just a reply
test ?
mellow urchin
you can choose to not @ the person
left storm
please no nerfs
civic terrace
left storm
I dont want to play sin
civic terrace
Sylv daggers it is
delicate osprey
i mean it will be interesting
we will live in a microcosmos for like 4 weeks
then everything will get a lot easier
civic terrace
Kinda pog to have bis weapons on launch tbh
livid ferry
Bench pov will be very interesting yes hacha
civic terrace
delicate osprey
yea that is why im in a middle tier guild
civic terrace
Thats not happening
delicate osprey
browsing already i see
caoba or teka seem better
those seem flimsy
but yea just wait until numbers before heralding the end of it all pls
mellow urchin
https://tenor.com/view/baseball-netting-baseball-infield-tarp-bench-chair-gif-17...
just play assassination
and ur fine
the real raid spec
livid ferry
True
mellow urchin
sub is some m+/pvp abomination that happened to be good in SoD
left bramble
I also started with assa… dont want to go back either
autumn jungle
Father, I have a confession to make.. I have committed a great sin
left storm
Yeah I indeed started with assa I am ashamed
rare ether
here is my wisdom. play what u want. who cares.
left storm
Oh I for sure will I am mostly just joking around
I try to not get all worked up over nerfs...In the end I am gonna do what I want
delicate osprey
yes we are free from conventions
autumn jungle
here is my wisdom. play what u want. who cares.
The god is back, any new info? Soon maybe? 🥺
turbid scaffold
Well for my experience in raid, I play orange % logs with sub and get green logs this week with first time assassination, doing overall more damage.
Weird
mellow urchin
This channel is not very serious between builds
rare ether
Pls do not ping me and ask for info
The rogue discord is never going to be a place of announcing anything unique
autumn jungle
Understandable
rare ether
Except in the one case I was writing a post at the time ptr came up to say the same thing but faster
wind furnace
This channel is not very serious between builds
its potentially just due to the time frame between changes, i could moderate it more heavily tho
mellow urchin
No its fine
pliant minnow
firmly in the camp of "dont scare of scari" lol
wind furnace
i mean in general, he is here voluntarily, so anything we get on information is appreciated.
left storm
Oh apologies I didnt mean to make a mockery of the channel..wont happen again.
mellow urchin
The @ers should prob get moderated or told in a pin or something
Common courtesy to not at ppl randomly anyway
wind furnace
to move the discussion to something interessting:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/77TSL4VoxWn8NyRQQxv9TZ/simc
shadowdust seems to sim on par with finality in m+
wind furnace
dungeon slice
wind furnace
ye
akaari is just skyrocketing after the fixes that allowed it to proc pv
makes akaari the best choice for priority damage in low target cleave and pure st
autumn jungle
If you add the new affix in consideration, cdr is prob gonna be even better with dust
pliant minnow
makes akaari the best choice for priority damage in low target cleave and pure s...
single lego still?
wind furnace
double legendary
pliant minnow
kyr/ven?
wind furnace
you wouldn't want to remove your covenant legendary
venthyr hence you won't play kyrian in m+
pliant minnow
sorry thinking kyrian akaari ST in my head lol
modern whale
playing sub in 9.1
playing sub in 9.2 with pv, akaaris, and weaving in hella backstabs
wind furnace
ye lets see about that slightly later
still need to double check if not using bs in dance during flag is beneficial
delicate osprey
it mostly depends if it will cost you a finisher i guess
like using bs at 2 or 3 is diff
wind furnace
it will come down to how reliably you can generate stacks
it will be a gain if the reliability goes down
and probably not change else
nova nexus
wtb new tier set wednesday
wind furnace
we already found that limiting the "during dance" use to when shb is up is beneficial
delicate osprey
yea blades + pv is a big thing
wind furnace
it also needs double checking if the 2p would end up getting nerfed
mellow urchin
Gonna be very busy
delicate osprey
yes it it drops uptime a bit like 10% or so might need a revisit
wind furnace
as it means that hitting it reliably is harder
mellow urchin
Checking pv stacks that can go from 2-6 in 1-2 seconds
delicate osprey
yep that too
nova nexus
@wind furnace think it’s time to revisit 
sims? 
delicate osprey
ahaha
delicate osprey
better alternatives
mellow urchin
Was never actually good was it
delicate osprey
it was end of legion
wind furnace
it was alright, never good enough to the point that it would beat the baseline builds
mellow urchin
Nah you don’t remember perforate memes hacha
wind furnace
still something fun
wind furnace
snake eyes was similar tho
delicate osprey
but was kinda lackluster after a nerf
i do remember balanced blades ahaha
made us live the deadly throw meme all over again
delicate osprey
ahaha
mellow urchin
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9juoTAF6LXsLrgNkdVCczg>
MA comeback? 
turbid scaffold
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9juoTAF6LXsLrgNkdVCczg>
This is convenantless ?
mellow urchin
venthyr
turbid scaffold
wind furnace
its venthyr hence venthyr is significant better in funnel
conduits are not adjusted, so there is def. some room
MA could play well with the affix, but i am unsure if we would take it over finality
also given that PE can set the crit fairly high
mellow urchin
just drop PE
livid ferry
BatChest
mossy carbon
I think it's suggested to always take haste currently
mellow urchin
assuming you ever take the cdr
ye
but it might get rebalanced
its the first iteration of the affix
wind furnace
the affix def. sounds interessting
btw. i came to a realization today
that assassination with nf/dusk is very similar to subtlety with venthyr
both play around a ~1 minute burst phase
delicate osprey
dont worry dust+obed sub is going to have back to back flags almost
with cdr thingy
fuck haste
we gaming
wind furnace
you mean for m+?
mellow urchin
For st
wind furnace
sry, i accidently removed the zdps post
livid ferry
Unironically pretty sure deathspike can be used on a majority of the fights lmao
Off top of my head
Skolex worm man
Is pure ST
mellow urchin
Bad cleave legendary tho
livid ferry
Other 7 have some add bullshit
buoyant gyro
Deathspike is not even good for cleave
livid ferry
Yes push but koji is an assa playwr
mellow urchin
^
buoyant gyro
The range is small and it's buggy
wind furnace
i mean thats nf (from pins) in st
mellow urchin
It’s the sub channel
livid ferry
Delete deathspike and necrolord as well
buoyant gyro
CP gen is buggy, it bugs out resets and they don't work correctly
Deathspike is pretty close to useless in every capacity, zdps in ST and not good in AoE
mellow urchin
i mean thats nf (from pins) in st
Nf with sepsis conduit, shadowdust
1 min sepsis cd
buoyant gyro
Necro may not be amazing for Sub but that's not to say it couldn't be decent with the right legendary or something. I don't see any reason to close off 1/4th of our Covenants for a whole patch cycle
livid ferry
1 min sepsis cd
Bro stop
buoyant gyro
People thought NF was trash and now it's gonna be BiS for Assassination so you never really know
livid ferry
Sepsis will never be good
Unless you are assa
Just stop that ability was a mistake
mellow urchin
Ok dood
livid ferry
Stay in your kyrian/venthyr lane
buoyant gyro
Soulbind interactions are at least as important as the actual Covenant abilities at this point
So you never really know what will end up being strong
clear zephyr
Was leveling NF renown and first boss in mists was kinda fun with sepsis legendary.
buoyant gyro
DK must not realize I don't have a single Assassination parse in 9.1.5 though 😄
livid ferry
Have to take a break from the bad spec once in a while
Only psychopaths like cev can endure assassination gameplay 24/7
livid ferry
No one can then
livid ferry
Ye when the spec was cool
And you didn’t have to go make coffee between gcd’s or else you’d pass out from boredom
mellow urchin
Wdym
It was the same apm in all but 8.3
As it is now
8.0 perhaps a bit more cus of exsang gcb stuff
delicate osprey
tbh you can snipe sepsis in m+ and also play dust for omega cdr
livid ferry
Pogga
delicate osprey
im quite interested in seeing how they balance the relics things
sespsis also does quite a bit with shadowblades
and with conduit most of the damage is first 4 secs or so
plucky storm
The Sepsis sniping hype is so cringe to me
livid ferry
Yes it is very cringe
delicate osprey
sniping in itself is nothing special but when you add in the cdr from relic it seems neat
idk about dust with nf tho
plucky storm
I mean but like why would you
You’re telling me, you walk up to a pack yeah
And you’re like sick okay
I sepsis here because it’s gonna last at least 1:30
Or maybe you don’t even do that
You sit there and you hold that shit
You get to the end of the pack
You’re like okay THIS IS MY MOMENT
And you launch a sepsis onto a mob with 6 seconds left
The cdr kicks in
You get your fat TO proc
You’re about to go crazy
Except everything is dead!
So you roll up to the next pack
Sick, I have a 45 second cooldown left on my sepsis, this is a quick pack
I’m gonna sit here
And hold that shit
Fucking why
plucky storm
Or I guess the more likely play
You walk up to the pack
And you find the weakest, most gangly sickened mother fucker in that whole pack
On the edge of death from birth
wind furnace
the cdr on sepsis def. is fairly low
plucky storm
And you launch your biggest cd
Into That dude
Fuck the sepsis damage
I do not need it
I wish to not use it for damage for un minute
Pathetic cooldown it is
I am too good for it
So that you can get… shadow blades… for 10 seconds?
delicate osprey
let me tell you most packs have low health mobs or bosses have adds ahaha
although nf things are mostly for assa not sub tbh
as sub getting vendetta on aoe is kinda meh
as getting blades for the garrotes etc is big for sub is kinda more energy that we dont really need and some % dmg on one target mehh
plucky storm
I mean on sub sniping with sepsis has even less of a point
You’re not even getting vendetta onto something important
So you’re both losing sepsis damage and vendetta
For 30 seconds of cdr
nova nexus
wind furnace
yes, pls don't ping him.
sleek mortar
Did scari leave the disc?
sleek mortar
who would think that would work, are they dumb?
yo, wanna risk your job for some rando on discord?
"for sure man"
mellow urchin
opportunists
livid ferry
Perhaps they are rich and can offer him more than he earns
hoary zephyr
Ya no way I am pinging him lmao
If it’s really that bad I would just dm him and be super polite but that’s under extreme circumstance which will never happen
Also m+ affix w/ haste buff is changing
Oh wait jk I read it wrong
It’s just an insight on why it’s haste and not highest stat
Rip
robust lotus
should be x or y stat whichever is higher
same as champions brand
champions brand felt decent
mellow urchin
of all classes no
the kindred affinity list
is prob the closest you will get
raw dps column
the numbers are still off for some rogue specs
but decently close
feral schooner
ty push ❤️
robust lotus
also missing venthyr sub entirely
wind furnace
also missing venthyr sub entirely
feral schooner
If we get the bugfixes and then the nerfs we should be in that dps range right shown in the spreadsheet or? @wind furnace
wind furnace
the spreadsheet does not include any nerfs
feral schooner
I know but if we get the nerfs because of the bugfixes to our set any good guess?
wind furnace
we get nerfed because our tier set is way to strong
feral schooner
Main question is can I/we just continue playing sub
wind furnace
its over budget
feral schooner
like right now sub and assa even outlaw are very strong
wind furnace
can i/we continue playing sub... what question is this
feral schooner
Do we have to play outlaw? 😄
wind furnace
they won't delete the spec from the game, so you can always play it
feral schooner
if yes ill just /quit xD
feral schooner
ok
wind furnace
none of us has a direct impact on the balancing team at wow
all we can do is try to make simc as appealing for evaluation as possible
if that leads to reasonable balancing decisions is hard to predict
balancing is just a core aspect to our perception of the game.
If we play a spec that is considered bad, its a lot less fun
a lot of players also feel obligated to chase the numerical best always even if the differences are not insane or relevant at the level of play they are
wind furnace
ptr is subject to changes, people just seemingly forget that
e.g. survival is atm fairly... strong on beta and people start to play it and suggest their rl that they reroll to it
wind furnace
👍
potent vault
mental estuary
Nerf it? Nah, make it drop off every boss in raid. 😀
robust lotus
Also in CN it felt good to get a weapon token
feral schooner
Still EoN bis in offhand
mental estuary
Will it be BiS? 258 vs 298?
potent vault
Yes, but I don't want to use EoN for the next year
main hand exists
potent vault
off hand hasnt mattered for a while
mental estuary
yeah would still be using a 259 in oh over a 285 weapon
Zzz...
Be farming mythic Sylvanas still midway through 9.2. -_-
mellow urchin
yeah would still be using a 259 in oh over a 285 weapon
ppl out here not having 2x 259 daggers
and being mad they cant use their 285 weapon in its place
surely gonna get that 285 weapon on first rygelon kill then, yep
mental estuary
Well, more the chances that can farm mythic Sylvanas for 259 dagger in 9.2 is pretty much zero. Lol.
mellow urchin
yea i mean
unfortunate
but its quite hard to get 2x 285 daggers i think, so no rush
robust lotus
I have one so it's no problem next patch, I wouldn't have to farm but the dagger is definitely way over budget
mental estuary
Right, but I think the point is that it sucks enough having not gotten the BiS weapons when they BiS, being at a permanent disadvantage the entire next tier too feels bad. Even if it's only like 100 DPS.
mellow urchin
perhaps its nerfed
mellow urchin
i dont really expect it, but it can certainly happen right
mental estuary
Anyway, guess I'll just have to get good and pray to rngesus before 9.2.
mellow urchin
its an iconic weapon from Sylvanas herself
nerfing that would be a lil stab
in the back
it sucks for ppl that dont have it, but unless they tune us around having sylv dagger its fine right
robust lotus
Yeah, but what about people who just have no chance of obtaining them
Running sod in 9.2 gonna be a right pain
mellow urchin
they probably dont need them
if you dont have the daggers rn and ur not farming them
you probably wont need them
pale jetty
Imagine not using sac bug
mellow urchin
i mean if anything that is going to get fixed
pale jetty
Gimping yourself
robust lotus
Surprised kihra hasn't invalidated those
pale jetty
If it does it's only like 2.5%
mellow urchin
he invalidates logs when the bug is fixed, not before
robust lotus
mellow urchin
2.5% is mythic dagger
pale jetty
Oh are they invalid now?
pale jetty
It prob wont be until 9.2.5
mellow urchin
thats some hopium
pale jetty
Sub will continue to be a dusty sac abuser
nova nexus
Yeah, but what about people who just have no chance of obtaining them
and you don’t need them for 
pale jetty
LOL
mellow urchin
rough life
pale jetty
Actual punishment
robust lotus
only matters to like 45% of rogues anyway
robust lotus
neat dagger
What exactly is bugged at the sub tier set atm on the ptr? Can someone tell me
autumn jungle
True, I got 226 pox first two weeks of 9.0 when I was playing Outlaw. After that I was never like "Man I am so happy I got pox"
livid ferry
any idea if sub will compete with other single target specs?
i guess its too hard to tell with the set being fiddled with
civic terrace
Ye im not about this whole memorable loot drops take either
pale jetty
Very few drops are memorable
autumn jungle
Even the last boss kills are not that memorable tbh
pale jetty
Edge of Night is an exception that is memorable
Fangs are memorable
Unguent Caress is memorable
Some specific drops are memorable
civic terrace
Its just an item, a tool.. who cares if it sends a message or not..
Maybe im a minority in this but I honestly feel like most people really dont look at drops the way blizzard thinks they do
pale jetty
But it usually is memorable for being broken op
But yeah like getting a random buttfuck nothing weapon isn't gonna be memorable
The tier set or the systems won't be memorable
I'm gonna get my tier set then my excitement will die out in 5 minutes
robust lotus
not getting it is what is remembered
it's what the entire conversation about gear has always been
and always will be
civic terrace
Ye
robust lotus
Like I still not remember getting mythic CoF in NH
pale jetty
Then finally get it and it loses any signifance anyways
civic terrace
Getting dagger was ok.. and then 10 minutes later it was whatever
livid ferry
i only got 1 dagger from vault the entire patch so it was prettty memorable
pliant minnow
Its just an item, a tool.. who cares if it sends a message or not..
Maybe im a ...
we used to though and unfortunately with wow becoming more seasonal, its not so much anymore
civic terrace
I dont think so
mellow urchin
i know i killed nzoth with razor coral equipped at least, by some distance the best trinket
robust lotus
didnt you play CoF for several patches
it got nerfed into the ground in ToS
pale jetty
Yeah razor coral was used by almost every melee lmao
mellow urchin
did everyone who didnt get to kill mythic ashvane complaining
pale jetty
Divers folly was also busted
pliant minnow
BM, damn coral and urchin......
pale jetty
Yup
mellow urchin
some used it on nzoth
pale jetty
We went back and farmed them in bfa
mellow urchin
font of power was ridiculous
civic terrace
Ive played this game for a long ass time and ive never felt revalated to loot anything for more than a few minutes
You really have to wonder if those 2 minutes of dopamine are worth the months and months of misery
mellow urchin
why wouldnt sylvanas be
mellow urchin
there is a skip to sylvanas
can legit clear in 30 mins
with a guild group
every week
just do 3 bosses
pale jetty
Sylv requires coordination and shit, where one dispel mistake wipes you in p3
If people haven't done it before they might struggle
robust lotus
that also requires you to convince your officer team the dps upgrade is worth 19 other peoples time
potent vault
Azhshara wasn’t a pushover
pale jetty
And will have to learn it
robust lotus
on a weekly basis
potent vault
And she dropped an insane item
pale jetty
Also some people don't have the skip
pale jetty
Azshara wasn't really bad to farm in 8.3
autumn jungle
that also requires you to convince your officer team the dps upgrade is worth 19...
Pretty easy to convince when the mount still will drop in 9.2
pale jetty
She died insanely quick
robust lotus
same applies though
autumn jungle
Especially with mount sales
pale jetty
Yeah but that's considering your guild can do it or wants to
robust lotus
civic terrace
Not having skip
mental estuary
Pretty easy to convince when the mount still will drop in 9.2
Maybe maybe not. If it's an easy to wipe boss with 15 minute pulls midway through 9.2 the enthusiasm might not be there. Lol.
pale jetty
Sylv is like 12 mins rn
robust lotus
people DO NOT want to do that fight
pale jetty
I doubt she'll be 15 in 9.2
robust lotus
mental estuary
I doubt she'll be 15 in 9.2
I mean we're gaining tier sets and losing shards, and I think we'll likely be looking at 10 to 12 man's potentially instead of 20 man's.
pale jetty
You won't be able to do sylv
robust lotus
so you take the same amount of time
pale jetty
With 10-12
robust lotus
for no gain
pale jetty
You'll get stunlocked by chains in intermission
And how will you beat the DPS check in p2?
mental estuary
Just need 3-4:boomies, be doable I think. But that's the thing, will be hard.
pale jetty
Boomies won't be ramping like they are now
robust lotus
kyrian gaming
pale jetty
And if they ramp for chains you're fucked in p2
10-12 people, 2 tanks, at least 2 healers, 3 useless boomies cuz no cds
You're now down to 3-5 people who have to do the entire p2 dps?
Yeah not happening even in the imaginary 9.3
You're gonna need 20
Or a fire mage from bfa
mental estuary
You might be right. Idk.
In any case, I hope Sylv daggers aren't BiS in 9.2
I think it'd be cool if they were slightly better than M+ daggers and very slightly worse than the 285 dags. That's the sweet spot imo to being a cool reward to those with the daggers and not being unfair to those without em.
But I guess ultimately not a big deal.
pale jetty
I doubt they'll do anything about it
They generally don't
People don't need the daggers
If you don't get them, you'll be behind
If you care about parses, this is not the expansion to care
Externals have been so abusive this expansion for parsing
It's not even worth trying to go for 100 parses without KA
And if you're someone going for parses chances are you have daggers
So regardless, they don't actually mean shit
mental estuary
Yeah, I guess that's true. Already kinda tier yourself w/o externals. And already kind of have to tier yourself as with Sylv Daggers or not.
Just a sore point. I'm sure I've been lucky in other places, like I got shard set super early in 9.1.
pale jetty
You can still likely clear the tier early with meh dps