9.2 Feedback and Discussion | Ravenholdt | Page 10

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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Yeah

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So probably one month

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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9.2 has 10 bosses, so the raid should be better

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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11

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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Kek

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:46 PM

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9.1 raid has 10 bosses

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:46 PM

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Sanctum legit 2 bosses and an RNG fuckfest of who stands in their spot on fate

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:46 PM

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*11

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:46 PM

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I really hope there's no fatescribe like boss next tier

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But I really want an early wall like painsmith

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Painsmith was fun

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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Sylvanas > painsmith > nerzhul in terms of difficulty for us

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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Really?

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Nerzhul?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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Ye

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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just wait, the last 3 will have a ultimate version of fatescripe

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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For us it was soulrender

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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We did him week 1

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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We killed nerzhul in like 4 attempts somehow

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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In like 236 gear

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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I think we mega lucked out

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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Was a gear check

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:47 PM

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Ooh okay

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We were in mid 240s

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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Nah the fight quickly became easy with gear

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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Yeah

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Makes sense

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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Both soulrender and nerzhul were gear checks

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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We started soulrender before nerzhul

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And it was aids

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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And depending on which you went first, the other became a meme

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:48 PM

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Yup

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:49 PM

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Ye soulrender was way easier for us

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Than most guilds

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:49 PM

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I guess so then

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Because when we got to nerzhul and he just flopped

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We were kinda surprised

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:49 PM

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He had some dps checks

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Actually

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When we did it

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Wanted to beat certain timers to avoid ball spawns

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:50 PM

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For us we held dps before the 30 shatter so def weren't worried about checks

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But again

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Way too much gear

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:50 PM

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Nothing else this raid was even remotely difficult tho

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:50 PM

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We progressed like a month or two later

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KT was a disappointment

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That boss...

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:50 PM

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Oh well, then it’s also dom sets

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:51 PM

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Yeah but that kinda is inevitable

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:51 PM

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I was like topping nerzhul dmg for us and did 7500 dps

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:51 PM

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It's part of the tier

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Oh damn

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Yeah

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The dps shot way up

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:51 PM

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Cus nobody had dom sets week 1

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:51 PM

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Like when I did it I was at maybe 10-11k?

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Think I was in rank 5 too

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Or rank 4

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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But kt and fate was like

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20-30 pull bosses

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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yea i did like 6.8 k or something on nerz week 1

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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Fate was just literally lucking out on player assignments for us

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And KT was so sad

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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We had maybe 50-60 on nerzhul

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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We had like 100 on soulrender

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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oof

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:52 PM

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Yeah

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But also

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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Soulrender was sub 20 for us iirc

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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We lost our DKs mid prog on soulrender

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So...

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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we did soulrender week 3

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it was way easier

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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Week 3 we were on Sylvanas iirc

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kekg

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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i think the current tier was under tuned tbh

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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Shit tier

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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we were on paismith for a while kek

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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Yeah it was like

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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Way too easy

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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You know what

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:53 PM

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100 pulls on a 2 day guild is oof

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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At least it's harder than EN

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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Ye

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True

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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en was criminal

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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but i think the domination set changes had a big impact on that

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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I don't think they can beat EN lmao

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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wind furnace but i think the domination set changes had a big impact on that

I think their main issue was making it race to world first able and also having that system

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Just didn't work

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:54 PM

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Lots of bad guilds got ranks in this tier cus they bruteforced it by overtiming

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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Dude

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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yea that is true

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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There are legit people

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In 255 gear

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Over 10 kills on sylv

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Parsing 30s on early bosses on farm

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In that gear

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Like the whole guild

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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Oof

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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that always happened tho

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:55 PM

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Yes but

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Usually those people barely get the tier done

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These people have had it on farm

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:56 PM

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I mean there were guilds (no names) that raided 9 days in a row to get horde famed

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:56 PM

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So many people who don't know what they're doing

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Yeah that's true too

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Just smashing their face into bosses

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Because that's what this tier was

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:56 PM

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0 dps checks

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During prog

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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Sylv was the only check but her dps check stopped existing like 4-5 weeks in

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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After they buffed dom sets

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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Think thats large dom sets making everything irrelevant

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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It is

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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Even when we progged sylv, it was a don’t die check

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:57 PM

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Adding 1k+ dps to everyone in the raid

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Like that's insane

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Next tier will def be better

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:58 PM

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copium

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:58 PM

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Can already tell

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Man idk just look at the raid

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Doesn't give me depression

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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As long as they tune the raid based on 2 legendaries

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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Sanctum is so gloomy I actually hate it

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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I am ok

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But I fear they might tune it for 1 legendary

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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No way they do

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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And then all of us that will have 2 legendaries

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Will shit on it

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:59 PM

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I'm really really really hoping they tune it porperly

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Making double Lego locked behind a long grind might make them tune it to one Lego just for world first though

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:00 PM

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Maybe they are changing to a more casual approach to mythic tuning

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:00 PM

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Why

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That's literally what happened to hc

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:00 PM

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To appeal to baddies

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:00 PM

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And why mythic exists

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:00 PM

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sylvanas is not a easy fight

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same with painsmith

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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They are not very difficult either

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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I mean she's not "easy" but

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Compare her to denathrius

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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If you look at the history of raid bosses

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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Denathrius was infinitely harder imo

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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Denny was easier

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Lmao

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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Really?

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Than sylv?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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We had 70 wipes on denny

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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Jfc what

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:01 PM

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120 on sylv

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:02 PM

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Mechanics wise I feel like he was way harder

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:02 PM

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And like 300 on mythic kj

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Shits becoming easier

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250 on mythic Argus

nova nexus Jan 15, 2022, 5:02 PM

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yes, especially for lower ranked guilds. the elongated p1 & p2 of slyv can devour nights of prog and the will to actually push to o3.

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:02 PM

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Maybe that's just me idk

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:02 PM

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What’s hard about denny

nova nexus Jan 15, 2022, 5:03 PM

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not lagging out

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:03 PM

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Don’t stand in red is 80% of the fight

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:03 PM

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P1

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I press strike

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He does the cleanse

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My PC goes goodbye

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Nah but I guess p3

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If wasn't a hard fight

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But getting people to do the soaks correctly

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And the overlap

nova nexus Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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SLG was technically harder wipe count wise no?

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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The knockback overlap shit

nova nexus Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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can’t remember.

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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SLG was harder dps brain can't hold

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Also SLG was bugged

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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P3 was just run to the right with the soak seeds, every single time

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:04 PM

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And probably still is

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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And most specs could cheese the knockback overlap, only rogue couldn’t

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And druids

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But our druids got bop

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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Yeah as I said, wasn't hard, but harder than sylv imo

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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slg was draven being a XXY chromosome

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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And I had to soulshape the knockback

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Ptsd

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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At least for me it was

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:05 PM

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i did the run into the red

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but at first i had to step a dk

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he killed me many times

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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Ye I also stepped a dk

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But he killed me

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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yea he had 3 strikes

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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I lost faith

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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then i stopped trusting

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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Fucking dks

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:06 PM

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Bring back BFA bosses sadge

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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i think legion had rly good raids

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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Yeah except for one tier

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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first tier was strictly undertuned

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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Tomb of soakgeras

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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Feint tier was cracked

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Avatar was an expac end boss

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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i didn't hate tomb

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:07 PM

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Rogues with daggers were poached a lot

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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Tomb alone had harder bosses than both 9.0 and 9.1 combined

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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yep

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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hoary zephyr Rogues with daggers were poached a lot

Yeah well they were literally mega busted

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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i rly liked legion boss design

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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Mistress harder than any shadowlands bosses

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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Y

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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Especially if you couldn't see beams

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Which I couldn't

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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And not even an endboss

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:08 PM

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pepeLaughing

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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Sisters of the moon

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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i don't think bfa/sl is on the same level, there are some good fights but overall... it seems quite a step back

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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Even maiden was hard for some ppl

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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I mean

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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And then fallen avatar was just another level

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And kj too

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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Azshara and Jaina were both infinitely harder than any SL boss

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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pale jetty Yeah well they were literally mega busted

I am aware, I was one of the rogues that was poached KEKW

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:09 PM

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And they weren't even that hard

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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hoary zephyr I am aware, I was one of the rogues that was poached <:KEKW:834726120606924850>

Lolol

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Also fucking EU people

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Did you exploit lockouts

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Difficulty this expansion is definitely on the more casual level

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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I finally caught up

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Or full 8 weeks

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Nah I didn’t exploit the lockout

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Damn

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Actually ethical

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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I know several guilds were banned from the LFR shit

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:10 PM

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Yeeee

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DS was a shitshow

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:11 PM

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Ya

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The boss where you had to pickpocket was good tho

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Because smokebomb had big value

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:12 PM

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The portal thing yeah

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But jfc man

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Most of the bosses were just yikes

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And then you get to spine

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:12 PM

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She would target some missile or some shit

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And you would bomb

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And no one took dmg

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Because it was los

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:12 PM

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Rogue utility

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If only

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:13 PM

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Funny because that is something I figured out accidentally

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:13 PM

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At least give us swiftblades cunning back

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Give us something

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Please blizz 🥲

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:13 PM

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mellow urchin Difficulty this expansion is definitely on the more casual level

unsure tbh

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first raid is always tuned slightly weaker

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:13 PM

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The Dom shards hard carry

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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CN was harder than this tier

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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and 2nd raid was that "easy" because domination did 📈 dps a lot

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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Ngl

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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CN was not easy by any means skidgrfist onwards

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Sludgefist

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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But ya

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Pretty sure they tuned the bosses without dom shards

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KEKW

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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No they tuned them with pre buff shards

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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Sludge and me are best friends

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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Not post buff

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:14 PM

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I'm tagged to a war? Bye bye sir

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I proc cheat

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And you die

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Shards are way too op anyways

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What are they, like 15% dps upgrades?

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 5:16 PM

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Yeah around there

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:18 PM

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most brutal first raid was cata

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because it was split in 3

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:18 PM

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It was 4 no?

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:18 PM

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it was kinda cool but many oof bosses and then you had ascendants

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:19 PM

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If you count the tol barad one

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:19 PM

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nah it was throne of air twilight and lastly nefarian

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tol barad was not a progress place you entered and 1 tapped the boss

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it was like the wotlk one

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:19 PM

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Yeah vault

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:19 PM

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just a tier/pvp set dummy dropper

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:19 PM

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Ye

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:20 PM

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tbh i kinda miss those kind of pvp places

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:20 PM

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I count it anyways ig but yeah it's not really a tier

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 5:20 PM

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there was always someone

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to kill

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:20 PM

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They were nice lol

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Always went there when I was bored

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I miss actual fleshed out zones

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:22 PM

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MoP starting raids weren’t bad

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They were 3 but they were progressed

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:22 PM

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Still annoyed that vashjir absolutely shits on nazj

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And that nyalotha was a skybox

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:22 PM

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Mogushan Vaults

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Heart of Fear

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And Terrace

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:23 PM

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Ye those were food raids

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Good*

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Playing through them again rn

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:23 PM

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Also terrace having a hardmode for first boss

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:26 PM

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It's okay, next tier is gonna be huge

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Finally, we get to fight the REAL big bad of Warcraft

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:26 PM

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Ya bro

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:27 PM

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Knew it was him all along

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Until 10.0 ofc

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:27 PM

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Cant believe he was involved with the conflicts of the games I played when I was a child

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Damn

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Who would have thought

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:27 PM

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Bro he purposefully made sure voljin died a starter zone quilboar death so sylv can be warchief

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He planned everything

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But ofc he let her live to tell us everything we need to know to stop him

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 5:28 PM

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Nah he made sure Garrosh died so Voljin can be the leader

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 5:28 PM

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Only way they save this is by making us nzoth puppets

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Literally no other way

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But that's such hard copium

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I'm kidding the story is actually genius

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After SL we wake up in the tillers market

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Turns out we overdosed on some dank panda shit

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And have been tripping out ever since

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 5:51 PM

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delicate osprey tbh i kinda miss those kind of pvp places

Same

It also gave people a reason to try and win the pvp battle

buoyant schooner Jan 16, 2022, 3:28 AM

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Think this might be the reason crafted obedience doesn't work on ptr sims and whatnot

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it's the wrong leggo entirely

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 3:31 AM

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Blizzard messed up the bonus ID

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It’s been reported

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Unity version likely works though

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 3:32 AM

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It shows the right bonus at least

plucky storm Jan 16, 2022, 3:32 AM

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buoyant gyro Unity version likely works though

doesn't sim properly either from what I saw

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 3:34 AM

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Well I don’t think Unity works at all in general for sims yet

livid ferry Jan 16, 2022, 3:34 AM

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it does not

buoyant schooner Jan 16, 2022, 3:34 AM

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It works on the ptr though

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just tested it

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 3:35 AM

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Sims reference legendaries by name so Unity requires a little more magic than in-game

plucky storm Jan 16, 2022, 3:35 AM

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yeh

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it works on ptr

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but there is no way to sim obedience

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is what I mean

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 3:36 AM

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Not a whole lot I can do about it either without it being a super ugly hack due to which part of it has gone wrong.

plucky storm Jan 16, 2022, 3:36 AM

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yeah I mean we just wait

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not like any ptr sims need urgent fixing

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:07 AM

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simc:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uEok7mHzUkU28r8Y7J5WQT

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:07 AM

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what changes are those?

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:09 AM

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koji did change it so that akaari works with pv/wm

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like it does currently on ptr

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and the .7% win is to use backstab during dance if you have high charges

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:13 AM

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well well we go into de deep eeend

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i feel sorry for the new people wanting to learn sub this tier

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not the friendliest place

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with all the procs bonanza

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:13 AM

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also, it was probably expected but

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:13 AM

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kekw

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:14 AM

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premed ded probably

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:14 AM

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wellp it lasted quite a while at least for m+ but now it's buried

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:15 AM

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running slice just now

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dZkG9rN3C6z9tUzrxyqGKK

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without pv optimizations because they would be a loss by default on aoe, so need more checking

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:22 AM

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yea seems like we may run aakari for m+ too interesting to see kyrian so up tho

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:23 AM

#

giveme a sec ill sim venthyr too so we can compare output

#

also probably should switch to m+ talents

#

kyrian: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rmYXnmSRmu2UbM6kFfWDr9

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 9:33 AM

#

no obedience sim?

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:35 AM

#

oh correct, obedience is still broken (removed the sim)

#

so lets wait for it to be fixed before comparing

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:43 AM

#

yea obed is still ripped but at least now with core thingies we can work a bit

#

as kyrian for st will be the focus for a while for us to look into XD

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

the PV/WM interaction boosts akaari by quite a lot tbh

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

yep well after the tier balance pass we can see if they also cut on some of that proc bonanza

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

about 1.5% dps gain

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:48 AM

#

with more gear to get a stronger base aakari might end up at 6%

#

or depending on the trinket from the jailer i wonder if it gives cool shit

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 9:53 AM

#

akaari is about 6% with PV change

#

before the pv/wm change it was around 4.5%

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 9:57 AM

#

ye

ruby pulsar Jan 16, 2022, 10:11 AM

#

Wont korian be harder to play next tier cuz of all the bonus cp generation, you will most Likely never be low on cp.

delicate osprey Jan 16, 2022, 10:15 AM

#

we already talked about this yea with all the interactions rotation will become messier yes

#

even more if we find bs in dance is a thing

#

seems about a 0,7% with current numbers but could be more i would just wait until tier balancing and after we see raid trinkets well and stats on tier set

crimson dawn Jan 16, 2022, 10:22 AM

#

So the changes I made yesterday to simc where right. Happy me

sleek mortar Jan 16, 2022, 10:35 AM

#

wind furnace kyrian: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rmYXnmSRmu2UbM6kFfWDr9>

What ilvl is this at?

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 10:36 AM

#

its the profile i use in #subtlety-faq from the sims with tier set pieces switched in

sleek mortar Jan 16, 2022, 10:37 AM

#

oh pog

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 10:37 AM

#

i forgot to remove one gem tho, so its with bek

feral schooner Jan 16, 2022, 11:56 AM

#

@wind furnace is the tier set on the ptr now fixed for sub? Did they implement all the new technologies like they said here in chat and the blue post?

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 AM

#

not entirely yet

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 12:00 PM

#

only pv has been changed

feral schooner Jan 16, 2022, 12:04 PM

#

Ok so not much has changed I guess. Ty for the information. I hope they will bring the fix live next week

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 12:32 PM

#

i forgot to dissable one shard

#

thats why its 15k

#

would be below 15k else

#

but the profile is also not optimized for no domination and the tier set

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:22 PM

#

Does echoeing reprimand + resounding clarity, interact with the 4p?

as in, 7cp is 28% for 2nd shadow strike

I tested it a week ago and it didn't seem that way.

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:23 PM

#

soft stratus Does echoeing reprimand + resounding clarity, interact with the 4p? as in, 7cp ...

yes

#

well

#

its a bug

#

that it doesnt

#

but its getting fixed

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:23 PM

#

Wouldn't that make kyrian bis?

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:23 PM

#

yes

#

it would

#

and atm

#

it is

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:23 PM

#

By the time you spend all 4 animacharged points youll have another echoeing reprimand

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:24 PM

#

kyrian is bis atm on live too

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:24 PM

#

Live ptr or live retail?

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:24 PM

#

live retail

#

if we're talking raid

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

Oh, i didnt know that im only doing m+

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

venthyr is better in m+

#

so thats fair

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

Well that would be cool to spam 7cp finishers all the time next patch

#

Super funnel class

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

one of the bigger impact factors for kyrian to be good is the sylvanas dagger

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

spec*

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

flag is better funnel

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:27 PM

#

Well I guess i will wait for the echoeing reprimand fix, i really wanna test the output number wise

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:27 PM

#

how do you propose you hit 2-3-4 in aoe

#

of the anima cps

#

thats the main issue

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:27 PM

#

Shuriken toss meta

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

kekg

#

better off just not consuming the cp at all

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

The question for m+ is how much time you spend on bosses/lower target counts then i assume

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

if ur gonna toss it

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

I guess its gonna be an issue with shadow strike and increased shadow blades uptime

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:29 PM

#

i mean in aoe

#

that doesnt matter

#

ur getting 6 cps every time

#

on live as well

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:29 PM

#

I mean, i get brought to keys for mainly funneling, when I aoe I dont contribute as much as frost/ww

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

yes but ur still using shuriken storm!?

#

or are you shadowstriking

#

in aoe

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

I shurikenstorm i have no other choice

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

yes?

#

so thats 6 cp

#

everytime

#

doesnt matter if you funnel or aoe

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

Yeah but you describe an issue that occurs only if i echoeing reprimand

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:31 PM

#

arent we talking about echoing reprimand

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:31 PM

#

If its useless in aoe, i wont use it in aoe

#

Isnt that what ur getting at?

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:31 PM

#

well you said its insane funnel

#

cus you can get 7 cp finishers

#

and i ask, how do you plan to get those 7 cps

#

when they are on 2-3-4-5 cps

#

and you get 6 everytime you storm

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:32 PM

#

Storm very precisely? ASwotasuffer

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:32 PM

#

kekg

#

yep

#

i mean you can shadowstrike once

#

and finish

#

thats 1 cp

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:32 PM

#

Backstab in the front

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:32 PM

#

monkaS

#

but ye kyrian has some issues in m+

#

cus of how it works

#

obedience flag is just juice

#

with no downside

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

Hmmmm well ill think of a solution

#

But theoretically speaking, if i can manage to use reprimand in aoe, it wins flag

#

Speaking funnel

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

flag is the only spell that converts well into aoe/cleave

buoyant schooner Jan 16, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

Not really, with how much extra CP you get in aoe flag gets a lot stronger than it is in st

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

you overestimate how much dmg a 7 cp finisher is

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

Okay, i lose

#

U win

#

I hate venthyr

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:36 PM

#

try kyrian in m+

#

and tell us what you think of it

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:36 PM

#

I trust u, im not denying what u say

#

Im just copium

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:36 PM

#

well you should just

#

test it

#

cus you say you hate venthyr

#

you will prob hate kyrian more

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:37 PM

#

Ik its annoying to target specific cps

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:37 PM

#

the only benefit of kyrian in m+ is that the CD of ER gets drastically reduced

#

and that the ability has a very nice animation

#

so it feels strong

#

even tho it isnt

#

kekg

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:38 PM

#

What about other covs?

#

None of them got super buffed in ptr?

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:39 PM

#

no

#

sepsis is trash

#

necrolord is awkward/bad for sub

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:39 PM

#

Was about to say, idfk what nf even does

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:39 PM

#

st spell

#

that does no dmg

#

very cool

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:39 PM

#

Blue stab

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:40 PM

#

ye idk why its so trash

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:41 PM

#

At least the tier sets looks fun

#

Shadowstrike can proc from weaponmaster, akari, and tier set? can they trigger eachother?

#

Like does akari react to weaponmaster and tierset?

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:42 PM

#

wdym

#

"react to"

#

wtf does that mean

#

in this context

#

is it a living being

#

nah its not

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:43 PM

#

Okay if ur gonna bitch about my way of writing i guess we can stop talking lmao

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:43 PM

#

kekg

#

calm down

#

just teasing

#

everyhting you need to know is in the pins

#

tbh

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:43 PM

#

Idk i cant sense emotion through chat

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:43 PM

#

have said this so many times

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:44 PM

#

Ill find it out myself

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:45 PM

#

4p = can give blades from the 2p, can proc akaari dmg, can weaponmaster, gives PV

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:45 PM

#

Or i can read this

#

Thanks

mellow urchin Jan 16, 2022, 2:45 PM

#

the problem is

#

it doesnt work like this on ptr atm

#

cus its bugged/missing spell data

#

so TEHCNICALLY it doesnt work like that atm, but it should/hopefully be fixed next build

soft stratus Jan 16, 2022, 2:46 PM

#

I see

#

well thanks for the useful info, cheers

robust lotus Jan 16, 2022, 5:19 PM

#

Current provlem is that it could proc off itself forever

#

Which is not what they want

#

pepeLaughing

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 5:45 PM

#

hopefully don’t get the FDK tier treatment where they can’t make it work and just stick a stat buff on it.

wind furnace Jan 16, 2022, 5:45 PM

#

i don't think so

#

worse case there is just once interaction that does not work

#

don't see that there is a big incentive to change how the set works

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 6:10 PM

#

while I’m sure the FDKs were not thrilled with the news, it’s nice to see the reasoning explained.

feral schooner Jan 16, 2022, 10:32 PM

#

Looking at the loot sheet looks like slyvanas mythic dagger is still BiS

#

Or not?

tepid prawn Jan 16, 2022, 10:38 PM

#

In 9.2 or?

#

I highly doubt we'll be using EoN in 9.2, they will disable the effect or do something else.

robust lotus Jan 16, 2022, 11:02 PM

#

It's currently bis without changes

#

in off hand

#

I hope they add a cool weapon for every class tbh

#

like healers and 2h str have one currently

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:51 PM

#

tepid prawn I highly doubt we'll be using EoN in 9.2, they will disable the effect or do som...

Feel like everytime they outright disable an effect like that it does injustice to the content in question

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:54 PM

#

Semi-Legendary daggers used by Sylv in every cutscene for the last 6 years. Drops for someone after 28 weeks of farm. Disabled 3 weeks later. Feels good. 😄

#

(I still have never seen one actually drop in raid though. lol)

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:55 PM

#

at this point fuck that dagger

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:55 PM

#

Honestly not too fussed if we keep using it as OH for quite a while if it were my personal opinion. Not like we give two shits about OH drops anyway.

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:55 PM

#

Yeah its just.. ugh

I see why, it would really suck if you had to farm mythic sylvanas just for 1 bis item. But like.. maybe they should just find a way to make that more accessible or something idk. Or give people more good reason to do older content

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:56 PM

#

Was talking with Fuu about this the other day like

#

Even for statted daggers

#

13 ilevels is only like 0.4% dps

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:56 PM

#

no one wants to do old content for new tier so just kill that thought.

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:56 PM

#

You're thinking that because that is the current standard

#

If that wouldn't be the standard that notion wouldnt be the same

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:56 PM

#

no. we did it with old tier sets

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

You could be wearing a dagger from CN right now in your OH if you didn’t have the Sylv dagger and be dropping less than 1% damage

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

and it was fucking trash

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

OH just is the least interesting slot in the whole game atm

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

I think thats a pretty narrowly minded take tbh

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:57 PM

#

how long has this tier been going? answer way too long.

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

I dont see what that has to do with anything

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

I mean people used Font and Coral all of Nyalotha it’s not like this is a shocking concept.

nova nexus Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

have fun farming it way past its expiration

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

buoyant gyro You could be wearing a dagger from CN right now in your OH if you didn’t have th...

Ye exactly

buoyant gyro Jan 16, 2022, 11:58 PM

#

Like there’s no way we’d ever need more than 1. It won’t be competitive for MH.

#

If it’s better it will be by such a small amount it’s not really worth stressing about though.

civic terrace Jan 16, 2022, 11:59 PM

#

Again, you're just thinking in the sense that you'd only be doing this old content for that dagger. Im saying that blizzard should just find more reasons for people to go back. So that more people do. Then it wouldn't be such a hassle to find a raid to go back there

#

And when you're in heroic sepulcher gear and mythic sylvanas has been out for over a year you can just pug it

#

Maybe nerf it yet a bit more

#

Et voila

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 12:00 AM

#

I see both sides of the argument but like. I’d rather not have to deal with getting dumpstered on week 1/2 and then have to wait weeks to get a new dagger drop since I now have two secondary statless daggers in my inventory that don’t do anything

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 12:01 AM

#

I’m curious if the 3.0 speed dagger is intentional.

civic terrace Jan 17, 2022, 12:01 AM

#

I did away with all my stat daggers yikes

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 12:06 AM

#

Since daggers just don’t drop at all I’m kinda happy to keep one I already have tbh 😛

#

If it weren’t for GV I’d have only seen 1 dagger drop from Remnant as my only Mythic weapon since week 1 👌

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 12:08 AM

#

tier sets and daggers for rogue one. may the odds be ever in your favor.

civic terrace Jan 17, 2022, 12:11 AM

#

The problem with agility daggers is just that we are the only people looting them

Its kind of a stupid problem to have that is entirely caused by the silly looting system we have to deal with these days

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 12:58 AM

#

@wind furnace nice write up dude

feral schooner Jan 17, 2022, 5:21 AM

#

tepid prawn I highly doubt we'll be using EoN in 9.2, they will disable the effect or do som...

I hope so kinda broken and would balance sub automatically

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 6:44 AM

#

unkempt peak <@194804407706189824> nice write up dude

thanks

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 6:47 AM

#

buoyant gyro If it weren’t for GV I’d have only seen 1 dagger drop from Remnant as my only My...

i have 3 or 4 mythic daggers, all from remnant 😛

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:04 AM

#

wind furnace i have 3 or 4 mythic daggers, all from remnant 😛

have you tried to get any sylv daggers

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:06 AM

#

our guild stopped doing heroic runs, so not rly trying.

#

but probably worth to farm heroic for it if it continues to be this powerful in 9.2

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:10 AM

#

kinda running out of time

#

its very easy to pug sylvanas these days

#

prob dont need ur guild for it

hoary zephyr Jan 17, 2022, 8:46 AM

#

wind furnace but probably worth to farm heroic for it if it continues to be this powerful in ...

I would help funnel but... I am on NA unfortunate

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:51 AM

#

i don't mind not having it. Its not required at my level of play

feral schooner Jan 17, 2022, 11:10 AM

#

wind furnace i don't mind not having it. Its not required at my level of play

Happy to help u funnel the hc Version

#

I got now 3 slyvanas mythic kills and 3 9er chest no dagger yet. I hope to get atleast one before the patch

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 11:21 AM

#

there is still no date for the patch, but i think its usual that they don't give a date very far in advanced

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 11:24 AM

#

towellie said he has been told its gonna release between 22nd feb - 8th march

#

and he usually know stuff

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 11:25 AM

#

seems like the expected time frame then

civic terrace Jan 17, 2022, 11:39 AM

#

feral schooner Happy to help u funnel the hc Version

That sounds fun, 30 rogues sylvanas kill? feelswowman

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 4:24 PM

#

id hope closer to march, balancing is still pretty far off a solid mark

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 5:10 PM

#

mellow urchin towellie said he has been told its gonna release between 22nd feb - 8th march

Late February/early March has seemed like the reasonable timeline for a while yeah

#

I was predicting early March back in October 😄

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 5:17 PM

#

March 1 for my birthday. EZ

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:09 PM

#

some people are insane if they think we are getting a new expansion this year

#

that youtuber WillE thinks it will be Q4 this year to avoid launching at the same time as WotLK classic

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:10 PM

#

i did hear it a few times now tbh

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:11 PM

#

Ppl thought they were insane for releasing sl when they did

#

But in the end, money men decide when things are released

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

#

like im not saying its impossible, but id be very concerned for the state of that expansion, maybe prepatch in Q4?

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

#

And if they are told to release on a certain date, thats what they will do

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

#

if its a longer prepatch than usual

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

#

Well if you remember sl launch

#

Rumours from within blizzard that SL wasnt even close to finished

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

#

Ye doesn’t really matter what you think would happen or may happen, if the money ppl say release product

#

They will release

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:13 PM

#

@mellow urchin so true, I remember playing the beta, seeing that SL was delayed by 2 weeks

#

and thinking that was not nearly enough

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:13 PM

#

And blizzard currently has nothing in the pipeline for 2022

#

The money men will want something

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:13 PM

#

Next xpac will probably be presented sometime in march

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:13 PM

#

im sure that will go nothing but well XD

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:13 PM

#

Was meant to be D4 and ow2 year, which would have given wow some leeway

#

But since both were postponed

#

Its only wow left

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:14 PM

#

pepojam

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:14 PM

#

wow is the work horse that is already dead but still plowing the field

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:15 PM

#

Wow is far from dead

#

Lol

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:15 PM

#

But ye it could release in 2023 too, i just think it might hurt their quarterly/ yearly earnings and put bloat in 2023 instead

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:15 PM

#

@livid ferry not saying the game is dead just staff and player morale

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:15 PM

#

You hear stuff from 20 ppl

#

At best

#

Blizzard has like

#

Thousands of employees

#

Our main man scarizard is superhyped about his work at blizz

#

So its not all doom and gloom

tepid prawn Jan 17, 2022, 8:16 PM

#

Millions of players playing and paying for the game

#

must be dead.

#

:/

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:17 PM

#

mellow urchin Ppl thought they were insane for releasing sl when they did

and like with a lot of things, there was some truth in that

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:17 PM

#

9.0 was a fine patch what

#

Good even

#

It just lasted an eternity

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:18 PM

#

content cycles are super long in sl, so ye

#

its to a point where people question the subscription model

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:18 PM

#

i mean id agree with those people, getting 1 major content patch in a year is far from acceptable

#

not to say i dont sympathize with everything that has been going on at blizz, but i understand why people wouldnt be happy with that

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:20 PM

#

The point was that even if logical ppl can see that its not a finished product and should be delayed

#

In the end its management that decides

#

Not devs

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:20 PM

#

Ye

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:20 PM

#

Its how most games these days just flop

#

Shipped way too early

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:20 PM

#

Cries in cyberpunk

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:20 PM

#

Ion hazzakostas doesn’t decide when patch goes live

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:21 PM

#

which is a shame, because obviously a lot of the devs care alot about wow

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:21 PM

#

I'm still mad they removed Master Baiter from pandaria

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:21 PM

#

Money has to be made in certain periods, thats just the nature of a public company

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:21 PM

#

pale jetty I'm still mad they removed Master Baiter from pandaria

SMH

#

I didn’t even know he existed man

#

And I got a chuckle out of it when I saw

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:21 PM

#

wow is a game that sells one copy for ~160€/year

#

and delivers atm a bit more than 1 content patch in that cycle

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:22 PM

#

"content"

#

Kek

#

Recycling legion with minimal added rewards

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:22 PM

#

if we talk about costs, a lot of games have longer dev cycles and have lower costs in aquisition

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:23 PM

#

WoW would prob benefit a lot from going f2p and just having the store loaded with way more mtx cosmetics

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:23 PM

#

so wow is actually a rly expensive game

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:23 PM

#

Ala the cosmic whatever mog that they came out with recently

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:23 PM

#

i mean, if you argue with game hours, wow is a very good value product

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

Yeah but you have to argue in terms of why those hours exist

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

there is a lot of farm/grind/repetition that is done and if you get with a metric like money/game hour you probably are quite good

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

Or going f2p and having one of those 15$/month uber subs that give you super good shit

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

I prefer a sub

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

but this is comparing a online game to a single player game

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:24 PM

#

Why Push

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:25 PM

#

If you cant afford 12 dollars a month, tough luck, play swtor

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:25 PM

#

It's not about affording it

#

It's about wtf does the sub do

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:25 PM

#

i don't mind a subscription btw. I just point out that the budget blizz has for the game is rather high given the cost of the product

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:25 PM

#

Because in a f2p game, a majority of that money will go to mtx to keep the mill going, not into actual game design

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

you also would need to distribute it diffrently to be accurate

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

Is the sub money going to actual game design now?

#

They still make mtx stuff

#

And the game still has slow patch cycle

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

given that the later patches have a lot less content it should be seen as a dlc and a bigger part of the costs can be allocated to the original game

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

Low effort balancing

#

Low effort class design

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

Well if you compare it to say dota, that basically only releases mtx

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:26 PM

#

Low effort systems

#

Ye and dota gets patches in the same time periods

#

dead

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

Its also a far less

#

Complex game

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

Ye sure

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

With 1 static map

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

this means wow is a 2 year release game with a cost of around 200-280$ and a dlc for abour 40-120$

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

And some hero changes

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

And they prob also have far less ppl working on the game

#

Than wow does

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

i mean you cant compare an mmo to a moba

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:27 PM

#

Were comparing models

#

And the development

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

but not everyone that works on wow is a dev

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

Well there is no good f2p mmo

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

Not the games

#

Bdo is f2p

#

Buy once

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

Never played bdo

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

With an optional sub that has super convenience stuff

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

And afaik its p2w

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

Which is essentially mandatory but you can buy with normal currency

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

I think a subscription model is justified if the game is updated frequently

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM

#

Well yes its a Kr mmo

#

It will have p2w elements

#

But in bdo to p2w you need to put like

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

the entire discussion comes up/came up because wow is now very seasonal with long content cycles

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

A house into it

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

You think wow would survive going f2p with p2w elements?

unkempt peak Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

i mean if you are paying a monthly fee you would expect frequent ish updates

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

poe can survive without p2w elements

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

It quite literally has p2w stuff

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

#

You don’t need p2w elements but you can have a convenience sub

#

That people will prob buy anyway eventually

#

But people can get into the game for free

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

there are a lot of ways to monetize content

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

Poe just call their p2w ”quality of life”, but in the end its p2w

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

season pass is one example that probably would work well for wow

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

Can their p2w thing be acquired thru in game means?

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

No

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:30 PM

#

instead of giving the 6 month sub reward, put it into a season pass

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:31 PM

#

Ok then thats just pure p2w

#

In bdo its like runescape

#

Or even wow sub

#

You can get the gold and buy the sub yourself

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:31 PM

#

tokens just mean somone else put in the money in the game ^^

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:31 PM

#

I mean ye, wow can be f2p already

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:31 PM

#

I dont see a problem with letting players get into the game with a 1 ttime payment for an xpac

#

And then playing for free

#

If you wanna buy the convenience thing go for it

#

Or grind up the gold for it

#

Your choice

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:32 PM

#

The problem for me is that f2p games end up being way more expensive

#

Than sub games

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:32 PM

#

wow is f2p if you boost enough atm

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:32 PM

#

I’d rather pay 15$ a month for a cool cosmetic and get the same patch cycle, than pay 15$ a month to EXIST in the video game and still get the same patch cycle

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:33 PM

#

I prob spent 100 euros on poe last league, just to get the bag setup stuff

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:33 PM

#

Ye that shit is stupid

#

if they had a way for you to get that stuff without paying real money aka grinding it

#

then it'd be ight

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:33 PM

#

again, the discussion would not be relevant if release cycles are shorter

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

but having no other way of acquiring it besides paying up

#

bad bad bad

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

livid ferry I’d rather pay 15$ a month for a cool cosmetic and get the same patch cycle, tha...

I just dont think f2p would increase dev hours

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

like I said

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

because e.g. in legion, a cycle of 3-4 months is fairly fast

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

if the patch cycles stay the same peeposhrug

#

obviously if they got even longer in f2p model its a diff discussion

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

having it doubled, is why this topic comes up

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

but I doubt they would lmao

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

there is no incentive to do f2p at all

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:34 PM

#

there is

mellow urchin Jan 17, 2022, 8:35 PM

#

And going f2p for an mmo is like admitting ur on maintenance mode and on the graveyard shift

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:35 PM

#

not always

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:35 PM

#

wow playerbase is still very high and the profit it generates is too

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:35 PM

#

going f2p makes your game more accessible to people who don't wanna necessarily

#

buy the base game

#

then buy the sub

#

then experience the surface of the game

#

realize they dont like it

#

and be upset they wasted like

#

what is it now

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:36 PM

#

wow also already has light moneytization options from f2p games

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:36 PM

#

75?

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:36 PM

#

like the shop

#

so it wouldn't get any benefits from going f2p outside of a bigger playerbase

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:36 PM

#

okay lol thats good

#

bigger playerbase in itself is a benefit what lmao

#

in an mmo that is a masssive benefit

#

because the players are what makes the game

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:37 PM

#

but it would be very risky to go from 13$/month fixed per player from 1M players + 60$ xpac
to potentially 3-4M players with no guarantee of similar gains even when considering the added players

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 8:37 PM

#

mellow urchin The problem for me is that f2p games end up being way more expensive

I mean in theory WoW costs like almost $450 per xpac

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:38 PM

#

I'm not for WoW going free but

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:38 PM

#

i personally don't care i just think they could benefit from it

#

makes literally 0 difference to me

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:39 PM

#

buoyant gyro I mean in theory WoW costs like almost $450 per xpac

my very basic estimate says 2 year cycle for a xpac + initial cost of the xpac.
So 13$ x 24 + 60 = 372$

#

also as mentioned above, the majority of content is in the actual initial aquisition of the game

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:42 PM

#

going f2p also has its cons though

#

botting would prob skyrocket

#

which would effect the ah pretty heavily

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:42 PM

#

you could do it like other games

#

so that you can unlock content with $

#

but once unlocked, you don't need further investment

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:44 PM

#

no that sounds awful

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:44 PM

#

if someone does bot, he does so in the newest content, so he would need to re-buy the game every time, this makes the entry barrier a lot higher

#

why? we already have that

#

xpac = unlock content

#

but we also have a subscription in addition

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:44 PM

#

let me go rebuy wrath of the lich king to be able to run ulduar for mog

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:45 PM

#

thats not how it usually works

#

but ye, if you would need to unlock each content patch or xpac, it would be just unbelievable expensive

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:46 PM

#

I mean the way I'm describing it is

#

you buy WoW

#

you pay X dollars

#

you have access to full game

#

no sub

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:46 PM

#

also one critical thing is

#

classic wow generates subscription money

#

so another reason such a change is very unlikely

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 8:47 PM

#

Honestly the problem with WoW right now is probably that their content model is more like a F2P model given the "seasonal" approach and also the fact that it's so slow in bringing new major content or features

#

WoW as a sub-based game is honestly a bit of a rip-off atm

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:47 PM

#

ye

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:48 PM

#

I mean, in 6 months of 9.1 all we got was recycled old content

#

With no revamp

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:48 PM

#

here wait 24 hours for your research. or spend $5 to have time cut in half.

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 8:48 PM

#

Paying over $100 of sub time per patch is pretty 🤔

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:49 PM

#

i thought about this a bit

#

basically the grind idea behind wow is very f2p like

#

just that there is no "skip for X"

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 8:49 PM

#

When individual patches actually cost more than an xpac, it starts to be a little funny

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:49 PM

#

nova nexus here wait 24 hours for your research. or spend $5 to have time cut in half.

nah im thinking more like

#

pay 15$ a month just like now

#

except

#

instead of paying to exist

#

you could have say, changed covenants at will back in 9.0

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

The BDO model kek

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

that new research tree scroll thing total looks like a pay to play crap

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

nova nexus here wait 24 hours for your research. or spend $5 to have time cut in half.

I mean tbh most f2p MMOs don't even do stuff like that. Usually their monetization is in QoL stuff like bank slots, etc. or in cosmetics

#

Not things with gameplay benefit

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

^

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

it’s the free phone game garbage

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:50 PM

#

wow on mobile would be very appealing

#

and if blizz would invest in developing casual content instead of stomping it it could work even better

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:51 PM

#

Imagine WoW added more character customization and cosmetics

#

They could monetize so many outfits etc

#

Hairstyles and idk what

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:51 PM

#

ye I mean thats literally what BDO does

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:51 PM

#

idk the farm all the stuff to do the research then wait x amount of time for it to finish just screams mobile phone game pay us to reduce time

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:52 PM

#

I mean the table and research garbage time gate shit is already a joke

#

and shouldn't exist at all

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:52 PM

#

I like the FF model more but again

#

FF actually patches in content

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:53 PM

#

just to put that idea, wow could be more like a metaverse

#

what epic approaches with fortnite

#

but instead of re-iterating it just drops systems to quick

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:53 PM

#

i don’t even care about the store mount stuff, just don’t half ass the in game stuff

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:53 PM

#

e.g. player housing is a good idea, and final fantasy showed that, yet it was dropped in wow after wod

#

pet battles are very good casual content, but lack iteration

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:54 PM

#

i miss my garrison

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:54 PM

#

also a lot of things just don't get iterated on

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:54 PM

#

I want player housing so bad

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:54 PM

#

making the mission board more like a autochess is a great idea

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:55 PM

#

bcuz they abandon all their systems lol

#

bcuz no one ever likes them

#

and just complain

pale jetty Jan 17, 2022, 8:55 PM

#

I stayed up for a week straight getting a house in ff

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:55 PM

#

which how much is a project leadership issue where the “two teams” are legit working on what feels like 2 seasonal games

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:55 PM

#

the mobile app with autochess - like for ingame benefits in wow?

#

it worked incredibly well for lol, so...

#

point is, there is a lot of area to explore that can be utilized, but yet isn't

#

but wow atm even lacks in their standard models and fails to iterate quickly on the default systems like raids

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 8:57 PM

#

so much of the old content would be fun to redo like the mage tower but as raids

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:57 PM

#

content preservation is also a big topic

#

content can stay relevant long term and time walking is actually a decent/okay system to it

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:59 PM

#

WoW needs more difficult solo content

#

like Runescape has

#

was watching my friend do some challenging like boss type encounter in runescape

#

that could reap pretty big reward

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 8:59 PM

#

i mean, sry to say this

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 8:59 PM

#

yes i know

#

wow will never have difficult solo content

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:00 PM

#

but low hanging fruit for solo content is the brawlers guild

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:00 PM

#

i miss beta torghast

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:00 PM

#

and it was not updated in 9.1.5 like expected

#

i think the new boss mode in torghast is quite good

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 9:00 PM

#

visions was nice

#

in bfa

#

unironically

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

i did like the concept

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

quite hard and reaped a powerful gear piece potentially

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

up tot he point it became trivial

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

they had to fuck it up by putting player power with it

#

torghast that is

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

visions initially were rly exciting

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

torghast should have been purely cosmetic

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 PM

#

yup. that was a great step out for blizzard

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:02 PM

#

torghast was a bit to ambitious

#

even big companies who focus on roguelikes need a lot of iterations to make them good

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:02 PM

#

idk. beta was locked in and great then they well changed it

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:02 PM

#

so torghast was expected to be only short living

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:03 PM

#

they could do so much with it for testing talents and player power

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:03 PM

#

i was not the only one who did bring this up during beta

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:03 PM

#

seems like wasted opportunities

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 9:03 PM

#

I mean the big thing to me for WoW being sub-based is that you don't really want a sub-based game to feel like it's being developed on a shoestring, ya know? Basically feels like the design team is constantly understaffed and behind on feature improvements and additions. I don't really expect that when I'm paying a sub.

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 9:03 PM

#

agree

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 9:04 PM

#

Like essentially outsourcing stuff like M+ ratings or taking forever to do anything for key pusher rewards or whatever after 2.5 xpacs imo is kinda..???

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:04 PM

#

^ another example of a system that was not iterated on well/enough

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 9:04 PM

#

That's supposed to be a core feature of the game, feels odd that it just gets procrastinated because they don't have enough bandwidth

livid ferry Jan 17, 2022, 9:04 PM

#

m+ dead

#

still no relevant rewards

#

besides the title

buoyant gyro Jan 17, 2022, 9:05 PM

#

Stuff like crafting just gets phoned in over and over in recent xpacs, just copy and pasting the same recipes

#

Just makes it feel like the game is being developed on a tiny budget, which isn't really what you want from a "premium" product that is charging a sub fee

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:07 PM

#

imagine if other sub based services (say exercise stuff like peloton) was priced like wow. good luck

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:07 PM

#

one thing blizz rly has for them is a very loyal fanbase

#

and a very strong universe people like

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

they seemingly haven’t hit the oh shit moment where they realize competition is there

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

there was no competition up till recent

#

and the competition was only highlighted by the community

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:08 PM

#

do enough to keep them coming back.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:09 PM

#

if there was no big promotion for final fantasy online, it would not be a competition

#

wow was up till recent in its own bubble, and this allowed it to stay there relatively untouched

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:12 PM

#

agreed.

#

their inability to capture esports for wow kinda mind boggling as well.

#

i like that the community got the rwf stuff going, but other areas are so lacking

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:15 PM

#

i don't think its that bad

#

the great push event shows that they are inclined to explore new ideas

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

the mdi stuff is bad especially for the competitors

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:16 PM

#

and i think speedrunning in wow could be a interesting aspect

#

mdi is basically speedrunning

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:17 PM

#

from a payout standpoint there’s little reason to do it. you lose stream time, winning cash is low

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

thats easy to fix

#

allow people to co-stream the event

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:18 PM

#

well all the practice time isn’t streamed

#

and that can be a lot of time

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

thats the decision of the players sadly

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

so you need to make that up somewhere

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

the only reason to not stream it is to have secret strategies or pathing

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

speed running is this case is finding routes and tricks others have not

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:19 PM

#

thats the thing

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

so it’s not exactly a choice

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:20 PM

#

i will probably get some angry comments on that

#

but m+ speedrunning is not a well explored space and not transparent enough

#

if both improves, it would become less of a issue to stream it

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:21 PM

#

if you compare it to sports, practices aren’t open for viewing. work is done away from the public eye and the events make the money.

#

no way i’m streaming a practice if i’m pushing to win

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:29 PM

#

events would generate hype

#

this means increased viewership

#

so a similar model would actually be achieved by allowing to co-stream

#

teams also can take sponsoring, and often do (complexity limit f.ex.)

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:30 PM

#

co stream the events sure

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:32 PM

#

to come back to speedrunning

#

if you look at any of the games that are popular in that category, you will see one common thing

#

they all share all their findings in tactics/etc

#

even tho like you pointed out, it would be more beneficial for the individual to keep it secret and then get the world record with a "new tactic"

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:33 PM

#

but are there mdi like comps for speed running? i genuinely don’t know.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:34 PM

#

wdym

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:34 PM

#

mario 64 mdi style competition or whatever

#

or are they just streaming to steam.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:35 PM

#

do we talk about speedrunning or mdi now?

#

i am slightly confused

#

i made the thesis/theory that mdi is very similar to speedrunning

#

hence that i compare it to speedrunning

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:36 PM

#

speed running. MDI is a competition. is there a completion like that with prize pools for speed tuning whatever othe game.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:36 PM

#

yes

#

sm64 had a 16 star speedrunning contest just recently

#

and people could qualify for it by beating a certain timer

#

and then did have a certain time limit to get the best time they can in the category

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:37 PM

#

and the people that took home money all stream all their practice type runs?

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:38 PM

#

they had 2 events

#

1 with big streamers who did play against each other in a best of 3

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:39 PM

#

cool

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:39 PM

#

1 with wr holders that had a great push like event to get the best time in

#

both had a price pool iirc, i am unsure if the streamer money was for a good cause tho

#

to talk about streaming/money

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:40 PM

#

mdi for me is like waiting for a mistake to happen

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:41 PM

#

one example is boxbox, boxbox had around 2-5 times his normal viewers when streaming practice of the game, so it was very lucrative for him

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:41 PM

#

idk how they adjust it more for some better variety in classes or maps ext

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:41 PM

#

wind furnace one example is boxbox, boxbox had around 2-5 times his normal viewers when strea...

that’s cool

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:41 PM

#

so he did get money for streaming preperation + exposure of the event + price money (if he did win)

#

for the top runners

#

most of them did already stream, but e.g. the winner of the challange did get a big surge in viewers after the event too

#

and now has a lot bigger viewer base than before when streaming

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:42 PM

#

i much rather watch the map from a player stream than the head to head stuff

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:43 PM

#

its just an example, and sm64 is probably a good one because it got a lot of attention recenlty

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:43 PM

#

feels like i’m supporting that person more

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:44 PM

#

but the point i tried to make was more how those players share information

#

and how hiding streams is with more transparent information flow something you don't need to do

#

to go back a bit to wow and mdi

#

echo basically did win in the great push over other teams by knowing a exploitable bug that other teams had no information about

#

blizz did allow it, but it wasn't disclosed proper or in time

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:47 PM

#

yes. wow is more spy vs soy with its info.

rwf should be interesting, especially if last bosses are blind.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:47 PM

#

so this creates friction because now, even tho the team played well. The win and even money they gained from it seems to be a consequence of hiding bugs/information

#

if however it was more like speedrunning and this bugs/etc did get disclosed publicly

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you would not run into these issues at all

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because you would have a even playing field

viscid hill Jan 17, 2022, 9:48 PM

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Obedience Leg doesnt work on Raidbot PTR ?

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:48 PM

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yes

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there was a mistake in assigning the powers on ptr

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hence its currently now working correct

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:49 PM

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nice chat fuu. going to let the channel get back on topic.

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:49 PM

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hehe true, we went a bit off topic but i enjoyed the discussion

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:50 PM

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i always like learning how others operate

viscid hill Jan 17, 2022, 9:50 PM

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Erf ok, well thanks. Some simed 9.2 Kyrian vs Venthyr without Sylv dagger ?

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:50 PM

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i did a while back

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can re-do it once obedience is fixed

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but kyrian/venthyr are a lot closer without daggers

delicate osprey Jan 17, 2022, 9:51 PM

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also lets mourn the death of rotten as an option

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after all the aakari addons that we got

nova nexus Jan 17, 2022, 9:51 PM

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if they stealth nerf EoN would that just show up in the spell data?

viscid hill Jan 17, 2022, 9:51 PM

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Because, I don't feel Kyrian Echoing with all these CP proc

delicate osprey Jan 17, 2022, 9:52 PM

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i mean chances are we will just play kyrian for most bosses but i actually wonder if on the 4t boss necro is fine

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venth may see some play if we need bursto time

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:52 PM

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4t boss

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you just go assassination

delicate osprey Jan 17, 2022, 9:52 PM

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although funnily enough nf is more burst

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:53 PM

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or venthyr for funnel

delicate osprey Jan 17, 2022, 9:53 PM

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yea assa seems really good with new things and dusk

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getting short vendetta due to energy overdrive

wind furnace Jan 17, 2022, 9:53 PM

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assassinaiton 2p is rly strong

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somewhat interessted to see how well it works in m+

#9.2 Feedback and Discussion