9.2 Feedback and Discussion | Ravenholdt | Page 9

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:10 PM

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ahaha same

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:10 PM

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oh hey i am just doing 50% less dmg

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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i agree, i am still unsure why kindred isn't nerfed

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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i will always remember this hivemind log

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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hivemind was wild

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destruction and fire mage

robust lotus Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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Every simp ability is busted tbh

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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insane

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:11 PM

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wCKPnMFW3gB7xN6Z#fight=27&type=damage-done

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rank 1 sub(at the time)

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100k less dps than epic parse mage

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:12 PM

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i mean its fight design

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:12 PM

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well nya lotha was just designed around mage

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:12 PM

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but 8.3 was rly bad balance wise

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also it was loved

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always hear people cheer corruption up, rarely hear anyone complain

mossy carbon Jan 14, 2022, 12:15 PM

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People remember corruption at the end, not equipping green swords and cloth gear because infinite stars was the most broken thing the game has ever seen

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:15 PM

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i really liked corruption because you would for ONCE choose what you could use

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even on the last weeks we were finding out goofy shit

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like full crit mage and even some cdr things on some other classes

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rn you are railroaded

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like you will have 2 dances that last 8 seconds and you will enjoy it

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everything else rotates around it

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:16 PM

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wind furnace always hear people cheer corruption up, rarely hear anyone complain

i complained about it all the time and still do

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vendor was trash

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:16 PM

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Infinite stars was heavily hated though

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:16 PM

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corruption was trash

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 PM

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i had like 5 different sets for corruption

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 PM

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i quit the game, more or less

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after vendor came

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had a long break

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barely have logs in 8.3

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 PM

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i farmed almost 10000 arenas or something for echoes or whatever

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 PM

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cus fuck corruption

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 PM

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also the ap grind was glorious

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those plebs with low neck level

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smh

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i didnt even spam farm islands just did ap wq everyday

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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i have more kills on SoD bosses than i did in 8.3 already

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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and was like 4th world

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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yes, yet majority of my guild thinks very positive of corruption

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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stockholm syndrome

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it was trash

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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and also people outside of my guild

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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personalizing a character in a rpg game is always sweet

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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assassination also has a lot of players still referencing it as the best time for the spec

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:18 PM

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the fact that you had to suffer to keep up logwise was the most dumb shit i have ever seen

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oh i have a constant 60% movement slow or i do no damage

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o i get chased by this dumb ass mob that almost kills me

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or this eye circle that i might have to cloak

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great design

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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It was practically a game of chicken to log

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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ye

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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Get your corruption high enough

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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not very fun imo

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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Hope you dont die from it

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:19 PM

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cus some ppl are actually

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cooked in the head

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when it comes to that

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and went like 120 corruption

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:20 PM

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I know right

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The damage taken aplification as well

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:20 PM

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ye smh

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idk

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i would never do that

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being a burden to my raid

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for logs

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fuck that

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:20 PM

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I didnt go higher than 59 i think

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 12:20 PM

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nah same

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think i did 79 once and never again

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 12:21 PM

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On first fight I did 79 too i think

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Other than that no thanks

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I was fire mage back then and on wrathion i'd literally kill myself

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I had to ask for pain supression

turbid scaffold Jan 14, 2022, 12:45 PM

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Corruption did auto damage for all those low performers

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E.g. twilight devastation

lunar fractal Jan 14, 2022, 3:13 PM

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Probably going off topic with corruption 😛

carmine wasp Jan 14, 2022, 3:14 PM

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finality+RC the move so far on PTR? Or is akiris still worth for ST

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 3:15 PM

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akaaris is worth it for st

steel meadow Jan 14, 2022, 3:42 PM

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does belt not work in sim atm?

plucky storm Jan 14, 2022, 3:59 PM

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Obedience doesn’t work, and by that effect neither does the belt

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Belt works in game though

steel meadow Jan 14, 2022, 4:01 PM

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ye but in sim it uses toxic onslaught effect even if im venth

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thats why i asked

livid ferry Jan 14, 2022, 5:00 PM

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plucky storm Obedience doesn’t work, and by that effect neither does the belt

What part of it doesnt work

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 5:01 PM

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it is ret paladin leggo right now

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the necrolord one

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vanquisher's hammer

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i think they fixed it ingame tho right

coarse quiver Jan 14, 2022, 5:06 PM

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its not "fixed" it just never was an issue

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the belt leggo works fine and has flag on it

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but for some reason if you have obedience on any other piece (9.1 pieces for example) it just turns into a ret Necro leggo

steel meadow Jan 14, 2022, 5:09 PM

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notlikethis

coarse quiver Jan 14, 2022, 5:10 PM

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but in practice its fine

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you already knew you were wearing the new belt on top of a new leggo

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im assuming just in simming something is wonked

steel meadow Jan 14, 2022, 5:11 PM

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yes and thats legit what i asked

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i perfectly know that it works in game

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thats the issue

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 5:18 PM

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If the covenant specific one does not work from it just put it in as a shirt:```
#obedience
shirt=Legendary,bonus_id=7572

#Resounding Clarity
shirt=Legendary,bonus_id=7577

#Toxic Onslaught
shirt=Legendary,bonus_id=7478

#Deathspike
shirt=Legendary,bonus_id=7573```

steel meadow Jan 14, 2022, 5:19 PM

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ok ill do it thanks

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nah it just doesnt work even if i simply rerun ur old sims
would wait for fix ig

buoyant gyro Jan 14, 2022, 6:05 PM

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Until Blizzard fixes it, it'll be broken on PTR sims. Not really any way around it

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Bonus ID data is just busted

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 6:06 PM

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oh ye, its the power not the legendary ^^

winged fiber Jan 14, 2022, 10:30 PM

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found an interesting bug / interaction

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if you vanish as you finish and 4 pc procs it'll teleport you to one of the targets that gets shadowstrikes from 4 pc

delicate osprey Jan 14, 2022, 10:32 PM

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letting jesus take the wheel

wind furnace Jan 14, 2022, 10:33 PM

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its a side effect of the proc acting as a real shadowstrike

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shadowstrike teleports you if you are out of melee range during stealth/vanish

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i also mentioned it in the feedback post

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the 4p proc is also 15 yard range, this means it can happen that you teleport

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but you will rarely use vanish-finisher, so the chance of it happening is rather low

winged fiber Jan 14, 2022, 10:43 PM

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yea i was just trying to drop threat cuz tank died and no dance

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is a very rare scenario

echo crypt Jan 14, 2022, 11:16 PM

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4pc slapped on raid testing today

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its so good on 2-3 target cleave

civic terrace Jan 14, 2022, 11:23 PM

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I got procs for days

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Felt a little extreme tbh

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Got 4 procs in a row a handful of times, one time even 5

echo crypt Jan 14, 2022, 11:32 PM

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ye same

hoary zephyr Jan 14, 2022, 11:38 PM

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civic terrace Got 4 procs in a row a handful of times, one time even 5

I got 8 today

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On Proto

civic terrace Jan 14, 2022, 11:39 PM

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Thats wild

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It also confuses me since my FW runs out sometimes and im like.. am i now gonna ss at full cp?

mellow urchin Jan 14, 2022, 11:55 PM

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4p is meant to give FW

marble hound Jan 15, 2022, 12:33 AM

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hi guys, can you share all class tier sets sim? plsss ><

plucky storm Jan 15, 2022, 12:34 AM

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marble hound hi guys, can you share all class tier sets sim? plsss ><

That doesn’t exist

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And if it did it would be incredibly stupid

marble hound Jan 15, 2022, 12:35 AM

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oh

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ok

plucky storm Jan 15, 2022, 12:37 AM

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Comparing classes through sims is already kinda silly on live, but with ptr tuning and reworks and missing implementations

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Just super doesn’t make sense

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:02 AM

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echo crypt its so good on 2-3 target cleave

did you keep using strike on 3 targets?

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 8:13 AM

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it is not a bad idea to get blades

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:15 AM

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it is better

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^ quite noticeable even

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basically one of the apl changes for 9.2 we had so far

sleek mortar Jan 15, 2022, 8:21 AM

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What is that sim for? Ptr st?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:24 AM

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3 target cleave

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 8:39 AM

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wind furnace did you keep using strike on 3 targets?

wdym?

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oh if it kept proccing?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:39 AM

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it is better to use strike instead of storm on 3 targets

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 8:40 AM

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OHH

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wait really?

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with the tier set?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:40 AM

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yes

hoary zephyr Jan 15, 2022, 8:40 AM

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that is strange haha

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 8:40 AM

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i tested it when we got the implementation

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my initial thought was to only fish for shb and use storm else

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but it was better to even just not use storm during dance

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 9:30 AM

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Makes sense

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Was already better funnel

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 11:40 AM

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When you're talking about "one of the APL changes we've had for 9.2 so far" ... is there a way to follow these discussions? Like a branch on github/simc? I don't wanna be nosey but following these experiment and the reasoning behind them would let me learn a lot about the class. If I don't know what to press in a certain situation I basically check the APLs.

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 11:43 AM

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its open source

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isnt it

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 11:48 AM

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Sure but the last APL changes are a month old and there isn't anything 9.2 related. Also I can't seem to find a branch with these experiments. So I guess there is some offline discussion happening around these (which is fine if you want it to keep that way). But perhaps there is a branch or an obscure Discord thread that I have not found yet.

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 11:50 AM

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/8195acd5d4a084790291b6945d37658a2bf137f6

GitHub

[Subtlety] Update AoE APL for T28 · simulationcraft/simc@8195acd

Avoid using Shuriken Storm at exactly 3 targets when using T28 2pc, from @fuu1

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t28 is 9.2

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but yes, the change is "old" by now

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we usually discuss apl in the discord channels

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so either the subtlety or this channel

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9.2 apl wise does not significantly change things, the set is mostly passive and only means you need to pay more attention to not make mistakes when you get procs

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 11:54 AM

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Ok, thanks for clearing this up. How did I even miss that ^^?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 11:56 AM

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Easiest way to get involved into apl is to just ask questions for stuff you either think is wrong, can be optimized or don't understand

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 11:57 AM

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@wind furnace there could be apl updates to other borrowed power

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like how to deal with PV stacks now that akaari and WM is also giving them

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you swim in PV stacks

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 11:57 AM

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yes

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 11:57 AM

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and it might be worth backstabbing in dance

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at 5 or 6

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 11:58 AM

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i thought about it already when i saw that its now also proccing from wm

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there is always potential for things to change, and thats good

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 11:59 AM

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Sounds highly plausible, depending on how many more PV procs we are talking from the fix (havent tried it on ptr yet)

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 11:59 AM

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i mean

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akaari

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is giving pv

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not just WM

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and the 4p too

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so you can prob get 6 stacks of PV midway

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of a dance

mossy carbon Jan 15, 2022, 12:04 PM

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I know fuu mentioned it was now worthwhile to strike with 3 targets, I wonder if its also viable to strike at 4 targets until you get a 4p proc and full PV stacks from that?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:04 PM

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akaari proccing pv should give a lot more pv stacks, so potentially a condition like
actions.stealthed+=/backstab,if=buff.perforated_veins.stack>=5&buff.shadow_dance.remains>=3
should work

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its not worth it on 4 targets from what i remember in my testing

mossy carbon Jan 15, 2022, 12:05 PM

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Cool, thanks

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:07 PM

#

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seems to take like

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4-5 secs

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to go from 1 PV to 6

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:08 PM

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yea we already talked a bit about this yesterday

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we might need to put a PV trigger if dance has more than 4 secs left and we get 6 stacks to use it inside

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:09 PM

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ye

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with the above line:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8w5EhFFsAk7XW98fonhqhQ

mossy carbon Jan 15, 2022, 12:11 PM

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If you do use bs inside dance to use PV stacks, and then you end up with another 2 or 3 stacks by the time dance ends, should you use those before you enter next dance? Or try to stack to 5 or 6 before consuming?

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:11 PM

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=4 instead of >=3
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b3CN9AH3ZSWFQCkHtMjB1V

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seems about equal tho even if it says .2%

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happens about this often:

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~2 times per sim

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not sure if its proccing from akaaris in the sim

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:13 PM

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probably not

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dont think anyone thought it would

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:13 PM

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yea so it might be around a 1% or so

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as it will be aakari+blades and wm things

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:14 PM

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how many PV procs

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do you get in those sims

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this is 4:30 min

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286 procs

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:14 PM

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maybe need to be evel less agressive

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because it can happen quite early in dance too

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:15 PM

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wait

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do you only get 116 procs

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over 5 mins

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in that sim

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:15 PM

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ye

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seems like its not proccing from akaaris

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:15 PM

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ye thats way too little

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its not procing from WM in sims either

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and not the 4p

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:16 PM

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i assumed it would given that they changed the flag

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:16 PM

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its literally only procing from regular strikes and still a gain?

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weird

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well the sim implementation hasnt changed right

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:16 PM

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maybe need manual changes in the implemenation

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yes, but the sim is also using the spell data

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:17 PM

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115 strikes cast, 116 PV buffs

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legit not getting it from any other source

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than direct strikes

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in that sim

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so it might be a gain to even do on live

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kekg

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:17 PM

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wm could be included

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:17 PM

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nah

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its not

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this is about PV implementation right

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not anything else

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and thats probably not something you would change

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up to like a few days ago, PV wasnt even procing on WM

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and now it procs from everything

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:19 PM

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ye, ill ask koji to double check

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:19 PM

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Gonna be getting PV out the wazoo

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:19 PM

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i mean ye

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i have a 4.5 min log

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that has more than double the PV stacks

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compared to the sim fuu is using

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:20 PM

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RHmm

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:20 PM

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it makes sense

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but i am not sure if akaaris is intended

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to proc it

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:20 PM

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i mean they just added "can proc from procs" on PV

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and akaari is a proc

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so i guess it should

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:21 PM

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akaari is technically not a shadowstrike tho

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:21 PM

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well

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it is

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apparently

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:21 PM

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its interessting

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given that this would make pv rly strong

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double pv procs sound wild

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:21 PM

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its more than double

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even

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:22 PM

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just a rough estimate

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:22 PM

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kekg

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actually insane

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:22 PM

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What's average ss

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And average PV bs

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:22 PM

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PV bs is like double the dmg of a strike

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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How many dance casts on 5 mins on average

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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ahaha

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also remember we have blades really often now

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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Sheesh

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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so it is still 2 cp

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and also gets a boosto

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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It's all like compounding upwards

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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ahaha yea

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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Additive on additive

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:23 PM

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116 procs

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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Plus WM

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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i think we may drop deepers daggers instead of stiletto tho with this super sinergy

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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from fuu's 5 min sim

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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Would still go lashing, PE, DD in aoe personally

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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this will finally solve all the backstab issues

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lashing?

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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there is no aoe for sub

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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just be kyrian

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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ur not playing lashing

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lmao

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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Venthyr in m+

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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venthyr bois, get out

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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mellow urchin this will finally solve all the backstab issues

wdym backszab issues?

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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that is kyrian

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:24 PM

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*backstab

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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Kyrian in raid still

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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wind furnace wdym backszab issues?

the backstab as 1st gcd

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you would need a separate backstab bind

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for this

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no matter what

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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PV/DD/Stiletto

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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oh haha ^^

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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finally the old people can rest

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as backstab can be used

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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btw. i also have the backstab issue on the bug tracker

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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backstab value pog

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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maybe somone fixes it

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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yea you would not run PE as sub on m+ if you plan cooldowns

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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its not like this issue exist for long

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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what if gloomblade actually gets stonks with this

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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if you want to just plug and play well that works

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:25 PM

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only since 7.0

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it won't

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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gloomblade could have use in pvp yes but for pve wm is too strong

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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wm is juts to good

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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wtf do you bind backstab to

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in dance

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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wm on strikes, procs, etc.

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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NotLikeThis

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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i will have it on 2

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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symbols key bind ^^

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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I'm just gonna have it on S1

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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/cast symbols; backstab

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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Which is tornado current

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

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man sub is a genius

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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also gonna need a PV tracker

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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and a sound cue

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because now you can go from 2 to 6

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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They are easy enough to make

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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in like

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1 global

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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Takes like a minute

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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you will also get 2 pv stacks per 4p proc

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out of dance

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cus 1 from the 4p

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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I just have big number next to character

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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and 1 from akaari

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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ahaha yea

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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🤔

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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But I also need to redesign my UI

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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maybe we can 200iq play backstab

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so that we don't lose akaari ticks

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:27 PM

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I've gone from 1080p to 1440p

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:28 PM

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with pv

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:28 PM

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mellow urchin wtf do you bind backstab to

imagine not already having them on separate binds

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:28 PM

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macro enjoyer

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:28 PM

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i use both

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cus im lazy

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:28 PM

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mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:29 PM

#

man there's chinese players on the dummy in org

#

every single day

#

can legit login at any time of day

#

and there will be at least one chinese gamer

#

practising on the dummy

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:29 PM

#

Built different

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:29 PM

#

they are leveling up

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:29 PM

#

It would be cool if they got more involved in western tc

#

Cos they always come up with wild shit

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:30 PM

#

#

for some reason they test with 272 weapons

robust lotus Jan 15, 2022, 12:30 PM

#

No dagger

#

Thinkgers

#

Sylv dagger, I mean

#

And don't mind me I realise now that is a warrior

#

pepeLaughing

#

Probably cos they just bought from PvP vendor

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:33 PM

#

mellow urchin for some reason they test with 272 weapons

they know about outlaw 🙈

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:36 PM

#

#

first try backstabbing in dance

#

10% stab dmg Pog

#

kinda awkward without a tracker tho

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:36 PM

#

jeesus

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:37 PM

#

tehre is some opportunity cost in losing strikes

#

which means you might lose blades uptime

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:38 PM

#

i can test it further once its in simc

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:38 PM

#

just gonna be about finding out if it outweighs it

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:38 PM

#

should be easy to pin down

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:41 PM

#

It's right there in the comments 😄

#

Probably just need to remove that check

#

Or add shit to it. Cpp is a mystery to me

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:42 PM

#

i let mystler/koji do engine changes

#

c++ has a lot of piftalls

#

(but i assume just removing the check should be fine, but would need more context to be sure)

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 12:52 PM

#

#

kekg

#

any 11% backstab dmgers

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 12:53 PM

#

o.O

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 12:58 PM

#

backstab 📈

worn prawn Jan 15, 2022, 12:59 PM

#

mellow urchin

what is your blades uptime while doing stabs in dance?

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:03 PM

#

it should not be tanked that much tbh

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:04 PM

#

it does drop a bit

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:04 PM

#

funny shit will be when you just used bs to clear stacks then get the aakari proc from the strike before you finish and get 4 more from wm

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:04 PM

#

in all attempts with stabbing in dance its been between 48-55% blades uptime

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:04 PM

#

makes sense

#

well damage is damage in the end

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:05 PM

#

4p isnt giving blades atm

#

so it will be more uptime

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:05 PM

#

that too

#

kyrian seems like it will be kinda interactive

#

with everything

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 1:07 PM

#

we can bring it to the next level

#

and write a weakaura to show you akaari ticks, so you can play efficiently around pv stacks

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:12 PM

#

that is a nice idea actually

#

would be good to have a double mini timer with ShT and aakari+PV

#

might do one apart from droodfocus

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:12 PM

#

55% blades uptime now without using stab in dance

#

its hard to test this set

#

so fucking rng

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 1:13 PM

#

i think somone made a timer showing individual swing timers

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:13 PM

#

yea gamba to the moon

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 1:36 PM

#

I've built simc locally and tried to remove the check with fuu's profiles from above... So the apl change happens more often now.

#

Still not overwhelming

#

But I'm pretty sure I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:38 PM

#

we need to change proc conditions first and those are done in core

#

have to add aakari and 4p and wm on those both

#

for pv i mean

#

same as 4p proccing blades i think but that may be in

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:40 PM

#

crimson dawn I've built simc locally and tried to remove the check with fuu's profiles from a...

how many PV procs

#

in your sims

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 1:42 PM

#

Is this the right thing to look at?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:43 PM

#

133 procs

#

way off the numbers

#

we get on ptr

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 1:44 PM

#

Yeah as expected I have no idea... well I keep trying 😄

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:44 PM

#

i dont think you can do anything about it

#

it needs new PV implementation

#

in simc

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:44 PM

#

yes as told before we have to add things to core

#

no syntax will help rn

#

as there is no way to make aakari or tier to get pv unless it's added from what i can see

#

same with wm on both of those

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:46 PM

#

i think its gonna be quite tricky

#

to play this

#

if you stab too much its very bad for dps

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:46 PM

#

interactive spec pog

#

yea you might want blades when using the pv

#

as you also get less punished by cp generation

#

going from 50% deficiency to 33%

#

im actually quite curious how it will end up after everything is polished

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:49 PM

#

It feels kinda bad to not consume the stacks

#

Reach 6 and you have like 2-3 shadowstrikes to go

#

Which is another 4-5 pv stacks

#

But so far on dummy i havent been able to like, get massive dmg out of using stab in dance

#

Its usually very similar numbers, rng being annoying factor tho

#

I actually despise testing this set

#

Never know if something is good or if its just more rng

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 1:54 PM

#

yea that is why we need the wisdom of 100000 iterations

#

it kind of makes sense to be a win

#

now the question is if it will be big enough

#

for kyrian at least maybe venth will opt out of using PV if it gets more neutral

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 1:56 PM

#

I found it very hard to formulate sensible decisions with it as well

#

Didnt really know what to do with it

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 1:58 PM

#

Unless something drastically changes

#

No one should play venthyr on st

#

Let alone venthyr with PV

#

You would only play venthyr on aoe and you would drop PV for either PE or stiletto

#

I think that holds true even now

#

In 9.1.5, unless you get kindred

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:01 PM

#

Thonk

#

No PV?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:02 PM

#

Why would you play pv on venthyr if ur not going to play it on st

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:02 PM

#

Oh no from what you said I took that I shouldn't play PV on live as kyrian

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:02 PM

#

I think its griefing to play it on st in current patch and it looks to become even worse in 9.2

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:02 PM

#

"let alone" 😅

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:03 PM

#

Well i meant venthyr with pv

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:03 PM

#

Just reclarifying the noise, i gotcha

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:05 PM

#

is this here to stay, or just some byproduct of them trying to fix bugs

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:05 PM

#

They simply added

#

”Can proc from procs” to pv last week

#

And i dont think they are going to go deeper into it than that

#

So i would assume it stays

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:06 PM

#

was that in patch notes

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:06 PM

#

Nah

#

But koji said they added it a few days ago

#

In spell data

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:07 PM

#

ah I see

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:07 PM

#

And i think thats what they tried to do with akaari too

#

But then akaari started procing from itself

#

Aka never ending loop of akaari

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:07 PM

#

The idea is that Akaari can proc from set I believe

#

Didnt they manage to do that though, thought it does now and the loop was fixed

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:08 PM

#

No

#

Its not fixed

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:08 PM

#

Thats what I took from scar's post in blue

#

ok

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:08 PM

#

Neither blades nor akaari is working as intended

#

On ptr

#

With the set

#

Only pv is

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:09 PM

#

why would that be bad of venthyr though

#

the pv change

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:09 PM

#

No it doesnt change anything for venthyr

#

Cus you dont have as much dance

#

And you cant just stab in dance as easily

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:09 PM

#

well it doesn't change anything for anyone

#

or at least at worst it stays the same

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:09 PM

#

Thats the entire idea tho

#

That it does change things

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:10 PM

#

Ye but you don't have to stab in dance

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:10 PM

#

Well you will if its a dps gain

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:10 PM

#

yea, I meant to write at worst

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:10 PM

#

Venthyr is trash tho

#

Which is the bigger point

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:10 PM

#

Ye but like.. if PV is the better option now this change couldn't possibly make it a worse option

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:11 PM

#

Well i said that

#

Cus you wont play venthyr

#

For st

#

And pv is only good on st

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:11 PM

#

😅

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:11 PM

#

You dont play pv if you have cleave or aoe

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:11 PM

#

maybe they buff night fae copium

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:12 PM

#

Nah not anymore

#

That ship sailed when it become bis for assa

#

Became *

#

Buffing sepsis now would just make nf insane for assa

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:13 PM

#

we still have to see tuning changes though

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:14 PM

#

For sub it wont change anything, id guess

#

And they certainly wont buff venthyr

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:14 PM

#

who knows, they can nerf something covenant related

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:14 PM

#

if they change deathspike a bit and make sbs work with blades we may play necro in low target cleave

#

but i dont think that will happen

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:15 PM

#

quartz idol who knows, they can nerf something covenant related

Might nerf mikanikos

#

But even then

#

Prob wont play venthyr

#

Shits hella rng with the set, like out of control rng

#

No thanks

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:16 PM

#

how is the hitting 2 cp animacharged situation

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:16 PM

#

Annoying, but sort of like now

#

You can get the 2 cp from a non blades 4p proc, thats when it feels good

autumn jungle Jan 15, 2022, 2:17 PM

#

Can't wait to see Push go assa when sub remains too RNG Sinscheme

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:17 PM

#

I am assuming you will have even more dance uptime and there are gonna be situations where you just miss it

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:17 PM

#

Not on a dummy thus far

#

But ye perhaps in raid

#

Even missing the 2 more will prob not make up for the 200-300 dps between venthyr and kyrian

#

I would even argue you can prob miss all 2 cps and kyrian would still be more dps and less rng

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:20 PM

#

you are missing windfury on the dummy as well

#

which would make thing a bit more complicated to hit

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:20 PM

#

Ye

#

But as i said

#

If you get 4p

#

Without blades

#

You can evis into evis

#

Quite easily

quartz idol Jan 15, 2022, 2:21 PM

#

yea, but its kinda the same though, the problem would be when you have blades up

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:21 PM

#

And its not like blades has 100% uptime, even tho its close

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:21 PM

#

it will be so funny in pvp

#

getting gambaeed down

#

er evis evis evis mfd evis

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:21 PM

#

I have had moments on a dummy where i can finish 3 times in a row and get 3 different anima cps, quite interesting

#

Feels like climbing a ladder

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 2:23 PM

#

DogKek

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:24 PM

#

idk why but 4p proc does somewhat interrupt my rotational flow

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

yea it kinda ahaha

#

will need some time to get used too

#

same as PV garbanzo

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

But ppl need to get off the venthyr train, its insane to me reading the sub channel atm. People still think venthyr is the go to spec and ”recommended”. Living in some fairy wonderland

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

ill probably just end up binding bs to my covenant ability or symbols tbh

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:25 PM

#

now after each strike check for blades+wm and PV then when you finish check 4p and PV

#

as always people are really adverse to change

#

even now when venth is 300 dps behind

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:26 PM

#

i mean, i like the narritive more to have 2 options

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:26 PM

#

it is not enough

#

for many

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:26 PM

#

than that you need to play kyrian, even tho its noticable ahead with daggers

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:26 PM

#

i would really like nf to be better

#

or necro

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:27 PM

#

you could buff toxic for both sub/outlaw

#

by giving a longer duration buff of vendetta f.ex.

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:27 PM

#

yea and make sbs work with blades so it does quite more dmg

#

and not have abysmal st

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

necro is in a kinda weird spot tho

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

wind furnace than that you need to play kyrian, even tho its noticable ahead with daggers

Pretty sure venthyr is quite a bit behind even without daggers

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:28 PM

#

or with deathspike making the pikes be able to target 1 target twice or you have access to two dots

#

so many ways to not make it just suck

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:29 PM

#

Pls just let necro die

#

Awful covenant

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:29 PM

#

yea let me bully the mage or tank to go necro for Plaguefall

#

or well maybe the healer can also go

#

necro pala seems decent

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

If they force you to necro for plaguefall they are trolling

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

you want 2 necros for pf always

#

at least

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

Tank and healer, easy

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:30 PM

#

haha that also works

#

i wonder how necro bear plays

#

but now we will really spam strike even at 3 target eh

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:33 PM

#

Yeppers

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:33 PM

#

i quite like that

#

blades uptime to the moon baby

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 2:33 PM

#

Ok, didn't notice that akaaris_shadowstrike was handled separately from shadowstrike itself so I've added the proc there. Still off and I stop now. I wait and see how a proper implementation looks once it lands. Was a fun exercise.

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

kekg

#

Thats getting close

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

ahaha yea only need the 4p and the wm and aakaris from it

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

4p and wm are handled by shadowstrike itself... i think

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

i mean it is not like writing it will be hard itself but im sure if i try to do it too even knowing c++ i would mess something up ahaha

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:34 PM

#

mellow urchin Pretty sure venthyr is quite a bit behind even without daggers

giveme a sec, can check in a minute

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

nope you need the proc from proc to work

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

Ye

delicate osprey Jan 15, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

you can't refer to shadowstrike you need to refer immortal technique that refers to strike i think

#

and add aakari and wm from that too

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:35 PM

#

Things giving pv on ptr atm

#

Shadowstrike

#

Shadowstrike wm

#

Shadowstrike akaari

#

Shadowstrike 4p

#

And then shadowstrike 4p can itself akaari and wm

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 2:37 PM

#

Yep, so in the code wm and 4p will just trigger another shadowstrike with the secondary_action flag. But again... I just wait for the experts to fix this then I see what went wrong

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:37 PM

#

That also gives pv

#

Ur missing like 50-60 pv stacks from that sim

#

So its kinda close i guess

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:39 PM

#

crimson dawn Yep, so in the code wm and 4p will just trigger another shadowstrike with the `s...

👍

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 2:40 PM

#

Oh wait... will PV trigger if its just extending the duration? Probably right?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:40 PM

#

Yes

crimson dawn Jan 15, 2022, 2:40 PM

#

monkahmm

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:40 PM

#

You get overflow

#

On pv procs

autumn jungle Jan 15, 2022, 2:43 PM

#

Pls don't make me have separate keybinds for SS and bs lol

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:45 PM

#

i already suggested some macro workarounds

#

but its hard to say if its intended to proc pv from akaaris

#

it ofc is a fun interaction

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 2:46 PM

#

Do you think

#

They care

#

If it does

#

Care enough to start fiddling with the spell data, its probably not that impactful in the end

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 2:51 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tzKThjYJuTtit7VwVD4aGK

#

100 dps isn't that bad

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 3:35 PM

#

Ok again I asked this but

#

Why is wm supposed to give PV?

#

It doesn't on live

#

I don't see why the interaction is being brought up now

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:36 PM

#

Might be a bug on live servers

#

Might be an oversight

#

Might be a secondary effect from just making pv work with procs

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:37 PM

#

Its something you may expect when reading what both of those things do on an individual level

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:37 PM

#

It was somewhat of a surprise that PV did not work with WM when we found that out earlier this year

#

Cus why doesnt it

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:38 PM

#

If WM was not supposed to proc PV, maybe it shouldn't dictate to be a copy of said ability but instead just "sometimes randomly does damage equal to used builder" or something

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:38 PM

#

If i had to guess it was simply an oversight from the dev that implemented PV

#

And now adjusted

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

pale jetty Why is wm supposed to give PV?

ptr changed a flag, that now allows it to proc on wm. Thats the technical reason behind the change

#

what somehting is supposed to do is always hard to say

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:41 PM

#

Personally think its quite easy, if you have to ask yourself why something isnt working when all logic says it should

#

It probably should work

#

For the sake of good game design

#

A casual player with no chance to sit and read a bunch of spell data should be able to read an ability or spell and assume it works with similar things

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:42 PM

#

yes but a lot of players also assumed that e.g. akaaris would give full benefits of a shadowstrike including combo points

#

in fact i and others got surprised in beta that it actually did give those initially

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:43 PM

#

The wording on akaari was changed

#

In beta

#

Probably to make it more obvious that its not going to give cps

#

As for everyone else being surprised it gave cps is because you and those ppl know more about the spec than a casual player. To them it might not seem that crazy, and the first dev that made it certainly didnt consider how op it would be either

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:45 PM

#

what was the initial wording?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:47 PM

#

When reading the first tooltip, i assumed it was just a copy of a strike, which it also was

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:47 PM

#

thats my point, from a point of view with context it was not obvious but without the context of power constrains it wasn't

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:48 PM

#

100% effectiveness assumes all of the benefits

#

Not just dmg

#

Could just say 100% of the dmg

#

It was then changed to say 50% dmg as shadow and then changed to effectiveness again

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:49 PM

#

earliest iterations vs. current version:
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=340090/akaaris-soul-fragment#changelog

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:50 PM

#

#

You had this too

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:50 PM

#

If it wasnt named a "shadowstrike" but instead named a "strike" it wouldnt incur the suggestion it does what shadowstrike does

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:50 PM

#

100% effectiveness is a bad choice of word anyway, cus to me that assumes everything that comes with it

#

25% effectiveness literally doesnt make sense

#

Why not just say dmg at that point

#

Or should we expect 0.5 cp from it

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:52 PM

#

Or even better yet dont name it a strike at all

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 3:53 PM

#

could also word it like
"deals X% of the damage after Y seconds"

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:53 PM

#

Yes exactly

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:53 PM

#

I think the entire choice of using effectiveness instead of damage is just confusing. And there might be ppl out there that still thinks akaari is giving 0.5 cp

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:53 PM

#

Then nobody would ever be confused about if it should do what shadowstrike does or not

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:54 PM

#

But i think the design goal for akaari is to basically be a shadowstrike

#

Except for the cp gain

#

Cus it works with wm and blades

#

If it was just 25% of a strike, it would just be extra dmg

#

And 0 interaction

#

But trying to understand or decode why things are like they are is quite pointless unless we can talk to an actual dev about it. Nobody actually knows what blizz intend with these things

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:57 PM

#

If that was the goal theres nothing wrong with that essentially.. just a really poor choice of words that leads to confusion

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

We are just here for the ride

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

civic terrace If that was the goal theres nothing wrong with that essentially.. just a really ...

I mean, pure guesswork but I assume that’s the entire reason behind the word effectiveness instead of damage

#

The fact that it’s not just dmg

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

And thats completely understandable

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

But the loss of cps doesn’t make sense then and we can’t get fractions of cps, so idk man

#

Pretty sure blizz devs think way less about these things than we do lmao

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

Well thats because they have all the context and we just have to work with what they give us

#

All of this is just noise in communication

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:02 PM

#

Reason basically being

#

Cp too op

#

So no cp

#

But rest ok

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:03 PM

#

Sure and I think thats ok but that needs to be communicated

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:03 PM

#

I don't think they really give interaction as much thought as "dps in line with other classes/specs"

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:03 PM

#

I agree

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:03 PM

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They could have nerfed akaaris damage but kept cp interaction

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But the legendary is instead a lot more boring now

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:04 PM

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I am all for transparency in UI/tooltips, I think you have to guess way too much in this game

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:04 PM

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pale jetty They could have nerfed akaaris damage but kept cp interaction

Cp interaction alone was broken

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Would never be possible

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Make it do 0 dmg and just double ur cp gain = broken

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:04 PM

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You think it would've been broken with a weak damage effect and half CP effectiveness?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:05 PM

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Yes

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Even 1 cp

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Instead of 2

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:05 PM

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Yes but I'm saying

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Broken in comparison to what other specs get

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:05 PM

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Yes

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:05 PM

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Interesting

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:05 PM

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It was fully implemented during beta

#

But with missing some stuff

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In simc

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It was a 60%+ dps gain

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From akaari

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:06 PM

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At 100% yeah

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:06 PM

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Lol

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:06 PM

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It was not about the dmg

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You had 85% dance uptime

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On beta

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Cus you effectively doubled the cp gain

#

It was absolutely insane

#

The dmg is quite irrelevant in that case

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:07 PM

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But like doubling shadowstrike damage must have been a large effect

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I think that's undeniable

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:07 PM

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The play style was strike into finisher

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In all content

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Even in 10+ aoe targets

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You would strike into aoe

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:08 PM

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Isn't it after 2 sec?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:08 PM

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Ye but it keeps rolling

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You had full cp after every strike

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:08 PM

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So wouldn't the finisher go off before

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Ah

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:08 PM

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I mean I played it

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Quite a lot

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On beta

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And

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It wasn’t fun

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:09 PM

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Yeah I didn't touch it

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:09 PM

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2 button spec

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Strike into finish and perma dance

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The ppl that miss that version of akaari should simply not play sub

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Cus it wasn’t sub

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It was some dogshit havoc dh build

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:10 PM

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I just wish we had some more interesting legos

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Same

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Anything really

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:10 PM

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But not akaari giving cps

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:10 PM

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Finality and akaari are our best yeah but

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They're really boring

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Might as well forget their effect

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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Celerity is the same

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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Yeah perhaps akaari was too much

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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Dashing the same

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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I agree

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It's what I meant earlier

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That blizz ignores actual interaction

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And just focuses on numbers

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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ER is great

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:11 PM

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Yeah RC is a good one

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:12 PM

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Obedience is great

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:12 PM

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So is onslaught

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:12 PM

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Those are still our legendaries

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So ye akaari and finality are boring

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But our cov legendaries are quite good

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:12 PM

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Yeah maybe it's just me idk

#

I hear legendary and I think

#

This must do something interesting right

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:13 PM

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I would argue

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That it’s mostly not the case

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And it’s just a dps increase

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:13 PM

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But legendary design hasn't been that way since before legion

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:13 PM

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I don’t think old legendaries were very exciting either

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Exciting in terms of dps sure

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:14 PM

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I mean as long as they added something

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:14 PM

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I don’t remember what the fangs did

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But I think they were just passive low impact

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:14 PM

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Increasing agi, at certain stacks you insta filled cp

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Very high impact

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:14 PM

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Is that high impact?

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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It was

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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Ok

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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But fangs was also like

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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So rotten would be high impact?

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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One of their better legos

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Push

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It was a buff that lasted 6 seconds

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That procd infinitely more often than rotten would be up

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:15 PM

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Fair enough

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:16 PM

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But again

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Fangs was a rare good one

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Might be one of the best Legos they made

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:16 PM

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I only ever got to the egg collecting part

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:16 PM

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So unfair to compare to them

#

But I agree

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Even something like shadowmourne

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:16 PM

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They also made 120 legendaries this expansion or more

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:16 PM

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Wasn't that interesting

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Yeah that's true

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:17 PM

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Compared to 1 in DS

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:17 PM

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Yeah the concept of legendary has changed

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:17 PM

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Ppl wanted more like they always do

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:17 PM

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Shadowmourne is literally unholy dom set

#

The thing that was cool about shadowmourne back in the day, for me at least

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Was how fucking good the ret pala tier set

#

Worked with it

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:18 PM

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Yeah I guess there was tier set interactions too

#

I didn't play pala

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Never did

#

As war it's kind of

#

Meh

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:19 PM

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It was back when the.. swirly spell was a cd that did big dmg

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I can’t remember the name of it

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And the tier set had a chance to reset the cd of said swirly holy spell

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:19 PM

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Divine storm?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:19 PM

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Yes

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Divine storm was sick in its first iteration

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Very cool

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Shadowmourne just made it even bigger

civic terrace Jan 15, 2022, 4:21 PM

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Ye i remember

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:22 PM

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War was I think like

#

Just double execute in same gcd

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On a chance proc

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But like

#

You had to proc the execute talent, then proc the chance on the proc of the talent

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:23 PM

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Ye it was very rng, most of it

#

The firelands legendary was also cool

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:23 PM

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The caster one?

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:23 PM

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But mostly because you turnt into a fucking dragon

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:23 PM

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Yeah

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I like flavour like that

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:23 PM

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Don’t even remember the effect

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:24 PM

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It just had a chance to duplicate your cadt

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Cast*

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:24 PM

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And then you had the healing mace from ulduar

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Which gave ppl shields (?)

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On heals

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:25 PM

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Yeah

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I don't think it was huge though

#

Iirc it was okay

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:25 PM

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But all of these legendaries took a long time to farm, and honestly mostly pointless because you had to spend months to get the materials and the tier was long over

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Still worked in the next tier, but in the case of the fangs

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You had nowhere to use them for relevant prog

#

Just farm parsing, I guess

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:26 PM

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Yeah fangs were like

#

4 full clears?

#

Maybe 5

#

I don't remember exactly

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Phone reception literally dying

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:26 PM

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It was rng

#

But ye

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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Yeah the first part was rng

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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It had multiple steps, I remember being like 20 shards or whatever

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From completing it

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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Oh fuck I think it was way longer than 4 weeks actually

#

Ooh

#

After the shards

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You had to collect the full ass clusters

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LOL

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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Yes

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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Yeah it was aids

#

But the effect was so cracked

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:27 PM

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Sure

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But where did you use it

#

PvP?

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:28 PM

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Long after the raid ended really

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:28 PM

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It’s a shame

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:28 PM

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But

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:28 PM

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Bring back the fangs

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:28 PM

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That's if you were ethical

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If you were unethical

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Iirc there was a skip/exploit

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To get weeks ahead in the questline

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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The whole stealth mission while getting them was pretty cool

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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Server hopping for some reason

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Reset lockouts

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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What’s

#

That’s

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Ok

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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Ye

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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Nice game

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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Some people especially on Russian servers

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Got fangs real fast

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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lol

#

sounds unintended

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:29 PM

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It was

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:30 PM

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Ye

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:30 PM

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Lmao

#

It was full out exploiting

#

So yeah if you were ethical it was long over

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:30 PM

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I raided the then “mythic” version very casually

#

Back then

#

So I never got the fangs

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:31 PM

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The world first rogue did the exploit

#

I think the guild was uh

#

Exorsus?

#

Something like that

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:31 PM

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Don’t think we ever got past the boat fight or maybe we did and then decided to call it cus spine was insanity

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:31 PM

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So it got pretty spread from there

#

Spine was truly something else lmao

#

Spine was the actual end boss

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:32 PM

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Ye

#

Kind of a fucked tier

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:33 PM

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Yeah so sorry, fangs were 8 weeks

#

But the wf rogue got them in like 5

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Or even less

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:33 PM

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Wasn’t very popular either afaik

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My guild basically died forever in dragon soul

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:33 PM

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The tier?

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Yeah

#

It was pretty bad

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:34 PM

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Never recovered

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:34 PM

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Also playing a rogue sucked ass

#

Because you basically only ever had 1 rogue

#

Strictly

#

Or the other had to wait for the first rogue to finish the whole questline lmao

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:34 PM

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That was the story for all legendaries

#

Back in the day

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:34 PM

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Not Firelands

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:35 PM

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You simped 1 person to the legendary

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:35 PM

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Multiple people could get dragonwrath

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:35 PM

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Sure

#

But typically

#

It was 1 guy

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:35 PM

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So it was weird that the tier right after it was back to being shit

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:35 PM

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Shadowmourne had to be 1 guy

#

I remember how he had to do the vehicle mechanic on putricide

#

And if he was shit at it

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:36 PM

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But yeah it was the same as shadowmourne

buoyant schooner Jan 15, 2022, 4:36 PM

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pale jetty So it was weird that the tier right after it was back to being shit

One of the very first steps being to pick pocket a boss didn't help with current pick pocket rules

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:36 PM

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Guess we just wipe forever

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:37 PM

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I think it'd be fun to have those back though

#

Like if you farm something for 8 weeks

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:37 PM

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Banshee daggers could have been that

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:37 PM

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I feel like it should maybe give a small little boost

#

Yeah could've

#

Now don't get me wrong

#

Sylv dags are insane

#

Yeah it took me 28 weeks to get them

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:37 PM

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I think banshee daggers should be legendary

buoyant schooner Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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They could bring them back in 10.0 if the leaks are true, it fits the theme pretty well

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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But we won't be seeing something like banshees blight for a while

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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And come as a pair of 2

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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Also if you know

#

28 weeks wasn't a thing for me

#

Kek

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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28 weeks, has the raid even been out that long

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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Fucking shot my dps up by 1k just getting a second dagger

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:38 PM

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mellow urchin 28 weeks, has the raid even been out that long

Almost

#

I think this is the 28th

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:39 PM

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Oh

#

Shits been out for a long time huh

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:39 PM

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Yeah kinda dumb that it even takes that long

#

Yes sir

#

Literally half a year

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:39 PM

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Breaking records every patch now

#

Just gets slower and slower

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:39 PM

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I think it might end up just a bit shorter than nathria

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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Insane

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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Depends when they release 9.2

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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And nathria was basically out for as long as nyalotha

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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These tiers actually don't end

#

And no mini tier either

#

Pain

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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Typically this long downtime is the last tier

#

We have been living it

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:40 PM

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I can't even imagine

#

What 9.2 is gonna be

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:41 PM

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Since SL started

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:41 PM

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I mean SL launched Nov 2020 right

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:41 PM

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Ye

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:41 PM

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Yeah so realistically we won't see 10.0 until December or next year

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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I think they are going to be hard pressed to release 10.0 in 2022

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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That's also a possibility

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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Since all other major titles were postponed

#

Just business side of things

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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That these tiers are taking forever because they're fleshing out 10.0

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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Ye that’s copium

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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Can't play WoW without my copium

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:42 PM

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Impossible

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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i assume 9.2 is feb

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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I'm really actually hoping that it's dragon isles

#

Just know that unless they've said something, it's at least 3 weeks away

wind furnace Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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i did hear rumors about 10.0 this year, but who knows

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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Because they always announce 2 weeks

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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I mean

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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God I'm hoping it's this year

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:43 PM

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Season 3 arena tournament starts 18 march

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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I want out of SL so bad

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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I assume 9.2 will be out before that

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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Yeah it has to be

#

It's basically almost done

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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So somewhere before 18 march

#

At the latest

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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I'd bet like 22 Feb or something

#

Something around that

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:44 PM

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Perhaps

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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At least 9.2 will beat out 9.1 in terms of aesthetics

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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The items in the raid are still mostly placeholder tho

pale jetty Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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Sanctum is a depressing ass raid

mellow urchin Jan 15, 2022, 4:45 PM

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And the creation catalyst is not even in the game

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Yet

#9.2 Feedback and Discussion