9.2 Feedback and Discussion | Ravenholdt | Page 6

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:51 PM

#

you mean wm on live?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:51 PM

#

no

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:51 PM

#

regular shadowstrike does not give pv?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:51 PM

#

on live sims WM is not giving PV

#

as it should

#

on PTR sims WM is giving PV, which is wrong

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:52 PM

#

ahh okay

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:52 PM

#

but also on live sims

#

a bunch of PV stacks gone missing

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 12:54 PM

#

might want to put a force on spending at 6 stacks

#

i guess all this dance uptime is krangling a lot of things

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:54 PM

#

well i think i somewhat know

#

whats going on here

#

when fixing WM not working on PV

#

it was actually reversed

#

so WM procs is removing PV stacks

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 12:55 PM

#

interesting

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:55 PM

#

cus if you look at the amount of missing PV stacks, its 15 compared to the 16 WM procs

#

somehwat lines up kekg

#

super weird

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:56 PM

#

def. needs to be looked at/fixed

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:56 PM

#

gonna sim it again

#

and see if its still fucked

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:56 PM

#

akaari interaction should put akaaris a lot higher

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 12:57 PM

#

ye its an extra 32 procs

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 12:57 PM

#

will be interessting to see if it beats rotten

#

i kinda hope it does not

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:01 PM

#

well it would increase the akaari procs by almost a 3rd

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:01 PM

#

hmm should win out then

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:01 PM

#

and its 2.5% from akaari atm

#

0.8%

#

more

#

?

#

ish

#

bit less

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

So

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

might be equal

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

its quite close atm

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

the pv interaction might also net some % as we have a lot of blades uptime so it gets a more there

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

They didn’t fix the Akaari bug?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

in simc no

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

It’s not proccing from 4p?

#

Ah

#

Is it proccing on PTR?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

no bugfix was pushed to ptr

#

no

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

Ohhh

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

cus its still fully bugged

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

I thought they were

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

ptr is not fixed either

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

Ahh

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

it's a bit krangled right now some things are implemented but it needs looking

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

Well

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

it didnt make it into this ptr build

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

in simc

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

Guess we have to wait until the holidays

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

the bluepost just did say what will get fixed

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

After*

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

yes next build is on january

hoary zephyr Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

YEAH

#

Yeah*

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

long time

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 1:07 PM

#

well all the fixes quoted will net a lot of win

#

now if that helps the overall power who knows

#

vs other classes

#

i dont see a nerf at the moment at least

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 1:08 PM

#

its to early to assume nerfs

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 1:20 PM

#

#

same results

#

15 PV stacks gone missing

#

^ just simmed

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

@mellow urchin Koji did say he will fix the akaari bug, and that WM and PV work as intended.

#

Also don't hessitate to dm koji or mystler directly if it comes to potential bugs in simc

#

(you can ofc always ask me and i forward/discuss it with them)

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

wind furnace <@!153289634909126656> Koji did say he will fix the akaari bug, and that WM and ...

but PV isnt working as intended 🙂

#

so idk why they would say that

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

4p is triggering pv, it might be that

#

and not wm working incorrectly

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Nope

#

cus the numbers doesnt match

#

or its bugged

#

in other ways

#

@buoyant gyro PV is not gaining stacks from WM which is fine, cus thats not how it works ingame. But PV stacks is not equal to the amount of shadowstrikes used baseline, disregarding WM.

Like the picture i linked above:
Shadowstrikes used 107 (this is not including WM)
PV stacks gained = 93 (in total including overflow)

So where are the 14 PV stacks or is it working weirdly in sim?

spark surge Dec 18, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

it's probably not counting SS that don't apply another stack when already at 6

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Isnt that what overflow is

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

I’d have to check if the overflow is displaying correctly for that type of buff

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

i mean getting 20 overflow stacks is not exactly realistic i think

#

even if those 14 missing stacks are all overflow

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

Is this a PTR or live sim?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

live

#

since you dont gain PV from WM, its VERY hard to overflow on PV stacks unless you fuck up and chain dance

#

you literally cant use more than 6 strikes in a dance

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

I dunno. I’m guessing it’s just something related to reporting. This is a very simple implementation.

#

Do you have a sim link for the input?

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jWqNw1HLFp9muXbXN7uxa2/simc

Raidbots

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

Oh

#

Yeah

#

19.9+87.6 = 107.5

#

You have to look at both Start plus Refresh

#

Since it's a stacking buff

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

oh ok, that makes sense

#

i guess that would make the 4p also be in range

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

For PTR sims I did implement 4pc triggering it as he said it would (even though it doesn't)

#

(yet)

#

Mystler did find the issue with Akaari not triggering from 4pc as I meant for it to because of an additional check in the Akaari function but that should be easy to fix yeah. Although probably gonna munch a lot of procs

#

Akaari implementation in-game is really odd

#

When they made it not a "real" Shadowstrike

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:30 PM

#

is it still, cus when i check logs it seems to just be exactly the same amount of shadowstrike casts

#

but i know that during beta you'd partially lose

#

akaari or something

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:31 PM

#

It's a rare case that possibly sims just find more on average since they stick to strict rules. Maybe you are playing around it, or just don't see it often. It does take specific sequences to happen

#

Basically you can think of Akaari as a DoT that pandemics

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:31 PM

#

ye

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:31 PM

#

But gives full damage on the final partial tick

#

But certain sequences it's possible to not add an extra full tick

#

Mystler and I both brought this up way back in SL beta but they never changed it 😦

#

They could have changed it to extend rather than pandemic

#

But oh well

#

I think the sequences that case it are like triple SS Evisc SS and also SS Evisc SS Evisc SS Evisc according to some of the sheets Mystler did

#

So both kinda extreme bad and good luck cases

#

They should be rare but definitely possible

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:34 PM

#

yea, its quite rare i think

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:35 PM

#

Fuu I think said he was gonna look if there was some APL delay stuff we could do outside of Shadow Dance to get more ticks in with the 4pc. It's gonna be interesting. lol

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:35 PM

#

yea so 3 casts gets "munched" on a 5 min dummy log

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:36 PM

#

Although I think PV itself kinda naturally puts some gaps in

#

But will be more problematic when Evisc itself can refresh it

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:36 PM

#

^ PV potentially works rly well with 4p when playing akaari

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

ye thats gonna be awkward, to have that going on

#

bit weird to make it a dot that can just not work sometimes

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

Could just be Akaari doesn't do enough damage to hyper optimize around though idk

#

Although at this point I really think they should buff some of the Sub legendaries lol

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

akaari will get a slight buff from the 4p interation

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

bit too late for that it feels like

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

but outside of akaari it rly does look bad

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

they should just keep the horrible legendaries in mind when adjusting the tier set

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

I mean normally I'd kinda agree but their particular choice of legendary mechanics for 9.2 has made it a little more relevant I think for all the specs to have at least a couple options

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

sub only has 3 legendaries anyway

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

Was nice that Sub got rescued by the Covenant ones but that is back to not mattering as much 😛

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

3 trash legendaries, hooray

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

Akaari is also really easy for them to tune now that it's a distinct spell

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

2 incredibly boring

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

They literally could just make Akaari a 6% legendary in 5 seconds 😛

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

yea ofc

#

its not hard to tune finality either

#

i think

#

rotten is a bit harder

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

they could put rotten back to 3 secs

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

Finality is maybe more complex inasmuch as it could potentially interact with something? But it's not crazy complex either

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

would also make it quite a bit stronger

buoyant gyro Dec 18, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

Still fairly straightforward

#

Rotten definitely is harder

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

i mean they can just buff the damage increase on it

#

thats fairly linear

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

could break things in pvp

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

i assumed that one was added for tuning purposes

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

rotten is already quite good for pvp

#

cus of the burst

#

but uhh

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

i mean pvp mod is easy to put in

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

i dont think we have optimized rotten either, its prob something you can play around more than the apl is doing atm but thats hard to tell i guess

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 4:44 PM

#

there could be optimizations for pv

#

but the low duration does kind of limit other optimizations

delicate osprey Dec 18, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

the buff itself lasts 30 secs problem is that it gets consumed by both strike and stab

#

you can play it as venth for more lashings and as kyrian with a predance for big stabby i guess

#

shame is when it wms as venth as you kinda lose a bit of value

mellow urchin Dec 18, 2021, 4:49 PM

#

big strike dmg tho

unkempt peak Dec 18, 2021, 5:45 PM

#

Damn I hope we see some legendary tuning before 9.2 drops, really does feel bad to be the spec with the poopy class legendaries, my main issue right now is Akaaris and finality are just boring because they don't actually impact or change anything outside of more damage, the rotten is neat, but with it only effecting the next SS or BS it is very easy to accidentally waste the CPs, and shadowdust has some neat interactions but they all just feel very underwhelming

#

And I doubt we will see any new legendaries get added, I feel like if they were gonna do that we would have heard something by now, I thought they would have tried to bag an easy win with the legendaries they added around argus time? The legendaries class rings that gave you an extra talent

potent vault Dec 18, 2021, 5:53 PM

#

buff deathly or give it some cdr

#

make it big for sub

livid ferry Dec 18, 2021, 6:14 PM

#

If they’re gonna nerf the set our leges need buffs

#

Thats just bottom line lol

#

Or were gonna suck

unkempt peak Dec 18, 2021, 6:16 PM

#

^^ they probably could do with buffing some leggos anyway - atm id hedge that we are above average / just above the middle of the pack, some classes have really good sets, covenant legendaries & class legendaries, our set is good no doubt, but it is very RNG, some pulls we might underperform just because we arent procing.

pale jetty Dec 18, 2021, 6:21 PM

#

rotten should be double charged

#

thats all im saying

wind furnace Dec 18, 2021, 6:22 PM

#

3 sec rotten was on beta

pale jetty Dec 18, 2021, 6:22 PM

#

or if they wanna make it more synergistic, make it echo the strike/bs damage ontop of enhancing it

#

but that introduces even more shadowstrikes and backstabs

#

yeah idk our beta legendaries were infinitely better

unkempt peak Dec 18, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

I mean, the legendaries just don't really feel legendary, they are either weak effects for passive damage buffs, half of them were either ripped from old set bonuses or the artifact weapon, not a whole lot of effort seemed to be put into them

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

Necrolordhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8jf8a6H7sSZZVABpGJrXTe
(pls check the sim, the picture is out of date)

#

Night Fae: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/31zpVzHSWPbJfvHLvh7efG
(pls check the sim, the picture is out of date)

#

Venthyr: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ah16cNZHTKaHTMsU1MiJSc
(pls check the sim, the picture is out of date)

#

Kyrian: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t6SC2RcnsDoPLXYDLcVYVt
(pls check the sim, the picture is out of date)

#

Legendary combinations:
Necrolord: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iRb9aVsQYzBEc156XTX1DY
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938704422710706186/unknown.png

Night Fae: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vATbJkr8pTdHB3UE3oWF6w
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938704030564249670/unknown.png

Venthyr: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nFeHbWrR3mmqUA7LbGVLzq
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938704208268525620/unknown.png

Kyrian: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/diDazSrGcpXMH7qiespTgx
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938703837076807730/unknown.png

Comparison with best legendary combination:
sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ujBXLXVrF8ctG52Rw6Aqbo/simc
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/533270681845104672/943039868290879508/unknown.png

delicate osprey Dec 19, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

man deathspike is as sad as ever eh

#

funnily enough we may play necrolord on some bosses the cleave is quite potent

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

Its interessting to see rotten still holding up to akaari

#

whats nice

delicate osprey Dec 19, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

yea rotten on venth is quite a lot of value

#

getting 7 lashes always is very potent

#

also with high blades uptime chances are you can sneak the SoD strike or backstab into a blades one for big gains

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 12:05 PM

#

btw. did you see my 3 target change ^^

#

#916284169057878037 message

delicate osprey Dec 19, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

nani

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 12:08 PM

#

need to double check if akaari changes anything for it, but unlikely

#

(the akaari fix)

delicate osprey Dec 19, 2021, 12:10 PM

#

well it does help the 4pc is proccing aakari

#

that makes it quite potent as it builds from itself

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

Akaari fix value change:
Venthyr: 3.7% -> 4.0%
Night Fae 4.0% -> 4.3%
Necrolord: 4.2% -> 4.5%
Kyrian: 4.2% -> 4.6%

#

so average around .3%

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 5:07 PM

#

#buffourleggos

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 5:41 PM

#

yep

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 5:45 PM

#

they should consider that if they change the tier set

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 5:46 PM

#

They wont tho

hoary zephyr Dec 19, 2021, 5:47 PM

#

Bro

#

Cant wait for Proto fight

#

Esp 3rd phase

#

4 target cleave

#

God damn

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 5:48 PM

#

4 target cleave

#

or "lets better play assassination"

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 6:08 PM

#

Sub will be good for equalizing their health bars copium

#

When your monkey raidmates don’t focus high ones

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 6:24 PM

#

potentially, still not sure if subtlety is the play

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 6:25 PM

#

If you wanna go for max dam necro outlaw could be it lol

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 6:25 PM

#

assassination with the tier set looks incredible on cleave

#

just my first impression

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 6:26 PM

#

Also if ritualist adds are a factor on M subs the best at that part of the fight

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 6:28 PM

#

i hope best for sub tbh, would like it to stay as relevant as it was this tier

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 6:29 PM

#

From what I’ve seen they’re trying to design most of these raid fights with many niches in mind

#

So it’ll probably end up like this patch where you can play whatever you want

#

As long as tuning stays similar

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 6:30 PM

#

sounds good

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 6:32 PM

#

But I have a feeling tuning is gonna not be good for us lol

#

Especially since scarizard works on the sets, not other things class related

#

So I think chances of lege buffs are slim to none

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 6:41 PM

#

i hope you are wrong and they pull off some tight last minute tuning, but i have a feeling you are right

hoary zephyr Dec 19, 2021, 6:47 PM

#

wind furnace assassination with the tier set looks incredible on cleave

Yeah very true but sin also is gonna get retuned for sure

#

I genuinely believe that the sin set will be nerfed more than a sub getting a nerf

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 6:48 PM

#

sin can funnel very well

#

and has a higher burst than sin atm

#

but at also a lower rate, so less dynamic

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

@wind furnace do you think sub will see any tuning before 9.2 or do you think its just a little wishful thinking?

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 8:28 PM

#

Blizzard has created a problem for themselves

#

with the 2x legendaries

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:29 PM

#

blizz love making problems for themselves though XD

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:30 PM

#

i think both is controllable

#

in terms of impact

#

just needs enough time

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

I think they only followed through with it because Ion basically promised that you would equip two legendaries at some point this expansion. But i do think the legendary issue would have been bigger if it wasnt 1 cov 1 class, if you could use any you wanted the balancing would have been all thrown off

#

more than it already is

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:31 PM

#

game would have been better off without 2x lege

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

100%, instead of letting us equip two, i would have enjoyed seeing something along the lines of, upgrading the ability of an existing legendary? like some lore thing of now that the primus has all his memories back he can unlock the full potential of your legendary powers

#

maybe adding like an extra sub effect to the power

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:33 PM

#

nah

#

just a different system or something

#

issue with legendaries is

#

theres specs getting 25% from a lege

#

soem getting 10

#

some getting 3

#

and in blizzards eyes thats okay

#

upgrading legendaries isn't gonna help the system

#

the broken effects will just get more broken

#

and the shitty effects will stay shitty

#

its the problem with having specs having varying baseline dps outputs with no borrowed power

#

Sub rogue baseline output is actually one of the highest, meaning the borrowed power its going to get is going to be low impact

#

usually unfun effects etc

#

like akaari, finality 🙂

#

cov legendaries remedied this for us a bit

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:40 PM

#

i have some fears:
#1 that t21 repeats and the tier set proc chances are rly low
#2 that tier sets get tuned but legendary powers don't
#3 assassination gets tuned to high in burst and numbers, making subtlety not played

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:40 PM

#

I think both your fears will come to fruition

#

I think their only real worry legendary wise right now is covenants having 0 dps ST legendaries

#

which is why we see changes/buffs to some covenant legendaries

#

such as Death Knight cov legendaries, kyrian mage legendary

#

but I very highly doubt spec legendaries will see any buffs/nerfs

#

(unless they have some extremely broken interaction with a tier set)

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 8:42 PM

#

Priest Fae legendary monky

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:42 PM

#

I foresee us being an extremely mediocre spec in 9.2

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:42 PM

#

tbh i like to think of it positively

#

and assume the dev team did upgrade in terms of numbers and ask back with simc devs or community people who have connections to them

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

copium

#

unfortunate reality is scarizard is tier set person

#

nothing to do with our class

#

unless he specifically communicates to balance ppl

#

nothing will happen

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

in the end, most specs are fairly well represented in simc, so the data can be used

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 8:43 PM

#

massive COPIUM

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:44 PM

#

i know some specs arn't but i guess they have their (even tho stupid) reasons for that

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:44 PM

#

we have all of january and february left

#

maybe we'll see some good stuff

#

copium copium copium

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:45 PM

#

i mean, we will see how things develop

grave peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:49 PM

#

it won't be a sin tier copium

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 8:50 PM

#

tbh even tho assassination was not the best choice in this xpac

#

it always was rly good

#

blizz buffed it to be the best choice in the first raid after being heavily undertuned initially

#

and the frost set makes it this tier close to equal

#

play rate between subtlety/assassination is almost 50/50

#

to be clear, i want rogue to be good, but there is (after 5 years of subtlety being in a bad position) always the thought of competition cross specs

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:58 PM

#

having all 3 specs be good is nice ye

#

ppl can do whatever they want

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 8:59 PM

#

5 years of sub being a bad raid spec? eh 9 months is enough of them being good... back to the dumpster.

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 8:59 PM

#

5 years is exaggerated

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 8:59 PM

#

they kinda of pinned themselves into a corner with the sub tier set

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:00 PM

#

it wasnt awful in NH, it was OP in tomb, it was decent in Antorus

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:00 PM

#

both effects are rng, so not very fitting, and balancing RNG effects is tricky

#

nerf the proc rate and it feels like youre playing without a set most of the time

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 9:01 PM

#

atbt was released 2017

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:02 PM

#

winter 2017

#

4 years ago

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:02 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/savingprivateryan-ww2-old-soldier-matt-damon-gif-4203998

Tenor

Matt Damon Aging

▶ Play video

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:03 PM

#

ye afaik legion wasn't an awful time

#

bfa is a different story though

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:03 PM

#

and before legion

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:03 PM

#

sub was just entirely ignored and forgotten after the bfa nerfs

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:03 PM

#

it was really good in wod

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:04 PM

#

i loved the way sub played in wod

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 9:05 PM

#

legion was rleeased 2016

#

legion had 1 tier subtlety was good, what means you are factually correct

#

also if you count in zul we move even further down and it becomes even lower in terms of time

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:05 PM

#

1 tier?

#

its not like sub was unplayable in NH or antorus

#

#

this is NH

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

only 5th?

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

#

EN

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:07 PM

#

absolutely unplayable

#

if not first then uplayable

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:08 PM

#

mellow urchin

look at parse amounts KEK

#

fuckin

#

10 times the assa logs

#

insane

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 9:08 PM

#

EN

#

NH

#

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:09 PM

#

its like fucking fire mage and arcane mage

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 9:09 PM

#

Sadge

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:09 PM

#

ppl just play fire mage by default

wind furnace Dec 19, 2021, 9:09 PM

#

mellow urchin its not like sub was unplayable in NH or antorus

oh absolutely

#

subtlety was always okay-ish

#

it wasn't terrible in all the tiers it was barely played

#

so, you are correct. saying it was bad is probably wrong

#

i should have worded it towards play rate

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 9:10 PM

#

as long as its fine to 1 trick without inting

#

its fine

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 9:16 PM

#

copium

#

9.2 is gonna be castle nathria repeat

#

people hyped about some sub rogue borrowed power, it gets shot down, spec is super mid

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 9:33 PM

#

If rogue don’t have a top 4 Dps spec it’s a mid class pepechortle negative utility go brrrr

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 9:59 PM

#

i mean even if rogue is mid tier, basically any spec above mid tier that brings utility makes rogue defunct, thats the issue with playing a spec that has no utility, looks like they also dropped that whole bringing back smoke bomb real quick, havent even mentioned it since 9.1

#

when we live and die by tuning it gets a little worrying when you dont see much tuning being done

steel meadow Dec 19, 2021, 10:00 PM

#

ill just say, difference between sub with and without boots in EN was 40%

coarse quiver Dec 19, 2021, 10:04 PM

#

unkempt peak i mean even if rogue is mid tier, basically any spec above mid tier that brings ...

they never mentioined smoke bomb for 9.2, that was 100% a community exaggeration

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 10:06 PM

#

not for 9.2, but i remember either back when they were talking about 9.1 or 9.1.5 (cant remember which) some of the interviews with devs mentioned that they know rogue has no utility and that they were looking into some ways to help fix that

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:06 PM

#

i can say that there was meant to come rogue utility in 9.2

#

but it was pushed to 10.0

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:07 PM

#

Sadge

unkempt peak Dec 19, 2021, 10:07 PM

#

oof

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:08 PM

#

ye fuck smoke bomb tho

#

dont want some shit circle

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:10 PM

#

I’d take it drs are op peeposhrug

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:10 PM

#

nah they need to go away from dps having raid wide defense cd's

#

bad

#

bad bad bad

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:11 PM

#

the utility we are getting (hopefully) in 10.0 is not a DR or smokebomb

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:11 PM

#

Eh I’d prefer something that makes multiple rogues viable

#

If it’s just something like arcane intellect it’s still 1 rogue

#

Where as battle shout makes warrior great even with multiple

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

rally is overdue for gutting lol

#

just like AMZ

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

Needa usurp those bitch ass warriors as king melee

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

amz just got a very bright spotlight

#

in CN

#

rally keeps getting by silently

#

when its a busted button

#

but all of these defense buttons should just be stripped off all the dps classes lol

#

and only be on their tank spec brothers

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:13 PM

#

I want the triple rogue meta prayge

#

Without soakgeras

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

unless rally saves someone from a 1-shot its not doing anything and can even sometimes be deceptive copium

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

Idc if it’s a dr or a battle shout type ability give it to me kekw

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

mellow urchin unless rally saves someone from a 1-shot its not doing anything and can even som...

good one

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

it is true tho

#

rally is not a heal

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

pipe down noob

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

just a temporary hp increase

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

rally is literally broken

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

that goes away

#

your health is reduced

#

by the same amount you got

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:14 PM

#

broken button

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

Yea but you can use it with raid cds or as a raid cd and use less healer ones

#

Which is op

mellow urchin Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

you should only use it on potential 1 shots

#

and to survive big burst aoe dmg

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

Soulrender chains, kel spikes etc

#

Guardian aoe

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

broken button

winged fiber Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

Like rally is just nuts

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:15 PM

#

idc what ppl say lol

#

its literally just way too powerful

#

ideally all this shits just stripped off dps tho

#

not even nerfed

#

just gone

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:16 PM

#

idk, I'd rather they just give other classes utility that's also useful

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:16 PM

#

nah lol

#

cause then its bring class not the player

#

bring the class meta is really trash

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:17 PM

#

not like %stat buffs or whatever but active abilities

#

bring class meta is stat buffs

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:17 PM

#

and then theres the problem of having your utility just be weaker than the other peoples utility

#

kekg

#

so then were in the same situation

#

you have utiltiy

#

except its just trash

#

so youre still not brought

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:18 PM

#

bye bye warlock gate i guess?

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:18 PM

#

they either need to alter how the game mechanically works cooldown wise, where stacking the same cooldown is just not effective

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:18 PM

#

vestal geyser bye bye warlock gate i guess?

warlock gate should just be something you purchase

#

or profession can make it

#

etc

#

same with summoning lmao

#

stop giving classes just mandatory shit

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

summoning 100% could get behind that

#

gate i'm fine being class specific, cuz you can work around it

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

well

#

I dont think anyone killed Sire without gate

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

it's nuts, but if you don't have it you're not screwed

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:19 PM

#

so you really cant work around it

#

you bring a warlock

#

how do you do painsmith pre nerf without gates

#

without warlock*

#

you bring all night fae mages?

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:20 PM

#

warlock is also a very popular class so like a 20 person raid is just very likely to have one anyways

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:20 PM

#

sure but its also just a mandatory class kekg

#

maybe thats why its so popular

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:21 PM

#

livid ferry maybe thats why its so popular

omegakekW

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:21 PM

#

people play it cause they know it'll be brought 100%

#

same with mage

#

ranged caster with mandatory button

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:21 PM

#

u know how many warlocks have to be reminded 10 times for cookies/gates/summons

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:21 PM

#

ye, everyones warlocks have to be reminded

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:22 PM

#

ya, cuz they're playing it because it's a 3 dps spec class that historically always has at least 1 spec that is doing well

#

i'd rather there just be more cool buttons for ppl to press rather than taking other people's cool buttons away

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:23 PM

#

Idk, none of the buttons are really “cool” either lol

#

5% buff here and there wowzer

#

Circle on the ground take less dmg

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:23 PM

#

not the buff ones

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:23 PM

#

Poggerooo

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:23 PM

#

buff ones suck

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:24 PM

#

Give rogue some passive thing that makes it so they stop melee from getting parried

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:25 PM

#

active ones you get to feel like you're more useful to the raid as a whole when u press them, especially if they're something you plan around IE Rally, AMZ

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:25 PM

#

Idk none of those buttons are cool to me

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:25 PM

#

so ya it's not a cool individual moment, but it can make players feel more useful to their group

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:26 PM

#

Id rather they make an environment where skilled players get brought

#

Instead of having like over half your raid roster already filled out

#

By stupid debuffs and dr’s

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:26 PM

#

debuffs and buffs are cringe

#

active abilities are nice

#

like the 5 required slots of Monk, DH, Priest, Warr, Mage is stupid

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:27 PM

#

Defensive raid utility should only exist on tanks

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:27 PM

#

but having Raid cds like Rally and AMZ, or gateways is interesting

#

Blizz has been making more encounters where gateways have been mandatory tho

#

if they want to do tht I'd be fine with them making it not Warlock specific

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:31 PM

#

Idk

#

i guess were just different people

#

i see absolutely nothing interesting in being a purple bubble boy

#

and you just drop your purple bubble at the same moment every pull

#

wow im so useful look at me guys

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:31 PM

#

lol

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

same with darkness

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

i can understand that

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

just drop oil spill on ground

#

so interesting

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

fuck darkness on sylv tho

#

literally can't tell where the pools are dropping

#

am i standing in a pool rn? idk guess i'll stay here for a second and find out pepehonk

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

funny thing is vengeance the spec that should have darkness

#

doesnt have it

#

LUL

vestal geyser Dec 19, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

tht is pretty cucked

#

meanwhile blood DKs are over there getting a better version of AMZ omegakekW

livid ferry Dec 19, 2021, 10:35 PM

#

sleepypeepo

unkempt peak Dec 20, 2021, 2:54 AM

#

@mellow urchin with the inside scoop on 10.0, is it true that sub is getting reworked because blizzard hate sub in its current state?

livid ferry Dec 20, 2021, 2:56 AM

#

probably the opposite

#

they probably love sub like it is

#

non problematic spec

buoyant gyro Dec 20, 2021, 3:09 AM

#

Rework Balance Druid resources and rework Shadow Priest for the 5th time in 3 xpacs obviously

livid ferry Dec 20, 2021, 3:17 AM

#

Constant shadow dance means low burst

#

No shuriken combo

#

No worries for blizz lol

delicate osprey Dec 20, 2021, 3:48 AM

#

also introduce more finishers and make them not work with mastery

#

100rogue

#

inb4 next expansion we also get recuperation again for energy

#

you liked that right everyone !!==!!??

unkempt peak Dec 20, 2021, 4:28 AM

#

oh shit you are right, i forgot, while other classes get reworked every expansion we get to keep the same dead talents year after year 😉

mellow urchin Dec 20, 2021, 9:12 AM

#

unkempt peak <@!153289634909126656> with the inside scoop on 10.0, is it true that sub is get...

If blizzard hated how its playing rn they wouldnt try keep it relevant

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

I would love to hear a opinion about the state is specs from the dev team

#

Assumptions about that were always based around changes they made

mellow urchin Dec 20, 2021, 11:37 AM

#

@wind furnace from ptr set sim

#

why is the bot playing like a nub

#

it eviscerates pre-dance

#

and then ruptures in dance 3 seconds later

#

isnt that a quite clear (move rupture to pre-dance) mistake?

#

another potential thing, it gets a 4p proc on the anima cp evis

#

and instead of just eviscerating at 3 again (cus it has anima cp 3 up)

#

it backstabs

#

also you should really look at this

#

why isnt it delaying that backstab for 1 second and then symbols into 6 stacked PV

#

there must be some way to make it play around PV and symbols 100% crit when possible

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 12:19 PM

#

mellow urchin <@!194804407706189824> from ptr set sim

sry, just came home, giveme some secs and i can take a look at the sequence

#

could you link me the sim pls, so i can look at the apl condition triggers

mellow urchin Dec 20, 2021, 12:29 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f26x8cp6ak15BA8W2Z4sAw/simc

Raidbots

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 12:41 PM

#

Its a good question

#

because it shouldn't

#

first rupture application is at 3 sec with a 24 sec rupture.

#

okay, just to evaluate why the sim behaves this way

#

symbols is still on cooldown till 32, this makes the "early refresh" not trigger at 25

#

rupture is probably just not in pandemic range at this point, this is why it didn't refresh

#

preventing rupture casts in dance was also not generally a damage win, hence its still allowed but very rare due to the usual early refresh

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hB3syK99zNRuZNhcaE5dtE/simc

#

testing a condition that would prevent it is not a damage win given that it is an outliner (triggers 0.16 times on average)

mellow urchin Dec 20, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

ok but when we do log reviews

#

we tell ppl to rupture earlier, no?

#

even tho its not in pandemic yet?

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

tier set does not seem to change it:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i1pNiDif7FpzjmiYY3WYgf/simc

Raidbots

#

it seems fine as a suggestion in this case, its damage neutral

#

for log reviews, the suggestion is to refresh rupture in preparation for a symbols cycle

#

that usually does mean the last finisher before symbols comes up

#

the distance was a bit longer in the example

#

potentially a change that would be relevant for hero-rotation, not sure if its that important for the baseline apl given that it adds complexity for only marginal gain in a more consistent sample sequence

#

ill keep it in mind for now, maybe i come back to it and see if i find a easy way to incorporate it in the rupture condition.

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:14 PM

#

mellow urchin why isnt it delaying that backstab for 1 second and then symbols into 6 stacked ...

that is a good question, its because there is no optimization done for this special case

#

apl atm only looks at the stack count to evaluate whether to use backstab or not

#

adding a exception for this might be relevant, should be fairly simple

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:33 PM

#

sim:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uZxzu7rsfiX76g3PfK84iq

#

it should fix this behaviour but its not a damage win, might need to consider energy too

#

with considering energy, but thats within target error and will likely do bs in the mentioned case above hence energy was at 90
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hnm5AbE3G4jfB14bpq7Rqc

#

for the er change, i did play around for half an hour or so with it but there are likely some optimizations

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

what change are you doing

#

cuz you can do this

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5o7cHjysb1knLMZShVdB8D

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 13,331 DPS - Raidbots

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:40 PM

#

last one i posted just restricts backstab to not cast when you have high stacks of pv and symbols comes up very soon

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:41 PM

#

oh I was talking about the rupture one

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:41 PM

#

i do know that some profiles do get slight dps gains if you restrict rupture use in the skip_rupture variable

#

its just not a universal win, koji had it at a loss for some profiles iirc

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:41 PM

#

I just added a not in dance condition

#

and its better to let rupture fall rather than applying it in dance

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:42 PM

#

i usually do a stealthed.all instead of buff.shadow_dance.up, but it seems def. relevant

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

also you can check the backstab things I posted last week and go from there

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:44 PM

#

i did work on moroes majority of yesterday

#

but i had a look at the backstab condition, its basically the finish condition

#

i wanted to put it in a universal condition to cover both bs and gloomblade

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:44 PM

#

ye thats fine, I am just saying you can look at it as a reference if you do something on it

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:45 PM

#

but did not get it to work similarly well with using wait

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

I was just modifying the backstab condition so it only backstabs 'when it makes sense' and it is waiting naturally cuz backstab is at the bottom anyways

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

i saw that ^^

#

its basically the finish condition for er

#

with a added energy condition if i remember correct

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

yea, something like that

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:47 PM

#

rupturing in dance def. is also somehting i would like to have as a general rule

#

its a lot simpler to understand

#

something not to forget is that if you want to condition it in skip_rupture you also need to add a spell target condition as it will be worse in low target simulations

#

e.g. on 3 targets: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9mVT5tPWj6A47npuhkjfp7

#

the main reason its not default is the rupture in the opener during dance

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:57 PM

#

I didn't add it in the skip rupture condition

#

I added it in the one below

#

actions.finish+="/rupture,if=!buff.shadow_dance.up&(!variable.skip_rupture|variable.use_priority_rotation)&target.time_to_die-remains>6&refreshable"

#

but yea, a target condition is probably needed

#

also I 'think' this might be a kyrian thing, haven't tested venthyr

mellow urchin Dec 20, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

cant you just

#

make it not apply that logic on multiple targets

#

i dont see the problem

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

adding it to that line might be good

#

because it would not interfear with the multidot line

quartz idol Dec 20, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

mellow urchin make it not apply that logic on multiple targets

you can yea

wind furnace Dec 20, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

mellow urchin make it not apply that logic on multiple targets

yes, that is the reason i mentioned it

#

not rupturing in dance seems to be mostly within .1% dps

#

with the 4 covenant profiles

#

highest simming one was necrolord:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hruW5J51XxHAMxWjf2oYe3

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 10,662 DPS - Raidbots

#

with a .2% win

#

i will ask koji to run it through some of his profiles as he often gets slightly different results

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

should we artificially nerf the tier set in sims and try what comes out, not sure how relevant that would be

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

things they could do

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

(also not sure what is possible with spell data)

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

reduce duration of 2p

livid ferry Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

Go for it if you want

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

reduce % of proc on t4

#

both of those are awful and boring

#

but the easiest to do

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

i hope proc chance reduction is the last resort

#

because i feel like its the worse way to change the power level

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

but i think they wont change set that much as seen on the desolate state of legendaries

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

healthier approaches would be to lower shadow strike damage, or reduce cp cost, reduce duration of shb proc etc.

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

unless they buff/dance legendaries and cov abilites with some fixes

#

like making bokespike be affected by blades

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

whisp seems very confident about sin getting nerfed

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

or making sepsis stronger

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

and sin overall pulls lower numbers

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

sin just goes crazy on the 3 4 target cleave

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

i mean its kinda obviouse

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

as they all can have the bleeds that double dip etc

#

with deathspike

#

on 2 globals then the 4 garrotes and ruptures etc

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

if you increase the damage by 100% of a noticable amount of your total damage abilities

#

it will be strong

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

also note that while in vendetta that will have like 50% uptime or so with dusk

#

and the bug that maybe it's a feature

#

bleeds are faster too

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

i am all for keeping such bugs

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

it is really neat

#

just balance around it

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

but i am not sure its easy to understand for new players

#

so confliced

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

i mean im not one to talk i loved sprint vanish

#

and everyone hated it

#

nowadays you cant recognize a player easily by their skill

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

i did like it too

#

but i think thats just a subtlety thing

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

just who procs harder

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

to like hard to execute rewarding things

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

i also liked surrender to madness

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

what iteration of it kekw

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

first one

#

i did play sp in that tier

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

was a bit over the top for my taste

delicate osprey Dec 22, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

as an alt that became main kekw

proud rover Dec 22, 2021, 6:10 PM

#

Not bad for 10ish tries

#

I thinking about maining rogue at least for M+

#

Feral gets no love

plucky storm Dec 22, 2021, 6:17 PM

#

proud rover

What is this?

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 6:18 PM

#

https://www.wowhead.com/item=130322/mask-of-artful-dodging?bonus=0

Wowhead

Mask of Artful Dodging

This epic leather armor of item level 32 goes in the "Head" slot. Requires Rogue. It is looted from Thistle Tea. Added in World of Warcraft: Legion.

#

popular transmog item

plucky storm Dec 22, 2021, 6:18 PM

#

Hmmm

#

That’s not 9.2

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 6:19 PM

#

its #transmog actually 😛

proud rover Dec 22, 2021, 6:19 PM

#

Aah yeah you're right

#

I was just so happy to share, I'll post it in TM next time mb

wind furnace Dec 22, 2021, 6:19 PM

#

well gz 🙂

proud rover Dec 22, 2021, 6:19 PM

#

Wait I'm in a thread even

#

Haha 😅

#

Ty

wind furnace Dec 30, 2021, 8:37 AM

#

I forgot to post it, sry.
I did look at backstab/gloomblade some days ago.
and apparently most of the damage gains from the optimizations comes from 2 anima combo points:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7MBddWTtgiw8m6Thn4kVx9
(optimizing backstab for anima charged cp)

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 12,767 DPS - Raidbots

#

(new is only with 2 cp, backstab with brain is the reference from ansie)

livid ferry Dec 30, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

Nice

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 1:19 PM

#

if we end up playing finality with rc that is quite good may be a bit more after getting more gear pog

#

although i still hope for our saviour venth or nf

livid ferry Dec 30, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

Finality dead

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

i hope we end up with something else quite a boring leggo

livid ferry Dec 30, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

We are playing akaari

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

oh for kyrian ye

#

idk why i was thinking about m+

#

when most of the trouble of backstabs is on st

livid ferry Dec 30, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

Gotta stop thinking about game in context of m+ that is meme content

#

Can run whatever the fuck in there

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

kek right

#

well it is the content i will play the most ahaha raid kinda fizzles out fast

#

the hunt for tertiaries still lasts tho

wind furnace Dec 30, 2021, 5:24 PM

#

finality might be the best all around option

#

but akaari is better on pure st

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 5:29 PM

#

now lets pray for more buffs to nf and necro

#

if they make sbs get affected by blades that would be sweet

#

they already buffed septic shock a lot

#

big bursto pog

wind furnace Dec 30, 2021, 5:32 PM

#

they would need to do spec specific buffs

#

necro is already quite good on outlaw/sin

#

NF also looks surprisingly good with current tier set numbers on assassination, tho that probably changes

#

(on assassination)

delicate osprey Dec 30, 2021, 5:33 PM

#

the thing about necro is they fixed it for sepsis but not for sbs

#

if necro had blades interaction even if st was kinda meh for cleave it would be super good

#

even for low target aoe

wind furnace Dec 30, 2021, 5:34 PM

#

the cp generation on necro isn't that great too

#

subtlety has some design choices that don't have a good synergy with it

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 12:03 AM

#

happy new waiting two weeks to get more news

silver stratus Jan 1, 2022, 5:36 AM

#

happy new no daggers year 😫

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 5:36 AM

#

Wrong channel bro

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 9:14 AM

#

delicate osprey happy new waiting two weeks to get more news

we can create our own news in the meantime 😛

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 9:25 AM

#

we may get trinkets and/or weapons next build too

#

lowkey hyped

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 9:31 AM

#

having access to more raid gear would be rly nice

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 9:34 AM

#

even maybe get the tier's real stats

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 9:34 AM

#

haha, maybe even the new effect dagger monkahmm

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 9:51 AM

#

nah its gonna be like 9.1 ptr

#

just drop dagger last 2 weeks

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 9:52 AM

#

kek just dont nerf it

#

imagine if the proc is cdr somehow like assurance of consequence

#

nut

#

i would even take a multistrike esque thing

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 9:53 AM

#

the proc only needs to be good enough to beat sylvanas daggers, it does not even need to be on the same power level

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 9:53 AM

#

would pair really well with sub's quite now that we have so much rng

#

spice it even more ahahaha

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 9:54 AM

#

hard to imagine us not using a sylv dagger in offhand for a large portion of the patch unless its nerfed

#

or the next dagger effect is even bigger

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 9:55 AM

#

rly comes down to the power level of the new dagger effect

#

issue remains that you need to get the new dagger

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 10:00 AM

#

Yep

#

thus is the issue of having really busted ass gear pieces

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 10:01 AM

#

one of our hunters finally got the bow last reclear

#

only 4 months in

#

pog

topaz merlin Jan 1, 2022, 12:15 PM

#

wind furnace issue remains that you need to get the new dagger

As long as it's not off the Jailer I'll be happy. Trying to get Heroic EoNs is soul crushing. So many wipes in PuGs.

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 12:21 PM

#

i only got 1 heroic edge before getting 2 mythic ones

topaz merlin Jan 1, 2022, 1:14 PM

#

I'm not a Mythic raider unfortunately.

#

Or at least. I would be if they let me off the bench.

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 1:17 PM

#

Do you think you're ready?

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 3:36 PM

#

i don't think that anyone needs to be afraid of mythic

#

pve in general is a lot about experience and practice. So its vital to allow people to practice

#

if there are issues in performance, it is a good starting point to find improvements

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

I think that anyone that feels the heroic difficulty no longer offers sufficient challenge to them should try and wet their feet at the mythic difficulties

tepid prawn Jan 1, 2022, 3:50 PM

#

but what to do if mythic difficulty no longer offers sufficient challenge?

#

hehe

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 3:51 PM

#

wait for the next mythic raid kekw

hoary zephyr Jan 1, 2022, 3:57 PM

#

wind furnace haha, maybe even the new effect dagger <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>

I don’t think we will have a new dagger

#

Dagger w/ an effect*

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

tepid prawn but what to do if mythic difficulty no longer offers sufficient challenge?

Then we're shit out of luck kekW

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

we got told already it's spoilered

hoary zephyr Jan 1, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

Who told us?

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

scari boi

hoary zephyr Jan 1, 2022, 3:58 PM

#

I don’t believe it

#

Okay well

delicate osprey Jan 1, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

just look at his posts what

hoary zephyr Jan 1, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

There will be a dagger but it’s effect is not gonna be as strong as the current one has in the tier

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

thats fine

#

the new effect does not need to be as good if its a effect dagger

#

just good enough to beat the sylvanas dagger

hoary zephyr Jan 1, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

Yeah

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

keep in mind there is still quite a bit of a itemlevel jump

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

How many itemlevels would a dagger have to have to beat the sylvanas dagger without an effect at all?

#

259 vs ?

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 4:17 PM

#

in offhand

#

we simmed with what was assumed to be the highest possible in the next raid

#

and it was still not worth to replace

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 4:19 PM

#

Ye I figured that, was more curious as to what it would look like without that limitation

wind furnace Jan 1, 2022, 4:20 PM

#

i haven't put up the itemlevel to see how high it would need to go

#

but probably still quite a bit higher, i think it wouldn't survive 2 tiers

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 7:08 PM

#

civic terrace I think that anyone that feels the heroic difficulty no longer offers sufficient...

I guess you don't remember week 1 sylvanas

#

where like only 50 guilds killed her 1st reset

#

Heroic*

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 7:09 PM

#

I feel like that wasnt because the boss was hard but rather because people were reluctant to try

#

Ye I was there

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 7:09 PM

#

nah people were definitely trying but she was just actually difficult

#

and also n top of that

#

her scaling was fucking fucked

#

there was a raid size threshold where it became significantly harder and staying under that was just way better

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 7:10 PM

#

shrug

Anyways first week raids arent an accurate reflection of the whole tier

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 7:10 PM

#

well early progression is like

#

how the raid is meant to be seen/experienced lol

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 7:11 PM

#

That is a matter of opinion

#

Not a fact

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 7:11 PM

#

Not really

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 7:11 PM

#

Okay well I don't really care to argue it with you

livid ferry Jan 1, 2022, 7:11 PM

#

progging a bunch of weeks in with weeks worth of m+ weeky caches and potential nerfs to the raid

#

youre going to have a vastly different experience than what people had the first weeks lol

#

thats not opinion thats fact

coarse quiver Jan 1, 2022, 11:15 PM

#

civic terrace I feel like that wasnt because the boss was hard but rather because people were ...

nah everyone was trying, my guild (at the time like world 140) spent literally all of monday night going into 5 am just to kill that bitch

#

i remember illidan was the most active id ever seen it with basically every guild online trying to kill her

civic terrace Jan 1, 2022, 11:34 PM

#

Okay idk. I didn't experience it that way

mellow urchin Jan 1, 2022, 11:52 PM

#

i know several hof guilds

#

that overtimed

#

to kill sylvanas week 1

delicate osprey Jan 2, 2022, 12:08 AM

#

same

#

my bois from reload/sloth dayraided whole 2 weeks of mythic

#

still proud of them this tier was quite competitive it seems

livid ferry Jan 2, 2022, 12:38 AM

#

You probably didn’t experience it that way because you probably didn’t see sylvanas week 1

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 12:50 AM

#

Indeed. I saw sylvanas week 2 by which time I had just about amounted the gear that people were trying it with in week 1 peeposhrug

mellow urchin Jan 2, 2022, 12:51 AM

#

it was also nerfed heavily

#

after week 1

#

cus of ppl complaining

#

for heroic at least

#

and they fixed the scaling bug

#

so ye, you did not just have more gear, you also fought a weaker boss

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 12:53 AM

#

What'd they change between week 1 and 2?

#

I don't recall hearing about any but I'll take your word for it

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 1:14 AM

#

Funny thing, reading through some old changes I found this https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/shards-of-domination-tuning-incoming/1024966

I totally forgot or never even got the information that shard sets bonuses weren't meant to grow in power at first

livid ferry Jan 2, 2022, 1:15 AM

#

week 1 version of the fight you would also coin flip wipe to bugs

#

we had a handful of wipes to going too fast so she would teleport to like 2 platforms away and Ruin

#

https://www.wowhead.com/news/normal-and-heroic-sylvanas-windrunner-tuning-nerfs-323370

Wowhead

Normal and Heroic Sylvanas Windrunner Tuning Nerfs

Blizzard has announced that Normal and Heroic Sylvanas Windrunner encounter is getting nerfed on the weekly reset!

#

also here is the tuning

#

July 13

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 1:19 AM

#

Ye I found it

livid ferry Jan 2, 2022, 1:20 AM

#

the day before there was also hotfixes

#

on bugs

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 1:22 AM

#

stage 3 timings is rather vague

#

Either way sure enough it was a different boss in literal week 1. What got us here in the first place though was me saying that people should try their hand at mythic after not finding any challenge in heroic. I don't think any of this disputes that, it sooner invigorates my statement since mythic Tara Eye and Nine are not very complex bosses compared to even todays heroic sylvanas

mellow urchin Jan 2, 2022, 1:53 AM

#

First 3 are usually always easier than heroic end boss

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 2:45 AM

#

I think that Nerzhul and Soulrender aren't a big leap from there, and at that stage you've already cleared half the raid before mythic starts showing its teeth with Painsmith.. which at this stage is just pepega compared to what it was

delicate osprey Jan 2, 2022, 2:56 AM

#

nerz and soulrender were very hard week 2

civic terrace Jan 2, 2022, 2:57 AM

#

Thats not the point

delicate osprey Jan 2, 2022, 2:57 AM

#

good thing you can outgear them quite easily

potent vault Jan 2, 2022, 3:11 AM

#

Week 2 they were a joke

#

Week 1 they didn’t fuck around

mellow urchin Jan 2, 2022, 3:21 AM

#

probably should have skipped the dom set rank scaling

#

raid could have been tightly tuned

unkempt peak Jan 2, 2022, 7:31 AM

#

makes me wonder how tightly tuned the last 3 bosses are gonna be for the whole raid having their 2 and 4 piece

wind furnace Jan 2, 2022, 9:08 AM

#

The raid will likely be overtuned because its easier to tune it down than vice versa

delicate osprey Jan 2, 2022, 10:01 AM

#

not really they surprise nerfed a lot of bosses this tier that were decently hard

#

that one was quite strange

wind furnace Jan 2, 2022, 10:03 AM

#

tbh i think blizz underestimate the impact of the domination set buff too

warm olive Jan 2, 2022, 10:20 AM

#

watch more sylv nerfs in a week WICKED

wind furnace Jan 2, 2022, 10:23 AM

#

its possible, but i don't think there won't be a lot of tuning for the current tier

warm olive Jan 2, 2022, 10:35 AM

#

i could see a few last nerfs come in

#

i wouldn't mind, i'm scared my guild doesnt' kill her LOL

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 2:46 PM

#

🤔 not sure when to expect a new build on ptr

#

bur probably not this week

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:05 PM

#

How do you come to this conclusion

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:08 PM

#

i might be incorrect on that but i think this week is still holidays.

#

somone who is more familiar on that topic pls feel free to correct me

mellow urchin Jan 3, 2022, 3:09 PM

#

i have thursday and friday off

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:09 PM

#

Not in the US

mellow urchin Jan 3, 2022, 3:09 PM

#

ye theres no workers rights in the US

#

so they dont have days off

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:09 PM

#

(Generally)

#

Kids going back to school this week, most workers back to work I assume as well

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:10 PM

#

oh, so there is potential to see a build this week then

mellow urchin Jan 3, 2022, 3:10 PM

#

today ppl work at least

#

and tomorrow

#

and wednesday

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:10 PM

#

Its california though who knows

#

Maybe they gave them an extra week

#

Personally dont think they can afford to take anymore off but

#

Up to them kek

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:14 PM

#

i don't mind 9.2 being late if it is not rushed

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:16 PM

#

9.2 needs to be very good

#

For their own sake

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:17 PM

#

if i am 100% honest

#

9.2 could be mediocre and it would be fine

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:17 PM

#

Don’t think so

#

Its final patch of the xpac so its gonna be long by default

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:18 PM

#

long by default, we have 8-11 months last patch usually

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:18 PM

#

If its also a shit patch they’re just gonna lose a lot of recurring players

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:18 PM

#

we now have 8 month content cycles

#

so its just like any other patch in sl

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:18 PM

#

Ye which means final patch will be even longer than usual

#

Gonna be some hfc shit

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:19 PM

#

i don't think they will delay the new xpac to 2023 or so

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:19 PM

#

We have nothing about new xpac lol

quartz idol Jan 3, 2022, 3:19 PM

#

did they say its actually last patch, they said its the end of the story

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:19 PM

#

I think they did

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:19 PM

#

its confirmed in a interview

#

iirc

#

10.0 will be the biggest chance to get players back

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:20 PM

#

I think if 9.2 is bad they will lose a lot of players that would usually come back at new xpac release

#

I think people will be discouraged and move on to something else

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:21 PM

#

the playerbase is already fairly low in 9.1.5

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:21 PM

#

Which is why i think blizzard is rolling out stuff like double legendaey

#

Which i dont think was meant to be a thing

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:21 PM

#

9.2 won't be a saving grail, there is no big feature that would bring back players

#

in contrast to 10.0

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:22 PM

#

There is a difference between bringing back players and giving people hope for 10.0

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:22 PM

#

10.0 will likely introduce cross fraction play, and restart the power creep that systems in sl added

#

also can improve on everything that exists and introduce new stuff

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:23 PM

#

copium

#

Introduce new stuff

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:23 PM

#

i mean... i am sorry for every m+ enthusiast, but i think dungeons this xpac just arn't good

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:23 PM

#

Dw fuu our 2nd to last row will still have alacrity and a dead nonfunctioning talent in it

#

Yes I agree

#

SL dungeons suck lol

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:24 PM

#

i mean it sound easy but what blizz needs to do is finally iterate on systems and improve them

#

instead of keeping them in a somewhat functional state

#

shadowlands for what its worth introduced a slightly better weekly chest system

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:25 PM

#

Its still ass

#

Feels like shit every week that isn’t like the first month or so

#

Gives some choice at least

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:25 PM

#

i mean, i would argue it feels better than the 1 chest system we had in bfa

#

so i see it as the one thing shadowlands improved on

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:26 PM

#

The weekly reward thing should have a lot more agency than it does

#

The weekly reward shouldn’t feel awful 9/10 times

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:32 PM

#

ideal system would not rely on drops, but drops are a core system of mmorpgs

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:34 PM

#

Ideally there would be some bad luck protection

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:34 PM

#

there is

#

problem is bad luck protection just makes your chance to drop items higher

#

but this also leads in a raid enviroment to drop patterns

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:35 PM

#

What bad luck protection does the vault have

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:35 PM

#

when people seemingly get drops around the same kills always

#

oh ye vault specific

#

it would be nice if you could target dungeons more easily

#

the loot table is just way to high for the vault to be reliable

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:37 PM

#

It would be nice if they made a system where you could exclude certain slots

#

Such as if you have a mythic ilvl piece already acquired

#

You can just opt out of getting loot in that slot

#

Since you most likely do not need an item for that slot

#

So you can progressively target items more and more

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:38 PM

#

tbh that seems rather complicated for the end user

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:38 PM

#

Not at all

#

Lol

#

If thats complicated for someone then idk how they pass high school

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

you need to keep track of what slot you opted out and so

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

You would just click a check box saying “exclude” next to Neck slot on some ui

#

Or whatever slots

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

i think raid loot can be easy fixed with bonus rolls

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

Not complicated at all

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:39 PM

#

and m+ could adopt the pvp loot system

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

#

Open vault, get ui, click what slots you dont want

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

#

both is fairly easy to understand

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:40 PM

#

Get reward

#

Be happy

#

M+ getting pvp loot system sounds trash

#

If you mean the ilvl scaling thing lol

#

They already have valor and complain because they can’t get max ilvl

#

So raid is still bis

#

M+ and raid have way more crossover players than pvp and others

#

Having m+ gear be exclusively bis for m+ sounds awful

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:41 PM

#

currency for gear

#

m+ already has the itemlevel locking to keystone master etc.

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:42 PM

#

But

#

Valor system already exists

#

Currency for gear

#

You just have to get the item

#

And upgrade it

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:43 PM

#

yes

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:43 PM

#

Being able to buy the item off a vendor wouldn’t change anything

#

Its just less grindly

#

But then you still have to go grind the dungeons for valor KEKW KEKW

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:43 PM

#

i mean you wouldn't need to grind one specific dungeon tho

#

but i agree, valor was a good change

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:44 PM

#

I guess thats like the one positive side effect

#

Idk I feel like my idea would drastically increase likelihood to obtain items you want as you progress through the patch

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:45 PM

#

being able to either ignore slots

#

or even better target slots

#

would def. make your chances to get what you want higher

#

maybe it would be better if you could select e.g. 3 slots instead of being able to ignore certain slots

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:47 PM

#

The idea of having a means to an end I think would be good lol

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:47 PM

#

i am with you, being in a endless grinding machine seems rly bad

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:48 PM

#

Also I think the return of bonus rolls would be well received but I don’t think it would last very long

#

Because you can just roll gold kekg kekg

#

and then you are either equally or even more mad

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:48 PM

#

bonusrolls would make sylvanas dagger a lot better

#

at least you would have 2 chances a week to get it (well 3 if we count vault)

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 3:55 PM

#

it would have been way more

#

as you could slam the saved ones

#

but still idk how they will tackle it next expansion

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:56 PM

#

Well I assume loot system is getting changed

#

Personal loot has been bad

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 3:57 PM

#

there are a lot of solutions, but i am unsure how insistent blizz is on keeping a the standard rpg drop system at the core of the game

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 3:59 PM

#

The current “rpg” system is quite shit

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

yea let's be honest i really really really dislike personal loot

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

If I wanted to be disappointed every week several times, I’d play a Korean MMO and have my gear shatter in front of my eyes when i go to upgrade it

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

ahaha yea those are rough

#

at least you can spend currency to get it bck

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

Thats essentially what WoW has

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:00 PM

#

on wow you are left disappointed the whole week

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

Vault is just a dice roll if you get something you really want

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

and even when you get the super item it's not happy because it's 2 months late

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

With a time investment attached

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:01 PM

#

wow has still the ages old rpg system of having a restricted % base loot system

#

so you can't get loot fast by repeating content within a short time due to lockouts

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:02 PM

#

i think the best rpg system is bosses dropping mats and you craft the gear

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:02 PM

#

and you can't get loot from anywhere else

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:02 PM

#

it makes everything make sense

#

apart from special weapons like sylv daggers and things that makes sense that they have

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:02 PM

#

i think materials feel less good

#

because you require extra steps to get what you want

#

and its essentially equal to currency

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:03 PM

#

But you can actually insure you get what you want

#

Rather than hope for rng to bless you

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:03 PM

#

but it makes it like actually an rpg gearing up to battle

#

not like oh this guy dropped some boots he had in his ass

#

gotta equip them

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:04 PM

#

it works in wow because people play a lot so they got multiple chances to get better

#

ofc. it only works well if there arn't specific items with a way to high power budget

#

this is why sylvanas dagger, domination gear and shards felt bad

#

having a small power budget diffrence from rng is overall fine

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

#

yea that is why mats to craft gear would have worked super fine

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:05 PM

#

if you can with enough time investment get power levels somewhat similar to others

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:06 PM

#

if it was limited to 3 items or so each week

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:06 PM

#

crafted gear is just like currency

#

you basically have a deterministic gear system that has no rng included

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:06 PM

#

but yea we will never see that in wow so no reason to talk about it tbh

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:06 PM

#

unless... crafting regrents are random

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:06 PM

#

better talk about master loot ever coming back

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:07 PM

#

i mean i would not say never

#

i would have thought that we never see cross fraction play, and yet it seems like something almost guaranteed in 10.0

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:09 PM

#

cross faction gameplay will be the little hammer to break in case of emergency

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:09 PM

#

Think thats already on its way lol

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:10 PM

#

it will be a super breath of fresh air tho

#

i have like 30 alliance chars

#

that im not playing rn

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:10 PM

#

i mean we still have realm and raid restrictions

#

and we have no idea how they implement it

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

Regardless it’ll still be nice lol

#

Being able to recruit from horde

#

Being able to m+ with horde

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

thats the thing

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

M+ alone will be nicer

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

you probably cant recruite from horde

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

it is super good because after HoF it breaks all thee barriers

#

you can actually scout so much

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

because you can't mythic raid with horde as alliance

#

raid restrictions

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:11 PM

#

Then whats the point WeirdU

#

Theres literally no point to the change then

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

more ppl for m+

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

If you cant raid with them

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

i think it was implied you could raid with them

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

you can in normal/heroic probably then

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

if they made that change

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

Not being able to raid with them sounds like the dumbest fucking waste of time change

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

it would be weird if they have realm restrictions

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

yea that one was a wash

wind furnace Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

but not apply them to cross fraction

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

let's think that faction restrictions get taken out

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:12 PM

#

How

delicate osprey Jan 3, 2022, 4:13 PM

#

realm ones are fine i think for the most part until they make a super change

livid ferry Jan 3, 2022, 4:13 PM

#

You literallt just let the people on the same realm raid with each other

#9.2 Feedback and Discussion