9.2 Feedback and Discussion | Ravenholdt | Page 4

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:33 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Cfqh2kitZC3TLsVfoEjjr

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 13,657 DPS - Raidbots

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looks like our estimate

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was pretty solid

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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ye

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giveme a sec ill do a run

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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Wats dis

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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71%

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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bro

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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tier set is enabled on raidbots now

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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this fucking blades uptime

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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shadow blades uptime

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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lmaop

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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thats CAP

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??????????????

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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no?

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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71%????????????????

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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thats with 4p procing it

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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oh ye

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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74% shadow blades cool

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:34 PM

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LOOOL

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:35 PM

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3 minute cd btw

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Pepega

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Next tier they are gonna make a set that gives pallies permanent wings

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:36 PM

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mellow urchin thats with 4p procing it

did you just put the strings in the pin

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instead of their respective pieces

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:36 PM

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no

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i went onto ptr

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and did /simc

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:36 PM

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oh ok

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:36 PM

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and ptr=1

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:36 PM

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mellow urchin

damn

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bro is literally in blades more than dance

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wtf is the damage profile on that

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:38 PM

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this dps distribution

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lmao

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:38 PM

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rofl

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:38 PM

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11.5k to 16.5k

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nice

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set btw

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:38 PM

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ah yes ofc

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a gaussian distribution

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5Head

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:38 PM

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Ugh

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Please no

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Someone pull that ripcord pls, save us

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:39 PM

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we arent getting a rework

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this is it for us lol

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:39 PM

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this is literally like

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unironic gaussian distribution on parses

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jfc

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:40 PM

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its not that rng copium

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:40 PM

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uhuh

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:40 PM

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its actually worse than i expected

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imagine being the 0.01% that gets 11.5k parse

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:41 PM

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Leave it to blizzard to crush your most conservative expectations

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:41 PM

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dude i already am unlucky as fuck

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:41 PM

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giveme a sec

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:41 PM

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now i have to find a confidence interval for how fucked my parses are

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jfc

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:42 PM

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running sim

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on all covenants

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:43 PM

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@mellow urchin does it tell you how many iterations in total

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:43 PM

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livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:43 PM

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kekg

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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5%

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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wtf

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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from ~3% dps variance to 5%

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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5% isn't a lot

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right?

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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5% is a lot

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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is it?

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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yes

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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its almost double

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the rng

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from current

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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well yea thats expected

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but im pretty sure other specs have way wilder variance lmao

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just baseline

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:44 PM

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i mean

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outlaw has 4%

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atm

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so 5% is "worse than outlaw"

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:45 PM

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oh

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yikes

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:45 PM

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isnt boomkin gonna go down in variance

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:45 PM

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letme quick pickture together the tier set gains

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:45 PM

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lets go boys dice roll gang kekg

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more RNG than outlaw gang

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:45 PM

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except somehow worse

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LOL

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:46 PM

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yep

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hilarious

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this is what we get ig

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:46 PM

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literally you can either hit 16k dps from lucking out

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or forget the tier set exists and be at 11k

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:46 PM

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sick bro

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dopamine casino

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:46 PM

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literally nothing you can do about it either kekT

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:46 PM

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serotonin slot machine

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:47 PM

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it'll be fun for a bit at the start ngl

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then it'll probably get really annoying

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:47 PM

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idk

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I prob wont care

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this just gives opportunity to shit on external users

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they low roll with their KA and look like ass hat

potent vault Dec 16, 2021, 6:48 PM

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waiting on the @wind furnace dps sims

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pepeCoffee

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:48 PM

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i high roll with pure log and dab

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:48 PM

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all a battle of rng now

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KA wont save them now

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:50 PM

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74.5 uptme on blades for me kekg

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 6:51 PM

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Wait, sub isn't even on that list? Is that ST? How is outlaw once again simming better for ST?

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:51 PM

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bro

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you gotta

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read the words and stuff

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my man

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 6:51 PM

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unkempt peak Wait, sub isn't even on that list? Is that ST? How is outlaw once again simming ...

that's dps variance friend

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for the current tier/patch

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outlaw has more rng into how much dps they deal

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for now

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:53 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9jCJZqWxt9beLi7iChevt6

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12.7k - necro
12.75 - night fae
13k - venthyr
13,3k - kyrian

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:53 PM

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my profile simmed 13761

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:54 PM

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i just replaced 4 set pieces

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:54 PM

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ye

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:54 PM

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everything besides legs

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but i didn't look at keeping dom sockets active or other stuff

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did you dissable dom sets?

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shadowlands.enable_rune_words="0"```

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:55 PM

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no

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thats prob why

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:56 PM

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could be diffrences in profile too

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its not optimized, i can run more sims later to do more optimized stuff

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but more important

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legendary combinations

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 6:56 PM

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ye

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lets see it

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finality alone sims worse for me than akaari

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but lets see if theres any busted synergy with rc

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peepopause

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@mellow urchin

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kekg

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94 overflow

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:20 PM

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the baseline is a bit scuffed

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because tier set items get switched in

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so its not actually the baseline

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:20 PM

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does someone know if sets uploaded with bugfixes already?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:20 PM

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yes

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the implementation assumes with bugfixes

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:20 PM

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thats nice

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:21 PM

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also potentially explains diffrences between it and ptr testing

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:24 PM

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are leges cooking fuu

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:25 PM

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i was eating something with my gf, but yes

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my plan is the following

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:25 PM

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livid ferry they low roll with their KA and look like ass hat

this is actually the best thing about the variance

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OMEGAKEKW

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:25 PM

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#1 sim lego combinations with only power

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:25 PM

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dab on all these kindred losers

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:25 PM

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#2 take the best lego powers and switch in the real legendaries for it

potent vault Dec 16, 2021, 7:27 PM

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I got a significant difference between kyrian akaari vs finality

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:27 PM

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is there a possibility to sim 2 leggos

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:27 PM

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thats what i am doing rn

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soon™️ results

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kyrian:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kGxYBhpiAYr1x8ct26ebzT

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keep in mind this is only the power, so not considering the slot, will do that after

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necrolord:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kVsyRVa31c3vf6gD9kN9wK

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oh rip

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necro is using akaari baseline

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XD

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so giveme a sec to change that

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:30 PM

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ight

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akaari on top for kyrian just as i presumed

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:30 PM

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necrosub OMEGAKEKW

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:31 PM

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deathspike OMEGAKEKW

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:31 PM

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Venthyr
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wUKCLDbSYTSaR8FGHBfrpt

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:32 PM

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what happened to dust

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tf

vestal geyser Dec 16, 2021, 7:32 PM

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Rotten monkaOMEGA

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:32 PM

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Night fae
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nDa8igzgJ8ooZwEdpf1PQ5

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:33 PM

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rotten gang

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wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:34 PM

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dust looks a lot less potent in those sims

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but rotten stonks

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:35 PM

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ye what ahppened

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to dust

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:35 PM

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there was no apl change

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:36 PM

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wait ns doesnt affect flag damage

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:36 PM

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so potentially just something that was more relevant due to how the estimate was implemented

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:36 PM

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this should be a bug right

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:36 PM

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Necrolord
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hMeKuK4BCEVf3NxFsVq4if

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:37 PM

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rip in pepperonis

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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top combinations:
kyrian + akaari with 13.87k dps
venthyr + rotten with 13,64k dps
night fae + akaari with 13,267k dps
necrolord + akaari with 12,76k dps

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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the diff between kyrian and venthyr is basically just daggers

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i assume they're actually =

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minus sylv daggers

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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possible

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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assuming the new weapon in raid isn't tied to CP spending

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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what if we add random high ilvl mainhand instead of sylvanas dagger

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:38 PM

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but its just similar as it is now

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just that venthyr comes closer to kyrian

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wonder how well both interact with higher itemlevel on gear

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:39 PM

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Venthyr is an even bigger slot machine than kyrian probably lmao

vestal geyser Dec 16, 2021, 7:41 PM

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with the set bonus oh god

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:43 PM

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would make sense

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if you have larger hits you will have higher randomness

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venthyr dmagae distribution

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kyrian one

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to be fair, venthyr has a more engaging distribution

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

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venth with rotten

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

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yes

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

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is prayge gonna be such nice gameplay

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guaranteed 30 stack

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every time

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oy vey

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

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i mean

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you probably have 30 stacks most of the times on venthyr

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

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yea with blades rng

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:47 PM

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as much as i played in raid tests, u almost always have 30 stacks

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u have so much shit that can proc

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something always procs

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:47 PM

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winged fiber yea with blades rng

4pc rng lol

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:48 PM

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either u will get 4pc proc or wm proc or blades proc

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any of this will be enough

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 7:49 PM

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ye i definitely felt like rotten was gonna be big

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:49 PM

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(and i played with NS, wanted to test it)

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 7:49 PM

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for venth

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 7:49 PM

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livid ferry 4pc rng lol

oh true

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easy 40 stack flags

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OMEGAKEKW

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:50 PM

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hmm

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 7:51 PM

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so it's 18k burst vs 22k burst

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:51 PM

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possible that you can be a bit more loose with flag and still get full flag

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:52 PM

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ns sims 70 dps less than sf

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besad

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:52 PM

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thats not a lot

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:52 PM

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i mean ive just acknowledged, flagellation damage is not affected by ns

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i think ns is the biggest hidden power, once we will get more stats and will be able to put some more into haste

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:54 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9VhwngF5S1hwYt7NFBKdEU

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tbh this is rly not bad

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:54 PM

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is this with rotten?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:54 PM

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yes

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:55 PM

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try to switch mh dagger to any other

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banshees blight doesnt affect by ns also

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:55 PM

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tbh i rather sim dungeon slice

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and see how well it works in a mixed setting

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aaPnGqg3baQb3MTm6qYbwC

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ns 📈 in m+?

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:56 PM

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poggers

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 7:56 PM

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wowzer

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:56 PM

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it should be increase even in st i promise

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ive just did some sims where 2 sylv daggers is 150 dps diff and high ilvl mh is like 80

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 7:58 PM

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alright, because i got asked.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ooQNQ37D8FASeBC6wvDJfv
gloomblade with PV

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:58 PM

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OMEGAKEKW

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 7:58 PM

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lol

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 7:59 PM

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this is so doomed

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yess

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ill bet difference will be even higher in raid gear

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:08 PM

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could be with more haste ^^

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:10 PM

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ye i mean we already stuck in 40% crit so we will be able to put more in haste-vers in the future

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 8:24 PM

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depends on gear in raid

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:40 PM

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Quick look at the individual tier bonuses:
Note: The sims use 2 legendary powers but gear is not optimized.
Kyrian/Venthyr profile is with 2p and 4p.
Big thanks to Kojiyama for implementing it PirateHeart
venthyr: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fuczJi4jdu26dHVpvjntqC
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938701859013672990/unknown.png
kyrian: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/juT7wyiZM6yat6T2hCLbRq
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455688819648495617/938701912155496448/unknown.png

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so tier set is worth quite a bit

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 8:43 PM

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how much is it with lege

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if its 28% its literally same as assas set + lege

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:43 PM

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thats with double lego

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 8:43 PM

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oh

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our borrowed power for the patch is literally weaker than assa

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wowzers

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:43 PM

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just that the baseline also has double lego

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 8:43 PM

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who would have thought

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now im 100% sure that nerfing this set would be a dumb thing to do lmao

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:44 PM

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all it does is deactivating the 2p or 4p bonus (or both)

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giveme a sec

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i think you confuse sth

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:45 PM

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why is assa feedback thread dead tho OMEGAKEKW

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last message yesterday morning

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:47 PM

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people talk in the channel more

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and don't use the feedback thread as actively

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Dk, i show you the numbers you possibly want

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for venthyr

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:48 PM

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is it assa?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:48 PM

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thats subtlety

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just did remove the 2nd legendary power from baseline

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and did put it in a seperate sim with 2p + 4p

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its the same result in the end

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just splits up what contributes how much

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just shows the % gain from the legendary on top

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 8:51 PM

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ah ok i see

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:53 PM

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if u will count 2+4 as 100%, then it would be 4.2% dps increase from 2nd lego

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:53 PM

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thats in line with the sim earlier btw

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:53 PM

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ye right

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:53 PM

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#916284169057878037 message

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^

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:53 PM

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i dont think rotten will be the way tbh

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:54 PM

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finality maybe

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but hard to predict

steel meadow Dec 16, 2021, 8:54 PM

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i mean rotten can be clunky with the new set
u can lose cp sometimes

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 8:55 PM

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does rotten proc from the 4p proc

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i haven't tested that

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if so it might be sth to report

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given that symbols/premed are excluded it would make sense that rotten is too

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 9:02 PM

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I thought shadowdust was looking like the way to go for Venthyr at least?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:03 PM

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well its not looking way to good anymore

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sub looks to gain more from the tier set than assassiantion
(assassination seems to be around 18% from tier set but gains more from 2nd legendary with around 5-6% possibly more with a different legendary combo)

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 9:04 PM

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Ahhhh, damn I was hoping the rotten wouldn't be the pick, I find it a little clunky and easy to lose CPs

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:04 PM

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does rotten proc from the 4p?

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*does the 4p proc use up rotten

pale jetty Dec 16, 2021, 9:16 PM

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wind furnace alright, because i got asked. <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ooQNQ37D8F...

fake

mental estuary Dec 16, 2021, 9:41 PM

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Does The Rotten hold up in cleave?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:46 PM

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usually not

mental estuary Dec 16, 2021, 9:49 PM

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So Finality maybe the play?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:50 PM

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akaaris, finality and rotten seem all good

mental estuary Dec 16, 2021, 9:50 PM

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I guess pretty early to make a call. Don't even have all the bosses set.

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:53 PM

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there are a lot of things to do for 9.2

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and sims right now are a very incomplete picture

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:29 PM

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ok

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testing sub on this council boss

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the amount

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off highroll

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you can do on aoe with the 4 pc

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is fucking REDICULOUS

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finish finish finish finish finish permanent dance finish finish finish dance dance dance

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like what

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:29 PM

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when all the 4 bosses are up

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its kinda nuts

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:30 PM

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actually rediculous

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 PM

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sin will still prob be better when new shiv comes

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vanish triple garrote ct with 100% increased bleeds lmao

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:51 PM

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almost like the sets aren't tuned yet

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RHmm

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🧠

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 10:53 PM

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even with 50% bleeds its gonna be better lol

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i swapped to sin after a few pulls i never highrolled on sub so idk

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was highrolling my ass off on the first boss though

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 PM

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almost like

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 PM

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had like 6 4p procs back to back

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 PM

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the sets

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aren't tuned yet kekw

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and there's massive rng on them

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 PM

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also like

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the 4p isnt giving blades

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atm

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:54 PM

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yea that's gonna be nuts for aoe

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:55 PM

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so in that 4 boss phase of the pantheon

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you never have blades

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from the 2p

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:55 PM

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i legit highrolled 4 pc and went up like

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:55 PM

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atm

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:55 PM

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4k dps

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from bp spam lol

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add blades on top off that

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gonna be spicy

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:56 PM

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enhancement

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will be insane

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on that last phase

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with the flame shock spread kekg

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actually degen dps

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 10:56 PM

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yea enhance has been looking nuts

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 10:56 PM

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frost dk/fury will be cracked too

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:56 PM

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almost every spec

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will be nuts

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it seems

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kekg

grave peak Dec 16, 2021, 10:58 PM

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wait

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isnt 4 targets the perfect amount for nf hunters legendary

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huntrs insane hello?

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 10:59 PM

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venth enhance will be fire

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mar gock all over again

unkempt peak Dec 17, 2021, 4:28 AM

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@wind furnace those sims for 9.2 tier bonus & legendaries, did you also sim different conduits?

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 4:30 AM

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idk what conduits would be impacted

unkempt peak Dec 17, 2021, 4:30 AM

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maybe stilletto gain for value for venthyr?

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 4:33 AM

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unkempt peak maybe stilletto gain for value for venthyr?

you mean lose value?

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2 set reduces the value of stiletto since you're already gaining so much uptime

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 5:11 AM

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wouldn't 2 set gain value

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for stiletto

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cuz stiletto = more shb = more ss = more shb = more dance = more ss etc

unkempt peak Dec 17, 2021, 5:12 AM

#

that was my train of thought, but i guess it loses value because of how much uptime you already have

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

I mean I can see that argument

#

I don't think that's necessarily true though

#

cause you'll have blades all the time

civic terrace Dec 17, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

You may be right but only if the durations would all add together

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

eh

#

some pulls i really only be having like 30-40%

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

we can test it though

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

4 pc doesn't proc 2 pc rn tho

civic terrace Dec 17, 2021, 5:14 AM

#

It will in january build iirc

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:14 AM

#

what second lego we want

#

akaari?

unkempt peak Dec 17, 2021, 5:14 AM

#

venthyr i thought it was the rotten

#

from what fuu posted today?

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:14 AM

#

yeh idk I haven't been keeping up

#

sin sims all day

unkempt peak Dec 17, 2021, 5:15 AM

#

which makes me so sad 😦

#

i hate how clunky the rotten feels after the changes back in beta?

#

will make it so easy to accidentally waste the CP

#

hopefully we might see some legendary tuning before 9.2 drops, but tbh im not holding my breath, tuning this whole expansion has felt super lite, i honestly doubt we will see anything for sub outside of maybe tier set tuning?

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:21 AM

#

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/WAVDZ3nJkqr3VunjZgV5T

Raidbots

Top Gear - Venth 4 P Base Sin T 28 - 14,083 DPS - Raidbots

#

yeh idk

#

(don't mind the name)

#

I repurposed a sin setup, but I changed all the gear and stuff

#

stiletto seems kinda awful

#

0.3% ahead of PE

#

1.7% behind PV

grave peak Dec 17, 2021, 5:23 AM

#

stiletto dead pog

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 5:24 AM

#

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2MSAQEaVfNGaMxZCq6BGZQ

Raidbots

Quick Sim - Venth 4 P Base Sin T 28 - 14,082 DPS - Raidbots

#

here's a quick sim with the same profile

#

62% blades uptime

#

WorryReview

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 5:39 AM

#

interesting

#

i mean pv stonks makes sense

#

more dance = more pv

#

also helps with our uptime issues dropping stiletto which is kinda pog

vestal geyser Dec 17, 2021, 6:00 AM

#

The Rotten 6 stack PV backstab gachihyper

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 6:16 AM

#

Weird

#

Why is venthyr simming 14k for you @plucky storm

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 6:24 AM

#

wdym

#

what's it supposed to be simming

#

oh

#

it's probably the shards

#

I disabled the actual effect

#

but dyz/bek/cor are still in

#

forgot to override those

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 6:28 AM

#

What is it w/o

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 6:30 AM

#

livid ferry What is it w/o

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9HgjabBirCoBwwydZVP38d

Raidbots

Quick Sim - Venth 4 P Base Sub T 28 - 13,623 DPS - Raidbots

#

same as the pin

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 6:34 AM

#

Ight word playuh

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 6:50 AM

#

Funny thing is, that assassination gains currently about as much as subtlety:

#

well slightly less in this sim, but i know that you can switch to dusk and be around about 28%

#

(the profile i used for sin is not as good, hence the low-ish numbers)

#

What that means is that the assassination set bonus is actually weaker than subtleties one

#

but assassination can get a lot more out of legendary powers

#

ofc very early results, so apl changes, tuning, gear optimisation, etc. all need to be done

#

dps variance is also lower on assassination

#

compared to subtlety

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:00 AM

#

yeh

#

I also can't get a sin profile anywhere close to sub

#

top end sin profiles are getting to 12970

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:01 AM

#

kojis sim was at around 13.2k

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:01 AM

#

Hmmm

#

with base gear?

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:01 AM

#

i sadly don't have the profile for it

#

need to ask him

#

also nice spreadsheet update 👍

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:02 AM

#

ty

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:02 AM

#

i think its kind of expected for sub to be ahead

#

EoN is just insane with the new set

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:02 AM

#

bug fixes to the sky stonks_up

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:03 AM

#

and Assassination still has the poison bugs if i remember correct

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:03 AM

#

yep

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:03 AM

#

i remember that assassination would become close or even beat sub baseline without the poison bugs

#

but that was also without EoN

#

and potentially some apl advancements we had after

#

poison bug was around 200 dps or so

#

haha, just saw this

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:07 AM

#

look at the dpet from sepsis on those

#

kekl

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:07 AM

#

tbh i don't think toxic plays terrible for sin

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:07 AM

#

49k to 82k

#

MonkaS

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:08 AM

#

#

🤔

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:08 AM

#

yeh it's pretty crazy

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:09 AM

#

ah its already with sepsis shock

#

wonder if there is merrit in some apl changes for it

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:09 AM

#

yeah I made some semi-bis profiles with it

#

conduit changes and stuff

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:09 AM

#

the damage profile is kinda yikes

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:10 AM

#

yeh

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:10 AM

#

venthyr sub in contrast

#

sepsis rly offers a big burst, could end up very valuable in the raid for assassination

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:10 AM

#

sepsis/vendetta already syncs

#

but I'm pretty sure that the duskwalker variable is just fucked

#

cause it's way more energy

#

so I have to go back in and up that probably

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:11 AM

#

is shiv sync already good?

#

or potential for some slight changes

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:12 AM

#

shiv probably needs some help

#

it's synced to sepsis fine

#

but needs some help for other stuff

#

like dust

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:12 AM

#

EP taking over is expected, mfd i did not expect

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:13 AM

#

ep/mfd for everything atm

#

dust is a funny one

#

cause no one ever cared about dust on sin, and shiv was always terrible

#

so it just overlaps shiv casts

#

and adding !debuff.shiv.up

#

instantly is like 1.5%

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:16 AM

#

oops ^^

#

oversight

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:16 AM

#

well without the 4pc

#

it's like

#

super whatever

#

basically means missing 1 shiv cast worth of uptime over the course of 5 min

#

but when shiv is 20% of your damage

#

kekl

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:17 AM

#

tier set rly makes shiv worth it

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:17 AM

#

yeh

#

shiv is like

#

vendetta levels of strong

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:17 AM

#

tiny toxic blade time kekw

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:17 AM

#

kekw well not quite

#

wait

#

were koji's 13.2k sims with dom shards

#

I thought I remembered him saying something about that

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:19 AM

#

possible

#

i did just use the baseline profile

#

and switched out all 5 tier pieces

#

for the sin one

#

(explains the lower baseline)

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:21 AM

#

time to sim more top gear

#

Gladge

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:21 AM

#

#DontNerfSub

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:22 AM

#

sims are only a fraction of the entire picture

#

deeper is for me simming higher for assassination

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:23 AM

#

yeh it's possible

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:23 AM

#

funnily enough

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:23 AM

#

I did all of my optimizations before simming a second lego

#

with dusk -> vend -> more energy

#

probably kills mfd tbh

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:24 AM

#

btw. did you see the NS sims we did yesterday?

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:24 AM

#

yeah I glanced at them

#

looks close

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:24 AM

#

NS takes over in dungeon slice

#

wonder how practical it is in reality

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:24 AM

#

munkas

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:25 AM

#

Idk how pleasant NS would be to play lol

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:25 AM

#

isn't NS also still bugged to hell

#

and not working on stuff

#

or is that a shadowdust thing?

#

idk too many bugs

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:25 AM

#

Doubt the risk of fucking shit up is worth the reward of within margin dps

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:25 AM

#

NS should work on most things

#

but its more about haste/energy levels

#

both tier sets improve it

#

finisher increase your energy economy, and both tier bonuses do allow you to finish more

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:27 AM

#

You can also run in situations where you just dont get the RNG you need

#

kekg

#

And then you’re really sad

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:27 AM

#

i mean

#

i am not sure how long you play rogue

#

but if you played during legion you will remember energetic stabbing

#

symbols was a cooldown that costs energy back then and needed to be refreshed during dance

#

and you could not fit every global in dance when you needed to use symbols because of energy

#

so you needed to be lucky to get a energetic stabbing proc to fit in the last gcd

#

(unless you had legendary boots, they would make you not care at energy at all)

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:31 AM

#

This is a different lvl of rng lol

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:34 AM

#

@plucky storm if you know any NS related bug thats not on the tracker, pls share

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 7:34 AM

#

no I just thought I heard something about NS not working

#

but it's probably prepull related

livid ferry Dec 17, 2021, 7:34 AM

#

Probably related to prepull

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:35 AM

#

i hope they fix the prepull stuff

#

at least dance dark snapshot

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 7:36 AM

#

Yeaaa I prefer bing chilling in dance at 0 haste no thanks ns

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:38 AM

#

Simulations for Legendary combinations:
Necrolord: #916284169057878037 message
Night fae: #916284169057878037 message
Venthyr: #916284169057878037 message
Kyrian: #916284169057878037 message

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 7:38 AM

#

wind furnace Simulations for Legendary combinations: Necrolord: https://discord.com/channels/...

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

dont worry people it seems ns is quite legit for dungeons

#

even when you dont go proc horizon it didnt feel dry as f

#

i do wonder if new m+ affix is also minibosses or something else

#

that may change things a lot

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

seasonal affixes are dumb get rid of them and make better dungeons

#

-soapbox

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

seasonal affixes seem like a good idea

#

its more the execution thats not great

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:24 AM

#

they spice the dungeons a bit

#

now the dungeons themselves are quite hmm

#

but oh well

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

i mean if blizz had the budget

#

or interesst

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

i wonder how they allocate resources

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

they could do something like league of legends does every season

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

Dungeon design just feels bad

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

and spice up each dungeon and re-design stuff

#

agree with you whispyr

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

It’s crazy how much better legion dungeons feel

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

when not all pulls had 5 mechanics

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

When they weren’t designed for m+ the same way sl dungeons are

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

and bosses actually used abilities

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

And there was like 450% trash in each dungeon

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

compare wrath of azshara to any sl or bfa boss

plucky storm Dec 17, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

Instead of 110%

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

i think the main issue comes from blizz starting to design dungeons around m+

#

what means the pathing and often creativity that legion had in design just didn't get carried over

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

we just need more open dungeons

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:31 AM

#

also one thing people rarely talk about

#

is that the amount of dungeons went down

alpine sentinel Dec 17, 2021, 9:34 AM

#

at least every seasonal affix is different they try to experiment it's still quite a new concept

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 9:36 AM

#

wind furnace also one thing people rarely talk about

that's the worst thing in SL by far

#

going from 12 to 8 hurts so much

alpine sentinel Dec 17, 2021, 9:37 AM

#

maybe they have PTSD from trying to balance seat and cathedral in Legion

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:38 AM

#

My approach to m+ would be
#1 get rid of affixes and redesign the affix system entirely. I rather have some quality affixes than a lot of annoying ones
#2 allow more creativity in dungeons, it shouldn't be that you only have a illusion of choice where you have 2 paths to go and both end up with the same mobs more or less. Also don't hessitate to bring new stuff in m+ look at vault in legion f.ex.
#3 higher amount of dungeons, if you have 2-3 more dungeons and one is breaking mdi you can ban it. But having 2 dungeons nobody runs with with a bigger pool is better.
#4 i like the idea to re-design dungeons seasonal slightly, rework the layout, break in walls to open new pathways, introduce new packs/mechanics...
#5 improve the keystone system

#

like for me it just seemed that blizz is stuck in what they made m+ to be, and not improving on the format

alpine sentinel Dec 17, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

different dungeon design and layout is possible but I think they said they don't want to intervene too much into M+ once the basics are already established

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:43 AM

#

i think thats kind of my point

#

instead of improving what exists

#

its "good enough"

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:44 AM

#

i mean even in legion

#

with dungeons like

#

darkheart thicket

#

that are very linear

#

you still had some freedom to experiment with routing

#

not to mention it's just fun

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

you had some non linear pahs

#

and also shroud skips etc

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

exactly

#

like i legit had started to think after all these years

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

one thing legion dungeons fall short is damage scaling

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

maybe legion dungeons weren't as good as i thought it was just my first xpansion so nostalgia gear swapping was pog etc

#

nope

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

legion dungeons have a way harder wall you hit on higher keys

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:45 AM

#

legion timewalking is legit 5x more fun than live keys

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

when you can't progress further easy

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

yea the

#

aoe damage on certain pulls / bosses straight up killed you lol

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

just because there are things like abilities that oneshot you due to damage scaling etc

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

you legit had to farm avoidance gear

#

and have an immunity

#

above a certain key lvl

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

but this is when i think blizz could

#

have invested ressources to fix those things

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:46 AM

#

yea

#

it's not even remotely cap legion keys are just more fun

#

i'm glad they did this timewalking to reaffirm my theory that M+ just sucks now because dungeon design is just bad

alpine sentinel Dec 17, 2021, 9:47 AM

#

yeah it feels good to get 60% count before first boss in Vault

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:47 AM

#

i think they tweaked the % in some dungeons

#

but also just the mobs that let you do massive pulls or do hyper inflated damage are fun

#

target caps and forcing linear routes without much leeway are some of the worst things they could've done

#

it's actually anti-fun lol

#

who tf does keys going yea i wanna pull 3 mobs at a time like what

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:49 AM

#

i mean there is some limitations

#

e.g. i know ashine mentioned that they had a strategy in arkway that would pull the entire dungeon

#

but they couldn't do it because it would lag the game out extremely

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:49 AM

#

lmaooo

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:50 AM

#

and i was like "make it happen"

#

because thats what i want to see in mdi

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:50 AM

#

exactly

#

i wanna see

#

a fire mage

#

blink into the banquet hall in halls of valor

#

speedpot

#

pull both sides

#

like 40 fucking mobs

#

iceblock to group them up

#

dk pulls aggro

#

and just go's ham

#

not this weak milk toast bullshit they got nowadays

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:53 AM

#

Tank design was very different

#

Idk if you remember, but tanks had to hit all mobs once or twice and that would be enough to keep aggro for the rest of the pull

#

After 1-2 slams or something, they just ran the fuck away

alpine sentinel Dec 17, 2021, 9:54 AM

#

yeah

#

and slow ring

#

and leech aura

#

very OP

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:54 AM

#

Yea, a time where tanking was hit and run kekg

#

Blood dks healing the entire party was kinda op

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:54 AM

#

i'm fine with the kiting

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:55 AM

#

Meant they played 1 tank 4 dps in the mdi in some dungeons

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:55 AM

#

i mean just look at what prot warriors did in bfa with thunderclap kiting

#

that shit took actual skill

#

but like

#

figure out a way to make big ass pulls possible

#

M+ is fun cuz do big aoe pull omg crazy do big dam pull it off omg crazy

#

feelsgoodman

#

it's legitimately that simple lol

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:56 AM

#

They need to tone down the amount of casts you have to interrupt for that

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:56 AM

#

or just have hyper cc god outlaw rogue

#

like in bfa

#

kekw

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:56 AM

#

In bfa and sl, 80% of the mobs are dangerous

#

In legion it was ok that some mobs were just meatballs with a name

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

i mean they were dangerous in legion

#

we just had better cc and better aggro

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

Ye but it was frontals

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

so once cc was out you dipped

#

nah there was tons of packs

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

And shit

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

that if tank was in range and they did their casts or w/e

#

you just died

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

Well you also had aoe stun on almost every class

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

yea that's what i'm saying

#

you had busted cc and aoe silence belf

#

for the first half of the pull

#

then just kited it out for the 2nd lol

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

Ye idk

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

bfa/sl was designed around m+
And they did want to slow down progression so that dungeons are not about who can pull the most together and burst it down

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

which is fucking stupid

#

that's literally the fun part about keys

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

thats why we have a cast you need to interrupt in every pack

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:58 AM

#

get better at keys > do bigger pulls > do more dam > poggers

#

like what

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:59 AM

#

Legion m+ had major downsides too, the bosses werent designed for infinite scaling

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:59 AM

#

yea but they can easily adress that

#

in future dungeon design

#

they legit just failed at the fundamental process of what makes doing keys fun

#

like fuu said

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 9:59 AM

#

At some point they just started 1 shotting, just a few select classes could actually push high keys without dying

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 9:59 AM

#

they wanted to slow it down and prevent people from just doing mongo pulls

#

yea u needed an immunity

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:00 AM

#

wind furnace thats why we have a cast you need to interrupt in every pack

feels like we have so much less this expac tbh

#

going in legion m+ as outlaw felt so different

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:00 AM

#

even shit like

#

the crabs wandering around eoa

#

something so simple

#

makes the dungeon so fun

#

cuz big pull big dam

#

also execute boss is pog

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

the seagulls

#

XD

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

KEK

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

seagulls were menaces lol

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

"who did pull the seagull?"

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

winged fiber cuz big pull big dam

ah yes, swapping to sin for tol dagor's beach :')

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

loves that pull

#

*love

#

*loved

#

sheesh

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

if you had a good rdruid sure

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

like bfa season 4 with the routing you could pull off cuz of obelisks

#

was actually really fun

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

cause goddam that hurt so much

#

yeah awakened was so good

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

and you could do quite a few crazy pulls in high keys

#

not to mention doing bosses with 2 obelisks

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

or do two at once

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:02 AM

#

was actually challenging and kind of remedied the milk toast boss design

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

i miss the creativity that affix had

#

you could play the same dungeon very differently that was cool

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

yea

#

this whole xpansion has been

#

kill shitty elite

#

get shitty buff

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

i think Atal is where we saw the most variance?

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

zzzzzzzzzz

#

atal was insane

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

well it's fine in concept

#

i'd rather that than beguiling

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

i honestly don't think it's fine

#

in concept

#

it's incredibly bland and boring

#

hey you know these shitty dungeons we made

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

well you get something for doing something

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

were gonna put an elite in it

#

next season it's gonna be a differen't elite

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

granted tormented lieutenants are tuned badly

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

next season it's gonna be a differen't elite

#

and they all give you differen't lame buffs

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

the ones you can easily skip are the ones that have the bad powers

#

prideful had a good buff tbh

#

it just sucked ass in higher keys to play it

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

it's friggin boring

warm olive Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

yeah but it's big dam, you get it you blast

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:04 AM

#

like the obelisks had challenging boss fights and route creativity

#

season 2 had mongo big dam aoe

#

which is just fun cuz big aoe big dam = fun

#

but this elite = buff is so bland iuno

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 10:16 AM

#

i like how you filter infested and sexy ladies of uselessnes out of your brain ahaha

#

horrible seasons

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:18 AM

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Yea those were just abominations I would legit punish the team that made them

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But like seriously think about it is this lieutenant shit even good in concept

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Take cos or vault right good dungeons fun to play

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:19 AM

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season 2 was fun because the seasonal affix was ignorable

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in bfa

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:19 AM

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Would putting 3 elites in the dungeon that give you a little buff make them more fun

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No it wouldn’t

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So why is it a thing???

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That’s kind of my point tho fuu an affix is either good because it’s designed well like season 4

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Or good because it’s basically negligible ie no affix

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Adding our current seasonal affix or prideful to eye of azshara doesn’t make it more fun that dungeon is just fun because it’s designed well so what’s the point of the seasonal affix then

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:22 AM

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yes

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:22 AM

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I honestly think I would prefer if the trigger for these lieutenant mechanics was rng based

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:22 AM

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i also think some affixes are just not well designed

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outside of the seasonal one

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:23 AM

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Also big true

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Some weeks even when all I did was m+ I just wouldn’t play pepechortle

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Would be hard to balance that trigger tho

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:24 AM

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i mean its probably unavoidable to have push weeks and weeks that are less appealing

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:24 AM

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Yea but there’s some affixes that are just like yea I don’t really want to play this it’s not fun

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Like necrotic

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As a blood dk

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:24 AM

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random idea for me would be to have affixes specific to dungeons and rotated weekly

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so that there is at least 1-2 keys well to push every week

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instead of having one push week every now and then

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:25 AM

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I think at some point we have to recognise that some of the fun of playing games is the rng that happens, and when you know about that rng it can be played around

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There definitely would have to be some conditionals of course but

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:26 AM

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There’s lots of interesting ideas they could implement

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Especially with affixes or even key availability

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:26 AM

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I think tuning m+ into some rigid “balanced” competitive environment is a large amount of why it’s so stale

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:26 AM

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Sandbox modes etc

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Nah they just made shitty dungeons and tried to force you to play it how they want you to play it which is boring

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:27 AM

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the only problem i see is that if you allow people to easy avoid affixes

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:27 AM

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M+ should be a dungeon / sandbox type environment where you go in and experiment to do crazy shit and push your limits

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:27 AM

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is that you end up in a situation that only the best affixes would be played ever

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:28 AM

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I do agree that the dungeons just suck in general but I think that also comes down to their tuning methodology

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:28 AM

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i think feedback about packs and placement was given in beta

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that once the affix changes it will become a lot worse

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:28 AM

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I didn’t play legion but the legion dungeons seem way better from a lot of perspectives

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:29 AM

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They are

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And yea they got tons of feedback

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They just hit us with the 200 years bullshit we know what’s best

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Turns out that was cap

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:29 AM

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I’ve had way more fun in there and been way more just… monkey brain stimulated by them

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:31 AM

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to be fair, i think legion was also exciting because it was something diffrent

winged fiber Dec 17, 2021, 10:31 AM

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Not for me was my first xpac lol

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That’s why I’ve kind of thought ok maybe it’s just you start a new game and it’s fun rose colored glasses or nostalgia but nah

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Time walking keys are just more fun than live lol

hazy girder Dec 17, 2021, 10:36 AM

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I mean I just came back to WoW in shadowlands after quitting at the end of WoD so my eyes were fresh to both

#

My first impressions of sl dungeons were already negative

#

And I thought the legion dungeons would be the same

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But I’m way more interested in the legion dungeons

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 10:43 AM

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i did like the legion ones more than wod

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wod had some rly nice ones but also a lot of not so good ones

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 11:57 AM

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@wind furnace

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is the bot actually just using 5/9 ER charges?

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on cp 2

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(ptr sim)

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 11:58 AM

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the sim does miss some of the 2p procs ye

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possibility for some improvements in the condition

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2p is also likely harder to hit with the tier sets esp. given the high blades/dance uptime

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:01 PM

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i mean

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yes perhaps

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but you are not missing almost half of them

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at worst you miss 1

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per fight

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and even that sucks ass

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so idk if missing 4 is a realistic thing

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:04 PM

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i did look quickly into it when koji changed the condition but can try later to find some gains

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:04 PM

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i mean

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@quartz idol has literally already made a fix

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but he keeps getting ignored

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:05 PM

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huh?

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:05 PM

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Annsie has posted a fix

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for the "braindelay"

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at least 3 times

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and idk, never gets any replies

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:05 PM

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sry, i must have missed it

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:06 PM

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i also dont know how the bot is missing 3-4-5

#

2 is the only cp

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which should be missed

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sometimes

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:06 PM

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yes 2 seems like the worse to hit

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:07 PM

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like if it wasnt for the fact that the bot missing multiple cps per fight could impact gear choices

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:07 PM

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ye might need some looking into the 3 4 5

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:07 PM

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i wouldnt care

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cus its intentional sandbagging imo

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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mastery going ultra instinc next tier praydge

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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but it might devalue stuff like mastery, finality etc

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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when i look through the log i see this

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qUTH5ajbi5oP7CwZGUSWpq

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 12,767 DPS - Raidbots

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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inb4 a trinket that gives us cps someow

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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wind furnace when i look through the log i see this

yes

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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"this is some basic waiting + ER outside of dance, unless I fucked up something"

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:08 PM

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it would be giga if we had class trinkets like in WoD

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:09 PM

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its still missing cps

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but its not as bad

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:09 PM

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^ this is about the ER outside of dance

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:10 PM

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like the big part for me is that the swings go full force when you pretend like its possible to hit 0 anima cp 2 in a 5 min fight

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like thats actually not happening

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:10 PM

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again, rly sry if i missed a specific modification else

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:10 PM

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but in the current apl it is

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:10 PM

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might need to override so when 4pc procs with blades and we get 3 etc

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:10 PM

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wind furnace again, rly sry if i missed a specific modification else

no thats it, and i have no way to know that you reported it

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even with the tier set its possible to hit anima cp 2

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i did some raid testing last night and i missed anima cp 2 like once or twice entire evening

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:11 PM

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but there is a line that would need some changes

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giveme a sec ill search it

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:12 PM

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yea the 2 one is more of a backstab thing

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but the 3 4 5 no idea how to fix

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:12 PM

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for the "no ER in dance", it seemed to be a loss on some profiles

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:12 PM

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well now with 60% uptime on dance might need another look

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it might go even higher with more gear

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:12 PM

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yea

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:13 PM

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you cant really waste cdr

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:13 PM

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the 2 apl changes that are rly important would be the tornado fix and the dark/alacrity one

#

that are not pushed yet iirc

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:13 PM

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tornado?

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:13 PM

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ye there is a deathlock with flag and nighstalker

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that i fixed and improved it even further

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:14 PM

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oh cool i already though ns was quite competitive for slice

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:14 PM

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yes

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:14 PM

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tried some dungeons and it felt ok with all the blades and 4 pc shit going on

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:15 PM

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actions+=/variable,name=effective_combo_points,if=covenant.kyrian&effective_combo_points>combo_points&combo_points.deficit>2&time_to_sht.4.plus<0.5&!(combo_points=2&buff.echoing_reprimand_3.up|combo_points=3&buff.echoing_reprimand_4.up|combo_points=4&buff.echoing_reprimand_5.up),value=combo_points

#

^ this line

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i need to look at it more if i have a longer period of time

#

because i think it needs a lot of simming/fiddeling

#

the simple fix is only 1 line

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- actions.cds+=/flagellation,if=variable.snd_condition&!stealthed.mantle&buff.symbols_of_death.up&combo_points>=5
+ actions.cds+=/flagellation,if=variable.snd_condition&!stealthed.mantle&(cooldown.symbols_of_death.up&!talent.shadow_focus.enabled|buff.symbols_of_death.up)&combo_points>=5

#

but i got some improvements too that would end up pushing it slightly more

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giveme a sec ill do a sim for dungeon slice for you

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@mellow urchin just to iterate on it, if you think i missed something apl wise or ignored feel free to always ask back or remind me.
I always try to test/put forward changes we found in the community

#

@delicate osprey https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/49pWsUUEvCRG5iD9yhNsnK

Raidbots

Advanced Sim - 14,566 DPS - Raidbots

#

its 1.3% ahead but double lego is with rotten, might be better with finality

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:23 PM

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wind furnace <@!153289634909126656> just to iterate on it, if you think i missed something ap...

ye but its replied to in behind closed doors where nobody can see it

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so if you could like maybe say "yes i have reported it"

#

then its fine

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:24 PM

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i also plan to setup a local toolchain when i have a bit more time

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so i could push stuff directly if the others are busy

#

(I could potentially use the new github feature for apl changes, as apl changes don't need to be tested locally)

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:26 PM

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even with rotten it checks out ye

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:26 PM

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mellow urchin so if you could like maybe say "yes i have reported it"

sure, i had the feeling that it was expected that i investigate/put forward findings if i discuss them in the channel. But can do that more directly.

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:27 PM

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tbh one of the biggest gains for venth too is the dagger will change at least in main hand

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:27 PM

#

but this is without my improvements

#

could be another .4%+ on top

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:27 PM

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and if what scarizard said is true and the new dagger also has something for it

#

so we can bin both daggers

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:27 PM

#

wdym something for it?

potent vault Dec 17, 2021, 12:27 PM

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Scarizard said dagger will have an effect?

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

yes

#

push did talk about them having a effect similar to eon

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:28 PM

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he did say we would change from sylv dagger

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

i think whispyr told him?

#

i mean it makes sense if there is one specific dagger with a strong effect

#

but the issue remains the aquisition

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:29 PM

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well if you look at balance in the raid rn, remove the special weapons from rogues and we are mid/bottom spec

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:29 PM

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unless its like a item you guarantee to take

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:29 PM

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well there is no new build until january sadly but still it seems interesting

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:29 PM

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so it makes sense that our weapons are replaced by something

#

at least the january build should be big right

#

right

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:30 PM

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the changes for rogues didnt make it to the one for this build so they should be in for next one

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:30 PM

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i hope so

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:30 PM

#

maybe they even pre tune the 2pc from assa

#

or sub

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:30 PM

#

subtlety looks numerical stronger

#

from tier set

#

but assassinations legendary choices are way better

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM

#

well

#

whispyr found like 4% gains for their set last night

#

in a few hours

#

so we'll see how far ahead it actually is

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM

#

i did see some discussion in the sin discussion thread

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM

#

tbh i wish we had some changes to nf so we got the benefits from ar+vend

#

getting 0.8 global would be huge for tornado

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM

#

subterfuge seem to break a bit with the tier effect currently

#

so fixing that should be worth some % dps

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:32 PM

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subterfuge on sub is on a weird spot too ahaha

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:32 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c3AQBMAFNJCGYSmUgYXdfQ

#

finality

#

oh i mean for assassination hacha

#

for sub its kinda useless

#

but having 100% more damage from tier set

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:33 PM

#

yea tbh necro assa will be crazy cleave

#

on some bosses

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:33 PM

#

means that a subterfuge buffed garrote does 300% instead of 150% of its damage during that

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:34 PM

#

what i find funny is with nf sepsis will actually do quite a lot of damage

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:34 PM

#

mellow urchin whispyr found like 4% gains for their set last night

with apl or gear changes?

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:35 PM

#

sub might also like mastery a bit more than haste now

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:35 PM

#

i know that changing to dusk was a qutie noticable win

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:35 PM

#

dusk is weird because with the bug on 4pc you are getting so much uptime because of the hasted bleeds

#

but they still havent taken it out

#

so maybe its intentional

#

i guess they are still looking and seeing what happens

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:36 PM

#

there is still quite a bit of time

#

and not sure any balancing was done yet

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

well yea if we theorize patch coming out late feb

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

wind furnace with apl or gear changes?

apl

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

ah nice

mellow urchin Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

the tier set broke their apl a bit

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

makes sense

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

ye i did see that

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:37 PM

#

you dont really want to vanish soon

#

until next shiv

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:38 PM

#

its funny how its even with somewhat broken apl

#

such a big gain

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:38 PM

#

for big dick garrotes

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:39 PM

#

wonder how they tune the sets

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:40 PM

#

they have a lot of ways to tune sets already that is good many of them have numbers easy to tweak a bit up or down

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:40 PM

#

sin 2p you can simply tune duration or %

#

not sure how to tune subtlety without making it feel worse

#

lower shb duration possibly for 2p

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:45 PM

#

mellow urchin but he keeps getting ignored

I've been summoned

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 12:47 PM

#

too late executus

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:47 PM

#

mellow urchin

the bot before was getting around 7-7.4 if I remember correctly

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:48 PM

#

i think you can dissable the delay implementation

#

koji did mention it in here somewhere, would need to go through his message history

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:49 PM

#

wind furnace i think you can dissable the delay implementation

what do you mean

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:50 PM

#

actions+=/variable,name=effective_combo_points,if=covenant.kyrian&effective_combo_points>combo_points&combo_points.deficit>2&time_to_sht.4.plus<0.5&!(combo_points=2&buff.echoing_reprimand_3.up|combo_points=3&buff.echoing_reprimand_4.up|combo_points=4&buff.echoing_reprimand_5.up),value=combo_points

#

^ the kyrian changes that lead to this line

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:52 PM

#

you mean he wants to remove the changes he made or ?

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:53 PM

#

#tc-research message

#

^ this one i mean, sry posted it in the wrong channel

#

no, just that you can dissable it iirc

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:54 PM

#

I mean yea, but its still in the default one

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 12:56 PM

#

oh ye, its the default

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 12:59 PM

#

it just makes it so it doesn't consider you actually are on an animacharged cp, unless its 0.5s after a sht proc, so its just gonna use backstab instead of finisher on animacharged

#

and what I did is to wait a bit if a sht is about to proc

#

but also the waiting might be even bigger with the 2p set bonus since you would be getting 2 cp from backstabs instead of 1 most of the time

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 1:01 PM

#

makes sense

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 1:05 PM

#

with the new set you may backstab to almost full proc sht then finish stab finish

#

it works on both blades or no blades stab

#

only problem is that sounds cool when said but then when playing it's another beast

#

to troll you it would proc 4p with blades so you get 3 points and back to the pain train again

wind furnace Dec 17, 2021, 1:06 PM

#

i haven't tried kyrian on ptr

#

only venthyr

quartz idol Dec 17, 2021, 1:08 PM

#

delicate osprey to troll you it would proc 4p with blades so you get 3 points and back to the pa...

oh ye that would be fun

delicate osprey Dec 17, 2021, 1:08 PM

#

it happens quite a bit

#

you get used to it

#

in my opinion i quite like venthyr more

#9.2 Feedback and Discussion