9.2 Feedback and Discussion | Ravenholdt | Page 3

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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ok so unless ur in top 10 world

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its true

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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The extreme low end thinks like that too push

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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well rogue has sat out these last 2 tiers but yea top 10 or so its a diff world

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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if ur a good player you will see play

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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top 10 or scuffed lower end that tries to be stupid about balance 😉

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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They’ll try to incorporate all the “ meta” shit they can

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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also melee in general ahs been the stepchild for so long

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:31 PM

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wind furnace top 10 or scuffed lower end that tries to be stupid about balance 😉

yea i know ur guild does some fucked shit to melees

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 4:32 PM

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many guilds sadly

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:32 PM

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Bcuz they think bringing some shit tier vnethyr bird over a decent fury warrior player will improve their chances

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 4:32 PM

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it just drips the worst things

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:32 PM

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i was in quite some wild guilds in bfa/legion too

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e.g. one did bring me in to "test dps" on a fight

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and after i topped as #1 on the meter they just straight up benched me for the next fights

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because i did not beat their dps by enough

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even tho i ranked 95%tile or higher

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:33 PM

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Ye some lower guilds have degenerate leadership

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:33 PM

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funniest thing was

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that one raidlead did whipe the entire raid on purpose for a bit over a hour

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because the boss was down 100%

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to then next raid bench 3 or so people who where in for the whole progress

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to bring in his "homies"

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and get the kill

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if you play lower end you rly see some very questionable decisions, and people just go along with it

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well i already derailed the discussion to much, lets move back to the intial point

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i am with you, if you are good and put in enough effort, you should have no issue to have a secure spot

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:37 PM

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its hard to imagine

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how awful low tier guilds are

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not even my guild was anything like that when it was lower ranked

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:38 PM

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I was lucky that my old guild didn’t really participate in meta chasing too hard

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Good players got playtime

potent vault Dec 15, 2021, 4:39 PM

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mellow urchin not even my guild was anything like that when it was lower ranked

Push knows all about long term investments

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:39 PM

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mellow urchin how awful low tier guilds are

none of the people in charge for some of the stupid stuff that happened in my current guild are in charge anymore

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coincident?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:40 PM

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potent vault Push knows all about long term investments

we have a rogue spot open if you want to play on EU

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:41 PM

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How much does Colour pay

potent vault Dec 15, 2021, 4:41 PM

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mellow urchin we have a rogue spot open if you want to play on EU

Do I get to skip being a trial

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Due to push vouch

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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nah

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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Push vouch has negative value now

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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i vouch for you too rae

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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Depreciated greatly

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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long term investment Prayge

potent vault Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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NODDERS

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Anduin testing gonna be fun this week

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Ima show up

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:42 PM

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dunked by drkst

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 4:43 PM

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Drkst doesn’t seem to understand how to play with the set very well

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His skolex and dasugne performance wss

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Less than optimal

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:43 PM

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does he understand anything well

potent vault Dec 15, 2021, 4:43 PM

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madge

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:43 PM

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@wind furnace going back to sub

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i noticed that vanishing at 10 seconds

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is very awkward

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later in the fight

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you have to hold vanish for a very long time

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to not waste symbols cdr

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:43 PM

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when would you vanish

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:44 PM

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or well 10-15 sec

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right after using all cds

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:44 PM

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vanishing before first dance means no cdr on dance

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:44 PM

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well ye

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just vanish in dance

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ur losing a shadowstrike, i am sure its fine

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:44 PM

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i wasn't sure if thats good because you lose vanish strike value

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but can try

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:45 PM

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you have to hold vanish quite a bit

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:45 PM

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if alignment later is weird

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is it possible to put in dealys to make it better?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:46 PM

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sure its all within 5 minutes anyway, but if the fight is longer than 5 mins, chances are you might lose a vanish

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:46 PM

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i could see that linking to other cds could be net positive

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:46 PM

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well on my most recent dummy attempt i vanished at 00:11, 02:26 and 04:49

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basically holding it for 13-15 seconds

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both times

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:46 PM

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sync it with flag?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:47 PM

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cus it comes up when symbols is about to come up

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:47 PM

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ah, sync with symbols?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:47 PM

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you cant sync it with flag

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not sure you should sync it to anything given how it works

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:47 PM

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i can try a quick sync with symbols

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:47 PM

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you just want all ur cds to be on cd

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:48 PM

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can try to make a simple condition for that

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and see how it uses it

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how much cdr does it provide exactly

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:48 PM

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20 sec

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:49 PM

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so symbols gets the most benefit

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 4:49 PM

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probably

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 4:49 PM

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my thought

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if its used during symbols

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you guarantee that you get full benefits for symbols

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but lets start doing some sims

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 5:18 PM

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That might be worth

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If you pop it with symbols you basically have everything on cd

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1 dance on cd flag on cd etc

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Losing 1 ss with all that cdr is prob ok

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And you get vanish on cd pretty much right away

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:20 PM

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With obedience it can end up being somewhat important

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 5:22 PM

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Yea I’d assume you’d want vanish somewhat synced with obedience to get the back to back symbols value within the 24 second window

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And if you pop it with symbols it’s basically guaranteed to always line up

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:23 PM

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This is however a house of cards level of mess to apl out

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 5:23 PM

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Cuz Dust reduces flag

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Yea I can imagine pepechortle

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:23 PM

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Like

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Its already complex and sensitive to change with just obedience

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And 20 sec cdr on everything

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 5:24 PM

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Not to mention the tier set rng

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:24 PM

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Has the potential to just be a nightmare to optimize

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 5:25 PM

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Is a good thing we got good tcers

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Otherwise we’d end up like nathria spriests on this one

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kekw

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:27 PM

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Yea well

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Better be on your toes

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And check how it plays when you sim something and its worse than you imagined

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 5:33 PM

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mellow urchin And check how it plays when you sim something and its worse than you imagined

What are you trying to say here pal

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:33 PM

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Well a lot of stuff just doesnt work does it

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Or not a lot

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But things i assumed was working has sometimes not been

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:34 PM

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back, so it should possible be a win for current gear too, or do you only expect double legednary choices to have impact from apl changes

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:35 PM

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I have like no expectations tbh

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:35 PM

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ah fair

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i just wasn't sure what test profile to set up

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:35 PM

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But i think its not worth doing just dust apl stuff

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Because thats likely not going to last

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With obedience

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But i am not sure ofc

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 5:36 PM

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Dust itself isn’t gonna be a thing either 💀

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:36 PM

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Not being able to play that combo kinda makes it hard to predict bad shit

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:37 PM

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ye its probably better to look at dust + obedience specific

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alright, lets do some simple testing

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okay, this didn't work out
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nqgt9TExUooJ9LFNYVoPqh

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:43 PM

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What did you change

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:43 PM

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just synced vanish with symbols

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but also disallowed it in dance, lets try to allow in dance

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:47 PM

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How would that even work

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:47 PM

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it doesen't rly thats the issue

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vdxLftMehHsHeLVvZppSTg

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thats like... not rly relevant

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lets see what the sim does

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still vanishes late

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guess i need to move the condition

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n8uQPNBqfKMX4pZxfR5Xyg

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not to bad

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this sounds bad

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uff

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:56 PM

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Yea that’s weird

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As long as the vanish is after every cd is used it’s fine

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 5:56 PM

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Thats in the same second

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Should apply cdr

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:57 PM

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Can’t you make a condition that checks for cds

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:57 PM

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its easy fixed

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i just consider shb cooldown

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 5:57 PM

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livid ferry Thats in the same second

Order matters

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Just like with macros

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 5:58 PM

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i read macos first, damn

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/55jNKLxtTpkJR36obaM8Fk/simc

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fixed

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but still, within .1% so not a gain

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:01 PM

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Is there any update regarding possible combinations of legendaries?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 6:02 PM

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wind furnace but still, within .1% so not a gain

Alright

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:02 PM

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Sorry, work has been annoying I haven't been keeping up on this channel.

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I'm too old

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 6:03 PM

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There was some scuffed sims done with bare bones set implementation @gusty thunder

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 6:03 PM

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gusty thunder Is there any update regarding possible combinations of legendaries?

Set is not implement properly yet

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Implemented

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 6:03 PM

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#916284169057878037 message

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^ we did some experimetation with sims earlier, but its rly something to take with causion

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very scuffed/rough estimate

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:05 PM

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Thank you guys.

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:06 PM

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wind furnace https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/916284169057878037/9206865991744...

That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you so much.

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 6:06 PM

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again

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this isn't with a real implementation

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just with changing spell duration and proc chances

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to create a rough estimate

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:10 PM

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Yeah, I know, I just wanted a general idea.

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 6:11 PM

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general idea is: every cobo sucks given that best one seems around a 4% dps increase

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:11 PM

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Thank you @wind furnace

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 6:12 PM

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but no tuning so far, so peeposhrug lets see

gusty thunder Dec 15, 2021, 6:13 PM

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Yeah, it's too early to tell.

hoary zephyr Dec 15, 2021, 8:13 PM

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akaari bug fix will definitely make it #1

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no shot it doesnt

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:14 PM

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not sure about that

hoary zephyr Dec 15, 2021, 8:14 PM

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idk man

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:17 PM

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I need to do some finality dummy tests

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:23 PM

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hoary zephyr akaari bug fix will definitely make it #1

it might with real implementation

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but you have to realize that this scuffed simulation already has more akaari procs

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cus of the way bigger WM proc chance, and WM procs akaari

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:24 PM

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susdge

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:24 PM

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livid ferry <:susdge:847736318884446208>

?

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:24 PM

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but you can copium on what i said earlier

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:24 PM

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mellow urchin but you have to realize that this scuffed simulation already has more akaari pro...

This fact, and akaari is still behind

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:24 PM

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that other factors like stats/etc are relavtn

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*relevant

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 PM

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There is something fishy going in

hoary zephyr Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 PM

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what was the Copium earlier?

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oh

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bro

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like I refuse to believe that after bug fix, akaari wont be the best

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idk what Fuu is on

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 PM

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Its probably best even now

hoary zephyr Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 PM

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yeah

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:25 PM

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Lol

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:26 PM

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so there is something weird

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i am sure that regular WMs proc akaari, but according to this list that doesnt seem to be the case in simc?

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or why is there only 96 regular akaari hits

plucky storm Dec 15, 2021, 8:27 PM

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can akaari miss

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Hmmm

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:27 PM

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Parry perhaps

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:27 PM

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and why is there 269 total strike hits but only 200 shadowblades hits

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nvm

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dont answer

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it has uptime

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2head

plucky storm Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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kekw

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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You know you could have deleted that

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I wouldn’t have said anything

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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i dont delete mistakes

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i own them

plucky storm Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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but like 107 normal strikes vs 96 akaari strikes

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kinda whack

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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Ye

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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plucky storm but like 107 normal strikes vs 96 akaari strikes

akaari is a dot

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which can apparently

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lose hits

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or something

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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FeelsWeird

plucky storm Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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HmmHmmHmm

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what

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:28 PM

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if you hit too many in a short time

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like it clips

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in some weird way

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idek

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its very weird at least

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akaari is not a strike

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its just a debuff

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:30 PM

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Go hit dummy with finality equipped on kyrian push

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:31 PM

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why

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:32 PM

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I need some numbers

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:32 PM

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ive already done that

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or well

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it was finality on venthyr

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@plucky storm ok

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i just checked 1 random log

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and akaari should indeed just be the same number as shadowstrikes

plucky storm Dec 15, 2021, 8:33 PM

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yeh

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:33 PM

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however

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weaponmaster strikes

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i dont think they trigger akaari

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:34 PM

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Cringo

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:34 PM

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i think akaari has its own 15% chance to wm

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which would make sense why its not exactly great with this implementation of the set

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:34 PM

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Still doesn’t make any sense

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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?

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didnt you just read

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what i said

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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?

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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the 4p simulation is done through WMs

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Oh

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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if WMs doesnt even proc akaari

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Yea maybe

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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then its losing like 20 procs

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in current sims

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Still weird

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2 pc literally doesnt give finality anything

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:35 PM

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more finishers?

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:36 PM

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Finality is only indirectly benefiting from 4 pc

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And basically mostly from rc

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:36 PM

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more cps = more finishers

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= more finality

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:36 PM

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more finisher -> more finality procs -> more damage

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:36 PM

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Sussy

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Anti-Finality Activism

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:40 PM

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what part of akaari is fun

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 8:41 PM

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embrace the duster

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:41 PM

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Akaari is cool because it has clear cut synergies with the set

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It also has a cool name

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Finality is just “I finish more” PepeDumb

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:42 PM

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finality is literally

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12.5% mastery

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on avg

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🙂

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:43 PM

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Sounds like ass to me

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:43 PM

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oh right

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there is a bug with finality btw

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@wind furnace did you know that finality evis is consuming itself on the shadow dmg part

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instantly

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like half the time

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:43 PM

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aMonkaHmm

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:43 PM

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yes

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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i was testing this shit

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and it just kept going away

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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moment

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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on 1 evis

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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wasn't that on the tracker

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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Thats a pretty decent loss right

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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i have a vague memory of it

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surprised it isnt even fixed tho

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kekg

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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or do i mistake it for somehting else

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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been there since SL beta?

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM

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i know for sure

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:45 PM

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isnt that kinda shit

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:45 PM

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that finality is buggy with Tornado

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:45 PM

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Ye sounds bad ye

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:45 PM

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and simc is not reflecting the self-consume?

livid ferry Dec 15, 2021, 8:45 PM

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Akaari 📈

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:50 PM

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mellow urchin and simc is not reflecting the self-consume?

its also possible that it changed

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and nobody noticed

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i am not sure about the implementation details

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i know mystler looked at it when they did changes to it

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what does it do exactly?

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consume the buff every time

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:55 PM

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wind furnace its also possible that it changed

i am trying it now

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and its not doing it anymore

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really weird

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:56 PM

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ye i thought about bp

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not evi

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sry

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:56 PM

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ye i know about the BP bug

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 8:56 PM

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wasn't aware of evi having a issue

mellow urchin Dec 15, 2021, 8:56 PM

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it doesnt

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from what i am seeing now

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unless its on live

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and not ptr

wind furnace Dec 15, 2021, 9:07 PM

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ah nice

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means implementation is correct

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https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/issues/747

GitHub

Finality: Black Powder affects every shadow attack · Issue #747 · S...

Game Version: 9.0.2 beta Build 36839 Description: With the hotfix to Finality: Black Powder being consumed immediately by its own shadow damage, it now affects every instance of shadow Black Powder...

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is the reference to the pb bug

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 11:01 PM

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having someone say

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our bis legendary is worth about the equivalent of 12% mastery

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is kind of sad

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RHmm

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 11:02 PM

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not even because snd has no mastery

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so even less than 12% overall

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more like 10 or 8

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so imagine how all the others are so bad they cant even compare to that kekw

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i still think rotten/dust check out for venth and for kyrian aakari seems kinda uncontested

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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yea we needa nerf sub set

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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it all depends on the overall powers

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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actual dog tier legendaries though OMEGAKEKW

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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i hope they have their hands on good data

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like this tier only damage profiles went oof

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but balance was kinda good

winged fiber Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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yea

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carried by sylv daggies

delicate osprey Dec 15, 2021, 11:03 PM

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totally

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:29 AM

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I don't mind our Legendary powers being bad

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If the sum of things ends up being net positive for the specs

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Numbers aside, venthyr has a very nice lineup for their top legendary choices:

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all 3 of them feel impactful in your rotation or give you control over burst

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 9:38 AM

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Weird fuu

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Weird

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You know koji implemented the sub set a few hours ago right

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:44 AM

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did he?

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i haveb't cought up yet

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 9:44 AM

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Yes

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:44 AM

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oh correct

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 9:44 AM

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https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/52fab91cc94d2ffbb08b8c7a15dee7121ffe98ad

GitHub

[Subtlety] Initial T28 Implementation · simulationcraft/simc@52fab91

Includes all pending bugfixes as mentioned in https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-set-feedback-rogue/1143962/53

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:45 AM

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i do sims when i come back home

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probably would also like to look into item slots for the set

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i will ask seri to re-build the nightly for it to be in

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 9:49 AM

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Nice

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I mean you can just go online on ptr

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And /simc the set?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:49 AM

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yes

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giveme a sec

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 9:49 AM

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are they still putting haste on every piece

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or was that a placeholder

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cuz doesn't that suck cheeks for kyrian?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:50 AM

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i think the stats are only relevant short term

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because over time you can start putting the set on any piece

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 9:50 AM

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nah they said it'll change stats

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to w/e that tier piece is

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you can't farm bis statted pieces to make tier :/

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:51 AM

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oh

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i misunderstood it then

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seems like a diffrent direction

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because if you could just put it on any item, it would open up a lot of doors for pvp/m+

winged fiber Dec 16, 2021, 9:56 AM

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yea i wish they did it that way

#

would make actual bis gear fun to achieve

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

Tier set strings:

head=,id=188901,bonus_id=6652/7578
chest=,id=188903,bonus_id=6652
hands=,id=188907,bonus_id=6652
legs=,id=188902,bonus_id=6652
shoulder=,id=188905,bonus_id=6652

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 9:57 AM

#

wind furnace Tier set strings: ``` head=,id=188901,bonus_id=6652/7578 chest=,id=188903,bonus_...

#

letme quick test if i used the correct strings

#

test sim: (tier set is not working in it yet)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2oF2rYdUP1imFeC2C6dRSc/simc

#

did koji post any sims of the set?

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:01 AM

#

Nope

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 10:03 AM

#

fair, the PR looks complete. So don't think anything is missing

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 10:19 AM

#

haste is not horrible for st but it kinda ints the other aspects hmm

#

well guess we will have to choose off pieces with more crit/vers

#

we still dont know trinks from the raid either

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 10:19 AM

#

there are none

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 10:20 AM

#

yea i mean that

#

i wrote it weirdly

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 12:58 PM

#

legs have haste and crit

#

i assume slot choice is directly related to domination and legendary slots

#

e.g. just hypothetical if you use akaaris for head

#

you likely use belt for covenant legendary

#

but would also need to consider that you might need 1-2 slots for domination

#

so 2 of those

#

hands/chest/shoulder/hands overlap at least

feral schooner Dec 16, 2021, 1:57 PM

#

How much worth is the 2 set? Dps wise. Would that already amount to the same damage as active shard bonus in Sod?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 1:58 PM

#

i will run sims on it once raidbots is updated

#

raidbots makes it just a lot easier to share the sims and see stuff in the report

feral schooner Dec 16, 2021, 1:59 PM

#

Ok ty fuu

#

It's just as far as I remember didn't play bfa though that we are losing power going into a raid since the shard bonus is gone.

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:00 PM

#

we do lose quite a lot of power going in

#

because we lose the domination bonus

#

but both sets together could be between 12-20%

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:17 PM

#

Dps numbers in the raid testing were mildly comparable to current dps, that was all scaled to 252 and single legendary

#

I thought the difference would be much greater losing the dom sockets but it didn’t seem absurdly different, a little lower

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:19 PM

#

you lose out up to 25% dps

#

and tier sets might not be 20%

#

iirc they aim at beeing somewhere around 10-15%

#

2nd legendary for us is 4%

#

numbers won't skyrocket

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:21 PM

#

That kind of lines up with what I was seeing I think

#

I expect with the ilvl it will pull ahead more

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:22 PM

#

wind furnace you lose out up to 25% dps

who is losing 25% dps

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:22 PM

#

depends if they keep domination gems active

#

but if both domination + sets are dissabled it should be around that number

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:24 PM

#

I mean the sets are more like 10% right

#

Domination sets

#

With the dps gems then offering a few %s depending on their activation

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:25 PM

#

ye i think the blood set is like

#

11-12%

#

i have a hard time seeing the dom gems being 13% dps kekg

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:26 PM

#

venthyr without domination is 11k iirc

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:26 PM

#

25% is perhaps outlaw/assa

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:26 PM

#

wind furnace venthyr without domination is 11k iirc

thats 10%

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:26 PM

#

thats around 12% ye

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 2:27 PM

#

can't wait for mastery to be good in ST after 9.2 Macky

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:27 PM

#

is there a mastery rework planed?

#

or do you mean mastery in 9.2 becomming stronger due to tier

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 2:27 PM

#

nah blood makes mastery less valuable

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:28 PM

#

monkahmm

#

more like

#

unholy set makes mastery better

#

and blood makes crit/vers better

#

not mastery worse

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 2:29 PM

#

but you have to play unholy then lul

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:29 PM

#

i could see hacha stacking mastery with finality and 2p in 9.2

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:29 PM

#

you do get more finishers overall with new set but its still a sad landscape

#

it will be way better for m+ now

#

that we dont have those anima powers

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

4p is kinda insane in aoe

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

ye

#

and no more necrotic dagger and axe

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

100% fw uptime without high crit

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

those were the mastery killers

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

also a lot of "back to back" finisher

#

from 4p proc

#

(also potential wm proc)

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:31 PM

#

it can highroll and will highroll wildly sometimes

#

like legion wm

#

but now weee dont have to bother about dfa bugging and not doing dmg at least

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:32 PM

#

they fixed that

#

by not allowing wm to proc from dfa

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:32 PM

#

The 4p on xymox felt insane on some pulls

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

it can and will be insane on some pulls yea

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

i feel like the tier set will get tuned

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

that is the gamba

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

but i have nightmares about tier 21

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

many sets have died in ptr

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

having history repeat

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

like nightold

#

etc

#

and antorus

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:33 PM

#

and tier set going from "oh wow, that sounds cool" to "oh wow, it procs? sometimes?"

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:34 PM

#

replicating shadows

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:34 PM

#

was never fixed

#

™️

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:34 PM

#

I mean it definitely felt absurd sometimes but

#

There were other classes “keeping up”

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:34 PM

#

dont worry people will run around with more busted shit

#

as always

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:35 PM

#

i mean

#

keep in mind that testing isn't rly that informative about strengh

#

to many things are not well explored

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:35 PM

#

Like warlocks seemed to do a lot of damage as well

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:35 PM

#

and yea ptr is so scuffed

#

warlocks are getting changed yea

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:35 PM

#

like i saw some sims from mage

#

changing rotation to get 3% more deeps

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

same as arms warriors when they saw that tier

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

I think hunters when their set worked properly did a lot

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

and there could be a lot of those things

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

the arcane mage set and double legendary is 25%

#

in total

#

quite large

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

assassination would be in that range too probably

#

now

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

The only mages I saw were trying frost which was terrible

#

I don’t know if that was a chair related problem or spec

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:37 PM

#

isnt the assa 2p just making crit a stat again

#

but 100% more dmg is similar to 100% crit?

#

except it can crit

#

(and thus do more dmg)

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:38 PM

#

its not

#

because its multiplicative

#

i assume

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:38 PM

#

monkahmm

#

yea

#

i dont know if they want to put a 100% multiplicative buff into the game

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:38 PM

#

also being able to crit means it can go even higher

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

it has a quite longish duration too

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

i assumed its just double dmg on bleeds

#

and thats basically it

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

i mean

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

they want to just put something then tune it i guess

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

crit is also double dmg on bleeds

#

mind you

#

but ye it might interact with more things

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:39 PM

#

assassination is not all about bleed/poison damage

#

but its still a huge benefit

#

and you can already buff bleeds with stuff like nightstalker or subterfuge

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

but your assumption is that its like 15-16% now?

#

the 2p

#

and 20% set in total?

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

they may play ns or subter like fuu said

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

100% * 50% (from subterfuge) * 100% = 300% of base

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

instead of ma like now

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

ye if its multiplicative

#

and not additive

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

so it can be a bit high when everything comes together

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

so garrote is doing 300% base damage instead of 150%

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

same as sepsis or sbs

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

i mean the 2p works on poisons too right?

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

yes now it does

#

so it should also affect instant poison

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

and envenom?

#

nah

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

nope

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

shiv cooldown is also low

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:41 PM

#

or?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

yes

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

envenom is so weird

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

poisons and bleeds

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

envenom is nature dmg

#

so ye

#

idk

#

or is it?

#

no its not

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

not really zold does not affect it

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

so also potential stuff like necro or nf covenant ability

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

it's like a weird attack

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

well sepsis with the septic shock conduit in shiv could be interesting kekg

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:42 PM

#

yea in pvp it will be busted

#

but sub will also be busted

#

if you rng

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

subs dmg is rng tho

#

trash for pvp

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

^

#

sin is highly controllable

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

not really with thief's bargain

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

so you can set up rly easy

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

we can look at 100% blades uptime

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

and every time sin is good in pvp

#

you don't play sub

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

it will be so weird playing that

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:43 PM

#

similar to raid ^^

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:44 PM

#

the thing about sub in pvp

#

is that the skill cap is like a huge gaping fissure

#

that cant be overcome easily

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:44 PM

#

my feat rly is that the nature of the set being random will end up making it less exciting for progress

#

and for parsing

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:44 PM

#

yea that for sure

#

trying to fight with 80% uptime on blades andies

#

that also get a lot of procs

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

i just feel like

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

might be assa tier

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

that if assassination is anywhere close

#

you just don't play sub

#

because everything is compatitive

#

and sin has one of the best low target cleaves

#

and 2p just makes it even more absurd

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

ye the fact that the 2p is aoe

#

is a bit nuts

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:46 PM

#

its not tuned yet tho

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 2:47 PM

#

ETA on seriallos

#

fixing the nightly?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:47 PM

#

hasn't responded

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 2:49 PM

#

funniest shit is rogue can be quite equalized at least for sub if they change deathspike a bit and buff sepsis

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 2:50 PM

#

he is na timezone tho

#

so will usually not respond before early/later eu time

#

usually not before 5/6 pm (its around 4pm atm)

#

i should somewhere in the near future set up for a local simc build, but i still prefere using raidbots as its just a lot easier to share

#

(also everyone sees the input and can fast just sim it for themself)

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:01 PM

#

man kyrian is just crazy strong with this set

#

smh

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:01 PM

#

pepelaff

#

Embrace

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:03 PM

#

gamba to the moon

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:03 PM

#

#

the amount of finishers

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:03 PM

#

I was testing rc last night

#

Was getting casual 60+% blades uptime

#

60+ dance

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:03 PM

#

ye

#

#

this was over 5:30 mins

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

Also unless double lege changes a lot, im crafting akaari lmao

#

I tested finality

#

Numbers just arent there compared to akaari

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

i mean do you see the amount of finishers you do with this shit

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

Yes

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

mastery stonks

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

And i see the dps i do at the end

#

Its worse than akaari

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

you probably have like

#

100 mastery rating

#

what if you can have a build where you stack mastery

#

and play finality

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

Thats

#

copium

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

pepoShrug

#

who knows

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

I know

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

finality is already simming high for it with a profile that has almost no mastery

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

We are a shadowstrike spec not an eviscerate spec

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

watch us play

#

fucking

#

NS finality

#

with high mastery

#

snapshotting ruptures

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

Lmfao

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

cus you can refresh

#

every single rupture

#

within dance

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:07 PM

#

Ye

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:07 PM

#

and you do a mini rupture before going into dance

#

so you get the buffed one

#

in dance

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:07 PM

#

hahaha but yea unless there is a busted trinket again

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:07 PM

#

NV gameplay, except it buffs rupture instead of evis

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:07 PM

#

it seems mastery gets some passive booster

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:08 PM

#

heard of the bell?

#

@mossy carbon finish ur fucking sentence REEE

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:08 PM

#

But ye idk the numbers just aren’t there for finality alone

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:08 PM

#

i mean trinket that does a lot of damage like fusion phial etc

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

Feel it will definitely be an assa tier at least at a high level, having strong determined burst windows and an easier/slower rotation is always going to push it to the top unless tuning throws up outliers

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

Maybe it has some insane synergy with rc

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

Sorry Push

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

those ones devalue mastery

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

kekg

#

"Xelion is typing..."

#

for like 10 mins

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

rogue does not have burst windows

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

livid ferry Maybe it has some insane synergy with rc

more like we are not playing any mastery atm

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

Dude

#

MASTERY IS SHIT

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

i can log on and try 131%

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

it ramps hard

#

with this amount of finishers, obviously mastery is gonna gain

#

something

#

and you have seen it yourself, when playing with unholy set

#

mastery rating value goes up

#

quite a bit

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:10 PM

#

Ye or you could just stack vers like always

#

And your ss is still getting buffed

#

While also buffing finishers

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:10 PM

#

mossy carbon Feel it will definitely be an assa tier at least at a high level, having strong ...

ye this is true, luckily i dont give a shit about ease of play unless its like A LOT better than sub

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

And also buffing shadow blades dmg

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

i mean no one said vers and crit will suddenly become bad

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

stacking vers is kinda hard in this game cus they barely put those items in the game

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

but getting more points of dps per stat is never bad

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

SoD had a lot of vers items, i dont expect the next tiers items to have the same amount of vers

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

and if it inches forward of haste and maybe vers it's k

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

i mean the set gives you all the haste you will ever need

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

Are the stats on the set finalised? Haven't been on ptr in a while but last time it was placeholder SoD items

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

its placeholder

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

they can change them but idk

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

but it wouldnt surprise me

#

if they just keep it around

#

but i think its a bit weird that almost every item has haste on it

#

these are my stats with the set equipped

#

10% haste is not too bad

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

What

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

but vers takes a fucking dive

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

I have like 20%

#

KEKW

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

I would expect there to be more of a mixture than what there is right now in stats

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:13 PM

#

Oh cos ring

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

smh

#

k this is with the fatescribe ring

#

a bit better

#

10% haste = definitely doable

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

Nah

#

You wanna go as low haste as possible copium

#

To make your sht procs as low as possible

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

i just realized

#

all these items

#

on the t28 piece

#

exist in SoD

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

Yes

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

so ye these are placeholders

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:15 PM

#

ye

#

safe fron haste jail

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

I assume most of the leather will have vers on it

#

Since most leather users like vers

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:16 PM

#

head = remnant
shoulders = KT
gloves = ???
legs = painsmith

#

the gloves actually dont exist

#

in that version

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:17 PM

#

Ye

#

Haste mastery

#

SMH

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

i am unsure what set pices end up best

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

i mean they are all placeholder items from the current raid

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

domination you likely use feet

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

IF blizzard keeps dom gems working in the new raid they have no brain

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

not sure about 2nd domination piece, if its worth to keep

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

Domination sockets will 100% be fixed in new raid

#

There is no way

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

will play shard of dyz until the tier is over in mythic

#

no ilvl will be better than 1.5% more dmg on everything you do

#

when all ur dmg ramps = the benefit becomes bigger from it

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

it's locked to instance id right RHmm

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

the gems are not locked to anything

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

gems work everywhere atm

#

set bonus does not

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

oh right only set bonus

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

maybe they will say the gems need the shadowlands to work and make new zone a part of something else

#

like neck does in azeroth

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:21 PM

#

unsure

#

but those are the domination slots

#

and head, chest, legs, schoulders or hands are the tier set

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

yea its a sad day to be leather and not have a wrist dom socket slot

#

we suffer in our advantage in this tier

#

with boes

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

so feet is the slot that works always

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

also weird no pants in the set?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

what means you can in theory use 2 dom sockets

#

sets have pants

#

legs = pants

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:24 PM

#

oh we have 6 slots

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:24 PM

#

yes we have 6 slots

#

for dom + tier set

#

combined

#

so you could in theory use both

#

2 dom sockets and full tier set

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

yea belt and feet

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

I think they are forced in some way to make vers less accessible maybe? If the amount of vers available kept going up I think there would be some unfortunate side effects

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

belt?

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

for other classes

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

oh

#

belt or bracers for other classes iirc

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

but leather has no wrist so i guess hmm

#

yea we would go feet and hands i guess

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

we would lose head, schoulders, chest, hands legs and feet if we run tier + 2x dom

#

could use belt for covenant lego

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

well good thing our leggos have good jewelry as back ups

#

or cloak

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

and back for other one

#

like finality

#

kekw

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

depending on leggo ilvl and last bosses loot everything can change i guess

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:27 PM

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also we have 1 weapon slot locked with offhand

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so we have 9 slots locked

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM

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m+ vault in shambles

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until we drop sack

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then everything is k

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM

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(4 tier + 2 dom + 2 lego + 1 dagger)

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM

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unless they nerf it again

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM

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sack will likely get nerfed

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just my 2c

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:28 PM

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maybe they only make it explode on 3 stacks

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and up the proc chance a bit

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so it does not fall out

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:29 PM

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the most important thing about trinkets will be raid trinket tuning

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:29 PM

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yep as always

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:30 PM

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if we get another EP level of tuning, we won't get trinkets from m+

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also iirc push did say we get another eon like dagger

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so dagger will also come from raid

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makes 10 items secure locked

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:30 PM

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wind furnace also iirc push did say we get another eon like dagger

scarizard said "dw there will be another weapon" or something

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about the EoN

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i am not sure what that means

#

but ye

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:31 PM

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Cosmic damage weapons

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:31 PM

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yea that cosmic dagger looks sexy as f

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:31 PM

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as i lined out, the issue is that if its like eon

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you will have the same issue in aquirement

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so not rly solving any issues

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:31 PM

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dagger hell all over pog

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:33 PM

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hacha, push you both did play ptr a lot i think

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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"a lot"

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a few hours on dummy

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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yea there is raid testing today and tomorrow too

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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how exactly is the tier set aquirement working

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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its on a vendor

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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outside of raid

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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yea its on the tauren

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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kekg

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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no not how i get it on ptr

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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setzertauren

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well thats not in the game yet

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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oh you mean the thing they said

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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i know how to get it on ptr

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yes

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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about krangling items into tier sets

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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but its from the creation catalyst

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:34 PM

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nothing on that yet

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its on the campaign week x

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:35 PM

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but you wont be able to make tier sets from that until a few weeks have gone

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:35 PM

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havent done even 1 chapter i think

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:35 PM

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^ like this message earlier confused me

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:35 PM

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and it seems like a month 2 thing

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unless i missed something we still dont know how it will work

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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like how i understood it was that you can just craft it over time

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but the last message "you can't farm bis stated pieces to make tier" is confusing

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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I mean that's a good thing fuu, can you imagine how aids it would be to farm your bis stats (presumably at a suitable ilvl) to fully optimise your tier

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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i don't see it as a big issue

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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it would be a goal to have

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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you can upgrade gear in m+

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:36 PM

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not everyone likes to just raid and log off

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and like fuu said having 9 locked slots

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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Sure, but we don't know how it works, my assumption (with no basis in fact) is that you need it from vault

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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wind furnace you can upgrade gear in m+

yes but you cant grind a crit/vers item and make it into crit/vers tier set

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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is kinda of a huge cringe

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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to be the required ilvl for mythic tier

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or whatever

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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i dont think you care about ilvl

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tbh

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just getting the set

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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mellow urchin yes but you cant grind a crit/vers item and make it into crit/vers tier set

ye, so how does it work?

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:37 PM

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it just becomes the item

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from the raid

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it stops being the m+ item

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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oh

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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and just becomes the raid item

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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now i have to pray for tier set to drop and if it procs tertiaries it will be the work of god

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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exact same appearance

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and name

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everything

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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so you can just craft one item into the tier set

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not put the set bonus on any item

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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ye

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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seems so

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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i like the idea of it being gear independent

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more

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:38 PM

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you still need to have a chest to make the chest set piece

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etc

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you cant put the bonus on bracers or feeet

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if thats what ur asking

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:39 PM

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i think i understand it now

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thanks

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:39 PM

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the new multicovenant piece they said will have different slots apart from belt

#

but not which ones

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or if its all

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i would dig a ring not gonna lie

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:40 PM

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I think one of the interviews said that you could use vault items to craft your tier with the forge, I don't think it will be just the items from the end of dungeon chest that you can use it for

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:40 PM

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yes it will be

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at least thats what morgan day said

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on that podcast from like

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3-4 weeks ago

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:40 PM

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Are you agreeing with me sorry, misunderstood you

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:40 PM

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the only thing he said about the vault is that you can get the raid set in ur vault

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no

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:40 PM

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you can also use pvp items

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 PM

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you can farm tier set in m+

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you dont need to rely on vault

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 PM

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its tbh a advancement

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not as dynamic as i would like it

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 PM

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yea if its live on like first month it will be big

#

but if its on month 3

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 PM

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Fine, presumably you're going to be locked on whatever arbitrary currency they bring in anyway, so in that sense it's nicer you can get your items ready ahead of time if you're unlucky

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:41 PM

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a lot of unhappy looters will be had

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:43 PM

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mossy carbon Fine, presumably you're going to be locked on whatever arbitrary currency they b...

they said the currency will be like the one you bought corruptions with

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from the vendor in 8.3

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aka something you can farm in pvp, m+, raid, wqs

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whatever

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:43 PM

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Was that one capped? I didn't play nyalotha

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:43 PM

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i like it if you can get the same rewards independent of content you do

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:43 PM

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no it wasnt capped

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but you had to grind

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quite a bit

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to buy any corruptions

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i know raz played like 1500 arena games in 2 weeks

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to farm the resource

#

kekg

mossy carbon Dec 16, 2021, 3:44 PM

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Yeah I don't want to do that lmao, island flashbacks

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:44 PM

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i rarely see raz

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what is he up to?

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 3:44 PM

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they were on rotation too

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:46 PM

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having some mandatory grind is part of the game tho, so lets hope it won't be to big

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:46 PM

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wind furnace i rarely see raz

he pops in every 2-3 days

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with a "np"

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:47 PM

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kekg

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:48 PM

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@wind furnace send seriallos a clock emote

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

haha, ye saw that too

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:48 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/clock-watch-hurry-up-judge-judy-i-aint-got-time-for-that-gif-5406593

Tenor

Judge Judy ain't got time for that

▶ Play video

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:48 PM

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dw, i will inform you right the second he tells me about the rebuild

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:48 PM

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what kind of demon is that man

#

still asleep?

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isnt it like almost 11 AM

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:49 PM

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i have no idea about his time zone

#

and also not sure how often he checks discord

#

again he usually didn't respond before 5-6pm

#

not sure if there will be any diffrence today

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:49 PM

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i remember when raidbots had issues

#

and he wasnt home

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he race-car speeded home

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and fixed it

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:50 PM

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i think some others have some more access to rebuild and stuff

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:50 PM

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Push thinking there will be rebuild just for sub

#

SMH

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:50 PM

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but i usually always just contacted him directly and it isn't a big problem usually to do it

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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livid ferry Push thinking there will be rebuild just for sub

yes? he does rebuilds for singular trinkets

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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livid ferry Push thinking there will be rebuild just for sub

why not, i asked him often in the past to rebuild

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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Our spec is irrelevant we dont even exist

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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seriallos loves sub

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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No chance

#

No one loves sub

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 3:51 PM

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haha

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 3:52 PM

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i do

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big sub simp

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haters be gone

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 3:52 PM

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Fake spec enjoyed by fake people

delicate osprey Dec 16, 2021, 3:58 PM

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i tried sub for a while in 2005 quite cool spec

#

big backstabs

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 4:37 PM

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Surprised to see that subs tier set didn't get touched with the other rogue bonus changes, wasn't expecting anything major, maybe just addressing the fact that our set bonus is very RNG

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

iirc the rogue dev did say he likes the bonus as i

#

*as is

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

if anything he will make it even more rng

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

only if he decides to change % chances

#

but feedback was given that the rng nature is a bit surprising

#

i mentioned it on wowhead

#

and push, me and others did mention it in the feedback thread

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

had 62% on another attempt

#

next = 54%

#

smh

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

haha^^

#

i did also mention that i am afraid it could end up like t21

#

what went from 10% proc chance to iirc 4

#

and then made the entire tier set irrelevant

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

how many combo points do you lose with that uptime though did the dev said something about it?

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:47 PM

#

combo point loss rly depends on how you play

#

you can e.g. always finish early and have a very low cp loss in general

#

like, we often take a slight overcap

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

so it depends, needs apl testing

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

another pull

#

smh

#

casual 13% blades uptime increase

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

60% shd

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:49 PM

#

60% is avg

#

can do like

#

62%+

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:53 PM

#

i just don't like seeing to high uptime numbers on dance

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 4:55 PM

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yeah it feels like you barely have time to refresh rupture and SnD

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 4:56 PM

#

you refresh snd in dance

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 4:56 PM

#

^

#

keeping snd has a very high priority

#

people always underestimate snd

alpine sentinel Dec 16, 2021, 4:57 PM

#

RHpog

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 5:01 PM

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hope serialos responds soon

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 5:28 PM

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hopefully, idk i dont mind a little bit of RNG, like weapon master procs, small things - but when you are looking at a big swing from 54% uptime on shadow blades vs 66% because you got some lucky procs, is always going to feel worse when you get unlucky.

#

thats the thing about RNG, you tend to forget the lucky parts, but the unlucky moments stick

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 5:28 PM

#

you will remember both

#

if you get back to back 4p procs

#

and just explode on the meter

#

but if you "pop off" once and then feel bad because you get average/bad procs 100 times

#

it still means you have a mostly negative impression

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 5:32 PM

#

idk push just a pussy i've never seen such a drastic low

#

54% is fine lol

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 5:39 PM

#

soon™️

mellow urchin Dec 16, 2021, 5:42 PM

#

Pog

potent vault Dec 16, 2021, 5:43 PM

#

NODDERS

livid ferry Dec 16, 2021, 5:44 PM

#

lesgo\

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 5:44 PM

#

Any RNG with a big impact on performance sucks tbh

Crit itself is pretty much on the edge already

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 6:06 PM

#

i mean with edge, and the concept of them removing the cp gain to turn it into an edge effect, it just becomes something you never really feel and only understand retroactively

#

like its very rare i "see" my edge procs

#

and when you proc with the set as it is it actually feels insane

#

so idk how they could make something interesting that didnt have that diceroll attached

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:07 PM

#

hazy girder i mean with edge, and the concept of them removing the cp gain to turn it into a...

and the concept of them removing the cp gain to turn it into an edge effect
?

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 6:08 PM

#

its something people vaguely talk about when it comes to balancing the set

#

removing the cp gain from the set bonus

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:08 PM

#

oh

#

i misunderstood the sentence

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 6:09 PM

#

it's alright, I'm incoherent at the best of times

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:09 PM

#

na, i was just slow ^^

#

removing the cp effect could def. help controlling the power level

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 6:10 PM

#

for sure and it does seem like the obvious way

#

but it felt so fun

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:10 PM

#

esp. in aoe because having back to back procs can rly build up some big numbers

hazy girder Dec 16, 2021, 6:10 PM

#

yeah i have been trying to find the logs from our xymox testing but im not sure anyone i know kept the link

#

sometimes it was pretty stupid

#

but I think there was only 1 occasion where I was an outlier to the other higher dps

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:11 PM

#

aoe in general esp. with the mentioned bugfixes

#

could end up fairly strong

unkempt peak Dec 16, 2021, 6:28 PM

#

I wonder if we will see any nerfs to Edge of night closer to 9.2 release, if not I'm guessing we will basically have one in our off hand until the end of the expansion?

#

Unless they add another dagger with an equally good effect

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:29 PM

#

For now that sounds about right

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:32 PM

#

unkempt peak Unless they add another dagger with an equally good effect

Thats what they aim to do from what others told us

#

but i would still be concerned

civic terrace Dec 16, 2021, 6:33 PM

#

Just loot edge pat

wind furnace Dec 16, 2021, 6:33 PM

#

because up to the point of acquiring the new "eon" you still am in the situation to have a non replacable offhand weapon

#9.2 Feedback and Discussion