#[Spoilers] Lore Discussion 9.2
hasty coral
Finally. no more spoiler tagging.
tight loom
@hasty coral fair point, though presumably there’ll be Character Development first
I could honestly see a story where pelagos gets a lot more personality, a lot more mature, and it’s like a great change from how he starts out
ooooor
inland grotto
I think the thing that I hate about it
tight loom
He’s just gonna be like “arbiter now” and it’ll suck
inland grotto
Is that the whole soulbind thing doesn’t really make much sense
After he ascends to arbiter
hasty coral
'Hey guys. I'm soulbound with the Arbiter. Suck it.'
'Say something mean and I can get you sent to the maw.'
tight loom
pelagos > everyone else in the meta
inland grotto
I was rooting for uther tbh
hasty coral
It feels that was done on purpose because... well. Do I want to say it and risk getting booted?
tight loom
Don’t worry we’re the Maw Alker we’re already special 🙂
tight loom
It feels that was done on purpose because... well. Do I want to say it and risk ...
that’s dumb and also being coy about it isn’t pretty lol
inland grotto
Is it that bad
tight loom
but imagine if he were beeg
hasty coral
I'll spoiler it just in case. ||I feel they're putting Pelagos in this postion of power BECAUSE he's their first Trans character. We can all agree that, currently, it's out of left field and makes no sense story wise CURRENTLY.|| That's my take, and I'll leave it at that.
hasty coral
Cynical, sure. But can you refute it?
tight loom
Here’s the thing though
I honestly don’t feel like them creating their first trans character and going “let’s make him important” is inherently a bad thing
Honestly it’s kinda good, much better than having two girls kiss in a throwaway scene in rise of skywalker or whatever and getting your points and going
hasty coral
It's not. But thrusting him into a position of supreme cosmic power because first trans is horrible, horrible writing.
tight loom
thrusting him into a position of supreme cosmic power without foreshadowing it and leading up to it is bad writing
hasty coral
But as I said, it's current story. It could very well change in 9.2
naive pecan
Idk, whatever the reason might be, I think it's so out of left field
tight loom
whether he’s trans or not
naive pecan
There's so many better characters to take the spot
And then our non-binary soulbind boy takes it
It's so random
tight loom
and presumably 9.2 is gonna have a lot to tie it together, the question is how much it’ll miss
hasty coral
Uther, for example, would of made a fine Arbiter.
tight loom
Is he non-binary? Thought he was trans
hasty coral
Was non-binary at first. But the ONLY MEMORY OF LIFE he has is being a woman.
inland grotto
Idk if it’s ever clarified
tight loom
Either way idk I wonder if this is something that wouldn’t be that bad if it hadn’t been datamined/leaked
tight loom
but it’s objectively dumb that it hasn’t been set up and foreshadowed and stuff in 9.0 and 9.1
naive pecan
I mean he's definitely gonna go bonkers and get a sick sixpack and grow 500% in size
so that's cool
tight loom
pelagos with wings?
hasty coral
No no. Pelagos is Zovaals offspring, and thus Arbiter by birthright.
inland grotto
but it’s objectively dumb that it hasn’t been set up and foreshadowed and stuff ...
On the one hand people call blizzard out for having very predictable writing, but then when they don’t it’s shit like this
hasty coral
It's Last of Us 2 tier writing.
tight loom
wher good storytelling
inland grotto
Good thing Christie Golding is on the case
tawny rapids
i am unsure how many care about writing unless its completely garbo
hasty coral
At this point I try not to care.
inland grotto
I think bad lore writing has been a complaint for a long time
hasty coral
But it's hard not to point and laugh at poor writing.
tight loom
There’s some good bits and some good characters which makes it more frustrating
naive pecan
I've legitimately enjoyed some of WoW story
But then there's times when it's just awful
tight loom
Flynn and like all of the story in drustvar in bfa I really loved, kleia’s story in shadowlands is quite good
naive pecan
Legion had a lot of really good bits, but a lot of hick ups as well
I really enjoyed the Emerald Nightmare/N'zoth thing over the years
tawny rapids
legion was rly nice, the surramar questline was great
inland grotto
Without a new guy
hasty coral
Well, the Zovaal fight is directly messing with Azeroth. So I think she's gonna wake up, deck him in the face and, yeah.
tight loom
let’s get groundeddddddd pls
hasty coral
Maybe we'll be living on an actual Titan, Xenoblade style.
tight loom
I do miss Azeroth
naive pecan
Yeah, it looks like Jailer is looking to destroy Azeroth and/or use the big ass sword in Silithus to do something
inland grotto
Azeroth wakes up
“Hey guys void lords exist go fight them I’ll throw you”
naive pecan
So I'm expecting a Cataclysm-esque thingy in 10.0
where we go back to killing boars in new old zones
tawny rapids
didn't they hint a cataclysm inspired direction?
naive pecan
Kinda yeah
naive pecan
inland grotto
That is just unused
tawny rapids
blizz is rly bad at preserving old content
naive pecan
It's a long read but you can skim through it
hasty coral
Magni about to come and RKO Zovaal for messing with Azerite.
inland grotto
blizz is rly bad at preserving old content
One of the biggest flaws imo
tawny rapids
timewalking is their approach, but its a half baked solution
inland grotto
They have a system but instead of iterating on it and fixing it they just throw it in the dumpster and make a new, worse version, for the next expansion
inland grotto
Idk might be a hot take but I kinda want to have to go to cata and unlock X thing or go to legion and get my artifact weapon maxed and level my heart of Azeroth
It doesn’t have to be the full grind obviously
But just some passive effects from that expansion carry on
hasty coral
I want nothing of SL to carry over. Maybe some covenent abilities as talents/skills.
inland grotto
Like for sin, you could get a nerfed version of double dose as a passive for doing a bit of bfa content
Not like “oh my god I need to do dailies in bfa until I die”
But like you get an achieve for exploring and a couple quests or something, and you unlock it
Maybe 2 weeks, gate it a bit
Tie some stuff together
hasty coral
Give DHs the Hunt.
inland grotto
Instead of feeling like your character is resetting every patch/expac
median heath
Make whoever the Arbiter. Once we fuck off out of the Shadowlands I'll never give it any more thought.
inland grotto
Yeah kinda sad ain’t it
Literally watching a god of an entire realm of afterlives ascend to their position
And 4 months later we just don’t give a shit
median heath
It is. I just find it hard to believe that it'll ever matter again in the context of WoW's story.
hasty coral
At least it's not Sylvanas.
hasty coral
They still choose a horrible route though.
median heath
Oh no doubt, but the more I think about it, the more I just feel like it doesn't matter.
Because once we are done with SL, how much of what goes on there will have any impact on the story moving forward?
hasty coral
Depends.
'The sword has been removed and the portal to the afterlife cannot be mended! Oh well. Lets live together in harmony.'
'When you die on that side though, I get dibs on your soul. Just saying, your religion doesn't matter. I AM ALL!' - Pelagos.
inland grotto
They’re just setting up for pelagos turning evil and shadowlands 2.0 just like legion was tbc 2.0 with illidan 
hasty coral
Sylvanas will be Pelagos right hand.
median heath
Does there still need to be a Jailer after Zovaal is defeated?
hasty coral
Yeah.
inland grotto
Not because he has a special role
hasty coral
He's basically Satan in Divine Comedy. A prisoner, not a ruler.
inland grotto
Yeh
hasty coral
Until he learned Domination magic anyway.
median heath
They did exile him, but he still had to oversee souls who didn't fit in any of the other afterlives/realms.
Maybe they think that is no longer necessary?
inland grotto
Idk the maw is for despicable souls right
Just throw them in there I guess
Let them figure it out
naive pecan
The thing is
We don't really know what the Jailer even wants
It was kind of assumed that he wants to become the Arbiter again
hasty coral
He was exiled and then replaced by an Automaton, the Arbiter that got nuked.
naive pecan
But he's pretty much turned to the ultimate bad guy and now he suddenly wants to eradicate everything and everyone
hasty coral
He just wanted knowledge of the First Ones. When he pushed for it, the others went 'Nope' and exiled him.
lunar jasper
But he's pretty much turned to the ultimate bad guy and now he suddenly wants to...
bruh
its litearlly stated like 30x that he just wants to dominate reality itself
not destryo everything
just what he did with anduin, aka domination mind control, but with literally everything that exist
naive pecan
I mean him going ham on Azeroth is not exactly reality domination
lunar jasper
he wants the world soul
aka
most powerfull titan that exsist
the thing all the extremly big bads in warcraft want
from burning legion to void lords, all want the world soul cus when you have it, you more or less can do whatever you want with reality
slate basin
what does do what you want with reality even mean
argus is eredars worldsoul right
and i thought most people just agreed argus entering the shadowlands is what fuckied things up to begin with
so assuming azeroths souls does something similar [random thing] happens??
can kinda see what they were trying to do with kleia and pelagos as characters but they just missed the giant chunk of actual storytelling required to make anyone feel anything from ascension
inland grotto
Recolor pog
lunar jasper
so assuming azeroths souls does something similar [random thing] happens??
its because of how ridicolous MORE powerfull azeroth is
slate basin
but he's trying to kill azeroth by the looks of things
lunar jasper
like, even sargeras, who was the strongest titan was suprised by how strong she was when he saw just a spark of her
he didnt try to kill azeroth, he wanted to corrupt it
slate basin
so he's going to obtain it by killing it so the soul enters the shadowlands?
lunar jasper
the sword thing was just the last thing he COULD do
aka "if i cant have it, nobody else should"
molten iron
kind of off topic but...
hasty coral
I like this.
willow gyro
From the lore and fight descriptions I have read, it's going to look like nyalotha 2.0
Instead of forge of origination it's now machine of origination
And the last phase sounds like argus stuff
hasty coral
Argus with Azshara.
willow gyro
Argus with Azshara.
Why Azshara?
hasty coral
Line of Sight mechanics for Zovaal.
willow gyro
Aahhh
midnight topaz
so
how exactly is pelagos trans
i'm not really a lore guy but from the kyrian campaign I didn't really get that
misty holly
he mentions being a female in his previous life
hasty coral
It's the only memory he has of his life.
misty holly
i think you had to go out of your way to get it
hasty coral
Yeah. You go click Pelagos as a Kyrian inside the sanctum, is when he spills his heart.