#Skadooshbag Thread
chilly widget
sterile locust
Ty sir!
ebon holly
ty
timid badger
also that mfd outside of flag, does it show i have flag coming off cd? I can't se anything from the actual logs site at the moment
ebon holly
A lot going on here. The MFD to get refresh is fine but vanish windows are for maximizing CP gains, so mut env mut should be the goal. The MFD reset should have been before the vanish.
Finish, vanish, mut env mut
That 2nd MFD however you should have held for the upcoming flag
the rule is hold MFD up to 15sec for flag
timid badger
yeah my flag seems to be missing from there and idk why. i may have pressed the button beofre it cam eoff cd and didn't realize. which boss we looking at?
ebon holly
the nine
I am just pulling info from the single target portion, so P2
fundamentals and all
timid badger
yeah thats another thing i need to remember. i see vendetta up so i assume flag is off CD, but I forget that I've casted Flag again with MfD earlier
so i'm still waiting for it to come back off CD
sterile locust
To the very basic of basic things, and the strict things I’d work on to fix before you cut to finer details (this fight is the eye):
- your garrote uptime is very low and your rupture uptime is a little low. Bleeds are our primary source of energy regen here.
- you missed casts of a lot of things, trinket (x2)vendetta, vanish. All of which will contribute to a lower parse. You don’t have to focus the eye in particular for these as the adds are up for a bit.
- You also had a circa 10% energy wasted, this could be movement or waiting on debuff to drop, or a myriad of other things. But these are the things I’d work on primarily.
Also you hit the abducter twice with winds which was pretty unfortunate
ebon holly
To the very basic of basic things, and the strict things I’d work on to fix befo...
Last point quake, I think a lot of that was frost debuff or moving out of shields
timid badger
The way we ran the adds is we went one side, down to 15%, jumped to other side. While we were running to first eye, I was putting damage on the abductor so thats probably why my winds hit twice
sterile locust
For the eye? @ebon holly
ebon holly
For 9 sorry
sterile locust
Yeah I was looking at the more PW-esque fight between the two
sterile locust
The way we ran the adds is we went one side, down to 15%, jumped to other side. ...
Ahhhh well that solves that 🙂 happens sometimes
ebon holly
ah, yea I like P2 9, it's a good little sample size for ST and good mechanics
timid badger
And yes, the lack of energy cause of no Vigor is making me refresh Garrote and Rupture late
timid badger
right. not used to pooling or holding
for trinket, i have my trinket tied to my vendetta macro, that explains why i'm missing uses of that. I like to have it when I have vendetta up or should i use it on cd after open?
sterile locust
Yeah that’s going to be important in your rotation
ebon holly
Yea use on CD
ebon holly
well not with obe
ebon holly
This log I saw Obe
timid badger
Obe/MfD is what i ran last night
ebon holly
If you plan to run more dashing then to flag is fine, if you run Obe I would get a button for that
sterile locust
And do it that way
ebon holly
good practice to have a general WA that tracks both trinket slots and two buttons for dedicated on use trinkets
I can link my WA if needed
timid badger
so if my trinket won't be up for my second flag, should I use it on CD then or just link it with my third flag?
because of obe
ebon holly
Yea trinket on CD
Fusion Amp is just straight DPS, not really any interactions with flag
timid badger
ok
sterile locust
No interactions with anything
timid badger
and yeah i typicall ysave my vendettas for boss, but you are saying use it regardless even if its on an add on the eye
ebon holly
There's some really really advanced interactions with it but that's some giga minded madness and def not worth
sterile locust
You lost a cast of vendetta and vanish
timid badger
ok thats easy
sterile locust
And it’s not like it’s a 6:15 kill where you lost some value by like 5 seconds
You lost a full vendetta value, unfortunately
ebon holly
Side note about the Eye, you can cloak with about 4 seconds left on the debuff and it won't refresh so you can cheese that. Not sure what strat you did
timid badger
biggest thing for me i believe is muscle memory and timing. having used vigor so much my timing of everything is different now cause of less energy and less energy regen
which debuff?
oh
ebon holly
Assassination is a lot of patience and preplanning. Every ST fight will basically look and feel the same for most part in terms of what to press when.
even with vigor
timid badger
you can cloak the debuff from the other eyes? does it completely remove it and let me get across to the other faster?
ebon holly
You can, it doesn't remove the current stacks but it prevents another one from getting added on
Cloak around 4sec remaining on the debuff and you won't get another
timid badger
oh. we were all moving same time to the next eye so we let it all drop off together, but thats good to know
well i'll definitely remember a lot of this, make sure my trinket is on a button i can press on cd, try to preplan for pandemic so i'm refreshing better, pay attention to when mfd is coming off of cd so i don't use it again before flag which i've typically been mfd during open, one in between, then next for flag, another one in between, then everything is coming off cd about the same time so i can vendetta/flag/vanish/mfd together
appreciate you guys taking the time to do this. Like these little things like bleeds i'm aware of and I think it comes down to patience so instead of oh i've got 5 cps lets envenom but rupture is aboutto hit pandemic i should rupture first
should i just queue up LFR and practice on those bosses?
timid badger
well dummies makes sense to get it down. bosses are more practical because it throws in the mechanics
but i'm definitely going to hit the dummy when i get home today. if anything to figure out where i want to put trinket because all of my buttons are pretty much taken so I wonder if i can just link it to something like in a macro and then just working on pandemic timings since those seem to be the big things for now
but i am from time to time mindful like oh i have 4 cps, but shiv is up or garrote is going to need refreshed so use those first then finish for 5 cp finisher, but also need to pay attention to timers more like garrote or rupture and pre plan so i refresh them at the start of pandemic instead of in the middle or the bottom. if you are at 4 cps and don't have garrote or shiv to give you that extra 1, does it make sense to FoK for a 5 cp rupture?
or 5 cp envenom
ebon holly
Eventually with enough practice you're going to know intrinsically when to refresh your bleeds, maybe a second or two before pandemic or you'll know that you are going to refresh them with low durations instead of right when pandemic window hits
also no. finisher rule is max or max-1
don't fok or pk for the extra
timid badger
pk?
ebon holly
Poison Knife
timid badger
oh poison knife
ok makes sense, but if i have shiv up or need to refresh garrote does it make sense to do it then?
ebon holly
ideally you won't ever need to refresh in the shiv windows. If you some reason you do, bleeds take prio
You can always let the bleeds get to 1s and refresh them then and it still counts, don't need to refresh right at pandemic
timid badger
and yes having played vigor so much my timing is based on all that extra energy and regen and without it, i feel the starvation so its literally retraining my brain
oh ok. i thought you wanted to refresh at the start of pandemic
ebon holly
Pandemic just means that you take the remaining time and add that to your new one
So for example: If you have 5sec left on rupture and you apply a rupture with 32sec you'll now have a bleed on the target for 37sec
so if you refresh at 1sec then you'd only add that one second, but you aren't losing time
timid badger
ok. i'm wondering how i don't have a lot of uptime on bleeds then because even if i'm not refreshing at the start of pandemic i very rarely let them fall off
ebon holly
refreshing too early, you lose out on difference. So let's make these numbers easy to understand, they aren't actuals. If you have 15 seconds left on rupture but the pandemic window is 10 seconds, you lose those 5 seconds
timid badger
that i understand. i thought th erule was refresh at the top of pandemic to get the most out of it so you didn't have to refresh again so soon
ebon holly
At any point in the pandemic window you can refresh without penalty
So from like 8.4sec to 0.1sec you still maintain uptime
timid badger
but there are points in like eye during intermission where you can't reapply so thats sort of nnothing you can do about right
ebon holly
But let's say in a 6 minute fight you let a bleed fall off for 5 seconds, that about 1.5% uptime lost. So it's important to keep that in mind, it may not seem like much when there is 94% uptime but that's 20sec of downtime.
And you are correct, fight mechanics often dictate uptime
timid badger
ok
ebon holly
So you can roughly calculate potential downtime but you can also compare to top logs since they are most likely near maximum uptime on bleeds
I look at assassination as finding the best points to apply/reapply bleeds. They need to be up. But you can maximize your shiv, vendetta/vanish windows etc by using them less there. Often times you'll see top rogues let bleeds get near zero at the end of vend for an extra envenom and then refresh outside of it
timid badger
yes i do notice that garrote has to be refreshed in vendetta window, but i was told to let rupture run down so you get max mut/envenoms while vendetta is up
not all the way down, but i mean refresh it outside of vendetta
ebon holly
You will have to use one GCD for garrote iirc. Rupture I think you can refresh right before with a large pandemic window and not have to. I haven't played a lot of sin recently but that was the consensus for a bit
timid badger
well i flag, vendetta ruputure shiv mut, vanish so i'm already into my vendetta window before it hits pandemic
in the open
based off memory, its at like 2 seconds once vendetta ends so im still able to refresh it safely. i think for me the biggest thing is not spamming mutilate with mfd
like i don't wanna waste energy, but i also realize without vigor if i use it to often i'm sitting there waiting to use a finisher
thats why in my open i noticed that for a GCD after I cast my second mutilate, I can't garrote and continue. So instead of waiting for that energy to come back, I use the BElf racial to give me 15 back which has let immediately garrote after and keep going
should we ever use PK if we are at a distance to start building CPs?
ebon holly
No. You can shadowstep in or door of shadows
timid badger
I mean like on Tarragrue, Soulrender during intermission, Syl during Veil
ebon holly
Yea if there's no possible way to get there and you won't be at an energy deficit. I feel like the only time that's true is far and few between. There are a lot of ways to get back to Sylv during veil and if you spend energy there it won't be back when you get back on her. Soulrender you usually run past or can be on him a few times during dance
Tarragrue I guess if it's far safe spot but usually one if not two are melee range
timid badger
ok
ebon holly
Like what comes to mind for that is a spot like Sire from p1 to p2 where you can't reach him. Sylvanas P1 to P2 where she is immune if the melee is all clogged
timid badger
yeah i just build to 5 before we go to p2 so i can snd as we run up for first burn