Dota

[vital pollen]

feel like

reso/zayac were the main reason for their success

in TI

[errant tusk]

has to be nisha rly

he's in such peak form for past 1.5-2 seasons

[vital pollen]

idk

i feel like in the current state of affairs for most teams

having a godking mid player is nice, but its not winning you games, because most teams have a very very strong mid as well. maybe not as good, but like, when you have people like NTS, sumail, maybe, gpk, abed, nine, stormstormer etc.

maybe none of them except gpk and maybe were on nishas level but like

[errant tusk]

maybe doesnt have pieces around him that are nearly close to his level

[vital pollen]

its not as big of a difference maker

[errant tusk]

sorry i meant NTS

not maybe

[vital pollen]

ye true

[errant tusk]

sumail is in nigma prison with ammar playing brood pos 1

and he turned out to be too 1 dimensional and cant make it work

like his entrance to the scene was explosive and great

[vital pollen]

but still, i felt like the one thing that really gave secret an edge in TI and allowed them to surpass other teams, wasnt nisha. he overplayed a lot actually. but reso/zayac offlane was just incredibly powerful and dismantled many teams drafts

[errant tusk]

reinvented the way how you play from offlane

also he made razor/timber nerfed

if his 1st breakthrough tournament was TI he would be a ti champion

gpk teams have some issues

but thats the old vp team issue too

they just crumble under pressure or underperform in lan

i dont know even how to describe it

[vital pollen]

well sure, all im saying is that nisha being nisha wasnt what made secret as successful in TI. just one mans opinion ofc

[errant tusk]

or sorry in biggest lans rather

when it matters

like TI type stuff

idk vp is weird one i guess

they are kings of majors

but TI they always disappointed

[vital pollen]

you always have the starplayer mid in almost every team it feels

so they just cancel each other out

[errant tusk]

i feel like abed gets too few resources sometimes and rtz takes too much

and rtz isnt worth it anymore

[vital pollen]

difference maker is usually the carry or pos3+4 duo

idk i feel like rtz was never worth it

[tacit epoch]

Ok but Nigma with miracle had worse results than with ammar last year

[errant tusk]

i think rtz should transition more into utility type player/offlane from safelane

[vital pollen]

only time he had success was with a stronger farming mid player

[tacit epoch]

Granted it's one season so far

[errant tusk]

i just cant not latch to someone playing so exotic

with such weird picks

[vital pollen]

rtz got his fame for streaming in the early days when almost no pro did it

[errant tusk]

and they didnt make major

like sure they maybe play better

but still not good enough to make majors

[vital pollen]

hes a very marketable player, but he was never the good carry people make him out to be

[errant tusk]

and you'd expect them tom ake them

[vital pollen]

member vanguard alchemist?

sprouteezy?

cliffteezy?

those happened during his "prime"

[errant tusk]

they still made top 4 or top 3 dont remember

whihc is good result for them

all the teams that lost besides the finals game

lost because they did some very stupid last pick

like entity losing

because they last pick some stupid silencer

[vital pollen]

rtz needs to be the notail to miracle/topson, the matu to miracle, the fear to sumail

[errant tusk]

that goes 0-10

same wtih eg

lose because you pick some stupid luna

that does nothing in video game

sorry i mean shopify

[vital pollen]

but ye i mean

[errant tusk]

i call them eg

[vital pollen]

TI was won by offlane zoo meta

[errant tusk]

too hard to fight that

[vital pollen]

secret was the better team imo

cause they had more playstyles

[errant tusk]

ye ti was won from offlane

[vital pollen]

but more often than not

[errant tusk]

it was clash of playstyles on offlane

and 33 won with his team oriented/zoo meta

[vital pollen]

TI grandfinals are not the best series of the tournament

[errant tusk]

with pipes and wraith pact

reso played pos 1 from offlane

kinda

[vital pollen]

ye

and it allowed them to beat stronger teams

[errant tusk]

and 33 played utility/aura stacker

i think saksa was playing like god too that ti

[vital pollen]

the reso carry play felt like it was the better strat against the top teams, just didnt work vs zoo

[errant tusk]

and nine enabled a lot in the draft

2 other players were disposable

imo

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

they played well ofc

but put most t1 carries in their slot or most 5 players in their slot and its gonna work too

[tacit epoch]

Early data for alch seems promising

[errant tusk]

actually maybe sneyking

had mirana 5

that only they knew how to play

so maybe he enabled them too idk

[vital pollen]

an uptick in alchemist winrate/playrate

[errant tusk]

but skiter definitely disposable, didnt rly have anything iconic

[vital pollen]

is not "promising"

[errant tusk]

just solid play all around

[vital pollen]

fuck that hero

[tacit epoch]

They reduced radiance cost (relic cost to be more precise)

So alch might come back

[vital pollen]

i hate any hero that makes you not play dota anymore

[errant tusk]

im kinda disappointed witrh how pakaz played this tournament i thought he was gonna rise to be best carry

but after his furion troll items

[vital pollen]

tinker/alch/old techies/brood

[errant tusk]

[tacit epoch]

I didn't understand pakaz kunkka

[errant tusk]

spectre got kinda b uffed this patch

[tacit epoch]

Spec back to radiance?

[errant tusk]

possibly

but also nullifier big buff

[tacit epoch]

The mangoes got nerfed tho

[vital pollen]

sad to see spirit struggle this much

[errant tusk]

that item is only like 4,3k life

well its mostly just larl needs lan experience

[vital pollen]

yatoro still the best carry player imo (not counting pure)

[tacit epoch]

Spirit felt like they either click and make phenomenal plays
Or don't click ajd just crumble

[errant tusk]

ye pure imo is the best

he is just in a weird team

[vital pollen]

then again pure hasnt had time to show this tournament performance yet either

[errant tusk]

that has issues outside of the game

which is very sad

[tacit epoch]

I can see spirit being the best team if they stick together

[errant tusk]

because that team

[vital pollen]

so maybe he crumbles just as much

[errant tusk]

like looking at betboom team

[vital pollen]

btu pure strikes me as a player

like OG sumail

who actually plays better on lan and with the stress

cuz his ego is just that big

[errant tusk]

they have pretty much best players in their roles

[vital pollen]

that it boosts him

[errant tusk]

for their region

maybe besides collapse

and toronto

[tacit epoch]

He's fun to watch as well

Different carry every game

[vital pollen]

toronto kinda the CIS NTS imo

underrated mid

[errant tusk]

well he's 5 now

so thats why i said he isnt best in region

for that pos

coz i rated him as 5

[vital pollen]

ah oke

[errant tusk]

and then nightfall vs collapse

id rather have collapse

but then id def rather have gpk and pure and save on 4

but thats in vacuum when they have 0 issues outside of server

which they do

[vital pollen]

i still feel like

[errant tusk]

coz no way you can dominate your region so much

[vital pollen]

all you need is

[errant tusk]

but then bomb out

[vital pollen]

solid mid, and a king 3+4 duo

to win game

and a warding champ on 5

[errant tusk]

the thing about pure is

this guy innovates and is creative in dota

which is rather rare

most people just copy spammers

[vital pollen]

basically you need a 4 that doesnt die everytime they initiate for you, cuz the 3 isnt who's initiating anymore

but then you see tinys and clocks

that are

0-10-7 or smth

and just have no item progression past their first item

[tacit epoch]

Isn't clock preferably a 5 atm

[errant tusk]

could be because of ranged meta from pos 1

so clock is rly good then with them

[vital pollen]

also a hero that doesnt get bullied easily by opponents 4

[tacit epoch]

Primal as pos 4 feels very nice tho

[vital pollen]

yeah but if you get primal in draft, why not play it 2 or 3

[tacit epoch]

Role queue

(x

[vital pollen]

i mean im strictly talking

competitive

[tacit epoch]

Fair

Primal didn't get any nerfs this patch either

[vital pollen]

this patch feels like

appeasing community for whats "broken"

think most of the big changes will be in the actual patch

[tacit epoch]

For an E patch it's pretty good content if you include cosmetics and hero

But the general expectation was bigger changes

They did mention it's an ambitious patch so idk

[errant tusk]

its just there was no patch for long time

and they say PATCH COMING ON XXX

and then its small shitter patch like that

when they announce patch on x day then people expect its big 7.33 type thing

or 34

[tacit epoch]

Well the big patch was supposed to be yesterday according to their initial plans

[errant tusk]

or w/e patch we're on

[tacit epoch]

But they didn't finish on time

[errant tusk]

they're just taking a piss

honestly

patch cycle is so slow

[tacit epoch]

I feel like the balance changes could've come out a month ago tho

[errant tusk]

noone enjoys it

[tacit epoch]

Considering they are not that big

https://youtu.be/Y9d91forKO8

That's kinda neat

[vital pollen]

yeah

if you do that

youre trolling

you already constantly run out of sentries in every gfame

[torn girder]

Ye cost reduction on rad is gonna make alch not balanced lol

Any sort of cost reduc on bf or rad is very scary

Accelerating the game of alch will usually result in him being broken

I wish it was enough to warrant radiance kunkka but probably not

[vital pollen]

i mean radi kunkka is already a thing in many pubs anyway so

just wont see it in pro games because radi as an item in general has fallen out of favor

for teh same reason AM has fallen out of favor. cant play carries anymore that arent able to contribute by minute 10-15

troll or PA can still do shit even if they just finished their BF

[torn girder]

Ye i mean having a radiance mid hero in comp is super grief

[vital pollen]

but a spec with radi minute 12 or smth is still not a scary hero until 10-15minutes later

[torn girder]

Magic kunkka just my favorite build on like any hero by far

I love his shard and aghs

[vital pollen]

you know youre on the clock, but you can typically close out games before that hero comes online enough for teamfights

alch on the other hand is just stupid

[torn girder]

Ye hero just utilizes gold in an op way lol

Letting him get his farm item faster is just very monka

Cuz then he gets every other item exponentially faster

[vital pollen]

its also the fact that he basically only has like 1 hero hardcounter

so you ban AA

then what

you gonna rely on vessel

or burst damage

but you can kill alch 3 times in 10 minutes and it wont matter

ive played and seen way too many alch games where the hero was kept down well enough in the early game, but it didnt matter

[torn girder]

Ye

Also how did they not buff void spirit LOL

[vital pollen]

dont think he needs a buff necessarly

think people just need to not play him as a 1 or 2

[torn girder]

Mayhe

[vital pollen]

think void 4 is still solid

[torn girder]

I also think people should explore a phys build on him in pos 2

[vital pollen]

ye

[torn girder]

They nerfed his spells a lot and he just falls off immediately when bkbs are bought

Just becomes a useless support attacker but why have that when you can have ember or storm do that better

[vital pollen]

i wonder what massive change they could make to affect the current meta

"you can no longer put consumables into your courier"

[torn girder]

That would be insane obviously

Would slow down the game immensely

Or could speed it up because people would get face rolled in lane and crushed

[vital pollen]

but yeah basically

its kinda impossible to do a meta shifting patch based off of the current meta imo

youd need like

a new feature or map changes or smth to really affect the meta

[torn girder]

I wish they’d slow the game down a bit

[vital pollen]

i think most heroes that needed proper reworks in the last 5+ years got them at this point, so the game is very "complete" imo

[torn girder]

Stuff like dusa mid just isn’t viable even slightly atm lol

Can only play a tempo guy in mid and its just boring as fuck

Especially when its uber hard to actually HARD lose mid these days

[vital pollen]

yeah, people have gotten a lot better at getting more resources out of the map than they used to. so over the last few years they added a bunch of stuff like new camps, more passive gold etc. to make supports not feel starved, but it also led to well-farming mids or carries being 6-slotted by minute 30 instead of 40 or50

[tacit epoch]

Troll ult needs a rework

[vital pollen]

someone reaching 600-700gpm in a winning games used to be insane, with very very few heroes being able to go beyond that. freefarming AM/alch/naga were like the only ones, with alch occasionally hitting 1k

nowdays basically every mid or carry is sitting at 600+ gpm by minute 20

gleipnir was a mistake

but now you just play maelstrom on any non-BF core

or your 1400gold shard lets you double your farming speed

[torn girder]

That hero is turbo ass imo

[vital pollen]

but with maelstrom upgrading into a very strong item after being a good farming powerspike, its just increased many heroes farming capabilities

[torn girder]

Not even just cause of his ult necessarily

[tacit epoch]

He's a great laner

[vital pollen]

troll is like huskar

hero that if you dont shut him down will dominate the game

[torn girder]

Never liked that hero

[vital pollen]

you should siumply be able to change targets during ult

so you cant just get dragged

[torn girder]

He feels really really bad like 99% of games

[vital pollen]

to fucking china

troll is the traditional anti-melee carry, its just that rn melee carries arent a thing as much so he lost his niche too

[tacit epoch]

Yeah it's annoying when you lock on enemy core but then they use something like shadowblade or manta and you get redirected to enemy tank

[vital pollen]

but yeah, idk how you get rid of the 800+ range carry meta

[errant tusk]

people got too good at kiting too

and supports are so rich

[torn girder]

Ye

[errant tusk]

one force staff counters troll

[vital pollen]

unless you give melee cores better ways to close gaps

[errant tusk]

or 1 euls

[torn girder]

Itemization is better

1 ghost

[errant tusk]

they'd need to give troll some insane burst

like ursa

because ursa is perfect hero in that regard

has defensive ulti

and infinite damage potential

he never falls off

[vital pollen]

i think

dragon lance has too good stats for ranged cores

[errant tusk]

dragon lance is most problematic item

since ever

back in the days you stacked it

[vital pollen]

well no

[errant tusk]

multiple copies of it

[vital pollen]

that will always be sange

back in the day you stacked perseverance

[errant tusk]

thats because of status res

well you just bought pers

on every carry

coz it was dmg + sustain

[torn girder]

Status res and healing increase

[errant tusk]

you still do buy ring

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

on lots of heroes

[torn girder]

Healing/lifesteal etc

[errant tusk]

for sustain

[vital pollen]

or helmet, ye

but i just feel like

repositioning is too powerful

on ranged cores

they shouldnt have that ability themselves

[tacit epoch]

Ranged core also benefit a lot from small stuff like flagbearer aura in laning

[vital pollen]

or struggle in some way with their health pools

but its not uncommon to see some high agi ranged core sporting 1500-2k hp by minute 20

[torn girder]

Ye lance does give a lot of beef

[vital pollen]

but when you have items like dragonlance or falcon blade giving you a bunch of extra HP

the inherent advantage of the melee core of being more tanky is suddenly lost

and even if you jump them

they just pike

so maybe youd need to remove the forcestaff from the recipe

have to rely on your supports for your positioning

or be forced to play blink

[torn girder]

Shadow blade

[vital pollen]

shadowblade was fine for example

didnt give any health

but pike is just

too stat efficient imo

for how much itdoes

[tacit epoch]

Pretty sure pike is also not dispellable by nulifier

Unlike force staff

[vital pollen]

http://puu.sh/JB0FQ/ab5147f64b.png

so like

4.5k gold

for those stats

is insane

with the forcestaff change that made it use fluffy hat instead of ring of regen

that was supposed ot help supports

it just buffed pike to be insane

[errant tusk]

they increased mana cost of force staff by a lot

which sucks for agi cores

most of them are mana starved

snipers drows

dont rly build mana regen items even

also on top of that bkb change some time ago with mana cost

[vital pollen]

well

thank god the item gives 250 mana

[errant tusk]

100 to 150 mana cost is big nerf

[vital pollen]

ye

but it wont stop

the ranged carry meta

thin kthe only hero that gets hit kinda hard by this

is drow

cause she uses mana to farm

[fallen token]

have to make a change and their arent really any good 1/2 available

like maybe iltw

[torn girder]

Iltw

Would rather take ramzes

[fallen token]

exactly

[torn girder]

Secret needs a pos 2 that is basically a carry player lol

Crystalis is basically a sacrifical 1

[fallen token]

rtz back to secret

[torn girder]

If crystalis doesn’t get some lane dominator pos 1 he just sucks balls

[tacit epoch]

https://clips.twitch.tv/TubularTriumphantTroutVoteNay-G-vy5uLMzAbNkE9y

[torn girder]

motherFUCKER

[tender fox]

Lol china Ban wave

[fallen token]

Muerta is so ass mang

I've seen this hero get insane leads and just fall over

[buoyant sage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZYfbBw7Mo0

on air tomorrow

[errant tusk]

[errant tusk]

[vital pollen]

neta

[buoyant sage]

[errant tusk]

[tacit epoch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/11u6hc0/dota_2_update_1732023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Muerta rebalancing

[torn girder]

Why does a beastmaster have same nw as morph on min 37 wtf

[fallen token]

morph bad farmer

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[torn girder]

Anti mage kinda sussy

Spirit has 100% win rate with it picks it pretty much any game its unbanned

[tender fox]

Lol insania is in my grocery store

[vital pollen]

[torn girder]

Take picture

With him

Hello insania i am noob plz picture

[tender fox]

nah im to old and not fangay enough

he was there with gf cba bothering

[fallen token]

Hero feels really good to play this patch

[fallen token]

mang i dont understand how the change to radiance suddenly makes it this good

[errant tusk]

400g difference is quite big

its like 1 minute faster timing

also its new change so its not figured out

and people like that item

so they make it on a lot of heroes 😄

its maybe not a lot better realistically

[torn girder]

it can also be disassembled which is

unironically pretty potent mechanic

when the item you can make with relic is rapier or null

[errant tusk]

true

i think its huge buff to nullifier

not like this item needed it

you buy purely for use

that item is kinda bad

coz its just 60 dam no stats

[torn girder]

but ye in general reducing cost of any farming item can have a powerful effect

[errant tusk]

https://i.redd.it/0l2xpieengpa1.gif

[tacit epoch]

Not convinced with meteor hammer being that good

[errant tusk]

coz its not

its just bunch of clowns buying it and LOOK WE CHAINED HAMMER ON THIS GUY ONCE

holy we're so good

(proceeds to lose the game because 0 impact besides that)

its the same like your 5 having good game

where he's rich for 5 standards

and instead of buying forcestaff + glimmer he buys some dogshit aghanim

that doesnt do anything because he dies to storm when he couldve glimmered and lived

and pressed 2 more spells

i think i might transition to 5 i just cba looking at my 5s buying completely grief items

and griefing my lane

but then im gonna get mad that my 1 is in wrong spot 24/7 and refuses to buy bkb

the endless dota cycle

[vital pollen]

Yep

It's worse with 4 though

The pos 4 aghs first

On shit like snap or shaker

[tacit epoch]

Your standard dark willow player

[errant tusk]

when i have warlock 5

and he rushes aghs

i know its lost

[vital pollen]

Yeah but 5 rarely has money for it

[errant tusk]

if game lasts 35-45 minutes

you can get it tbh

[vital pollen]

With a 4 it's fairly frequent that they can afford shit

[vital pollen]

Sure but they never have more than 500-1000g at a time

[errant tusk]

people in lower brackets farm too much on 4-5 pos

and show on lanes way too much

at least i think that way

[vital pollen]

Ehhh

[errant tusk]

like you should only show on dead lane

[vital pollen]

It's cuz their cores only farm

[errant tusk]

deepnds on heroes

[vital pollen]

And don't wanna do stuff

[errant tusk]

might be part of issue

[vital pollen]

So you're on support and could try some

[errant tusk]

but when i see my pos 4 or 5 in triangle

or in very easy spots

farming

you know

[vital pollen]

Double support smoke but that's not gonna do anything

[errant tusk]

im talking about that example

ye unless you have clock/sky

sometimes you just picked afk cores too

[vital pollen]

Most cores shove lane and then fuck off cuz objectives are scary and they don't wanna die

[errant tusk]

i think you overestimate people in high divine/low immortal bracket

[vital pollen]

So you rotate across half the map to sit behind your carry as he approaches enemy t1 minute 20

[errant tusk]

people build such bad items and play so bad

im impressed

some of these people have 12k-15k games

[vital pollen]

And you see 4 enemy heroes on other side of map

And he fucks off to jungle

And then you sit there as support having wasted time

[errant tusk]

i get it you can get unlucky with draft ofc

[vital pollen]

And you try to get objective by yourself

[errant tusk]

if you picked aba 5

and you have very passive cores

[vital pollen]

And 1 core TPS and kills you

[errant tusk]

then its rly bad ofc

coz you have noone to play with

and you cant do anything on your own

[vital pollen]

Yep

[errant tusk]

because you need hero like storm

or ember

that will go in

[vital pollen]

Just taking t1 would be enough

That opens up Map enough

To always have something to do

Whether it's warding or stacking or breaking smokes

[errant tusk]

taking you mid tower and enemy safelane tower is 2 most important early game objectives for sure

i agree

[vital pollen]

Not according to many cores

They don't move within 2k range of a tower

[errant tusk]

you always can bring 4-5 people to bring safelane tower ye

[vital pollen]

Even if you call for a push

They see

[errant tusk]

mid tower is muchn more difficult to take

and people always defend it

[vital pollen]

Big wave with 3 ranged creeps on offlane

[errant tusk]

unless your mid rly lost

then you have no mid tower minute 10

[vital pollen]

And they tp to farm

It's alright imo

You can often take mid after pushing offlane

Just rotate through jungle

Collapse on mid

With 2 supports and your 3

Problem often is

That your 3 isn't pushing tower

cuz they dont understand how valuable some early chipdmg on tower is

so they rather run

20seconds

to triangle

to stack or smth

instead of taking 30% off the t1

then you smoke with both supports to push offlane and might even get a kill, but tower is still full hp

[errant tusk]

you overestimate people tho im telling you

[vital pollen]

well eah but like

i dont have 15k games

how do i know this

but they dont

[errant tusk]

concept of picking fights is alien one even for top 1k players probably

thats hardest things in rts games too

[vital pollen]

like

[errant tusk]

one of the hardest thing*

[vital pollen]

i consider every game lost

if offlane t1 is still standing by minute 10

[errant tusk]

i have barely 4k games too

and i see these people

with 15k games

doing absolute baboonery

[vital pollen]

cuz you just fall behind in farm

without access to the enemy jungle and some triangle safety

[errant tusk]

people getting shitstomped onlanes they're favoured

or my pos 5

pulling creepwaves

[vital pollen]

and then your carry just keeps farming safelane

[errant tusk]

when we play disruptor + slark

[vital pollen]

gets ganked twice

[errant tusk]

vs tide/nyx lane

excuse me?

[vital pollen]

pings support and "WE NEED WARDS"

[errant tusk]

i literally

want to hit them both

[vital pollen]

when they havent helped push a single objective

[errant tusk]

forever

and dont wanna let them get single level

and he gives them

free lane

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

because he pulls creepwave

like what

[vital pollen]

or the typical

"lets over commit for a kill"

agianst a carry

towerdive minute 4 for a carry kill

when you can just leave him

20% hp

and force him to buy regen

and not be able to lasthit

[errant tusk]

also rly big issue is people dont know what their role is within the game

and then you have offlaner

afk triangle

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

or midlaners too

afk triangle

[vital pollen]

most offlaners think that if they have good early game

theyre the carry now

adn just farm more

instead of securing game for their team

why get some early teamfight as 3

when you can buy more farming items instead

and try to become pos1

and lose game

[errant tusk]

i took hefty break but after coming back my laning was rly much worse

but i swear i felt like game was slow mode

i kinda knew where people should've been

[vital pollen]

cause you didnt help take objectives with good itemization

[errant tusk]

or where i should be

even tho my laning mechanics were rly fucking off

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

i think my awareness got so much better

[vital pollen]

game is pretty scripted

when it comes to objectives

taking tower withotu siege creep for example

takes so long

so you just know

siege wave is coming

theyll push somewhere

unless theyre idiots ofc

cant predict badplay

[tacit epoch]

I find offlaner to be the hardest role

You have to balance maintaining some farm while helping out your team with initiations

[vital pollen]

its the highest impact role

[errant tusk]

i think whats most tilting for me is when supports 4/5 are showing on free lanes

where there is no danger

[vital pollen]

and its not that hard actually

[errant tusk]

so the enemy cores know

[vital pollen]

you finsih item

[errant tusk]

they're safe

[vital pollen]

you take objective

repeat

biggest problem is that the pos3 kinda has to guide the game in a lot of matches

unless you play a tempocontrol mid

so you have a great offlane

early networth lead

pos3 highest networth in the game

[tacit epoch]

I feel like I can do that from pos 4 with certain heroes

[errant tusk]

i think if you play 4 or 5

[vital pollen]

and then they should laneswap after taking t1

[errant tusk]

you just choose 1 player

you follow entire game

[vital pollen]

and let your carry farm offlane+triangle

[errant tusk]

the one that is most likely to do most stuff

so if you have storm or ember

[vital pollen]

but they dont

[errant tusk]

you kinda run after him

entire game

[vital pollen]

and then game is lost

or well

[errant tusk]

or if you have timber/necro

you gotta run after him

[vital pollen]

its suddenly 3x as hard

[errant tusk]

but then

i play sdpecter pos 1

and people follow me

[vital pollen]

thats the bad support mindset of

[errant tusk]

whben i 99% of the time wanna farm on theo thetr side of the map\

[vital pollen]

"if my carry dies its bad"

when losing your carry to a 4man or 5man smoke

isnt bad

if you take objective in return

[tacit epoch]

I'm not convinced spec should return to radiance tho, been seeing a lot of if atm

Feels like blademail aghs is more effective

[vital pollen]

only radiance hero is alchemist

change my mind

and like

rarely against pl or naga

even then youd rather have it on your pos3

[tacit epoch]

There's ppl running it on jugg

But that's pretty suspicious

[errant tusk]

spec is good with radi tbh

i pick radi

[vital pollen]

needs to be

[errant tusk]

when i see supports like wd/sky

[vital pollen]

super early tho

[errant tusk]

so i can go blademail + radi

and they cant play into me

[vital pollen]

and the battle spec build just happened to be a lot better

in the last2-3years

[errant tusk]

funnily enough

[vital pollen]

but all depends on game ofc

[errant tusk]

you pick specter

[vital pollen]

if you know

[errant tusk]

when you have like

[vital pollen]

you can farm

[errant tusk]

storm or ember

or axe

[vital pollen]

cuz you have a brawler team

[errant tusk]

so you can always join for +1

or nyx

[vital pollen]

with solid pos2/3

[errant tusk]

so you can aghs +1 for gank

with that person

[vital pollen]

ye

radi is if your team is just

4man getting shit done

but if your mid kinda lost

or your pos3 didnt control enemy carry well

radi is tough

you can still hold t2s if you have good waveclear and can hold towers fairly well

but its often an uphill battle

and just not fun for the rest of the team

to wait for spec to be done farming

cuz you cant fight with jsut radiance

[errant tusk]

ngl i kinda hate you cant have spy software

and its all because people are too fucking lazy to just make their profile private

xdd

every time i see tinker last pick

some level 30 memer

i feel like that change achieved nothing

[vital pollen]

http://puu.sh/JCBX2/d8a9cc89fa.jpg

new DK build is

weird but i love it

[tacit epoch]

Octarine seems to be the only odd item here

[tacit epoch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/121odfj/describing_quinn_with_1_image/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[torn girder]

average SEA dota game

[tacit epoch]

That's also EU

[fallen token]

but what if i manta dodge all their spells 🤔

[buoyant sage]

[fallen token]

one of my peak achievements was manta dodging rp once

[buoyant sage]

it's always satisfying

[fervent schooner]

TSM vs Nouns had a very interesting interaction with enemy fountains (RIP Gunnao)

[errant tusk]

@vital pollen

[vital pollen]

[errant tusk]

tell me you're playing against 33

without telling me you play against 33

[fallen token]

and he still got beast

[errant tusk]

naa he got darkseer

they picked beastmaster

so he cant take it

[fallen token]

i had the drafts backwards :P

[fallen token]

i fucking hate this disrupter hero man

glimpse makes me wanna rip my eyes out

[buoyant sage]

bkb or eul

[vital pollen]

psure you cant eul glimpse anymore

same as you cant phaseshift

can only bkb or manta dodge

or forced movement like burrow/ball lightning

[fallen token]

Yeah but it's so dumb that I have to bkb a 15 sec CD spell with 2000 range

[buoyant sage]

Idk I dont remember if it changed and you cant Euls anymore

but range is insane ye

[vital pollen]

dont be in vision then

its like

the only thing the hero does

is glimpse

[fallen token]

glimpse is one of the strongest spells in the game tho

[vital pollen]

and yet

raptorjesus was a dogshit hero

for like

2 years

[buoyant sage]

Distractor

🚜

[buoyant sage]

https://vxtwitter.com/NoContextDota2/status/1642715373152931840

the shit you only see in dotka

[torn girder]

Actually cc’d to death

[fallen token]

update when

[errant tusk]

end of april

so like 3ish weeks

[errant tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/goblin-tinker-warcraft3-gif-15229641

@vital pollen

[vital pollen]

No

[tacit epoch]

Tinker's winrate

[errant tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-dota-gif-26396077

when seli sees tinker in his game

[errant tusk]

thats what happens when data is hidden so you cant just blindly pick it to steal it from him

or ban

even tho i always ban him

[tacit epoch]

Yesterday I learned something new

If lifetsealer inftests a jungle creep and clinkz devours it

Clinkz gains giga health and damage

[fallen token]

Goblin tinker

What a silly little guy

[buoyant sage]

https://www.twitch.tv/esl_dota2

Dreamleague s19

[fallen token]

Is king back to mid?

[buoyant sage]

king as in Sumail? it's usually his nickname

[tacit epoch]

Ye sumail is mid

[fallen token]

Yeah

[buoyant sage]

got 2-0'd by OG

[tacit epoch]

Unsurprisingly

[vital pollen]

https://twitter.com/Cyborgmatt/status/1646646471809437696?s=20

Matthew Bailey (@Cyborgmatt)

Holy shit, the hype is real. Leaked comms from Berlin Major teams:

"We wanted to provide advance warning that it's SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER than a normal gameplay patch."

Best part? Patch drops next week.

"We're aiming for release early afternoon (PST) on Thursday, April 20th." 🔥

Likes

255

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 13, 2023, 10:48 PM

[fallen token]

ill believe it when i see it

[tacit epoch]

5 gb patch incoming

[tight sluice]

Valve ain't doing shit

[buoyant sage]

will see

always a thing to open your mouth before you even see

[tight sluice]

They jebaited me last month

[tacit epoch]

It's gonna be out

[buoyant sage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3_F2oLfTzY

lul

[buoyant sage]

tundra vs liquid now
https://www.twitch.tv/esl_dota2

[tacit epoch]

Liquid got 2-0'd by GG yesterday

[buoyant sage]

indeed

[tacit epoch]

No saksa tho

[buoyant sage]

nisha

[tacit epoch]

The PA show

[torn girder]

Saksa is on tundra tho

[tacit epoch]

he took a break and didn' play today

[torn girder]

^

talking about that

thought you were saying like "no saksa though" as in liquid weaker lol

[errant tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[buoyant sage]

BLINK IN WITH QOP

INSTA DIE

[errant tusk]

i rly like shadow demon

he's bad on lane

but if you can get to 30 minute in the game and be relevant

feelsgood to play

his aghs is so stupid good

[buoyant sage]

nisha is so good at this game

[vital pollen]

80 kills in 40min game

[vital pollen]

@errant tusk you see this morph gaming

morph is winning, which makes me sad, but tinker is losing

balance in all things

[fallen token]

did they say the date for the patch>

[vital pollen]

Tomorrow

Allegedly

[errant tusk]

i dont even play this game

[tacit epoch]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/570?emclan=103582791433224455&emgid=5657125992544624748

Ye it's 20th

[distant yoke]

patch soon?

[buoyant sage]

today ye

[tender fox]

lina patch cus released on 420

[distant yoke]

valve has big pressure

too many comments about how big this patch is

for it to be some smol shit

[tacit epoch]

They did mention it's an ambitious patch

[buoyant sage]

valve themselves said it was a big ass patch

[distant yoke]

Now just need to deliver

[vital pollen]

doom -2 armor

[torn girder]

[distant yoke]

pls gaming lords

let at least one company deliver on patches

[vital pollen]

they will

if they say

its a massive one

then i expect it to be like

the talent one

or neutral item

[fallen token]

who will be getting +1 armour

any betters

[vital pollen]

ogre

[distant yoke]

must be map changes too

[vital pollen]

ye

changing some trees

[distant yoke]

moving rosh

a bit

perhaps

[vital pollen]

broshan

2nd boss

[distant yoke]

ive heard ppl want a 2nd boss

league style

and just

no

or

[vital pollen]

nah

if they do smth like that

theyll do it in like

both jungles

like a minor objective

that you can invade enemy jungle for

more like red/blue buffs in league, than a roshan style objective

[torn girder]

People want the dire side advantage of roshan gone

[vital pollen]

idk

i honestly

dont even care that much

about that

i just want dire jungle to not be infinitely better

with multiple camps you can double stack

vs radiant

some ramp reworks would be nice as well

[torn girder]

Ye its kinda hilarious how much better dire side jungle is than radiant

[vital pollen]

i dont even think

that dire has that big a rosh advantage

its just their jungle is so much better

[tacit epoch]

Ye feels way nicer to farm dire camps

So compact

[torn girder]

Ye the 2 camps below the outpost are just way closer together than the ones in radiant side

[tacit epoch]

They did post some hints on what patch notes are gonna look like

Some stuff with 0 intellect

[vital pollen]

basically every camp in dire jungle is better

smol camp is closer to lane, you can pull the big camp close to t1 into the tower by cutting a single tree, smth thats entirely impossible on radiant, you can double or even triple stack the 3 med camps in the center, and the one big camp close to t2 has a much shorter leash time than the radiant one as well

[fallen token]

if they make radiant jungle easier to stack and closer to lane itll be close

[vital pollen]

dire also has less useful hill wards

the one between mid/top t2 for dire, doesnt really see shit. meanwhile the one right in front of radiant t2, sees outpost, 2 camps and the entire lane

[tacit epoch]

I feel like they should tone down high ground defense a bit

[vital pollen]

also change early level kill gold again

[tacit epoch]

Sometimes seems like an impossible task with sniper or drow defending

[vital pollen]

its fine in pro play but like

early kills are worth nothing

[tacit epoch]

Yeah pro supports just

Suicide to towers

When they are out of resources

[fallen token]

they need to remove the hidden modifier on my account that causes me to uphill miss more than average

i stg i miss like 10 range creeps a game because of it

in mid

[vital pollen]

what is

pakaz doing

the fuck

lemme just farm this medium camp while carrying gem with 4 enemy heroes around the corner against bounty+disruptor

[fallen token]

"pakaz" pretty sure that answers your question

guy is insane

QUINN

na classic buyback

[tacit epoch]

https://youtu.be/3dZnoSMoK4Q

[torn girder]

WHERE PATCH FROGMAN

GIVE ME DOTA NOTES TO READ BRUV

[tight sluice]

time for E patch

real patch in june

[vital pollen]

GIEF PATCH

[distant yoke]

PATCH WHERE?

[vital pollen]

like 3hrs

[distant yoke]

liquid just has to stomp

OG

and they release it

[fallen token]

arc warden game

we arent getting patch for like another 2 hours

oh wait its pos 4 naga

[versed matrix]

og disband

[vital pollen]

liquid wants this game to be over quickly

clown game

[versed matrix]

this is just a pub game

[fallen token]

og actually clowing

[vital pollen]

both teams

[torn girder]

game over

lets go

7.33

give it

[errant tusk]

https://www.dota2.com/patches/7.33

looks huge

but its way too late for me to read it all

[torn girder]

B I G M A P

alright they were not lying

this patch seems very large

[vital pollen]

oh boy

[dire anchor]

nani the fuck are these notes

!??!?!??!!

[torn girder]

spell characters not useless after 20 mins poggers

[dire anchor]

ye i kinda like that bkb change

[torn girder]

void spirit no longer an int character but a universal

[dire anchor]

can someone smarter than me explain the implications?

[vital pollen]

tinker dead

[torn girder]

hm ye

good point

[vital pollen]

not sure if bkb prevents mutes

muerta instantly going to captains mode

[torn girder]

faded broach readded

[vital pollen]

fucking ogre

0 int hero

[dire anchor]

its all ogre now

[vital pollen]

new diffu

100%movespeed and unslowable

[torn girder]

is 900 radius big

idek

[vital pollen]

http://puu.sh/JEQ2s/1e79654726.jpg

[torn girder]

wait this is actually kinda a sick talent rework

please tell me all of them are like this

FROG WHAT ARE YOU DOING MAN

WHAT IS THAT

[dire anchor]

you can't run from alchie anymore

[torn girder]

status resistance reduction is

fucking

psychopathic

[vital pollen]

yeah thats errr

not gonna stay

6% status resist per stack, with 11 max stacks?

tbf

i havent checked yet

how much they nerfed all disables

but still

[torn girder]

sorta decently

but like

idk if by enough to warrant that

here is axe call f.ex

[vital pollen]

Destroying a Tormentor grants an Aghanim's Shard buff to one of the two lowest networth allied heroes that still do not have the Shard when it dies

[torn girder]

[vital pollen]

lule

but yeah bkb change is kinda nasty

like

bkb runs out and youre just

insta hexed/stunned

[torn girder]

[vital pollen]

cause it was applied before it ran out

1sec bkb left, 3sec hex cast, bkb ends, 2sec hex insta

[dire anchor]

wait

does this mean