Dota

[vital pollen]

yeah

and even if he doesnt

[tight sluice]

feels good man

[vital pollen]

its not like he really needs to know whats gong on in offlane either

[errant tusk]

ye i get it

some people find it disturbing i think

[vital pollen]

you get used to it fast imo

and zayacs english isnt that good yet

its like

playing with oono and extasia and they talk in french ye

makes sense to me

[errant tusk]

ye io hope they dont make any changes for now

and see how this team goes

[vital pollen]

same

[errant tusk]

unless puppey retires

then jsut f

pack it up

[vital pollen]

hope they dont crumble to the "public" pressure

and drop crystallis

cause i think theyll have a hard time finding a carry

who can fit that space

[errant tusk]

i dont think they can find a player that will replace crystallis and fulfill his role

unless matu magically says

yo puppey i wanna play again

then yea just do it

but idk who fills that role

[vital pollen]

crystallis just needs to practice more, was pretty obvious imo that he doesnt have a lot of pro experience yet

[errant tusk]

fear? that guy is retired as fuck

[vital pollen]

matu

🙂

but hes retiring

[errant tusk]

most of the carries now are i must be top gpm/giga flashy heroes/farming patterns optimized

[vital pollen]

youd have to get a carry from high mmr/t2 teams and like

[errant tusk]

maybe yuragi

[vital pollen]

thats exactly what crystallis is

so

[errant tusk]

since he plays with ammar

so he isnt real 1 anyway

[vital pollen]

ye

but imo

he doesnt fit the secret style

[errant tusk]

i hope og doesnt make changes either, 1 year ago i didnt even believe they would retain their div 1 slot

and they won major

sure no china teams in this one if i remember correctly

but still 3 or 4 rookies on big lan

[vital pollen]

i hope OG gets rid of ammar and he doesnt find another team

[errant tusk]

im afraid he's too good to not find a team

its pure case

no matter how toxic he is, how stupid shit he writes

people will want to play with you

because you're just too good

[vital pollen]

i think hes too big of a brand risk

for any other org

the only org he fits in

is OG

cause notail doesnt really give a shit

cause hes a toxic fuck as well

[errant tusk]

nomail

you can be toxic tbh

you just need to do it in between lines now

like simple does it

or notail

[vital pollen]

ye

but ammar isnt smart enough for that

imo

[errant tusk]

so avg person doesnt understand

[vital pollen]

hes just super talented

[errant tusk]

ye he's real good

[vital pollen]

after i saw that mars clip

of him killing invoker in ghostwalk

dunno if youve seen

[errant tusk]

and he is big reason why lots of offlaners play like they play

te

ye

i saw that

like wtf

[vital pollen]

that was so insane

[errant tusk]

ammar basically invented

pos1 from offlane

and razor meta

[vital pollen]

ye

well

id say

[errant tusk]

he invented this shit

[vital pollen]

universe did

[errant tusk]

or if he didnt invent he mastered it

[vital pollen]

universe offlane void

[errant tusk]

god void was so op back then

i think it was 60s chrono with aghs

you dfie in chrono

you respawn in 80s

you get chronod again

and you die

[vital pollen]

[errant tusk]

and there was no item like aeon disk back then

no windwaker

[vital pollen]

well

you played shit like

shadowdemon

solar crest gave evasion etc.

[errant tusk]

why did secret ban doom in every game they played vs tundra?

is 33 or nine some god doom

[vital pollen]

scared of neta doom

[errant tusk]

id guess 33

but ive never ever seen

him on doom

[vital pollen]

neta hardcarried a few games as doom

[errant tusk]

coz it was literally 100% banned

[vital pollen]

he basically won a game by himself

in upper

[errant tusk]

i see

[vital pollen]

and aghs doom is just

broken

[errant tusk]

ye doom aghs is no fun playing into

[vital pollen]

esp for the way secret likes to play

[errant tusk]

but i mean idk you 'JUST' pick stuff like shadow demon

or ww

and you just stop him

or am i seeing wrong

if you demonic purge him what is he gonna do

[vital pollen]

you still cant kill him

[errant tusk]

or ww ult

[vital pollen]

and it lasts too long

[errant tusk]

yea but you jsut run from him

[vital pollen]

okay

so

what then?

you gonna kite

for 30seconds?

[errant tusk]

then he has no ult

and you kill them

[vital pollen]

then he has refersher

[errant tusk]

thats what i saw in pubs

[vital pollen]

[errant tusk]

on high bracket

when i watched high bracket pubs

[vital pollen]

psujre you can just draft in a way

that if you run from doom

you lose objectives

[errant tusk]

also that way

he wont have wraith pact garbage vs you

soo you can actually do damage

[vital pollen]

but yeah i mean

if you can kite the doom

thats great

but thats hard imo

with all the lockdown supports that are being played

[errant tusk]

i agree that aghs is giga good tho

[vital pollen]

discopony just gonna run you down

while you run away from doom

[errant tusk]

idk why wouldnt people aghs every game

its so busted

[vital pollen]

yeah

its doom on 2-4people

and cheaper than refresher

[errant tusk]

even on 1 is good enough

[vital pollen]

and you cant linkens

[errant tusk]

ye its for linkens

for pucks

for spirits

[vital pollen]

slark

[errant tusk]

ye

its like axe call

its very hard to get proper call coz its well addressed + decently long cast time

so people can react often

[vital pollen]

cant react to doom

[errant tusk]

but vs that righteous fire type shit well you're fucked

[vital pollen]

cause scorched earth blink

[errant tusk]

just suprised

they didnt even experiment

[vital pollen]

insta disable blink

[errant tusk]

and let them have it once

[vital pollen]

yeah i mean

[errant tusk]

coz they played vs tundra

[vital pollen]

why even try

[errant tusk]

8 games total i wanna say

and it was always banned

[vital pollen]

if you dont think you ahve counterplay

netas pool is too big

imo

so you cant ban something else instead anyway

i think tundra is hard to ban against

cause all their players have multiple good heroes

[errant tusk]

the only time tundra lost to secret was when they fucked up the draft

[vital pollen]

only surefire ban imo is mirana

[errant tusk]

at least i felt like secret had super better draft

[vital pollen]

secret had the better draft in game2 imo

still lost

[errant tusk]

you mean bristle/arc warden game?

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

that game was closest

[vital pollen]

closest, sure, but never looked like secret was in control

playing from behind entire game

[errant tusk]

they had way too many counters for lesh

again

or not even counters

[vital pollen]

yeah just

wraith pact in general

[errant tusk]

just ways to mitigate his damage

[vital pollen]

dunno why secret never played

a hero to kill it

well marci kills it but yeah

wheres the snap

surprised we didnt see one all series

[errant tusk]

hope they at least intorduce some small patch

surely some smaller nerfs

[versed matrix]

maybe I cone some irl friends for dota

idk what to play after im done with lost ark stuff

[torn girder]

Oh

They actually got 3-0’d

Sad

[stiff pebble]

Yeah but at the same time tundra crushed the entire upper bracket the entire tournament so...

You always hope for five games but when someone dominates the dominate

[tight sluice]

I swear to god

this arcana shit

has ruined the game

too many returning players just griefing

[stiff pebble]

[vital pollen]

http://puu.sh/Jqjph/baee5505de.jpg

how do people grief

at that rating

like

how is it noticeable

[tight sluice]

UM?

what

I cant notice people using force staff on me?

people inting

and funny

that qop game

IM LIKE 99% sure that was with the wd that was running it down

IT

game quality has just gone down that sall

alot of low bp level people playing only for arcaans and just griefing

[torn girder]

did they rework something with xp or some shit

feel like im having a lot of really high xpm games

pa arcana acquired ez

1044 xpm i rarely even had that much in the shit stomp void spirit games i played b4

surely they reworked xp or some shit

[versed matrix]

wo tf was mid, primal?

[torn girder]

nah

silencer

noob player

[tight sluice]

witchblade qop enjoyer

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[torn girder]

got brought down to 100 hp at rune fight and couldnt lane after that

ye witchblade is a lot of dmg lol

i am sad game ended so fast i kinda wanted to play with the aghs

wait

surely this aghs is like the ultimate farming tool

nvm

its enemy hero

sad

[tight sluice]

broken item

XD

[torn girder]

eh

[tight sluice]

I dont usually go orchid on her anymore just wb shard with kaya sange if needed

[torn girder]

early game item

[tight sluice]

well thats not true

deends on the game

[torn girder]

item does nothing when enemy cores have bkb and supps dont die in 5 autos

just a slow at that point

[tight sluice]

yeah but I mean

that's qop

the game isn't supposed to go that long with her

[torn girder]

qop can go late

[tight sluice]

ok

cavern crawl done for carry

@torn girderdo you find qop feels weak rn

[torn girder]

shes ight

just an average hero

not broken not shit

[torn girder]

problem with qop will always just be that shes kind of a worse puck

shes like a scuffed hybrid of lina and puck

idk why her ult has a 125 sec cd at all points of the game unless you grab a lvl 20 talent

[stiff pebble]

Queen is also had that reduction moved around a bunch, there's a chance that they just don't know what to do with her

[tight sluice]

yeah

this is what I thought as well

[vital pollen]

i pick magnus4, random dude picks kunkka mid, i think "nice dude, this is gonna be easy as fuck", he goes phaseboots into aghanims

enemy mid has twice the networth of my mid

minute 10

[tight sluice]

[tight sluice]

when do predictions get recorded so I can see how much I got right

[torn girder]

Ti 11 true sight gonna suck big balls

[tacit epoch]

The interesting part of this TI was the liquid arc

[distant yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/sailor-navy-sea-ocean-gif-15250458

[tender fox]

at least lcq was so op they had to nerf it by removing it

[buoyant sage]

quick game during lunch break?
the quick game:

[buoyant sage]

https://tenor.com/view/fresh-prince-room-empty-alone-will-s-mith-gif-11321840

[tight sluice]

Yeah see with league I could get in like 3 or 4 games in the morning if I woke up at 7

Dota it's like MAYBE 1 game

Depending on length

[tacit epoch]

Pushing high ground can really slow the game down

[tight sluice]

Hg is the worst

One of the things I like about league way more you cant just turtle all game

[tacit epoch]

Idk I kinda like the aspect of highround defense

[tight sluice]

It makes games a slog.

[tacit epoch]

It's more of an issue that players don't know how to finish games

[tight sluice]

Cause it just requires you to farm the map for 10 mins till rosh then push which is a boring af gamestate

[tacit epoch]

You can push more frequently but for some reason ppl just don't do it

[tight sluice]

League it's ok your ass wants to turtle? We get drakea and baron and run you over

Forces the losing team to actually have to play

[tacit epoch]

Ppl just vote to surrender because of a bad lane in league

[errant tusk]

that happens in dota too

if you dont leave base = cant get higher tier neutral items and no rosh

and you get to farm all map for 10-20 minutes so you build 5 hexes or 5 bkbs or w/e items you feel are needed to end the game i think its only arc warden that is massively unfair whenever trying to push hg

hero is stupid

[tight sluice]

And they would in dota too if it existed

[tacit epoch]

Yes hence I'm glad surrender doesn't exist

[errant tusk]

you can tap out 30 minutes in if you type gg but only in 5 man stacks

people sell items/grief instead of surrendering i guess idk how bad that aspect is in league

[tight sluice]

It's not really the same because you can still stall the game out with the right comp and people will still struggle up HG with those advantages.

Objectives in league force the game to have an end which I like better in some regards

[errant tusk]

the classic shadow amulet

[tight sluice]

What I'm saying is that state where you cant push HG is a really boring slog

[tacit epoch]

I think that comes more from ppl not knowing how to push hg

[errant tusk]

ye

that is a lot of that

[tight sluice]

I do like that dota games can go longer it's just those instances where the only thing stopping HG push is not enough net worth lead and rosh ect.

[tacit epoch]

Like how many games you had where

You take down mid barracks and throne is open

But ppl go for other racks

And game drags out

Unnecessarily

[tight sluice]

I won a game yesterday tho with QoP where my WD was inting and we still won cause they kept trying to slam their face into HG

[errant tusk]

i feel like solo queue games are easiest to win if you play stuff like beastmaster

or lycan

and you buy that helmet for creep

and press enemy towers

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

i started playing a little bit of solo q recently and feel like beastmaster always wins the game

he just gets towers

[tacit epoch]

I mean I win a decent amount because I just push empty lanes

[errant tusk]

and people dont respond fast enough

[tacit epoch]

With any hero

And I'm not good at early game lane dominance

But mid to late game ppl take unnecessary team fights

And you can just split push in the meantime and create more value

[tight sluice]

Dota players also fully ignore pings

[errant tusk]

i think what you're describing @tight sluice is mostly bad mmr because there is a reason why hero like spectre that is ultimate win the game has high winrate in rly shit brackets coz if you dont end the game in 75 mintues well guess what

[tacit epoch]

I mean you will get furiously pinged at if you're split pushing and your team got wiped

[errant tusk]

hero that can tp to anyone and solo him

will win

unless its arc warden hero is just stupid

idk why that bubble protects buildings

[tacit epoch]

I don't like arc warden at all

[errant tusk]

but there is games where you need to starve opponent

thats just how dota is played i feel like

[tacit epoch]

The ghost range in the early game is a pain to deal with

[errant tusk]

look at some of the tundra games where they just starve opponents for 10-15 minutes

get 30k gold lead

a click

win

thats more of rts game concept but applies in dota case

if you play hero like naga that is what hero does

[tight sluice]

That is so boring to me

[errant tusk]

hero needs to have gold advantage to be better + you starve opponents coz you take away their map

[tight sluice]

And why this TI finals was awful

[tacit epoch]

This patch feels like I'm learning a lot of illusion and unit management

[errant tusk]

that will be lots of your games in dota tbh

coz there is many heroes like that

and thats one playstyle

naga/tb carries being one of them

luna can do taht to certain extent too

[tacit epoch]

Yeah I love tb

So illusions + manta

Need to sort out the illusion groups keybinds better

[errant tusk]

the most standard position where a team is winning is 1 team occupies enemy triangle + farms 2 lanes versus other team that is behind farms 1 lane

and you just get more farm from the map

[tight sluice]

My keybinds are weird for illu/zoo heroes

[errant tusk]

and that behind team most liklely gonna dodge a fight

[tacit epoch]

But it is a zoo meta so it's better to get those keybinds sorted

If only shift modifiers worked in dota

[errant tusk]

if you wanna finish games fast probably learn to play bms/chens

that kinda heroes

early dominance

get all their towers secure 2 roshes

win game most likely by then

[tight sluice]

I dont play offlane so why do I care?

[errant tusk]

coz zoo heroes arent only from offlane

[tight sluice]

My ctrl groups are on f keys

I dont play zoo heroes in general

[tacit epoch]

Pos 1 has illusion management

Jugg, naga, tb

[tight sluice]

Jugg?

[tacit epoch]

Manta

Specter manta

[errant tusk]

every agi carry builds manta nowadays, rarely you go sny but thats vs like earthshaker/lc/axe

[tight sluice]

I mean I dont Manta if I don't need it

[tacit epoch]

Feels like manta is almost always the play

[tight sluice]

But I mostly play mid anyway so

[tacit epoch]

I'm kinda practicing all positions

[tight sluice]

Nothing I play requires heavy illu management or controlling other units

Even offlane I strictly play razor slar dawn mars

Pos 4 I am a Marci 1 trick

[tacit epoch]

Pos 4 bounty let's go

[tight sluice]

I find I never get pos4

On my all roles games

I get offlane more tbhb

[errant tusk]

play whatever heroes you find fun 👍

as long as its not some game ruining shit

like ye spectre pos 5 sounds like great idea

[buoyant sage]

be me

pick Clockwerk
enjoys the game

[versed matrix]

do it with flare

[buoyant sage]

[torn girder]

Earth Spirit is most based pos 4

[tacit epoch]

Clock shard is really fun

Jetpack go brrrr

[errant tusk]

why earth spirit when marci exists

[torn girder]

Ye true

Both do stun

Except 1 buys bkb and solos your core

[tight sluice]

Es too hard

[torn girder]

And 1 just fucks around in the fight

[tight sluice]

Marci press R dead cores

Sidekick go brr

[torn girder]

Icefrog need to execute marci this next patch

[tacit epoch]

Or play primal

[errant tusk]

es buys bkb too but yea solos cores

[torn girder]

Marci and beast both to the block

[tacit epoch]

Run in from half the map

Smash enemy to the ground

[errant tusk]

[distant yoke]

@tight sluice rapid fire the auto-mod

[torn girder]

Ye but when es buys bkb he like stuns an extra guy or gets another silence off

Marci press e and ult

Aaaaaand your mid laner is dedge

[errant tusk]

yea ofc

[tight sluice]

?

What

[errant tusk]

sidekick gonna get nerf surelyy

[torn girder]

SURELY

Surely coldtoad knows its op

I still remember when i saw a monkey get sidekicked then use 1st spell on wave and full heal

I was flabbergasted

Pure disgust

[distant yoke]

Whats the chance that Muerta is a puppet master style hero?

ppl found evidence that she's wearing the "Revenants brooch"

which turns auto attacks to magic, just like puppet master did

[torn girder]

What is puppet master style hero

Oh

[distant yoke]

carry with magic auto attacks

[torn girder]

That kinda sounds like shit no?

[distant yoke]

its borked

[torn girder]

Buy bkb and then what

[distant yoke]

regular aas

[torn girder]

Wait you mean they can turn autos to magic when they want

[distant yoke]

at least puppet master had this voodoo doll (his ultimate) which made them take extra dmg from magic

[torn girder]

Ye i mean its kinda interesting concept because it ignores armor right

So you could pick that concept into tb

And deal stupid damage to him

[tight sluice]

Yeah I cant even remember what PM did

I remember him being annoying af

[distant yoke]

his ulti

could 1 shot ppl with the puppet and some crit items

[torn girder]

Splash damage passive

[tight sluice]

Yeah I remember that

[distant yoke]

sick hero concept

[torn girder]

Carries with farm mechanisms built into their kit

Monka

[distant yoke]

ye his splash attack was nuts

he could also make mindcontrol

[torn girder]

Sounds like interesting concept would be cool if she is a magic auto attacker type

[tight sluice]

What's wrong with that?

[torn girder]

Uhhhh

[tight sluice]

Theres already a billion of those in game

[torn girder]

Ig nothing really

I just think those types of heroes

Are really easy to be broken

You can have your lane ruined but then just go jungle min 5 and comeback bcuz you have automatic farm mech

Ig its not as big of a problem since they buffed the jungle creeps a lot in past few patches

Tbh i hope next big patch has actual significant changes, last few big patches have kinda been meh

[tacit epoch]

What do you wanna see changed?

[errant tusk]

so like od now

[torn girder]

Well the generic answer is always just “the map”

[distant yoke]

https://youtu.be/wWGUGHos_Vo

[torn girder]

But i wouldn’t mind something on the level of talents/neutral items addition

Some extra system

[distant yoke]

Ye except more of a stealthy killer

[torn girder]

As long as its not shit

But i think most old school players are usually opposed to additions of new systems like that

[distant yoke]

Not a coward with a perma cc

[errant tusk]

remember when od W did aoe damage

on aghs maybe

or shard

dont rmemeber

was so busted

[torn girder]

Uh

[errant tusk]

[torn girder]

It was standard in the past no?

[errant tusk]

coz that hero only lacks flash farm

[torn girder]

Or wait

That was his orb

Nvm

It used to aoe

[errant tusk]

i hate od man

[distant yoke]

Puppet is more of a ganker

[torn girder]

Ye od is a cancerous hero

[distant yoke]

Doesnt have a huge aoe nuke

[torn girder]

Any meta where he is op is sad meta

Hammer od was fuckin cancer

Although he is very cool hero

Mana based hero

[errant tusk]

unique concept but very 0 1

he feels busted or underwwhelming

[torn girder]

Yah

[distant yoke]

But ye ppl said the revenants brooch is ”muertas item”, so its likely that its a magic attack style hero

[tacit epoch]

I feel that way about tinker

[errant tusk]

i honestly woudl rather play vs tinker

than other considered cancer picks like arc warden or od

[tacit epoch]

Not very enjoyable to face

[torn girder]

Tbh i just hate tinker blind

[tacit epoch]

But arc is also up there in terms of frustration

[errant tusk]

out of all the cancer picks tinker is my favourite to face if that makes sense

[torn girder]

That ability is fucking aids in lane

[distant yoke]

Tinker with march wasnt fun in low pubs

[errant tusk]

ye tinker march gone now tho

this iteration might be worse tbh

he gets free bots and level 7 he does like 600 nuke dmg

[vital pollen]

it is worse

[errant tusk]

and can be at any tower fight

[vital pollen]

you used to have to max march to farm

now you just max laser

and it does it all

[torn girder]

Ye its worse lol

[distant yoke]

Siege hg impossible when everything just rots as it enters the base

[torn girder]

Laser aoeing by default is not okay

[errant tusk]

but tbh tinker is very weak till level 2 ult

but he counters that by JUST having stacks on ancients

and you get so much xp

[tight sluice]

I mean it is but 7.32 was pretty big.

Removing smallcamp and adding flag creeps were big for mid

[torn girder]

Old tinker was just a rat hero shove all lanes perma cancer

[errant tusk]

from the laser/smoke

[torn girder]

Sure but I don’t think that significantly changed how the game was played Hataro

[tight sluice]

No longer can you suck at laning and just hide with smallcamp

My mid winrate shot way up

[vital pollen]

yeah i mean

you just do

omega ancient stack

smoke

[torn girder]

^

[vital pollen]

farm it with laser

[buoyant sage]

I straight thought about Puppet Master HoN when I saw Muerta

I hope it is the case

[errant tusk]

small camp removal is good for the game yea

now they need to remove water runes

[torn girder]

It is

[errant tusk]

and we're ok

[tight sluice]

Pleaee

[torn girder]

But i dont think that actually changes much about the game

[tight sluice]

Please PLEASE remove water runes

[errant tusk]

but actually there used to be period worse than we have now

[distant yoke]

There had been datamined puppet master strings

[errant tusk]

there used to be period where from either minute 4 or 6

there were always runes no matter which side of river you go

[distant yoke]

That ppl thought was a hint about hon heroes

[errant tusk]

coz there would be 1 power rune and at other spot there would be bounty rune

so meta was

spam spells

[torn girder]

Ew

[errant tusk]

go to 1 spot

pick up guaranteed rune

repeat

[distant yoke]

But maybe it was just a codename for muerta

[errant tusk]

that was even worse than now id say

[buoyant sage]

wasnt it ffor dota underlords or smthg back in the days

or its recent

[distant yoke]

Oh it might have been

Underlords

[buoyant sage]

Im not sure

[distant yoke]

Oh well, she has guns at least

[torn girder]

Gonna play her mid and grief

[tight sluice]

@errant tusk why are water runes a thing

[torn girder]

How should he know

[tight sluice]

What was the reason

[torn girder]

They just put them in the game

[tight sluice]

Oh lmao

[torn girder]

You dont question icefrog he just does things

[tight sluice]

No explanation?

[torn girder]

No one knows why he does things

No

[tight sluice]

[torn girder]

Dota patch notes dont contain explanations for things

[tight sluice]

I'm so used to riot giving a detailed reason why things are done.

[torn girder]

The reasoning is probably that mid lane is very polarizing

[tight sluice]

Even if I disagree it's good to see their perspective

[torn girder]

You either shit stomp or get shit stomped

Water runes are a way to mitigate that

[tight sluice]

Yeah

[torn girder]

So that you dont just have a guy 5 lvls above everyone minute 10 deleting everyone with 2 spells

[tight sluice]

Well this is what it does. Although, if I am really stomping I'll usually just get both

[torn girder]

Uhh

[distant yoke]

i think he wanted mid to be more aggressive

[torn girder]

Thats cause the other guy is bad bro

[tight sluice]

Because low players wont drag the way to the rune

Ye

[torn girder]

Theres no reason you should ever be allowed to get both

The other guy is just trash

[tight sluice]

The one thing that drives me nuts about power runes is when people coin flip them

[torn girder]

Or supps came to help

[tight sluice]

And land on a regen or DD or some dumb shit

[torn girder]

Thats just power runes lol

Is what it is

[tight sluice]

Ye

[torn girder]

I wish PA was a viable mid laner

[tight sluice]

The whole point of mid to me is a 1v1 skill matchup. If you're worse at laning you should get run over

[torn girder]

Love pa

Well you still do if you are really bad

[tight sluice]

PA is just ass in general they nerfed her too hard

[torn girder]

But like

Before

If you were ember into huskar

You might as well leave game

[tight sluice]

I've played that matchup

I still feel like leaving the game

Or tinker

Jesus christ

[torn girder]

Ye before water runes it was even worse

[tacit epoch]

PA strong in low ranks because ppl don't know halberd exists

[torn girder]

Idk it was probably mainly just

Mitigate shit matchups

So the last pick counter isnt as strong

And just mitigate turbo bad games

[tight sluice]

Ye but like part of that is the pick bans in ranked need to be reworked

[torn girder]

Where mid laner just fucks entire map for 15 mins

[tight sluice]

You can randomly counter pick yourself

Because both mids last pick

[torn girder]

Thats just dota lol

If you dont wanna get hard fucked by counter play some lina or lesh

[tight sluice]

Nah they need to set it up more like leagues pick ban for ranked.

Just first pick then 2 picks for other then 2 picks for u ect.

[torn girder]

I mean thats how tournament is setup but no all pick pubs

[tight sluice]

And when I click abhero to be banned it shouldn't be random that it isnt banned

[torn girder]

Dota games already long enough ppl dont wanna sit in 20 min pick ban

Also tbh if they setup things like in league

You would probably just get countered more often

[tight sluice]

Yeah but youd have as many games as last pick so it works out

[errant tusk]

how else do you wanna do it

[tight sluice]

The bans annoy me more than anything

[torn girder]

Ye but you know when you ban something in dota it is much more telling of what you wanna do

If it was like league

[errant tusk]

there will always be someone with 1st or last pick

[torn girder]

If you ban some hard mid counter they will just read that

[errant tusk]

at least now you have coin toss and its 'fair' a little bit at least

[torn girder]

And pick some lesser counter

[tight sluice]

Yeah but I dont ban for myself I ban pudge

[errant tusk]

before that we had system where one team would have 1st pick and then other team had last pick

so last pick could just counter your mid hero

at least now he has 'fog of war' element where he has no clue

but tbh if you pick shit like bat last pick

[torn girder]

Idm how the picks and bans work rn

[errant tusk]

then well you win 95% of lanes

[torn girder]

Hataro dont know about bat mid yet

No one plays that in his mmr

[errant tusk]

bat is just bat

wins all lanes/almost all lanes

[tight sluice]

I play bat but hes bad in low mmr games

[torn girder]

How so

[tacit epoch]

Idk I feel like I play bat and win lanes by just spamming spells

Lasso super good in low mmr

[torn girder]

Ye im ngl the take of “X is bad in low mmr” is like

Kinda braindead

[tight sluice]

I mean I think TA is also bad for low mmr so

[torn girder]

Even if you are gonna use the argument of “my team dont follow me” just go farm bro

What

Nah bro

You are high on some hataromium

[tight sluice]

Sec

[errant tusk]

TA is good to stomp on every mmr

[torn girder]

The argument of “my team blah blah blah” is useless

[errant tusk]

ive had some 10k smurf win 1v5 on my 5,5k shit bracket

or w/e smurf

fuck knows wshat was his real rank

but actually 1v5

[torn girder]

One of the best skills to learn in pubs is recognizing your team is bad and doesnt know how to play the map, so you just go farm lol

[tight sluice]

No TA is too slow of a hero for low mmr games is what I was going to say

She doesnt roam or influence the game that much early

[torn girder]

HUH

[errant tusk]

ye because you just farm

stack ancients

and come out with big farm

and one shot people

[tight sluice]

Unlike puck where I can just terrorize lanes

Same with QoP

[tacit epoch]

But low MMR games are slower than high MMR

[torn girder]

^

I think

You are just shit at farming

So killing supports for gold seems op

When in reality a smurf on TA will delete your mmr in your bracket like 80/100 games by just farming

80/100 is probably on the conservative side too

[tacit epoch]

Gotta learn how to properly utilitise pango ult

Looks insane if used well

[torn girder]

It is

[tacit epoch]

Does mind breaker work with the pango q?

[torn girder]

That ult is the reason that hero will likely never be pure dog shit unless the ult itself gets nerf bombed

[tacit epoch]

Just aoe silence

[torn girder]

Nah mindbreaker only silences on first hit

Otherwise ember sleight would also aoe silence lmao

[errant tusk]

it works but yea not as op as you'd think

[tacit epoch]

I see, i know the tier 1 neutral dagger works with q

[errant tusk]

thats why basher isnt that great when you have summon heroes to coutner it

because it can bash only one target kinda

[tacit epoch]

The one that procs if you hit from behind

[errant tusk]

coz it has cc

cd*

[torn girder]

The reason mindbreaker is good on pango is that the magic damage per hit applies on every single hit of q

Decent damage amp

[errant tusk]

mindbreaker is annoying to play vs wr

coz she just presses ult

and its sad

[torn girder]

True

[errant tusk]

coz you already need to bkb/manta

or maybe even dead

[tight sluice]

They are but like. If you dont involve yourself in the game the game just ends

Because people will tilt off the face of the planet when their mid is active and you are not

[torn girder]

Just mute

And hit ancients

Rtz style

[tight sluice]

I mean it's really the same as league the best way to climb is just. Shove, roam, shove, roam ect.

[errant tusk]

ngl in solo q if yhou dont think fight is worth taking but your team pressures you to take it

dont

let them die

or make that mistake yourself

[torn girder]

^

[tight sluice]

That's why I have a long winsteak on dawn mid

[errant tusk]

play for your timings/yourself often in solo q

is the best approach

[torn girder]

What i said earlier basically

Learn to recognize when your teammates are clueless

[tacit epoch]

notify team you need 100 gold for bkb
Team initiates fight anyway

[tight sluice]

@torn girder although I won a game yesterday as TA I ended godlike and had 800gpm

My 5 support was raging at me for farming on TA cause I wasnt pos 1

[torn girder]

Ye fuck them

Clueless

They are 1k for a reason

[errant tusk]

well ta mid is very greedy

and dont expect rotations

that hero occupies triangle

[torn girder]

Ye lol

[errant tusk]

just people thinking MID = MUST ROAM

[torn girder]

Expecting early rotations from a Ta is like expecting a medusa mid to roam back in day

Its like

Wtf you want me to do lmao

[errant tusk]

when taking a mid tower is much more important than getting kills on the side lanes

[tight sluice]

I've noticed that people just think safelane means pos1 and mid means pos2

Isnt it just farm prio? Like who needs the most farm

[torn girder]

Ye

[tight sluice]

Like if u have a really greedy mid and like an ursa or even jugg if he goes the right build isnt mid pos1 in that sense

[torn girder]

It is dynamic, thats the thing a lot of ppl dont understand

It changes within the game itself

[tacit epoch]

Yeah I've noticed that I often get outplayed mid lane but then the enemy mid starts roaming and I just take mid tower for free and catch-up

[errant tusk]

you'd usually pick more utility safelaner with TA mid yea

like you arent picking morphling/ta as your 1/2

most likely

way too hard to make it work already

[tight sluice]

Its weird cause like TA was always a mid when I played it's only now I see them picking her safelane in pro

[errant tusk]

not quite sure why

[tight sluice]

I dunno how recent this is that they changed

[torn girder]

Uhh

Semi recent

[errant tusk]

ta isnt very popular pick nowadays

but yea last tiem she was popular was pos 1

safelane

[torn girder]

TA pos 1 came up in last patch iirc

Maybe before that

But

Shes just a good laner

Like you need some real bad lane for her to get super omega fucked

Meld is just a really good spell lol

Its why you skill it in safe lane early but not in mid

Pos 3 walks up to you and you just meld auto him now you and your support are doing like pure dmg with autos

Maybe even amped by neg armor

[tight sluice]

Btw isnt PA mid pickable into like sniper/Zeus@torn girder

[torn girder]

I wouldnt pick pa mid ever unless your pos 1 is some like slardar shit

Picking battle fury heroes mid is like actual game suicide

[tight sluice]

[torn girder]

Maybe if you have some magnus juice

But ye sad

I really like playing pa and drow wish they were more viable in mid

I am too shit at pos 1 to play it all the time

[tight sluice]

I'm bad at pos1 too

Honestly I always feel like I'm never farmed enough and when I join fights I just end up getting melted

[errant tusk]

as pos 1 you join fights early on to get exit kills kinda

like when i play mk and im in fight early on im not tanking with face

im just waiting or starting with stun from tree

im not there to go tank and die

[tight sluice]

Even when I get items I still feel like if I go in I just get blown up even by the other carry no matter how fed I am.

Also i always feel behind in levels.

[torn girder]

Ye same

Just bad farming patterns

[errant tusk]

the best game scenario is

you win your lane or go even/have between level 5-8 from laning stage which could go as far as 12-15 mintues

and tp to your offlane where tower is already dead

and just play there for next 10-15 mins while rotating around killing 2 camps from enemy jungle + your triangle + waves

and just rotate that

[tight sluice]

What if offlane tower isnt dead and you cant go there

[errant tusk]

thats the 'free game' package

[torn girder]

Yep

You can tp and assist in killing the tower

[errant tusk]

fact that offlane tower isnt dead isnt that bad

then you farm triangle + lane once it pushes to your tower

[tight sluice]

Like even if their offlane tower isnt dead and their carry is still there?

[errant tusk]

and hope your team does sth on map so you see multiple heroes on other lanes and push it yourself

then the enemy carry is trolling his game

and he should be farmed

[torn girder]

Ye enemy carry is meant to mirror this basically

[tight sluice]

They dont though

[errant tusk]

thats the most standard way game should go

[tight sluice]

[torn girder]

Or else he is getting less farm

[errant tusk]

unless its ursa/huskar

and he wants to play close to rosh

thats exception

[torn girder]

Ancients are broken

[tight sluice]

So if I playing like

Puck and QoP

I should be farming deadlane?

[errant tusk]

either you or offlaner

actually no

usually you send someone there that wont die easily + has lane shove

can be pos 4/5 too really

ww is famously good to send there

[torn girder]

Whoever needs farm at that point

[errant tusk]

coz she just spams from trees and is hard to catch

[torn girder]

Decent place for pos 4 to get blink and shit

[tight sluice]

Ok so what ends up happening if you're forced to go deadlane as carry

[errant tusk]

you shouldnt ever

that will happen only if you have stuff like TA from mid

and she takes triangle

so kinda rare cases where that will happen

imo

or other rare case

enemies have timber that occupies that place

and you're the only hero that can answer it

or brood type hero

where you need specific toolkit to just not die in 1v1 vs them

if your tower is dead as carry its basically leave time

if you stay on lane as carry when your tower is down you beg to die

ofc if you lost tower minute 3 because something rly bad hgappened you cant do shit

you just leech xp and hope to get to level you can comfortably jungle at least

heroes that usually stay long on their safelane are insanely strong laners like naix/ck

idk what else

naga possibly? im not naga expert myself

faceless void

but void is risky to pick in pubs i think coz if your lane gets ruined its hard to come back

[tight sluice]

Anything that's really safe basically

Ye I had a game this morning as void it was rough cause my enigma 5 was a bot so I had to go midas.

Ended up coming back but made alot of fuck ups.

Just felt behind the whole time even when I was fed

[versed matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xRN4jdBzmg&ab_channel=Grubby watching this atm

maybe something good for you

[errant tusk]

i mean naix is good on lane but if you lane into necro + some annoying 4 then wcyd

basically ruined game

no matter what

[tender fox]

You don't understand, Wagamama literally changed my life. The $2000 I spent attending his bootcamp was an investment in a vision of myself as a better player. I'll never forget his parting words to me: "your five minutes is up, please send the next guy in."

[errant tusk]

thats why i love playing tb

can jungle level 3

dont give a fuck

even if you have biggest animal 5

but sadly tb isnt that good now i think

totally i dont like playing tb coz i have cool looking arcana

[torn girder]

Tb also just a badass chad hero

Always get chills when some god tier pos 1 player picks it

[versed matrix]

I have the urge

ahhh

[torn girder]

I remember watching spirit in some tourny when they were still yellow submarine

[errant tusk]

absolute unit

[torn girder]

Watching yatoro just

Destroy the fucking game as tb

Pure solo

I was conflicted when choosing arcana

Was either pa or tb

But seeing as i have 0 games on tb

Chose PA

[errant tusk]

im shit on tb

but i like the hero

and i feel like im still better on tb than pa

i had like 10 losing streak on pa

cant crit

[versed matrix]

go rapira

ez win

[tight sluice]

Buff PA icefrog

Why buff then immediately got her a week later

@errant tusk so question.

Isnt the smallcamp supposed to be stacked before you pull first. Otherwise the creeps will just kill the jg camp and then you'll end up with a double wave?

I swear to god I'm the only person I've ever seen stack the smallcamp before pulling as 5.

Is that like. Old or something?

[errant tusk]

you can do half pull

pull 1 2 or 3 creeps and not full wave

ye stacking is the play usually

pulling part is very hard tho even 'higher ranked' players struggle

coz if you leave your idiot carry for 15s alone

he will die

or he will complain WHY ARENT YOU THERE

its a team effort in the end even tho it might not look like one

[torn girder]

Tb seems daunting to me

Illusionist with high cooldown super important spell

Too hard

[versed matrix]

useless if you dont have meta

too hard

[tight sluice]

Isnt it good tho for the Carry to be left alone? Like you want solo xp

Same with offlane u dont aant to just soak their xp forever

When its appropriate I mean. Not just left alone to fend for themselves 2v1

[errant tusk]

nah because when you go pull the lane i assume your carry has creeps almost under enemy tower

= rly bad coz he can get hgarassed a lot + chased quite a distance

but he should play safe

and just soak xp and not rly go for lasthits

unless he can 1v2 very comfortably

but he usually cant

[tender fox]

just do a gentlemans agreement and no harass

[tight sluice]

[tight sluice]

the guy she tells you not to worry about

[stiff pebble]

[tacit epoch]

I want that skin

[torn girder]

just had to endure an hour long PA comeback game

with teammates who couldnt buy sentry wards for fights

against

potm riki

actually got stygian deso

fucking vaporized the riki w/o bb

[torn girder]

Having semi normal behavior score actually a cheat code

Think i only had 1 shit game so far since resuming playing

And it was some dog who picked meepo mid and did nothing for 30 mins

[stiff pebble]

[tight sluice]

bro it actually is

like I find anything under green behavior score is turbo only time

[buoyant sage]

10k behavior score for months here

[stiff pebble]

Weird

[buoyant sage]

just better

I just

His braing his so big
Huh, my keyboard is not working people, the only form of toxicity possible

[tight sluice]

this is a good start

oh also added bonus

[tight sluice]

this is why you should be allowed to dodge in dota

[vital pollen]

You can. After the game is over

[tight sluice]

lmao I mean in draft

[alpine wren]

57 minutes of making space

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/963326335239979028/1036941719322771506/unknown.png

for the game to end with this chrono

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/963326335239979028/1036944314716131389/unknown.png

[vital pollen]

Lol

[tight sluice]

sigh

I miss league

[stiff pebble]

[tight sluice]

I can't wait till these fucks quit dota gain

this arcana shit was the worst thing to happen to mm

[buoyant sage]

4 of my 10 latest played games

so long it looks like a Civ VI game

[alpine wren]

im pretty sure i had something like 9 1-hour length games in my last 10 a week or two ago

[tight sluice]

So we getting an announcement about what's coming Thursday or do we have to just wait

[errant tusk]

expect the unexpected

[tight sluice]

[stiff pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/gabe-newell-time-crowbar-half-life-gif-15650818

[torn girder]

Bro i had a lot of 1 hour games too lmao

So fun

[buoyant sage]

[distant yoke]

nah

[torn girder]

tf

1 hour games are the shit

[tight sluice]

1 hour games are fine

Multiple in a row is just draining af

[tight sluice]

dude

iliterally cant

with this game rn

fucking

lc who litterally wont press ult

icant

[tacit epoch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/yjgrz0/rework_this_dogshit_fucking_ultimate/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Just troll ult things

[tight sluice]

valve has made this game fully unplayable

[stiff pebble]

uhhuh

[tight sluice]

considering I've had 4 people who are level 1 BP come into my games and intentionally troll

yeah it's been pretty fucking miserable