Dota

[tender fox]

otherwise teamfight lost

[vital pollen]

lesh out of mana

suddenly the hero isnt broken

[errant tusk]

well thats over

tundra too good

[torn girder]

Ye

[tender fox]

snowball game winning

[errant tusk]

and now show me other carry that runs in blind 1st into rosh pit

[torn girder]

Pudge rot and lesh pulsing on like everyone

Still lose

[vital pollen]

well

does no damage

with wraith pact+pipe

[torn girder]

Go next sadly

[buoyant sage]

oh boi, brace yourselves boys for low IQ Tusk mid in pubs

[vital pollen]

dunno why he doesnt buy bkb

and went lotus instead

[torn girder]

And now the lesh has been beaten

[rocky moon]

They are feeding

😦

[versed matrix]

not over until its over

[torn girder]

Lesh beat in game 1 of bo5

What to do

[tight sluice]

dw I already play vs that

[vital pollen]

this wasnt a "beat lesh"

but more like

[tight sluice]

[vital pollen]

disjointed map rotations

[versed matrix]

at 1k everything is a mid hero

[vital pollen]

and just single pickoffs over and over

[buoyant sage]

:hoodwinkDespair:

[torn girder]

Also this guy picks naga into your lesh and still owns

Rough one

Bro just goes same build every game lmao

Manta orchid heart

[vital pollen]

nisha died by himself with his team nowhere in sight

like 4times now

[tender fox]

3-0 inc

[torn girder]

Go next sadly

[buoyant sage]

nine carried that game hard

[rocky moon]

gg

[vital pollen]

i like how you said earlier dk

"when they get bkb on cores"

-> no one buys bkbs

[torn girder]

Ye

So they just dont buy the item

[versed matrix]

blyat king bar

[vital pollen]

nah

[torn girder]

Epic

[vital pollen]

hood+mirana

opened that game up

[torn girder]

Idk nine had some op shards lol

[vital pollen]

in combination with nine

but yeah

they basically just did

3man rotations

[buoyant sage]

yeh ofc, if you dont get anything from that support combo you're trash tbh, nine was the clutch one

[vital pollen]

with initiation from a screen away

[tender fox]

ignoring how 33 just trashed bot

[vital pollen]

33 just sat bot

[tender fox]

and tanks all

[vital pollen]

like a bot

(not meant in a negative way)

but that was his job

keep pressure on bot

are they not seeing

the wraith pact?

[buoyant sage]

tide soaked that chain frost

[vital pollen]

theres 4 eidolons

standing right next to it

[tender fox]

tide tanked a 10k bkb pudge taking 0 dmg

[vital pollen]

but yeah legit

nisha just sitting in stuns

for 10seconds

no clue what that lotus is doing

[torn girder]

Idk how you dont buy bkb in this game

[vital pollen]

beyond giving armor

he just gets bushwacked into arrow

[rocky moon]

0 chance lol

[torn girder]

You’re playing vs tide hood mirana

[vital pollen]

like 6times now

[buoyant sage]

dispell anchor smash debuff?

[tender fox]

i dunno prolly dispel net or something

if it sitll pierce bkb

[vital pollen]

no force staffs vs shard traps

[buoyant sage]

ye no force staff is sad

[vital pollen]

tbf they dont have a good hero to play one

[buoyant sage]

yeh but still

[vital pollen]

zayac has one now

[rocky moon]

Naga is bloody massive

[vital pollen]

id rather have a force on that lesh

[rocky moon]

What they have against it

[wide geode]

They never respect the Mirana.

[vital pollen]

than a lotus

[buoyant sage]

you need bkbs and force staves here like we arent pros but we can see that

[errant tusk]

just leave this game

[wide geode]

Always they let Tundra grab Mirana and every time they always get shit on.

[errant tusk]

its pain

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/clockwork-orange-stanley-kubrick-cult-gif-5292170

[vital pollen]

and its sneyking

least skilled player in the world

but like

its not hard

to play mirana in a game like this

so hes still super high impact

and then he itemizes well

[wide geode]

Yeah it’s just insane. Lmao.

[tight sluice]

gigachad tide

[torn girder]

I am gonna sleepge but i expect to wake up to secret loss based on this first game

[vital pollen]

sleep well

secret gonna win dw

this was just

weird draft

puppan gonna go on break

and come back with

new meta

cause thats what puppey does

[tender fox]

he will give same heroes and try to beat it

and 0-2

[vital pollen]

nah

thats xiao8 play

not puppan play

[tender fox]

literally puppe trademark

[torn girder]

I expect to see same first phase bans every game by tundra closing out nyx and marci

And it’ll be just mess

[vital pollen]

tundra will give lesh again

and lose to it

[torn girder]

But hopefully not

[wide geode]

That Puppey Enchantress shit he did

[tender fox]

they should also ban naga since they cant play it

[vital pollen]

secret will play a hero that kills wraith pact, like snapfire

[wide geode]

Actually gross.

[buoyant sage]

kaput enigma

punch'd

[vital pollen]

but yeah nisha itemization was odd

[buoyant sage]

swap lotus for bkb

[vital pollen]

he just

standing there

unable to move

snap instead of lich and its a good game for secret

[tender fox]

if they give away naga again its bad

[vital pollen]

but yeah they kited them really well with that longrange support duo

didnt feel like the naga did much this game

certainly didnt give them the advantage

it was just there to close out the game

[tender fox]

no cus they won it without him

but

they could never come back

[versed matrix]

tusk same deaths as rest of his team combined

really frontlined that

[vital pollen]

naga isnt that insane of a lategame hero anymore

main advantage of naga is that she shoves waves

so you have to play on a smaller map

[tender fox]

they do use their sleep rly well though

both games they won vs secret with it

[vital pollen]

sure, but i dont see this as a "naga won vs lesh" situation

the few fights they actually fought, the naga illusions were what kept the lesh alive

[versed matrix]

but his damage was mitigated so well

he just lasted a bit longer

[vital pollen]

well yeah

but naga had nothing to do with that

was just netas itemization

that was really good

[tender fox]

same items as every game

[vital pollen]

ye

well

you dont see the pact+pipe+mageslayer that often

[tender fox]

u heard nisha

no lesh

"if you lose with a hero in secret you dont pick it again"

[vital pollen]

with these 2 teams

i can actually see enigma just not getting picked or banned

cause neither team really likes to play it

secret ban mirana cause its sneykings only good hero

[rocky moon]

Reso needs something to become pos 1

[vital pollen]

take the lesh with a more aggressive brawler-pos 3

[rocky moon]

dawnbreaker

lone druid or something

[vital pollen]

and get bkbs

and you win

yeah, i liked the idea of the draft, the pudge lastpick seemed great

but it just didnt work out

they lost lane, which was expected

but nisha dies like 3times

zayac too

delayed their items

so they had forcestaff minute 25

no bkb entire game for lesh etc.

and they just ignored the lesh

ravage on 2-3 heroes, then he just gets bushwhacked+arrowed

while his team dies behind him

[rocky moon]

I feel like secret is playing kinda like EG with miracle being plan A and rtz being plan b. except rtz is a dogshit plan B

and then they put Reso in a position of being plan nothing

[tender fox]

miracle on eg confirmed

[rocky moon]

I don't remember who was their mid but you get the idea

[tender fox]

if you mean when they won with sumail it was fear pos1

[rocky moon]

sumail

[vital pollen]

he meant abed

unless he meant the TI winning EG

[rocky moon]

they had mid as playmaker and rtz as backup

[vital pollen]

yeah

thats the secret style

[rocky moon]

and that haven't worked because rtz is shit

[vital pollen]

EG had fear/sumail duo, liquid had matu/miracle, og had ana/topson

[tender fox]

rtz has never rly been backup plan

[rocky moon]

so I believe secret is working well when they put both Nisha and Reso as plan A and let cristalis being plan B

[vital pollen]

agreed

[rocky moon]

I might get used to you agreeing with me Seli

[errant tusk]

and now tundra has 33

at least they banned naga

suprised they dont 1st phase it

if they arent scared to pick it into lesh and still win thats crazy

[rocky moon]

bristle me like

if it's for reso

[buoyant sage]

lesh+birstle brings a lot of illusion cleaning and burst but like

they have nothing to hit the egg + phnx gonna burn BB

[rocky moon]

what is this tundra draft

max greed?

[buoyant sage]

summon war

[rocky moon]

greed from both sides

[buoyant sage]

visage gargoyles, CK ult, double AW

they want to overwhelm secret lmao

[errant tusk]

nisha morph

[rocky moon]

left side can push with chen + bristle fast, right?

[errant tusk]

winnable

[rocky moon]

dunno about right side

visage is a pusher as well if needed?

[tender fox]

visage marci gonna bully them so hard

[burnt basin]

Shpuld@have sent feedalis top

Vs the ck

Bb has an even match up

[rocky moon]

shouldn't it be better to put reso on bb, nisha on lesh and crist on water?

[tender fox]

he dont play morph

or he did once and went mid and got destoyed so no confidence in the hero at least

ok bristle cant be bullied so hard with lvls

[vital pollen]

nisha is probably one of the best morph players in the world, if not the best

but you couldve swapped lesh+bb, but i think they wanted the bb on lane vs visage

cause lesh wouldve just been food vs marci+visage

[tender fox]

hmm tundra cant rly do much until they get a few items

oh jesus that long bird tp

must be pain for tundra supports when ur cores just wanna farm and saksa just run around try to get farm in dangerous places and keep getting picked off

[burnt basin]

there is no chance is hell feedalis can play lesh

teh pick split was correct they needed a right lcicker mid

but i think they needed to put BB on off

and lesh on safe

[buoyant sage]

I mean it's more like Nisha is just absolutely insane on that hero

stop putting crystallis down at every corner

dudes in grand finals and gets disrespected all the time

[tender fox]

holy shit

that damdage

where did secret go

[vital pollen]

he is yeah, its one of those heroes he rose to prominence on

(morph, that is)

[errant tusk]

why dont people flame nisha

[vital pollen]

can they make sidekick a percentage of basedamage instead of flat damage? thanks

[errant tusk]

that he cant carry vs tudnra anymore

[vital pollen]

i mean i did

he threw game1

[errant tusk]

can just farm fucking dogshit people then or what

finally plays into good team

cant 1v5 anymore

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

but its crystalis getting flamed

24/7

[vital pollen]

nisha hailed as best mid to ever grace the planet when he dunks on t2 teams

now hes looking weak

both games

[errant tusk]

must be crystallis fault

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

he cant dunk them anymore

[vital pollen]

dude cant carry

he lost bot so hard that nisha cant 1v5 anymore

/s

[errant tusk]

[tender fox]

why do ck just use ult for scouting

never in fights

[rocky moon]

why did zayac even snowball in

[buoyant sage]

scouting + split pushing

[tender fox]

shard field actually op vs lesh

[buoyant sage]

does 100%

[rocky moon]

4 vs 5 with chen already dead

[vital pollen]

cause technically it doesnt matter

the moment you reality rift, your illusions are back with you

and its such a low cooldown now

[tender fox]

they global now?

[vital pollen]

that you dont wanna sit on it to wait for a fight

[rocky moon]

please no 0-3

[vital pollen]

its like

a screen range or smth

[errant tusk]

its nisha morph

wont stop believing tioll throne is dying

[vital pollen]

or maybe that was just manta illusions

i think phantasm illusions always get teleported?

[burnt basin]

arc only one build btw

[buoyant sage]

it's not global

for all illusion type

manta, rune, phantasm ones

[errant tusk]

there is range to ult illusions with w

100%

its quite big

but not global

[vital pollen]

yeah

but its like

at least 1 screen

[tender fox]

was just wondering cus he kept popping ult in smoke sending them away

[vital pollen]

sidekick is such a dumb skill

[tender fox]

haha the fucking cheese with field

look so disgusting

[vital pollen]

nine is basically

just a magnetic field bot

[errant tusk]

i think crystalis didnt bkb

[vital pollen]

he was stunned

[errant tusk]

wouldve been rly good for secret

[vital pollen]

by birds+chaos bolt

was 3 or 4sec stun

[errant tusk]

that was so close

secret can do it

[rocky moon]

buyback wars

[vital pollen]

for sure

[errant tusk]

nisha carry

[vital pollen]

that was with aegis and shit

[errant tusk]

they just cant give naga to tundra ever

they're too good with the hero

close the map so hard

[vital pollen]

tundra is basically

[errant tusk]

they're methodical team

[vital pollen]

4manning now

[errant tusk]

and naga is a methodical hero

[vital pollen]

nine was just standing in the trees

casting wraiths

and magnetic field

[errant tusk]

ok arc hex

that can end fast

[tender fox]

ye need to catch nisha out

hex is big

[vital pollen]

dunno if crystallis should play AC

think lotus would be better

nine just gonna get free aghs

from rosh

[errant tusk]

that rosh fight is everything

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

also it could be 'just' refresher

so he will buy aghs anyway i imagine

[vital pollen]

nah

gaben

gonna give aghs

[errant tusk]

refresher on ck

wouldnt be bad

2 bkbs

[vital pollen]

ye

second bkb

and phantasm

inb4 its some reason why he cant get shit

[errant tusk]

[tender fox]

bound someone elses courier by mistake

[vital pollen]

the nerves from crystallis there

waiting with bkb

until ck casts chaos bolt on him

and its mid-air already

[tender fox]

big snowball vs hex

[vital pollen]

[tender fox]

nvm

no buyback

if tundra knew

[vital pollen]

familiar stun timing

[tender fox]

what is reso doing there

and then crystallis almost feed alone

secret cant do shit unless bkb is up

[rocky moon]

Secret

[vital pollen]

well played

[rocky moon]

but Reso dream

[errant tusk]

tundra vs secret is 6-1 this tournament so far

2-0'd in grps 2-1 in upper finals and now 2-0 so far

[tight sluice]

puppey time to get out machete

[buoyant sage]

sidekick on visage gargoyles

[tender fox]

looked fun when they did that with bubble so they coudlnt kill em

and base just died

[vital pollen]

marci my finest creation

[buoyant sage]

[vital pollen]

can already see the change

[errant tusk]

well secret makes lesh look balanced

so

[vital pollen]

sidekick giving %dmg instead of flat

[tight sluice]

isn't marci biggest issue her ult

[vital pollen]

tbf i think its mostly the itemization as well

[tight sluice]

like

[vital pollen]

mageslayer good item

against early lesh

and very bursty heroes

[versed matrix]

tundra so good

[tight sluice]

I can go bkb/basher and solokill cores as marci as a 4

[vital pollen]

you dont get to use ult in progames

until you have bkb

[tight sluice]

ic

[vital pollen]

sidekick is her most broken skill

by far

[rocky moon]

reverse kill incoming, right?

[vital pollen]

you vs the guy she tells you not to worry about

[tender fox]

tundra gonna 3-0 with lesh pick even though they never gamed him

[buoyant sage]

[errant tusk]

noone has ever reverse swept

[vital pollen]

less than half the mana, less than half the cooldown, same damage bonus, no casttime, can be cast on allies

[errant tusk]

rip secret

[rocky moon]

She is perfect

[buoyant sage]

I love Marci to death, one of my fave hero in the game not joking but jesus it's way too OP

[vital pollen]

and its also just

both her other skills

are totally fine at lv1

[rocky moon]

but she gives less lifesteal

b - balanced

[vital pollen]

50 or 100% makes no difference anymore

its a satanic at that point

but yeah

rebound range doesnt scale with level

its already 25% movespeed at lv1

just a dumb hero

manacost are super low

[rocky moon]

at the same time quick 3-0 mean I'll go shopping

[buoyant sage]

broken design

[rocky moon]

yeah that would be my question

does she fit dota design space

[vital pollen]

she does, but she needs changes

sidekick needs much higher cd at early levels

so does rebound

and manacost need to go up

on everything

[rocky moon]

dota is not lol with dashes that cost 10 mana and have 8 sec cooldown

[buoyant sage]

yeh she does but need a strong fix

[vital pollen]

i think rebound should be disabled when youve taken damage recently

like blink

so you can use it to initiate

but not to disengage

[rocky moon]

every new hero I see has some giga mobility

[buoyant sage]

ye and you shouldnt be able to rebound on shit like visage pets

[rocky moon]

void spirit, marci, beast

[vital pollen]

its not just that tho lorentz

a lot of other older heroes also got hteir mobility increased

[rocky moon]

yet there are heroes that have nothing

[vital pollen]

naix got movespeed on rage now, slark aghas got changed to giga pounce, sven aghs gives him a charge etc.

used to just be stuff like antimage

that could get around the map quickly

now most of the carries can, the few that dont arent really playable

its why you dont need yasha anymore just for movespeed on a carry

or not as much, at least

[errant tusk]

spirits in general are stupid

untargatable for so long

not fun playing into

and beast charge is way too long + you can steer

looks too stupid

but somehow both teams ignore beast

[vital pollen]

betting we will see nisha play it mid next game

[errant tusk]

beast?

think its not rly secret style

to have him on that hero idk

wouldnt feel right

[tender fox]

ramzes ppy nemesis

why do they give reso marci all of a sudden to ban mk

[vital pollen]

to dab on them

for getting their picks

or missclick

[tender fox]

tundra just want more games on stage

[errant tusk]

coz why not

they are 2-0 up

experiment

do some dumb shit

you can try throwing people off

[tender fox]

ye who needs to secure the extra 6 mill anyway

[errant tusk]

you think about it in such a wrong way

they need JUST 1 game

[tender fox]

[errant tusk]

so they can do rly stupid shit that needs to work only once

[tender fox]

if they dont ban naga now

[errant tusk]

they already took lesh

its over

[tender fox]

took naga themselves

[errant tusk]

ye makes sense

lmao

you cant win vs tundra's naga

its like ti9 og wisp

you dont beat that

[tender fox]

was it their plan or block pick

[errant tusk]

sec let me dm nisha

and ask him

[vital pollen]

both i think

[tender fox]

ty

u both polish so i assume u got a chat room together

[errant tusk]

nisha isnt even in lobby on his main acc

so game is over

[vital pollen]

hes smurfing

[tender fox]

i think they all just play offline

ppy naga support inc

and enigma last pick

[errant tusk]

support naga doesnt work

overnerfed

• multiple interactions dont work like they used to with illusions + gem for example

[tender fox]

so a sup marci

fish women war

gonna take forever for dusa to come online

[buoyant sage]

the team that has marci crushes early game

wonder why

"crush" a bit too much but they are the ones moving

[tender fox]

wow that chase

[errant tusk]

nisha lmao

he started digging

stream rip

[buoyant sage]

ye lmao

[errant tusk]

lmao

i guess time to start game

[buoyant sage]

im watching in game

[tender fox]

ah thought it was my tv stream

[errant tusk]

no

[tender fox]

oh its back

fast forward

[rocky moon]

yeah I noticed too

[errant tusk]

fuck that

watching in game

[rocky moon]

was weird

[errant tusk]

its no delay

• no lags

[versed matrix]

game not installed

[buoyant sage]

NO WAY

NISHA

BBLOCKED HIMSELF

[tender fox]

nisha is stuck

[buoyant sage]

[errant tusk]

nisha with rtz treatment

[tender fox]

self inflicted though

lucky 33 roared illu also

[rocky moon]

medusa seems quite online tbh

[tender fox]

lag again

ka le

[rocky moon]

okay, now this TI also has worst streams that I've seen

[tender fox]

now offline

just g3 grand finals its ok

they rewinded game

[versed matrix]

wtf isnt this a rewind

[rocky moon]

nice lags

[tender fox]

wtf are tehy doing

[versed matrix]

bruh moment

[rocky moon]

still

[vital pollen]

Errr

Did i just travel in time or

[tender fox]

yeah clown fiesta

[versed matrix]

nah, just dogshit stream in potentially the deciding game

[tender fox]

stream died, went up and showed 10 min before

[vital pollen]

Scripted

[rocky moon]

so it's all scripted

[tender fox]

gorc went inside game if u wanna watch live

[rocky moon]

gotcha

[buoyant sage]

reso please boot out this fairy trinket

and take nether shall

[rocky moon]

man it lags so heavily

[tender fox]

gorgc just gained so many viewers

[versed matrix]

naga level 15

[tender fox]

globa land song same time

and nine always gets roll out during song and destroy him

[versed matrix]

crystalis naga was a mistake

[tender fox]

wow

[buoyant sage]

once they lock you down its over

[tender fox]

that lockdown

[buoyant sage]

jessus

[tender fox]

was nice

[versed matrix]

secrekt

game is hard

[rocky moon]

well

they have naga, they can split and maybe rat win?

[tender fox]

[errant tusk]

they'll just click on their throne

and win

[tender fox]

its nice to see that the team with their own meta wins though

[buoyant sage]

fuck man why 3-0

[versed matrix]

skiter lets go

🇸🇰

[buoyant sage]

rexxar hawk

[tender fox]

nine be rolling them hard

[buoyant sage]

horrible during night time and shit

[versed matrix]

good delays by secret

[rocky moon]

why no diffusial against dusa?

is it working somehow wonky with naga?

[errant tusk]

its not that good with ilussions anymore

maybe was fine this game idk

[tender fox]

i dont see them killing dusa

esp if they wait for rosh

[errant tusk]

they surely can but everyone is so farmed

they'd need to kill everyone around and then medusa as last

tundra wont ever give them that

[tender fox]

she does to much dmg to leave alone

esp wiht beast aura

[errant tusk]

ye nvm they couldnt

[buoyant sage]

k its a wrap

[errant tusk]

game felt over for 15 mintues ngl

[versed matrix]

dusa 💪

[rocky moon]

gg 😦

sadge

[vital pollen]

GG

[buoyant sage]

gg

[versed matrix]

gg 3ez

[tender fox]

tundra entourage happier than players

[versed matrix]

secret got destroyed this series

[tight sluice]

Theycant

[buoyant sage]

jesus

Im happy for saksa

sadge 3-0 tho

[rocky moon]

2nd silver medal for Reso

[tacit epoch]

Well deserved win

[rocky moon]

[tender fox]

skiters mom rides in and steal aegis

[rocky moon]

so Aui is the only person to win TI as both player and coach?

[errant tusk]

ye

1st one

shame it was 3-0

[rocky moon]

yeah

not TI4 esque level of games

[errant tusk]

unfortunate matchup

[rocky moon]

but still sadge to see such one sidedness

[errant tusk]

liquid would surely have better matchup

[tender fox]

sadly grand finals was kinda the worst games

[errant tusk]

there were stompy games across the board tbh

secret - thunder awaken was very stompy too

most of the tundra games were stompy

so unlucky for aui

gonna get kicked now

[tight sluice]

Puppey chop INC

[tender fox]

aui kicked for bulba

[tight sluice]

[tender fox]

[tight sluice]

This was a pretty boring ti finals ngl

[errant tusk]

aui wasnt kicked for bulba

[rocky moon]

well, can go enjoy some sun then

thank Tundra

[tender fox]

i know i just took him cus i think he is the worst coach

but he aui won with 2 visage teams

[errant tusk]

https://twitter.com/Aui_2000/status/1586703462154526722

Aui 2000 (@Aui_2000)

Hope I don't get kicked

Twitter · Oct 30, 2022, 12:55 PM

[tight sluice]

Hmm well what's next for dota. We getting map changes?

Where patch Gaben

[errant tusk]

wait 3 months for patch

[tight sluice]

True

Kinda weird they announce a new like spooky ghost hero

On Halloween

And not release it?

Esp with all the returning players

[rocky moon]

see ya next year when Puppey will get far into TI and not win again

[tight sluice]

This is puppeys 4th ti final right?

[errant tusk]

yes

this one being most impressive one as he had no business being in that final tbh

barely made it to ti and made it all the way

looked like bad team in lcq but made it work anyway

[buoyant sage]

hope muerta is like puppet master in HoN

[tight sluice]

Nah she'll be the first true adc in dota

No turnrate

Full on lol champ

[buoyant sage]

[tight sluice]

nah she'll probably be a carry

with guns and shit

[buoyant sage]

that would be the easy design

therefore shitty design

if shes like puppet master then we talk

[tender fox]

sniper but with 2 guns

[tight sluice]

LMFAO

I just found 5 fucking bounty runes

in our jg

[versed matrix]

🤔

[distant yoke]

Is this a wings style TI win

Just slower

[vital pollen]

Think wings was revered cause they just played every hero

Defying the meta, picking 30 different heroes in 6 games etc

[errant tusk]

theyt did lose games with rly stupid heroes

like they lost pudge/techies games

coz

closest comparison i guess tho would be wings

coz they kinda picked a lot of diff stuff, even offmeta stuff

and still just won

[distant yoke]

Ye

Like skiter played medusa for the first time in 5 months

In the last game

But i guess they have a solid core of heroes they can abuse

But like watching this secret series, it never really felt like secret had a chance. And i am not sure ive had this feeling with a lot of teams

[errant tusk]

ye only game 2 felt equal a little

and rest was mostly stomps

its because they made lesh look weak and stupid

and secret comitted to 1st pick lesh 3 games in a row and it found no success whatsoever

[vital pollen]

think tundra always had good track record against the rest of EU, didnt they?

its like aster in china

they win against most chinese teams, they just dont win against international teams that often

the other tundra games definitely looked a lot closer

[errant tusk]

tundra was doing rly well for 80% of the dpc

they just did bad at the very end of season

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

the last 2 tournaments they played after roster swap were rly bad

[vital pollen]

having to get used to new pos4

isnt easy

[errant tusk]

i thought myself they're gonna fall flat

but aui did great work

thats coach diff

[vital pollen]

ye

psure they couldve just kept the old roster and still do the same with aui

cuz fata is a great player as well

[errant tusk]

i heard story they wanted to kick sneyking but fata didnt want to

[distant yoke]

do you like the idea of LCQ

[errant tusk]

so they kicked fata

[vital pollen]

yeah

thats what happened

fata said "we dont kick sneyking, we will do fine"

so they kicked him instead

[distant yoke]

[vital pollen]

cause they really wanted saksa

[errant tusk]

well he wasnt wrong

saksa is better player than both of them

[vital pollen]

yeah

but like

ya know

they couldve developed without him as well imo

tbf sneyking isnt very good

mechanically

but the differencemaker imo is aui

could really see how well they utilized the jungle and their farming patterns throughout different stages of the game

id reckon thats something aui brought to the table for sure

[errant tusk]

i feel like every ti is decided upon the offlaner being best player

at least for recent years idk

[vital pollen]

and like

that marci/visage shit

is aui strat 100% as well

cuz thats like

some envy level cheese

[errant tusk]

you can meme ee but he made people think about the game in different ways

[vital pollen]

ye

he was a math nerd

[errant tusk]

but yea 50/50

[vital pollen]

but it paid off a lot imo

[errant tusk]

either could be genius

but could also be as stupid

[vital pollen]

lots of strats that come down to just weird interactions that make sense when you dive deep into the mechanics

[errant tusk]

im suprised this entire series ignored beast entirely

no pick no ban

[vital pollen]

mhye

well im not surprised cuz neither team really likes to play it

both teams have different offlaner styles

reso is more of a midgame carry style

[errant tusk]

nine played it mid

[vital pollen]

and neta always loved his zoo heroes

[errant tusk]

once or twice

[vital pollen]

so rn thats just very in

[errant tusk]

and as usual team that isnt even close to being favourite wins

[vital pollen]

hmye

just sad we didnt get to see more of RNG/spirit

but spirit bombed in groups

[errant tusk]

rng got outplayed by covid

[vital pollen]

and RNG just got fucked

but they looked really good

[errant tusk]

rng could've done way more

[vital pollen]

this wouldve been maybe meta

[errant tusk]

just look at their game vs entity

100 minute game while being ill

like you win that game

[vital pollen]

ye

while

[errant tusk]

10/10 times

[vital pollen]

entity can hear casters

and they dont understand

and still almost won

[errant tusk]

while no external factors

[vital pollen]

really sad

[errant tusk]

hope secret doesnt make changes to their team

[vital pollen]

cuz like

[errant tusk]

and just stick to that squad

[vital pollen]

matu had a great ending to his career now

[errant tusk]

unless puppey decides to retire

then just abandon it

it wont work without him

[vital pollen]

but then you have people like ame, faith bian, maybe

who have to end it on a TI like this

[errant tusk]

ame can blame only himself

he had 3 good chances

and he blew them all

[vital pollen]

true

[errant tusk]

he was favourite every time too

[vital pollen]

the thing is

[errant tusk]

in comparison puppey made 4 finals

[vital pollen]

theyre not even that old

[errant tusk]

ti2 he wasnt that big of a favourite to win

ti3 was 50/50

and this ti he had no business being in finals imo

[vital pollen]

so its a bit weird that theyre retiring

cuz like

ame is 25, faithbian is 24

maybe 26

[errant tusk]

maybe just cba being on valve's terms

[vital pollen]

most EU/NA players dont retire until their 30s

[errant tusk]

the system just doesnt reward consistency

[vital pollen]

ye

unless you consistently make 2nd

ig

which was the case for LGD

[errant tusk]

ye lgd case that shouldnt even happen

[vital pollen]

players like ame or maybe

[errant tusk]

you shouldnt be able to make back to back finals

[vital pollen]

dont need the prizemoney anyway

they earn enough from salaries

[errant tusk]

the game is too idk delicate

dont know what word to use

game just changes a lot with patches

and its easy to not be the best

[vital pollen]

the fact they were placing top4 this often

this consistently

was fucking impressive imo

[errant tusk]

ye that shouldnt happen

[vital pollen]

i seriously hope

maybe goes another year

that team they have is amazing

http://puu.sh/Jqiag/3a7c6bd952.png

[errant tusk]

i have a feeling spirit suffered from the ukraine/russian war

think they dont live with their families, maybe dont even see them often

sounds rough

its just not talked about

[vital pollen]

yeah maybe

hard to judge

i just want another year of maybe mid

[errant tusk]

maybe valve does sth to make people play

rework dpc in some way

[vital pollen]

yeah would be nice

it'd just be a shame

to see people quit in their prime

imo ame played the best he ever has

but didnt even make top3 this time

[errant tusk]

he played sick last ti

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

buuuuuuut still lost idk

from watching that truesight it felt like they trolled game 2 surely

[distant yoke]

at some point you deserve the fruit of your labour

if you cant win after 3 TIs

do you REALLY deserve it then

[vital pollen]

yeah

[distant yoke]

surely somethings wrong

[vital pollen]

cause coming in 2nd/3rd 3 TIs in a row

is more impressive than winning one

[errant tusk]

yea its more impressive for sure

[distant yoke]

ye its super impressive and LGD is one very impressive team

but like

[errant tusk]

the thing with puppey is his biggest achievement isnt winning ti1

[distant yoke]

ppl remember champions

[errant tusk]

its being on top of the game for so many years

[vital pollen]

its more of a prestige thing

i doubt any of these players need the money

[distant yoke]

nah

[errant tusk]

nah lgd people didnt do it for money

[distant yoke]

this TI was "low" prize money

[errant tusk]

arent doing it for money*

[vital pollen]

psure people like maybe, sumail, ame etc.

are getting paid 5-figure monthly salaries, easy

and can make a fortune just streaming once they quit

[errant tusk]

ye china money is big

[vital pollen]

also much more relaxed

than playing pro

so i can understand the desire to quit early

focus more on family and evolving beyond the game

as a caster or streamer etc.

most of the top-tier pros from chinese teams become coaches

or casters

[errant tusk]

yea the older you get usually less you care about that stuff and priorities changes

hence spirit run made sense because they were all young and unproven and rly wanted it

[vital pollen]

yeah

just sad to see maybe go out like this

[errant tusk]

ye its sad

play entire year for this

[vital pollen]

easily top3 greatest mid of all time

yeah like

he already wanted to quit last year

but said "one more try"

they qualify

they omega smack groups

then covid

eliminated in 100min game bo1 match where enemy can hear casters

while your coach cant be there during draft

[errant tusk]

did they announce where next ti is at?

[vital pollen]

nah but betboom said their sources say its gonna be back in seattle

other sources say somewhere in EU

cuz we never had EU TI

since bucharest doesnt really count

[errant tusk]

ok

poland ti

polska gurom

[vital pollen]

cant really count a TI where there was no one attending/watching it live

cuz covid

[errant tusk]

tbh would be such a waste of time having it in poland

people care about lol like 500 times more

[vital pollen]

katowice esl events

were always so good

[errant tusk]

thats mostly coz of cs

cs events made it 'famous'

also venue is somewhat legendary you could say

[vital pollen]

ye

[errant tusk]

very important historically to many sport events

[vital pollen]

TI in katowice

would honestly be so good

big dota population

[errant tusk]

they'd probably make it in krakow if anything id say

[vital pollen]

easy to get to for all europeans

[errant tusk]

like csgo major

was in krakow

[vital pollen]

ye maybe

krakow is bis

such a beautiful city

[errant tusk]

but yea waste of time making it in poland

[vital pollen]

id live there if i could

[errant tusk]

noone cares for dota

in here

[vital pollen]

you do

youre not no one

[errant tusk]

the dota community is so small

i made a full circle

within polish community

[vital pollen]

idk

esports scenei n general in poland is pretty strong though, no?

mostly cause csgo

[errant tusk]

ill say

[vital pollen]

most of them would watch dota for sure

[errant tusk]

that if valve decided to ban all russians because of the war

then everyone would be complaining about polish people in csgo

yelling random polish shit

100%

[vital pollen]

hahahaha

true

[errant tusk]

so yea its kinda big id say

[vital pollen]

was funny playing with you

[errant tusk]

i mean being realistic

[vital pollen]

and seeing you and your mate tilt

and drop gamer words

[errant tusk]

that would happen

100% once the russian is gone from voicechat

it would be replaced by polish

in csgo

maybe turkish or sth

[vital pollen]

yeah

or germans

[errant tusk]

they do be like talking native language a lot too

[vital pollen]

but germans just speak in

super broken english

[errant tusk]

ye germans just have strong accent

[vital pollen]

where you can hear after 2 syllables

that theyre germans

[errant tusk]

ye

but speaking about language thing im suprised only now we heard scret is doing something like that

where reso/zayac lane together and just talk in native

suprised that wouldnt happen often than that or maybe people just dont talk about it as much

[vital pollen]

think its mostly cuz

[errant tusk]

liquid could've commed in swedish i guess too

[vital pollen]

puppey can understand it

[errant tusk]

on some lanes

well nisha dont know where he is from

[vital pollen]

and nisha probably gets most of it too still

its only saksa where im like

[errant tusk]

but if he is from eastern boarder

[vital pollen]

he probably has no clue

not saksa

[errant tusk]

you mean crystallis

[vital pollen]

crystallis

and he doesnt have to worry anyway

[errant tusk]

if nisha is from eastern part of poland

there is rly big odds he knows cyrillics