#agony
forest sinew
a
fix that, ez gains
so this is generally fine to do, but looking at this pull
there's 10 mites
two of these
three of these
a destroyer
north acorn
Wait which enchant is better for m+?
forest sinew
and 2 gorgers
forest sinew
Wait which enchant is better for m+?
probably any secondary stat enchant
pick one at random
either way, there's what
10 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 2
18 mobs in this pull
and you hit garrote 3x?
can't do that
north acorn
Oh
forest sinew
2 ruptures are fine, with that amount of mites probably a third rupture, maybe a fourth, just to make sure your scent stacks are keeping up
but like you gotta be spreading for energy, for damage
north acorn
Do I overcap combo points to just spam garrote over and over?
forest sinew
no
you just replace fan of knives
but you can actually see exactly that happening
you cast your 2 ruptures
the small mites died
you lose all your scent stacks
and then you're just sad and pathetic
north acorn
Ahhh
north acorn
So I need to track the buff when I come out of stealth for how long I can cleave ruptures/garrotes?
forest sinew
So I need to track the buff when I come out of stealth for how long I can cleave...
you could, yeah
I think generally that's a good idea
next thing you cannot do
north acorn
And then after it ends, I don't need to use rupture/garrote anymore because it wont cleave, unless I have under 5 scents?
Until next vanish I guess
forest sinew
yeah outside of stealth you just rupture for max scent
north acorn
Ok
forest sinew
but explain this to me
why is there a darkest night in the middle of this pull
for 17 seconds
north acorn
That's where I need to fok to consume it?
forest sinew
sorry what
north acorn
I forget the names of things lol
forest sinew
darkest night is the deathstalker capstone
the big guaranteed crit envenom that does +92% damage with the tier set
hits for like 40mil, reapplies the mark
north acorn
Oh so I just didn't hit envenom for 17 seconds?
north acorn
Oof
forest sinew
is a higher priority than crimson tempest
or rupture
in single target, you would consume darkest night and let rupture fall off if needed
and now think about AoE, where that giga envenom also would spatter
north acorn
Oh yeah
I think I pulled weapon enchants from archon.gg but I guess they use those for raiding? Are the secondary ones that big of a DPS increase?
forest sinew
yeah so you just do this all the time
generally would recommend double rupture, then the crimson tempest
you're commonly getting into situations where you crimson tempest and just whiff like 1/3rd of the pack
cause it's not grouped up yet
north acorn
I went through some higher rogue openers and they do ambush garrote rupture crimson tempest so I copied
forest sinew
I think I pulled weapon enchants from archon.gg but I guess they use those for r...
archon 
good one
north acorn
Not good to use?
forest sinew
none of that shit is
north acorn
I look at archon and murlok
forest sinew
north acorn
Oh damn, both trash?
north acorn
forest sinew
archon at least pulls from log data
murlok just pulls armory data when they log out
so people just copy top player and walk into m+ with raid talents
cause they logged out in raid talents after raiding
north acorn
Lol!
north acorn
Ok thanks for pointing out those major issues!! I appreciate it
forest sinew
archon is similarly braindead
north acorn
Hope that didn't exceed 5 min
forest sinew
because the entire concept of archon
is that most popular = best
so the entire webpage just turns into "if a million people walk off a cliff, would you also?"
north acorn
Yeah but then it's hard to understand why they use those for +18 keys
north acorn
Oh actually, is my ST ok? I always struggle on ST and I tell my team that sin ST is bad but they don't believe me
north acorn
Oh wow they delay their CT for a while till it's all grouped
forest sinew
okay so on the last fight for example
you had the boss + 2 phase blades
what the hell is this
you're spreading to the ghosts of your imagination or what
north acorn
Lolol I think they weren't next to boss maybe and they didn't get it so I had to reapply
Like I opened on boss then they came in
forest sinew
okay now I'm upset
I scrolled for another 20 seconds
you rip a shiv here when they pulled in, this is immediately after
that's fine
note the time stamp
then you rip another one here
30s later, okay
and then jesus christ
your deathmark is right there
there's no second shiv
north acorn
Oh too close to deathmark coming up so I didn't have it
forest sinew
not only is there no second shiv
that's like
bad
but then immediately after that
oh my god
you're literally trying your hardest to not line up your cooldowns
you have 3 cooldown buttons
and you managed to find the one way
to not line any of them up
forest sinew
yes
north acorn
Then I can burn a vanish and 1x shiv between death mark?
north acorn
forest sinew
this is your fight
now, the baseline understand that needs to occur here
deathmark is 2 min, vanish is 2 min
vanish gives you imp gar and master assassin
deathmark duplicates your garrote (including improved garrote)
shiv buffs nature and bleed damage
north acorn
Yeah
forest sinew
so you vanish, improved garrote, double it, buff it with shiv, shiv gives you big envenoms
everyones happy
you get into zoldyck range, all of those things are even stronger
so here's what you did
red here is imp gar
blue is deathmark
green is your shiv
and the grey circle is your vanish
so you going into the fight without a deathmark means you fucked over your execute deathmark that should've been there
but you also didn't line shit up
so now, how this SHOULDVE gone down
north acorn
Oh so for a 3 min boss fight I should hold deathmark from pull before so it's available on pull, so I have a 2nd for execute?
forest sinew
not drawn to scale very well
but like
you get your deathmark
double shiv
you get 1 shiv in lingering for big darkest night like usual
that's like 45s in
then your next dm/vanish combo is at 2 min
so you get 1 more shiv (2 in this case cause you'd have to delay deathmark for the vanish)
and then you hold for 2 charges again when you line everything back up
north acorn
Ohhhh I get it now. On opener I don't even need to vanish until my imp gar expiring
forest sinew
yeh
and whats even better
is that you kinda don't need to care about deathmark in aoe
it's not cleaving anything
north acorn
Then for next deathmark I vanish to apply a fresh imp garrote
forest sinew
like in a giga aoe pull, deathmark is pure single target
provides nothing in the cleave department
so if a boss is coming up
just hold that shit
most bosses in like the 12-15 range
will be around 3 min
2:40-3:30
so if you're going into the boss with a deathmark, you will get another up in execute
forest sinew
depends on how long the fight is
but generally the last dm should be in execute
so if the boss is like 40%
yes
you would hold
north acorn
Ah
north acorn
Haha
forest sinew
so like in your first pull on that eco dome
this was your cleavable damage from deathmark
which is a total of uhhhhh
just shy of 8mil damage
north acorn
Yeah I didn't realize the imp garrotes on a pull added up to that much value. Now I'll def do garrotes until I cant
forest sinew
so lets say that 4.2 mil damage spattered perfectly onto all 18 targets in that pull
and there was no DR on caustic cause I'm too lazy to calculate that
so all 18 get the full 40%
that's 720% of that original 4.2 mil
you cleaved a total of 30 min
which is uh
like 3%?
but again, that's no diminishing return or anything
north acorn
Yeah
forest sinew
it's just giga bad
basically just a prio damage button
and you get lingering
which is the actual juice
so you wanna hit it to get your lingering darkness
north acorn
The imp garrotes really add that much massive value in AOE tho? Is it the raw damage it does or mostly the energy it gives?
forest sinew
both, yes
your garrotes from stealth here on the first pull
did 70% more damage than a rupture
(including bone spike and corrupt the blood)
like hitting your deathmark
did 20 mil prio damage
hitting garrote from stealth
is 17mil
your envenoms uncleaved are 3mil
north acorn
Damn
forest sinew
stealthed garrotes hit like a fucking truck
north acorn
That's insane
forest sinew
unstealthed? ehhhhhhhhh.........
they also only give 1cp from stealth
sorry, without
and they don't cleave
so like, cleaving garrotes out of stealth?
big shit
north acorn
Thank u so much! I've learned so much
forest sinew
but from stealth? nukes
also you have to think a little bit about sanguine blades right
your crimson tempest is eating 2 energy on 18 targets every tick
that's 36 energy every tick
north acorn
Yeah
forest sinew
so on top of your energy expenditure from just casting abilities, which is about 35 energy/second
you're looking at just a raw deficit of 105ish energy/sec
sorry
wrong math again
more like 55ish
and you gotta overcome that
with garrotes and ruptures
forest sinew
you don't necessarily "lose" it
but like you'll bounce under 50%
and then it won't trigger
so you'll be above 50%
and it'll trigger
and you'll just pogo around 50%
north acorn
But that loss in uptime is big right?
north acorn
In ST do I play around that too? Espec cuz envenom sucks
forest sinew
no
north acorn
Oh
forest sinew
sanguine blades just goes crazy in aoe
when you have more bleeds ticking
and so like when you garrote, those extra garrotes are also eating energy
you go from 8 energy per tick to 6 on garrote/rupture
cause they're gonna eat
and then you have to deal with the CT eating
forest sinew
more like 55ish
so like think about this 55ish
north acorn
Yeah didn't realize it would be that much
forest sinew
and you're getting +6 back from gar/rup
(this math is getting very simplified)
but like 10 barely gets you there
and with more haste, your CT ticks more
your gar/rupture too
but like if you're starting in the hole, you gotta dig your way out
so the way you get all that energy, is the 5 ruptures from stealth for scent of blood
then the ruptures kinda lose value cause they cost combo points
and you could spend that on something else
but garrotes? the thing they're competing with is fan of knives
north acorn
Yeah and those don't do any dmg
forest sinew
and from stealth that is not a competition
out of stealth yeah obviously fok way better
north acorn
Yeah
forest sinew
so you gotta leverage that to get out of the hole
north acorn
Ahhh I feel like I can do 2x my DPS now lol
Just with fixing my CD management around deathmark and adding more ruptures and imp garr
forest sinew
especially on ST bosses going in with the cds synced and getting that extra dm in execute
will be a lot
north acorn
Thank you! This help means so much to me
forest sinew
np