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[olive burrow]

hi

gonna take a quick looksie

right off the bat this is pretty bad

should swap that to radiant power and whetstones

depths is a pure single target enchant

so don't really like that

[tawdry shale]

Oh, easy fix. Thanks!

[olive burrow]

right at the start of the first pull I'm seeing a bit of a weird choice rotationally

so you enter with stealth, this is first pull stonevault

so this is a massive pull

lookin like 12 targets

and yet I only see 2 garrotes?

and then the moment your subterfuge drops you vanish, presumably to spread more garrotes

which you then..... don't do

not quite sure why the vanish there if you're not going to use it, but just off this, especially with subterfuge there's not reason to be ignoring your stealthed garrotes

they're one of your biggest sources of damage

so with 12 targets I should really see like 5 or 6 garrotes from stealth

if you're efficient at target swapping then technically 4

but you didn't target swap on pull here so yeh, probably 5 or 6

should have it on everything

the vanish seems pretty unnecessary here as well, I'm seeing the first mobs die as early as 4.5 seconds after your vanish

kinda just vanishing into an already dead pack

typically you'd want to save it for bosses, chain pulls, or packs that will last long enough to justify re-bleeding enemies

yeah and then pull 2 I'm also questioning some things here

it's again a pretty large pull, 9 or 10 mobs

so again should be seeing more garrotes

the shiv is fine but just as a reminder, it does no aoe damage and doesn't boost your caustic at all, so you're only using it here for prio damage on the mob you're envenoming

for just aoe damage it is not worth using past 4 or 5 enemies

the concerning part though is that crimson tempest at 0:53

that was a 7cp crimson tempest, so it lasts 18 seconds

this pull goes all the way to 1:36

so I should be seeing a crimson tempest roughly somewhere around 1:10ish and then another one around 1:20-1:25ish depending on the cp

and it is just nowhere to be seen

crimson tempest is a ludicrously strong button in aoe, you gotta be maintaining that at all times

just on this pull alone, your 1 single cast of crimson tempest is competing damage wise with THIRTY FIVE fan of knives casts, and straight up beating your garrote damage

that is a nearly 16mil finish you pressed at the start of the pull, not counting sanguine, which easily puts it over 20mil with a single press

that is insane.

all of the deathmark duplication+kingsbane on the first boss only did 12 mil as a comparison

[devout agate]

@tawdry shale Just making sure you're seeing all of this and didn't ditch out just yet. :)

[olive burrow]

the other thing I'm starting to notice here is that after your initial standard 2 gar 2 rup opener, on some of the longer pulls where they're dropping off you're not really reapplying much

its kinda hard to tell because m+ logs suck and I'm not gonna go through and check the time of the rupture was cast + the duration and the time the mob is dying and whatever

cause that's a massive fucking headache

[plucky walrus]

Even if he isn't here, don't worry I am taking notes

[brave shoal]

Wouldn't it be funny he was like "oh, ofc, the weapon enchants!! Thanks!" And leaves xD

[olive burrow]

but in general some of these mobs are like 40 seconds

seeing a couple bigger guys with at least 40

and there's just not a lot of ruptures occuring here

[tawdry shale]

This is massive guys, than you so much

[olive burrow]

so I would suggest maybe looking more at your scent of blood stacks

[tawdry shale]

just reading as I do some work on the side!

[olive burrow]

% agility while a small number is a huge multiplier damage wise

so the 4% from a rupture is pretty big

conceptually there's 2 reasons to rupture in aoe, for energy and for scent stacks

I think of it a little like downward steps

[tawdry shale]

So the biggest things right now... simply to make a very easy "to do" list

1. swap enchants
2. increase rupture dots and focus more on the uptime when fighting multiple targets
3. increase crimson tempest uptime when fighting multiple targets

[olive burrow]

very messy ms paint

but with 0 ruptures, you got big giga value right

you have your 3 sbs stacks

no bleeds out so no energy income

no scent stacks

so that first rupture cast is like 6cp + 15 energy a second + 12% agility + damage

huge

but as you get your garrotes and ruptures going

you're just flooded with energy

so that's the first step down

gar gar rup alone is enough to sustain your energy forever

after that the second step is hitting the 20% cap on scent, and then rupture value is kinda garbage

[tawdry shale]

Yeah, I think I often fail to keep applying the bleeds to more targets after I do my opener and I stay on one prio/focus target and do aoe from there

[olive burrow]

that's why in opener the 2 ruptures, hit 5 targets

and gg

you're good to go

but garrotes hit like a truck from stealth and you wanna be spamming those to hit everythin

[thorn kernel]

a lot of learning from this thread. thank you very much

[olive burrow]

and you can get away with that for a long time honestly, in lower keys packs probably don't last long enough

you're like getting to the cusp where you gotta start paying attention to it though because in these 10's you're running into a pack every now and then where it is long enough to justify spreading a couple extra ruptures to get you to the end

that's only going to get more and more prevalent if you're gonna do 11's, maybe even 12's

lemme look at single target real quick and that should probably do it

[tawdry shale]

Yep. I started focusing more on that late yesterday, maybe the dawnbreaker even. At least I told myself to get better at it so its definately something I can fix

[olive burrow]

okay well

[devout agate]

Ouch

[olive burrow]

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt on that one

maybe not this boss

okay last boss mists looks a lot better

I'll look at that one

[tawdry shale]

FYI, hopping in to a meeting now at 10:00 but I will read once I am done

[olive burrow]

single target actually looking pretty good

(when you have cds going into it and don't flub it)

this is pretty textbook

now the minor nitpick I can do it that with 1 charge of shiv you technically don't wanna rip it directly with your kingsbane like that

and if you do rip it directly, it should be before so it buffs the initial hit

in the grand scheme of things, not really anything to write home about, but hey, if we're already here

kingsbane ramps with poison applications, so hitting it directly after kingsbane is kinda the worst place possible to put it

you're not buffing the intial hit which is pretty strong

but you're also buffing the start of the ramp which isn't strong either

I think in my guide I put the last 8 as a guideline

cause shiv is 8 seconds, kingsbane last 8 logically will be the strongest

that's what sims do as well

realisitically it ain't that serious you don't have to set an egg timer for it

but just not immediately after would be nice

this vanish also is super late

you're maybe cleaving the small adds with it

cause last boss mists

but those shitter adds don't really deserve the time of day until higher keys

so I'm not really a fan

I'd much prefer to see it on the tail end of the deathmark to keep the cds synced a bit better and extend your garrote/master assassin buff for the end of kingsbane into your lingering darkness window after your cds from deathstalker

we don't play around lingering darkness at all

but if we're gonna vanish and get a crit buff, may as well be during a window where there is at least something happening ya know

your second cooldown window here on the boss is actually nearly exactly what I'd want to see

this is fantastic

we got an envenom beforehand, we shiv a little into the kingsbane to let it ramp a few seconds who's counting exactly how many seconds it doesn't matter

the vanish comes in to give us the big crit buff, its lasting until the end of the kingsbane, we're getting improved garrote during deathmark for the duplication

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

mean old whispyr gotta be mad about something

kingsbane is 14 seconds, deathmark is 16 seconds

deathmark duplicates poisons, so faster kingsbane ramp cause 4 poisons instead of 2

so that first second of kingsbane isn't ramping as quickly as it should and that's a dps loss

again, realistically who gives a shit

but if we're gonna nitpick we're gonna nitpick

[olive burrow]

so in general, this to do list is spot on, adding
4. hold shiv for a couple seconds into kb

is there anything else.....

uhhhh

checking for caustic uptime is a huge pain in the ass but like pull 1 mists here

there's a gap in both caustic and crimson tempest

just like crimson tempest, caustic is the other big aoe thing you gotta pay attention to

[tawdry shale]

Meeting done, let me catch up

[olive burrow]

gar/rup are the gasoline to keep the car running, but caustic/crimson tempest are the actual oompf

so making sure you keep an eye on that as well probably good

doesn't look TOO bad most of the time but I am seeing a couple gaps

[mellow cape]

if you take one thing away from this it's that CT is up there with maintaining caustic in prio in aoe.

[olive burrow]

there's a couple of pulls at the end especially after mistcaller

where it's real bad

oh also you can finish on 5 a lot more I think

I'm seeing back to back foks on 5

which is kinda strange

[tawdry shale]

I think for me one challenge is that I am playing a melee dps for the first time in 20 years so I am often not good enough at actually staying in melee safely as I am not too confident in my ability to stay alive. Knowing melee dps strats in all dungeons better would help me as well to spend my focus on actually DPSing properly rather than moving away from shit on ground

[olive burrow]

yeah and that's fine, dodging things is #1

that's what you got CT for :P

[tawdry shale]

Haha

Honestly CT is something I didnt know what that strong. I dont know why as its easy to maintain in aoe with fok so should be simple.

I appriciate all your help on this btw

[olive burrow]

yah that's really the big one

the rest is kinda minor things to mastery

[mellow cape]

melee is able to be a lot more reactive than ranged, you can deal with stuff as it happens and so long as you're within range of the boss you've lost nothing. unlike range we don't have to pre-plan movement that much, remember you can always shadowstep allies too to get out of a mechanic

[devout agate]

To be fair, you're not alone. A lot of people fail to recognize how big of a powerhouse CT is, and has always been.

Some people even consider dropping CT entirely in mythic+, which is so wild. And dumb.

[tawdry shale]

Quick question that probably is already covered in some guides, but how many targets needs to be present before its worth keeping up CT in my rotation?

[olive burrow]

and hold cds for the burst on first boss :)

[tawdry shale]

2? 3? 4?

[olive burrow]

2

it's like 6-7% away from being worth casting in single target, spooky close, and at the start of the season we actually did CT in single target until they fixed a bug with our tier bonus

[tawdry shale]

HAH, I know! Honestly I have no idea of time in this instance so I was like, sure, CDs will be up again. They were not.

[olive burrow]

but with the this thing on CT

that's 0% in single target

[tawdry shale]

Aaaaaah

[olive burrow]

and 40% in 2 target

[tawdry shale]

Okito, makes sense

[olive burrow]

so it's VERY close to being worth against 1

but then in 2 target it's already crazy

cause you're essentially going from 100% damage on 1 target to 140% damage on 2 targets

100 -> 280% is huge

[tawdry shale]

Yep. Noted

Okay, I think I have some concrete things to move with.

1. Swap enchants to radiant power and use whetstones
2. Increase uptime of Rupture on multiple targets
3. Increase uptime for Crimsom Tempest on 2+ targets.
4. Less overcapping of CP with FOK/Mutilate.
   4a. Should I cast all abilities with 5 CP? If not that Eviscrate buff is up from my hero taltents, then I cast with max (7)?
5. Hold shiv a bit longer into KB.

[olive burrow]

[devout agate]

Just know, that the #1 is probably the least important thing. If you ever come across doing less dps than you want, 99% of the time it's because of something in the rotation.

[tawdry shale]

Yep, but its also probably the simplest thing to cross of the list. :D

[devout agate]

So don't get too hung up on trying to figure out the ultimate best possible enchants/gems/combinations for your gear, most of the time it's super whatever and you pressing CT earlier in a pack will do you much more justice.

[devout agate]

For sure!

[tawdry shale]

Crossing things of lists is my favorite thing to do

[olive burrow]

4a, yes

and in this case depths->power is probably pretty significant actually

[devout agate]

A lot of people just get very hung up on stat weights and whatnot, whereas it's super whatever

[olive burrow]

yeh fuck stats

[tawdry shale]

Yeah, macro vs minimal gains

[devout agate]

Yeh for sure, going from 0% to whatever Radiant gives is definitely a big jump

Just generalizing for the future

[olive burrow]

mhm

[tawdry shale]

This was very insightful guys. I dont know how discord works that well but if this thread stays I will report back in a few days time to let you know how things are going

[devout agate]

It should be up, it gets auto-archived in a 2 weeks IIRC.

[tawdry shale]

Cool beans

[devout agate]

Or manually archived if the bossman so decides.

:P

Gl!

[tawdry shale]

Thank you all, appriciate it

[olive burrow]

I generally lock threads after the convo has happened and then open a new one, but the thread will still be visible to review, just no new messages

keeps it clean and prevents random spam bots and necro posts and stuff

but feel free to come back later in the main channel with your results