adam.94 - Log Review

[simple berry]

Please post the link from WCL in this channels for others to see.

[hardy gulch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jKnw7cdqyGCpA8Jz

[strange rivet]

Pwek u see my answer here ?

[hardy gulch]

yessir 🙂

[strange rivet]

so just to tell you about the start

i took your log agaist first boss

first i see you dont use macro

[hardy gulch]

I do not

[strange rivet]

you should

it helps to keep the phasing of buffs cooldowns

[hardy gulch]

for SS and Symbols?

[strange rivet]

so the goal would be to put in a macro the non-gcds spells with one gcd spell

so it should be stgh like :

/cast symbols
/cast shadow blades
/cast shadow dance
/cast rupture

but chck the good writing of the spells, i'm playing in french so i'm not sure about engish names

[tender oracle]

[strange rivet]

so you will not gain a lot

but a little + a little + a little is what makes the difference

[hardy gulch]

gotchu I figured I would want to Rupture before Shadow Dance so I can cast the imp rupture inside dance unless I'm completely misunderstanding the double finisher thing

[tender oracle]

Im not Sure if you should macro it tbh, without wanting to be mean

[strange rivet]

i mean, dance is not a gcd so if you press it just after or just before is the same

[tender oracle]

Only Thing i know is dance and Symbol macro

[strange rivet]

oh well

i see what u meant

actually you can even do dance+symbol+strike macro

[hardy gulch]

I appreciate the suggestion regardless, is there anything rotational that is a big thing you can see there?

[strange rivet]

Well you dont use backstab

[hardy gulch]

I keep forgetting to use it inside dance, Shadowstrike is just so tempting

Is it a big DPS loss?

[strange rivet]

Well, do you play with danse macabre talent ?

[hardy gulch]

Yea

6% for each different attack

okay that makes sense

so at least 1 backstab inside dance

[strange rivet]

so... using backstab will give 6% more dmgs to your attacks

i mean, the main rule for sub is like "just optimize your secret technique"

so.. backstab with danse macabre will give you 6% more dmgs on secret technique

[tender oracle]

You can Do backstab with blades up in sd

[hardy gulch]

Oh so only benefit to shadowstrike is cp generation?

So it has same prio inside dance with SS up

[tender oracle]

Well its a small optimization

#1180499062206763148 message

[strange rivet]

yeah and mhh.. shadowstrike has well more dmgs than backstab

[broken crystal]

Something I notice is you've hit Symbol's a little early around the 14 second mark - and then Dance about 5 seconds later. Ideally you want to be hitting those together (A dance for every symbols, rather than a Symbols for every dance)

[strange rivet]

i was typing same thing

[broken crystal]

Hitting a Backstab during the SB Dance window isn't really worth it, imo. You don't gain a lot and it's an overcomplication. I've never bothered with it.

[strange rivet]

Well yeah.... but... this is the thing with sub rogue

if you want the max dps, you have to get 1% here, 1% there etc ...

[hardy gulch]

If that's the case then I'm very confused because getting grey logs when most of my changes are small optimisations doesn't seem right

I kept thinking I must be doing something majorly wrong

[strange rivet]

just dont take care about the color of your logs, it depends on too many things

[broken crystal]

A lot of damage can be lost by misuing cooldown timings. Like the 5 second gap between your second dance and Symbols.

[strange rivet]

we sub rogue have probably the most irregular dps, i mean we do lot, then nothing, then lot... SOOOO it means that your log is very dependant of the fight duration, depending on your roster. Also, we sub rogues are the ones who profit the most of windufyr totem, so if there is no cham in your roster, you are doomed

and lot of other parameters, so dont take care about the color of your logs imo ^^

And also the trinkets....

[hardy gulch]

I appreciate that, I think I just need to make those small optimisations and focus more on CD management

[strange rivet]

if you have this trinket and ppl die during your fight, you will just use it more and deal more dmgs...

then get the good gear to have more activations of diurna's ring

[hardy gulch]

Yeah I have grieftorch, it's technically S-tier for progression on Sub and also S-tier for sin so I got it with bullions

[strange rivet]

very good choice imo

honestly, at first seeing, i dont see very great problems in your logs

be careful, most of your secret techniques damages are not in the good line

"Akaari's soul"

[broken crystal]

Something I notice too is you open with Flagellation (good) then Symbols, then a Rupture, then Dance, then another Rupture into SecTec. Ideally what you'd want to do is Flagellation -> Dance+Symbols -> Blades -> FInisher -> Strike -> SecTec.

I typically do this for my opening: Strike -> Strike -> Flagellation -> Dance+Symbols -> Rupture -> Blades -> Strike -> SecTec. We always want our SecTec to be our second finisher in our Dance window (So at 3 stacks of Danse, effectively).

On the Gnarlroot log, to be speciifc.

[strange rivet]

mhh i would disagree with that

[hardy gulch]

So you're saying my first finisher of the fight should be inside dance and then the 2nd one should always be secret tech?

I understand 2nd finisher in dance should always be secret tech

[tender oracle]

#1180499062206763148 message

[tender oracle]

This is btw the opener

[strange rivet]

if you play with that, it's logical to put your 2 rupture at strat

[tender oracle]

And you did this on volco

[broken crystal]

Yeah, have a look at what Tiramil linked.

[hardy gulch]

That looks okay except for the initial SnD

[strange rivet]

slice and dice should not be there since it's on talent

[tender oracle]

The flag is also inside dance

[strange rivet]

premeditation

[hardy gulch]

fucking yikes, you're right

[tender oracle]

Like you first global in dance would be rupture

But you have flag and a shadowstrike first

[broken crystal]

This is my opener on Gnarlroot, if it's at all helpful to visualize:

[hardy gulch]

Yeah that helps a lot

Thanks for the help everyone, I have a lot to work on - really appreciate the assist

[strange rivet]

i dont feel like it's the best opening imo ^^

[tender oracle]

Just try to look at the FAQ pwek, and practice it 10 Times on a dummy

So your muscle memory gets build up

[broken crystal]

Seconding that. Practice goes really far with Sub because it's all about building the flow up. We have a lot to pack into a small window.

[hardy gulch]

yeah, seems like more practice is needed. The class has kept the same feel since WotLK but the complexity has definitely went up.

[broken crystal]

Something I do is macro Symbols + Dance together (and then have a second button just for Dance on it's own). It makes the flow a little smoother for me personally.

[tender oracle]

But im outta here, im not a Main sub and im on Phone

[hardy gulch]

Thanks for you help! 🙂

[hardy gulch]

Yeah I think this might be best for me

[broken crystal]

It's how I can hit it so cleanly in the opener.

It's just: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /cast Symbols of Death /cast Shadow Dance
But you do want to have Dance itself bound too.

[hardy gulch]

Yeah, I'll bind all three separately (Symbols, Dance, Macro)

[broken crystal]

A good plan 🙂

Fuu's guides in the FAQ channel are incredibly helpful, too.

[hardy gulch]

Hopefully I'll come back in a week or two with a success story haha, thanks for all your help and pointers

[strange rivet]

if i may add some help again

In raid, you will always use strike after symbol+dance

So

just macro this :

/cast Danse
/cast Symbols
/cast Strike

then, if symbols is up, you have everywthing in one cast

if symbols is not up, but want to use danse+strike, i will still work

because symbols is not a gcd, the fact that it is not up is not a problem to get the macro work well

Then, you have a single macro for all the situations

So i use this macro when pressing "e" key :

/cast Pick Pocket
/cast [stance:0]Backstab
/cast [stance:1]Shadowstrike
/cast [stance:2]Shadowstrike

it makes me use backstab when not fufu or not on dance, and strike if fufu or on dance

(note that stance 2 is because i play nightelf, so it allows to shadowtsrike if i just use the nightelf vanish

so the "normal" backstab or shadowtsrike is on "e" key

and the buffed shadowtsrike is on "shift+e" key :

/cast Danse
/cast Symbols
/cast Strike

And because backstab under dance is only use on raid opening, i didnt put a key on it

just clicking on the screen

ah yeah and the "pick pocket" in the macro is because we have to not forget that we our thieves

it's not a gcd spell

so everytime you will hit an humanoid, you'll be able to steal it some gold

not a lot but... not a lot + not alot + ... you got it

but you have to get the automatic loot option activated

and the cursor of the mouse has to be away from the body of the humanoid you target, else it will not catch the money

and finally, if you play nightelf, you have a free shadowstrike with shadowmeld, by using this macro :

/castsequence shadowmeld, shadowstrike

@hardy gulch

Also, coldblood has to be used with secrettech only, so u can macro them

/cast cold
/cast secret

i put eviscerate on "r" key, and this macro on "shift+r" key

Aaaaaand also you should remove acrobatic strikes if u are suing right now

yes it's comfort, but it will disapear at TWW

so i guess it's important to get use to it as soon as possible

[hardy gulch]

Just saw all this, I'll give it a read over ty