#smarti_david - Log Review

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

terse sandBOT
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Please post the link from WCL in this channels for others to see.

versed swallow
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playing outlaw for like a bit under a week now and getting into the 25/26 bracked and would like to improve my gameplay

iron quarry
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Could you upload a short clip of your gameplay in keys?

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Like 2-3mn

versed swallow
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i rly dont have any idea, what program do i need?

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im sure i could clip a key or record the key

iron quarry
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Better use warcraft recorder

versed swallow
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doawnloading it rn

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i´ll hit you up when i have recorded a key

iron quarry
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Nice, it can be pretty hard to review outlaw log since it's a proc spec

versed swallow
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you need that weakaura that all the streamers have where you see what i press when i press it?

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since i have my actionbars not showing for a cleaner UI

iron quarry
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Huh yeah might be preferable
If you have an omnibar it should be fine tho

versed swallow
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you want a higher key or just a low level key just to see how i behave in pulls?

plush tapir
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KIR logs are really hard to analyze but some things:
You sometimes ps without opportunity proc.
I think you sometimes ps with relatively high cp. Saw for example SS, SS, PS which usually is a misplay with KIR.

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Finisher rules are really hard to check due to ER

iron quarry
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Also on the first pull you used dance before vanish

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You always prioritize vanish over dance, since dance will make vanish CD come back really quick

versed swallow
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Hmmm okay I actually have my trinkets binded in my dance just to make it easyer is a macro for trinkets w vanish better or just use them separate?

iron quarry
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I personally use a separate bind

plush tapir
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do not macro trinkets to vanish

iron quarry
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And yeah, this

plush tapir
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it will cause subterfuge to bug out

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I guessed that you had trinkets macroed to dance

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but that's not quite as bad tbh

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if you just wanna use one bind less you can maybe do /cast [nostealth] shadow dance

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so you can use vanish and then if you press dance in subterfuge you'll just send trinkets

iron quarry
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I'd say it's pretty bad since bandolier and mydas wants to be pressed asap 30s apart

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In a key, you'll lose a lot of uses

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If you don't do that

plush tapir
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I mean you can press dance key without having dance off cd

iron quarry
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Right

plush tapir
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if you do what I suggested

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but you'd have to remember to press it 😄

versed swallow
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Well let's say I start a pack with my buffs up I normally bladeflurry to get full cp und then send bte until my subterfuge window is gone then I would go into dance w trinkets then I would go vanish subterfuge bte but is makes sense to first vanish then dance but then I would lose trinket usage

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But I could test the nostealth thing

plush tapir
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yeah vanish first is much better

versed swallow
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Yeah makes sense

plush tapir
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sometimes you can go initial stealth window into vanish into dance into vanish again

iron quarry
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I mean, since you're not a beginner and you probably wanna minimax, I'd say to just use a separate bind

versed swallow
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Aight

iron quarry
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And bind it to a
/use 13
/use 14

Macro

plush tapir
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I have one macro like that

iron quarry
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It'll cast firt trinket when available, then second when available

plush tapir
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and one with just /use 14

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if I for some reason want to use second trinket first

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have some weakaura yell at you when trinkets are ready

versed swallow
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Also another problem I have is that dispatch mostly is over bte in my details wich I don't unterstand cuz I spamm the shit out of bte

versed swallow
plush tapir
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I don't have a generic one

versed swallow
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okay i´ll look it up

iron quarry
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I use naowhs wa that handles pot and trikets under my unit frame

versed swallow
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yeah me too but while im still learning i dont rly keep track that well at all times

iron quarry
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Yeah, it's a spec that needs time to get the muscle memory settled

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Before reaching that point it can be pretty hard to follow everything that's going on

versed swallow
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Well I do better now with separate macro for trinkets and vanish before dance but dispatch is still over bte in details and from what I can tell everyone says that's not normal but maybe they talk about HO and not KIR? I don't know enough about outlaw to tell if it's right or I'm generally doing something wrong

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And I would show a clip but I'm too dumb to get this wow recording thing working, sadly can only show logs

plush tapir
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Did you fix the order of vanish/dance too?

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Also important to never sit on vanish (and dance if vanish is on cd). As soon as you hit 6+ cp and vanish is available (and you are not already in a crackshot window obviously) just send it

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Usually worth it even at the end of packs unless it's like the last couple of gcds

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Are you saving ar for crackshot windows if buff is still up?

iron quarry
iron quarry
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I did not count BtE casts gained from Ace procs

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It might have to do with your dance/vanish priorites due to you priorizing dance because of your trinket macro

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Hard to say without some gameplay where we can have all teh data at once

versed swallow
plush tapir
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The last gcd in crackshot window one that you can get with !wa command in #outlaw is good

versed swallow
iron quarry
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hmm, and you're logging while in keys right?

versed swallow
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do i need all 3?

image.png
iron quarry
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nah if you got it working (as in, it installed, and it's running) you're all set

versed swallow
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and what should be in here? this is a bit of a problem dont know wich folder

image.png
iron quarry
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haaa

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xD

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yeah that's the issue

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create a folder where you have some space, and set a storage size that's convenient for you (go for a few GBs if you only want to use it for this log review)

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then point to that folder in that Storage Path box

versed swallow
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Just any new folder?

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think i got it to work now

iron quarry
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👍

versed swallow
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okay you want just a clip or should i somehow send whole key?

iron quarry
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let's start with a clip

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2 3mn should be fine

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i think the clipchamp windows app still lets you share clips?

versed swallow
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its from start to after first boss there are a few packs and a boss i´m ready for the roast

iron quarry
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  • minor, but before keys you can ask for a 25 pull timer so that you can rtb, kir, 25s pull timer, then RtB again after key is put in so that you start with 3 buffs always

  • first pack, you could start hitting way sooner with ToTT

  • you rerolled during stealth at 26s, not a big loss but most people would have done it inbetween two stealth windows

  • at 30s, you used PS when BF was up, I think I've seen that your BF usage is pretty good, but try to maximize it more, this is where KiR damage comes from in AoE

  • at 35s, during your dance, you SS's multiple time even though you were at 3- CP and had 3 FtH stacks

  • at 46cd, you dispatched instead of vanish + BtE (it's minor, but it's improving on things like this that makes you go from 90 to 100 parse)

  • ⚠️ biggest mistake I found for now: at 52s, you BF, Vanish, BtE
    At this point you have AR up, and this should be your highest priority, it's our most broken builder inside stealth and it should be abused

You did a good thing not to send AR as soon as it came off while outside of stealth, and waited for the previous AR to wear off.

  • minor: from 58s to 1:04s, you could have used one more BtE. Out of stealth, the conditions to send it are vanish < 45s and SD < 15s

  • One thing to note about KiR buffs: when they are <= 39s, you want to reroll them if you have the Loaded Dice buff.
    More explaination here #1136781225189716079 message

This means that after you used BR at 1:06s, you should have rerolled

  • at 1:14, you rerolled during stealth
  • at 1:34, you sent a 5 CP dispatch
  • at 1:42; you used PS during stealth when AR was off CD
  • at 1:57 you were on an anima CP and you used one more builder instead of dispatch
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(it's a mistake that happens to everyone, but still, the goal is to have every rotational GCD to be perfect)

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@plush tapir can you confirm that rerolling inside stealth is not optimal?

plush tapir
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Letting the buffs run out is bad, much worse than rerolling in a window

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The 39 sec extra kir reroll is actually pretty major

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But should be done outside of crackshot windows preferably

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Its not important that its exactly 39 sec but not a lot earlier at least

iron quarry
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  • ⚠️ at 1:43, you used KiR with only 3 buffs, this would have been correct if you sent AR right away and rerolled after stealth, you would have had a great chance to get 4 buffs. Tho, it is not advised to play KiR this way.

In general, you just want to send it when you have 4 buff.
There is a minmax you can apply here: wait until the last second before your CtO buff fades in case you get another CtO buffs during that time before using KiR.

  • at 2:37, as you go out of vanish, you held dance a lot and didn't use it until after your next vanish
  • at 3:20, that KiR on 3 buffs into reroll is a bit risky here, you didn't hold KiR for long, had loaded dice up and AR up
    so the less risky play here was to consume LD to refresh buff, wait for a CtO proc to KiR, then refresh with newly gained LD buff from AR to refresh when buffs <= 39s
  • at 3:28, you did a lot of mistakes opening the boss, using PS when full CP, using vanish too early
  • at 3:32, again you didn't prioritize AR in stealth
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To conclude:

  • your BF usage is pretty good, but can get better
  • your PS usage is pretty good, but can get better
  • your ER usage is pretty good, but can get better
  • your don't use RtB optimally (like at 1:14)
  • you don't use KiR optimally
  • you don't use AR optimally
versed swallow
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Well thank you a lot now I have some points to work on and improve and I think once I get comfy with the specc and start to understand it more I could do some damage now it's more of a I fuck up then get hardstuck on it fumble and fuck up even more if you understand me

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Granted I'm not that far of from the ppl I play with but there are some dungeons BRH in particular where I just get shit on by other people fall also is one

iron quarry
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Yeah, making mistakes happens to everyone, nobody is a robot. I pointed some that I know were misinputs/fumbles etc...
You got a pretty good grasp of the build, you really need to get those RtB, KiR and AR to be as optimal as they can

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You'll be hitting 98-99 parses in no time

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If you're unsure about what to press in some case, just check back on #outlaw-faq to get things in order

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And make sure you understand how KiR works, cause that's the most important thing in this build

versed swallow
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Well thank you, also is kir really better in m+ then ho? I started with ho felt like it's easyer but not that fun to play compared to kir but on the backed you almost see Noone playing kir

iron quarry
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KiR is really good in M+ since it gets a lot of value in AoE

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People stick to HO cause it's easier and less punitive

versed swallow
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Yeah so get 4 buff reroll with the AR buff at <39 sec is what I got now what I did not do well and also not fumbling and sending for example bte when vanish or dance comes up

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Yes sometimes I'm a bit energy starved which I know very well from sin/sub and when you pop your cooldowns get you good buffs and insta die it's like I really would like to quit the key at that point and this happened sometimes in the few days I play kir now

iron quarry
iron quarry
versed swallow
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Yes that's what I meant was supposed to say get 4 buffs, kir, reroll when <39

iron quarry
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Yeah, get that in order, stop rerolling inside stealth except to go from 1-2 buffs to 3 and always prioritize AR to generate CP in stealth

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with these 3 points you should get way more damage

versed swallow
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So sometimes I still am in ar while it gets off CD then when I have like 10sec still you say ar instead of bf? Because I did it the other way around to not waste uptime on ar but maybe it's not that big of a deal to lose some uptime

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I think in the same key there was a point where I still had 15sec ar but it was off CD again and I refused to press bcuz idk why

iron quarry
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When you're in stealth, AR is top priority

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Outside stealth, you don't use AR if you already have the buff

versed swallow
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Alright well man huge got a lot of things I can improve in from our conversation thank you very much

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Does this thread close itself? So can I later in time go back here and re-read some things or just screenshot because it auto deletes when time passes?

iron quarry
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huh i think it deletes after a while of people not posting in it

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so I guess you can just bump it if you need it to stay for a bit longer

versed swallow
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All good when I wake up and get to my pc I just screenshot it, mostly the long text I have to save cuz I think I'll re-read it just to really get it memorised

iron quarry
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yeah, anyways always happy to help!

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happy grinding

iron quarry
plush tapir
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Does it?

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You can get unlucky and replace 3 existing ones afaik

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Also, we haven't been able to prove a dps gain from making ld required for the 39 sec roll

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Doesn't seem to matter

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Doing that roll in some way is important though. Like 2% dps

iron quarry
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never happened to me, but idk

iron quarry
plush tapir
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I don't understand your reasoning, maybe I'm missing something

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LD guarantee 2 buffs, tier will always extend

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So tier removes one buff from the equation basically

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Without ld you have 2/5 to get one more buff I think

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With ld you have 2/5 and another chance with 2/4?

iron quarry
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ok I get it

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the 10% thing was to talk about getting 2 rolls on a natty rtb (i don't actually know how much % chance you have to get a 2nd roll)

But even you get 2 rolls you fall back on the RtB with LD case

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Would be cool to play around rules to see if it's worth waiting for LD buffs before rerolling

plush tapir
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We tried but it doesn't move dps

iron quarry
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yeah, figure

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s

plush tapir
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Maybe because sim has ld all the damned time

iron quarry
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yeah

plush tapir
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Maybe require ld but allow reroll earlier will work

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Give you more time to farm it back

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Although 39 sec should be enough tbh

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Especially since you are likely to have tb

iron quarry
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yeah

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at the very least i'll start rerolling with natty RtB if I don't have LD