right now
#DotA
stray yew
bat
stray yew
thats a 1st one
nah its mid
to deny mk mid
so mk will lane into tb
gives tb good lane coz mk is bad into tb lane
stray yew
surprisingly
idk why
he usually feeds on tank heroes
but its same with timber
he feeds on tanky str cores but its not good somehow
zeus
thats og tb counter
worn drift
ye idk
jolly crane
few more id say
stray yew
its kinda team dependent whats 1st phase
some teams love earth spirit an have good success with that from midlane
some love bristle
jolly crane
muerta, bristle, willow, grim, treant, es, ck, kunkka, bara, primal, dawn, aa, brew, ench, spec
jolly crane
ban 8 of those, pick rest
stray yew
oh ye spirit breaker
jolly crane
9/10 games
stray yew
i forgot about him
coz he is always blindly 1st phase banned
so i never ever see him
jolly crane
ye
worn drift
idk if i like kunkka 3 tho
jolly crane
brew still
one of the dumbest heroes imo
cause you just run down rax in ultra late
worn drift
ye
jolly crane
and no one can stop you
worn drift
i never knew brewlings do so much fucking dmg to structurse
worn drift
there was a game i was watching where dued was just running pandas at structures
worn drift
does it have siege dmg or some shit?
jolly crane
ye earth brewling just
4hits ranged rax
you can do some really disgusting shit with solar crest or alacrity
on earth brewling
stray yew
does it have siege dmg or some shit?
nah it just has passive when you click on it that says '4 times more damage to buildings'
or some shit like that ye
worn drift
wtf
stray yew
ah nvm its just flat extra
but its insane
270 extra
is insane
spirit bear has extra % damage
but its called the smae
but does sth else
jolly crane
brewmaster demolish used to be the same skill
with % increase
but they changed it at some poiint
jolly crane
but ye
worn drift
but ig bat can play eco mode while kunkka gets items
jolly crane
ranged rax have 1.3k HP
humble yew
and level
jolly crane
so brewling needs 4-5 hits for it
humble yew
you want your combo to be lethal
worn drift
more so you really want shard and aghs
his shard is UBER broken op
one of the best in the game rn
humble yew
safari moment
stray yew
holy 5 tps
jolly crane
its just
2 supports that were supposed to guarantee a good laning stage
and they didnt do that
and now theyre 2 supports that kinda dont do anything in the midgame
jolly crane
fairly fast diffusal
if he can get disperser
that might be big
kinda not doing anything with their kunkka atm
worn drift
ye idk about pipe
jolly crane
pipes fine if you plan on fighting
but if you plan on not even trying to push lanes
for the next 15minutes
then why pipe?
stone geode
this looks done then
stray yew
this is some worst gamee ever
worn drift
skiter is just the absolute worst
stray yew
30 minutes nothing happening
jolly crane
this is some worst gamee ever
this entire meta is
kinda miserable
if you dont have good treams playing
that believe in themselves
before theyre 6slotted on their 3 cores
stray yew
i mean i guess tundra was just scared of doing anything
coz elimination game
and 1 fight its over
stone geode
questionable items all over
jolly crane
ye
entity just kinda
destroying the hopes of teams that do really well in groups
last year RNG
this year tundra
tundra gonna come out of the booth and go
manic ermine
Egoisto popping off
jolly crane
"jokes on you, we won the last TI with a good prizepool"
stray yew
some of the people dont play for money im fairly sure
like rtz couldve quit 5 years ago
adn had 10 times more money from streaming
even if he won all tis
humble yew
jolly crane
ngl
some team is gonna be very happy about this result
because it means they can replace their pos3 with 33
humble yew
jolly crane
ngl
youd think this was
the piss easiest part of the lower bracket
to crawl out of
tfw you lose on every pos3 hero other than the 2 broken ones
stray yew
because it means they can replace their pos3 with 33
it would be criminal to let this guy leave
kick everyone else around but not 33 and aui
jolly crane
kick everyone else around but not 33 and aui
Ye
Imagine
Sr with aui and 33 instead of bulba+rtz
Psure 33 could play an insane pos1
worn drift
Idk if you put 33 on 1
You dont keep saberlight if you are sr
He isn’t really a player
Hes likes pos 3 skiter
Sr should ask rtz if hes willing to play pos 3 and then if he isnt just kick him lmao
jolly crane
Nah
Saberlight gets lots of hate but honestly
He played well this ti
He played well in dreamleague
worn drift
Dunno i think they all played bad, thats why they lost to tsm in lb first round 
stray yew
game 2 it didnt even matter
they made huge blunder in draft
whoever is responsible for taht
should get fired
worn drift
But i just dont think saberlight is even talented
Hes not like quinn
Where hes good just in bad team
Hes just bad
jolly crane
I don't get the saberlight hate honestly
Most of the wins of Sr, are on his back
Abed is overrated imo
But ppl still say he's wasted in that team
While most Sr wins are because saberlight carried the game while rtz was afk in jungle
Yet everyone blames him for the lost games, while rtz is afk in jungle
worn drift
I mean
They won 2 games in whole ti
Saberlight will get hate cause he is a lackluster player in a bad team ( a team that gets made fun of a lot as well)
stray yew
also tundra might just be fine tbh theyj ust plugged new player
unless they had huge expectations for some reasons
teams usually take almsot entire dpc season to figure out implementing new players
50/50 on whetheri ts a hit or miss
worn drift
because if you dont youre not going to play the game literally ever
at least if you buy bkb your hero is useful for a bit
without it you legit don't play
if you go no bkb's into torrent storm you may as well leave the game
worn drift
i like that talon just picks Q melee 4's every game
Did weaver aghs get reworked or is it still the ult save on teammates
worn drift
Ye if thats the case then its shit
Was wondering why no ones buying it on these 4 weavers
But that would explain it
stray yew
i dont get weaver 3
its like if earth spirit goes on someone or windranger and spec ults then its guranteed kill
so that makes sense
jolly crane
cast range is 0
always was
you always had to play either blink or aether lens on top
stray yew
naa it never was 0
jolly crane
well not 0 but like
stray yew
it was like 600 maybe in 1st iteration
jolly crane
was like 200
stray yew
but got nerfed
jolly crane
very quickly
stray yew
over and over
humble yew
jolly crane
that his earthspirit backed out
and he haunts in anyway
ngl its kinda weird how in this current meta
naix is kind of a dogshit carry
stray yew
i guess weaver 3 just works
humble yew
23 is so late on his farm jesus
stray yew
coz you have 2nd carry
kinda classic specter
tbh
he was into bad lane
aa + spec
is REAL shit lane
humble yew
it is lmao
stray yew
spec is so bad on lane
and jungling is super slow
and their ganks failed too
whenever he joined
so ye quite sad
humble yew
stray yew
ancient harbor
???????????????????????????????????????
worn drift
23
bb losing this
despite 23 trying his hardest to lose
sven just looked useless after awhile
ancient harbor
sorta happens to sven after a while right
stray yew
ye if you pick sven you need to end game in specific timing
ancient harbor
when you cant blink in and one shot someone
ancient harbor
it's sorta over for you
worn drift
dont know why so many teams still picking sven
is he really better than pa for example
jolly crane
harder to punish
sven kinda too strong unless you have lots of saves
but its just
not what people play
all these picks are just
lowerbracket teams playing shit they know from 3y ago
jolly crane
i can see situation alte game where ive fallen asleep
idk if its nerves or what but
man this is some low quality play
jolly crane
idk
invoker kinda
counters the willow but
hes missing all spells
unironically think
betboom couldve won this a while ago
but theyre too scared
worn drift
ye nightfall kind of a big pussy
jolly crane
and no team picks stuns anymore
invo kinda has to jump in
but cant
coud play void
time dilation kinda screws up that entire thing
but windaker would dispel it
just need aoe stuns and shit
but this is more boring than watching shadowdemon naga
back in 2015
worn drift
yea lol
its funny watching pudge just got deleted from willow and ench as he walks away with bkb
jolly crane
bb just has no hero that can actually go in
pudge kinda not good
invo just isnt a hero in the current meta imo
worn drift
no one can go in against this really
you'll just die
to willow autos and ench impetus
because its all magic or pure
worn drift
bb need neutrals
jolly crane
the willow doesnt actually do that much damage
its just hard to kill
its like the ursa build
with octarine/aghs/windwaker
worn drift
just windwaker it
worn drift
ye i mean true 23savage is an iguana tier carry
jolly crane
nah
worn drift
i wouldnt trust him either
jolly crane
its really not that easy
when you have 2sec downtime
between shadowrealms
vs 0.6sec
pretty significant difference
worn drift
just windwaker between realms
jolly crane
i mean it just doesnt work out mathematically
worn drift
you can go try it
ancient harbor
just die to aoe lmao
jolly crane
9.75sec cd on windwaker, 9sec cd on shadowrealm, 7sec duration on shadowrealm
and theres always some delay as well
the problem is basically, that you end up not being able to deal much damage
first 2sec of shadowrealm you do no damage
and if you have to overlap the windwaker towards the end to just stay "invulnerable", you do a bit of damage on 1 target 5 out 10sec, roughly
jolly crane
its just pure st damage
well yeah cuz they all play like pussies
53k damage in a 65min game is a joke
they have ench and willow, 2 insane singletarget lategame carries
and they still lost and it took them a long time to take down targets
worn drift
well seeing as muerta did 20k more in 65min game
jolly crane
ye
worn drift
idk heroes seems to do fine dmg
jolly crane
this meta is fucking dogshit
only reason talon had this much of a shot
was cause betboom decided to not play the meta either
worn drift
but also, i just tried it, you have no gaps except for when you land from windwaker and you cast realm again
but your spells are available
jolly crane
ye if you play against no enemies
try it again with an invoker tornadoing you, or a muerta silencing/fearing you
anyway
i think willow is a fine pick but like
its not this end all be all carry pick
theres a reason people lose with it
worn drift
well
its been picked only by 1 team that has won a lot
lgd
then it was
pakaz, rtz, and 23savage
so yes there is a reason people lose with it
jolly crane
sure but it cant be this omegabroken thing if you need a t1 carry player to win with it
i just dont see how it would win against a proper double str core lineup. play this into smth like an earthspirit or one of the heroes which can chain some proper aoe stuns like centaur, tide, or into a waterpark
and you might survive, sure, but you also do 0 damage as the pos1 in that fight
biggest strength of the willowpick imo is that its flexible in the draft
and you can just play it support if you want
worn drift
idk why he bought revenant brooch in it
just buy moonshard
moonshard is like the highest dps item on her
jolly crane
idk why he bought revenant brooch in it
dunno if you can attack the muierta with just shadowrealm
or if you still need brooch for it
worn drift
i mean its just 5 attacks
i wonder why he didnt get aghs on muerta
this thing seems real good
lol
its just a casual point and click 4 sec stun??
jolly crane
its a bit like the earthspirit aghs, ye
worn drift
ye except you can just hit the guy still
seems really busted wtf
cant be dispelled either
jolly crane
ye except you can just hit the guy still
well no
jolly crane
its basically a
disable that makes you deal less damage to the target
its like LC aghs
worn drift
so... you can still hit the guy
worn drift
ok
ye i mean 35% dr doesnt matter much when its 60 mins in and you vaporize ppl in 2 sec
especially when you have alacrity + overcharge
worn drift
tusk kick you
worn drift
pl solo's this game
worn drift
jolly crane
its kinda funny
how in the omega tank meta
heroes like mars and dk are unplayable
and the heroes that used to shred high str heroes like timber and naix
are unplayable too
ancient harbor
3st
ancient harbor
i dont get naix being not meta still
jolly crane
hero sucks
thats the explanation
hero was ruined when they made open wounds his shard
ancient harbor
fair
ancient harbor
cant he trade well during laning?
jolly crane
ye he can
but
doesnt matter
you either
max rage and feast, but then you have no attackspeed
max rage and attackspeed, then you have no damage or sustain
or max attackspead and feast
ancient harbor
ahhh
jolly crane
and then you die in a stun
jolly crane
nah
he has shit dmg
you basically cant get around maxing his attackspeed passive
and then you either max feast after for damage to do what hes supposed to do
but then you have a
20sec cd 3sec magic immunity
even maxed, rage just kinda sucks
17sec cd, 6sec immunity
just isnt enough
ancient harbor
mhmm yeah
jolly crane
i do think you can play the hero tho
but you need to play him
like ck i think
you cant do the old
ancient harbor
wym like CK
jolly crane
desolator/assault cuirass etc.
you just tank up
get a farily early heart
so you just live
jolly crane
dunno if armlet is evne the play
worn drift
battle fury 
jolly crane
meh
its a hero with lots of attackspeed
maelstrom sange heart
i.e. i think naix would be a good muerta counter, unironically
cause naix aghs kinda ruins muerta
but ye, heroes like that jnust got powercrept
muerta powercrept drow, primal powercrept dk, ck powercrept naix
worn drift
think biggest issue is muerta has easy time farming with her passive + maelstrom
meanwhile drow has to farm with a decent long cd that eats her mana
worn drift
he will solo this game
ancient harbor
also anyone can explain the context of the joel meme in twitch chat?
plush pivot
because it's the last map that decides if you are out or not
plush pivot
can always lose even being stronger
worn drift
dunno
plush pivot
doubt and nerves are real
plush pivot
especially in such position when one mistake may mean going home
worn drift
thats not ti winner attitude tho
cant be pussy
spirit breaker such a fucking idiotic hero 
plush pivot
don't tell me vp will lose it
worn drift
Nah
manic ermine
I don't like this stretched out format
The lower bracket games overall have been dragged out and boring
And the exciting teams to watch like spirit liquid or lgd played 1 series this week and now you wait 1 more week to watch the good teams again
Lower bracket also seemed more fun to watch last year because teams had their separate identities
Now there's no balls
stone geode
the games are still on, lmao
manic ermine
Yeah vp is putting up a game
stone geode
playing 2 elim series in the same day seems like a bad idea
thorny fiber
I don't like this stretched out format
Nah this experiment must crash and burn
some league of legends copy
rugged cipher
13-16th place 2y ago was double 2nd place money this year 
manic ermine
Leagues schedules are even more pretentious
rugged cipher
feels so wrong
thorny fiber
It kills the hype
and it probably changes the entire hero pick story
when teams have weeks to prepare for their next opponent
thorny fiber
Same
could have played lower bracket until the weekend
so like starting wednesday or something
and then weekend is finals
humble yew
I mean, they already killed the hype with the even in itself
low production value, no compendium, no marketing, nothing
pure valve fashion
as they say "we developp games, we do not do esports"
- meta is boring af tbh, looks like league of legends games
50 minutes in, 25 - 14 on the scoreboard or something
manic ermine
Meta is fine I think
Problem is atm we are seeing a lot lower bracket runs where teams are afraid to push and the good teams play next week
ancient harbor
they need something for the mid game
early game is fine
late game is sorta alway standard fight around buy backs
but mid game is just afk farm from 25-50 min mark
jolly crane
kill gold/xp is too high and pushing highground is barely worth it these days, way too much risk
so even with a 1 item lead on your carry or mid, you basically cant push hg
and if you do, even with aegis, odds are youll get wiped and suddenly theres a 10k and 3level gold and xp swing
worn drift
The tourny format does suck i agree
These constant week breaks between ub games is trash
stray yew
make highground wider
jolly crane
and put shit closer to the ledge
you gotta go in pretty deep to hit rax
and even if you kill rax
upgraded creeps are kinda w/e
wave clear has gotten so strong
stray yew
they could remove a camp or two aswell
jolly crane
only upside to rax is that the creeps are worth less gold
but because your lane is pushing, you end up with less gold than the enemy team
really no reason to push rax these days unless you can finish the game right then and there
stray yew
you get a lot of gold when you push tower + rax
jolly crane
ehhh
just 1 hero lost
is more gold for teh enemy team
and it takes a while to kill tower+rax, in the same time you could hit the 500 neutral camps
and get more gold in your team
when a team pushes rax early these days, how often does that actually matter?
getting a lane of rax should be big, but its not. used to be, but nowadays its w/e
rugged cipher
i mean kinda always make ur wave pushed in + get half the gold from the creeps?
jolly crane
but even a regular support can just clear a wave of supercreeps with 1 or 2 spells
sure, theyre worth half the gold, but its a lane you basically dont get gold from anymore yourself if you push the rax
so pushing rax = 1/3 lanes you can no longer get gold from, while the enemy still gets half gold from it
super creeps just arent that much stronger
they only have 150hp more
stray yew
ye power creep is through the roof ofc
not that long ago it was very worth to kill yourself to secure megas
jolly crane
ye
stray yew
now you can very easily throw the game by doing that
jolly crane
even just
dying to get a melee rax used to be worth
now you do that, you give ~2k gold to enemy team
and its not like youre limiting the enemy teams ability to farm all that much
map being so much bigger and more camps means having 1 pushed lane doesnt give you enough map control to starve the enemy teams cores
stray yew
the only team ive seen actually close the games when they're meant to was and is GG
they did it in majors and they're doing it now aswell
jolly crane
ye
theyre still one of the best teams at understanding their powerspikes and relative strength to the enemy team
thorny fiber
i mean getting a lane is quite a bit of control, still, right?
but ye not worth dying for
but was it ever
stray yew
when liquid was winning TI it was very worth to throw corpses till you succeed getting rax
jolly crane
and aura meta
stray yew
but i think this might've been last time it was rly worth
thorny fiber
liquid won 6 years ago
jolly crane
i mean getting a lane is quite a bit of control, still, right?
eh, not really all that much
twin gates and the bigger map make it very easy
to push a supercreep lane out
without really risking to get punished
thorny fiber
well having creeps pushed is vision as well as kinda knowing/understanding where the enemy is
jolly crane
like, im not saying its useless
but in the grand scheme of things
the level of advantage is lower than it used to
thorny fiber
for sure
jolly crane
while the risk of failing a highground push is just too high
so many teams dont consider it worth unless they can do it safely
thorny fiber
but i think a valid point about the boring games is that it simply has been bad teams playing eachother
jolly crane
via meteor hammer/ranged poke
jolly crane
but i think a valid point about the boring games is that it simply has been bad ...
definitely
the problem is basically
you have like
jolly crane
15-25 kills during laning stage, and then neither team feels comfortable pushing anything
stray yew
its also the factor of its lower bracket and people will go extra safe
thorny fiber
the top 8 teams actually never played eachother this weekend
jolly crane
people itemize for the first 15min, and then go back to farming
thorny fiber
top 8 teams vs shitters
stray yew
gg played 70 minute game vs EG because it was impossible for them to push
because willow was legit fountain sitting
jolly crane
was basically top8 teams playing each other
stray yew
and it was 50k nw disadvantage game
stray yew
actual useless game
jolly crane
1 half of the lower bracket on one day
and then the other on the next
why not just play
first round
then 2nd day next round
so no team has to play twice
rugged cipher
save on transport cost to arena
jolly crane
i think the main issue at the end of the day
is that comp dota atm doesnt really have many consistent teams
cis is "dominating" and we all know how hit and miss their performance can be
jolly crane
then you have NA dota with 3 teams
2 of which are dog
and nouns is playing pretty well
definitely exceeding expectations
rugged cipher
i think the sudden huge prize money drop kinda made the tourney non hype to begin with
just another tourney
jolly crane
idk its still TI
thorny fiber
winning TI is still the biggest tournament and ends the competitive year and only the best team wins it
jolly crane
quality of games wouldnt be different
if it was 2mil or 20mil
viewer experience wouldnt be different either idk
rugged cipher
kinda hits diff when 2nd place takes home less than 16th place 1-2 y ago
stray yew
too many russians <:Kappa:675691839881216001>
its not false
rugged cipher
maybe just my opinion
jolly crane
think ppl focusing on prize money for viewing enjoyment are kinda weird
ngl
its just an uninteresting meta
stray yew
CIS region is biggest source of talent for csgo and dota 2
jolly crane
many pros say the same
thorny fiber
i worried about the prize pool at first, but i think the players see this is as a prestige win regardless and will play their best
jolly crane
the drafts are very same~ish
TI still the only tournament thats gets you immortalized in the game
stray yew
most of the people complaining about prize pool didnt even buy new compendium
rugged cipher
the huge money puts way more pressure on the players and matters i think
stray yew
i mean n omatter what happened this ti evne if it was 100 mil TI i would say gg is team of the year
(team of the season)
whatever you call it
thorny fiber
i mean in NA sports its always like this
jolly crane
for whom i would consider this "lower prizepool = lower performance" thing to actually become a thing, are the people who already made bank off of gaming. i.e. spirit/tundra. and tundra just had a fluke win to begin with
thorny fiber
you have a league system and then the stanley cup
even if you top the league ur not the winner
unless you win the stanley cup
jolly crane
team like SR or VP or betboom
hasnt won enough, or anything really, to make the argument "its not worth giving our best"
thorny fiber
ye ofc
stray yew
i get this season is fucked when it comes to player salaries becuase of ti low prize pool
but it will just adjust itself
jolly crane
the only teams that can afford to not give a shit about a tourney with a low prizepool, are the teams with players that are already doing very well. and those teams are all in the upper bracket and showing hwo to play good dota
stray yew
coz as far as i know csgo players have way bigger contracts because prizepools from tournaments arent as big
in contrary dota had lower contracts because ti was so massive
thorny fiber
i assume liquid pays well
stray yew
so it will balance itself out
thorny fiber
and EG prob
stray yew
oh ye orgs like sr eg (before SA team probably even more) liquid
ye eg paid more to NA team
100%
than they pay to SA team
jolly crane
2/3rds of the teams here at TI are making 3-5k/month, on top of not paying rent/utilities etc.
thorny fiber
ye
jolly crane
and thats minimum
thorny fiber
but if you listen to the players in the interviews
they are glowing at the prospect of winning it
so idk
jolly crane
100%
thorny fiber
their motivation isnt less
jolly crane
its their big chance to become forever known as a TI winner
the only time the prizepool will matter, and even then its only barely, is for the winner of this TI, who will think "if we won last time, we wouldve made X amount more". but theyll still be happy cuz they won TI
thorny fiber
yup
jolly crane
these players arent doing badly
you can see it when they stream from home
theyre all living very well
rugged cipher
problem is when their careers end and they dont have a big streaming audience or earned enough before 
thorny fiber
just nature doing nature things
if you dont capitalize on being one of the best players in dota 2 in more ways than just playing, thats on you.
theres tons of ways to make money on being an ex-pro of anything and if you dont want that, well then you should have learnt a new skill IRL, playing dota isnt stopping you
jolly crane
problem is when their careers end and they dont have a big streaming audience or...
if theyre bad with money, sure
but most of these pros could easily retire, or live without financial worries for years if not 10+ years
if they manage their money well
not the ones that just popped up a year or two ago, ofc
but someone like crit, zai, fly etc.? 100%
this is just prizepool, no salaries
it doesnt take much of a financial foundation to keep your wealth, its the getting there thats tough
and playing games for a few years while getting paid even just 3k a month, while most of your expenses are being taken care off, is enough to build that kind of wealth
thorny fiber
yep
but then again
these ppl are 18 ish
on avg
prob not the best at keeping money
or doing the Akke, Loda and Bulldog way and put a bunch of money into an org
if i wanted to grow my money i wouldnt create a dota 2 team
rugged cipher
i mean in the grand scheme of things a very few dota ppl will be able to live of it their entire life, just compare it to sports ppl they earn way more in most cases and still end up broke. And most of these esports kids have 0 life experience just spending all their time on the game
thorny fiber
sports (football pros) ppl live an insanely luxurious life
thats why they go broke
cus they keep doing it
dota 2 players/nerds/gamers just need a computer and they're set
very few of them drive around a lambo
rugged cipher
they wont be gaming forever after their careers
jolly crane
prob not the best at keeping money
I would hope that most teams have some kind of financial advisor to help their players with that kind of shit. I know liquid does
thorny fiber
they wont be gaming forever after their careers
no but its easier to get "the fix"
than it is for a pro
in sports
jolly crane
And what push said
Most esports players, even after winning big, live very small lives
They dont suddenly buy a penthouse apartment with their million
And order hookers every other weekend
Just look at Fear. Man wins TI, buys a new desk.
thorny fiber
ye cus deep down they are nerds and at their happiest while gaming anyway
football pros are also expected to live fancy lives, rarely a choice
jolly crane
And if a player spends all their money and doesnt keep an emergency fund or plans out the rest of their lives, doesnt hire an agent or money manager etc.... well thats on them, hoenstly.
If youre a famed esports player, you can still easily get a few ad gigs for example
Personal brand sponsorships
stray yew
people being broke after their career happens in regular sports too
even now
when people are aware etc
soem people are just stupid
jolly crane
ye
its just like the twitch streamrs etc.
some of them have a diverse portfolio of investments
and can easily quit and live life like that
and just cuz your pro career is over, doesnt mean you cant become a coach, or manager in a team, or become a caster or analyst
stray yew
or you can do something completely different nto gaming related
jolly crane
ye
isnt swindle doing
some NBA shit
at espn
or smth like that
the money you earn from being a successful pro (and every pro at TI is successful, even the teams that went out first week), pays for whatever path of education or career you wanna do
cause you have a cushion that lasts a few years
rugged cipher
not this ti though 
jolly crane
wdym
rugged cipher
but i guess most are not first timers
jolly crane
you think players
at PSG Quest
with the biggest french team in the world paying their bills
arent living comfortably?
rugged cipher
they started earning money like 6 months ago top?
won 30k whole team together in total this ti
jolly crane
thats not when their career started
youre so focused on prizepool
who gives a fuck
rugged cipher
no, all in their squad won nothing up until very recently and if their career started even earlier their income over their whole career is even less
jolly crane
big prizepool isnt what allows proplayers to sustain themselves. salaries and benefits are
rugged cipher
they might live comfortably for now
but havent for long and wont do it for long after unless it continues fora while
jolly crane
many of these players are living in countries where my salary, which isnt a lot, would easily pay for a good life
if they make 30k a year, theyre living more than comfortably
and theyre making much more than that
rugged cipher
since 13 days ago perhaps, hope they signed a long deal
jolly crane
they made that just in prizepool money from DPC and shit
even the small teams pay salaries of like 1-2k/month
liquid/eg etc. salaries were usually low 5-figures
rugged cipher
i mean quest is not even an org is it? literally org less until before ti
rugged cipher
ah ok, liquidpedia make it look like they just chose the name themselves and no org info
jolly crane
TI prizepool being low is good, because it means that esports orgs cant do the slimey "well, we pay you shit, just win TI" deal, but actually have to pay decent wages
rugged cipher
also forces players to have longer careers
jolly crane
which isnt a bad thing either
beneficial to both sides
esports bubble burst a while ago, and overall esports is much healthier if players live based off of salaries that come from the teams and their own sponsorship and marketing deals, and not from winning events
the success/value of TI isnt in its prizepool, its in the viewernumbers
rugged cipher
healthier for the scene yes, players will earn way less overall if they are actually good
jolly crane
yeah no
if youre one of the best players in the world
you make 20-30k/month in salary for the big orgs
like
few years back, the csgo VP team revealed how much they made
and they made ~25k USD/month
so youre sitting at ~300k annually, and thats without any kind of prizemoney, sponsorship money, stickers/player card money, stream money, prizepools
while also regularly spending weeks at a time in bootcamps and/or venues where your expenses are being paid
rugged cipher
i dont think dota salariesa re close to cs:go
jolly crane
most certainly are for teams like liquid or EG
or well, they will be. wanna know why they were paid lower?
because of TI
rugged cipher
well trasnfers in dota is like 25-150k usd if u take vilats leaked info from ramzes to eg etc
jolly crane
ye
rugged cipher
meanwhile cs:go pros is transfered for millions
the orgs just launders way more money in cs:go
jolly crane
cause their players are more marketable
but i mean
you can just ignore the statements from players
when qojqva literally says "most dota teams earn less than 20k/month"
meaning theres some that do
anyway
if you have a ~5y professional dota career with 1 or 2 TI attendances, and cant live comfortably for a couple of years from your earnings after that, youre either dogshit with money, dogshit at the game, or dont care enough to actually treat your profession like a professional
rugged cipher
i mean 5y sure, was talking about enough to retire because most of these players wont become coaches/casters etc and skipped school and will literally flip burgers at mcdonalds
jolly crane
thats just.... vast simplification
nothing stopping them from going to school for a few years
with the money they earned
and yeah, its a good thing that winning 1 tournament doesnt allow you to not work for the next 50 years. because thats fucking stupid
stray yew
if you saved some money you can afford to go to school for 3-4 years and get some degrees/certificate
jolly crane
100%
and just winnign any of the major tourneys
you got a few hundred grand on your bank account
that you can invest
its not the pros that struggle financially, that make it to TI every yeart
its the amateur teams that kinda have to sacrifice a lot in the hopes of making it big, but only few of them actually do
33 was still living with his family when we played with him, and that was only ~3y before his TI win. man had to dip out mid-scrim because hamas was firing rockets and he had to hide in his shelter with his family
most of these players can make due with very little money, and come from poor backgrounds, so they tend to not waste the money they earn
stray yew
ye its not people that play at ti/majors we should worry about
its about people that played in div 2 eu or div 2 of other regions
and disappeared after 1 season
coz they were from norway
and couldnt support themselves coz cant degen game for 16h/day for 2 years to make it
jolly crane
ye
its part of the reason why theres more and more up and coming players from the middle east and CIS regions
cause its just a lot easier to sustain yourself
just boosting some accounts here or there
while playing semi-profesisonally
stray yew
also way way way bigger playerbase too
but ye for sure thats other factor
dota is just insanely popular in russia
thorny fiber
and NA is fucked because theres almost no social security
stray yew
there were days when id be queing 5 mans with my friends
and we put only eu east/west but not russia
and we look for game 15 minutes and we add russia
and we insta find game
thorny fiber
if you mute chat and voice while playing on russian servers, its playable
jolly crane
its more playable
because the people actually playing on russian servers arent nearly as terrible
as the people playing on euwest
its like peruvians on NA servers, vs just queueing south america
or dealing with german tourists on vacation, vs germans in their own country. just different when its "their" servers, vs the one where they act like idiots a lot of times
dota just kinda died in the west, but thats alright imo
manic ermine
Euwest is probably the most competitive server tho
jolly crane
thats cuz most pro players and up-and-coming players congregate there
since its in the middle of 3 major regions
and the only region where all of them have decent ping
manic ermine
3 mil prizepool seems alright
jolly crane
ye think like 3-5mil is more than fine
thats still a shitton
and bigger than almost every other esports tourney
manic ermine
Feel like those record prizepools were never really good advertising tools
It was more for the dota community to pat itself on the back but no one outside truly cared about the size I feel
jolly crane
i mean it got a lot of people interested for a short amoutn of time imo
but everybody knew it wasnt sustainable i think
thorny fiber
It was more for the dota community to pat itself on the back but no one outside ...
I know ppl that watched TI solely for the absurd money
At least the Grand final
last scaffold
Remove willow 
worn drift
fuck tundra
worn drift
fuck talon too