DotA

[jolly crane]

grab ally is just a better shallow grave

[silver geyser]

pos 1 and pos 5 suffer the most from lack of hero diversity

[stone geode]

I forgot dazzle existed

[silver geyser]

because their pool of heroes is already so small

you just end up playing the same 3 heroes everygame

[jolly crane]

pos1 has plenty of choice imo

pos 4/5 are super limited

[silver geyser]

right now its pretty good yeah

[jolly crane]

no reason to ever play most of the heroes cuz thers just better versions of it

[silver geyser]

worst patch i can remember for pos 1 was that patch where it was just sven FV mk everygame

with like the occasional tb

7.26 or something like that

how did pandas throw this

i havent been paying attention

[worn drift]

they are starting to lack dmg

[stone geode]

storm actually mvp with vortex

[silver geyser]

im a big fan of the pure nightfall change

[worn drift]

ah im behind by a lot

nix watching delayed stream

[stone geode]

bb was never really out of the game

[silver geyser]

always hated nightfall on pos 3 with eg

he was a better carry than rtz

[worn drift]

but ye 9pandas draft was good until late

[jolly crane]

9pandas needed to win early

[worn drift]

and they just lack dmg after that

cause NS isn't a good hero for doing dmg late lol

[jolly crane]

youre not winning fighting into dk/monkey lategame

unless you have absurd burst

[silver geyser]

wasnt ns the pos 4 tho

[worn drift]

no

doom was

[silver geyser]

oh

wtf

okay yeah

they fumbled that draft a bit

went for pickoff plays for to long

[worn drift]

how their late game goes is if one of the 2 damage dealing cores dies in opener of the fight they lose the fight

timber gets caught top

they lose fight turbo hard

[silver geyser]

was that game 1?

[worn drift]

cause wr dmg outside of ult is kinda trash

[silver geyser]

classiic wr game

[worn drift]

9pandas played mid game too passively

[stray yew]

they had nullifiers too and oracle so wr couldnt take other lvl 25 talent

lvl 30 on wr wouldve been quite big

coz he needed to take undispellable windrun

[worn drift]

ye

you need rapid fire reset this game and the wr talent

kiyotaka on 52nd min doing some interesting gameplay

[stone geode]

I feel like timber had 0 impact

almost forgot he was in the game

[worn drift]

ye

[stray yew]

ye his anime music was too loud i bet

but he got away with those a lot

[worn drift]

ye thats just his playstyle

[stray yew]

man loves playing aggresive/on the edge

bb shouldnt ever lose to 9p tbh

[worn drift]

curious if his team tilts the fuck out when he does stuff like that and it goes bad

just feast or famine

[stray yew]

they're way too skilled over in BB

[worn drift]

ye

their skill on micro level is very high

[rugged cipher]

only secret > bb

[jolly crane]

its like nisha, you give him free reign cuz you know it pays off many times and its one of the reasons yorue in upper bracket to begin with

[worn drift]

ye

[stone geode]

too many 3 game series, its getting late

[worn drift]

https://clips.twitch.tv/BraveUnsightlyChimpanzee4Head-7FDCJO_UXI7shR4h

lmfao

wait

what the fuck did the caster just say

double square root b boo team?

[jolly crane]

ye khezu and sunsfan kinda having themselves some fun

with having to call betboom bbteam or 2bteam

[worn drift]

thats funny lmao

[silver geyser]

meepo

i havent seen a meepo game in a while

[rugged cipher]

been in like every second game ive seen

[silver geyser]

i havent been watching a lot of dota or even playing it very much in the last few months

HOLT

[worn drift]

alright

gg go next

[silver geyser]

i cant wait to see the mega meepo

i havent seen it in a game yet

[rugged cipher]

alche doom and meepo

what is this greedy lineup

[silver geyser]

prize pool is 15 mil

they just manifesting

can all the meepos cast their spells in the aghs?

[worn drift]

uh dont think so

[jolly crane]

nah

[worn drift]

if you press net they all throw afaik

[jolly crane]

its just main meepo

[silver geyser]

ah thats what it is

[jolly crane]

and you can throw individual meepos back

[worn drift]

but there is an interesting interaction

since the big meepo gets lot of stats

if you throw 1 meepo

that meepo is still benefitting from the additional stats on the big meepo

pretty cool

holy

that sleep and rubick stolen mines combo

on min 15

[silver geyser]

yeah okay ive already seen enough meepo

[jolly crane]

alch kill just casual 2.5k gold

sick rubick performance

[worn drift]

surprised 9pandas didnt lose to tilt

especially when i saw meepo get solo killed first blood

thought it was over

but ye rubick solo'd

et had some good sleeps too

damn that was actually nice play at 29 mins

meepo busted for sure lmao

[jolly crane]

meepo is really good if you dont have high single target damage, and aghs counters that a lot

people always think you need good aoe against meepo but all you need is consistent single target. while the aghs helps a lot in staying a live, its almost entirely used defensively. a mega meepo isnt threatening you, hes just trying to survive

think overall they had a good draft vs meepo still

the sf lastpick was good, but the alch just closed out the game too fast

so they never got the damage going like they needed to

[worn drift]

ik phoenix absolute dunks on megameepo

there was 1 game i watched where it was phoenix vs meepo

and he would go mega and phoenix would sun beam his ass to death

[jolly crane]

mhye

vessel is good as well

[worn drift]

pure fucking feeling it

bro is swaying back and forth from adrenaline

[jolly crane]

man has to start thinking about ways to get himself or his team DQed

[worn drift]

LOL

[jolly crane]

the kotl/axe combo is kinda nasty

cooldown reduction on call

why does he still have centaur stomp

when the storm has a linkens

[stray yew]

this looks very over

[jolly crane]

ye

youd basically need to doom the gyro and ignore him in the teamfight

and somehow clean up the rest of the team

[stray yew]

impossible i think

[jolly crane]

before hes by himself

[stray yew]

axe plays way too well

[jolly crane]

but even doomed hes gonna get a lot of stuff done

[stray yew]

axe/storm played too well

in midgame

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

and well they have noone to save from axe

cores that wont build status res either

coz thats historical 'counter' to axe call

ye gyro too big

[jolly crane]

ye

good play overall

good draft as well

not the typical shit

love to see it

witch doctor not doing a lot in these fights sadly

pos4 doom as well pretty useless

[stray yew]

wd did well in lane

but pure did comeback well

he still was rich

i guess save stacked for him?

not sure

[jolly crane]

thats the problem with WD tho

he does well in lane, but once the laning stage ends, which is very early nowadays, what does he do?

compare that to sky or ench

[stray yew]

pure interview

mr alttab

[jolly crane]

who are a constant menace in the midgame

and have lategame scaling potential

thats kinda the issue with heroes like dazzle or wd or treant, they do well in lane but then they dont really have ways to roam and create pressure while your core is farming or while your mid/pos3 catch up if they had a bad lane

[stray yew]

dazzle i think could be picked

with how much farm there is on the map

maybe he could work

[stray yew]

@jolly craneare we playing tommorow

[jolly crane]

no idea

are we?

[stray yew]

[stone geode]

poor display by lgd

[stray yew]

[rugged cipher]

Was in ramzes stare at kiyotaka after BB loss

it was

[stray yew]

ye

he plays high risk high reward

and got caught eventually because of reckless plays

but tbh they lost because of that one top fight where solo failed to global

or maybe he was 1s short cd on global

but there was case where he couldve killed dk for free basically but solo didnt global for him, was somewhat early into the game

[rugged cipher]

what gorp said is so true, imagine gg going out now

have won everything whole season

then some random team comes like 5th in this tourney and earn more than they have whole season

[stray yew]

dota 2 in a nutshell

[humble yew]

[stray yew]

that underlord isnt doing anything

[stone geode]

GG

[stray yew]

it looks mega unthrowable

[stone geode]

tundra looking solid this game

[rugged cipher]

timber do to much dmg

[stray yew]

its not rly damage but they locked him down

he will queue aeon probably

but its insanely good nullifier game becuase vs ursa

[stone geode]

underlord built it, interesting

[stray yew]

ye its insanely good item

vs ursa

it is the ursa counter

[stone geode]

ye, casters mentioned

does it break fury swipes?

[stray yew]

nah it dispels overpower

so your as is non existant

[stone geode]

just buy moonshard

[rugged cipher]

wtf is universal heroes? they are not stat dependant and can buy w/e or?

[stray yew]

i think gaimin needs to kill pango to have fight

they just dont have mainstat

so all stats is rly op on them

[rugged cipher]

ench solo tormentor in 1s

[stray yew]

and they gain 0.7 dmg per 1 attribute

[humble yew]

https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Universal#Universal_Heroes

[stray yew]

dd morph

@rugged cipher it is also a bit like morph except for all stats

coz you can shift as morph ofc

[humble yew]

morphling

[stray yew]

id say morph dd is imbalanced

but

universal heroes exist

also tundra has 2 dispels

so on them

[rugged cipher]

do dd snapshot on morph

[stray yew]

snapshot? nah

dont think so

[rugged cipher]

so changes dynamically with morph?

[stray yew]

probably dynamic

[stone geode]

🐸

[stray yew]

empower is dynamic i think last time i checked

so dd probably no

because consistency = not in dota 2

i dont understand dota but why didnt tundra afk that highground

they had mega position

[rugged cipher]

game is thrown

[stone geode]

oh no no

💧 > 🐻

[stray yew]

i dont understand dota

[stone geode]

if tundra cant burst 1 hero quickly its just over

[humble yew]

morphling

[jolly crane]

nerf morph

[humble yew]

this hero

[jolly crane]

if anybody wants to know why i despise this hero

just gotta watch that fight

[humble yew]

finally

had to be between t4 and fountain

with 4 heroes on his ass

[jolly crane]

ye

disgusting hero

[rugged cipher]

why is quin still there

[stray yew]

ye and then you play vs drow

and you get 1 shoot

[jolly crane]

or you ban drow

and dont get 1shot

[stray yew]

idk nine is a clown

he needs to build to live fights longer than morphs bkb

and have basher

its impossible to play vs pango as morph without bkb

he gets one singular disarm

and cant play the game

he bought maelstrom

when they have damage on like every core possible

even enchantress has infinite damage

[jolly crane]

not really

cuz enchantress just dies in 0.5sec

to this morphling hero

[rugged cipher]

ench got aghs never dying again

[jolly crane]

oh look

dead in

half a second

playing support vs morph is

most miserable experience in dota

[humble yew]

yes

we know the struggle

same with tinker tbh

but ye

[rugged cipher]

timber double morphs dam though

[stray yew]

tinker is unironically ok now

you need nulli into him

[jolly crane]

ye but tinker doesnt solo you until he has like 20k networth

[stray yew]

and its ok

[jolly crane]

no matter what stage of the game you meet morph as a support

the hero just kills you

or forces you back

[stray yew]

i mean dyrachyo is playing some most insane dota of his life

he is 1v9ing

the only wins in playoffs gg got

[jolly crane]

sure

[stray yew]

is when he went mega god rtz 2013 mode

[jolly crane]

doesnt change the fact that morph is a stupid hero to play into as a support

[stray yew]

that sounds like every support this patch into any carry that is willing to build nulli

[jolly crane]

i mean it starts a minute 0 tho

harrassing morph in lane feels like

[stray yew]

then its cope pick sky

[jolly crane]

sisyphus rolling the boulder up the hill

[stray yew]

and kill him

coz you have infinite magic dmg

and long silence

[jolly crane]

but ye, nine not buying basher is like

why

[stray yew]

ye nine clowned this game

if he built sth like

halberd + basher

he lives longer than 2s in a fight

and stuns morph even in his bkb and gets some disarms here or there

also how is it allowed that this morph just RUNS INTO blindly in silver edge

[jolly crane]

call me crazy but i liked dota more when using bkb dispelled runes

[stray yew]

and just goes in and kills a support

this is illegal

[jolly crane]

sure but its an enchantress

which other hero

would be able to do that?

[stray yew]

run on top of someone and insta kill it?

as carry?

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

very many carry heroes can do it

[jolly crane]

an ench

with 2k hp

[stray yew]

at that point of the game

[jolly crane]

but yeah, dyrachyo is banging lately

more than usual

[stray yew]

it was like classic 1v9 cs game

[jolly crane]

kinda bad play from tundra

playing into silver edge+potm

[stray yew]

where some god tier player pops off in decent team

[jolly crane]

and struggling with vision

[stray yew]

and he gives his teammates more time to finally start playing normally

like that mid fight where he got double forced + eblade

he'd be dead without that

[jolly crane]

still

i know you like the hero sebbe but

[stray yew]

but they were in that position only because 20 minutes before he played perfectly

[jolly crane]

fuck morph

[stray yew]

i cant believe they won it

that underlord was so useless

for idk 1st 30 minutes

bought nulli and started doing sth

[manic ermine]

Tundra mega threw that game

[stray yew]

i swear nine threw with item build

also its forbidden to have enemy pos 1 run in with shadowblade

and you have no idea

[jolly crane]

i think in general, one of the reasons why GG wins more than other teams, is cuz their itemization is just very good

not many teams would have their underlord of all heroes pick up a nullifier this early

[stray yew]

they also never give up

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

and games like that prove them in that

that they shouldnt ever give up

[jolly crane]

they play aggressively if theyre behind

if they just had a powerspike

[stray yew]

coz sometimes its dyrachyo popping off

sometimes ace

sometimes quinn

its not just 1 guy that always gets them out of the hole

besides this tournament

its dyrachyo twice

[jolly crane]

they dont care if they fight into aegis or 10k networth disadvantage, if they just had theri own item pickups/level gains

imo more teams needs to do that

[agile onyx]

I fell asleep during the game 1 draft, what happened in LGD vs Quest?

[stray yew]

quest kinda stomped them

[jolly crane]

enemy team just got rosh? go fight if they used cooldowns for it or you used the time to get items

[stray yew]

both games

wasnt rly close

[agile onyx]

Wtf

[stray yew]

it was comfy 2-0

wasnt very close imo

quest had advantage all the time and never gave it away

[agile onyx]

[stray yew]

whats the situation

[stone geode]

tundra winning

probably going to throw later

[stray yew]

its drow yea

that hero always can come back i can get behind that

[agile onyx]

No way tundra can throw this one right?

[stray yew]

ye this looks even worse somehow

but who knows

im not counting gg ever out i think

[stone geode]

they can rat megas ez

tundra that is

[humble yew]

this chrono

[agile onyx]

That

Makes me wanna reinstall and play some void

[stone geode]

when did they remove number of attacks from visage birds

that was cancer

[agile onyx]

That was years ago

I think

[jolly crane]

long time ago ye

i just love watching GG lose against a draft thats a bit more unconventional

cuz GG always plays the same

[stone geode]

pango

[silver geyser]

quinn pango

its over

free win

[stray yew]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-shocked-monkey-disappointed-disappointed-monkey-gif-25631537

[thorny fiber]

i really hope GG crashes out

the most boring team in pro dota

[stray yew]

in fight between gg and tundra you consider gg boring?

thats hot take

everyone hates tundra for being boring

[silver geyser]

gg is boring because they win all the time

playing the same heroes

but other teams arent boring cause the play the same heroes and sometimes lose

[stray yew]

i think my soft spot for that is people playing same heroes that require 0 skill to play like pick zeus mid over and over

or enigma offlane

[humble yew]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-shocked-monkey-disappointed-disappointed-monkey-gif-25631537

[stray yew]

and you dont even have to lane with these heroes

they're just so braindamaged you can do same thing every game and auto win/auto draw every lane at least

[jolly crane]

GG teamfight and gfameplay is great but like

i look at the draft

and i think

"oh ive seen this game before. 20 times"

no matter what they draft

[stray yew]

i think its a thing of the patch in general

[jolly crane]

oh its a dusa/pango/darksee core setup

[stray yew]

there is fewer picks viable than ever

[jolly crane]

sure but

every other team

plays at least

SOME other stuff

GG doesnt

whens the last time GG experimented with their draft? not like they need to, if they keep winning

[stray yew]

thats not true they have 5 completely new heroes

[jolly crane]

but thats not how you keep winning

[stray yew]

that they havent had this series

[jolly crane]

like what?

[stray yew]

not a single one of them

[jolly crane]

okay but

theyve played all these heroes

50 times before

[stray yew]

yesterday they had pango/snap probably

darkseer is contested

snap is very contested

disruptor is kinda some teams like it i think

[jolly crane]

like you cant tell me that GG has a diverse drafting pool

[stray yew]

medusa isnt very popular this tournament

no but noone rly does

[jolly crane]

idk

[stray yew]

besides bad teams

[jolly crane]

im seeing

qop and AA

dont see that every day, do we?

[stray yew]

qop happens from time to time

[jolly crane]

ye

from time to time

[stray yew]

aa is new ye

its like disruptor and dusa now

[agile onyx]

AA is here cause AUI is stuck in 2015

[jolly crane]

we go into other games

[stray yew]

they happen from time to time

[jolly crane]

we see meepo

[stray yew]

ace did play meepo too

this tournament

[jolly crane]

yeah but not until after its been shown 10 times

to be really good

GG just doesnt drop a new hero in their draft and it wins them a game

and again

ium not knocking it

theyve won multiple majors

they have 0 reason to change things up

[stray yew]

ye agreed

[jolly crane]

but its boring as fuck to watch

im not arguing the viability of it, but the entertainment factor

[stray yew]

then i guess ammar is most boring player in your eyes

or what

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

coz guy plays actually 4 heroes

[jolly crane]

bulldog was too

it was a pleasure to watch that man

[stray yew]

ye sure bulldog too

[jolly crane]

cuz it was such high skill display on those select few heroes

[agile onyx]

I'd agree if darkseer/pango weren't fun to watch at least

[stray yew]

but its unfair to compare him to ammar

because it was so long time ago

people were so much worse

ammar pulling off a 4 hero pool is more impressive now than 10 years ago

imo

[jolly crane]

well yeah

again, im not arguing skill display

AT ALL

im strictly talking entertainment factor

and GG has none

outside of watching highskill dota

[rugged cipher]

nine blink

[stray yew]

i think i just dont look at it that way whatsoever

[jolly crane]

ye i do

[stray yew]

i get it they play limited hero pool

[jolly crane]

i always like teams

that play off meta

[stray yew]

and it had to happen eventually

[jolly crane]

or bring new heroes into their drafts, even if they lose

its why i think GG will flake out hard at TI

cuz new patch

and they just happened to have thier best heroes

be meta

quinn in particular

[stray yew]

mid meta is stale for 10 patches

[jolly crane]

man plays 5 heroes

[stray yew]

its always spirits/puck

qop

[jolly crane]

ye but his puck is awful

his storm is mediocre

he cant play TA

so its

[stray yew]

he can play ta for sure

[jolly crane]

not as well as

10 other mids

[thorny fiber]

they are both boring, but GG has won enough

[jolly crane]

obviously he plays a decent TA

[stray yew]

i bet he is lvl 30 ta

coz thats hero he played quite a bit in old optic team

when he was breaking into scene

[jolly crane]

but does he play TA as well as

more than half the other mid players this tourney?

[stray yew]

idk coz they almost never pick it

[rugged cipher]

isnt it mostly played pos1 nowdays

[jolly crane]

[stray yew]

its both

if eg plays it its always pos 1

[jolly crane]

quinn plays storm/timber/pango

what else does he play this tourney?

[stray yew]

ember for sure

[jolly crane]

ember

and then i struggle

[stray yew]

maybe huskar if they ever picekd it

[jolly crane]

to think of heroes

ive seen quinn pick

in 30 games

which is kinda my point

dyrachyo can play everything, the supports play kinda the same shit every game too

ace plays everything

not a problem if you keep winning, but eventually their playstyle will be figured out and theyll flake out

or their heroes just wont be good

[thorny fiber]

ace has been shut down in like 4/5 last games

smol impact

[stray yew]

coz thats how you beat gg

[thorny fiber]

yes

but it didnt happen

[stray yew]

he was silent killer for past 2 tournaments they won

[agile onyx]

Do you think brood builds a diffusal this game?

[stray yew]

why can this hero

leave cage

with charge

xdd

[jolly crane]

cant cage the cow

[stray yew]

i think seleri played even less heroes than quinn

past 2 tournaments

i think man only played like

rubick/ench/undying

now disruptor

and over

maybe odd chen game

[jolly crane]

ye

tofu same

[stray yew]

maybe snap

[jolly crane]

man plays techies

as much as he can

now lion

cuz techies banned

[stray yew]

i mean techies is just op

and contested

same with snap

very contested hero

undying very contested too

some teams contest ench a lot too

[jolly crane]

ye

i think they used to get the heroes they wanted

cuz people kept banning op carries or mid heroes

[agile onyx]

I feel like a lot of 5s have hero puddles

[jolly crane]

now that supports are getting banned more

[stray yew]

ye last tournament people figured out ench is just insane

[jolly crane]

GG is losing more

[stray yew]

wisp gets banned vs gg like every game

or 1st picked

[agile onyx]

They have 2 or 3 they like that secures the lane and then they never pick anything else

Cause people aren't going to ban 3 pos 5s

[jolly crane]

well the problem is that with the current pos3/4 meta

theres not many pos5s you can play

[stray yew]

thee problem is undying is too stupid

[jolly crane]

most int-base heroes are just gonna feed

[stray yew]

and you must ban it or 1st pick it

that hero is nobrainer

even does rosh well

[jolly crane]

youre not gonna play a cm or witchdoctor or willow

[stray yew]

has save

[jolly crane]

into current offlane meta

cuz you just feed

[stray yew]

very stupid hero

[jolly crane]

blood grenade kinda

[stray yew]

that hero needs major fixing

[jolly crane]

ruined a lot of slow supprots

just remove grab ally

idk why he has that skill

[stray yew]

ye interactions with that shard

are very buggy too

like LC

just stands afk

[jolly crane]

when you have to play stupid shit like

[stray yew]

if you tomb the dueled target

[agile onyx]

It's the same every patch. Either 5s are weak so you only have a few choices to not feed, or meta 1s are weak so you can only pick a few supports that stop ur carry from feeding

[jolly crane]

idk

wheres my phoenixes

or dazzles

or treant

but hey

quinn is nowhere to be seen

in this game

now they got linkens

GG will smoke

and win a teamfight

4-1

or smth like that

[stray yew]

that medusa will be perma stunned

by pos 5 cow

unable to play video game

calling it now

if he wasnt a clown he would build halberd too

actual impossible combo to see tundra not build a single halberd into medusa

[agile onyx]

I feel like Dusa gets chain stunned and then gets out of it at half mana, pops wand and murders all of tundra

[jolly crane]

think they kinda dont care

dusa isnt gonna be able to hit people a lot

[stray yew]

dusa will get mega kited ye

lasso'd into weird spot

[agile onyx]

Oh I was wrong

[jolly crane]

ngl

the AA pick is so good

against GG

glad people are finally picking it more

[stray yew]

nah when morph is meta its better to never pick drow or aa

just complain hero is op ofc

[jolly crane]

well

[stray yew]

[jolly crane]

those 2 things

arent mutually exclusive

you know

[stray yew]

idk why they build 2 linkens

[jolly crane]

the pango one i get

[stray yew]

they are useless if you dont splitpush

[jolly crane]

the other one i do not

pango needs it

[stray yew]

its only for when you wanna splitpush/play alone

[jolly crane]

to not get netherstriked

during roll

[stray yew]

gg is gonna lose anyway

idk why darkseer has linken

if he had lotus the dusa probably lives there

[agile onyx]

Bat has a brain and built a halberd

[jolly crane]

probably to drop it on the dusa

to push

[stray yew]

ye then they failed

if you can count on sth

[jolly crane]

the GG smokes just arent getting anything

[stray yew]

its you can count on 33 building correct items

[jolly crane]

GG just lacks some form of initiation

snap buys linkens too

whats going on

[stone geode]

refresher on brood?

[agile onyx]

I don't hate it

[jolly crane]

double bkb/hunger/harpoon

[agile onyx]

Yeah double hunger is kinda buff

[jolly crane]

ye they just

ignore the dusa

clean up her team

bola+aa slow/cold feet

[stray yew]

well there is 2 ways to play vs dusa

[agile onyx]

Dusa suffering from "all my friends are dead" syndrome

[stray yew]

either all in and kill her 1st

[stone geode]

tundra is back

[stray yew]

or ignore kite kill her team

[jolly crane]

thats why the aa is so good

[stray yew]

they did both this game

naa aa doesnt do shit into dusa honestly

[jolly crane]

wdym

he got 2 cold feets off

perma slow from vortex

dusa cant move

[stray yew]

its up to darkseer and pango to make space for dusa in fight

[agile onyx]

Yeah either Dusa gets lasso'd and blown up, or Halberd'd and ignored

[stray yew]

but they just arent doing it

[silver geyser]

ice blast does nothing but the other spells actually matter

[jolly crane]

the aa pick is really good in both games

you dont pick aa for the iceblast in a game like this

you play it for the vision from vortexes

and the singletarget control

tundar has always played like this

with heroes like brood/bm as well

they always have vision advantage

[silver geyser]

interesting to see skitter on brood

[stray yew]

he played it last tourney aswell

[agile onyx]

Oh I was right, Skitter did buy a late diffu

[jolly crane]

GG just lacks some disable

[stray yew]

they need dusa rapier

maybe they can hold then

but wont happen i think

[jolly crane]

think you go hex on dusa here

[agile onyx]

They need dusa 25

[stray yew]

space cow

[agile onyx]

Wtf

[stray yew]

that hero farms absurdly fast

[agile onyx]

Putting the space in space cow

[jolly crane]

at some point you start oneshotting creepwaves

and you cant really be killed

[stray yew]

at some point you mean

like lvl 9 or 10

and phase boots wind lace

[jolly crane]

ye

[agile onyx]

Oh man I thought that build was a meme that singsing does for his youtube vids

[stray yew]

[agile onyx]

Oh no

[stray yew]

that was insane vac wall

[rugged cipher]

nice dive

[agile onyx]

Tundra's worst enemies

Buybacks

Oh man the rapier is here

[stray yew]

i mean smart

[jolly crane]

dont think itll matter much

[agile onyx]

Rapier, daedalus 25

[jolly crane]

3 buybacks down

[stray yew]

but

impossible combo anyway

he gets lasso'd and halberd

and dead

[stone geode]

bkb first

poosy

[agile onyx]

What are they even bkbing?

[stray yew]

he prebkbs for halbers

[agile onyx]

AA vortex?

[stray yew]

honestly

i think

[agile onyx]

Oh I thought Halberd went through bkb

[stray yew]

nah

but you cant dispel it either

if you halberd and then use bkb you are still disarmed

[agile onyx]

I C

Wtf

[stray yew]

jesus

wtf is this

[stone geode]

rapira

[agile onyx]

They did it

The Dusa 2 shot the bug

[jolly crane]

think that was the first successful smoke from GG all game

[stone geode]

[stray yew]

seleri

do they just throne

wtf

im confused

[jolly crane]

the qop cast range

4man iceblast

[manic ermine]

They did pick mid razor once

[jolly crane]

gonna take an educated guess and say they lost that game

love how the splitpushing breaker

[manic ermine]

Tundra better not throw this

[jolly crane]

is highest networth

i think overall the lv25s on tundra are way stronger

this aghs+shard on dusa gonna be not fun

for the qop

gonna stun herself

[stray yew]

ye space cow

fuck that hero

[manic ermine]

Isnt qop aghs not targeted?

[stray yew]

almost 100% uptime on 100% status res spell ofc

peak stupidity from icefrog

[manic ermine]

Like you can poke dusa from aoe instead of targeting

[jolly crane]

sure but shes casting dagger on the dusa

then she gets snake in return

darkseer blinks on you with vac+hex

and youre dead

lasso illusion, get dusa despite 3 linkens

but ye the sb is taking all the farm

and xp

dunno how good that is for tundra

[stray yew]

i dont even think its items issue

they cant 5v5

that sb is keeping them in this game at this point

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

coz its impossible to push ofc when space cow is impossible to catcvh

[jolly crane]

annoying fuck

[stray yew]

dumb hero

[jolly crane]

hes ognna buy his brood a moonshard at some point

[stray yew]

ye

[agile onyx]

Can't believe SB is the new furion

[stray yew]

refresher

idk who is taking that refresher shard eve

dark seer i guess

or pango maybe

[jolly crane]

raptorjesus

imo

[stray yew]

pango has it

[jolly crane]

dunno if i agree with that

[stray yew]

he has aeon disk too on quinn

so its free refresh for that too

[jolly crane]

well, dusa kinda stopped scaling at this point

otuside of lv30 talent

[stray yew]

quin rly needs to buy basher

abyssal even

[agile onyx]

Yeah Dusa can eat a moonshard and that's it

How the hell

Is SB the new rat hero wtf

You were supposed to charge the rats!

Not join them!

[stray yew]

i see sb and brood dying i smile

[stone geode]

they cant fight rapira

[stray yew]

how is

gg winning

are they winning

idk

[jolly crane]

qop kinda

useless

[stray yew]

they are

[jolly crane]

no hex

[stray yew]

well qop is just win lane lose game hero

[jolly crane]

like, nine spent the entire fight

trying to kill the supports

[manic ermine]

Tundra throwing 2 games

Unbelievable

[jolly crane]

ye

that bottom t4 dive was

something special

[agile onyx]

I can't believe Tundra threw 1 fight

[jolly crane]

but GG is looking weak

[agile onyx]

And gave Dusa enough gold to buy bkb rapier

[jolly crane]

very beatable team

if they keep playing/drafting like this

[agile onyx]

Cause she got 5k gold for killing all of them

[manic ermine]

Dyrachyo stepping up and hard carrying those games tho

They shut down ace but dyrachyo did his job

[stray yew]

well that game was just unfair in general

liquid gg into gg tundra

thats arguably 3 top teams of the tournament

beating each other

very sad

but ye shouldve played grp better ofc

to avoid that

[stone geode]

tundra looked bad in all the games ive seen up to today

[stray yew]

rtz cosplay

[jolly crane]

I do love me some sunsfan cast

Nice blend of humor and knowledge

[thorny fiber]

Easily the best regular caster for me

Non-expert

[stone geode]

rare instance of a 3k caster being good

[silver geyser]

whos he casting with?

i like the dynamic

[jolly crane]

Khezu

[thorny fiber]

German

[silver geyser]

thats khezu>

cool

[thorny fiber]

I mean sunsfan can even make synderen seem funny

[jolly crane]

Sunsfan sucks at playing but he's got good game knowledge

[silver geyser]

cool when pros/former pros are good casters

the knowledge the bring is so interesting

[jolly crane]

Ye you could put him with anybody and it would be a good cast

[stone geode]

ez megas?

[jolly crane]

Whendidegthrowlast.com

[stone geode]

xdd

[jolly crane]

Dunno which one they currently have there

But this one deserves to be on it

[agile onyx]

is dota a real game?

like theres no way we have 15 mil in a nonValve tourney

and we're going to have like 50+ mil TI in a month

[rugged cipher]

ti prize pool will be lower than ever

[stone geode]

ti will barely be double digit mil prize pool I imagine

[rugged cipher]

and 15 mill is nothing for the saudis in their sportwashing campaign

just look what they offered mbappe

[agile onyx]

huh

i just looked it up

i thought last TI was like 50 mil but it was lower than 2021

oops

[stone geode]

last TI was 18

[agile onyx]

guess dota died

[stone geode]

and no compendium so far, going to be some cringe shit nobody is going to buy just to support TI prize pool

when valve steals most of it

[agile onyx]

rip

[stone geode]

so 10m is a generous estimate atm

[stray yew]

100% will be lower

[agile onyx]

im going to need Aster to win quick, ive got vtubers to watch

nice, aster finally won a bo3

[rugged cipher]

oh no why is the cringe guy suddenly there

[rugged cipher]

gorp+singsing+yapzor cast

ppy rhasta

literally just die to wolves running at him and sky slow

[worn drift]

Crystalis is a bot

[manic ermine]

9p plays aggressively very nice

[stone geode]

secrekt

[stray yew]

is antares mentally damaged or what

all chatting when they get megas against actual t3 team

in some lower bracket game of last chance

or is there some hidden beef that im unaware of

[worn drift]

Idk

Probably some pub beef

But crystalis is a bot

Gifted 2nd place at ti and still the same tier of bot he was

[thorny fiber]

you have to ask?

[stray yew]

i mean im all for bming tbh

but when they beat actual bad team

and he did it only when they got megas and game was secured

cmon bro

you can do better than that

[worn drift]

Crystalis deserves all the bm in the world

How has he not developed as a player in past year at all

Same monkey king hero pool

Puppey keeps you around for who knows what reason and you still just remain the same noob

Nisha resolution and zayac gifted the guy a 2nd place ti finish

[manic ermine]

Blaming him is lazy

Their entire team was not on the same page with initiations

If you wanna point fingers then the secret offlaner contributed the most to consistently losing lane to ramzes and later on in the game never initiating fights properly

[worn drift]

dont think its lazy to blame someone who hasn't developed at all as a player despite constant criticism

same shallow hero pool

same low skill

[manic ermine]

Sounds like you didn't watch his games this year

Because he's been consistently improving

I wouldn't put him in the top carries

But he's not the reason secret are losing

Secret just in general are having bad drafts and been struggling to find an offlaner

[worn drift]

playing in div 2 gonna make you look good for sure

[manic ermine]

And imo offlaner has been by far the most impactful position this year

They played div 1 in season 3 and crystallis looked much better compared to season 1

You're just stubborn

[stray yew]

i havent watched any div 2 game im gonna be honest

barely time to even watch div 1 games

only watching actually giga high profile hgames like tundra/gg in div 1 eu

he does look decent on bs/razor honestly

but yea his mk is rly top tier

it always gets 1st phase banned tho

[worn drift]

i wonder if thats why puppey keeps him around

just for 1 free ban

[stray yew]

we'll never rly know what happens in the game/in prac

whenever i check out his pub games

he loses and feeds tho

and yet he is always single digit rank

he's puppey's son

confirmed

[stray yew]

you say that and nigma exists

puppey should kick his offlaner and take ammar

that should work on paper

[manic ermine]

Offlane is the biggest issue for them

[worn drift]

doubt it would work out

I think puppey likes to tell people what to play

[stray yew]

well we'd have answer

[worn drift]

and ammar likes to play what he wants

[stray yew]

instantly

[manic ermine]

Look at bans vs secret and you can see how many teams straight up ignore offlane hero bans

[stray yew]

coz if secret fails thene you can assume its secret fault

[worn drift]

also dont puppey and ammar have big beef

[stray yew]

i bet ammar tipped/flamed every played from top 1k rank

in eu

[manic ermine]

Other teams feel 0 threat from secrets offlaners this year

[stray yew]

buit yea if ammar fails in secret

[worn drift]

i dont think teams feel threat from any lane in secret

[stray yew]

then we could safely say its secret fault/puppey fault/something secret related

[manic ermine]

I think ammar would be fine

[worn drift]

[manic ermine]

Armel has been doing pretty well

[stray yew]

coz its simple logic in my eyes

ammar failed in nigma

[worn drift]

oh ye i forgot armel is there now

[stray yew]

but succedded in og and quest after nigma shenanigans

[manic ermine]

Pos 1 ammar

[stray yew]

so it has to be nigma

at this point

since he succeded in other places

[manic ermine]

Yo let's pick mars pos 1

[stray yew]

ye pos 1 ammar was failure

just let him play offlaners way he wants

[manic ermine]

I mean mind control as a standin for og looked really good

[stray yew]

looks like its worth

[manic ermine]

During Berlin major

Then he went back to nigma

[stray yew]

damn talon looking way better

[manic ermine]

And it's despair again

[stray yew]

than i anticipated

thought they'd get KINDA stomped/handled by liquid

[manic ermine]

I hope talon wins

Both gg and liquid get eliminated

[stray yew]

talon games fun to watch

coz they always