DotA

[stray yew]

[manic ermine]

I think this is set

[stone geode]

liquid pushed out lanes so well quest couldnt do anything even when they got pickoffs

[stray yew]

ye

not a single team can get more points now

[manic ermine]

Tsm going to TI

[stray yew]

from below top 12 that is

ye actually insane how few points qualifies you to ti this time around

so many shuffles etc

[stone geode]

in between games I managed to watch almost all of the vods, only quest vs lgd g2 left

[manic ermine]

Idk Og roster was extremely unstable this year

Standin after standin

[stone geode]

went downhill since ammar left

[stray yew]

it doesnt help eu is fucking rough

qualifying to major through eu dpc is so rough

[stone geode]

maybe he realizes now he should stick to pos3

[rugged cipher]

i mean they keep getting pos5's who cant go to lans etc

for some reason

[stray yew]

they won tiebreaker once

to qualify to major

and lost it once aswell i think

and once idk just didnt quite make it

they'd be cruising through any other regional dpc to make it to a major

but eu one is something else

[manic ermine]

Idk I don't think some players try hard enough with their visas to LANS

How can it be such a consistent problem?

On the same team

[stone geode]

I dont think its on the players to get their visas

[stray yew]

orgs are at fault?

or not rly

im not sure

[stone geode]

surely its not players themselves applying and getting their visas sorted

[rugged cipher]

ofc it is mainly on the player

im sure they have someone who help them with applications, but interviews etc if needed is all on the players

[stray yew]

so

its just players being autistic

and not being prepared well for them

[manic ermine]

I'd assume so

[stray yew]

tbh org should help them a bit its kids that are stupid

barely leave home etc

[manic ermine]

Or not applying again after first rejection

[stray yew]

not putting all pressure on orgs ofc

[manic ermine]

Maybe some orgs help

Like

[stray yew]

players aer majorly at fault in that case

[manic ermine]

Spirit never has visa issues

It's all sorted

[stray yew]

if its rly important to you = you should do a lot yourself to make it happen

[manic ermine]

Is that org or players idk

[stray yew]

and id assume if they committed to playing dota 27 hours a day then it is important for them

spirit strikes me as rly strong org in that regard

their cs team was very successful too so their background people must be rly passionate and just know their stuff

[manic ermine]

But I'd expect OG out of all orgs to get it sorted

[rugged cipher]

why its notail in charge

[manic ermine]

It's not only notail tho

[rugged cipher]

they are the only org with consistent problems but its the same player with the problems 24/7 so ye

just guessing misha etc go full ret or something

[manic ermine]

Idk ultimately I think it falls down to the player

[stray yew]

i wonder what pure is up to

will his twitter release ukraine flag in stop sign now

to do everything to get dqed (again)

[rugged cipher]

maybe gpk just commit seppuku instead

take it into his own hands

[stray yew]

reddit is gonna mald now

that bb make it into ti anyway

i think ideal would be kick tsm out and get quest in

[stone geode]

top 4 going to be EUW

[stray yew]

but no counterplay

[manic ermine]

I'm hoping eeu to show up this TI

Betboom has lots of potential

[stone geode]

so is TI roster all set now?

[manic ermine]

9p and spirit also very strong contenders imo

[stray yew]

ye for sure

there is reason why 9p is 4th in total dpc points

they just did very well this season and improved too

bb is ye very random, i also feel that way about them

their skill ceiling is very high

[manic ermine]

If there's a big patch right before TI

[stray yew]

but.. their skill floor is very low too

very hit or miss

ye for sure some tweaks gonna happen

[manic ermine]

I think 9p can win easily

[stray yew]

brood nerfs/morphling aghs nerfs

and some other outrageous stuff

for sure getting changed

[manic ermine]

Because 9p are on some innovative shit

[stray yew]

i think 9p has perfect roster in that regard

they have 2 veterans + 3 'rookies'

[manic ermine]

Maybe next week we get a letter patch

[stray yew]

thats rly good mix of players

[manic ermine]

To fix morph

[stray yew]

its just aghs that needs change

[manic ermine]

Ye

40% universal stat steal

[stray yew]

but you know if they nerf that aghs

[manic ermine]

[stray yew]

and dont nerf shit like brood

or snap or other universal hero garbage

[manic ermine]

I think many heroes need buffs as well

[stray yew]

you will complain as hard but for that

coz morph just blocked that shit

from existing

for the most part

[manic ermine]

I don't think snap is that broken tho

[stray yew]

i think she's too good myself

but i hate heroes that have too strong spells

i have same with mars

[manic ermine]

She has a very weird time after laning

[stray yew]

legit no brain idiot proof hero on laning

[manic ermine]

Before lvl 20 hits

[stray yew]

you have spell for everything/every lasthit

[manic ermine]

Don't nerf mars when he's back in the meta 😦

[stray yew]

and you passively harass your enemy too

im biggest mars hater probably

[manic ermine]

Passively harass?

[stray yew]

you see range creep accidentaly not getting last hit by you or your pos 4

oh i guess i just spear or gods rebuke

[manic ermine]

You don't skill your E

I'd want more opportunities to grab aghs on mars tho

[stray yew]

you can give 1 point in e but most play 3-2-0-1 i think

[manic ermine]

That makes your E fun

Ammar plays it even more greedy

[stray yew]

ammar just plays greedy

[manic ermine]

Keeps maxing q and w

[stray yew]

doesnt matter what hero

😄

[manic ermine]

But always hold a level to skill ult of needed

[stray yew]

he very often plays position 1

just from offlane

and not on usual position 1 hero either

[manic ermine]

Yeah his net worth is usually massive

[stray yew]

he's very good tho

[manic ermine]

And very fun to watch

Just walks in 1v5

Like it's nothing

[stray yew]

he's great player to have in meta like this one too

coz almost everyone needs to either ban or waste 1st pick for timber

[manic ermine]

Ye

Offlane is fun again imo

After auras nerf

And vanguard

[stone geode]

just in time to get his hero pool nerfed before TI

[stray yew]

i mean remember that major OG won with ammar?

[manic ermine]

You can play cool offlane heroes again instead of stacking same damage reduction items every game

[stray yew]

where it was his 1st lan

if thats TI they win TI

he just peaked at wrong time

coz he reinvented the game

[manic ermine]

Maybe

[stray yew]

changed the way people thought about the game etc

[manic ermine]

Definitely impactful player tho

[stray yew]

there isnt many players that can boast with that

[manic ermine]

Slark offlane the ammar special

[stone geode]

idk how his pos1 stint at nigma went but I guess pretty badly

[stray yew]

he played offlane heroes

from pos 1

and played them like pos 1

he played shit like tide 1

[manic ermine]

Didn't work well

[stray yew]

but tbh looking at it

it looks like nigma was the issue

not ammar

he joins completely new team where he takes over as leader

they get what top 4 at major?

[rugged cipher]

i like that og's fives are coach and ass coach now and still no new player

[manic ermine]

Idk nigmas gameplay is just not panning out

I'd probably point out that supports are the weakest link

[stone geode]

mc looked good when he stood in for og

[manic ermine]

But that's an issue in many teams imo

Like SR

You can always make fun or arteezy

[stone geode]

he is a bad carry

[manic ermine]

But fly and crit this tournament were garbage compared to other supps

Compare to gg supports

[stone geode]

SR core players dont play well together

[manic ermine]

I don't think sr cores are great but this tournaments supps were more underwhelming

[rugged cipher]

eg/sr are very subpar and have been for a long time, basically just milking big salaries and free ti spot in NA

[stone geode]

nobody on SR can carry

[stray yew]

thats just issue of regions

[manic ermine]

I feel like nowadays supports easily carry the first 20 mins of the game

[stray yew]

but tbh looking at nigma

maybe sr would be fucking deluded aswell

and never change players anyway

so maybe my angle doesnt even work

coz my angle would usually be you play in good region -> you lose -> change roster

[stone geode]

SR is the PSG(football) of dota

[stray yew]

but nigma somehow

refuses

anyway

even tho they fial to qualify basically everything for past 3 years

[stone geode]

dominate weak region and then get shit stomped against good teams

[stray yew]

i guess now they finally made 2 player changes i think

[rugged cipher]

kky have to fucking remove himself

[stray yew]

they took ammar

they failed

ammar goes somewhere else

he succeeds

thats not accident

they're just not good/system doesnt work

[manic ermine]

Sumail also succeeded

[stray yew]

whatever you'd say

[manic ermine]

In aster

After he left nigma

[stray yew]

sumail has better success than in nigma ye

for sure

even tho aster is a 🤏 of a mess

and they shouldve secured ti spot imo

but they managed to fail somehow

[manic ermine]

Yeah and now boboka is not in the team

[stone geode]

asters biggest issue looked to be communication

[jolly crane]

its funny how people are whining about the small crowd etc.

i actually think this major is kinda cool

production issues suck ofc but like

talent and players seem to have a fucking blast

or the "ESL events have always been good" narrative

when people were playing on wooden chairs and shitty desks that couldnt even fit screen+keyboard properly

cuz they cut costs everywhere they can except venue

[manic ermine]

I mean ppl who are actually at the major are saying it's a very enjoyable experience

[jolly crane]

ye

[manic ermine]

But the crowd grievances are a side effect of production issues which have been consistent

[jolly crane]

its just...

id rather have a major where the talent and players feel like they can bring their best

than one where they have hotel issues, shitty food/accommodations etc.

[manic ermine]

Honestly an outdoors scene sounds very nice

With just a roof

[jolly crane]

ye

[manic ermine]

Getting fresh air during summer

[jolly crane]

idk this seems like more of a celebration of the players and talent

and im totally on board with a major like that

[manic ermine]

They do need to take a loot at the streaming issues tho

[jolly crane]

the audio delay is really obnoxious

[manic ermine]

Sunsfan said he can share what's wrong behind the scenes afte major ends

[jolly crane]

id reckon it might just straightup be smth they cant fix

otherwise it wouldve happened by now? idk

[manic ermine]

🤷‍♂️

I still think this is far from Lima shit show

[jolly crane]

people like to pretend that other majors didnt have... major issues

including ESL ones

with massive pauses between games

caster audio feedback

etc.

and theyve been doing this shit for 15+ years

[manic ermine]

Berlin seemed very smooth tho

[jolly crane]

dont even remember, other than riki crowd

animajor is a good example. fans loved it. players hated it.

it seems difficult to do a major where everybody is taken care off

and if i had to choose, id choose player/talent comfort 10/10 times

[manic ermine]

Ppl who were in the Berlin major sent me some vids

The crowd was pretty loud

Just didn't reflect that on stream audio

[jolly crane]

ESL rarely had complaints from the fan perspective

they did have many complaints over the years from players

i remember a few from csgo events where players had to play/practice in rooms that were at 5-10°C

or the org of a team itself buying proper gaming chairs instead of some shitty foldable ones

but ye, ESL did some good events now that they have saudis laundering their money through them, so they dont really have budgetary issues anymore

[thorny fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/dedikodu-gossip-shock-şaşırmak-shocking-gif-19902616

GG vs Liquid?

[manic ermine]

I'm not a fan of the zeus shard rework

I think the 7.32 zeus was pretty perfect

This right click style feels too forced and out of place

[rugged cipher]

haha wtf isthis dancing

[manic ermine]

Water dance 🌊

[stone geode]

im watching the previous series before this starts

[jolly crane]

is it just me or is GG kinda... boring to watch?

like, they play at a really high level but it feels like every game is the same

[stone geode]

I like watching BB the most

[manic ermine]

They use the same strat and it keeps working

But idk

I think their supports are fun to watch

[jolly crane]

ace/tofu/seleri are ridiculously good ye

its just... every draft kinda runs the same strat

it works for them but its not very entertaining to watch

[manic ermine]

I mean tundra wasn't too entertaining to watch but they won TI

[jolly crane]

its kinda like the old OG, never liked watching them cuz it was just illusion hero highground chip for 3 patches and they never really went out of their comfortzone to try smth new basically

[manic ermine]

I can appreciate one thing about them

No other team plays around big cooldowns efficiently like they do

Like they utilise metamorphosis incredibly well

Or big offlane cooldowns like ravage, roar

Makes terrorblade look better than the hero actually is

[jolly crane]

they play really well around their pos1/2

quinn/dyrachyo can kinda do whatever they want and then the other 3 will sometimes collapse around them to force a fight with their core, or just do smth by themselves

[manic ermine]

Dyrachyo is also fun to watch because he can unpredictably become very aggressive

[jolly crane]

its why they have so many individual deaths on quinn when it doesnt work

[manic ermine]

Sometimes you get memes but more often he gets the kills

[jolly crane]

but ye its just overall like... if youve seen 5 GG games, youve seen all of them, kinda feels like that

[manic ermine]

For sure

I'm hoping liquid can finally win

If they stall till jugg lvl 20 I think they take game 1

[stone geode]

I dont like TB

too hard for carry brain

[thorny fiber]

Man Snare really worked his way up

[manic ermine]

Yeah I really enjoy him

Also this guy put a liquid sticker on a secret shirt

[worn drift]

Bro these pauses

[humble yew]

didnt really follow that major sadly, timezone and production value is meh

I had to choose between this and the Tour de France

whos winning atm

[manic ermine]

Game is even

[worn drift]

Europe

[humble yew]

ez

[manic ermine]

Liquid is making some recovery moves

[humble yew]

did shopify made it out of groupstage?

[manic ermine]

Yes

[worn drift]

Liquid has lead but enemy disruptor has aghanim

All you need to know as of rn

[humble yew]

disruptor agha

AoE Doom

[manic ermine]

That's why they hyper focus disruptor in all fights

They have 2 nullifiers on liquid

Easy to burst down

[stone geode]

pause into straight up gg

[worn drift]

Kek

Ye brood doesn’t bkb run at disruptor and fight is lost

And anton didn’t try any spicy meme sunders

Only dyrachyo will sunder his 1 hp disruptor with like 3 enemy heroes around

[jolly crane]

barely

and they were in the much easier group

[humble yew]

[jolly crane]

rtz is just a liability at this point

[humble yew]

I like rtz

but yeh ever since he switched to P1

which is a long time ago now

it never been the same

[stone geode]

hes not been good like ever

as pos 1

[worn drift]

Saberlight is also a piece of shit player lol

Should send rtz to pos 3

[stone geode]

nah he has no impact, just all farm no play

[worn drift]

Ye his macro is awful

But he is still high skilled in terms of micro

P sure most pros still say hes extremely good at lane

[manic ermine]

The rtz farming patterns

[worn drift]

But after that clowntown starts

But idk saberlight should just become full time streamer

[humble yew]

his playstyle would suit the position 3 very well imho

rtz

in current meta

[stone geode]

if by playstyle you mean greed then yes but I disagree

because pos3 is more important than 1 in this meta

to me SR core players just dont play well together

[manic ermine]

Their entire team is playing disjointed

Supports as well

[humble yew]

they dont pay wel together, but Ive been watching the guy play since he was playing ESEA pubs back in the days

and the dude lives to be agressive

and P1 is the pos where you get bullied

not the other way around

[stone geode]

his ego wont let him switch roles I think

[worn drift]

Probably not

[stone geode]

but for sure I think they should give it a shot in some capacity

[worn drift]

But no team with saberlight will ever win

[humble yew]

yeh thats why I always thought it was kind of a waste for him to play P1

hes not bad at the game like, ofc you'lll always have better players

[worn drift]

He isn’t like ccnc where hes pretty good just on a bad team for a long time

[stone geode]

I think ammar is the perfect bully pos3 for this meta

[worn drift]

Saberlight is just a dog tier pro player

No team with him on it can win anything

[humble yew]

didnt watch saberlight play recently, but I really liked him in TSM

and he seems like a chill dude

[worn drift]

One things for certain, they gotta take slots away from china

[humble yew]

for TI?

[worn drift]

In general

[humble yew]

more slots for EU thats for sure

[worn drift]

Idk why they let IG just come to tournies and get fucking dumpstered every match

Pointless

[stone geode]

game is dead in all regions but EU

[worn drift]

Even NA noob region has teams that give a better showing

[humble yew]

SA showed strong stuff in the past 2 years

I like their playstyle

even tho it's a bit scuffed sometimes

[worn drift]

Ye i like that they pick what they want

[humble yew]

ye

they are the russians of America continents

[worn drift]

Non meta ta pos 1 for jim parker

And sf

Chads

[humble yew]

they even still picked shit like Mars after being nerfed to oblivion

[worn drift]

Ye

Actually impressive how much sacred does with how little net worth he gets lol

Every game i swear dude has same nw as a pos 4 but has huge impact

But ye take a slot away from china no reason to have IG come to tournies and get thrashed

[humble yew]

thats sad tho

cause China dota reputation

[stone geode]

better stick to lol

[humble yew]

one of the best player of all time

if not the best support is Chinese

put some respect on china dota number one

[stone geode]

ok and?

[stone geode]

its over

[stray yew]

wtf is this

[jolly crane]

ace is actually

[stray yew]

timber full hp all fight

[jolly crane]

insane this tourney

he just ran out of mana

now with sheevers

gonna do a lot more

[stray yew]

hot take but either team doesnt have urn

and isnt it rly good this game

for both

[jolly crane]

it is ye

vessel would be sick

for both teams

[stray yew]

good vs primal/lesh/wisp/even darkseer

and rly good vs timber

[stone geode]

who buys it though

[stray yew]

he just died

[jolly crane]

i mean you just get vessel on io i think

or rubick

feel like vessel is good item on io cuz youre always getting kills early

[stone geode]

idk how, radiant have no damage

[jolly crane]

huh?

you just

io+lesh relocate

thats an urn charge everytime?

[stone geode]

I mean how ace died

[jolly crane]

oh

[stray yew]

they do have damage

[jolly crane]

illusion

[stray yew]

they just dont have classic right click carry

so its a bit easier to tank for magic dmg

[jolly crane]

like, that lesh is juiced

[stone geode]

lesh and primal is spread damage mostly

[stray yew]

mostly magic tho

this should be over

[jolly crane]

ye

[stone geode]

megas no timber ye

[jolly crane]

no meta

lv25 lesh

edict

[stone geode]

cant believe the liquid lineup lasted this long

[stray yew]

lesh/io is just this good

[stone geode]

in my eyes its a draft that just falls off quickly

but these are top pros

[manic ermine]

That was a fun game

[jolly crane]

Reminds me too much of old deathball meta

[stone geode]

gg ez

[stray yew]

the truth is they have rly insane team

[rugged cipher]

ccnc na's last hope

[stray yew]

i dont think if you were assembling top 5 players of all roles in history of the game you'd consider any of the GG players

[jolly crane]

Ye for sure. It's just kinda boring to watch after a while

[stray yew]

after like their 1st won major or even 2nd

and suddenly -boom iirc +quinn made them most dominant team ever

idk how

dont remember who was their previous midlaner

[jolly crane]

Nah it's ace

Every game

[stray yew]

i still think there is people you'd put in front of him on top 5 offlaners in the history of the game

even now

[jolly crane]

oh for sure, they just run like a well oiled machine

ace/seleri/tofu

are kinda ridiculous

id reckon you could put anybody else on 1/2 and it would still work

but you cant replace any of those 3

[stray yew]

i think their personalities work in that regard

[jolly crane]

cuz its not like quinn or dyrachyo do insane plays or anything. they just dont hardint their lanes

and so they always come out of the laning stage decently well

then ace gets his items

and then its snowball

their supports always have item progression as well

its insanely effective the last 2 patches, but its just boring cuz they dont really add new heroes to their pool

i can appreciate an OD pick or a lonedruid or the offlane visage picks etc. cuz its a bit different every time, but GG is just always the same. youve seen one game, youve seen them all

[stray yew]

its most imbalanced meta in a while i can imagine

least variety been picked

id be pretty sure of that

[jolly crane]

ye

dusa is stupid

[stray yew]

usually its been like most heroes been at least banned in the tournament

[jolly crane]

cuz it actually goes through a lot, compared to morph which is just banned all the time

and then bcuz of dusa

theres a lot of other picks that are kinda designed to go with/against it

[jolly crane]

ye

how is AA

unpicked

in a morph meta

for example

[manic ermine]

Sleeper

[stray yew]

it was banned from time to time

[manic ermine]

I think dawn is sleeper too

[jolly crane]

stuff like nightstalker not being picked at all

when it was key hero pick for a long time

quite a few vessel heroes that just dont see play

but that list also isnt accurate, unless its mainstage only

cuz ive definitely seen jakiro

but ye idk its just boring to watch imo. ymmv

[manic ermine]

Ns is just weird

Doesn't fit offlane role atm

And is not good enough to carry pos 1

Maybe mid night stalker

[jolly crane]

i mean NS used to be played as pos5

a lot

[manic ermine]

Unfortunate how the situation with betboom went down

They almost beat gg in the finals or riyhad

Feels like a team that could match gg

[stray yew]

they still have less points

[rugged cipher]

so GG beat liquid every major final

but ye stupid that dpc tour gives so much more

or rather 160 diff instead of 50 diff on first vs second

but prolly like that so there are teams from every region

[manic ermine]

EU TI qualifiers are omega stacked

[worn drift]

I mean they had BOOM on mid and weren’t as successful

Heres the key to beating gg

[stray yew]

ye thats my angle too

[worn drift]

Just get a mid laner that can dunk on quinn every game

Beat quinn you tilt him off the planet cause weak mental player and you win

[stray yew]

i dont rly think he gets phased by it that much in actual pro games lmao

coz its just opportunity cost

its all about resources either in draft or game itself

[worn drift]

I think he has galaxy sized ego so i disagree

[stray yew]

ye in public sure

[worn drift]

I think getting solo killed on big stage f.ex will infuriate him

[stray yew]

but so did sumail look like he's biggest ego ever

and yet everyone says he's best teammate

tries THE hardest to improve etc

he does die solo in some games in matchups he shouldnt

dying 1v1 on mid is very rare now tho

out of entire pro scene i have biggest respect to quinn and sneyking honestly

left cozy home to actually strive to be best

live in different culture

big respect for that

so few players get credit for it

[worn drift]

I think there just come a time where you realize there is no hope in NA

[stray yew]

maybe ye

[worn drift]

Abed is next

[stray yew]

sumail possibly?

idk what his backstory is entirely tho

but he played 3 different regions

[worn drift]

Abed needed to leave long ago

[jolly crane]

all the games GG lost, quinn got shit on mid

[worn drift]

Just riding the eg clown train

[jolly crane]

its not like he tilts but like, he farms more aggressively and you can keep farming him

so they cant play around him, and playing around quinn is key to their midgame deathball

[stray yew]

i think someone noticed that all of the eu teams play HEAVILY around mid

so since you paly around it and guy still gets stomped you sacrificed a lot of resources

sooo entire team/map suffers

how i see it

[jolly crane]

and they werent as successful with boom, cuz i think the patches just heavily favored quinns playstyle and heropool

you could already see it this major that he struggled a lot more

whenever he had to play storm

[worn drift]

Really? I think boom is just more low skill than quinn

[jolly crane]

well that adds to it

but quinns heropool is kinda smol

frankly, so is tofus/seleris

[worn drift]

Quinn is actually a really skilled laner which is why their strat works so well lol

[stray yew]

all the midlaners can play stuff like puck/spirits

honestly

[worn drift]

He rarely loses lane

But i think if you wanna beat gg you have to target quinn

[stray yew]

and its been bread and butter for so long

[worn drift]

Hard

Target him in draft and in game

[jolly crane]

ye but theres a qualitative difference between the top-tier mids and someone like quinn playing storm or puck

[worn drift]

If you tilt quinn you win

[stray yew]

nisha had bad games on storm too

[jolly crane]

nah you target seleri imo

[stray yew]

he's still goat

[jolly crane]

in draft

the supports make the game for GG and they always get what they want

[worn drift]

Idek what their 4/5 play well i assume 4/5’s just play anything

[jolly crane]

cuz everybody is banning cores

[stray yew]

they did ban ench a lot

i think

against GG

[jolly crane]

but they both have 2 hyper impact heroes

which is tofu techies and seleri ench

[stray yew]

techies is just op for everyone

everyone been playing it

you just didnt have ban for it becuase stuff like brood exists or morph

medusa

[jolly crane]

it had mediocre winrate this tourney actually

[worn drift]

Not as much lately i thought

[jolly crane]

but its

tofus techies is much more of a menace on laning stage

than most others

cuz he actually uses blastoff/mine combos a lot

with blood grenades

to create hughe econ pressure on the carry to buy more regen

most other techies ive watched are kinda afk

barely use blastoff in lane

[stray yew]

i mean honestly orgs like shopify/eg/psg/liquid

tundra

they cant be stupid and not have people do these kinda analysis for them

[jolly crane]

fair point

but like

[stray yew]

everyone is doing best they can

[jolly crane]

weve had situations like this in the past a lot as well

where people just ban the wrong heroes/players

[stray yew]

besides 1st 2 bans in the game

i think you're banning for the game itself

[jolly crane]

and then suddenly one team figures it out and basically ruins that team

[stray yew]

not rly against players

sometimes you do cheeky someones iconic hero ban

[jolly crane]

ye but this tourney for example

i felt like the morph/dusa bans were like

kinda pointless? cuz one of them would always go through

[stray yew]

its very dependant on medusa

i dont know the names of the picks and such

but basically right as you saw 2 picks from enemy you wanted to pick medusa

and then secure bans like dark seer/am

because medusa just cant play into that

[jolly crane]

id value smth like undying or beastmaster ban, or ench/techies vs GG, higher than dusa/morph imo

[stray yew]

then you let brood go through

[jolly crane]

okay

[stray yew]

or idk io/lesh

coz they even had to start banning io

[jolly crane]

like, obviously its a lot more complex and everything

i just dont get the morph/dusa ban hate when stuff like brood/beast exist

then again beastmaster had shitty performance in groups

[stray yew]

i think they did experiment on liquid this time around

they took their io/lesh

then they played vs ggs io/lesh

and they figured out ye if we cant just pick it we must ban it

[worn drift]

Ppl just rate morph/dusa very highly

[stray yew]

because morph makes lots of stuff unplayable

picking morph = banning like 50 heroes

+/-

you get the idea

[agile onyx]

highly desireable carries make people go nuts

[stray yew]

nah its just his aghs

[jolly crane]

morph is manageable if you ahve a lot of kite, but the enemy can just play a lot of catch and then you cant kite out the morph

[stray yew]

he steals and gives stats to himself

imagine situation where both carries are 10k networth

[agile onyx]

like if you can first phase your pos 1, people just go crazy

[jolly crane]

stealing 70attack speed and 20% agi is just... stupid

[stray yew]

and he uses thisd aghs on enemy 10k networth carry

and now suddenly he is 15k networth carry because he stole stats

and enemy is 5k networth carry

[agile onyx]

first phase your pos 1 and have them completely take over the game*

[stray yew]

its legit 2 items swing

[jolly crane]

some guy did some testing and aghs morph solos a bunch of 6-slotted carries

like, just aghs

no other items

[stray yew]

aghs will get reworked again at some point

[jolly crane]

you need to kite out the morph duration

and once hes 18, that gives you 25seconds

[stray yew]

probably for now gonna get some number changes

[jolly crane]

think theyll keep it as it

but increase cooldown

so theres more downtime

and lower duration

[stray yew]

they will do some heavy neutral items balancing too

[jolly crane]

then you can play around it, just need to disengage, similar to how you play against TB

[stray yew]

i assume

coz its stupid

when you see game 40 mintues in

and its 9 ninja gears

and 1 guy no ninja gear coz he didnt win the roll

[worn drift]

Ye i mean smoke on neutral item is predictably op just before you could only have 1 SOMETIMES

[stray yew]

yea hopefully because now its a token so you choose they will quickly spot the outliers

that people just always pick coz they're op

(in 1 year because dota gets only a yearly patch)

[worn drift]

Xdd

[stray yew]

i guess noone knows how to beat morph reliably or isnt comfy enough

coz if there was a team that knew

they could farm easy W's

just like tundra knew how to beat lesh in ti11

with 33 item builds

[agile onyx]

dota's a complex game. it's hard to fully counter something reliably.

[worn drift]

To beat gg you need to utilize old school og methodology of bm

Have your mid solo kill quinn and then 5x tip him

Idk why bm tipping has become a thing of the past

Op tool

[stray yew]

people do it

[agile onyx]

i feel like i definitely saw it

[stray yew]

just look at any game that is gg vs 9pandas

ramzes and quin get tipped all the time

[worn drift]

Bm tips/voicelines

I mean ye but thats just

[stray yew]

voicelines are useless they just mute each other

[worn drift]

1 off player feuds

[stray yew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DQLl0AWP7A

[agile onyx]

man, how far these ex-analysts have come

[worn drift]

this is why you have to attack quinn

[stray yew]

@jolly crane i already heard angle that gg is just lucky

i guess winning 3 majors and 2 other relevant tournaments is all luck

[jolly crane]

nah its not luck, theyre stomping everybody

i do think that if theres a major patch that actually shifts the meta tremendously, GG will struggle a lot

cuz i dont believe in quinn adjusting to a meta where he cant play spirits/puck/pango/lesh every single game

[stray yew]

he plays ta/huskar/dk

[jolly crane]

or even just if the deathball/aura meta gets nerfed more

[stray yew]

he can play a lot

[jolly crane]

he lost most of those games tho didnt he? 😄

think he lost both DK games?

but ye, huskar is true

[stray yew]

didnt watch all the games so cant say

but i know its his special when he sees ember in enemy team to pick huskar

pango is just straight up op i think

i feel like hero is underpicked

[jolly crane]

he lost on timber twice actually

and twice on lesh

and ember

[stray yew]

looking at playoff games

yea he lost on ember

[jolly crane]

so yeah, his losses this tourney were on ember, lesh, timber

[stray yew]

but it was meepo last pick

[jolly crane]

he lost an ember game in groups as well

[stray yew]

ember is bad vs meepo i think

im checking playoff games rn

he lost on qop too

[jolly crane]

that was a pos4 qop wasnt it?

he played snap mid

iirc

[stray yew]

did he play doom or snap

ah ok

i remember he played qop in one game too

maybe it was won

[jolly crane]

ye i just remember the pos4 qop pepega stuff

nvm he did play qop in that game

so it was some other team maybe

i remember they got destroyed by AR in one game

in 18minutes

[stray yew]

betboom has rlyt good matchup into gg for some reason

[jolly crane]

betboom usually has good laning

and thats where GGs strength comes from typically

they dont lose their lanes

[stray yew]

tundra lost to betboom 2-0 too

and then liquid got 2-0'd in upper by tundra

weird

[jolly crane]

betboom drafts 3 strong lanes

and then snowballs from that

just like GG

[stray yew]

ye it has to be something stylistic

[jolly crane]

but i feel like a team like betboom is just better at it

if they execute well

cuz they try more

[stray yew]

i think betboom just has better players

in like all role

[jolly crane]

their heropool is bigger

[stray yew]

when it comes to skill

[jolly crane]

nah

[stray yew]

but it doesnt matter

[jolly crane]

tofu/seleri are legit

the best supportduo in the world rn

[stray yew]

idk save is i think best 4 in the world

he is just stuck in gpk team

and pure team

i guess

[jolly crane]

hes too hti and miss imo

[stray yew]

[jolly crane]

he has some standout performances

[stray yew]

pure does random shit outside of the game

[jolly crane]

but also some weak ones

[stray yew]

and gpk does random shit inside of the game

[jolly crane]

i havent seen a game yet wher seleri/tofu just dont get anything done

[stray yew]

ye their support combo is best we've seen in a while

[jolly crane]

man that 18min AR win

lmao

http://puu.sh/JKZnU/4998d91038.jpg

dyrachyo had good item progression in that game

6min no item

[stray yew]

sometimes you jsut get stomped

[jolly crane]

1-7-1 on TB

[stray yew]

when you play this many grp games

every team h ad disaster game i bet

[jolly crane]

ye he had

5.5k networth after 18min

thats no ideal as a carry

[stray yew]

i tihnk riyadh starts in a week or so

[jolly crane]

think the biggest strength of GG is their consistency

you can see in their losses that they get outplayed quite often by teams

[stray yew]

well liquid is consistent too

[jolly crane]

but those teams dont do it regularly

[stray yew]

they only played bad in one dreamleague

but they said they took it easier

and now they were back to major winning form

[jolly crane]

ye but liquid get too cute

[stray yew]

they just have bad matchup vs gg

[jolly crane]

maybe thats on purpose tho

they try stuff

[stray yew]

ye i think liquid dont have killer mindset

idk

weird

[jolly crane]

they know theyre safe right

[stray yew]

they just never win finals

[jolly crane]

so

[stray yew]

ever

[jolly crane]

theyd rather try stuff in finals

and lose

cuz it helps them understand GG better

[stray yew]

i mean nisha sniper/lone druid

was a major failure

[jolly crane]

i fully expect GG to do badly in TI

[stray yew]

ye thats typical

dominate entire season

bad ti

[jolly crane]

gonna pull a secret/VP

[stray yew]

[manic ermine]

Multiple teams tried that but ace ended up carrying the game

Ace is the guy that just farms up stuff quietly and wins the game

[stray yew]

targetting players in game shouldnt work its the same in avg game when you play pub

and one guy is complaining coz he gets perma 3 man rotation ganked

adn he cant play

that means other people from his team get stuff done/resources from map

also as famous zai quote goes

you dont win game by shitting on one guy 20 times

exceptions being maybe when its like he's tinker in his team

or meepo

some mega cheese pick that shouldve done lots of stuff

[manic ermine]

Kiotaka tinker

[stray yew]

ye he's usually rly good

but ive seen the game where he went like 0-10

got nothing done

and just lost

[manic ermine]

Took a one hour game for spirit to finally break the tinker

[stray yew]

got mega bullied

[jolly crane]

yeah its about delaying timings

konowing exactly when you have your spikes but enemy doesnt yet

which is tough to do

[manic ermine]

Idk what disappointed me this major is it felt like so many games were lost from draft

[jolly crane]

you need insane game-sense to understand how your laning stage translates into timings in the midgame

and GG seems to have that

[stray yew]

when i play 5 stack with friends

and i tell them when im gonna start doing stuff

and i ping them im missing 300g for item

and right as i almost have it

they decide to feed

[jolly crane]

ye

[stray yew]

and make game impossible

[manic ermine]

need 300 gold for black king bar

Team initiates a fight

[stray yew]

[jolly crane]

i dont know that situation

no one in my team ever buys bkb

[stray yew]

i find myself buying bkb very late myself

in this patch

[manic ermine]

Bkb is more situational now which is nice

Instead of going first/ second item bkb

[worn drift]

biggest disappointment this major was the betboom situation lol

tundra got plot armor and betboom got fucked

[manic ermine]

Betboom is a team that could beat gg as well

[worn drift]

ye probably the only team in the tournament

[stray yew]

quest got quite close too all things considered

and they had crazy 1-1 game in grps iirc

[worn drift]

happy for dyrachyo

and ace

tbh everyone but ccnc

[rugged cipher]

ur jelly cus he such a chad

[worn drift]

https://tenor.com/view/quinn-callahan-ccnc-dota-2-get-out-leave-my-room-gif-11934015375406318575

[rugged cipher]

i think both and him and crystallis need a haircut

the long hair dont complement them

[worn drift]

they both look like fuckin megamind

[rugged cipher]

ye long heads and huge foreheads

long hair prolly just highlights it even more

[worn drift]

btw based on betboom's blog

the tournament admins actually decided at first to only give them a level 3 draft penalty

and said it was their final decision

and then they altered their decision

apparently tundra was actually ready to play a bo1 as well

[stray yew]

aui said they were told they can use spotify too

[rugged cipher]

reddit to powerful

[stray yew]

just shitshow

[rugged cipher]

[worn drift]

actual cringe tbh

cringe behavior by azure ray and the tourny org

it is our final decision
reads reddit
okay we must alter our final decision because people hate pure

[jolly crane]

TOs dont have a backbone, news at 11

[rugged cipher]

are there no open quals for ti

[stray yew]

there are these regional qualifiers dont know rules for how to take part in them tho

[rugged cipher]

ye but doesnt seem to be any open qualis to join them only non qualed div1-2 teams

dendis team actually top contender for NA qual

[stray yew]

naa nounds should win

nouns*

nouns almost sabotaged themselves

because they qualified to major and stole some points from tsm

[rugged cipher]

ye they are fave but dendis team has been "top3" outside of tsm+sr

[stray yew]

true

[manic ermine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/14wkjoo/your_average_pudge_contribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1

[jolly crane]

fml

[thorny fiber]

Fml

[manic ermine]

https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/1679665974587559936?s=20

Wykrhm Reddy (@wykrhm)

Dota 7.34 will be released before The International Regional Qualifiers begin in August. #Dota2

Likes

2161

Retweets

304

Twitter · Jul 14, 2023, 1:35 AM

[thorny fiber]

Really?

From 1.5 years without anything

To 2 patches within 6 months

[jolly crane]

3 actually

since last patch was split into 2

[thorny fiber]

Ah

But since its a 7.34 and not 7.33D

[jolly crane]

ye

[thorny fiber]

I guess we can expect semi big changes

[jolly crane]

its another big one which is definitely surprising

i think its necessary tho

7.33 ultimately didnt really change all that much

[thorny fiber]

I mean the universal hero change was neat

And the teleporting

Map size

Would want to see more item changes tho

Kinda stale in that department

[jolly crane]

was it?

its one of the few things lately where i feel really not happy about it

[thorny fiber]

It made my favorite hero better for a while

So i am biased

[jolly crane]

haha

ye idk

getting skewer-harpooned by a 500dmg magnus minute 20

isnt so fun

[thorny fiber]

Nah

But void spirit is great!

Some nerfs later, maybe not so much anymore

[manic ermine]

Well they did sacrifice the battlepass for more patches

And it's good to see them delivering on that promise

[silver geyser]

I have one request of them

Please make earth spirit good

[stray yew]

earth spirit was good

(marci)

[silver geyser]

but marci doesnt have the funny surfing taunt

[stray yew]

man of culture playing heroes that have good skins/taunts

[manic ermine]

Razor arcana+taunt

[silver geyser]

i am a for fun player

[thorny fiber]

The only way to play dota

[stray yew]

i can respect that

morphling is nerfed so i can ethically play it now

right @jolly crane

[jolly crane]

No

[stray yew]

ill pretend i didnt see that

[stone geode]

morphling is cool, follow your heart

[silver geyser]

real. hate when my favourite heroes are broken

cause then i dont wanna play them

[jolly crane]

https://imgur.com/a/e5Mv7#09t2kdG

[stray yew]

i love when shit like that hapens

pro playing now

and its some shadow amulet type shit

[stone geode]

go mid throne

[thorny fiber]

Can we got some more dota tournaments

Riyadh starting soon

[stray yew]

@jolly crane

[jolly crane]

[stray yew]

@jolly crane 🤽‍♂️

[jolly crane]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-right-to-jail-right-away-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-gif-16177531

[stray yew]

its nerfed

its ethical

[silver geyser]

Did they nerf anything other than aghs?

[stray yew]

adaptive has bigger cd

[rugged cipher]

riyadh play in

[jolly crane]

Dunno if I'm going to watch

I want to but I also don't want to support the event :/

[rugged cipher]

not sure what vp is doing, pick io pos1 with ds and pango cores

can legit not boost anyone

wait quest repalced ATF after failed direct invite?

[thorny fiber]

As a football enjoyer its already too late for me

So i am watching this

[jolly crane]

ye

[thorny fiber]

He left for Navi no?

Cus he wanted to play EEU ti qualis

And not WEU

[jolly crane]

think so

it was ammar who didnt wanna extend his loanout

[thorny fiber]

Smart move

Cant blame him

WEU is ridiculously stacked

[rugged cipher]

hmm really is navi even good?

navi pos3 in quest now at least so perhaps

[thorny fiber]

Well the good teams in EEU have already qualified

Betboom, 9pandas and spirit

All qualified

[thorny fiber]

Oh ok

Well then

Can only guess what the contract had

Maybe it was for Riyadh only

And he wanted a TI team

[rugged cipher]

or very bad ti % or something

[thorny fiber]

Ye

I mean riyadh is the real money

[rugged cipher]

ye bit weird to not extend over this tourney at least

like another week

[jolly crane]

i lowkey guess they wanted to extend the contract until after TI and he didnt want that

and wanted to just join for riyadh and then dip for a team with better chances at TI