but its not
#Diablo IV
open nymph
versed gazelle
i can only hope they allow me to move it later
trail wind
honestly biggest thing is the stick is just for moving
open nymph
its a console game that received one massively shitty port. square enix pc ports are better than this
trail wind
so just proper force move on left click
versed gazelle
the beta so far at least has gotten me to probably buy the game at release
but there are some real glaring issues
that i hope they talk about before launch
trail wind
I mean its going to be a fun thing to play through but its just a single player campaign thing
trail wind
good thing path of exile is a game and diablo 4 coming out doesnt make it go away
versed gazelle
patience with quality
dusky juniper
good thing path of exile is a game and diablo 4 coming out doesnt make it go awa...
for sure
new expansion 2 weeks LOGIN
maiden anvil
Bro I love watching the dichotomy of players atm
Everybody says "Barb does no damage it's so weak" and then I tune into alks stream and hes just 1 shotting everything
steady plinth
skill issue
maiden anvil
Actually true LOL
maiden anvil
Sure but when I watch quin, kripp, or ziz play brab, vs alk playing barb
its literally 2 different characters
dusky juniper
necro is just clearly broken beyond anything else it's not really fair to compare
what is alk doing different?
maiden anvil
Picking good powers, picking good skills
maiden anvil
Ya leveling is rough
trail wind
I killed the butcher on a controller with barb
maiden anvil
I never played barb so idk what skills he actually plays but he was playing like
upheavel shit, with the god of war ult
trail wind
I did rend with thorns
maiden anvil
Now hes playing whirlwind barb
trail wind
2 shouts, jump and the boys ulti
not particularly min maxed
I aint doing shit in a beta
maiden anvil
Like bro in that quin review he showed a whirlwind build and he was doing zdps
dusky juniper
quin zdps
maiden anvil
Alk is playing ww and he's literally shredding thru everything
dusky juniper
maiden anvil
Killed the butcher before his shouts even faded
trail wind
low key my fav legendary was probably absorb shield when you hit an elite
good on barb
dusky juniper
I mean
alk is in full leggos
and is still doing less than what I do as sorc with barely any gear
maiden anvil
Even before he was full legos
exotic trellis
Controller micro is really nice lol
trail wind
its pretty good on barb, idk how well it works on ranged
exotic trellis
Works really well
Lock target and you can move in opposite direction while still casting
It feels like it almost makes more sense to just play on pad
trail wind
idk how locking even works for barb it locked what I was looking at with left stick
chilly hinge
might be a necro main
sorc at heart but i really like how they made the 3 necro elements poison, bone, and blood
maiden anvil
Rogue me dude
chilly hinge
ill try rogue soon
pure mortar
ill be barb so i can be just like alkaizer :3 >///<
full heart
im watching quin play his necro skele build and it just looks so painfully slow
versed gazelle
it's actually absurd how much more damage i was doing when i did
maiden anvil
I mean this str8 up
Some people just make shit builds
And thats okay
GUess thats a skill balance issue, if an issue at all
But man sometimes people just be building random shit LOL
@latent spade its ur build
check it out
LMFAO
what the fuck
This guy seems like a nutty build maker
maiden anvil
Its insane even in aoe
latent spade
Idk for clearing combo points just felt substantially better cause of the 60% move speed you get for 3 cp twisting blades
But ye until you get to your specializations thing and imbuements rogue does feel not amazing
Probably why everyone crying about it
maiden anvil
Idm that some classes have it harder and easier than others
Maybe its a little too rough but
versed gazelle
i also have a feeling people are not taking dark shroud
maiden anvil
Wizz and Nerco feel str8 up unfair
versed gazelle
'cause holy fuck was i squishy until then
maiden anvil
Yeah
Its pretty insane
lol
I said it early on lol
"People are going to undervalue defensives"
and just stack infinite damage, without synergy
and then are like "wtf"
shell prism
i never noticed that sacred and ancestral is just ancient and primal ancient equivalents in d4
shell prism
they also removed 1 difficulty compared to early info
nightmare doesnt start til 50
and requires campaign
so speedleveling is deadge
maiden anvil
ewww
versed gazelle
adventure mode took until ros
hope we don't wait that long for something to that effect
shell prism
campaigns are atleast somewhat quick
maiden anvil
For a long time t6 was as high as d3 went right
shell prism
but idk, definitely killed my vibe a bit hearing about all of this
maiden anvil
but idk, definitely killed my vibe a bit hearing about all of this
Bit stinky
I just need variety in end game
I liked D3 gearing with LOD
dusky juniper
No need to stack defensive
When teleport gives you 30% DR
And you never take damage cause barrier has a 3 second cd
open nymph
i never noticed that sacred and ancestral is just ancient and primal ancient equ...
do we actually have confirmation on that tho?
afaik all we know is legendary and unique items, i dont think sacred/ancestral dropped in endgame beta
open nymph
like, iirc blizz specifically said they were getting rid of the ancient/primal ancient loot system
versed gazelle
IIRC was all stuff out of the strings that were around that got pulled out of the F&F beta
idk if they've officially unveiled those
maiden anvil
quasi cairn
i mean at this point it just parallel
and that is fine
sometimes you want diff spices
i kinda dig D4 rogue too
open nymph
d4 is an entirely different game
imo d4 is not a competitor to poe or last epoch
same as hots wasnt a competitor to dota or lol
maiden anvil
Yeah
covert cave
I feel that ARPGs mechanics are so easy when you learn it, that playing 2+ ARPGs based on seasons will be no problem for people.
The only real thing for ARPGs is knowledge imo.
As opposed to like MMO's where combat mechanics differ a lot between the games, where rotations need to be practiced etc.
If a D3 player played PoE 1 year ago and you throw them onto a geared and specced meta char with 0 info. They'll be up and running within 2 minutes of combat.
If a WoW player played FFXIV 1 year ago and you throw them onto a geared and specced meta char with 0 info. They'll struggle a whole lot.
open nymph
yeah, games like these have become less about the monster slaying and more about the character building
the actual combat smoothness and gameplay are more prevalent and have a higher focus in a game like lost ark
covert cave
Yeah
open nymph
but aRPGs have changed a lot imo, to the point where people expect complex character build systems and will stick with a game even if it lacks some endgame, if its simply fun to play
quasi cairn
yea most of us in D2 were not spreadsheets heroes
hell if i ran both on my pc it would crash for sure
covert cave
Which imo means that a lot of PoE people will play D4 instead of PoE when D4 has new stuff. And then PoE when it has new stuff, and LE when it has new stuff etc.
So even if D4 to PoE is like HotS to DotA. A lot more PoE guys will play D4 during season releases than DotA guys playing HotS in a new patch
quasi cairn
but now even on the short videos kripp made everyone is like HE IS NOT PLAYING THE BEST BUILD THE BEST BUILD IS XXXXX
meta gaming too stronk
halcyon ingot
well poe got people used
to complex
builds
etc
or just copy paste the build
covert cave
It's so weird. Like I really enjoy optimizing things. As kind of evident by me for so long being involved in TC here. But... how is it so fun to just receive something things that are optimal and follow those guides without 0 knowledge about why or how they are made. All the does is making the game easier for oneself. Moving the problem solving to the last 1% of the game, instead of hitting walls and challenges to overcome all throughout the game. Ofc the campaign etc becomes a "chore" when everything is easy and the only focus is on the last 1%
halcyon ingot
I remember when i first time killed kitava in poe, and didnt know shit about capping my reses, and was dying untill my friend told me to get some hp and res
covert cave
In contrast, I remember doing the campaign on hc like 20 times with friends because we died in higher difficulties back when that was a thing in poe. Then did softcore and a friend gave me a poets pen leveling set and I just used whirling blades through the whole campaign making every encounter just about meaningless :p
maiden anvil
I really like PoE for a lot of reasons
but the actual gameplay is not oneo f them
the actual combat in D4 was quite fun while leveling at least
maiden anvil
trail wind
im watching it at this very moment
halcyon ingot
halcyon ingot
will prob still run melee rogue
feels good
to play
necr was kinda boring
sorc is just smashing buttons with no cdr
maiden anvil
Melee rogue looks nutty
U see the vid of the guy soloing the world boss basically 6 times
lol
halcyon ingot
Ye
chilly hinge
Oh yeah i had an epiphany yesterday that the game will scale off gear instead of abilities
They’re pretty set on these “build changing” uniques from Hell difficulty
dusky juniper
sorc is just smashing buttons with no cdr
It's so fun
Imagine permanent 30% DR and a permanent barrier
And tbh I swapped from Forb to ice shards with the leggo power that makes it pierce
Clear to the moon
tacit bone
My build was the rogue skill that's like ek and then caltraps for big dam. I was using the legendary that makes it a circle until I realised it literally doesn't work. The attack looks like it's a circle but it still only hits in the original cone 
Was really fun tho
Maybe I'm dumb but the combo point option seemed super weak
Maybe it was better with ranged skills?
shell prism
Clear to the moon
try fireball enhancement with zookeeper
tacit bone
doesnt the beta end in a few hours?
shell prism
or u mean cause beta is over
shell prism
im literally seeing people in d4 rn
dusky juniper
It ends today and I work
I wonder what second enchant cold sorc will use
I was thinking ice nova but that requires lucky hit to make work
pure mortar
lucky hit seems hard to evaluate its worth
dusky juniper
Ye
dusky juniper
So like the ico nova enchant is lucky hit it pops on all skull uses.
So you use that to apply vuln. But maybe not since you can basically do that already with ice shards and forb
tacit bone
lucky hit seems hard to evaluate its worth
i was building around it a little. It feelcrafted as pretty good
i think it really depends on how much you can end up getting on endgame gear
covert cave
I also built around lucky hit, imo felt very good. The payoff was good with what we had, but I imagine it just being more payoff with late game items and paragon boards. And esp. with puncturing shot with cp having 30% baseline lucky hits it's really frequent
maiden anvil
quasi cairn
i mean people already talked about the power level of armament
it is fine if it has imba dmg surv and melee range is already caner enough
pure mortar
dusky juniper
For, you and your group? To work though?
So nightmare dungeons are forced group content?
Tell me I'm hearing that wrong
open nymph
i like hearing buzzwords like "a lot more depth, a lot more customization" at the same time as i see the video allocate 5 nodes back to back that are "+5 dex" and "+5 int"
sand oak
mhmm
tacit bone
first 500 or so paragon levels in d3 are more meaningful than that
but there isnt depth to them
no choices to be made
open nymph
for some builds there is. getting reduced cost or more max resource is certianly more meaningful than +5 dex
open nymph
you get crit, movespeed, IAS etc.
sand oak
armor regen
the ms is really cool too cause if u had it on gear or didnt ud change it there
tacit bone
:( your not understanding what im saying
open nymph
i dont mind filler nodes. they exist in poe, and they have some decent reason to be there. i dont really get it in d4, however, and its like 90%of the nodes
well, youre saying +5 dex per node is better than what d3 had
tacit bone
im not saying its better
open nymph
well youre saying "thats more than d3" so
tacit bone
im saying its more depth because there are choices
chilly hinge
i dont consider +5 life or +5 dex a good choice
tacit bone
even if they suck
open nymph
as i said. theres choices in the first 500 paragon levels in d3 too ,ebcause you ahve to choose what to fill out first/second etc.
once youre past that point and simply have ALL selected, that choice was lost, yeah
tacit bone
but yeah it is dogshit
sand oak
and depending on the build u had choices between it
open nymph
like, paragon boards are poe skilltree if the poe skilltree was 90% travelnodes
oh boy
this one soundbite
"nightmare dungeons are going to give the players the opportunity to experience a dungeon that they might have already experienced in their past playthroughs"
OH BOY IS SHE RIGHT ON THAT ONE
tacit bone
am i understanding this right? at endgame they just replaced greater rifts with m+ dungeons?
open nymph
ye
tacit bone
chilly hinge
are you buying d4 at this rate seli
open nymph
you craft a nightmare sigil, apply it to a dungeon adn then just send it
the nightmare sigil has mods that apply to the entire dungeon then, that add iiq/iir, mob health/dam etc. as well as "affixes"
chilly hinge
oh yeah 1.8
tacit bone
I wanna know if this is a hot take or not but after playing the beta for like 4 hours I am already fucking over the open world it was so annoying
chilly hinge
no gain or loss i guess
dusky juniper
Well if you get it for free no harm playing
pure mortar
time is money
dusky juniper
Yeah but seli prob has a billion gold
open nymph
the open world in d4 is like
probably the best part of it?
idk
strongholds are sick
exploring was kinda fun
pure mortar
i mean the time playing d4 as opposed to something else
dusky juniper
open nymph
Yeah but seli prob has a billion gold
i havent boosted in a while so my stock has depleted a bit
sand oak
if killing stuff is cool ima play it
open nymph
but yeah, its chump change
overall im excited for the game, cause its another aRPG coming out at the same time as others
tacit bone
exploring was kinda fun
idk I just felt like the fact that it was open world added nothing to the experience and the fact that I was forced to interact with other players out there kinda annoyed me. Like the first 3 legendaries I found dropped off screen from mobs i didnt see just cause someone else was nearby was really dumb
open nymph
and it takes a different approach to the formula. it might work out well, might work out badly
i just cant take any of them seriously when they try to hype up "theres over 120 dungeons in teh game and you can enhance any of them as you want" when theyre all kinda the same just with different tilesets and mob selection. and then one guys favorite feature is THERE WILL BE PORTALS THAT SPAWN MOBS THAT ARENT NATIVE TO THAT DUNGEON.
dusky juniper
My concern is they're not soloable
open nymph
like, that woudl be a cool feature if these mobs actually did anything different but when the core gameplay loop is to spam these dungeons, its not an exciting feature. at all.
getting a bunch of grotesques or fallen in a dungeon where they normally cant spawn in, isnt gonna make the game feel more exciting, sorry bro.
dusky juniper
Because one of them says in the video "adds difficulty for you and your group"
open nymph
ill say this, out of all the recent arpgs etc.
d4 is the one that i feel is the "easiest" to just play as a grp and add a friend or two
partyplay in poe is painful
and i didnt like it very much in last epoch either
this ratio seems accurate for this video
open nymph
weird take
but all of these people strike me as the type of player who didnt make it past PoEs normal lab
like, endgame is about gameplay, not fucking lore and aesthetics, sorry to say
tacit bone
weird take
im memeing but it def happens
tacit bone
are you the source of the famous copypasta?
pure mortar
probably not
open nymph
but yeah idk, this vid just screams "PR BUZZWORDS" to me by a bunch of people who after the interview got together and said "wow, we really didnt have a lot of stuff to say did we"
sand oak
no they pat themselves on the back
open nymph
so far the most enjoyable part of d4 to me was
doing a stronghold with 15 other people
dungeons were 
and i mean, obv its not gonna be as content rich as poe or LE that had years of improving their endgame content already
quasi cairn
as long as league mods are not super adds and they do what they said every 3-4 months new story etc it will keep its playerbase
it will be quite good for some ping pong gaming
from PoE-D4-WoW
chilly hinge
Why is that a good goal
“To have barely enough content that you get bored in three months”
Wow has so much more content and you don’t do that so
tacit bone
personally atm I play wow to do the raids
all other content I engage in is only to progress that
once raid done
what do?
chilly hinge
Diablo needs to rely on a good gameplay loop. It’s 2023 You can’t rely on cosmetics, battle passes, lore like wow does
You’re proving my point
tacit bone
Diablo needs to rely on a good gameplay loop. It’s 2023 You can’t rely on cosmet...
i thought battlepasses and fomo were all that gaming was in 2023
chilly hinge
Yes. Does that sound fun to you?
Does a diablo 4 built just like diablo immortal sound fun
Don’t you dare say “it makes them billions who cares”
tacit bone
no thats why im probably not gonna play
chilly hinge
Do you play it? Is it fun? Do you enjoy it?
chilly hinge
I’m saying that you only take part in around 25% of what world of Warcraft has to offer.
You just aren’t interested in the rest
But the core gameplay is good
So imagine the same concept in diablo. But it’s not a good loop
There’s just no meat and potatoes
Or there is, but it’s lore and worldbuilding and characters and campaign and collectibles
And every part of wow that you don’t enjoy
open nymph
yeah thats the feeling im getting atm as well
its just... mostly focused on the leveling aspect, really, and not really on the actual endgame gameplay loop. which i think is more than fine for a new release, just not my cup of tea
chilly hinge
They didn’t figure out wow raiding for a few years anyway either, but they have a good blueprint with POE and lost ark type of fights
tacit bone
And every part of wow that you don’t enjoy
maybe im overestimating but I feel like 60% of gamers these days only care about stories and stuff and wouldnt engage with endgame systems that dont progress the story
chilly hinge
But last epoch seems like it has more customization rn
And depth
For an alpha build
tacit bone
They didn’t figure out wow raiding for a few years anyway either, but they have ...
"poe " "good fights"
nice one
dusky juniper
Yes?
chilly hinge
I’ve never played poe we’re talking about progression of gameplay from a game like diablo 2
dusky juniper
You cant tell me that shaper, elder, maven, exarch, and eater and that fire cold bitch arent interesting
Sirus not you
chilly hinge
We’re talking about things more interesting than “boss runs to you and melees you.”
This is a time to be objective
chilly hinge
maybe im overestimating but I feel like 60% of gamers these days only care about...
This is completely baseless but yes everyone likes different aspects of video games.
Here’s the thing about blizzard
dusky juniper
maybe im overestimating but I feel like 60% of gamers these days only care about...
The thing is. You ain't selling battle passes to the people season over season
chilly hinge
They’re known for WoW. So every other game is inherently judged against that
Endgame difficulty, lore, worldbuilding, pvp
chilly hinge
Holy fuck can you be objective for one goddamn conversation
tacit bone
You cant tell me that shaper, elder, maven, exarch, and eater and that fire cold...
shaper and elder have no mechanics at all. maven and eater I agree with, but the majority of poe boss fights (sirus, cortex, atziri, the breach lords, all 14 guardians, exarch) are just "dodge everything or get one shot unless you can ignore the mechanic"
tacit bone
The thing is. You ain't selling battle passes to the people season over season
you can if you are adding lore everytime
idk
chilly hinge
And like seli said. Diablo has everything but the endgame so far
So hopefully that’s figured out
tacit bone
This is completely baseless but yes everyone likes different aspects of video ga...
yeah it is i just get that vibe from whats popular
dusky juniper
shaper and elder have no mechanics at all. maven and eater I agree with, but the...
Shaper and elder are just old.
They were good designs for their time
tacit bone
ill agree with that
open nymph
most of the very old poe fights stand the test of time
shaper/elder/atziri are still good fights mechanically
even atziri trio is still a nice encounter
tacit bone
hard disagree on atziri
fights where you have to control what you do damage to dont work in poe anymore imo
especially when there is so much emphasis on movement and dodging in other fights so you cant make a slow methodical build
dusky juniper
maiden anvil
There are some more interesting nodes on the paragon tree that's the weird part
just from the datamining
Idk why they chose to show the most boring nodes possible
Although the end game doesn't look that in depth
Hopefully they realie that... and start adding onto it >_>
tacit bone
hasnt the game already been in development for like 8 years
feel like if they havent figured that out yet its a yikes from me
trail wind
m+ is surely it 
open nymph
Idk why they chose to show the most boring nodes possible
yeah its really odd
they hover over one of the exciting ones for like
half a second
and then show them selecting 50 +5 nodes and talk about meaningful choice and build enabling stuff
like
why not show a bunch of the keystones
tacit bone
its to generate online discussion from people saying "wow check out this cool node they showed by mistake" and not because they are dumb
maiden anvil
feel like if they havent figured that out yet its a yikes from me
I mean you have to onboard people to the game right
U cant have POE levels of systems on systems, iteration on iteration on the launch right
maiden anvil
If poe launched as it is right now, today, it wouldn't be nearlya s popular
maiden anvil
marketing done wrong
Very rare for blizzard
open nymph
that entire vid should not have been greenlit imo
even for people who havent played beta
tacit bone
I mean you have to onboard people to the game right
I was more talking about the gameplay loop that they showed. it looks super boring
open nymph
its just not a video that people will look at and say WOW I WANNA PLAY THAT LEMME BUY IT FOR 80 DOLLARIDOOS
if you talk nightmare dungeons, show some fucking sick bossfights
if you talk paragon board, show some keystones
and a filled board with 100+ nodes allocated and the pathing etc.
and how rotating boards to unlock new boards is a cool feature
tacit bone
especially discouraging cause the dungeons I played in the beta were super boring
lots of running back and forth
open nymph
but instead its just he same footage if
character using autoattacks on monsters like
theyre not even showcasing
tacit bone
so to here "you just gonna play this 1000 times
open nymph
the coolest looking skills
tacit bone
kinda cringe
open nymph
why is the sorc auto attacking when you wanna create hype
why doesnt she have 2 fucking hydras and a big frost shield and casts sick looking meteors
its just overwhelmingly underwhelming
trail wind
because the combat is supposed to be slow and meaningful
to differentiate from zoom gameplay!
open nymph
thats fine
but the game has great visual and audio design
thats like
one of the main selling points
so watching characters auto attack isnt really a good look at all
not in a "endgame" hype video anyway
tacit bone
slow and meaningful gameplay doesnt work in a game where upgrades are gonna be rare (at least thats how it seems) just makes doing everything take longer
open nymph
youd think they showcase some fully optimized builds in endgame
tacit bone
cause you just doing the same thing over and over again for a tiny chance at an upgrade
open nymph
if this was some story or narrative or design vid? sure, dont showcase a full build with a bunch of skills, that might just be too busy for the screen and detract from what youre trying to show.
but when youre talking endgame and build diversity/opportunity, show some sick looking stuff
dusky juniper
open nymph
The game isnt even slow
found the sorc player
dusky juniper
tacit bone
The game isnt even slow
its not but they made it look slow
which makes me think that the scaling might be boomed
open nymph
but yeah, this video coldve been so much better if they simply used different gameplay footage
trail wind
looks like they are timing their release to not coincide with anything interesting so I will play it regardless
open nymph
but yeah like
maybe this awful marketing is on purpose
since the target demographic for this game clearly isnt any of us
what a world where GGG does better marketing videos than blizzard
tacit bone
ggg skill demonstrations
open nymph
but yeah like
paragon board is so much more indepth
than what they showed
its actually embarrassing 
dusky juniper
ye I bet it is it's just funny
maybe they
are sandbagging on purpose so when it comes out people will be blown away
open nymph
yeah idk
my main concern with the game remains the same: theres almost no skill diversity. unless they add new skills to all classes every few leagues, youre gonna get bored real fucking fast, because if you like playing a certain archetype like minions or shapeshifter or bleed or coldsorc
then theres literlaly only 1 skill
tacit bone
if i cant turn off other players in the open world i will be so mad
quasi cairn
feel the weight of their MTX
quasi cairn
blizz has great artists
it will be lost ark+ lvl
unless they all left because of work from office policies
covert cave
The mtx they showed off was kinda neat
sand oak
who playin poe
pure mortar
i might
sand oak
i got to maps and logged off poe
that game just dont hit like it used to for me
also i like the ideas of builds more than the game itself
sand oak
tbf i was hella underwhelmed with d4 as welll
obv its just act 1 im end game lover only
open nymph
i just dont like how poe has devolved into a game where you get thousands of choices but some of them can be done on a 100c budget, others on a 100div one. just seems like that gap between the mediocre builds and the god-tier ones has become bigger and bigger over time
maiden anvil
i just dont like how poe has devolved into a game where you get thousands of cho...
I'm just tired of the defensive layer arms race I have to deal with in poe
I'm over having to get stun immunity, block, armor, evasion, spells uppression, some way to convert damage, ailment avoid etc
It's just so much of a headache, and without stuff like stun immunity and ailment avoid, ur just perma hindered by bullshit
And then the "solutions" for certain things are just insanely expensive
open nymph
I'm just tired of the defensive layer arms race I have to deal with in poe
yup
i have
no armor nodes
or aura investment
and hitting the determ button makes me go from 10% mitigation to 50%
its just
silly
since you spend so much effort on hitting all the defense checkmarks
and certain defense layers like spell suppression are just too powerful imo, and as a result the rest of the game is balanced around everyone having it, so when you dont, you just get destroyed
maiden anvil
Yep
Or some other alternative way to masively negate damage
It's just too much to keep up
maiden anvil
And then acts are still dogshit LOL
maiden anvil
lol ya
open nymph
obviously its easier to cap spellblock but like
maiden anvil
- better nodes on the tree
open nymph
yeah....
maiden anvil
idk
I had my 1.2k hours of PoE
I'm over it until poe 2
Just no fun for me to get from it anymore
open nymph
yeah
i skipped a bunch of leagues and liked a lot of the changes but overall
theres still some things they dont care to fix
i like cold builds, i like chilling/freezing stuff, and you just cant in poe
half the mobs even with 30% chill still run into your face in half a second
open nymph
i just like spelclasters and most spells in poe just fucking suck. for all the whining about "bows/melee are unplayable", spell selfcasting blows
not for direct damage anyway
dot works ofc
or totems
maiden anvil
Self casting just doesn't work in modern poe
Monsters are too fast and too volatile
open nymph
add to it that most spells need at least 1 support, if not 2, to make them viable skills for clear
so you basically always need a single target setup unless you already have sick DPS
you can do some nice unleash ice spear for singletarget for example, but it cant clear for shit
burnt field
over the years they moved power from tree and gems to gear , so now you need to use a lot of currency just to avoid annoying things and make your character feel good
which is a shame
maiden anvil
Ya
Just feels like every strong item just gets nerfed lol
Skin of the lords
Diadem
dusky juniper
Like every game
Trust me I've been there
Poets pen nerf sucked; elder mod removal
I always find a new build
I'd rather that than diablo 4s play your blizzard approved build that's coming like in d3
maiden anvil
To each their own
I'm over playing Jenga and spreadsheet out shit for 30 minutes before I can play the game to then get 1 shotted by a soul eater possessed essence
dusky juniper
Blizzard
Color by numbers company
Blizz doing balance changes on d4
Giving barbs 10% damage reduction
maiden anvil
?
covert cave
Good change imo. Taking away survivability from the tree and giving a bit more base. More freedom and less being pinned into shouts
maiden anvil
I lov the movement speed while carrying stuff
quasi cairn
and the resetting cds on opening door
open nymph
Now make all mobs drop loot and not just elites, thanks
chilly hinge
Asmongold 
versed gazelle
idk never needed it in d3. visual clarity was never it's issue. if that somehow comes up in d4 i'll change my mind
i need it in poe because i can't fucking see the ground half the time
maiden anvil
Yeh
I mean the game should have it
But I got used to it in D3 because I can just see whats happening infront of me
dusky juniper
I need it in d4 because otherwise I'm tabbing open the map every 2 seconds and it's annoying
maiden anvil
I think the minimap just needs to be bigger
dusky juniper
i need it in poe because i can't fucking see the ground half the time
Did you see mathils triggerbots
Literal eye cancer
covert cave
I feel that a game that is designed to pull you forwards without feeling the need to have an overlay/opening the map every 2 seconds would be much preferable though
open nymph
then you end up with
super linear dungeon design
lots of people say they like that but like
its boring as fuck
old gorge meta in poe 
versed gazelle
Did you see mathils triggerbots
not yet but i've seen enough of his ice spear builds to get the idea
late pebble
Hmmmmm
late pebble
Yuh
That feels like a very low stat requirement though
Yeah that's a lot more,
Lol
Unique items changing spell mechanics is a very good sign imo 
pure mortar
stress test may 12-14
same old beta, but wiped characters and no increased drop chance
sand oak
is the defeating ashava reward new
open nymph
wdym
sand oak
on the graphic for the event it says u can get a cosmetic reward for defeating that big world boss
i was jw if that was there in the last beta test
idr
covert cave
That's new
Some horsie trophy that's a horn from Ashava
Also balance changes are in compared to last beta
dusky juniper
did everyone get an invite to the server slam
covert cave
Pretty sure I heard them say it was fully open, even for those without D4
open nymph
Would defeat the purpose of a stress test if it was invite only
covert cave
I would say, maybe.
Like if they only invited the thousands of players who played the most. Then it's very likely that close to 100% of them would play. So they could scale the server accordingly.
If "anyone" can play. And it turns out that only 1/5th of the amount the server was scaled for turns up. Then they really didn't get the data they wanted
dusky juniper
I dunno I got an invite
late pebble
sand oak
i got an invite
chilly hinge
I would say, maybe.
Like if they only invited the thousands of players who play...
theyre definitely inviting everyone and anyone to a stress test. data from someone whos never gonna play can help them optimize that hardware anyway. not to mention the benefits of just having as many people on as possible, right?
covert cave
theyre definitely inviting everyone and anyone to a stress test. data from someo...
My answer was just for selis comment there. In reality I assume everyone gets access
pure mortar
dusky juniper
shell prism
@maiden anvil what u thinking about the leaked uniques
maiden anvil
Where
shell prism
wudijo tweeted about them
dusky juniper
from what I read the uniques are giga low drop
maiden anvil
wudijo tweeted about them
Link?
shell prism
latent spade
Not very exciting
maiden anvil
I like some of em
open nymph
sad part is that
+4 all skills equates to 40% more damage
hard to beat
with cdr/resource cost reduction on helmet as well
maiden anvil
Those stats should be random no?
latent spade
Ye gonna need some more time in the oven
open nymph
mostly worried about endgame
their video on it didnt seem like any of them understand what expectation people have coming from games like poe or last epoch, on what endgame should be
feels like people designing d4 endgame have only look at d3 endgame and hwo to improve it, not taking any lessons from what competitor games have been doing :/
shell prism
Not very exciting
the rain of arrows one is kinda cool
and the very first one just seems like a chase item for everyone
open nymph
but yeah overall its like
"unlocks all inscriptions"
okay, theres 2
so saves you 1 passive point
just feels like a lot of the game is designed for a state where theres like 10+ core skills with multiple "runes" like in d3
but atm you only have 2
not 5 like in d3
latent spade
the rain of arrows one is kinda cool
Ye its only one that looked ight
trail wind
we will see
open nymph
id still like to play druid but
dont wanna larp as esfand so ig ill play sorc instead
open nymph
sorc specialization seems to be the most interesting one anyway
looking at the rune thingies that druids unlock in next zone, those bonuses are all kinda ass
maiden anvil
The rogue stuff is pretty insane
The rogue passives will be build defining for rogue
And playstyle defining
The maybe one is rlly nice though
latent spade
I was hoping for a death trap unique
shell prism
@latent spade https://i.imgur.com/3W4m1CB.png didnt u want a death trap unique
quasi cairn
perma death trup
open nymph
wasnt that already available in beta?
psure it was and its weird as fuck since it only re-arms if it DOESNT hit anything
dusky juniper
"sorc more fragile than other classes"
d4 developers confirmed don't play their game
maiden anvil
<@456226577798135808> https://i.imgur.com/3W4m1CB.png didnt u want a death trap ...
AYO
Lets go
latent spade
<@456226577798135808> https://i.imgur.com/3W4m1CB.png didnt u want a death trap ...
Oh ye i already saw this in datamine
But like
Thats just a weird one idk lol
open nymph
seems like a pvp one
shell prism
huh which ones a pvp one
covert cave
The one that doesn't affect players? :p
open nymph
okay thats neat
covert cave
I would love it if it just dumps you into the final town at level 1 and you have to death run back to low level areas to pick up leveling :p
open nymph
well, all the zones scale so
covert cave
Even to low levels?
open nymph
psure ye
late pebble
Yeah World tier 1 is levels 1 through 50.
late pebble
sand oak
bro is woke
chilly hinge
watching him rn and training skills in osrs 
paragons looks more interesting than i thought, i havent really seen anything till now
but not necessarily in a good way...like that dex stacking buff on a dex-lacking class?
covert cave
That has been one of the "wants" and voices in the forums though. Wanting to be able to build things the class is not intended to.
covert cave
I kind of like how a lot of damage scaling is "increased" over "more" in like just a few buckets. Will reduce a ton of the scaling problems POE has
halcyon ingot
quasi cairn
blizz said druid will be op dont worry lads
maiden anvil
late pebble
dawn dove
<a:LIVESOFBASED:1090903625775194122>
halcyon ingot
<:ALOO:1099033558691106856>
jovial knoll
any fellow sorc players on release?
shell prism
jovial knoll
might go for rogue for 2nd but i havent tried anything else yet, just found some good cheese for sorc and it lived server slam tuning so hopefully its there on live and i just zoom
hoping more legendaries get some more love too
shell prism
rogue is probably my 2nd too if i was to make one
maiden anvil
meow
covert cave
Wth. You're rogues.
shell prism
no u
dusky juniper
because it's a bad game for $100 by a company that will dump it at the first sign of trouble?
maiden anvil
Ok
late pebble
versed gazelle
dusty notch
Any barb/druid enjoyers
shell prism
seli is probably a druid enjoyer
dusty notch
most viable druid build in endgame beta at least
you did play endgame beta?
late pebble
Mmmmmm
chilly hinge
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/13skh1c/all_the_questions_in_bl...
Lmao no way
Incredible
open nymph
well its on the content creator
apparently they asked for questions to ask to blizzard but... no one responded
so they just asked all the questions themselves, made up some fake user accounts and stuff
pretty hilarious all around
dusty notch
idk, the example quin has shown is weird cus
you have a twitter account name and your own set alias
if you search for your alias, cant find you
have to search for the account name
also, people going apeshit on reddit cus some content creaters and press ppl got early early access to the full game
late pebble
And every time someone complains that someone wanted their name hidden, they become a perfect example of why someone didn't want to be known.
open nymph
And every time someone complains that someone wanted their name hidden, they bec...
then you could just put "anonymous"
instead they
added a "names have been changed to protect peoples identity" afterwards
also
Twitter
late pebble
then you could just put "anonymous"
Hey look I didn't make the video 
covert cave
Delete their knowledge too
maiden anvil
sand oak
class round up what yall playin and why
open nymph
last epoch cuz its a better game
sand oak
i fear that diablo 4 will only be like a 2 week game for me its feelin like it
open nymph
memes aside, prolly sorc cuz its the only class with interesting build potential and a well done specialization
id play druid but
sand oak
likem the vibes are not right but I will be playin it a lot until then..
open nymph
im REALLY not liking the way it looks so
gimme d2 druid and id play that in a heartbeat
trail wind
im playing sorc
sand oak
hearing lots of people playin sorc
trail wind
barb or rogue when season comes out
sand oak
never was a fan of casters in diablo 3
im more of a melee or even melee caster i dont mind
open nymph
not really liking how restricted druid is as well for elemental builds
due to lack of skills
so yeah, prolly rogue or sorc
trail wind
druid I have 0 interest in
sand oak
i think i might just go barbarian
open nymph
druid was beyond garbo in beta at least
sand oak
i fi do something new like rogue and dont like it il just drop the game fast af if i go barb itll keep me in it longer likely
open nymph
horrible to level
sand oak
i know i like barbs usually
trail wind
I suspect there will not be much to do so im picking a class thats kinda strong but I dont want to play too much either
trail wind
and there will be a bit more longetivity when the season comes out
where I want to play barb/rogue
open nymph
boner necro wasnt that good in beta, that'd be my other wish-list character
twister/firestorm druid dream is dead, sadly
trail wind
but diablo season 1 is probably around poe league
covert cave
Some melee, likely rogue for me
Melee just feels so much more engaging and immersive for me.
Will probably be sorc in S1 since it'll be OP as always and melee will somehow be prevented from pushing as high.
Or if there's some active support, perhaps that will be of interest too
tacit bone
I was playing that skill that's like ek in the beta and it was fun
Was doing like caltrops to apply debuffs and then taking the passives that make the skill explode on debuffed enimies
I had the legendary that made it fire in a circle too but that one didn't actually work
It just changed the visuals. It still only hit in a cone :P
sand oak
tryna get my raid to swap days for release
jovial knoll
they arent hopping on with you? 
oh fuck i didnt realize early access is thursday afternoon
maiden anvil
sand oak
covert cave
Wonder if there will be some decent hybrid build for Rogues. Like ranged for ST/Melee for AoE or vice verse
dusty notch
Im kinda torn between barb and druid. As of now, barb only really has WW and if they decide to nerf it its uncertain if theres something as fun
and druid has lots of fun builds
dusty notch
interesting that he skips chal shout
dusty notch
covert cave
Any end game is better than D2 though, and I played a ton of D2 :P
I really loved D3 vanilla inferno on release though. That was much fun for me. But it had so much backlash from people
tender plinth
vanilla d3 was redoing acts zones, me not fun
tender plinth
I mean, that's d2 as well :p
yes and I am not d2 fan either
covert cave
Did week 1 as barb in d3, then a few days later as DH. Was so much easier as DH :P
tender plinth
I was DH but didn't discover immunity build
without crossbow I had no damage and it costed so much gold
covert cave
Not sure if AH wasn't open, or if I just didn't interact with it at start
I did sell a ton on RMAH after that opened though :P
tender plinth
AH was absolutely not cool, idk vanilla d3 was pretty meh imo
and then it just jumped to another end of the spectrum
tender plinth
would you ever trust journalists on something like d4?
trail wind
no
tender plinth
I think they are only good for single player games like god of war
trail wind
I dont care what anyone says
I know I will play it and will do what I feel like doing
covert cave
I think no matter how bad d4 end-game turns out to be. I'm sure there's at the very least 100h playtime in it for me
trail wind
stop playing when Im not having fun
tender plinth
dungeons looks fun, guess I burn some real life currency
covert cave
even from just playing through it once on beta, the combat felt right up my alley
open nymph
would you ever trust journalists on something like d4?
i trust games journalism reviews like this: if its a 9/10 or 10/10, odds are the game is shit. if its a 6/10 or 7/10 and the main complaints are difficulty or graphics, its probably a great game
late pebble
What if it's a 10 out of 10 but the graphics are shit?
open nymph
doesnt happen
trail wind
im going to say its going to be like 6.5/10
and then in like 4 seasons it will be 8/10
covert cave
I think that certain periods will very likely be 9/10. Then you'll probably see some faults or stuff becomes repetitive or restrictive then it might fall. But for sure I'll be very engaged for a decent while
tender plinth
is this thread getting converted to a channel?
covert cave
Mh, can see what the blades want
open nymph
ye we kept it to a thread for a while cuz it was just some rumours here or there
but psure it makes sense to have a full blown channel on release
dusty notch
u guys playing hc or sc
sand oak
sc
jovial knoll
sc
tender plinth
better question - is there going to be discord voice chat party during launch
dusty notch
isnt it like 2 or 3am for you
tender plinth
and?
dusty notch
just wondering, idk if you got work or anything
tender plinth
that doesn't forbid me from playing video games
late pebble
Truuueeeeeeee
tender plinth
I have work, I do nothing and get paid
open nymph
I have work, I do nothing and get paid
thats not work, thats earning money
tender plinth
work is essentially a transaction where I exchange time for money
late pebble
Heh
trail wind
anyone who says excellent endgame I dont believe
tender plinth
yeah I see big sus
depends on how they evaluate tho
it's an excellent for the very beginning of the next arpg game? or excellent compared to other competitors? I can see them evaluating it through lens of newly released title, as it should, then it might be true
trail wind
people forget how long it took poe
tender plinth
poe started having pog endgame with 3rd evolution of leagues, right?
which is breach
at least I think it's around that time, they also were figuring out release schedule and such
tender plinth
afaik the very first poe league was onslaught, which literally just put the buff on monsters
covert cave
I kinda don't enjoy how I play PoE nowadays. You just oneshot stuff at 1000% ms and do the same specific content over and over.
Had f.ex the feared been good, then that I guess would be a decent gameplay loop
I think forcing the player to swap dungeons is quite a good thing
PoE in SSF is great however. Since things that drop is actually content, and not just currency
tender plinth
going fast is fun, exploding screens is fun
but it does kill monsters and playing rares, it's all mostly just dolls
covert cave
Like sure. But it's very easy and very non-interactive and very repetitive.
The enjoyment doesn't really come from actually doing the content, but from rewards
tender plinth
I mean arpg isn't about innate difficulty
every map isn't wow raid boss
idk about non interactive, depends on the content you are doing
trail wind
I like the challenge of making a character strong enough to not care about as many things as possible while killing fast
covert cave
I feel d3 had was repetitive. However there I felt that you actually interacted with the combat and enemies in greater rifts
tender plinth
and repetative.... that's just again arpg?
covert cave
yeah PoE TC is a ton of fun
But in D3, moment to moment combat doesn't feel repetitive
tender plinth
depends how you do poe as well, can force one map and kinda do the same but switch starts or do different tiles if you feel like doing it
covert cave
in poe moment to moment combat does
tender plinth
there are some variations but it's not enough, I'd agree
game is too fast for bestiary's identity to manifest during gameplay
tender plinth
basically you only notice corrupted blood rares, some on death effects, maybe goatmen
but other than that most mobs are dolls or list of affixes
okay you notice some cycling red, soul eater, but it's again rares 🙂
poe has to slow down in order to have more varied combat but I doubt it can at this point
also it might just be impossible due to mechanics layering
no way would I be able to actually play mobs mechanics from legion inside breach zone under delirium. no matter how slowed the game is all of those types of monsters/mechanics being on the screen + my own skills is just too much visual vomit on the screen
tender plinth
So to sum it up, you can purchase the game, however your friend won't be able to play the game.
covert cave
PoE has this insane exponential scaling too. I think the buckets in D4 will help reign that in a lot
covert cave
I do hope they kinda skip followers
dusty notch
I doubt there will be any
jovial knoll
seems like a lot of these new NDA-freed reviews are saying the endgame is good but I also have 0 faith that any of them know what a good endgame is
dusty notch
i think it will be fine
maiden anvil
I'm watching quin get really upset at these numbers from these 100 nightmare dungeon clears
I wonder what number would look like in PoE if PoE had damage numbers
dusty notch
why he upset about a number or numbers in general
dusty notch
they could replace dmg numbers with fat tigers and it would be the same 
maiden anvil
His issue is that theres too many damage multipliers in the game (already)
pure mortar
did you also type "why are they upset about a font" at one point
tender plinth
I wonder what number would look like in PoE if PoE had damage numbers
exactly
people are so focused on 100mil hits while in poe my char deals 20 mil per proj and my screen would just be flooded with high numbers
but yeah, let's whine
I would just disable combat text prob, don't really see how it helps
maiden anvil
Yeh
tender plinth
also I can guarantee quin didn't even think that he has 3-5 pure multipliers from support gems on his skill because it's kinda "invisible" in poe
open nymph
His issue is that theres too many damage multipliers in the game (already)
i think thats a valid concern in d4 tho
or has been in d3
its easier to understand how multiple versions of 20 or 25 or30% more multipliers will affect your character
than trying to compare a 1000% to skill X or 750% to skill Y
obviously pob helps a lot with that
and d4 doesnt have ridiculous numbers like that (yet)
maiden anvil
I mean isn't this the same shit that exists in PoE, except poe doesn't have damage numbers so you can't actually see how absurd the numbers your character is spitting out
tender plinth
I think quin means not raw tooltip numbers but number of multipliers
tender plinth
i.e. damage formula being 25 different coefficients
open nymph
the damage numbers just showcase how stupid it is, but his main concern is valid, especially based off of d3 game and item design
maiden anvil
He means the actual numbers AND the amount of multipliers
tender plinth
but really if you think about poe it has like 15 coeffs as well
maiden anvil
He said on stream "Why the fuck are they hitting for 7m bro"
open nymph
well obviously worrying about the damage text is silly, so id rather focus on the valid concern of dmg multipliers being a problem
it would be a problem in poe too
if oyu have a skill that does
2k base dmg
tender plinth
I think their buckets pretty much cover roughly as many "buckets" as poe has for example