that is the blizz way
#tc-subtlety
ivory kestrel
past fable
The rupture proc is silly tbh, it incentivizes dumb shit like using rupture during all of your cooldowns for a gamba proc
Really great for variance 
coarse laurel
I'm still not totally sure I understand the calculation though looking at your logs from the other day
e.g.
11360 damage over the 8 ticks, full DoT seems like it's 42230 damage based on an initial tick of 4223 (reversing the crit) * 10 ticks (faded at 57s)
So that's like 26.9%? (25% maybe ignoring the partial tick?)
Unless I'm missing something
past fable
Its a 1 CP rupture so theres only 4 ticks (or well 4+partial) and it doesnt count the crits so its '4x4224+3759=20655' for the rupture damage.
Then its 8 ticks of 2p for '1420x8=11352' (again not factoring in the crits)
coarse laurel
Ah I see, I didn't realize you cast refreshed it there
Basically rolling with this currently
// Takes the entire remaining DoT damage as if it were dealt instantly with the current state
double damage_amount = calculate_tick_amount( dot->state, 1.0 );
damage_amount *= ( dot->remains() / tick_time( dot->state ) );
// Stretch the damage across the total ticks used for the DoT then apply the set bonus multiplier
double num_ticks = shadow_rupture_attack->composite_dot_duration( state ) / shadow_rupture_attack->tick_time( state );
damage_amount *= ( 1.0 / num_ticks );
damage_amount *= p()->set_bonuses.t31_subtlety_2pc->effectN( 1 ).percent();
shadow_rupture_attack->base_td = damage_amount;
past fable
I dont think thats includes there but i thought id mention that the shadow rupture doesnt double dip on amps like dance. Using any amp after the proc has already gone out has no effect on the shadow rupture dot
coarse laurel
I'm clearing out the update_flags and doing a snapshot here
Although technically it's really not affected by anything
Since it's not in any whitelists
past fable
6% is roughly what weve seen in testing so that seems pretty good
past fable
Since it's not in any whitelists
Ye i would assume so but just mentioned it to double check
coarse laurel
Does it snapshot the tick rate? Does it ever get a partial tick due to haste changes?
Actually I guess it doesn't have the haste periodic flag anyway nm
Crit should update though I assume
past fable
It doesnt consider the crit at all for from the rupture it just has its own crit chance when it ticks
coarse laurel
That's what I mean, it's not part of the snapshot since it seems like it crits dynamically
past fable
Ye
Also did you add the whitelist for the amps for the evis? 50% of the what the average evis does seems a bit low.
Or i guess maybe the talent setup you run doesnt have em
coarse laurel
// Damage is residual at the time of cast, benefitting from Dark Brew and Deeper Daggers
double damage_amount = state->result_amount * p()->set_bonuses.t31_subtlety_2pc->effectN( 1 ).percent();
damage_amount *= 1.0 + p()->talent.subtlety.dark_brew->effectN( 4 ).percent();
damage_amount *= 1.0 + p()->buffs.deeper_daggers->stack_value();
shadow_eviscerate_attack->base_dd_min = shadow_eviscerate_attack->base_dd_max = damage_amount;
Is what I'm doing atm
This build does have both so idk
Could just be variance, one sec
Think I know why.. annoying. Will have to look into this some more
@past fable another question... looks like Shadow Powder has the Can't Crit flag. What target damage does it use for the result? (e.g. if Black Powder crits on Target N, how does that damage get turned into residual?)
past fable
<@212854714197344256> another question... looks like Shadow Powder has the Can't...
Not entirely sure and not at my computer, maybe @turbid pulsar or @remote sparrow could check?
turbid pulsar
what do i need to check?
remote sparrow
Not at the computer, last I checked it does damage based on the overall damage done by BP. So if u hit 1 target with bp for 20 damage, But the clone gets summoned near 2 targets, it does 10+amps damage to both.
Idk about the other way around tho
turbid pulsar
i have a log from like an hour ago if you want koji
coarse laurel
Basically just curious how the Black Powder -> Shadow Powder damage calculation works when it has different results across multiple targets
turbid pulsar
coarse laurel
Does it ignore the Crit results? Use Crit results from the primary target? Just take the total amount across all targets and average it?
Hmm
coarse laurel
Doesn't seem like that's averaged across, even if it didn't crit on one target that should bring it down a lot
I just have all of these filtered
Or I think I pinned all the events from you and are just clicked into the Soul damage
So... I think it must just use the result from your currently selected target?
Definitely isn't averaging
turbid pulsar
Or I think I pinned all the events from you and are just clicked into the Soul d...
ic, ty
coarse laurel
00:25.036 Stealthi Melee Training Dummy 3 2255
At this point you're targeting Dummy 3 I guess
Isn't just the first result in the list, so that's interesting
past fable
And If theres one where it crits on your main target it will just do 65% of that to all other enemies too?
turbid pulsar
i can run a quick test if you want koji where i only target 1 dummy the entire time
coarse laurel
And If theres one where it crits on your main target it will just do 65% of that...
Seems to be the case in my upper example
turbid pulsar
what would then happen if i have no target?
coarse laurel
Pretty sure you'll always get a target when you cast BP won't you? Unless you use a mouseover macro.
Would assume it's the first hit in that case
But worth testing lol
Could be broken 😄
Also, good luck to whoever has to try to make these combo point procs happen when they are apparently supposed to happen (really early) even though the damage calculations are apparently super deferred to the impacts... lol
Annoying enough in SimC when I can do whatever I want
turbid pulsar
Pretty sure you'll always get a target when you cast BP won't you? Unless you us...
nah you dont, Storm does tho it auto gives you a target
coarse laurel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mxMd6R4qVwrZHC9Y#fight=last&type=damage-don...
I see no rhyme or reason here
It's clearly picking a target but doesn't really seem to be consistent with Dummy 3 if you are never swapping off it
turbid pulsar
yeah i never swapped target
turbid pulsar
nice
coarse laurel
Let me know if you see anything broken
Ah, found a problem with the 4pc CP gen though.. need to change something
Ok that should be better
mental dirge
remote sparrow
I reran the above builds with t31 tierset included:
subtelty baseline is the sepsis rotten build
rotten over db is the suggested M+ build but takes roten and shadowcraft voer db and one point of finality
these are 5 min single target builds
no dust is the basic db dd shadowcraft goremaw
hmm this looks really weird
remote sparrow
sorry that was for dungeon slice.
this looks like ST.
interesting that the 1 dust build is very close ST but also very good aoe
past fable
Non dust APL is doing some funky things, i tracked down one improvement i feel is pretty straightforward. This is the current flag line
actions.cds+=/flagellation,target_if=max:target.time_to_die,if=variable.snd_condition&combo_points>=5&target.time_to_die>10&cooldown.shadow_blades.up
So it wont cast flag unless blades is ready, and it wont cast blades unless flag is up, which sometimes leads to the whole burst window being delayed by like 5 seconds because it finishes right before blades is ready so it doesnt have the CP required to flag. I instead propose we add an extra check to see if blades comes up very shortly it can still flag, something like this:
(cooldown.shadow_blades.up|cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<4) instead of just cooldown.shadow_blades.up
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1TjeJBt6wANWxaEP6cXXmy
Now it uses it closer to the 2 min mark when its actually ready than delaying it like 5-10 seconds everytime. The difference is way more noticeable when using a tinket like embersoul though
rugged solar
nice
past fable
100k iterations checking if 4 was the best number for it
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7KohwUuBKtBM6Py65s5ZLv
past fable
I might have done it wrong but i didnt find tying it to sectech to be worth it
Just blades* in general seemed better
Nor tying it to tornado
ivory kestrel
it is more of a sec tech goremaw sepsis pop thing so it has all of those +1 finisher in the first 3 secs
ivory kestrel
mirror and new emberbloom one seem good
embersoul has its nifty things
i do think that may come later
narrow leaf
AM i right in saying they stopper VT working with trinkets?
Cause i swear the pips's trinket works with it
Bandolier of blades sorry
narrow leaf
I just did 3 casts nothing else with and without VT and it crit twice hit one with VT and crit all with out VT and Vt damage for like 10 more
very small sample i know
but feels like it's doing something
rugged solar
rugged solar
Non dust APL is doing some funky things, i tracked down one improvement i feel i...
(cooldown.shadow_blades.up|cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<4) is equivalent to
cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<4 because remains will be 0 if its up.
also currently modifying/testing
rugged solar
alright, latest apl iteration
rugged solar
alright, latest apl iteration
rugged solar
alright, latest apl iteration
^ incorporates a refined version of eleems changes
past fable
`(cooldown.shadow_blades.up|cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<4)` is equivalent to ...
Duh, i didnt even consider this lmao 
narrow leaf
Confirmed that trinket is dog, dunno why the sim like it so much
past fable
^ incorporates a refined version of eleems changes
Even the new APL sometimes delayed it for a bit and i think i found the reason why. Here is the shadow blades line
actions.cds+=/shadow_blades,if=variable.snd_condition&combo_points<=1&(buff.flagellation_buff.up|!talent.flagellation)
Notably it has the "dont use unless you have low cp" built into it. This means that it would sometimes end up casting flag > finisher > proc 2p > NOT use blades because it has more than 1 cp > weaksauce backstab its way up to another builder and pray it didnt proc the 2p again. Just removing that part of the blades line shows a very chunky increase for non-dust, but a sizeable one for dust too
Dust (the 134.5k) https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b4RmD7LZ1VYFRCfZUiBWha
No-Dust (the 130k) https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5jxFxytrzrBpofJHNA95N3
Sidenote: actions.cds+=/use_item,name=ashes_of_the_embersoul,use_off_gcd=1,if=buff.shadow_blades.up&buff.shadow_dance.up&(combo_points.deficit==0) is what ive found to be the best performing ashes line so far (building onto what armin posted a few days ago). Even if its not the most optimal thing we should probably have some line for it in the profile
remote sparrow
nice find!
have you btw tried optimizing for shadowcraft yet? i tried some ideas but coudlnt get them to work really
past fable
Nah for now im mostly looking for how to make the actual blades window better (or well, in this case using it more often)
remote sparrow
I see, i did some quick napkin math and it seems like with tornado your blades can be a 13-7 finisher/builder every time
assuming tier fix comes in
remote sparrow
dropping the blades cp condition as Eleem suggested actually brings the build a bit closer to each other.
the 1 dust build is very close to the fll st build while being quite a bit ahead of every other build in dslice
this is the 1 dust build
runs db and finality so has quite a bit better AOE
also it plays very similar to a normal 2 minute build, so works pretty well with 2 minute trinkets
rugged solar
Even the new APL sometimes delayed it for a bit and i think i found the reason w...
good find, seems to only apply to t31 4p
past fable
good find, seems to only apply to t31 4p
Well ye without the 2p you wouldnt get the combo points refunded like that preventing it
rugged solar
haha yes, but you need the 2p to get the 4p
i just realized that you can, in theory have a build without shadowblades
but there is no reason to ever play that, there is literally no upside to it
past fable
i just realized that you can, in theory have a build without shadowblades
Ye i dont feel like spending time optimizing that apl is a worthwhile endeavour
Another thing i noticed the apl (no dust) doing that seems wrong is going blades >dance>vanish>vanish>last dance like half outside blades.
I feel like the correct sequence is to dance>vanish>dance to make sure you get a second sectech of during dance but for some reason im too dense to get the apl to do this
ivory kestrel
putting a sec tech condition should work kinda
with cd check <15 or so should work might do 10 or so
mental dirge
Has anyone tried a condition that makes it okay to sit on 2 charges if dance if blades has X seconds remaining on cd
rugged solar
i tried early on and it was a loss, but we had quite some apl changes now
mental dirge
Try it on something with no dust or tornado
rugged solar
optimized mirror_of_fractured_tomorrows and ashes_of_the_embersoul for single target and dungeon slice:
rugged solar
Even the new APL sometimes delayed it for a bit and i think i found the reason w...
^ so builds on this
rugged solar
Another thing i noticed the apl (no dust) doing that seems wrong is going blades...
too bad, seems like the updated condition also works well for dust ^^
rugged solar
too bad, seems like the updated condition also works well for dust ^^
just to clarify, i had the trinket lines already done earlier, i am not this fast with evaluating multiple builds, apl lines etc.
(i wish i am, but at least with this two changes i can make the illusion that i can do 2 apl chanegs in 20 minutes -- actually 3)
i did test to align trinkets by default to symbols, but even with PE it was within target error
so not rly worth it to change the dondition
rugged solar
have you btw tried optimizing for shadowcraft yet? i tried some ideas but coudln...
i tried to change tornado, but found nothing
changing symbols would be possible, but i am not sure if there is a lot of "optimzation"
the 7+ cp expel does already fix a lot of edge cases
mental dirge
Does sim still use tornado in dance 
rugged solar
yes, and enforcing tornado before dance was also not a gain
but the opener is typcially tornado into dance
turbid pulsar
in a regular build if you were to sync SoD+dance
and have it use tornado on cd
it should always be out of dance
as in tornado into dance each time
rugged solar
regular build is non dust or dust?
mental dirge
yes, and enforcing tornado before dance was also not a gain
Can you send a sim of that
rugged solar
must be in there somewhere
XD
(i don't have them anyome, i did run way to many sims after it)
past fable
Here is a profile of T31 gear with the best siming trinkets equipped and a decent stat spread we can use until @rugged solar does his big automated combination sims. Signet+Bandolier sims the highest for dust variants and Signet+Ashes sims the highest for non-dust so ive included it as a comment
Maybe there are other embellishments/setups for it that are better, but im assuming theyll tune em more so i dont think its worth spending time on yet.
rugged solar
possible ^^
past fable
Since imo it would be very odd if sporecloak gave like 50% more stats than the other stat embellishments ontop of its defensive effect 
mental dirge
I mean currently most classes just use some form of toxic dmg proc item + patch and its best by a good margin 
Dmg is king for most
past fable
I mean currently most classes just use some form of toxic dmg proc item + patch ...
Well yes, but theyre nerfed by 35% on the ptr
ivory kestrel
yea in my video i also explained the sporecloak and other things
that for some reason it has that much extra
when in live it is like +100 vers in ptr it is 400?¿?¿
ivory kestrel
ye until we get the new ones implemented/we can actually try them
rugged solar
unless the new embellishment is good
ivory kestrel
the proc one has promise but idk
mental dirge
Well yes, but theyre nerfed by 35% on the ptr
Yes good fuck em
ivory kestrel
the crit one seems baiter tho
yea good riddance to the dmg yank
if only it didnt have the cd when you fall below 70
remote sparrow
unless the new embellishment is good
I think Yoda tried it and said it's quite bad not sure tho.
past fable
Craft them i assume
ivory kestrel
yea but where can you get the recipe
remote sparrow
Yeah he said the random stat one is bad
ivory kestrel
that is weird from data it seems good
dont tell me we deadass have to kill the boss to get the drop XD
remote sparrow
LOL
mental dirge
dont tell me we deadass have to kill the boss to get the drop XD
Item off tauren
Will teach you all recipes n shit
ivory kestrel
oh interesting last sunday it was not there will check it later and see
balmy linden
Wait are we going to be dust gamers this tier?
remote sparrow
the changes are in 'latest' i thnk
goremaw isnt shadow in sims i think. dont think its interacting with the sadow talents
past fable
goremaw isnt shadow in sims i think. dont think its interacting with the sadow t...
It just doesnt do much damage
remote sparrow
oh wow interesting, It was showing it as physical so I thought it wasnt treating it as shadow. this ability really really sucks huh
ivory kestrel
it is krangling it might need some checking yea
it does around 3.x-5% if you SoD/PV it well i think uh
remote sparrow
it loses like 1 cast on average
but idk, theres no way you can make this thing good. when its 1% with all the shadow buffs.
ivory kestrel
i mean both it and sepsis need some serious work they are doing like 2x or 3x less dmg than intended weirdly
also maybe change the gearing a bit but tbh first i want to check more ER things as the sepsis/PV/SoD/goremaw things will get ironed eventually anyway
i think the tornado placement and vanish need a bit of a change with goremaw
rugged solar
i mean both it and sepsis need some serious work they are doing like 2x or 3x le...
possible, i tried some apl chanegs after koji implemented it
but didn't find a win on it
ivory kestrel
dont worry about it right now tbh i still expect a bit more of a talent shuffle
like how they buffed shadowed
maybe they just murder rotten for good
rugged solar
nothing that changed rly effected talent evaluation
ivory kestrel
like i did so many tries and sepsis was always from 6-9% and goremaw 3-6% in dummy so in raid it might be a bit diff but not MUCH then you have blades
so this weekend might look at other things also that was with a 100%+ mastery build
with more vers heavy should be way better
remote sparrow
well is not free, if you force pv and rotten on sepsis, youre gonna lose out on other things. The sim can force it on sepsis, it just doesnt seem to be a gain
ivory kestrel
the problem is it krangled cds overall and SoD too
and tornado messed up some finishers
using snd in dance etc
i mean not saying the gains will be massive just need to check things and we'll see
remote sparrow
I tried forcing it to only enter dance when pv is up, and it was neutral
past fable
Did you do it after the fixes or before
remote sparrow
not sure, this was a few days ago, when was the fix?
past fable
With the tier
remote sparrow
we could retry it to see if its a gain to play around pv for pv builds
past fable
This is so dumb, i just removed all of the energy constrains on it so it basically uses it on cd
ivory kestrel
yea like i told it was losing casts and also no SoD/PV correctly but hey baby steps
cant really check things well until friday but there are wins to be had
past fable
Its still terrible, or well maybe not terrible
But like almost a full percent behind sepsis, and sepsis isnt doing that much to begin with either
remote sparrow
hmm how are u getting 211k? my no dust is around 209k
its about 1.4% better without energy conditions as you fund out though
past fable
Swapped some gear around, it doesnt matter much though
rugged solar
This is so dumb, i just removed all of the energy constrains on it so it basical...
with or without dust?
past fable
Ye i figured
rugged solar
but good find
past fable
To be more precise it was actions.cds+=/goremaws_bite,if=combo_points.deficit>=3&!stealthed.all not sure why the "!stealthed.all" sims better than just not stealthed+not subterfuge
Since i assume stealth.all includes dance
rugged solar
it should yes
past fable
Most of the gain is from it using goremaw 6.7 times rather than like 5.2 times, the value of the stronger strike just seems to outvalue the energy part
rugged solar
the energy condition initially did win out against not using it
but if its irrelevant now, thats better
easier to play
seems to be the same with dust
(dust)
sim
this is interessting (non dust)
sim
test 1 = enable the stealthed condition globally
test 2 = enable the stealthed condition + remove energy
test 3= disable stealthed condition + remove energy```Sepsis def seems to be better than inev now for dust btw (swift also slightly better than premed, but not as important)
past fable
```yaml
test 1 = enable the stealthed condition globally
test 2 = enable the ste...
Hmm, odd
ivory kestrel
yea with swift death+dust for ex in 5:30 min i cast goremaw 9 times
also swift has this sync helps with vanish and other things that avoids some krangling
rugged solar
Sepsis def seems to be better than inev now for dust btw (swift also slightly be...
inev was only better with old tier iirc
past fable
Ah i c, makes sense
ivory kestrel
also things like this
when you cant game PV but yea you might want to game it anyway if you can
rugged solar
Hmm, odd
what talent combo did you use so i can check it with that
seems like 
still has some juice we can get
past fable
Just the default non-dust but with gore instead of sepsis
rugged solar
ahh
i did change shadowcraft to gwb
I assume ER is also something you can do some trickery around
ivory kestrel
yea for sure
rugged solar
the sht logic is still from before the change
ivory kestrel
this friday i will see to it
rugged solar
and might need some change
ivory kestrel
you can game shadowcraft a little with it
to get 3 finishers
in a row quite consistently
past fable
That is the same thing i used
rugged solar
strange
past fable
Ye idk same as the stealthed.all thing shouldnt be siming higher than just not in stealth/subterfuge as it consistently delays goremaw to not get it inside dances
rugged solar
moment, ill re-check if my copy/paste was correct
i think i made a mistake somewhere
ill just re-do
ill change talents to two setups, one dust one non dust
moment
Dust seemingly would just want to fire it:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eyHLgHpqotzbWWzFDaBAAt
interestingly enough, that seems fine for non dust too:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3ciqjk3P7iL45JLAHiYEsv
(on cd still has the combo point condition)
rugged solar
so tl;dr
seems like it is a simple change
- actions.cds+=/goremaws_bite,if=cooldown.thistle_tea.charges_fractional<=2.75&energy.deficit>=50&combo_points.deficit>=3
+ actions.cds+=/goremaws_bite,if=combo_points.deficit>=3
haven't found a bad case
past fable
Do you know how simc handles stuff like blue silken lining? If i set it to 50% does it just randomly turn on/off the buff during the fight to a total of 50% uptime?
rugged solar
yes, kind of
it has a certain probability to fall off to get the specific downtime iirc
latest apl + profile
rugged solar
latest apl + profile
past fable
it has a certain probability to fall off to get the specific downtime iirc
I see, either way it definitely doesnt look like we will be using the slime boots
ivory kestrel
they got their head slammed
so yea i didnt remember linen tbh but seems quite solid
rugged solar
boots are dead
ivory kestrel
i had hopes for the proc one but maybe it just got low tuning rn
ivory kestrel
i still have to check power on the proc new one with more people
but dont think it'll get way more powerful
vital zenith
because of the range issues it causes
not just range issue, you can also break cc by accident
coarse laurel
goremaw isnt shadow in sims i think. dont think its interacting with the sadow t...
Shows as physical because the damage is in a sub-spell for some reason
Doesn't change how it works though
ivory kestrel
yea the lists are correct for the buffs last time i checked
DD VT and DB should apply iirc
but can't check because ptr is donezo rn i think
past fable
Ye it def works, just shows up wrong
past fable
Found a very small gain for sepsis to use it with blades instead of on CD, but this only applies for non-dust. I think its mostly due to getting the last pop of during ashes (as well as all other cds, but it was ~0.3% worse than baseline apl for dust, and the main difference is ashes). It also makes burst sequences the same every time like this:
0 cp > Sepsis > Shadowstrike > Flag > rupture > blades & go
But im sure you could optimize it way more, sepsis line looks very barebones as is (assuming it even stays in, but non-tuning changes seem unlikely now imo )
&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<=3 tossed at the end of it, just like with flag
remote sparrow
I'll try some sepsis optimizations with Pv/Rotten today
ivory kestrel
yea sepsis is quite basic rn
you can look at logs i did although i used mirror first i think snapping ashes for last 3 secs is good
remote sparrow
`&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains<=3` tossed at the end of it, just like with fla...
have you tried forcing it when buff.shadow_blades.up?
past fable
have you tried forcing it when buff.shadow_blades.up?
I didnt but that sounds worse to me
remote sparrow
or buff.shadow_blades.remains>=18
past fable
Since it doesnt give full cp
ivory kestrel
i explain it on the video i did but if sepsis cps get fixed it is quite cool
past fable
And you mostly want the pop inside anyway
remote sparrow
oh right yea...
ivory kestrel
using ashes as sec tech copies will hit
can even delay sec tech 1 more finisher and still fit
may be better actually as sec tech would get a 6% extra just this secuence also works without blades so i got used to it
coarse laurel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tG7HQ2FAmqBbVRpD#fight=14&type=damage-done
ngl, this damage breakdown makes me lol... kinda sad seeing 44 Backstab globals only doing 2.8%.
AAs actually doing double Backstab damage and generating 40% more CPs than Backstab is some hilarious wet-noodling
rugged solar
Found a very small gain for sepsis to use it with blades instead of on CD, but t...
nice
ivory kestrel
ptr lag sometimes made me mess up PV
coarse laurel
I've seen similar in my recent sims anyway, Going Backstab is like... really such a horrific GCD vs. damage ratio
ivory kestrel
worst is when you have to mentally enable to use SoD on cd if outside dance
coarse laurel
We've gone full Demon's Bite
ivory kestrel
so it lines up for next one sometimes
because of dust cadence
and you SoD and use rotten on 2 backstabs
KEKW
past fable
ngl, this damage breakdown makes me lol... kinda sad seeing 44 Backstab globals ...
SHT = Demon blades
Backstab = Demon's Bite
rugged solar
ngl, this damage breakdown makes me lol... kinda sad seeing 44 Backstab globals ...
i saw a lot of ppl still assume its good to use for stacks
of DM
had some discussions in dm about it
ivory kestrel
actually i think backstab for stacks is kinda dead on my tests using it to get the 4th stack for goremaw was a bit of a win but not huge
would not be surprised if it was like a 0,x% upgrade
rugged solar
it was dead when i tested it
gloomblade was in best case damage neutral
or within error range
ivory kestrel
just because it makes strike/evis etc hit harder but you lose SO much dmg
and strike got buffed again
ivory kestrel
same as storm
tbh tornado not giving 1 DM stack is sadge
but let's not pile on more buffs/bugs on tornado
rugged solar
what can be done now is
wave in er/gwb into dance
but even then, oppotunity cost is a thing
coarse laurel
SHT = Demon blades
Backstab = Demon's Bite
lol true that
Rogues are OP because they can have both at the same time!111
rugged solar
are those dh abilities ?
coarse laurel
Yes
Demon's Bite is the baseline generator for DH that has always hit for absolutely nothing and just there to gen Fury
Demon Blades replaces Demon's Bite and is passive gen on AAs
Demon's Bite has always been one of the worst GCDs to press in the entire history of WoW, but current Backstab may be giving it a run for its money 😄
ivory kestrel
yea demon's bite was the button you dreaded to use since legion
basically that is why ring was so good
rugged solar
i don't mind backstab as a bad button
it was during legion/bfa and sl
DF did replace it with GB and made it actually hit harder than strike
but storm and bs are both noodle now
remote sparrow
oh, so they re-used some ideas there
but wasnt Realz's intention to starve the spec of resources, but make globals matter more? we're kinda in the opposite where we have infinite energy almost, and the globals outside of dance are more irelevant than ever.
ivory kestrel
energy is only quite a plenty on dance i think
rugged solar
i think dust was not considered
shadowcraft + dust increase energy by a lot
apm go down btw.
lets quickly compare
remote sparrow
its blades too. during blades youre basically free from any resource constraint
you only have gcds and nothing else
ivory kestrel
cant check ptr but new notes
rotund flint
thats why they buffed evis hehe
remote sparrow
unironically the class just got more boring lmfao
rugged solar
nope, still down
rotund flint
rugged solar
yes, we saw
ivory kestrel
oh boi we will have to use 2 backstabs between dances to get another sec tech
rugged solar
ill restart the client
ivory kestrel
no you want to vanish after second dance to get cdr not krangled on SoD/goremaw
and another 2 sec techs not krangled too
remote sparrow
im not playing goremaw unless they buff it by 300%
past fable
Gonna be great when its not worth to use tornado in blades on like 4 targets
ivory kestrel
tornado still fine just will be way weaker just not an st thing i think
remote sparrow
we are down to like 4 interesting talents now
coarse laurel
thats a solid 10+ decrease
APM is lower but CP gen is higher so it doesn't really matter
rugged solar
i guess in terms of feel
coarse laurel
Just means less Gloomblade spam
mystic sequoia
I find it amazing that they increased Exhilarating Execution from 3% to 5%.
They could buff it to 20% without it being half as strong as any other recovery talent.
Especially when it comes to leveling
past fable
I find it amazing that they increased Exhilarating Execution from 3% to 5%.
They...
Its actually insane on aoe
Already
ivory kestrel
yea shield is waooo
remote sparrow
^ yeah its great in aoe
rugged solar
its rly good in m+ ye
remote sparrow
awful in st
ivory kestrel
it regening from ruptures
is craaazy
it is like having lifeblooms on you 100%
uptime
coarse laurel
I think the APM is being skewed a little though in the live one by things that don't matter
Bomb Dispenser counts as APM since it's activated
coarse laurel
Waiting time is increasing but I don't think it's by quite that much
rugged solar
does the SoD from tier count as a press?
shouldn't
coarse laurel
It's 12% waiting instead of 3% waiting
Notable but 12% waiting isn't exactly slow either lol
It's still a 60 APM spec
ivory kestrel
i mean i like ptr sub a lot
rugged solar
i do think they don't want specs to feel extremely slow
rugged solar
so it makes sense that apm will end up in 50-60 area
coarse laurel
I just find it a little amusing that the PTR overview for sub mentioned resource overflow
But in a raw sense Energy gen is the same and CP gen is higher on PTR
past fable
Well thats the case with assa too
ivory kestrel
we just have so many energy for dance things
rugged solar
i think i mentioned that at some point
ivory kestrel
goremaw/finishers extra cp from everywhere
past fable
"too many resources" so heres some more resources
coarse laurel
Also Dance uptime is higher even though they called that out as an issue too
rugged solar
it is just that cp generation shifted
coarse laurel
Because more CP is more Dance uptime
rugged solar
shb is basically a cp steroid
mystic sequoia
Well costs did increase some
coarse laurel
Ultimately I think the set bonus sabotaged any attempts they were making to slow down the spec lol
rugged solar
+1
mystic sequoia
I agree, that is such a disconnect
coarse laurel
It's basically almost 16% of the total CP gen atm
Take that away and it would be a lot slower for sure
ivory kestrel
correct tier set 2p is quite strong
and when sht fix etc is in if it is now
you will notice FAST
rugged solar
Take that away and it would be a lot slower for sure
well we won't have tier week one
armin mentioned the cp from tier being instant now
coarse laurel
That is how I implemented it in sims currently
mystic sequoia
Isn't catalyst out from raid day 1 now?
ivory kestrel
really that is a huge bug fix for shadowcraft testing
rugged solar
perfect
coarse laurel
and when sht fix etc is in if it is now
What fix do you mean?
past fable
Isn't catalyst out from raid day 1 now?
Yes, but it takes 2 weeks for a charge instead of 1
coarse laurel
You mean the instant tier proc that is?
ivory kestrel
correct
ivory kestrel
it also makes testing ER and shadowcraft way more doable
as those are quite sht/combo point sensitive
mystic sequoia
Sure. But getting 3 pieces even if you don't do a lot of splits seems to be rather expected.
Especially considering all raid items are higher ilvl now so less damaging to have lower ilvl items
Now not saying 2/2 won't be strong. But I'm sure that anyone who progress will have 4 set for the vast majority of progress no matter the speed they clear it at
So most progress will be done with the enhanced cp gen
ivory kestrel
2p2p will be shortlived for sure
rugged solar
the wfr iirc will be able to get 4p first week
ivory kestrel
stealthi did say they will force 4p on all dps
and they are not super sweaty
by week 2 you should have it
taking in mind you can explout lfr
mystic sequoia
I mean world firsts already have 4p first week.
Now you just need 3p which is a lot easier than 4p
ivory kestrel
ye that helps too
mystic sequoia
And also well you get one "free" from last boss
And depending on tuning, getting the one free on each raid member lacking from the m+ achievement is also perhaps not impossible
rugged solar
tornado does get the damage from blades
rugged solar
And depending on tuning, getting the one free on each raid member lacking from t...
iirc last boss and mythic plus is the same
if it works like this tier
mystic sequoia
I meant the omnitoken that drops 1 per raid as extra loot from last boss
I can't recall the name of it
Not from the achievement
rugged solar
@coarse laurel i assume the tornado change does require manual code changes?
remote sparrow
Because more CP is more Dance uptime
not sure how, deepening is 0.5 vs 0.7 on live
ivory kestrel
tornado things and dust likely
rugged solar
I meant the omnitoken that drops 1 per raid as extra loot from last boss
oh yes, but its limited
ivory kestrel
but tornado just died
rugged solar
so you only get 1 or two omni tokens and now one per person
remote sparrow
its actually so gross because tornado died and we have nothing to take isntead of it
like everything is so garbage
rugged solar
wdym
ivory kestrel
yea like i told on ptr sub channel
we may use it anyway
because of energy/cp econ
and dmg for 60 energy is also not bad
ivory kestrel
well it is vs vt so who knows
rugged solar
*sim
mystic sequoia
Assassination
Leeching Poison now grants 10% Leech (was 5%). Does not apply in PvP combat.
ivory kestrel
yea i mean won't be a hard thing to test
remote sparrow
like the choice was nado vs vt vs sf vs gb.
mystic sequoia
Oh, well that's a good thing
remote sparrow
not sure theres any choice there
ivory kestrel
it was vs vt only because you need to go down
remote sparrow
I guess.
ivory kestrel
although yea sf and gb/tfd if you dont go swift too
but swift i think for dust at least is quite bae
coarse laurel
<@116203458129821697> i assume the tornado change does require manual code chang...
What changed with it?
rugged solar
tornado ticks now don't work with shadowblaes
remote sparrow
no longer gives full cp during blades
rugged solar
so you only get the regular amount of cp from ticks
during shadowblades
instead of <max cp>
on one target - 1 cp
coarse laurel
But it triggers damage normally?
rugged solar
yes, its also in the screenshot i posted above
coarse laurel
Was this changed universally about Shuriken Storm? Or just from Tornado?
ivory kestrel
ah
rugged solar
rotten and pv still work an all tornado ticks
without consuming
but i assume its something they had not time to fix yet
coarse laurel
Will require a code change unless it was changed universally and removed Shuriken Storm from the CP mod list
If it's just for Tornado, I'll have to change something
rugged solar
i am fairly certain it will get fixed
we had the same problem with symbols crit iirc
and it got fixed too
remote sparrow
Will require a code change unless it was changed universally and removed Shurike...
storm gives full cp, tornado storms do not just checked
ivory kestrel
only tornado
so chance are those storms are linked to tornado spell ID
if that helps somehow
coarse laurel
Ok, I've gotta leave for a bit but I can get that changed this afternoon
rugged solar
perfect
remote sparrow
one optimization thing I tested with tier fix. if you enter dance with full cps and 3 stored cps you can always do 5 finishers 3 builders.
might be significant not sure
remote sparrow
interesting, I wonder where it loses damage to force that
lilac crescent
because it's building instead of sending dance
so if it does that multiple times you lose a dance cast I suspect
just because of building
lilac crescent
Maybe another dance condition that fits the conditions set forward
that only activates under those conditions
rugged solar
maybe removing cp all together is good let me test
so you woul avoid any delay
ye, seems good
think me trying to be more agressive with shb cp requirements did bakfire
remote sparrow
theres a few other things i tried. like symbolsing 1 second too early right as 3rd auto is abotu to go off to get the extra cps, get to 3 cps and then immediately dance
rugged solar
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fYDYncrU5moTabzii2f8yV>
interestingly enough
this seems bad with dust
remote sparrow
another thing Im curious about is if its possible to change the ratio of finishers in blades
right now its easy to get 11-9 everytime
but can we get 12-8, 13-7? I did the math and with tornado you could get 12-8 easily and soemtimes 13-7 but idk now
ivory kestrel
even new tornado might get us to breakpoints
same as ER snaps for gcd to finisher economy
rotund flint
God no
remote sparrow
okay another thing with blades and Sectech.
it needs some conditions for stored sht
u should only sectech if +3 stored sht I think
past fable
I mean you wont waste cp if you dont
And waiting isnt going to get you more stacks (outside of blades) since youll use them for builders
past fable
Yes
remote sparrow
and if you have less than 3 stored, those 4 are gone
past fable
Oh mb i thought you meant always, not just inside blades. I didnt read
remote sparrow
oh yeah strictly in blades
alright so if you have atleast 1 dust point to reset symbols, you can always get 12 finishers 8 builders during blades
rugged solar
<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fYDYncrU5moTabzii2f8yV>
incorporated this change into the apl, probably needs some more refinement in the future
remote sparrow
what exactly was this change?
also do you know how to call shadow_techniques strored cps?
is it just buff.shadow_technique.stack?
rugged solar
what exactly was this change?
more agressive dance use
rugged solar
is it just buff.shadow_technique.stack?
exactly
rugged solar
Found a very small gain for sepsis to use it with blades instead of on CD, but t...
^ this does not seem to hold up with the last change i did, probably needs more changes. Sepsis seems to be a spell with potential to optimize
ivory kestrel
yea sepsis goremaw and shadowcraft/ER are things we can delve this weekend i will see if i can unravel something now that tornado is dead
past fable
Is there a way to do an override or something that gives me a buff at a certain time?
Im mostly thinking of ashes and its near death proc effect during the opener, dont think its implemented as a part of the trinket yet
azure drift
i dont think so
past fable
I dont want to override a spell to make it give a different effect. I want to add another effect, similar to how it was done with PI before most classes adopted a standard for it
But yes i could do that, but then the apl is scuffed because its only 20s long and all that
Yes
But if its a 20s fight the apl is gonna try to use both dust charges immediately in that window and stuff like that
Just completely screwing it compared to the regular
remote sparrow
the latest apl in the pins does some funny stuff...
rotund flint
jest rugular sepsis things 🙂
remote sparrow
well you also shadowdance from stealth then spend sepsis later
ivory kestrel
i also like when ti does shadowdance snd
remote sparrow
yeah.
its not awful but still not great. like its peaking idk 50k lower than it should
rugged solar
the latest apl in the pins does some funny stuff...
shadow dance in stealth is weird
oh, my mistake
remote sparrow
btw @rugged solar not sure if youve seen the new sectech bug but maybe you can add it to the bug tracker
rugged solar
okay, latest version:
so agressive dance was only a gain because i had a copy/paste issue
sadly
ivory kestrel
sadge
narrow leaf
good thing, the opener is more refined this way
Is there anyway I can see the opener? I'm struggling with quick sims and custom apls; keep getting error codes and i'am no good with code at all
rugged solar
any regular sim will do
remote sparrow
this is with the latest apl btw
dropping the tornado interaction with all builds and taking VT instead.
remote sparrow
maybe drop tornado from builds until tis interaction is fixed in sims?
remote sparrow
nice nice thanks! now maybe we can start testing different gear and embelishments too!
past fable
@rugged solar How do i make the sim cast finishers at 4 during blades? (ie after non-symbolsen sectech or with the first dance, which i might have some gains for)
adding a line actions+=/call_action_list,name=finish,if=buff.shadow_blades.up&variable.effective_combo_points>=4 like this around the action list stuff didnt seem to do anything
rugged solar
moment
past fable
Seeing as casting at 4 was worth during big aoe i figured its probably worth it during blades too. Yes no rush
rugged solar
easiets is to just add a new rule
actions+=/call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points=4&buff.shadow_blades up
but you need to add it in two places
because the stealth sub list has finisher lines too
past fable
Aaaah thats what i was missing
rugged solar
so also
actions.stealthed+=/call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points=4&buff.shadow_blades up
^ updated formating so you can copy it
past fable
Tyty
past fable
It doesnt seem to matter much if we finish at 4 or not, seems to be +-0. (even with tfd)
However restricting dance use so that youre not wasting all of the CP from tfd seems to be a gain https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qkJgz1eroYzEwv5KAwTdrc
Smaller but still a gain for a dust+tfd setup (tfd instead of nado) https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ehRrnbkp7xXWqAifLSzU39
What i did was add this at the end of the stealth dance line
&(!talent.the_first_dance|combo_points.deficit>=4)
rugged solar
nice
does not seem to conflict with any talent combo/fight style
so probably fine to just add
so updated apl:
rugged solar
so updated apl:
past fable
Oh, theres an even better line where you ignore the extra rule i just did during blades (because it doesnt need to be at 0 cp to dance during blades, its gonna waste the cp either way), but now i feel kinda bad to post it after you updated it
&(!talent.the_first_dance|combo_points.deficit>=4|buff.shadow_blades.up)
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r3Lk6a3w4uYxJk1FCgCu4c
rugged solar
oh, shadoblades makes sense
can test it more tomorrow, but it makes sense to not waste the cp
past fable
No its the opposite during blades
You dont care about the cp as its gonna get wasted anyway
rugged solar
ye i know
you can't avoid the cp waste, so its whatever
i mean the line in general
past fable
Ye so its better to not interfere with the timings and force it to dance at 0 cp
I tried checking premed+tfd builds since sometimes it would dance at 0 cp and then do a shadowstrike and waste the premed cps
But none of the conditions i put in to stop that seemed to be a gain, maybe you could figure something out
rugged solar
could check if there is a threashold
e.g.
buff.shadow_blades.remains>=x
insteead of
buff.shadow_blades.up
but i can check on that tomorrow too
past fable
With this tfd sims higher than replicating though, and it feels nice to play, if only the premed bug wasnt in it would feel a lot better and maybe you could even get a second refund in sometimes
But ye, enough siming for today
rotund flint
Your are gloomblading with tfd:
past fable
No, youre just using it for the cp. Most of the time you dance at 2 or 3 cp and then insta eviscerate
rotund flint
good
past fable
But then you'd need gloomblade, which doesnt seem to be worth speccing, with current sims atleast
And with backstab its for sure a loss
mental dirge
```&(!talent.the_first_dance|combo_points.deficit>=4|buff.shadow_blades.up)```
<...
So when in blades you just dance at 0 and evis with tfd??
Or am i misunderstanding
ivory kestrel
basically instad of using fill cps flag finisher build to 2-3 dance finish
you just fill cp flag dance finish
then keep using builder finisher etc
past fable
So when in blades you just dance at 0 and evis with tfd??
No, play blades like you dont have tfd
Finishing at 4 wasnt worth it
mental dirge
I see
remote sparrow
quick question about trying to proc 2pc rupture in dance. if you have finalty and ns and dance +sod buffs up, that rupture is probably doing (at that moment) 300k+ damage right? assuming 33% proc chance, its on average a 100k+ dot with the chance of crititng right?
on top of the dm stack.
is it not worth to play around it?
ivory kestrel
there is a trick right now with it you can rupture and if you get the 2 cp you know it's proccing
then you enter dance
otherwise just keep on going
remote sparrow
i thought about that, too kinda prep your dance, so you always rupture the gcd before dance and if it happens it happens
remote sparrow
not sure why, but a full aoe based build (including all the shadow talents and everything) at 489 has blackpowder at like 100k lower dps thana 448 bis live black powder cast per execute. same with sectech. all on 8 targets. not sure whats going on with sims, but everythings like 40 ilvls weaker its like
489 ilvl bp
448 ilvl
mental dirge
coarse laurel
not sure why, but a full aoe based build (including all the shadow talents and e...
Without seeing profiles, really hard to say.
Is that with the different set bonuses? 10.1 4pc is quite an increase to Black Powder damage.
past fable
Koji i have bad news regarding the set bonus. I didnt test the proc rates thouroughly enough and it seems like they're actually not random percent chance, but stacked decks like sht
coarse laurel
Uhhh ok
I mean maybe using their shuffled random stuff I suppose, but in that case we'd probably need to know some more information
The "deck of cards" stuff
past fable
Rupture def seems to be 33/66/100
coarse laurel
ShT is a little special and uses its own system but hmm
Maybe they scripted it, who knows
Love it
past fable
@brazen palm Did some good testing on it too and have some more info about it
coarse laurel
Nice that none of this is in the tooltip either, so people can't even know what to expect from it
remote sparrow
Without seeing profiles, really hard to say.
Is that with the different set bonu...
not sure if the 10.1 tier is stronger than the 10.2 tier for bp. but also its hard to think that 40ilvl difference results in roughly 15% dps loss for bp
coarse laurel
I think there's some bug with the Shadow Powder coefficient atm that I'm looking at so, hard to compare the set bonuses directly
remote sparrow
it also did change from last week to this week it seems like. its damage is a third of what it was last week
coarse laurel
Still trying to figure out what's wrong with the Shadow Powder bonus but 10.1 tier is really strong
Ah I see
Effects :
#1 (id=1101504) : School Damage (2): shadow
Base Value: 0 | Scaled Value: 0 | PvP Coefficient: 1.00000 | Radius: 0 - 20 yards | Target: At Caster (22) -> AOE enemy (15)
Description : Finishing move that launches Shadow Powder at all nearby enemies dealing Shadow damage. Deals reduced damage beyond $s2 targets.
They removed the reduced damage spell data field
Very cool 😄
past fable
Im not sure how to get the exact probability percentages of each part of the sequence, but here is the info i have from some logs
- Evis: Cant proc on the first hit after proccing and it seems to always proc on the 5th hit if not before. Average chance to proc by just taking procs/casts was ~33.45% (out of 604 casts)
- BP: Cant proc on the first hit after proccing and it seems to always proc on the 8th hit if not before. Average chance to proc by just taking procs/casts was ~23.16% (out of 1045 casts)
coarse laurel
I guess it may be worth testing if Shadow Powder actually has reduced damage to AoE targets or not. Since it's residual maybe they removed it
Quite possible
Probably makes sense to remove it otherwise it'd double dip
Fixed the Shadow Powder thing
rugged solar
nice
remote sparrow
what exactly does this change? the reduced damage spell data change
shouldnt change things in terms of proc rate or overall damage to say 5 targets no?
coarse laurel
Well the spell data was completely removed, so it went from 8T to 0T 😛
I suspect that's a bug on their part honestly, because I don't think that's gonna be deterministic every time
Sometimes they reuse the previous Shadow Clone and sometimes it's a new one
Also tied to the SecTec Shadow Clone stomping bug
It would probably entirely depend on which Clone actor tried to reapply it
Something definitely causes the Shadow Clone IDs to get reduced sometimes, but if you just cast in sequence they won't
It's a bit odd
It may change when they fix the stomping issue Fuu linked above
Kinda inclined to wait this one out a bit until they figure out the clone munching issue
Although super awkward to implement duplicates in SimC without actual source actors.. I can figure something out, but it won't be pretty lol
remote sparrow
would probably make sense to wait it out till they figure it out
i dont think they know what even is happening, doesnt make sense for us to waste this much time trying to figure out somethign then they change it
remote sparrow
Still trying to figure out what's wrong with the Shadow Powder bonus but 10.1 ti...
also back to this, the 10.1 tier could be a flat 40% bp damage. and it still shouldnt be this much ahead when you include the new tier + 40 ilvls + flag buff on top of db together + 25% damage during blades.
coarse laurel
also back to this, the 10.1 tier could be a flat 40% bp damage. and it still sho...
Well if you have the profiles you were comparing, I can look at it. It's possible they changed some other things in the patch that flew under the radar
remote sparrow
sure! this ones from fuu's sheet, flag aoe https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rs495uQpuhCur2us5ubdgo/simc
this ones from our latest apl. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sAiTiidiE1rWGb58331uS5/simc
im rerunning with the same gear rn
this is with equal gear
sectech and bp are like 15-20% weaker
past fable
Well sectech should be weaker since the double dipping nerf, but not bp
remote sparrow
well it about 20% weaker
and sectech did get buffed 12%
and bp is about 25% weaker
past fable
In 10.1 it gets ~79.5% shadow amp from talents
In 10.2 it gets 24%, so even though it got buffed by 12% (which also applies to the phys part) its still not even close to making up for it
And the shadow part of bp should be ~8% less since DD is weaker, but then it got buffed by 20% so it shouldnt be weaker nvm
past fable
Ye fair enough
remote sparrow
but we have blades essentially being a 25% steroids
every 2 minutes idk
seems really really weak
remote sparrow
uh okay this is a quick optimization for embersoul trinket
brings the no dust build very close to the double vanish rotten build
just added a condition to hold flag a little bit longer for embersoul
(!equipped.ashes_of_the_embersoul|trinket.ashes_of_the_embersoul.cooldown.remains<=5|target.time_to_die<30)
remote sparrow
idk who can attempt this but basically trying to force a finality rupture 2pc in dance resulted in this damage breakdown
2pc rupture is like 8-10% of your damage
past fable
Well we need to update simc with the proper proc rates before its worth checking
remote sparrow
right yea makes sense
remote sparrow
okay so new thing I tried! outside of cds i just went bs -> rupture
i do more damage now outside of cds than if I were to build to play properly
specially since everytime I spend 1 cp, i have a high chance of getting 2 cps back
if i alreadyhave a shadow rupture tiking on the target, what happens if i proc another shadow rupture? stack? or replace?
cant get it to track on my plater for some reason
past fable
if i alreadyhave a shadow rupture tiking on the target, what happens if i proc a...
They work like ignite
In fairly sure
remote sparrow
oh perfect, its just turbo cursed then
past fable
Ye or that, my plater combined it but i saw no loss so just assumed it was ignite, but if its seperate dots then its absolutely fine
remote sparrow
okay yeah you can sustain 50k dps just going bs->rupture and not pressing anything else. no tea. no sod. no dance. nothing
ivory kestrel
ahahaha
remote sparrow
youd be doing like 20-25k trying to eviscerate and everything
ivory kestrel
finality finally good pog
remote sparrow
yeah i do like 35k finishing properly and 50k bs->rupturing. I also starve on energy harder if i try to evis
past fable
Peak gameplay
ivory kestrel
now let me tell you
remote sparrow
sub fotms are back. outlaw in shambles
ivory kestrel
play ER 7 point ruptures
past fable
remote sparrow
ok if you low roll though its kinda rough
but the high roll is very rewarding
i procc'd like 5-6 times in a row once
ivory kestrel
🦍 🗣 GET IT TWISTED 🌪 , GAMBLE ✅ . PLEASE START GAMBLING 👍 . GAMBLING IS AN INVESTMENT 🎰 AND AN INVESTMENT ONLY 👍 . YOU WILL PROFIT 💰 , YOU WILL WIN ❗ ️. YOU WILL DO ALL OF THAT 💯 , YOU UNDERSTAND ⁉ ️ YOU WILL BECOME A BILLIONAIRE 💵 📈 AND REBUILD YOUR FUCKING LIFE 🤯
imagine if you had triple trinket there
past fable
Possibly an angle where you try to setup a guaranteed finality 3rd proc and then do regular eviscerating
And then go rupture in dance
remote sparrow
its almost impossible to set it up
ive beent trying a logic like this
I just do a rupture to get finality rupture buff outside of dance as dance is getting close.
if it doesnt proc, then I know im gonna get a proc
if it does proc, then its kinda sus
idk if its wort it or not
it doe slike 300k damage on average i think during a normal dance. so if your previous one didnt proc you 100% send it
if it did proc i think u dont?
fading mica
has anyone done testing with lingering shadow making gloomblade worth pressing in dance?
for when you double dance
maybe along side pv
god this spec is so tangled up
remote sparrow
pretty sure gb+max stack lingering does less than a strike.
fading mica
ye but proccing pv/danse macabre stack etc etc
remote sparrow
really doubt it, because you would have to give up 2 talents in teh 3rd gate to take pv and lingering
and 1 more for gb
fading mica
oh im definitely not suggesting that a pv lingering build would be best
i guess its not worth finding out if the build isnt looking good though lol
remote sparrow
I just really dont wanna look into anything pv/er/lingering/gb related ngl
fading mica
i have 0% blame for you lmfao
ivory kestrel
i've been doing ther PV/rotten/Er side of things
backstab/gloom/lingering are super dead
fading mica
very nice, i respect all talents, but those are my least favorite
been enjoying the youtube hacha
u da man
ivory kestrel
i do have some things to put into logic to see if they are wins for rotten/PV might finally unkrangle sepsis
i do think unkranling opener is not that hard at least
ivory kestrel
been enjoying the youtube hacha
thx havent done super deep delves yet as things change so often
for the initial strike rupture strike i think putting rupture on non up and inside stealth should suffice
fading mica
oh of course, would be a waste of time
ivory kestrel
then to make sure snd does not get refreshed inside dance it would just need a do not use while blades is up you only lose snd for like 1 or 2 secs at most anyway
as you strike and fill cps anyway so no loss likely
remote sparrow
btw I think they changed how the damage is calculated for the bp. I think its based on the targets damage taken that the proc does damage to them again.
this is one proc
from me hitting 3 targets
past fable
has anyone done testing with lingering shadow making gloomblade worth pressing i...
Gloomblade was +-0 to use compared to striking, so yes i would assume it would be worthwhile if you had lingering up. However lingering is not a talent you want to spec into, its not good at all. Ontop of that gloomblade isnt great either
remote sparrow
this is the actual cast
it basically took the damage each target took, added the shadow amps to it, and did it to that target again
fading mica
Gloomblade was +-0 to use compared to striking, so yes i would assume it would b...
tysm king
is nado still the play in ST after the change?
fuu's pin is taking it i believe
past fable
it basically took the damage each target took, added the shadow amps to it, and ...
Im not sure I understand what you are trying to say
past fable
Did they change it with todays maintenance?
ivory kestrel
but we are a cool spec
remote sparrow
Im not sure I understand what you are trying to say
when koji set up the tiers damage from bp, he thought that it would take the damage you did to your target with bp, and then replicate that damage on all targets
but now, I think thats been chhanged, and bp takes the damage done to each target, and replicates that, instead of making the damage based off of the mob youre targeting
fading mica
i guess without tornado it could be a question between gb,tfd,mos,swift death, replicating, and shadow focus
thats pretty cool, lots of options
fading mica
thats what i thought too
fading mica
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cCMfW9k6mzFF3XuFFMCpCb
well im surprised
coarse laurel
sectech and bp are like 15-20% weaker
There's only a 6% difference in average BP base damage in those sims from da_multipliers. Everything else seems to be due to differences in the shadow attack component
fading mica
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cCMfW9k6mzFF3XuFFMCpCb
well im surpri...
idk why swift death would be so high
remote sparrow
yeah makes sense, we lost quite a bit of shadow amps. although i wonder why the base is 6% lower too
fading mica
sim has like a 7% SoD uptime increase
past fable
Due to no silent death (id assume) and less crit in general ye
coarse laurel
FW uptime in the PTR sim is like 96% on the live sim it's 99.8% or something
remote sparrow
that should mostly affect the shadow damage part not the base, but still god to know.
the gap is quite large tho after all things put together
coarse laurel
I mean it would affect the average damage of the physical portion as well
past fable
Its like +13% phys dmg
fading mica
does the html report show FW uptime somewhere?
past fable
But ye we probably need some aoe love now after theyve changed BP 2p
remote sparrow
yes, but thas only 2% uptime on the 13% difference. So it should be like 2% * 13% which is still much lower than 6. but fair point
fading mica
sim has like a 7% SoD uptime increase
7% from RS sim, 8% from nado sim
i guess it's just more rotten procs good?
even though it's only like 1.5 more sod's
coarse laurel
Probably just a few uptime things converging
Max da_multiplier is 59.33 vs. 55.56
Min da_multiplier is the same at 14.85
remote sparrow
its probably a difference in dance uptime
and the cds arent strong enough to makeup for it
fading mica
what's da_multiplier? sorry
is that just like combined all buffs damage increase essentially?
coarse laurel
direct amount multiplier in sims from base damage
Including CP multiplier, buffs, etc.
fading mica
gotcha, sounds like a useful metric
so max da_multiplier going up just means it happens to lead to more buffs all converging at the same time
it'd be cool to see where in the rotation the max is hit
we'd wanna put sectec there i imagine
makes you wonder how much of the increase could be achieved with SoD timings
fading mica
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oTG2R6fRTDaxv1cNibJhC9
for anyone else curious but doesnt wanna waste time simming this many talents when theres like no chance they're worth it
lilac crescent
can do talent combinations in top gear
remote sparrow
shadow rupture ticks do get dynamically updated with dance etc, so at the very least it should be a gain to setup a rupture exactly before dance. that way if you do get the proc, its also gonna be buffed by dance amps.
outside of that, just from hitting dummies, forcing a rupture proc as first dance finisher seems to be a relatively large gain. ~5% ish
but you have to setup a 66% proc chance + finality.
coarse laurel
shadow rupture ticks do get dynamically updated with dance etc, so at the very l...
Are you sure they do? Do you have a log about that?
I don't really see much reason why they would get dynamically updated. The damage is residual, sourced from a pet, and in no whitelists at all. It also has the Ignore Caster Damage Modifiers flag... There's like four independent reasons it shouldn't... Are you sure it actually updates dynamically from any modifiers? And, if so, which ones?
remote sparrow
I just did a few tests, I can log them for you if you want. bascally a 7 cp rupture procced-> did about 87k 5 crit 3 non crits. then I used another 7 cp rupture, dance and sod and afk, did about 150k
ill double check one sec
nvm youre right. it was finality I think. i am dumb
guess it has to be procced inside dance then
coarse laurel
I don't fully know what happens if you get a damage buff between the trigger and the clone spawning though
If the damage is snapshotted when the pet spawns or when the cast first happens
remote sparrow
not sure, but im guessing its on the cast. the clone spanshots it and then applies it im guessing.
I can test this. Ill proc the rupture, and before clone goes out ill use embersoul
yep it gets snapshotted on the cast
coarse laurel
Ok cool
rugged solar
@coarse laurel did you already change tornado functional, i didn't see it in the changelog (maybe i missed it)
rugged solar
Gear profile for 10.2:
remove source=default if you want to use it in top gear/quick sim.
latest apl, i split it out because i got DM's about people wanting to have it plug and play in custom apl.
coarse laurel
<@116203458129821697> did you already change tornado functional, i didn't see it...
Yes
rugged solar
perfect, thanks
coarse laurel
rugged solar
missed that somehow 
past fable
(!equipped.ashes_of_the_embersoul|trinket.ashes_of_the_embersoul.cooldown.remain...
Bumping this because it got lost in the tier set discussion. https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wvedBPjJKw7UREWCXfQU3e
It does not seem have any effect on dust or non-dust builds, but if you really wanted i guess you could add a check for 1 dust point specced, im not entirely sure how to check for only one point though
remote sparrow
yeah, this one I was mostly trying to force it to hold flag and blades to line up for the 1 dust build. to mostly play 1 dust build as a 2 min build.
which seems to be a gain
thanks!
rugged solar
Bumping this because it got lost in the tier set discussion. <https://mimiron.ra...
what did you cahnge
oh i see you referenced the line
past fable
The line i qouted, but sec i have something to add to it
Or rather
Changing the <=5 to other numbers
remote sparrow
oooh thats a big gain!
also very interesting the 9 thingy.
its probably because embersuols second half is quite weak
so it just prefers to use the first 11 seconds of embersoul and not delay blades too much
past fable
Running another check with only the ones that are decently close but 100k iterations instead now
I tried adding something to delay symbols so you could have full symbols during blades, or delay blades/flag for it
But it didnt seem worth it
Forgot to add 10 oups, but 8 def seems like the best option
&(!equipped.ashes_of_the_embersoul|trinket.ashes_of_the_embersoul.cooldown.remains<=8|target.time_to_die<30)
Would be the line fuu, appended at the end of flag
past fable
As i said it didnt change anything for 2x dust or 0 dust, but idk if it could cause any problems in the future if we dont tie it to 1x dust
past fable
so basically align flag with the trinket
Ye exactly, so that you dont use blades & flag at 1:45 and then end up with your trinket up outside of blades
Guess we should technically include the branch trinket too, not sure if its implemented yet or not though
remote sparrow
I did some napking math for double on use
and i dont think itll be good
atleast not when the brand trinket is as strong as it is rn
rugged solar
alright, added it to the latest apl
rugged solar
alright, added it to the latest apl
did not see any losses with a quick sim of ~6 talent combos on 3 fight styles
so seems fine
remote sparrow
is the 1 dust build simming higher for you guys than the other builds too?
rugged solar
good idea, i haven't looked at cooldowns with 1x dust rly
rugged solar
is the 1 dust build simming higher for you guys than the other builds too?
give me a second
will re-run the sim
this one did sim rly well for me earlier