i thought it's a bit bigger than that.
#classic-discussion
hidden basin
coarse spire
I always thought 2set pvp (r10) was bis in this phase..hmm
echo junco
best dungs for raw gold?
haughty willow
Raw gold not but db east solo chest stealth Mobs and solo caster mobs +herbalism is really n1
plucky nymph
@hidden basin It's ~6dps for me over HoJ/BhB.
@coarse spire ZG messed with the lists.
hidden basin
Damn, really? I thought it's like a clear upgrade. Need to sim that shit. Im glad I havent returned any of the texts and crests tho, can sell them
Maybe it is bigger for PvP
alpine badger
Currently having both AV Daggers, Epic and Blue, should I still get DM Dagger? With ++6 on Dagger?
raven snow
If you don't have the anciant core leather gloves, try to get the DM West Dagger - it will be a huge boost for you
Regarding the Earthstrike discussion @hidden basin - When your are playing in Raids with insane DPS, Earthstrike will become more stroner in Boss fights. 280 AP for 20sec means that it will last at about 50% of the Bossfight. As longer the bossfights will take, the trinket gets unuseful
cedar jewel
Also pretty much bis in MC and most bwl bosses
And some aq40 bosses
Your other options are badge of the swarmguard which will most likely be a few bosses only trinket and jom gabbar which is a worse earthstrike imo
Until naxx at least
However if you’re in no rush of getting earthstrike just farm the badges next phase and wait for aq20/40 for easy CC rep
digital mirage
What do you think of this pvp spec?
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/30532012500133--500243100330101
solid basin
you're really gonna miss dirty deeds with this. teching imp kidney shot instead of imp gouge is something people do for battlegrounds, especially wsg. But taking points from dirty deeds and to a lesser extent heightened senses for SF is not worth it
hidden basin
@raven snow So it's useless for bosses like C'thun?
Guess it's not really worth the insane grind for the time being. Maybe as Mizerok said it's better to get later on with the rep bonus.
We also get rep in AQ 40?
@tall rivet So you think it's worth the grind now?
To have the trinket ready for boss fights in AQ 40
signal ember
That's a bot bro.
plucky nymph
: - |
wise vector
being swords w/ cts/brut blade for vael with dagger MH do I want to use brut blade in OH or bonescraper the Baron Riverdare dagger
coarse spire
@plucky nymph @hidden basin i mean r10 shoulder and boots i believe was bis cause of 40ap setbonus.. Or was it shoulders and gloves, cant remember. Now it seems renataki trinket+zg shoulders are better for the +20ap, but only for short bossfights (?) for rest i still sim t1 shoulders and boots of shadowflame to be superior to pvp 2set bonus, but i remember it otherwise... Hmm
sand marlin
Does anyone have a good dagger rogue sim atm, I'm finding You Youfies to be off
tame blade
Hi, can anyone tell me how much i should pay for a Phantom Blade? Been trying to get it for the looks and the proc, but i cant find an average price somewhere
alpine badger
Whats the current specc for Daggers? Running MC/BWL? I saw the one backstab thing, but it was for sword, just exchange Sword to Dagger?
plucky nymph
alpine badger
Thanks! 🙂
plucky nymph
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand <@&224906552333697025> 
ruby bridge
huh
plucky nymph
ty ty
ruby bridge
wait, who was faster...
novel plank
plucky nymph
drowsy phoenix
what me miss
plucky nymph
Load up retail.
raven snow
i'm gonna be stuck at this speed the whole game?
plucky nymph
70%? Yes.
plucky nymph
Well then get to leveling
plucky nymph
You get sprint in every version o _O
raven snow
Someone of you playing a sword rogue and using Thunderfury? I am able to get the next Bindings in my Guild, at the moment i am using CTS ans Hakkari OH. TF would be a nice upgrade in my offhand and seems to be in the same tier than Iblis. Is the Grind worth it?
Due to the fact that i am tanking all dungeons for my guild, keeping the aggro in for exampel Stratholme would be much easier
alpine badger
any way to reduce resist of pickpocket?
tall lotus
Hey, i've won Fang of the Faceless last ZG so i'm going to respec Seal Fate (i know Combat would be better but i like more Seal fate), which enchants should i put on daggers? Crusader + agi, double Crusader or maybe sup striking + agi? Thanks 😀
quasi path
Hi Frozenarrow. +5 damage on MH and +15agi on OH. nice looot!
coarse spire
experiencing so many discrepencies on the "Bis swords" and "bis daggers" in the 1.4 sheet 😦 Like doomhide gauntles, warblade of hakkari etc etc..
tall lotus
@quasi path thank you very much! 🙂
wise spoke
hey someone told me that cht ie better in OH than brutality blade even as combat swords is that true?
is*
slim briar
I simmed it for some time ago and cht was the winner. Is it better tho? I can’t say.
Wasn’t by much. It was back then when I was thinking going swords. Like January or something. I was wondering how crucial a sword in offhand would be since I had cht. So. 🤷♀️ (still rocking daggers tho)
undone scarab
I'm leveling sub in classic, just got 30. Do I change to deadly poison or stay instant poison?
undone scarab
ok instant poison ftw it seems
raven snow
Lost 1% Crit for + 40 pa or not ?
plucky nymph
@wise spoke Core Hound Tooth is a very minor upgrade over Brutality Blade as Combat Swords.
quasi path
I have recently been a Dagger and I have a question about the bosses: Do you use Burning Adrenaline at each opening of fight? Or sometimes, do you keep it for the Burst at end??
raven snow
@quasi path Adrénaline when the proc of crusader is up, preferably at the beginning of the fight for me
Wait for 5 stacks of sunder armor before using AR
echo mantle
Can anyone link some good math or discussion behind Seal Fate builds? I even dug into the Wayback Machine site to try and dig up old Elitist Jerks conversations but no such luck.
burnt turtle
Hi, everyone
I'm curious one question: Why though main DPS is coming from basic attacks (+ poison) and daggers are simply faster many guides say that sword builds deal more damage? Furthermore, you can't use ambush.
I think it's a frequent question in this channel, but I didn't find an answer and can't understand.
plucky nymph
Not frequent, sword spec + higher damage ranges lead to more white damage typically.
burnt turtle
I have been thinking about it, but haven't found any dps tables like in actual. More damage range is good, but more frequent attacks and more poison procs ain't any good too?
plucky nymph
You can look at the literally tens of thousands of logs in regards to this.
Daggers also rely heavily on crit rate and world buffs
burnt turtle
So for the best DPS I should switch to swords too?
plucky nymph
Depends on your gear, they're pretty close damage wise.
burnt turtle
Rogue is my second favorite class after mage, but i'm veteran of WoW. Never have played as rogue and now I'm just leveling)
plucky nymph
BWL has poor weapon choices for daggers, AQ it gets better.
burnt turtle
Anyway, thx for help. GL)
plucky nymph
👋
signal ember
Yeah Perd is bis for mh until AQ40
wise spoke
@plucky nymph wow so it still is an upgrade that's so strange to me since it doesn't benefit from sword spec at all and has less top end but is just faster and wins
@slim briar too
quasi path
No crusader with dagger spé @raven snow ^^ (+5 Damage MH, +15agi OH) @raven snow yep okey! thc! ^^
compact valve
Hi, can anyone explain me. What will be more useful? Daggers Seal fate build or Sword seal fate build in AQ? My race is a night elf.
shadow hollow
where would you get the point from to put into ghostly strike for the pvp hemo specc? 1 less ins improved sap?
plucky nymph
@wise spoke Yeah stats are stats, and that's a lot of stats.
@compact valve Neither.
@shadow hollow That probably comes down to what you think you would use more.
alpine badger
ZG fist Weapon are any good? got them cuz none wanted
plucky nymph
Nope
signal ember
wouldn't bother unless you got gold that you just want to burn
bonescraper is pretty nice for offhand
and distracting blade from dmw
hushed laurel
alcors is mostly for tanks to MH during vael, its marginally better than the other 1.3s
hushed coral
Hello new rogue here, i have a swing timer that displays the swing of my main hand, is it enough or would i need something that displays MH and OH eventually ?
also, second question, i use a switch weapon maccro on both my sinister strike and stealth opener, do i need make sure i have my sword equipped before using eviscerate or does it not matter because it only scales with AP ?
tall lotus
Hey guys, what if i swap HoJ for the Elemental deck card? will be more dps or not? (i'm using daggers)
drowsy flare
@tall lotus its less than a 1 dps upgrade
when fully world buffed
I'd rather farm heroism for soloing and levelling in tbc
tall lotus
@tall lotus its less than a 1 dps upgrade
@drowsy flare thank you! 🙂
warm inlet
so just some ideas on main hand and off hand daggers as a new rogue closing in on 60. barmans shanker MH bonescrapper OH.
any other weapon choices i could use aswell?
drowsy flare
@warm inlet thats about it, but honestly just find a regular mc pug that uses softres and get perdition ASAP, then CHT/accuria
ZG pugs are good as well, you can get fang of the faceless or the offhand warblade which are both very good
barren junco
quick question, dagger rogue do not use evis on vail right? just keep spamming BT ?
BS*
slim briar
5p evi. Unless you have like 1850+ ATKPower. Thats How im learned could be wrong:)
warm inlet
@drowsy flare Awesome thanks for the reply. Was overthinking what weapons i could/should use.
rugged kraken
Ello fellow rogues - quick question: If you hypothetically had Maladath (MH) and TF (OH) as weapons, which enchants would you recommend ? I've seen that Mala should have 15+ agi but if it was a OH, should it still have 15+ agi or crusader when its used as an OH ? And would TF then have 15+ agi or crusader ?
bronze geyser
@rugged kraken Crusader in Mainhand & Agi +15 in Offhand seems to always sim higher regardless of weapon for swords. I can't find any weapons where this isn't the case.
drowsy flare
@rugged kraken you'd MH TF and OH Maladath , crusader mainhand, agi offhand for both swords and daggers
hexed spoke
I have trying to figure out if:
Knight-Captain’s Leather Chestpiece (KCC) + Knight-Luetenant’s Leather Walkers [143EAP]
Or
KCC + lieutenant Commander’s Leather Shoulders [178EAP]
is a better upgrade compared to
Field Marshal’s Chestpiece+ Nightslayer Boots [134.24EAP]
Field Marshal’s Chestpiece + Nightslayer shoulderpads [155.24EAP]
The raw +40AP provided from the blue pvp set bonus seems to outshine both of the former armor combos based on my EAP calculations. Is this right? Want to get opinions from others just to make sure im optimizing my character properly. If you can tag me with a response it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in Advance.
Calculations I used were: 1%cirt =23EAP, 1%hit=18EAP, conversion of crit contributed by agility I used (cumulative agi on items / 29)x23
bronze geyser
@hexed spoke If you mean for PvP, not sure I can help you other than pointing you to shadowpanther.net to look at the AEP values if you're looking for maximum overall stats.
For PvE or max DPS, it's hard to sim without your full set of gear, and I'm unsure based on your explanation what pieces you have to trade out or experiment with, so I'd point you to the simming spreadsheet, or PM me if you want with your full set of gear in wowhead's gear planner with what options you have available.
Simming spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VSxFOc6eFYyoF6X19SQEKd12CJriIdXl/view
hexed spoke
@bronze geyser yeah, i was looking for PVE atm. I sent you the set ups. for some reason the sim spreadsheet is not loading for me.
sharp wing
Looking to get into classic. Which classes are the biggest rogue counters in wpvp?
In 1v1/group scrimmage
drowsy phoenix
warriors suck to face. good luck killing a decent warlock or prepared priest
sharp wing
Shadow priest?
signal ember
Yeah spriest is deadly, so is SL lock.
rancid socket
Is HoJ that much better than maelstrom?
drowsy phoenix
stun out of form
same as retail lol
but, in classic, you're probably just not going to kill a moonkin
tall lotus
Crit cap is 34 + Hit right? Or 30 + Hit?
indigo parrot
could anyone sim these 2 specs for me?
im just wondering which would be better for pve and i dont have excel so i cant sim it
ruby bridge
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 264 days 16 hours 15 minutes 60 seconds
cold vector
Anyone know if there’s a situation where you’d want to keep the cadaverous set after getting T1?
plucky nymph
@indigo parrot They're both crap, go get a OneDrive account and you can use online excel for free.
indigo parrot
yeah i know they arent that great but i was just wondering
and ok i didnt know that thanks
raven snow
why does leveling in classic suck so much?
plucky nymph
Math.
raven snow
i want my poisons lol
plucky nymph
Level...
raven snow
it takes so long
raven snow
it's gonna be worse?
plucky nymph
Getting your poisons isn't going to magically make things better.
raven snow
i think i've been having better luck with the human start than the nelf
it'll make rogue a lot cooler and more fun
plucky nymph
They are better with swords, that's for sure.
raven snow
i can't even use swords rn
probably won't be able to train them until i get to stormwind
plucky nymph
Probably not.
raven snow
well it was worth a shot
hushed laurel
classic leveling sucks if all you want is the end game
wise spoke
hey whats the best hemo spec offhand weapon not including r14 or TF
for pvp obviously
raven snow
I mean there’s pvp, raids, dungeons, gear
solid basin
CHT probably
wise spoke
@solid basin yeah thats what i was thinkin too but wasnt sure
bronze geyser
I think so too for CHT best PvP offhand (daggers or hemo), great stats and good damage, faster speed for more poison procs
hexed spoke
im sure someone has parsed it, but what are your thoughts on sharpening stones vs poisons? pair that with dual wielding 2 slow weapons (i.e. r14 longswords) for a higher crusaders proc? or is the traditional set up better in general?
bronze geyser
I actually looked into weapon consumes already for someone else, what I found was: Windfury > Instant > Ele > Dense for both hands:
Daggers: (MH): Instant: +35.26 dps, Ele Stone: +16.07 dps, Windfury: +102.58 dps, Dense Stone: +14.66 dps - (OH): Instant: +29.37 dps, Ele: +16.07 dps, Dense: +7.13 dps
Swords: (MH): Instant: +34.02 dps, Ele: +18.16 dps, Windfury: +133.16 dps, Dense: +10.44 dps - (OH): Instant: +21.61 dps, Ele: +18.34 dps, Dense: +5.00 dps
Sharpening stones are flat increase, same with crusader, so you'd be hitting pretty hard with some burst, but losing overall damage to instant
hushed coral
Hello, quick question for a new rogue trying to optimize his dps in pve, i know that i should keep track of my main hand swing to sinister strike right after i auto attack, meaning the 5/5 sword spec talent procs off of auto attack and sinister strike, but i couldn't find the info if it also does work with riposte ? with eviscerate ?
should i eviscerate and riposte right after a swing or does it not proc the sword spec ? the tooltip is very evasive
drowsy phoenix
any source of damage coming from that weapon has a chance to make it use an auto attack instantly
hushed coral
so basically everything
drowsy phoenix
yup
hushed coral
good to know
frosty badge
Any pve outlaw rogues available to chat regarding the mythic + rotations. i have some questions guides dont seem to answer.
oops. sorry this is for classic. disregard
hollow vine
so uh just respeced to dagger rogue
how exactly do i front backstab?
ah apperantly it isn't a thing anymore
sick
hushed laurel
Yah, fronstabbing was a pserver thing
willow herald
hey does anyone know how much damage windfury adds to dagger rogue
bronze crystal
not so much, double +2% crit is as effective
digital mirage
Do I ever use rupture?
plucky nymph
No
digital mirage
Not even while soloing stuff like elites? I mean, isnt it more damage that evi for example?
plucky nymph
Nope.
drowsy phoenix
if evi crits, it outdoes rupture and over a period of 0 seconds rather than up to 16
signal ember
I only rupture in PvP on tank if I'm bleed kiting them. I do it all of the time in TBC lol.
cursive snow
whats better for swords dft/HoJ or dft/blackhands currently with like 16% hit and only like 25% crit unbuff so wouldnt blackhands be better?
cursive snow
anyone?
plucky nymph
DFT/HoJ @cursive snow
plucky nymph
Ye
azure mauve
What are good swords to be looking out for at 53?
loud tree
Thrash blade ftw
signal ember
Sword of Zeal is also a good sword to use
upgrade from Thrash blade
its a world blue boe but give you armor/10 dmg on hit proc
steep oak
The word itself says it. BACKstab.. was better like that actualy required skill in pvp back in the day
digital mirage
Is there any god energy tick addon for default unit frames? I'm not talking about NugEnergy. Like only a tick meter on top of your default energy bar
plucky nymph
Any Weakaura can be resized to fit ontop of the default frames
desert hazel
whats better for swords dft/HoJ or dft/blackhands currently with like 16% hit and only like 25% crit unbuff so wouldnt blackhands be better?
@cursive snow hey man. congratulations to DFT 🙂
What I wonder is if there is a plan behind 16% hit / 25% crit. You could stack some more crit over your hitcap before having to raise the bar with hit again. so if you could shift some of that hit to crit, you would benefit from it. even if you go full ham with all world buffs and consumables you would probably not critcap yourself atm
hollow vine
anyone know any good addon that can tell me how long my cheap shot, gouge, kidney shot, blind, etc is?
for example it just gives me a timer
molten citrus
weakauras 😉
hollow vine
yikes
desert hazel
anyone know any good addon that can tell me how long my cheap shot, gouge, kidney shot, blind, etc is?
@hollow vine Nug Running or Threat plates depending where you want your information
raven cape
plucky nymph
It's a "bug", increases attack speed, lowers attack power to compensate for the increased attack speed. @raven cape
deep wing
hey
peak ridge
hi, i like to play dagger rogue, atm im lvl 55 and have a ambush/backstab build for lvling. some guildis said at lvl 60 i should play for pve with swords. but i like pvp too. is there a viable dagger specc for pve/pvp?
bronze crystal
yes it is
moreover you'll get your hands easier on pre-raid daggers and epic daggers than on pre-raid swords and epic swords
cursive snow
If your a human rogue and coming p5 and you don’t want to do the most aids quest line for ravencrest would warblade still be better or would you do mala just for the dps
tulip lark
@peak ridge yes, you have 2 builds to check out on PVE with daggers, one is the classic combat daggers, with adrenaline rush and blade flurry, the other one is seal fate daggers, which you need like 28%+ crit to make it viable in pve, but of course, you will always be behind the combat swords on DPS until Naxxramas is out
signal ember
What's there for P5 for aids questline?
signal ember
That's just a money drop
loud tree
or maybe the AQ quest chain
he said for ravencrest though
no idea what he means
oh i guess this
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=21520/ravencrests-legacy
loud tree
to answer the question: warblade is pretty similar for OH dps. probably not worth the effort of doing the quest chain
cursive snow
Yeah sorry
So warblade pretty much your best alternative then yeah? Without doing the 3 world bosses and getting like 44000 Silithus frags
Well 3 bosses or whatever to kill
carmine idol
Why not mala?
zinc tundra
So quick question
I have been rocking Brut Blade MH and Mirah's Song OH for some time now
Just got CHT
Is it worth to replace mirah's on offhand with CHT?
zinc tundra
Awesome, done deal
zinc tundra
Nice, nice
Thanks for the quick response!
Just started raiding again after a break before BWL dropped. Have to get my CTS/mala now 😄
granite kettle
hey guys general wow question here, my second account... if I let my friend log on it and hes in another state will it get banned? What exactly causes blizzard to ban account sharers ? If we are just playing scholo and molten core together is that enough ?
drowsy phoenix
probably
cursive snow
So there’s a sword rogue on my server who is running 3 points in improve poisons.......and no ruthlessness is the trade off worth it or would ruthlessness still be better overall
That’s the exact build
bronze crystal
I saw a full T2 rogue with two maces (horde side, not even human)
some people just want to feel special
(he was rank 1 and had 0 HK)
granite kettle
guys I got 8/8 t2 but I am not crit capped and losing 3 hit seems bad, I have tested 8/8 bf in jump runs and see it procs maybe once a min, rarely back to back, anyone here use it?
desert hazel
That’s the exact build
@cursive snow it's for Vael, imo other than Vael not worth it but I'm all ears, there are many creative guys out there with cool ideas 🙂
leaden trail
So is it definitive that CHT is a dps upgrade over any of the non epic options for an OH sword if you have brute blade mh?
desert hazel
So is it definitive that CHT is a dps upgrade over any of the non epic options for an OH sword if you have brute blade mh?
@leaden trail yes. your best bet would be to get Warblade of the Hakkari offhand as an easy to get upgrade but no blue is better than CHT for your mentioned setup with brute in MH
leaden trail
Thanks for that answer. Unfortunately I’m exalted and have never seen the oh drop.
desert hazel
thats really bad luck, wish you better luck next time man
bronze hazel
Rogues of Ravenholdt give me your knowledge, is seal fate better than combat in the next phase?
plucky nymph
no
wise spoke
whats the better rogue pvp weapon, blastershot launcher vs dragonbreath hand cannon
seems similar to me
main fog
@bronze hazel yes it is.
depends still mostly on your playstyle
I'm seal fate now and can still keep up with all the rogues in my guild except for one, but it all really depends on rng
seal fate is extremely reliant on world buffs though, so not dying should be your highest concern. Once that tapers off, your viability will drop a bit.
Seal fate offers me a half pve/pvp option since it gives you access to cold blood. Did combat as a leveler and while it puts out heavy damage, its also generally the worse pvp spec
sick spoke
hello there guys. I recently was able to get my hands on thunderfury.
My question would revolve around the optimal pvp spec. I have perditions blade and used to play dagger pvp which was amazing. Should i stick with it and use TF in offhand? is hemo spec the best way to use it?
azure mauve
Should I use Eye of Rend or Ebon Mask?
raven snow
Should I be farming shadowcraft gear?
drowsy flare
yes
raven snow
over bis?
drowsy flare
no, it's for phase 5 when you can turn it into darkmantle
4 piece darkmantle is predicted/simmed to be higher/equal dps to phase 5 tier 2.5 bis upgrades over current gear
quaint mango
Guys, perhaps stupid question. I am non-human rogue, and just got Warblade of Hakkari (OH). I had Claw of the Black Drake (MH) and Brutality Blade (OH). What would be the best setup here? In Sno's rogue dps sheet, I found that Claw of Black Drake (MH) + Warblade of Hakkari (OH) is better than Brutality (MH) + Warblade of Hakkari (OH), can anyone shine a light on this please :D. Also, do I put crusader on the warblade or agility? Thanks
stray trench
@quaint mango just use the sheet and "sim" it yourself, sno sites is... yeah just sim yourself :). tbh claw should be better and you are normally using agility on offhand, but just sim it urself. (sim yourself for obvious reason, killtime, your worldbuff setup in farm and while progress (non worldbuff ofc after 1 wipe), your consums, are things only you can add into the sheet, no one else. @drowsy flare depends highly on your gear, world buff, consum setup and killtime, for alliance dagger its mostly worse than p4 bis.
desert hazel
Rogues of Ravenholdt give me your knowledge, is seal fate better than combat in the next phase?
@bronze hazel early phase 5? No
Towards end of phase 5? Yes probably
Should I be farming shadowcraft gear?
@raven snow yes. For darkmantle. We expect it to be bis for quite a while (around until full T2.5)
If (and thats a big if but very probable) the proc of the 4 set is the same as in T0 for 6 set
4 pcs T0.5 is expected to be amazing for both sword and dagger in early P5 if the rest of your gear is top P4. Even better (over your old gear) if your P4 gear is whack
merry garden
Hello classic community! Is there a tool to sim dps in classic for rogues?
fringe kernel
Hey folks. I'm considering rerolling melee because I'm sick of hunter DPS. What reasons, if any, are there to roll rogue over warrior?
hushed laurel
less gear competition, stealth is cool, better in solo pvp, better ways to farm gold
hushed laurel
rogues and their infinity free weapon skill
plucky nymph
I need 1 hit? Fucking that's... gonna be difficult.
hushed laurel
i can get my warrior over hit cap pretty easily, which saves me from having to buy lionheart though
plucky nymph
Hell no.
hushed laurel
yah, got em like a month or so after launch when gold wasnt dumb yet
its not that bad though, dont have to spend a bunch of gold if you pick the correct race, and you can get your hit elsewhere and get forors eyepatch or endless rage, both of which are better dps wise than lionheart if you dont need the hit
wise spoke
crusader or agil on OH weapon for hemo spec?
desert hazel
crusader or agil on OH weapon for hemo spec?
@wise spoke both works, I'd go crusader just for those pesky cold blood evis XD
generally, I dont fancy crusader in pvp as its just not reliable enough but for hemo it can be quite fun and def. makes more sense than for stabby build
merry maple
Hello, I'm human sword/combat with Brutality Blade MH and Mirah's Song OH. Is it worth it to replace Mirah's Song with Alcor Sunrazor (as I dropped one) ? Many thanks.
desert hazel
Macko is right, give Sunrazor to a tank or sell it
drowsy phoenix
(on the AH or for a hefty sum in trade, of course)
distant silo
I'm stuck at 100 lock picking. all the guides say to use waterlogged footlockers but when I try to pick them it says my skill is not high enough. Any ideas?
drowsy flare
which ones? :d the desolace ones or st?
distant silo
Zoram strand
distant silo
Where should I go to level after 100?
plucky nymph
Google it, that's what someone else is going to do.
distant silo
I did Google it if you see above.
It says to open these waterlogged foot Lockers but when I try to it says my skill is not high enough.
desert hazel
well, Zoram is from 100. not 99, 100. if you have lockpicking, not pickpocket, lockpicking, 100, it'll work
oh and the ones at land, the ones in the water can be higher I guess
distant silo
Thanks, maybe that's it. I was in the water.
distant silo
Yea. I just went back. That was it, thank you.
desert hazel
No problem mate
rancid nova
Brutality or warblade in off hand? heard poison proc is about the same?
desert hazel
warblade
vocal otter
Starting fresh on a new realm (old realm is alliance), it's between shaman and rogue. help
vivid pendant
Considering this is a rogue discord I'd say we're all a bit biased
vocal otter
Would a great rogue stand out much? My main concern is just gearing and finding a raid spot at the end, really. I figure I'd enjoy rogue more.
plucky nymph
You assume you would be great > _>
Though that's not too hard realistically, gear can hold you back pretty hard however.
Do w/e you enjoy the most really.
People will always want more Shaman.
mossy hull
when you have 8 shaman in the raid, the you stop wanting more 
desert hazel
raid spot, go shaman
solo pvp go rogue
max dps go rogue
versatility in role go shaman
gear progress go shaman
If you wanna raid as a shaman, usually you will have to stick with a heal build, so build versatility isnt a proper reason actually.
molten citrus
Yea, if you want to perform, you either go resto shaman or rogue... forget going dps shaman....but yea, there is a shitload of rogues and warriors because they are just too good... noone knows how BC release will be handled, but i would think of the future and go resto shaman... because shaman in BC is a 100% spot
desert hazel
we have a 100 parse enhancer shaman. it works if you have one of the few who really know their game but thats super rare. even worse for ele
rogue is a bit contested in terms of raid spot but at least its a rather safe dps role 🙂
molten citrus
well 100 parse among shamans is still like 50% of rogue dps, so thats not a metric
desert hazel
thats roughly correct, they will never excel in boss dps. but a 100 parse enhancer can be worthy for the raid. our enhancer deserves his spot while most enhancer in raids just mean that the raid is not trying hard 🙂 thats fine for 100% casual gameplay but its just that they rarely get a spot
molten citrus
you are right i guess... and keeping good shamans is beneficial towards TBC aswell
raven snow
is there an addon that announces when i kick a target for classic?
desert hazel
plucky nymph
@raven snow Exorsus Raid Tools can do it, Details can do it, etc.
raven snow
!classic
raven snow
does anyone know how much spell power affects instant poison like whats the ratio
cedar jewel
poisons are only affected by spell crit afaik @raven snow
vocal otter
What's a good weapon to try and grab in the 40s?I know thrash blade is awesome, but are there any BoE's I should try to grab to pair with it?
proven trout
Bloodrazor claps
desert hazel
What's a good weapon to try and grab in the 40s?I know thrash blade is awesome, but are there any BoE's I should try to grab to pair with it?
@vocal otter Horde or Alliance?
Anyway, go for Thrash Blade as MH, it delivers. So we talk OH, which arent too important compared to MH but here we go
Sang'thraze the Deflector is a pretty decent offhand but terrible dropchance
Zorbin's Mega-Slicer is an easy to get quest rewards
All other pre 50 40s options are rather bad, so go for any of those or buy a BoE
quartz quail
Can anyone link me to a solid imp exposed armor spec
desert hazel
the only imp exposed armor spec I consider useful is a SF pvp build
its rather a support build as far as rogue builds can be. obv still amazing for dmg
plucky nymph
Wrong channel.
cedar jewel
What's a good weapon to try and grab in the 40s?I know thrash blade is awesome, but are there any BoE's I should try to grab to pair with it?
@vocal otter vanquisher's sword is an amazing quest reward at lvl 37 (horde) or 39 (alliance), requires 1x RFD run https://classic.wowhead.com/item=10823/vanquishers-sword (you can probably get boosted by a guildy farming his daggers for viscidius)
i used thrash blade + vanquisher's sword till sword of zeal MH and mirah's OH
honest hare
anyone know if hemo pvp build is viable in the likes of a pve enviroment such as brd / MC
signal ember
ZG/ony is fine, I'd go real pve spec for mc/bwl tho imo
desert hazel
anyone know if hemo pvp build is viable in the likes of a pve enviroment such as brd / MC
@honest hare such as BRD yes, MC sure but its no fun, neither for you nor your raid when you spam hemo
give wow classic another few weeks, maybe months and you can play a quite viable PvPvE build with SF
for now, if you want to perform in PvE, you need to respec
vocal otter
Oh snap, discord didn't ping me for some reason.
Vanquisher sword looks perfect, I needed something to hold me over till bloodrazor was equippable xD
raven snow
As a combat sword spec, ive been raiding w sword of zeal and mirah for a while. In a recent MC, CHT dropped and me and a rogue w almost identical gear rolled on it and i won. Should I, 1. have CHT as a offhand replacing mirah w sword of zeal as main still in combat sword spec. 2. respec to combat daggers and try to get another dagger from dungeon/pvp. 3. wait till i get perd to respec
desert hazel
thats a tricky one, really. Let's compare your options 1 by 1
Zeal + Mirah's vs Zeal + CHT (both with sword spec obviously): No Brainer, go with Zeal + CHT, that beats Zeal + Mirah's by quite a margin
Now if we're assuming (god I hate to do so 😄 ) you're open to farm distracting dagger out of DM:West or have ACLG (+dagger gloves from MC) CHT + distracting dagger (with ACLG any other offhand dagger) would beat above setup
It's a bit odd and by far not the best setup but from there onwards you have nice options down the dagger path -> Hakkar Dagger + CHT for example to name an easy one or Vael Dagger + CHT. Obviously Perdition + CHT
You can get the Lobotomizer (AV Exalted) and slightly upgrade it with Goreripper (MC) as MH and run with CHT OH
Also consider that as long as you dont have ACLG, distracting dagger is always an option as an offhand dagger and potentially beats CHT
If dagger is meh to you, stick with Zeal + CHT until you get better swords and follow that path. It would be a pity for CHT but can't be helped 🙂
TL;DR: Zeal + CHT is your current best bet with only having the information you shared so far
raven snow
Lol man thanks for the time to do the rundown its very helpful, its been bugging me for a bit lol
desert hazel
nP mate, we've all been there
leaden quest
good morning guys, 3ss m+ build, which essences do I go for?
shadow tapir
Try #assassination @leaden quest
leaden quest
oh damn, sorry about that x) obviously wrong channel :X
distant silo
What does ravenhold rep give/ what are the rewards?
drowsy flare
nothing :p
cedar jewel
@raven snow if human: zeal + mirah’s, if you’re any other race: zeal + cht
desert hazel
@raven snow if human: zeal + mirah’s, if you’re any other race: zeal + cht
@cedar jewel it's much closer but Zeal + CHT is still slightly better
but that probably just depends on the calculation, so I wont fight your statement
probably due to the stats benefit through kings you might be right
cedar jewel
This was discussed a lot during phase 1
It’s just the racial humans have
That makes mirahs better
desert hazel
my sims usually are for horde, so my calculations are bad for humans potentially (even though I try to consider as many aspects as possible)
cedar jewel
Figured, which is why i pointed out if the person is human to stick with mirahs
desert hazel
with only their racials I dont really see mirah's better than CHT but with the 9 + 9 stats and kings it might turn
yeah, good call mate
median shore
Hi, https://guybrushgit.github.io/WarriorSim/ is the same for rogue ?
hushed laurel
if you aresking if you can use that for simming rogue items, no
desert hazel
there are rogue sim tools, some better some worse. I like Garcia's Spreadsheet, it's quite accurate imo
vocal otter
Ever sprint straight at a lowbie and stealth before reaching them, just to see how they react?
desert hazel
Ever sprint straight at a lowbie and stealth before reaching them, just to see how they react?
@vocal otter ah my corona home office alternative to the usual coffee & cigarette break at work
vague breach
Hey, how do I go about getting Mugger's Belt in 2020 when no one runs dungeons any more? Is he duoable by rogue/rogue, rogue/druid? Can I maybe hire someone doing tribute runs to work it with me?
Or should I just try to cobble together some 5 man pugs out of lowbies or whatever and convince them to do non tribute
plucky nymph
Barter with your guild?
vague breach
I could but I feel bad about it, I would rather do the work myself or throw money at it if i can
But if I can target farm it with another rogue or druid then that would be pretty easy to get 1 person on board
desert hazel
Mugger's is like the easiest to get? DM North runs happen all the time, just ask to get this boss killed instead of using the suit
and yes, you can do it with stealther only
fringe spindle
yo i hit 60 in phase 1 and stopped playing. looking to come back. is there some kind of gear progression chart i can follow to catch up?
looking to go daggers
plucky nymph
Go to ZG and gobble everything up.
Finding DM groups for Distracting Dagger or Mugger's Belt might be very painful.
fringe spindle
hmm could i just hop straight into zg pug. like im basically fresh 60. i stopped played when they turned on pvp ranking.
plucky nymph
ZG is basically a catch up raid for gearing, finding a guild would be a better idea however if you wish to continue forward.
and I've no idea how PuGs are where you might be.
desert hazel
yo i hit 60 in phase 1 and stopped playing. looking to come back. is there some kind of gear progression chart i can follow to catch up?
@fringe spindle hey man, I dont know such a progression chart but ZG farm is the most obvious and relaxing path.
try to find a guild that lets you join at least ZG and MC and with rogues who dont need no more items out of these two. We are now equipping two new rogues in ZG/MC/BWL and within 4 weeks they got from green/blue fresh 60 to well equipped
ZG offers good stuff and with its 3 day reset and 45 minute chill runs definitely is the backbone of your catch up run as it's meant to be
the madcap set isnt too bad and mixed with T1 and T2 works well.
For a dagger rogue, Hakkar drops quite a nice dagger to fill the gap until you get your hands on Perditions, just be aware, hunters are getting big eyes for it too.
my biggest tip would be to focus on farming 8/8 T0 though. Phase 5 is about to knock and wit the T0.5 quest chain you can fill 4 slots with BiS over almost all of Phase 5 at the very first day of the new Phase if you rush it.
Seriously, give it a try, you will not immediately benefit from it but within just 3-4 weeks you will be grateful you invested in it and you probably also get some useful items out of the farm and some gold too
fringe spindle
word. thanks for the write up i think ill start getting the T0 and working up the courage to ask my friends if i can come to one of thier guild runs lol.
vocal otter
Double tarnished ring is the play until I can get a don julio band, yeah?
plucky nymph
ye
granite kettle
does anyone know if grilled squid stack with fire toasted bun? Im too cheap to test it
deep prawn
it stacks
unkempt junco
Are you all gunning for Darkmantle in the next phase or will some of you go with T2 anyway?
plucky nymph
Will gather all 8 pieces, use Darkmantle+Tier2 until I have the Tier2.5 and AQ40 pieces to change things around.
plucky nymph
Can just replace other pieces it's likely still worth it.
unkempt junco
You need the full set to get Darkmantle though
Oh you mean you can replace with T 2.5
unkempt junco
Yeah true, I'll see, hopefully I won't lack too much behind Darkmantle rogues with full T2 if I don't manage to make Darkmantle
plucky nymph
Helm+Chest is the last quest anyway.
No no, darkmantle is a crapton of damage, will still require some luck and not overcapping to make use of it.
plucky nymph
Depending on what you have in those slots and whether you are swords/daggers ye.
plucky nymph
Yeah.
unkempt junco
Alright, thanks
Will put some work into it then
Wish I knew about it earlier though
plucky nymph
Research pays off.
plucky nymph
Either way you can still use boots/gloves/shoulder and w/e else depending on your current pieces.
Not the end of the world.
drowsy flare
hmm I wouldn't say "significantly" it's like 15-20dps
plucky nymph
Which is more than any singular weapon upgrade until KT, so... significant.
Unless you are daggers and going from Perds to DS 😐
drowsy flare
no it really shows that world buffs make up most of your dmg
eg, I did 1200dps last bwl, would doing 1215 or 1220 really be significant or beneficial to the raid in any way? for 1k gold?
drowsy flare
dont get me wrong i have 8/8 SC and i'm gonna make darkmantle, but i completely get anyone who skips it
plucky nymph
It is a significant gearing upgrade.
drowsy flare
not really
plucky nymph
Then what is?
Relevant to gear.
Also whether you are going for it or not really isn't relevant either.
drowsy flare
whats dumb as well is the default sim sheet timer for these boss fights that show the upgrade, is 75s
over a 30s fight, its less than 5 dps
plucky nymph
That's why you have to account for your experience.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
The set can also be very spikey and you end up on the lucky side of your parse.
desert hazel
AQ bossfights will be longer than current phase fights. Most people would, without a second thought, pay 1500g for DFT which isnt more of an upgrade than your 4 best darkmantle pieces
darkmantle is a bargain actually
raven snow
Paying Gold for DFT?
hidden basin
Got a bit confused there as well. Probably refering to boost runs putting items on gbid
desert hazel
its more hypothetical, even though there are many BWL auction runs (40 people run BWL, items are being auctioned and the whole gold that comes together is being split between the 40)
What I mean is that most people would not hesitate to pay a lot of gold for DFT which isnt giving you a bigger dps upgrade than T0.5 so I dont see any reason to complain about T0.5 costing money. It's definitely worth it
maybe my english just sucks, i'm not a native speaker 🙂
unkempt junco
Yeah I see your point
So farming 6 pieces of Shadowcraft minus the chest and Helm, can still get me 4 pieces of Darkmantle right? I can combine this 4 pieces with T2 untill I get the helm and chest T 2.5?
Is it still worthwhile using Darkmantle without the chest and helm?
desert hazel
yes but less
unkempt junco
The chest is really problematic for me to get
So lets say rough estimation, instead of 25dps increase I'll get 15?
desert hazel
I was lucky with the chest but have really bad luck with the pants and shoulders (50+ runs each, 0 drops)
unkempt junco
At least it's in 5 man dungeons, you can easily farm it until it finally drops
I mean you'll replace the helm and chest with T 2.5 anyway
desert hazel
I think you'll replace the set with full T2.5 only
unkempt junco
But yeah, of course you should go for the shoulders because you can't get the rest without them
desert hazel
I will get them before P5 🙂
desert hazel
and tbh, I dont think darkmantle gives a 25 dps increase, more like a 20 and without the best setup more like a 10 dps increase
unkempt junco
It's also rng based depending on the proc
unkempt junco
So if I use darkmantle without the helm and chest a rogue with the helm and chest will be very slightly above me if we are equal on performance?
desert hazel
I think if you go for darkmantle bracers instead of chest you lose some dps but not much, that could actually work
So if I use darkmantle without the helm and chest a rogue with the helm and chest will be very slightly above me if we are equal on performance?
@unkempt junco yes
unkempt junco
alright mate, you brought hope to me, I'll work to get 6-7 pieces now and if I don't get the chest I'll use it with bracer instead of chest
desert hazel
i think missing out on both head and chest is reducing the benefit to around half of the potential dps increase, even more if you have to use the belt slot and cannot use the amazing belt from AQ when it drops but that's a big IF 🙂
try getting at least the head slot if you cant get the chest
unkempt junco
yeah but in order to upgrade the head I need both head and chest, right?
desert hazel
I am an idiot, yes
desert hazel
sick
unkempt junco
Yeah guess that's the only problem with the set, people don't use darkmantle belt because they won't be able to have the proc when they replace it with this sick insane belt
desert hazel
i really only prio weapons and the belt (i am a dagger rogue)
unkempt junco
I see, I won't prio the weapon in AQ 40 because I hope I'll get Chroma before that
I'm swords
desert hazel
obv I also want the trinket but others can have it, I strife for the daggers first and the belt as soon as its available
unkempt junco
yeah good prio
desert hazel
ripper is nice but it's more important to have maladatha nd either ripper or chroma
desert hazel
we have the worst of luck... 0 maladath drops, poor sword boiz
unkempt junco
daamn
That's a lot of Chromas man
Nice
That's RNG for you, Mal and Chroma has the same drop chance according to stats
or a very similar one
desert hazel
yeah its just really weird 😄
maybe we're lucky today with maladath
we had 3 DFTs so far. since I would get it, it didnt drop no more. I wait for it since forever now hahaha but thats how it works, I'm fine 🙂
unkempt junco
Yeah, at the end of day is all about having fun with guild
drowsy flare
just go rank 14
hushed laurel
Pagle horde doesn't have a bracket 1 most weeks.
raven snow
What off hand weapon is BiS in phase 5 as a human sword rogue?
verbal shore
what do av afk bots gain from being in av without hks + bonus honor?
i dont see the point in it
signal ember
Rep?
desert hazel
the character sale market is emerging and many want to buy characters that are not just leveled but equipped to a certain standard, e.g. pre raid, ranked and/or basic pvp geared. AV exalted is a basic expectation for these people, thus the botters are interested in REP and at least a basic rank
rough salmon
I have 310 weapon skill with daggers. What should my hit goal be?
Getting mixed answers on google. Some say 1%, some say 5%, then the other stuff is 9% with 305
obtuse stirrup
Has anyone tested the dungeon set PPM on the Public Test server?
plucky nymph
Same as T0 AFAIK.
obtuse stirrup
Yeah that has been the assumption but I was wondering if anyone has actually tested it since PPM's have been super fucky in Classic
plucky nymph
There are people with it on PTR and no one has reported a different figure, so my assumption is that it's the same.
desert hazel
I have 310 weapon skill with daggers. What should my hit goal be?
@rough salmon @plucky nymph is right, mostly.
Many misunderstand the rule of thumb "hit to hit cap, then crit to crit cap"
even in my guild I have rogue brothers who dont understand it properly.
It's about priority but more hit is not a bad thing, definitely not in PvE.
I have 16% as well and aim for 18% until end of Phase 5. The main goal is not just less miss rate but to raise my crit cap.
I am now capped at 50.3% crit but I can get to ~53% crit full buffed, so I want more hit to get that crit working. if you dont hit, you cant crit 🙂
generally I suggest to go to around 10% hit and 45% crit full buffed. then start splitting crit/hit progress if possible
always be aware, that "hit" actually means "less miss". that is important to understand, there will always be dodge, there will always be (white)glancings, you cant do anything about those 2 (you cant reduce glancing blows just the negative effect of them) which makes hit even more important.
raven snow
hi guys, Lethality talent vs Relentless striking, im fully bis rogue bwl, is it 5/5 better vs 1 into RS 4/5 Lethal
desert hazel
hi guys, Lethality talent vs Relentless striking, im fully bis rogue bwl, is it 5/5 better vs 1 into RS 4/5 Lethal
@raven snow Hey man. Still stick to 4/5 Lethality and 1 RS, it's just way better. DPS difference, even with max P4 gear is around the effect of DFT vs HoJ
I would only really suggest to skip RS for 5/5 Lethality if your guild has incredibly short boss fights or if you want to min/max Vael
raven snow
tyvm!
raven snow
has anyone done naxx bis sims whats the dps difference between dagger and sword combat rush build
gentle reef
this pic was taken right before i stopped playing classic a few months ago
i do not miss farming for all these buffs
plucky nymph
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plucky nymph
You can get 99s without any world buffs though..
gentle reef
maybe now
plucky nymph
¯_(ツ)_/¯
gentle reef
the rank 1 rogue in my server used to be in my raid and he didnt get there without world buffs
plucky nymph
What to rank one or rank not asleep?
gentle reef
what
desert hazel
So you are here just to tell us to be happy not to be here anymore, correct?
undone scarab
I just got Preditions blade on my rogue in classic, +5 is the best enchant for MH?
drowsy flare
yeah
desert hazel
debatable. for pvp, it is. for raid dps I'd say crusader by a small margin
I run +5 as I value pvp more 🙂
undone scarab
What's the go to pvp spec for dagger rogues in classic?
cedar jewel
I used the imp sprint-prep build
It’s mainly down to preference
Here’s a CB-prep build: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305310125001-3203-05024303030011
desert hazel
for solo / open pvp I stick with the classic: https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/005320105-320302002-05024303030012
For Battlegrounds I play around with something like this (change it still to experiment)
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/30532012500135-3203-05023003
the idea is to focus on building up CPs and increase the drop burst by adding a flat 9% dmg received for the target through imp. kidney shot
I do not (yet) suggest to use this build but it's quite interesting and works well in high cadence / intensity group fights where relying on cooldowns is bad
desert hazel
@cedar jewel's builds work fine too. its down to taste to make some adjustments / set priorities
undone scarab
im new to classic rogue, is engineering and grenades pretty much a MUST have?
cedar jewel
Nothing is a must have
desert hazel
depends what you want to achieve. Imo yes
undone scarab
just stomp bgs really 😄
cedar jewel
It does make your life easier in pvp and helps you parse higher in pve
undone scarab
is there no point talenting into hemo?
cedar jewel
As daggers no
Hemo scales differently than other abilities, you want a slow weapon for it (usually a sword/mace)
undone scarab
that imp sprint build seems really good for solo play, never though about that combo
desert hazel
for PvE sapper are very nice if you want to have fast runs / high parses and it also helps you to keep your raid safer while transfering to the ID
for PvP it's quite a game changer actually. if you want to consistently be able to face 1v2 / 1v3 situations and dont die or even get some kills, engineering and investment in alchemy (no need to have the profession though) is unavoidable. Engineering gives you grenades, sapper, some very nice trinkets (i.e. the reflectors) and above that some more utility items
imp. sprint is an amazing talent for solo pvp. all CDss are great in BGs too but due to the high intensity they are less important. constant tools are more important. I play my rogue more versatile and sometimes more as a supporter in battlegrounds while in open pvp I prefer to have a lot of burst and immediate usability (read: cooldowns) at hand
but dont think about Seal Fate builds before you're geared well
undone scarab
once you get sick gear with daggers, seal fate is the way to go?
desert hazel
not just with daggers 🙂 I expect SF to be the goto builds for both pve and pvp around P6
for open pvp you probably still stick to the imp sprint build variations
undone scarab
Thanks for the advice man, can't wait to try this sprint build 😄
desert hazel
If you stick to imp sprint / prep for BG only usage I suggest to use Mackos Build with lowering CDs and getting crits after kills as you will get kills with the typical dagger burst.
for open pvp I suggest to use the one I posted as it gives you more burst and CPs and even if you face multiple enemies (which is the most fun imo) you will rely on control after the first bursty kill and for additional burst you stick to tea/renatakis
undone scarab
@desert hazel I found this guide by pshero on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe4IewvC2-M
this is the build hes using
this is the build he's using
geting 3/3 serrated blades but not going for hemo... interesting
desert hazel
yeah I know the vid and the build. You can play around with it, I find some of his statements odd though. imp. sprint isnt just good against mages, why would anyone think that 😄
I do see that pure battleground builds serve another purpose and at the time of his video, I wouldn't have stuck with a SF build but with my current gear Seal Fate works rather well. I also dont just kill squishies as he states, even though it's correct that this is one of our jobs in battlegrounds (WSG + AB, let's forget about AV for the moment except you run it with a group but if so, you shouldnt worry too much anyway) but we can offer a lot of sustained control too
I definitely value him trying out stuff instead of just picking a guide build, I play around every week, test stuff, experiment and so on, so thats totally fine and I can only encourage you to do the same 🙂
His build works but I would not suggest it, not at all
geting 3/3 serrated blades but not going for hemo... interesting
@undone scarab Hemo is pretty much useless for dagger rogues
I remember us testing it a lot in vanilla hahaha doesnt make sense.
Hemo Builds are amazing but you need the slowest possible weapon
signal ember
No point in taking serrated when you're not going to take up hemo imo.
Reason why you want serrated as hemo as hemo is just instant swing damage, so serrated blade buff all damage including hemo swing.
quiet prawn
5 set does not equate being able to get 2 full backstabs out right away without a small regen, 110 energy is pointless for daggers and no one specs into vigor
Personally i say clown suit with best stats so some bf some ns
drowsy phoenix
however, 110 energy does allow CS > BS > KS within two ticks
desert hazel
I played around with full T2 and clown. both works well. T1 set is ok but not really needed, you're way better off with using Renatakis and/or thistle than relying on those 10 energy on top you probably only going to have at hand once per fight as you usually dont cap back
pine birch
Oh sorry
chilly salmon
Hey Guys, i am currently dagger specced with perds and cht, if i decide to switch back to combat swords, what kinds of weapons should i use? I have Viskag for mainhand, which off hand should i take? Brutality Blade,hakkari off hand or cht?(no way to get cts and maladath at the moment guildwise)
desert hazel
what race are you mate?
chilly salmon
ah sry, undead
desert hazel
if you have no chance to get a grip on Maladath, you should definitely go for ZG offhand
it's clearly your best bet
chilly salmon
thought so,thanks brother
desert hazel
no problem, good luck on getting at range for Chroma/Mala 🙂
May I ask why you intend to move to 2nd tier swords instead of top tier daggers? whats the intention? Not blaming, there are many valid reasons
chilly salmon
i started off with swords(sword of zeal and mirah's song), on the second id we got the dagger gloves, nobody in the raid wanted them, so i decided fuck it let's go
but right now i am kind of burned out with daggers
desert hazel
I see. lack of fun is a good reason if it's fine for your raid/raidlead :)
you will probably gimp your raid though. lower geared sword rogues are interesting picks for the currently trending improved exposed armor meta, so if you dont value high parses anyway, you might opt in for that, serve your raid and play something fresh and fun
could be a nice unthought solution for your situation
chilly salmon
yeah right now we have a lot of dagger rogues and about 3 or 4 swords rogues, so it would be fine
desert hazel
Enjoy then 🙂
chilly salmon
thank you mate
pallid dirge
Thanks for the info
One more q: is darkmantle worth getting for pvp over bloodfang??
The energy regen seems really good
For dagger rogue
desert hazel
hell no 🙂 I like your thinking but that will not help you at all
you lose so much hp and the energy regen comes from sustain. you dont have uptime on your targets, even less as dagger, in pvp
best for pvp is clown while I personally enjoy roaming in full T2. I like the tankiness it provides 🙂
pallid dirge
What is clown??
desert hazel
What is clown??
@pallid dirge Mixing gear between several sets and off-set items
pallid dirge
Ahh okay thanks :)
pallid dirge
Ive noticed a lot of hemo rogues using daggers
Whats up with that?? Isnt hemo a sword spec??
desert hazel
I have not played around with dagger Hemo since Vanilla when I have written a guide about Hemo PvP but even so, I can't see it outside fun builds. e.g. lvl 1 gear troll builds
desert hazel
you can run daggers with a hemo spec for ambush for example. weapon swap works well
generally using daggers for hemo is something I would not recommend.
you would give up so much to make the "dagger" part of it viable while you have to go deep for hemo no matter what. Hemo simply as a debuff is way too expensive to get imo if you intend to use ambush/backstab as your tools of choice anyway
I can imagine some fun builds but viable over others? probably not 🙂
signal ember
Daggers and hemo does not work well. You want hard slow hitting weapon for hemo.
desert hazel
actually, the way hemo works, you want Teebu's Blazing Longsword for most fun 😄
pallid dirge
Yeah thats why
I was wondering what the hell was going on
At first i thought they were just equipping daggers for an ambush
But most of em had perd/cht or gutgore ripper
And went with the typical hemo stunlock instead of ambush opener
quiet prawn
Sometimes people are uncomfortable speccing into sub and not taking hemo lmao
Even the double dagger sub build doesn’t utilize hemo bc hemo and daggers is not good
signal ember
I have been rolling pvp daggers and I can destroy with group when Im not a focus target
desert hazel
Well...good for you then I guess :)
drowsy phoenix
the funny thing is, combat daggers has a spot at being the most effective build in BGs
desert hazel
depending on the team strat it can definitely work well, sure
signal ember
Yeah, I noticed lot of combat daggers in bgs lately
but having imp sap is so good for CC and controling the battle
Like if I see an assault incoming, I sap one of them
so it would be 4v3 for us, especially if I cc their healer and we have healer on our side
Not to mention Initiative being super good too with dirty deed
drowsy phoenix
it's just funny going ham on two people with backstab during AR flurry
desert hazel
yeah you are right @signal ember but it really matters how you play BGs
If you just random queue, nP, go for the best solo build, you'll have the most fun probably
if you play premade, you play and think differently.
combat dagger is nice in cleave setups for that beautiful early advantage for example
I prefer to play a support build (yeah you heard it right 🙂 ) in premade battlegrounds.
Seal Fate with imp kidney and imp expose armor
the idea is to push the group damage on targets, have endless CPs and actually just be the debuff bot for the warri spank crew
it's crazy good and a lot of fun for you and your team if you can live with not being that top shot in the kill sheet which I have no problems with
you still get your kills btw, dagger seal fate works pretty well if burst is needed too
signal ember
Even hemo/can is a support role with stuns and extra cc. It's just boiling down to your play style but as daggers, having imp sprint is just too good
desert hazel
yes, hemo is a good support build but not as potent for cleave (obviously) as combat and not as supportive as imp expose armor / kidney shot seal fate
quiet prawn
Rogues are gods for playing defense in AB
pallid dirge
Guys i know this q has been asked a thousand times over but hemo vs dagger pvp??
Id like to know what both are good at, which will shine after aq phase etc
drowsy flare
it's just a personal preference/stylistic difference
desert hazel
Guys i know this q has been asked a thousand times over but hemo vs dagger pvp??
@pallid dirge Hey man. depends on many factors, so I cannot answer that properly without knowing what you value most.
it depends on what and how you play (world pvp, random pug bgs, well organized premade bgs with pots etc, do you prefer to just roam alone and get kills for yourself or do you want to participate in group fights, etc.) and what gear you have access to.
if you have teebus and no chance on getting nice daggers, you might want to go for hemo, if you 're the only dagger rogue in your guild and will get Cthun dagger with no efforts next phase, you probably want to get into dagger.
It's really hard to give a proper reply without knowing more details about your situation.
If you ask for my personal preference, I clearly say dagger. classic imp sprint and seal fate dagger, i enjoy both but hemo is fun too
faint ether
Hey everyone, quick question. Is there an add-on or weakauras that helps tell when you are behind a character and ready for a backstab? Instead of having to spam the backstab button? I see a few use cases for it. 1) when the hit circle of a boss is large and you have to be moving in and out (Chromaggus for example). Knowing when I'm just behind will make sure I don't waste time 2) tight corners and corridors when there isn't space behind the enemy 3) aoe fights when I can't see much (maybe because my computer isn't great) if I'm not behind an enemy, I'll just switch targets until I find one I am behind
desert hazel
I dont think there is any
i'm not even sure if possible
but I cannot guarantee it, I might have missed something
signal ember
@desert hazel what's your sealfate build?
desert hazel
@desert hazel what's your sealfate build?
@signal ember Hey man. As I said, I use it mostly for support + for some regular burst whenever I can and kidney/exp armor is on CD.
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhebRxzAZGcZV0xc
that is a very straight forward version. There are many more options. you could go for imp sprint instead of ambush, you could go for elusiveness and initiative, there are fancy options but the above build is what I enjoy for peeling/supporting with some burst potential
signal ember
Hmm, I wish we were in TBC so we have extra 10 talent points to get imp sprint and rest in sub.
hushed laurel
BC wen
thick sinew
can rogues swap mh weapon in combat
hushed laurel
yes
desert hazel
can rogues swap mh weapon in combat
@thick sinew Everyone can, yes
desert hazel
you can swap out all 3 weapon slots at will
thick sinew
Thanks I was having trouble getting my macro to work but I figured it out
cunning birch
Is there no channel for SL class discussion and changes?
desert hazel
Is there no channel for SL class discussion and changes?
@cunning birch Hey man, wow-general is your best bet
gaunt tinsel
So hemo still top for pure wpvp?
desert hazel
So hemo still top for pure wpvp?
@gaunt tinsel Nah, I'd say imp. sprint dagger
drowsy phoenix
hemo rogues could never kill me, the damage is just pathetic without backstab imo
desert hazel
yep. imp. print dagger with engineering, renatakis and thistle tea melts 1v3 without much problems if you know what you do and keep your cool
half lichen
Any sword rogues mind if i whisper them and have a chat about my logs/rotation? Can't seem to parse about 90+%
desert hazel
Any sword rogues mind if i whisper them and have a chat about my logs/rotation? Can't seem to parse about 90+%
@half lichen Not necessarily an issue of your rotation.
Gear and world buffs matter a lot. if you have all elixir, buff food and world buffs up or not makes a difference of around 55% more damage output
Then there is your raid. If you are in a tryhard speedrun guild you will parse high even if you make mistakes as kill time has a huge impact on your dps obviously.
I am not playing sword atm and you clearly highlight you want to discuss it with a sword rogue, thats fine but keep the above in mind. it's good you want to learn, that is the right spirit but just be aware that your tank and raid in general have a huge impact on your own parse.
Also, typically it's not the rotation. In like 90% of the logs I analyze I find the general uptime first and the SnD uptime as a close second to be the most important factors
signal ember
Yeah as dagger, you would BS then snd with 1cp to get it rolling, right?
desert hazel
depending on the boss but usually, yes. 1cp SnD, then you could push for more CP with Renataki's and Thistle Tea or AR or you wait for crusader procs to pop them and go for 5/5 SnD
Vael you go 5CP SnD and keep BS
rich kelp
Hey guys, is it fine to level with the hemorrhage and cold blood pvp spec? Or is it gonna be dumb? It just looks a lot more fun. Also, swords or daggers?
desert hazel
Hey guys, is it fine to level with the hemorrhage and cold blood pvp spec? Or is it gonna be dumb? It just looks a lot more fun. Also, swords or daggers?
@rich kelp hemo works for leveling. its obviously slower than with the typical combat leveling specs but it works and it's quite fun. you will focus a lot more on getting one kill after another as you do not have access to flurry and AR but you will definitely be more versatile in pvp situations. I enjoy doing it 🙂
Hemo and cold blood is another story. technically it works but just be aware that it will only really be possible just before hitting 60, some levels before if you ignore imp. gouge
the earliest level possible would be 51 if I'm not too drunk to think
but with that you'd gimp yourself of dirty deeds (dont!) and, the third imp. sap point (that would be ok, not really smart but ok), imp. gouge (terrible decision) and worst of it all, prep.
I would definitely not recommend that.
Cold Blood is dope and all but it's a bit overrated too. dont give up utility (1.5s gouge duration increase is HUGE, Prep is your bread and butter in pvp) and energy (cheap shot -20 energy is pretty big in PvE and PvP during leveling and after)
So I suggest to go down the Sub tree to Hemo + Dirty Deeds + Prep, Combat until at least 3/3 imp. gouge, then slowly move down in the Assa tree and get cold blood near the end or the end.
Oh, and swords, dont go Hemo dagger, it's not worth it
rich kelp
@desert hazel Sweet! That's exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks a lot! 😄
desert hazel
No problem mate, have fun!
rich kelp
Will do 🙂
desert hazel
I just played around with a build and prio.
That's not the way to go if your low level but if you can immediately get to the 5th tier in Sub tree (till Hemo) that would work as you skip improved SS
there are options though
rich kelp
Also, if I were to stick to the normal combat build. Again, swords or daggers? Is it a big downside to not be able to use garrote and ambush in stealth, or should I have two swords and equip the dagger when in stealth (the way I do it atm)? Or maybe just go full daggers? I'm unsure. Also thanks for putting in the effort to help.
Taking a look 🙂
desert hazel
for leveling, I recommend swords for 2 reasons.
- there are good swords to get access to during the whole leveling process (by quests, e.g. thrash blade at 45)
- it's a lot more comfortable as you dont have to get behind your target. so if you want to use a dagger for ambush, you can weapon swap but I really recommend using cheap shot as your regular opener during leveling especially when you have dirty deeds. Garrote works well too. you dont need daggers for that
generally, cheap shot is your better bet as you lose less hp thus have less downtime overall
there's reason 3 but there's a big IF: If you intend to play sword in the endgame, you might stick to swords to be into the flow already
I personally am more of a dagger guy but both is fun 🙂
what level are you now?
rich kelp
I'm only 28 atm. I was kind of planning ahead of time though.
desert hazel
you're right doing so
wait till you respec until you're around lvl 40
if you respec to Hemo
otherwise you'll need imp. SS
level 35 would work
before ... not so much
I recommend 40+ for hemo
rich kelp
Would you say something like this is a good build to go after for now? https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fMxd0xxZG0Ez0Vzxdo
desert hazel
I find remorseless attacks overrated. also you dont really need improved poisons for leveling and you will respect at 60 anyway. depending if you're alliance, it might be ok but you definitely dont need it, not at all
I prefer aggression over weapon expertise during leveling, as weapon skill isnt that important when you level, it only really starts to shine in raids
I like that you pick Riposte. many guides dont consider it but it's a great talent/ability to level, especially if you're alone and it's nice in PvP too.
Talking about PvP (which seems important to you) spec into endurance and imp. sprint
Imp. sprint will make you a good hunter/mage killer while otherwise, without prep, you'd be screwed against them pretty much always
also dont underestimate Ruthlessness during leveling and in the later levels you'll be using SnD a lot so imp. SnD is pretty neat after lvl 3 SnD
some people swear sword specialization is THE SINGLE MOST Important talent
i disagree for leveling
it's dope but not that huge game changer people say. I would build it in but it's not a necessity
I found Riposte, even with 6 points invested, more useful
something like this should be fun for leveling + pvp
lethality isnt that important too, if you want to respend those 4 points you would not suffer much
rich kelp
Alright, I think that's it. Thank you so much! Hopefully I have everything covered now 😄
desert hazel
if you have any questions you can ask any time.
Check out main hand progression too, there are some decent swords out there but right now I think you're in a waiting period. at around 30something you'll get the next big thing out of the monastery and razorfen, you're set for a while then :)
Oh, and the biggest advice I could give: There are many weird guides out there, a lot of copy/paste bullshit and people talking about systems they dont understand (worst example: hit)
try to understand how your class works. rogue is not too complicated but it will help you to get the most out of fewer items on a long term 🙂
and dont trust people telling you, you dont want to have renataki's. you want it, even more as a pvp player, it's a game changer 😉
so start running ZG as soon as you can
rich kelp
Alrighty, sounds good. I'm running two of the Cruel Barbs, so the sword from Deadmines. Feels really strong, maybe I should have a faster off-hand, but this will do for now. Thanks 😄
desert hazel
your offhand speed will not matter while you level
signal ember
Yeah, don't worry too much about offhand for now tbh.
neon skiff
Hey guys, since I was forced to make a wow break, I finally have time to continue. My rogue is 40 atm and I don't know much about phase 2-4...I guess it's more general:
I'm leveling without any boosting and noticed, that pre bis farming will be pretty rough without paying boosts. Also i only find raids searching for furys... Since I wanna do both, pve and pvp (last one just für fun from time to time), is there any orientation for how to get geared on 60?do pvp rank up for gear or hope for a pug spot?
drowsy flare
join zg pugs, most of the zg stuff is really good for rogue
neon skiff
Are the gear requirements high for zg?
drowsy flare
some pugs will want to gear check, some are just looking for a random person to fill the spot, seems about 50/50 in my experience
nothing stopping you starting the pug either
desert hazel
Hallo @neon skiff 🙂 What server are you on?
Anyway, I can support the ZG idea. ZG PUGs usually dont care about your gear and if you run a proper raid spec you can still be quite valuable in there.
try to get the zandalar gear, the eye patch, renataki's if possible by any means (takes at least 6 weeks), the ringset + the epic ring, the hakkari OH and the dagger while the last one is rather hard to get if hunters are in your raid as they usually run for it
also hakkar heart reward isnt too bad either for catchup
You will also want to run normal instances to get T0 as with T0.5 you will be en par with most rogues soon when it comes to 4 slots but that might be a bit of work in a short time and it will also cost you around 2k overall
run AV for don julios ring and the dagger (and optionally for the 160g reduced epic mount costs)
I'm quite positive you'll also find a slot in some prio 3 runs for MC or even BWL if you stack at least some ZG/MC items
I would not recommend to grind for pvp rank items if you do not really enjoy that part and have the time at hand.
I love pvp but that grind never attracted me but that's just me 🙂
Wish you good luck and fun on your rogue. go maraudon at 45 to get thrash blade btw. it's easy to find a maraudon ID atm as many are running for nature resistance gear, so you might buy a princess kill for few gold if any
neon skiff
Thx for the short guide, made a Screenshot right away 🥳 I'm playing on venoxis alliance. I guess I will stick to that. I enjoyed pvp until wotlk, I enjoy those small 1v1 in open field and I will definetly go for that av farm!
desert hazel
yeah thought if you play on my server I could have support you gearing up but I'm not on Venoxis. Anyway, enjoy und viel Spass!
signal ember
Now all I do while I wait for raid is gank horde that have dmt and sunflower buffs when they come out of portal area in org.
desert hazel
Thats the spirit I guess :)
signal ember
desert hazel
world buffs aren't all that bad actually :)
It's the old little game of "what do you value most" mixed with "and why classic, not retail" and you'll end up finding out, world buffs have their share. a bit hidden but it's all there
wow classic is a chat with kill functionality and world buffs help to keep that damn chat alive 😄
signal ember
On netherwind, there's like 5-6 rogues including that we gank horde with dmf/see buff so sometimes it all of us or single but I also like to targets mages too because ezpz kill with my perd. I think I'm like the very few daggers rogue on netherwind.
The rivalry between horde/alliance rogues are fun as F. I called out two rogues saying they won't catch me within a week then in the same day I get killed by them.
tranquil rose
so i have a question, im level 49 atm and i have thrash blade in my mh but for OH i have sword of omen, i have firebreather in my backs and the dps on the weapon is higher but its slower and has no stats since it has the proc. should i stick with omen or would the firbreather be a noticeable upgrade
desert hazel
so i have a question, im level 49 atm and i have thrash blade in my mh but for OH i have sword of omen, i have firebreather in my backs and the dps on the weapon is higher but its slower and has no stats since it has the proc. should i stick with omen or would the firbreather be a noticeable upgrade
@tranquil rose I think the most viable answer is that it doesnt really matter at that point. Offhand isnt too important while leveling. Omen has those nice stats and breather has a bit more dps. You can run both and wont see a huge difference probably
the biggest thought I'd give it, is that breather's proc is bad for your gouge if you ever need in, be it in pve or pvp
offhand will be a topic in endgame, even more with offhand / future offhands such as maladath or C'thun dagger which are gamechangers
random karma
hello! New rogue here, decided to level one because i never have.
whats the deal with weps? slower main hand fast oh? or fast mh with faster OH?
desert hazel
slow MH, OH doesnt really matter during leveling, faster OH doesnt hurt tho
early on just stick to high dps until at around lvl 30+ at least
its not entirely the truth but a good guideline
tired carbon
sup team, is seal of jin+band of jin combined better than don julios+either/or? combat daggers [5/8 ns], ty
vivid pendant
I hope not 😅
tired carbon
lol
signal ember
I think 2x of the Tarnished Elven Ring is bis until raid rings
desert hazel
Depends on what you consider raid. Its BiS for raiding until ZG
random karma
@desert hazel tyvm!
final jewel
Looking for some help for a friend, he is leveling as rogue, currently lvl 22, and struggling to dps in dungeons
Main rotation is backstab/ambush, then slice and dice, then sinister strike and wait for energy, i checked his upkeep on S&D and it was only 20% in our SFK run, which i assume is low
any tips on how he can raise his dps while leveling?
signal ember
It doesn't really matter that much, but for leveling wise, it's easier as combat sword. At least in classic, energy Regen is consistent the same while leveling.
final jewel
Alright, i told him it might be better to swap specs
he was on dagger build from icy veins
plucky nymph
Works just fine.
desert hazel
Yeah what @plucky nymph posted is perfectly fine.
It works best for questing, grinding and instances.
Dagger for leveling isnt something I'd recommend to a beginner and definitely not as early as lvl 22
tired carbon
so seal of jin+don julio is superior to soj+band of jin (inc. set bonus)? w/ aged core leather gloves, hit capped
ty for the above replies also =]
desert hazel
so seal of jin+don julio is superior to soj+band of jin (inc. set bonus)? w/ aged core leather gloves, hit capped
@tired carbon Hey njNja. No, that is not the case. The 2 set rings together are better than SoJ + Julios
brazen dew
for tbc what was the best pvp spec as of 2.4.3 assuming you had warglaives
desert hazel
for tbc what was the best pvp spec as of 2.4.3 assuming you had warglaives
@brazen dew thats quite a weird question. it really depends on your comp.
anyway, I think a Hemo/Shadowstep build made sense for glaives too. I never had them so I might be the wrong guy to tell but that time around shadowstep was dope
I personally played shadowstep or muti depending on my role and playstyle
half lichen
Hey boys, quick question because there's a lot of debate in the guild.
Is the Shadowcraft set (Darkmantle) worth it for the next phase or not?
Lets say someone is 6/8 BF, would it be worth getting the darkmantle 4 piece?
When i last checked here (awhile ago) , it seemed pretty unanimous that everyone should get it. Now apparently its not simming too well.
Any help?
desert hazel
Hey @half lichen
Short answer is: Get it asap, it'll be worth it pretty sure but only if you get the best pieces and if you're well worldbuffed/buffed in your raid, which pretty much everyone will be who even cares for the set.
It's actually pretty cheap for what it delivers so I'd say its a no brainer
There is a longer answer though. Depending on how fast you collect T2.5 tokens in your raid (most rogues will be 2nd or sometimes even 3rd prio after all 1st / 2nd prio class players get their stuff) and what spec you play, it might be worth less.
It's trickier for dagger rogues especially on horde side to get most out of the set. It's more RNG which some people dislike (I dislike it but darkmantle is "stable" enough to be considered an "OK RNG") and for some people its just really messed up to farm (for me, for example. after over 100 kills each I still dont have even seen the T0 shoulders and legs which kinda sucks hahaha)
But generally I strongly suggest to get it, it's amazing having such a big dps increase just lying there waiting to be collected without the need of raiding or whatever, it's just really instance grind and a bit of mats (roughly 1500 gold worth in total, i'd say even less)
signal ember
I'm ramping my runs for shoulders, pants and helm after accidentally ninja the chest that I was helping my rogue friend. Needed it so I can trade but no trade function.
But we finally got it again today after like 15 ubrs runs. Made lot of gold with now drop.
But yeah I would advise it, clown set with .5 and off pieces or T2 are good until 2.5 where warriors get dibs on the pieces.
left ice
How good is pugio as an offhand for Human Sword Rogues? Is it better than BB/ZG OH? How does it compare to Ravencrest?
half lichen
@desert hazel Thanks mate!
pulsar pike
is there like in classic as a rogue if you don't pve?
If I get 60 and just go straight into PVP. I live in Sweden and play on a US server, won't be able to join a guild and be a core raider, since there is a 6 hour difference between the zones.
desert hazel
playing on a EU server is no option?
PvP for gear is a grind, it's really ridiculous and you will need access to gear.
regarding raiding, there are plenty of PUG raids, many do prio3 raids and stuff, you probably find access to raid gear which usually is also really good for pvp
if you want to start the grind, it's not that bad getting to rank 10 nowadays, which will kinda gear you good enough to have fun
I think PvP content in classic can be fun but I would not suggest pure focus on it to anyone if they are not enjoying the ranking grind
pulsar pike
thanks for the heads up man. Can you talk a little bit more about this grind in pvp? I don't know much about it
sorry.
desert hazel
the pvp system in classic works with ranks. what you need to do to rank up is gain points and it always counts all players who participated in pvp each week after a certain (low) threshold.
the higher you want to get in rank the more points you need compared to other players. there usually is a discord per server per faction to regulate and sometimes cheese it with others.
simplified it means you just have to play and you have to play a lot. Typically you can not just have fun with world pvp but have to grind battlegrounds which can be tricky if you dont have access to a premade. If you have, it's a lot easier.
you get better gear as you rank up but rank up only happens every wednesday. useful gear starts at around rank 6 if I'm right, except the trinket which is useful to some classes (as an undead rogue I rarely have it equipped)
with rank 10 (of 14 max) you get access to a full blue gear set which is actually pretty nice but doesnt live up to the epic set or PvE alternatives in most cases, you get enough stamina though, which is dope and needed in todays bursty meta (i kill most people in a stunlock thanks to renataki's charm of trickery, so do other classes such as ret, MS warris, some casters)
pulsar pike
Terrific explanation. Thank s a lot man.
desert hazel
anytime 🙂
plucky nymph
Tuesday yeah.
cedar jewel
Tuesday US, Wednesday EU. After server reset
desert hazel
And I still havent seen shoulders and pants after around 200 kills d'uh XD
sturdy pier
Where can I find good resources to actually min-max?
i.e. someone told me for example that if you activate AR during 2nd half of energy tick you get an extra energy tick when it expires
pretty much the information that turns a 97 parse into a 99 (so to speak)
desert hazel
Where can I find good resources to actually min-max?
@sturdy pier Hey man, I definitely recommend @real arch . His site ( https://classicroguecraft.com/ ), Twitch- and Youtube channel and his Discord
https://discord.gg/qGy9jK
He is by far the most reliable source out there all things added and he has some of the best progress/speedrun rogues in his community, such as fjeenzy
Sno is very active too, he's a friendly guy and supports his community on eye level, no arrogance, no unnecessary selfmarketing, just a dude bringing the facts and explaining shit
we can help you out here but if you want replies from some of the best guys out there, that's the place to be
desert hazel
thats the spirit!
sturdy pier
oh wow thats a great resource. Thanks a lot I've been reading like mad 👍
pulsar pike
Hey guys,
I am leveling as combat Swords. I am level 18 now and I have a white Gladius with Fiery Weapon on it. It is speeding up my killing time a lot.
But until when? When should I let it go and get another green for my main hand?
plush vigil
At lvl 18 you can head to deadmines with a group and try getting cruel barb from Edwin
That sword will last you many levels
Barb is not unique so you can farm 2 of them
sturdy pier
Whats the avg AV queue time on horde-side for you guys?
pulsar pike
a Cruel Barb is better than the Gladius with the enchantment then?
desert hazel
oh wow thats a great resource. Thanks a lot I've been reading like mad 👍
@sturdy pier Yeah I dont like to suggest Sno to people still asking for beginner stuff, he wont find much time to cover that but his ressources are really good and indepth and I can fully approve that it's correct.
His Sims are what they are: Simulations, so there might always be room for deviations from reality but we are all in the same boat with that
a Cruel Barb is better than the Gladius with the enchantment then?
@pulsar pike As Horde you could do this quest: https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=909/baron-aquanis
otherwise, as Dekart said, go for Cruel Barb
You can also check the AH, you'll find some cheap greens there with a bit of luck
pulsar pike
Thanks man. Unfortunatelly I am playing for alliance, won't be able to do that. Will try 2 Cruel barbs then. Thanks
desert hazel
you'll be happy with it but dont spend too much time to get a 2nd one. during leveling OH shouldnt be your main concern, definitely not at that low level
pulsar pike
I thought that this gladius was a great thing, but apparently not xD
thanks for the tips. Will try to find a group today and go for it.
desert hazel
are you in a guild? ask a mage to AoE push you through 🙂
pulsar pike
no no, but I have a friend that may be able to help me with that 😄
desert hazel
very good, ask him, it's worth it :)
during the time searching for a deadmines group you can make 2-3 levels 😄
pulsar pike
since we are talking about leveling, the way to go as rogue is questing right?
desert hazel
yep
you will, to maximize speed, have to grind out a few times to get to your next even level before heading back in a city but thats micromanagement, you can also just quest :)
If you dont know good routes or when to leave and come back to a zone, there a re good guides out there.
I usually promote nightfalls for my guild (horde) but there are good alliance level guides out there as well
signal ember
Now I have a bounty on my head for being a boof slayer.
desert hazel
you'll get used to it 🙂
signal ember
They got me 5 times yesterday when I was trying to fly out of BL, then sniped me in SW when I was about to log.
pulsar pike
Is it ok to level with 1 sword and 1 dagger?
or should it be 2 daggers or 2 swords?
And another thing, sorry. When should I cast sinister strike? After the Main hand attack? is there a way to track this better, like with a meter or something? addon?
signal ember
You just want the highest dps for leveling, offhand doesn't matter, ideally fast weapon but not game breaking
and there's swing addon but that only apply if you're running sword spec.
desert hazel
and there's swing addon but that only apply if you're running sword spec.
@signal ember meaning, only with Sword Specialization Talent, w/o that its completely useless during leveling
signal ember
Yeah and its small % damage increase as well.
You're just basically fishing for more auto swings
Rather to pump as daggas
desert hazel
yeah makes sense in raid as there's no reason not to do it if you're not piss drunk or stoned but during leveling, I only really suggest it to get the feeling for the timing
signal ember
even when I was sword, I don't use the addon, i just keep my eyes on my swing animation
desert hazel
I have it as part of my WA setup with snd, above would be a crusader proc notification if I had one, energy ticks and energy, CPs and the red marked one is my swing timer
desert hazel
if you have any questions, just ask
pulsar pike
what are, like the 3 most basic ones for rogue
desert hazel
Rogue specific? Poisoner, Nug Energy and I suggest Plater Nameplates
pulsar pike
thanks
desert hazel
I made some basic paints notes in the printscreen from before to highlight some addons
😅
its really silly but maybe helpful
desert hazel
its by far not all but some of the more visible ones
and yeah, I forgot to swap my pvp gear to pve 😄
dapper lodge
are we speccing out of murder for aq
dapper lodge
this is what im probably gonna spec for aq, any suggestions? (human rogue) https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305303105-3200152020050150131
pulsar pike
i hate that curse is now on twitch. I can't find the addons I want on the app
jesus christ
@desert hazel last thing, I PROMISE! hahahahaha
Is there a place where I can find how to setup Weak Auras for a rogue? I am pretty new to it and don't know how to optimize the Addon.
desert hazel
are we speccing out of murder for aq
@dapper lodge Yes
@desert hazel last thing, I PROMISE! hahahahaha
Is there a place where I can find how to setup Weak Auras for a rogue? I am pretty new to it and don't know how to optimize the Addon.
@pulsar pike https://wago.io/classic-weakauras/classes/rogue
you'll find shitloads of importable WA scripts here.
try with existing ones, there are amazing ones out there. mostly for endgame
Luxthos made some nice ones
Threat Warning is kinda nice for raiding
pulsar pike
Ty!!
desert hazel
i hate that curse is now on twitch. I can't find the addons I want on the app
@pulsar pike there is an app, it's just the twitch app and yeah, it sucks but its the best we got I guess
tired carbon
@tired carbon Hey njNja. No, that is not the case. The 2 set rings together are better than SoJ + Julios
@desert hazel ty ❤️
raven snow
Dagger rogue, currently have the T1 shoulders & Bracers but thinking about using the ZG shoulders & bracers . I’d lose 0.43% crit Chance, but I’d gain 21 AP. Is 21 AP worth giving up 0.43% crit ?
half yew
1 crit is only about 23-ish AP in value, so probably
fallen depot
i'm a bit confused about weapon differences. sword rogue. Krol Blade (40.9 dps 80-149dmg, 1% crit, speed 2.8) is supposed to be better than Bloodlord's Defender (48.2dps, 64-119dmg, speed 1.9). I kinda get that sinister is based off the top weap dmg per swing, but like, is that plus 1% crit big enough to make up for approx 7dps on a faster weap?
half yew
Raw weapon DPS only goes so far. Dropping from 149 topend to 119 would (ballpark) reduce SS by a good 50-70 per swing non-crit.
I would guess that Krol is still better, but you can always plug it into one of the active spreadsheets on the Classic Rogue discord
desert hazel
Krol Blade is by far better with its higher avg damage, I wouldnt see a scenario where it's not
runic sand
So, I hit 60 on my rogue this weekend and am going through the pre-raid BiS lists. I'm noticing that ZG doesn't really come up in these. Aside from the oh sword, is there anything in ZG I should roll on? I'm hesitant to roll on stuff like armor tokens if they're not really good for rogues.
desert hazel
So, I hit 60 on my rogue this weekend and am going through the pre-raid BiS lists. I'm noticing that ZG doesn't really come up in these. Aside from the oh sword, is there anything in ZG I should roll on?
@runic sand Hey mate, in advance congratulations to your Ding 60 🙂
Please do not simply follow those BiS lists, many are not well maintained or just simply wrong. Try to understand what makes good items, how they interact with each other sometimes and stuff like that. It'll help you on the long run
To answer your question about ZG: There are plenty of great items for you as a fresh 60
Madcap Set is rather good and right now the shoulder is even BiS if you pair it with Renataki's Trinket (which will at least cost you 6 weeks to get so you better get prepared. for pure PvE it will be replaced soon though, in PvP it remains godlike)
There's also the Eye Patch which is pretty dope, it's almost as good as T2 head (Foror'^s Eyepatch or something like that)
The Ring Set is pretty neat too (Band & Seal of Jin)
Hakkar has a nice dagger which is contested by hunters usually though.
And, most important, get up that rep and those idols for the enchants, they stay relevant over the phases
as a fresh 60 I suggest you do not focus just on collecting the BiS lineup and even less the ones on some prominent sites. My suggestion is to focus on farming T0 to upgrade it to T0.5 next phase as this will solve you 5 slots immediately while trying to get good but not BiS gear you can easily obtain, such as ZG/MC/Ony and some less contested BWL gear
For rogues, it's a very good catchup phase right now with our strong T0.5 and the good items we can get out of ZG (and for dagger rogues AQ20)
runic sand
Thanks for the advice.
I do have an additional question about weapons. I'm currently sword spec with thrash blade mh and mirah's song (scholo quest reward sword oh). How does thrash blade compare to some of the other swords I see recommended (Dal'Rends; Sword of Zeal; Zulian Slicer; etc)?
desert hazel
it doesnt stand a chance
dal rends MH, without it's set bonus, offers so much more avg dmg (it's good enough to look at the max dmg but actually we're talking about the avg dmg) than Thrash and while the proc is nice, it's not as reliable as having constantly more dmg with every swing and even more important SS
runic sand
thanks
swift narwhal
Anyone have a decent leveling build that can lead into a pvp build?
pulsar pike
Is there any good advantage in "twinking" (don't know if this is the correct term)?
I mean, is it worth it to stop at lvl 29, for example, instead of leveling to 60
sturdy pier
worth it for what?
fun? feeling OP in bgs?
if you want to stop at any arbitrary point to do whatever you want to do I think it's worth it 😄
desert hazel
Anyone have a decent leveling build that can lead into a pvp build?
@swift narwhal Hemo works from around lvl 35+
What @sturdy pier means is 'no' ;-)
Seriously tho. He is exactly right
sturdy pier
depends what kind of advantage you are expecting tho, speed advantage? no, honor farming advantage? probably not either
desert hazel
I would not recommend it if you do not intend to only play on that lvl and twink yourself to the lord almighty for newb farming
If so it would make more sense to stop at a *9 lvl, e.g. 39
depends what kind of advantage you are expecting tho, speed advantage? no, honor farming advantage? probably not either
@sturdy pier not at all :) there is no advantage really
Pvp twinking can be fun but costs a lot
sturdy pier
not in the objective sense
yeah if you want to do real twinking you better have a main/alt to supply
desert hazel
Yep
swift narwhal
Was thinking of running mostly down combat tree until hemo yeah
With a couple in assassination but figured SnD leveling with adrena is faster
pulsar pike
Thanks guys. Always nice to read the inputs. Wish more people asked more questions here in the Classic area.
swift narwhal
I just started
desert hazel
Was thinking of running mostly down combat tree until hemo yeah
@swift narwhal my suggestion for leveling is to go full combat / max efficiency and with 60 and semi decent gear start respecing.
If you, like me, play for pvp though, a hemo respec at around 40 can be a lot of fun.
I did level with pvp dagger too but its way slower. If you find it fun tho, dont let that be a factor, enjoy the game the way you like it
swift narwhal
aye thanks
verbal shore
If i do Onyxia today (EU), will it be reset in time to do it again on thursday?
jaunty stump
For our frost weapons for AQ, what are the best enchants for them? More frost damage? Or Crusader / Agil?
plucky nymph
The enchants do not matter in the slightest.
signal ember
Just grab daggers from RFD off last boss. Took me like 7 resets to get both. They're very good because of frost proc and it's one of the fastest weapons for shattering.
Damage have no impact on the encounter until p3 where you aoe the blobs.
P1 is just freezing, P2 is just swing attack much as possible to shatter.
desert hazel
Just grab daggers from RFD off last boss. Took me like 7 resets to get both. They're very good because of frost proc and it's one of the fastest weapons for shattering.
@signal ember yep. Best would be hammer of northern wind though. Best PPM
2nd best is coldrage dagger and you dont have to grind your mace skill and its easily farmable
signal ember
Yeah there's like no point in spending gold on hammer if you have lot of mages frostbolting imo as well.
desert hazel
I dont expect it to be a tough encounter nowadays. Huhuran probably but visc...I dont think so
And speedrun guilds will rush huhuran too. From day 1 on without any NR just pure burst. With GNRP shes dead meat before pushing much dmg
For casual guilds it will look different. AQ will be the first raid where you will have some issues carrying really bad players
Until now its chill
signal ember
You actually need certain amount of NR to soak based on what I heard on PTR. 15 players need to have like 160 NR to soak.
jaunty stump
@signal ember With or without buffs? (MotW, AoN, etc.)
unkempt wigeon
hello guys. Sorry for my bad english. Have any way to calculate your dps with different stuff like furysim for wars ?
plush vigil
Hammer goes up to 300g on my server so probably coldrage
desert hazel
I stick with daggers. Hammer is a bit better but not necessary
plucky nymph
Imagine not being a HotNW a year ago, hahaaaaaaaaaaaa 😐 just use Codrages.
desert hazel
I definitely suggest to get 2 coldrage daggers. some speculate on enchants or some +frost dmg weapons.
I think (and would bet on it) they dont work
plucky nymph
Any weapon that has +ELEMENTAL_DAMAGE doesn't actually DO that kind of damage.
The added damage is influenced by resists/shields/barriers but is considered physical and does damage as such.
signal ember
Dmg doesn't matter as mages will be using R1 bolt anyway
plucky nymph
or wanding
desert hazel
I meant that some people think weapons with +1-5 frost dmg for example work as well. They won't
pulsar pike
Hey guys, is it worth to use Remorseless Attacks while leveling?
desert hazel
yeah can work. I personally didnt use it but its not bad at all
pulsar pike
I am checking Kargoz talent tree to level as a rogue. Dont know if it is optimal or not.
"Start in Combat Tree:
2/2 Imp. Sinister -> 3/3 Imp. Gouge -> 5/5 Deflection -> 1/1 Riposte -> 5/5 Precision -> 4/5 Dual Wield Spec -> 1/1 Blade Flurry -> 5/5 Dual Wield Spec -> 4/5 Sword Spec -> 2/2 Weapon Expertise -> 5/5 Sword Spec -> 1/3 Aggression -> 1/1 Adrenaline Rush
Proceed into Assassination Tree:
2/2 Remorseless Attacks -> 3/5 Malice -> 2/2 Murder -> 1/3 Imp. Slice -> 5/5 Lethality -> 5/5 Imp. Poisons"
sorry for the long message
desert hazel
yeah why not, it will work, nothing bad about that path
pulsar pike
😄 thanks death
restive horizon
there's no quests/rep grind for ravenholdt worthwile right ?
even as a rogue ?
except for 1 quest at lvl 50 or so?
plucky nymph
Nawp.
restive horizon
Feelsbad
swift narwhal
@desert hazel why am i killing shit faster with 1 sword (blackwater cutlass) than 1 sword and 1 mainxhand mace
Like incredibly noticable diff
plucky nymph
Stuff not leveled?
fair carbon
Also because your accuracy while dual wielding is much lower
hexed spoke
has anyone tested out proc rates for the 4 piece set bonus of the 0.5 set. I have been trying it out a little and it seems like its greater than 1ppm as a sword rogue
i dont have any raw numbers to support it though.
plucky nymph
Same as SC.
shut dagger
@hexed spoke
sub 1 minute fight
6 procs
Have a 2 minute fight, with 13 procs as well
So 6 ppm kinda, if you have "abit" of luck
desert hazel
Crazy shit
I am still working on it. These things take a moment longer with a kid :) Will be testing thoroghly this weekend and share my results
@shut dagger thanks for sharing mate :)
plucky nymph
There's no need to test Darkmantle 4p as it shares the same spellID with the Shadowcraft 6p and has the same information tied to it.
~6ppm, without any of the really awful SC stats
SC 6p was already competitive
desert hazel
Test procs only is possible with SC. Test dps is a different story
plucky nymph
Nah we have weights and general DPS pretty hammered down, there's no real mystery there so long the proc works as assumed (which it does), the stats aren't magic or shifting in any way.
desert hazel
The proc works and all is fine. What I witness in all groups I work, many people underestimate the worth of hit on offset items when it comes to darkmantle.
If you only copy the math/sims others have done with current state BiS gear but you dont have that gear (luckily, I have it anyway) it might look quite different. Hit has quite an impact on dm procs as it works with open procs with no internal cooldown. So if you neglect that sweet hit your miss is too high to properly gain advantage from potential procs
plucky nymph
I am not really interested in the hit woes of others 😐
desert hazel
Why I mention hit on offset gear specifically is as many not BiS geared ppl lack hit on these offset items thus lose hit when swapping out for DM
I am not really interested in the hit woes of others 😐
@plucky nymph well, we try to support each other in here aren't we :)
And obviously I didnt mean you. Pretty sure you're doing fine with your knowledge
plucky nymph
If someone is under cap then they are under cap and have a problem that need to solve. DM is likely still better than w/e gear someone is using even if they are JUST riding the hit requirements.
The 6p is likely better than w/e they might be using if their hit is that low.
desert hazel
Yep just much closer
plucky nymph
and no, so long you are above the hit cap ~10 extra Sinister Strikes is better than just about anything else, or what like... 4-6 backstabs?
Unless you are somehow magically under the hit cap while being Combat I cannot see it being worse even if you are just at the hit cap somehow.
desert hazel
Thats not what I mean. I mean you will have less procs and less benefits from darkmantle.
The more you miss the less procs you have. DM counts in white hits
plucky nymph
Yes but 20% miss on a potential 10 SS's is still 8 now free SS's.
and the hit rate, crit rate, and converted AGI are all taken into account for your current Hit Rating and the given proc chance of the set.
desert hazel
Example. This dude here has a high miss rate in his table because of low hit on offset items. It gimps his procrate
I dont try to say DM is worse. I say its more potent with strong hit offset items
With DM hit above softcap is even more powerful now
plucky nymph
That 5dps is... not important... in any way.
Has someone tested with 25% hit?
If possible, don't think so.
plucky nymph
Variance is going to eat it up and you will never see it, is the point.
desert hazel
Its simmed. So its an average value anyway. But he could go higher with proper items
plucky nymph
Aiming for higher averages is still important though.
Obviously.
You're gonna have to break 1% to see any meaningful gain from pull to pull though.
and I don't think you're gonna find another .5%.
Meebee though.
desert hazel
For dagger rogues its going to be a bit trickier anyway
plucky nymph
Ye.
desert hazel
I expect high variance especially for (us) dagger rogues
plucky nymph
Also this doesn't show a DM4p set with lower hit versus a DM4p set with higher hit 😐
desert hazel
As we dagger rogues can have some wasted energy too but we will manage it
plucky nymph
It does lose ~70ap which is a lot of the loss DPS.
desert hazel
Nope I was lazy on my phone just copy/pasting this dudes pic
plucky nymph
mmk
desert hazel
I have higher dps gain from DM
plucky nymph
Ye 5 is rather poor.