There are some Arathi Basin pieces that are nice but then you're not in T1 by then sooo
#classic-discussion
plucky nymph
past violet
there is a killer ring available when exalted stormpike in AV BGs. It replaces one of your Tarnish rings.
past violet
still better than blue rings
and as exalted, you get The Lobotomizer dagger too. 47.2 dps and chance for 200-300 dmg hit
plucky nymph
"better" by like, 2 dps
dry birch
to be fair, most mc upgrades are 1-5 dps upgrades 😛
plucky nymph
Yeeeep
plucky nymph
Nope.
shadow tapir
Sounds really dumb actually
plucky nymph
Considering Quel'serrar exists, and all the daggers, and TF, and blah blah blah.
Pretty dumb.
ocean parrot
Yep that was my thought
Sigh my feeling exactly
Ah well
Sword of zeal will have to do for now
plucky nymph
Not gonna drop anyway :3
ocean parrot
Lol
tough pilot
Insanely dumb. Yeah
graceful tendon
what are some good rogue mods people using?
craggy blaze
Could a gutgore outperform a thrash blade (dagger build vs sword build)?
plucky nymph
1.5k Shazz parse, 4head.
plucky nymph
Yeah will have to check the log for his fucking miss rate 😐
past arrow
anyone know is numbing stacks with mortal Strike?
plucky nymph
Should not.
past arrow
sorry wound
ocean parrot
gutgore just dropped
we are allowed one drop
do i roll?
using sword of zeal and mirah's song
raven snow
Why would anyone want that shit when you could get Perds+CHT lmfao
dusk crystal
just get it
dark plank
Hey, I got a question about Hit Cap. So, I know 9% is hit cap for yellow damage, but as rogues do dual wield the cap for white damage is actually 22%.
So everyone needs 9%, but all BiS list actually go over 9%. So, for example as Combat Swords, do you just try to get all the HIT you can? Or is there a number you want to get to, or you have to compare depending on what you have up to that point?
karmic jetty
Hey Everyone,
New to the discord. I heard there was a dps spreadsheet here to calculate based on gear input. Anyone have the link? I've been looking through Pinned messages.
karmic jetty
ahhhhh that's probably it! Thanks man.
maiden cave
@dark plank it's 6% for yellows if you have 305 Weapon Skill, 9% if you only have 300 (you should always have at least 305 for PvE).
As for BIS lists, they don't 100% go for hit %, it's just that hit % is often a quite good stat to get for DPS due to the fact that it's quite undervalued when it comes to itemization in WoW Classic.
There is no "number" you want to get, you just want to use the best pieces available. Also, 6pc SC is pre-bis.
dark plank
Yeah i know it's 6% if you get to the 305 WS. Which, everyone should get either with talent or items.
My question was more in how do would you weight Hit% after that 6%(9%) since it's not wasted since your white damage benefits from it..
maiden cave
you use the DPS Spreadsheets mentioned above
it's valued just under crit %
How do I compare stats for PvE raiding?
You should use the #dps-spreadsheets because the stat weights change depending on your gear/buffs/group composition/etc.
If you don't want to/can't use use the DPS spreadsheet, here are some example stat weights that are fairly average across the board that will work for most people in most situations:
AP 1.00
Agility 1.75
Strength 1.00
Crit 22.00
Hit 18.00```😄 perfect thanks
maiden cave
but obviously spreadsheets give you much better values!
dark plank
i might be going blind, but wheres the #dps-spreadsheets ?
maiden cave
on the other discord
dusty dagger
Anyone know a decent weapon swap macro for backstab? Lvling a rogue and I'd like to swap my main hand sword with off hand dagger, cash backstab, and then switch back. But I can't seem to get it to work, it always tries to cast backstab before the swap completes
The only thing I have right now is this which is just a swap macro, only carries out the first 2 lines, and if the macro is ran again, it swaps back. It doesn't run through all 4 commands
/equipslot 16 War Knife of Power
/equipslot 17 Northern Shortsword of Stamina
/equipslot 17 War Knife of Power
/equipslot 16 Northern Shortsword of Stamina
plucky nymph
So there's a few methods of doing this in macros and people seem to either be on the side of;
Putting weapon swaps BEFORE the attacks (equip dagger, then ambush)
or
Putting weapon swaps AFTER attacks (enter stealth+equip dagger, ambush THEN switch back)
eg.
dusty dagger
Hmmm, so it can't do the whole cycle in one action? I'm low lvl right now and only use it after gouging enemy so I'm rarely in stealth
plucky nymph
I have a skinning macro similar to yours that seems to work fine.
dusty dagger
I'll toy around a bit more
plucky nymph
dusty dagger
For example, this swaps the weapons, casts stealth and then that's it
It seems the ability to swap back is never carried out
plucky nymph
I prefer the method of putting the weapon on when you enter Stealth and taking it off if you hit stealth again, eg.
You just have to hit it again.
dusty dagger
Yea
plucky nymph
There also might be issues if one item CANNOT be an offhand.
plucky nymph
I just did this and it works fine >_>
1 press switches them, another switches them again
dusty dagger
Aye, that's my current solution, my end goal is to only press once and have it switch them twice
dusty dagger
I think it's a limiting factor of the game else people would be spamming it for weapon specific skills
plucky nymph
They wouldn't be spamming it because you don't have enhancements for those abilitie s.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
You can do that now by just putting your dagger equip before your Backstab in a macro, then putting the sword equip before your SS.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plucky nymph
That's how my above two macros work, DaggerEquip+Stealth, Ambush+SwordEquip
dusty dagger
Ah, don't think it works, as I still need to do the change before backstab, it won't carry out the swap THEN backstab in one 'click' of the macro
plucky nymph
Yeah it will.
er, should.
If you are trying to EQUIP+ABILITY+EQUIP then again, not gonna work.
Needs two presses.
dusty dagger
Hold on, in flight, I'll test the following:
/equipslot 16 War Knife of Power
/equipslot 17 Northern Shortsword of Stamina
/cast Backstab
Then for SS:
/equipslot 16 Northern Shortsword of Stamina
/equipslot 17 War Knife of Power
/cast Sinister Strike
plucky nymph
Do note that the In Combat Weapon Swap triggers the GCD, so you won't get a Backstab immediately.
dusty dagger
Ok, SS works perfectly, but backstab macro still needs double pressing because it complains no dagger in mainhand during the time it takes to switch
Aye
plucky nymph
Yeah because you are trying to Backstab without a dagger in hand :3
This is why Ambush is where this stops being a thing.
If you were to say, Gouge and hit the Equip+BS macro ASAP you can cut off most of the GCD wait time.
dusty dagger
Yea, well, thanks for your help mate
Really appreciate it!
Worst case, I just lvl as dagger combat build 😄
plucky nymph
Looks weird as such;
If you wanna use Ambush to open this is super smooth because you are equiping the weapons BEFORE combat, Ambush+Switching so it's a LOT less awkward.
dusty dagger
Yea, that's likely going to be my end result once I lvl up a bit more
dusty dagger
Yea, thats what I'm gonna go for, thank you!
plucky nymph
#showtooltip Gouge
/cast Gouge
/equipslot 16 [DAGGER]
/equipslot 17 [NON-DAGGER]
Backstab as normal.
#showtooltip Sinister Strike
/equipslot 16 [NON-DAGGER]
/equipslot 17 [DAGGER]
/cast NON-DAGGER SPELL
Do note the energy requirements of Gouge then Backstab is substantial.
dusty dagger
Aye
plucky nymph
Should work thou :3
plucky nymph
Not daggers, IMO.
You can still open with Ambush using macros similar to the above so it's smooth, but it's kinda awkward.
or just use 1 macro that switches between the two sets of weapons, and have normal attacking buttons.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dusty dagger
🙂
Welp, a lot to think about, time for sleep. Again, thanks for your help
Have a good one!
plucky nymph
👋
teal jetty
So i have [Perdition's Blade] [Felstriker], should i keep Fel or get CHT?
plucky nymph
CHT
plucky nymph
I like how this used to be the opposite.
Undeath used to be worth the least due to dungeon farming.
plucky nymph
Ye
hushed laurel
We got our annihilator up last week finally. Fuck arcanite prices on our server.
plucky nymph
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 😐
static spade
hey guys, what proffesions should i use for rogue? I was thinking about herbalism alchemy, but i have heard that mining engineering is better
any opinions?
hazy dune
engineering is minmax for pve and pvp
static spade
so mining engineering is the way?
hazy dune
depends what you want to farm for honestly man. mining is good to keep your engineering going with grenades and stuff in the future, herbalism is good for rogue consumables like Thistle Tea and Blinding Powder. I was skinning during the beginning of the game when Devilsaur was worth more
arcane crystals and black lotus are your big money makers with mining and herbalism
cedar jewel
You get blinding powder from farming brd
With that gold you can also buy herbs which are cheaper than engineering mats, and have a guildy alchemist craft you consumables
zealous salmon
According to character info i have 11% hit as sword combat spec, should i change elven ring for painweaver band for crit%?
cedar jewel
Are you using royal seal or blackhands as a trinket?
plucky nymph
@zealous salmon No.
teal jetty
how much crit is to much?
plucky nymph
In General;
34 + Your Hit %
teal jetty
Unbuffed, i have
30.3 Cirt
9hit
310 Dagger skill
with [Perdition's Blade] [Felstriker]
teal jetty
should i drop hit and get more PWB?
plucky nymph
IIRC it's more like .7% but uhhh > _>
You should not go over your crit cap.
YAY GHETTO GROUP QUEUE SCUMBAGS
hushed laurel
Ayup
plucky nymph
Still won biiiiiiiiiiiiiitch.
plucky nymph
THIS SHIT TAKES UP TOOOOO MUUUUCH SPAAAAAAAAACE
manic tide
what's the best use in the 15 points in the combat spec for combat daggers, everyone seems to have a different opinion
or is it a matter or preference
cedar jewel
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#f0xfoLZGcVbbEz0boV either this or +3 points into lightning reflexes instead of improved gouge
i prefer improved gouge as it helps me when farming stuff
other than that the rest of the talent points are the same
tidal palm
So i got outlaw sabre and sword of omen at lvl 33, sword of omen is way more dmg but its also super fast. should it be my main hand wep because of its high dmg or in my offhand because of its speed
sharp grotto
Lol @plucky nymph I carry around 5 stacks of tea to lol... not that food but normal meat haha..
drowsy phoenix
I carry alterac manna biscuits
merry willow
There isn't any simcraft like thing available for classic is there?
fair carbon
No
maiden cave
@merry willow best you get are the DPS spreadsheets
summer mantle
Hello. Where can I find the difference in dps between combat swords and daggers ?
plucky nymph
Scarlet Monastery (GY+LIB+ARM) Chest Farming
Starting Gold
- 1375.42.98
Total Farm Time
- 15:00 to 15:15 [15min]
Earned Gold
- 1385.59.08
Difference
- 10.16.10
Per Hour
- 40.64.40
Neat.
hushed laurel
Seems pretty low effort too, plus no need to respec I assume
Wonder how many runs you can do an hour? Do you hit reset cap? I guess you can just farm lib/armory/cath chests at the same time.
plucky nymph
I reset after every cycle.
You are not stealthed through most of it due to the level, pickpocket/kill bosses and mobs around chests.
Combat is just better for it as you have BF up for 3+ packs, AR for bosses.
You technically reset "SM" 4 times in an hour.
hushed laurel
Do you skip GY?
hushed laurel
Neat
plucky nymph
It is.
~4g every 15min will depend on how much;
Iron Ore [~7s]
Swiftthistle [~60s]
Fadeleaf [~50s]
Wild Steelboom [~45s]
sell for on your server.
If you have Herbalism there's extra Fadeleaf as well.
That's the only RNG there is really, that and boss drops.
plucky nymph
Yeah there are a few IIRC.
Same with "of Wrath" greens.
That sell for ~10g a piece.
eg.
is the only thing I've seen.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dusty dagger
Sanity check, Lv20 rogue on classic with poisons, I want a very slow main hand (sword combat lvling build) and a dagger in off hand. Dagger has instant and main crippling? Or both crippling if killing none running mobs?
Or can I get away with none dagger in offhand?
cedar jewel
Ofc you can, imo get a good fast oh you can find
And a slower mh with better damage
Until level 35 it won’t matter which weapons you’re using
So just go for sword/mace (for better sinister strikes) in mh and whatever for oh
Regarding poisons i honestly used instant on both weapons but crippling is better on mh if you can’t burst humanoids fast enough
halcyon loom
would glacial dagger be better than mirah's even tho i am sword spec
worn widget
Is maladath phase 3 bis if you count high warlord weapons? The pinned spreadsheet lists maladath as higher than the quickblade so i just want to make sure
Im guessing phase 3 bis is something like r14 sword/maladath?
If youre going swords
shadow tapir
Mirahs is the best pre raid OH sword aside from dal rend set, it’s better than the dagger
maiden cave
@worn widget for non-human probably, I'd spreadsheet it
worn widget
@maiden cave what spreadsheet are you refering to
maiden cave
raven snow
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 121 days 6 hours 6 minutes 44 seconds
hushed laurel
Awww, I liked negative time T.T
plucky nymph
Too bad we're in FORWARDTIME now.
hushed laurel
Merry Christmas my sneaky friends
raven snow
As a combat daggers rogue, am I still spending 5CP to keep up slice and dice or do I just dump my finishers into evis?
plucky nymph
You must make sure to keep Slice and Dice up.
This will change depending on remaining fight duration/mechanics that you have to engage with.
You will very rarely EVI.
raven snow
Thank you. Mizerok.
plucky nymph
👋
plucky nymph
We are in the process of deploying a hotfix to address an issue affecting the Warsong Gulch queue in WoW Classic. After the hotfix, adding players to your group while already in queue will reset your place in the queue. If you are in queue for WSG or AV when this hotfix is deployed, you may be dropped from the queue and will need to re-queue. Thank you for your patience.
Source: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/hotfix-for-warsong-gulch-queue-issue/396774
karmic jetty
ok, so has anyone actually tested Shadow Oil instead of Poisons?
Anyone else see how atrocious the proc rate is? It is suppose to be 15%, but it's like 5%
raven snow
Goblin or Gnome engee as rogue? (dont like to do both because reasons)
plucky nymph
Both :3 Goblin for nades. Though it's really up to what you want to do with the items you can use, pick the side that you will get the most use out of.
raven snow
okay, no i more confused then before.. i heard that gnome is for meeles better
plucky nymph
better how?
raven snow
because the trinkets, i dont know
plucky nymph
Then someone telling you it's better doesn't mean anything.
What is better for you is the side of the engineering that you will get the most use out of.
raven snow
mhh okay i understand, fml maybe i have to do both....
maiden cave
@raven snow if you only do one then gnomish is better, you can still get goblin mortar/sappers through a friend
but gnomish death ray requires gnomish at some point
since its boP
(and its why people say to go gnomish -> then respec goblin)
plucky nymph
Yeah he said he's not doing that.
maiden cave
no shit, hence why you go gnomish
even more so because if you DO decide to respec later, you will have gone the right way (gnomish -> goblin)
raven snow
yea i decide for gnome first, so i have the option to do goblin later, thank you ❤️
plucky nymph
Definitely the least obnoxious way of doing it if you chose to.
ocean parrot
ok guys. I took mongoose first. and then elixir of agility. Both show up on the top right
but someone is telling me they dont stack
why do they show up lol
wicked summit
any good reasons on why to pick swords vs daggers or vice versa
plucky nymph
One does better than the other but the real reason is because you like one more than the other.
wicked summit
yeah of course - i havent played much daggers
but guild asking which i want to go.. i really just want based on whatever items i get, lol
swords better pve and daggeres pvp?
plucky nymph
If the guild you are in is interested in planning things out then pick a side and tunnel it IMO. You're gonna get overflow eventually.
plucky nymph
Nope.
Due to the short duration of PVE content atm whoever crits more is better.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
plucky nymph
That's why I recommend just playing what you like.
wicked summit
yah - i hear ya
ive never tried daggers
whats the playstyle like
getting behidn all the time etc, even tho im generally behind, lol
plucky nymph
With some minor exceptions ye.
wicked summit
ill just go with whether i get viskag or perdition first
lol
thats what ill pick
plucky nymph
ezpz, aka... Perditions Blade :3
wicked summit
do u say that because most people pass on it?
plucky nymph
No because the drop rate for Perditions isn't 5% like Viskag.
still cove
Hey guys. I have a question about weapons for a fresh 60 rogue.
Im currently using Trashblade as MH, But I also got Sword of zeal. Should I replace Trashblade for Zeal, or just sell Zeal?
plucky nymph
If you are willing to spam the SHIT out of UBRS, just get Dal'rends.
If not use Zeal.
still cove
Ok, thx
unkempt junco
Hey fellow rogues. I was wondering, how much gold do I need to stack up in order to be set for the entire Classic cycle when it comes to enchants and consumables. Not flasks just mongoose and all the neccessary survival consumables. Can you give me a rough estimation?
hidden basin
6000 gold maybe could do it?
unkempt junco
Hope so
cedar jewel
Depends if you plan on only buying stuff or not
unkempt junco
Yeah buying stuff sounds like the way to go
I don't have any proffessions
I mean I have proffessions but not alchemy and herb
hidden basin
I dont know how much more inflation we will see in the upcoming months or to the end of the cycle.
unkempt junco
Yeah true, inflation is a thing as well.
fallow swift
Any bored souls out there willing to make a rogue flowchart for newcomers? (when to pop CDs, thistle tea, etc). Feral Example: https://imgur.com/LsSdd6Q
dusty dagger
Lv30 on my rogue, got a slow sword in main hand, fast dagger in offhand, what poisons should I go with now I have deadly poisons?
shadow tapir
instant
dusty dagger
Thanks
plucky nymph
@fallow swift If you wanna reference someone something for them to read, the classic wowhead guide does it well enough;
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-dps-rotation-abilities-classic-wow
There's no Combat Daggers rotation (for w/e dumb reason), but it's basically the same thing as Combat Swords as far as priorities go.
graceful hound
Does anyone know how much % upgrade rend Swords are compared to Krol blade + Mirah song? 🙂
warm ether
``Newest version of @Bloodmoon's DPS spreadsheet, still requires WPS for best use.
- with EAP: http://www.mediafire.com/file/0hcf6rqqoeyn354/Bloodmoon_DPS_spreadsheet_v.1.2.xls/file
- without EAP: http://www.mediafire.com/file/0j9j283oa9p5tch/Bloodmoon_DPS_spreadsheet_noEAP.v.1.2.xls/file
(EAP is just a way to weigh stats against each other, to see which is best - think of it as Effective Attack Power)
Remember to use WPS (linked in vek's message) with Bloodmoon sheet!
Use Excel with Garcia's sheet if you want the macros to work! LibreOffice and OpenOffice may work as well. ``
Have at it
hushed laurel
plucky nymph
or don't, just use them, they're better.
Don't get rid of Mirah's you will need it when you get BB/Viskag/etc. and don't have a better offhand. @graceful hound
graceful hound
Thanks 🙂 just got MH in a random UBRS i did so guess i should get OH aswell 🙂 @plucky nymph
plucky nymph
GL
plucky nymph
Yep.
teal jetty
Once ph3 opens. Will the dark moon deck elementals deck be worth getting
plucky nymph
Without knowing the exact proc rate it's impossible to give an accurate answer.
plucky nymph
buy my pricey hats 
plucky nymph
Just noticed a few of these are over 29 and therefor worth basically nothing.
plucky nymph
For damage? Money? Whatcha trying to do?
plucky nymph
ENG is the only one that does real damage.
Leatherworking can help replace poor/old pieces.
Alchemy for health potions for not dying? Dunno.
charred tapir
Oohhhh okay2
Can I switch professions?!
And
How much do I need to pay for respec?
plucky nymph
You can switch but have to relearn the entire profession, costs I dunno.
cedar jewel
You basically pay the costs to train a profession, there’s no cost fee like respeccing
graceful hound
Do you think felstriker + DM:W offhand is better then dal rends? Got lucky and got felstriker.
cedar jewel
The main thing about this is most guilds let rogues pick swords or daggers and they are stuck with that choice forever
Swords/daggers have different play-style. Depending on your guilds boss clears, swords may pull ahead but on paper daggers > swords in this phase
And yes i felstriker + dd > dal’rends
But that shouldn’t determine what spec you’ll end up playing
graceful hound
Ok. Alot of people are telling me Dal’rends are better.
Because felstrike is too fast.
shadow tapir
There’s more factors to it than that though
I’d just use the spreadsheet and determine if I need to pick swords or daggers for guild like Macko said
graceful hound
The shadowpanther sheet?
shadow tapir
No one of the two from the classic rogue disc
Calculates what does more dps for your character
graceful hound
tyvm
graceful hound
Looks like felstrike is simming higher 25 dps) then dal rends. Its on a 1min fight tho. Not sure if its worth really. @shadow tapir
shadow tapir
Not sure, up to you. Does your guild make you pick one before raid drops?
graceful hound
Yes.
shadow tapir
Then just go whichever you want in raid I suppose
plucky nymph
Daggers do transition better into PVP than Swords but it's really about what you like to play at that point for sure.
graceful hound
Ok 🙂 will prob stick with the rends.
plucky nymph
ezpz, daggers SEEM more popular so you have fewer fights for swords/fists.
shadow tapir
I would definitely go daggers yeah but that’s me
drowsy phoenix
if I cant cast ambush with it, it's not a fun weapon
too bad retail ambush does the damage equivalent of classic gouge
hushed laurel
im sorry, you want to leave stealth with something stealthy? not pressing your "damage cooldown"? What kind of joke rogue are you 
blissful locust
last time i checked you still engage with stealth shit except maybe on outlaw
fair carbon
drowsy phoenix
outlaw your choices for pvp opener are cheap shot or cheap shot
drowsy phoenix
is it worth keeping a dagger on you and using to ambush on fight start in combat swords
jade violet
Just got Brutality to replace my Sword of Zeal. As a combat swords rogue am I better off using Dal’Rends OH with BB or should I continue to use Sword of Zeal MH with BB OH? My only other option would be Brutality Blade with Gutgore Ripper (dagger) as OH? TY for help
dusk crystal
no mirah? monkas
plucky nymph
bronze geyser
What's our two BiS rings right now? Don Julio's and Accuria? If not one of these then Tarnished ya?
maiden cave
@bronze geyser Accuria > Don Julio = QSR > Tarnished > the rest
don't take QSR since we get a better ring in BWL (and Warriors use QSR for ages)
bronze geyser
Yeah my guild wouldn't give me QSR anyway ha. Ty!
maiden cave
smart guild!
unkempt cove
@plucky nymph do u still play classic
plucky nymph
WHO FUCKING PINGED ME, yeah I do @unkempt cove
unkempt cove
u played stalagg right? I remember ur name had the realm on it before. Is it still pretty much all grizzly on alliance lol
plucky nymph
AFAIK there's no Alliance at all.
lol
Might as well be PVE with the random warlock on the high-ground.
unkempt cove
well iirc it was the most horde favored realm
but there was still a pretty niche alliance pop
plucky nymph
uhhh, dunno, probably is now though >,<
Anyway yes, still on Stalagg, probably not moving.
We've a few GRIZZLY remaining but that's not for long IIRC.
dry birch
got +4 recipe a while back, up to around 2k, with 40g per craft 🙂
north lintel
Any1 know if using ns bracers for dagger rogue is worth it for the 10 extra energy? Or if you swap out bf helm/pants? If you have a link with the maths behind it I'am interested!
raven roost
@north lintel I use NS Bracers for the 5 piece because I have ACL and both pieces of Bloodfang. I think it ends up being about the same maybe very slightly more dps than Eclipse.
tropic karma
as if you're ever energy capped in classic
drowsy phoenix
I wear 8-set for pvp lol
raven snow
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 134 days 7 hours 23 minutes 30 seconds
raven roost
@tropic karma It actually helps a lot with adrenaline rush. Especially as backstab spec. Plus it's an extra 10 energy to start your set up which means you can do your first SnD that much sooner.
ocean parrot
anyone having issues with live logging to classic?
i have advanced combat stuff turned on and everything. works fine in retail, but keeps giving me blanks in classic
plucky nymph
Make sure you are using the correct version of the addons of your choice, while some things work both ways other things will not.
ocean parrot
ah ok thanks Miz
plucky nymph
hushed laurel
glass timber
yo
so that av button to enter the queue is a details feature
anyone know how i turn it off
i dont like it in the middle of my screen lol
plucky nymph
Yeah press Enter Battle ":3
But really no I have not looked.
raven roost
Shadowpanther is a good resource for all your BiS needs
As of right now Viz MH/Brut OH is BiS
@quaint grove
quaint grove
thx
ocean parrot
do you guys get crusader on both weapons?
so expensive lol
i m thinking just my fast offhand for more procs
plucky nymph
For swords yes.
plucky nymph
Both for swords, can only do OH for daggers if you wanna, but the MH would be +5 Striking > _>
It's gonna be pricy now, and pricy forever.
cedar jewel
^ it’s different for horde and alliance
plucky nymph
Alliance it's basically required, Horde you probably have a bunch of orcs.
and it's BM to use swords > _>
Orcs can still use them if they've spent the money on the items to support it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It's just dumb.
olive viper
You mean its dumb a warrior horde to roll on it ?
plucky nymph
That's not what I said.
plucky nymph
I already did.
drowsy phoenix
sounds like someone's answer fishing
plucky nymph
and IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ain't biten O _O
gentle stag
missing my opener then dying is truly the classic experience 11/10 game
raven snow
yikes
granite kettle
Hi My name is Tizona From Legion- Netherwind, I am a sword rogue and I am in charge of optimizing our Rogues dps. In Retail I would use vanish as part of my dps rotation, I am confused though. I play swords but have noticed our dagger rogues not using - in this order- Slice n dice 15 + sec then Blade flurry into vanish into ambush - thistle tea, into AR then backstabs for huge cleave But I noticed all the top logs of rogues in Classic not doing this? Here is our report from last night. I see one Rogue used vanish into ambush during the fight but never with Flurry. Am I unaware of something in the dagger rotation? https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NfaGX3Mm6KjkpdqV/
shadow tapir
No difference in using ambush in or out of Flurry if there aren't multiple targets
granite kettle
I know that but thanks
shadow tapir
" I see one Rogue used vanish into ambush during the fight but never with Flurry." Then not sure what you mean by this
granite kettle
So with cleave fights, why are they not doing this rotation, this is my question, its not just our rogues it is the top parses in the world as well
there must be something I dont know
maybe ambush isnt worth the energy cost
shadow tapir
Vanish>Ambush is at best a minor increase especially since you'll probably lose a couple white hits. Retail ambush is a good DPS CD for one spec because it has a lot of mechanics and talents baked into it. Then take into account the benefit of vanish being a threat drop in classic.
So more than likely it just doesn't really matter in any meaningful way and might as well keep it for utility.
granite kettle
ok makes sense, also vanish and ambush are gcd's that take away some autos? maybe thats something also? I know backstab spam during flurry is huge dmg so the whole gcd thing might make ambush just not worth
shadow tapir
When you vanish you stop hitting white hits until you hit ambush
Which shouldn't be long at all
granite kettle
yea u would need a thistle tea weave and immediate ambush I think I could make it work without losing more then 1 auto
but idk i am swords.. for now ;;
teal jetty
Anyone have the heads up on PH3?
hushed laurel
Nope, doubt we hear anything till after 8.3 drops/raid drops
teal jetty
What do you all think the
elementium bars will go for?
plucky nymph
That entirely depends on your server.
Prices are already kinda wild for more casual items.
teal jetty
Yeah edge masters for 1.3k
plucky nymph
What are your Arcane Crystals and Righteous Orbs at?
plucky nymph
Yeah our ACs are 40-45 Orbs are 30-35
Elementium is gonna be pricy me thinks.
teal jetty
Thinking about 1.5 a bar
And only a handful of guilds will get the smelting trainer on week 1?
hushed laurel
Arcanes are 70g for me T.T
plucky nymph
oof
hushed laurel
@teal jetty I was wrong https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-content-unlock-february-12/406222
plucky nymph
goodDeal
hollow dock
Hey whats the proc change of shadowcraft 6/8 set bonus
raven snow
Distracting dagger or gutgore in OH now when i have agcl???
maiden cave
@hollow dock 1 ppm, classic ppm, only whites (yellows dont trigger it)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Z62Mn9ZUsAjelbyDnWNPrDBGHQhLXRwW6YFRsV2fVgk/edit#gid=1147611224
6/8 SC is pre-bis
hushed laurel
Y'all hyped to be the heroes of the suppression room?
untold birch
yo guys. first time wow player here, had a question about a combat daggers build for raiding.
so i have distracting dagger and muggers belt currently running hemo. if i spec combat is there any reason for me to run muggers over shadowcraft belt? or should i run scraft belt + bracers of the eclipse?
basically is 316 dagger skill worth it for combat spec? i might be misremembering but doesn’t dagger specialization give you up to +5?
placid loom
@plucky nymph can ya help? ^
plucky nymph
@untold birch
i might be misremembering but doesn’t dagger specialization give you up to +5?
untold birch
yeah i thought i was misremembering too but nah it does
plucky nymph
basically is 316 dagger skill worth it for combat spec?
Weapon Skill past 308 gives substantially less value than getting from 300 to 308, so going for stats other than Weapon Skill should be the better option.
untold birch
got it. thanks for the clarification 
plucky nymph
so i have distracting dagger and muggers belt currently running hemo. if i spec combat is there any reason for me to run muggers over shadowcraft belt? or should i run scraft belt + bracers of the eclipse?
MH+DD, SCbelt+Eclipse
Shoot for that 308 weapon skill, going over isn't the end of the world.
Bosses have 315 defense.
plucky nymph
You can check out the Classic Rogue Discord (more focused on resource gathering and math) if you cannot find an answer on this Discord; https://discord.gg/wtV8PN
ruby bridge
btw. if yo want sth pinned here mize just ask.
i can add more links to the resources f.ex. if there is anything relevant
plucky nymph
@ruby bridge The only thing I can think of is the Attack Table math;
https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table
and the Wowhead Rogue Guide;
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/rogue-dps-classic-wow
There's a BiS guide as well on Wowhead but I am pretty sure it's making some assumptions atm.
ruby bridge
updated the pin
plucky nymph
👌
ruby bridge
if i can do anything else to improve the channel quality just hit me up
lean dawn
does daggers pve ever become stronger than swords?
signal ember
In AQ40+, they do really well because of high crit by then.
plucky nymph
Combat Daggers are better right now.
warm acorn
What's the crit percentage to aim for before going seal fate daggers?
raven snow
32-34 i Think.
maiden cave
if you want to do optimal PvE DPS, you forget about SF for the next 4-5+ months
but if you dont care about minmax, feel free to play it for fun
plucky nymph
Yeah I wouldn't even think about it until AQ > _>
gentle stag
man, hunter flares feel like they have the radius of a galaxy.
untold birch
i wonder if there’s an image somewhere of the actual radius. or an addon to make it visible in-game
sharp grotto
shit whats the classic rogue disc again lol.... i deleted it thinking it was another
plucky nymph
granite kettle
Hey guys my guild is tlaking about loot prio in bwl and they are saying fury prot > feral > rogue. because rogue will trinket swap in aq?
for drake fang
we have a good feral so im ok with that but curious what the value of dft is because trinket swapping looks kinda meh. idk.. but maybe someone has played private servers and knows
plucky nymph
What do private servers have to do with the official release again?
hushed laurel
pservers have been pretty accurate for a lot of gear situations.
Giving it to ferals over rogues seems weird, but most guilds will give atleast the first DFT to a tank
hushed laurel
gnomer makes me sick
so i cant play feral
i love our guilds feral though. hes the fucking bomb
plucky nymph
and yeah depending on the overall hit rating on your tanks, DFT might go to one of them if they are not looking to go deep prot already.
Which is an error me thinks, having more than one 31pt prot.
hushed laurel
yah, we have both of our primary tanks as deep prot right now, but thats because you chain pull so much trash that the snap threat is really important. once you hit BWL you dont need that as much, so having a fury tank is a nobrainer
plucky nymph
Ye
If you're going to speed through MC, the more mana on the healers the better.
and more warriors, of course.
hushed laurel
i respecced a weekish ago, dont need me or the other OTs as prot anymore, which is nice. plus had ot make use of this spare OEB somehow
plucky nymph
2 tank Garr or?
hushed laurel
naw, we have enough spare tanks plus our bear to 4 tank it. we keep our annihilator OT on garr, then throw the others at whatever we dont banish. aoeing the adds or whatever doesnt really save enough time for the trouble its worth
we also have like... 4-7 warlocks depending on the week
plucky nymph
Yeah we 2 tank + 2-3 banishes, AoE looks nice for parsing but is w/e.
Depending on # of warlocks.
Which is... volatile.
hushed laurel
we have a decent core of like... 4 loks that have been in the guild forever which is nice. we are up to 9 mages now though, which is amusing
plucky nymph
Yeah we're somewhere around there with mages as well, had like 4 0 2 0 3? warlocks at one time.
Very annoying.
6 mages, 6 warriors
etc
7 warriors, 4 hunters?! O _O
hushed laurel
7 warriors or 7 dps warriors?
plucky nymph
5 dps 2 prot
granite kettle
yea our guild is set up to be hardcore min max speed clears and war/ rogue stack for dps, several are taking time off to get hwl first
fury prot tank hence dft prio
plucky nymph
I'd rather blow my brains out than worry about R13 loot, queue's are much too long atm.
Pants might be R12? Don't recall.
granite kettle
pants are bis through aq
if u care about parsing u get em
im curious about bloodfang 8 p though, thing is u lose a lot of hit, as a sword rogue im just not sure on that
one guy in my guild had it said its insane
plucky nymph
If I care about parsing I find another guild, I don't grind Honor.
granite kettle
pvp does increase salt levels
hushed laurel
10 warriors, 4 hunters, 3 rogues, 7 mages, 4 loks, 4 priests, 3 shamans, 1 druid for our MC this week, missing a healer or 2 and some dps.
plucky nymph
3 shaman barrrrrrrrrrrf
hushed laurel
we had 0 for the first.... 6 or 7 raids
plucky nymph
and I am not onboard with Generals pants actually making a difference considering the weights are very close.
granite kettle
u gain .30 crit and like 18 ap if u use bloodfang instead, 2 hit has a value of almost 3 crit or 50 ap idk the exacts but hit is huge for swords and thats why the general legs >
plucky nymph
Hit is under crit if you are over cap last I checked.
It's ~.8:1 value.
Depends on your rating, of course.
for swords.
granite kettle
i still miss so much at 11% hit
plucky nymph
Yeah O _O
plucky nymph
That's the real secret to parsing.
Kills things so fast that your Hit RNG doesn't ruin you.
signal ember
Last kill before I stop playing my rogue in Classic. Guild is xferring and merging with another shit guild so hard pass.
plucky nymph
I do wish we had a non-spreadsheet method for simming 😐 shit's whack.
hushed laurel
plucky nymph
I'd almost rather O _O
hushed laurel
i mean, most people do more dps in MC than the best players did in naxx. its not like you need to minmax classic. its a shitty old game
plucky nymph
Pretty mooch.
I would just like to be able to point people to something other than my brain to confirm what I know.
hushed laurel
sucks playing a warrior. cant ask questions without being told to go to fightclub. and going to fightclub isnt an experience i would wish upon anyone
plucky nymph
Oh ye?
granite kettle
fightclub is just a hardcore min max discord for wars, if u dont read the pin notes they ban u
ppl dont read then ask pepega questions
hushed laurel
its not that, its just the attitude in general is fucking awful
plucky nymph
That's what I was wondering really.
granite kettle
warriors have big heads cause they are op in classic
plucky nymph
Because I know about pins and moderation I've only been here 4 years by now it feels like I am old O _O
hushed laurel
laughs in retaliation
plucky nymph
laughs in MY OWN POCKET HEALERS
hushed laurel
watching a rogue pop evasion against me is the funniest shit
plucky nymph
Eh not much else to do other than try to reset.
hushed laurel
resetting is correct. you never pop evasion against a warrior. its a vastly worse decision than just being punched
plucky nymph
Depends on the weapon, if some nerd charges me with a BRE the only option I have is Evasion and reset, tanking hits is a hard loss.
Best option is to Blind and literally just run away.
/wave
signal ember
Rather to take OP crit than to take MS/AA and other ability.
plucky nymph
If ima get global'd by the OP I am fucking dead regardless.
signal ember
hushed laurel
my persona lhealer during early MC was a resto druid. every death was due to batching
sometimes it was even true 
plucky nymph
Yeeeeeeeee
hushed laurel
#blameGummy
plucky nymph
NS+HEAL BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATCHED
hushed laurel
actually didnt die this last week for hte first time ever. came close on some firepack triple stun shit, but thats it
plucky nymph
Course.
hushed laurel
though grabbing aggro from ony on our split with deathwish and reck popped was... real scary for a hot second
hushed laurel
lol
plucky nymph
Just batch the fear with Vanish and laugh while DPSing.
hushed laurel
yah, its nice, specially when youre actually tanking ony. lets you stay in defensive stance if youre running low or a flamebreath just hit and break the fear. though tremor totem should fix that, but it never does for some reason 
sharp grotto
Finally got my NS belt..... now I’ve got every item a rogue can have in classic till bwl comes lol except BoA and not to worried about it
leaden trail
just wanted to find out what were some peoples favorite solo gold farms with daggers
versed gulch
There isn't such a thing as a sim tool ala simulationcraft for classic, is there?
hushed laurel
There's the spreadsheet, but no sim tools
versed gulch
Ok, thanks
Where would that spreadsheet be found, if I might inquire? Not in the pinned, right, or am I blind?
versed gulch
Thank you (sorry for the late reply)
left rune
Hello, does anyone know if Haste from Libram of Rapidity increases DPS?
or does it stay the same?
The Juju Flurry is bugged and it lowers damage so the DPS amount in the end stays the same.
plucky nymph
Flurry is different.
wraith parcel
Haste librams increase dps
ocean parrot
Rolled a one on a viskag last night... Only two of us rolled..feels so bad.
hushed laurel
We DEd 5 pieces of rogue tier last night. Including 2 pairs of bloodfang off rag. Felt bad
Though we got our first binding, so that's hype
ocean parrot
Oooh nice grats!
misty jetty
hi, i am doing loot council for our guild and in BWL, for human rogues, is maladath/cts bis? over cts/bb or cts/viskag?
unborn quail
CTS is best for MH
plucky nymph
That's my assumption as well, I imagine human tanks have interest in Mala?
hushed laurel
kinda. its good, but... meh. giving it to rogues first is the usual decision. atleast nonhuman rogues
grim dome
spiral cloak
Which wpn should be in the MH? The one with the higher damage and slower speed (but lower dps), or the one with the lower damage and faster speed (but higher dps)?
For combat spec
plucky nymph
Slow MH / Fast OH
spiral cloak
thank you @plucky nymph , that's what I figured .. just didn't want to be "that guy" that gets to 60 and someone tells me I had it backwards for 60 levels!
raven roost
Maladath should only go to NON human rogues
@spiral cloak The highest weapon damage goes MH. Generally this means the slower weapon but obviously not always. Krol is slower than Brut but Brut hits harder.
@misty jetty I'm not 100% sure on this but I think Brut is still a better offhand than Viz just because of the stats. Plus it's faster so more Sword spec procs.
Also Maladath should never go to a human rogue. Only non human rogues for their OH
CTS is BiS MH for all sword rogues and human fury warriors
misty jetty
ty
raven roost
@misty jetty Maladath goes to Non human rogues and Human warriors.
Human warriors specifically
Non human warriors generally want edge masters and go axes
I know this is a rogue discord but you were asking loot council questions so figured I would specify
misty jetty
no i appreciate it, thank you
spiral cloak
thank you @raven roost . seems that even if a lower level weapon has highest wpn dmg, it still remains MH, even if I find a higher level wpn with better dps but lower top end damage. interestingly, the lower level weapon is a mace. (toon is a level 34 human rogue.)
raven roost
@spiral cloak Since you're human you do get a benefit from using swords. Being that getting hit% at low levels is impossible, having that extra weapon skill REALLY helps.
Just something to think about
versed cedar
Just from numbers: Is Combat Dagger or Combat Sword the stronger spec?
plucky nymph
Dagger, especially considering the lower duration fights, but things are heavily RNG atm.
versed cedar
dagger is heavily depending on crit luck
versed cedar
hm... thats right
having more fun with dagger so far (and better weapons), but farming is much smoother with sword spec
but kk thx for the answer 🙂
signal ember
I would just pick up imp ss sole reason is so i can farm easier in world or stealth run. Daggers for pvp/dungeon/raid
dapper heart
I have a question guys. I am hearing that swords scale a lot better on horde side. But I am sitting with a krol blade and Mirahs. I have a corehound mainhand option with +5 weapon damage and scarlet kris off hand. Whats the better play here?
fair carbon
hushed laurel
raven roost
@dapper heart Man I don't even know how to help you with that. Have you tried Krol MH/ CHT OH?
Although your best bet is probably to MH the CHT and go farm for distracting dagger in DM west
But why enchant a CHT with +5? X.x
shadow tapir
Because +5 on Mh is better for daggers
raven roost
CHT is an offhand though. Lol
plucky nymph
Not when you have nothing else, I suppose.
raven roost
You would have to plug it into a spreadsheet which I can't do on my phone
plucky nymph
CHT is a strong OH for Combat Swords still, so if you wanna play Swords/etc. it's a more than fine option.
People tend to play what they like, I'd advise the same here.
raven snow
!classic
tall rivetBOT
WoW Classic live since: 152 days 6 hours 51 minutes 18 seconds
hushed laurel
knocked down our MC time to 1:18 without going ham on worldbuffs or skips, bout what we were hoping for. getting excited for BWL
clever whale
How much value does hit % lose after 9%?
hushed laurel
look at the spreadsheet, but it depends on your crit % as well.
maiden cave
@hushed laurel sweet! I am finding speedruns more fun than I expected, BWL hype
plucky nymph
Yeah it's something to do while waiting > _>
We're down to 1:15 with 30 people and just not killing things > _>
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Was at least a literal change of pace.
hushed laurel
Yah, it's fun to set up and see what happena
We are at 35 people, and 2 of our tanks forgot their FR gear so they ported out and had to come back during baron and shazz. And out shazz was... real bad. Most of our melee forgot to prechugg arcane pots
plucky nymph
Also pulling Gehennas and getting who fucking knows what adds because people are not paying attention O _O
hushed laurel
We always pull 1 of the annihilators first
plucky nymph
Move forward or backwards people...
Mage spins mouse and blinks randomly
hushed laurel
And we pull everything in garrs room because fuck garrs room
hushed laurel
Cutting down on firepacks was the biggest time saver. Just doing the left side of the rooms is so nice
Also Fuck fire packs
hushed laurel
We don't do the lava river skip, too lazy
plucky nymph
But it's so easy O _O
hushed laurel
Requires at least 2 braincells, in not relying on our raiders for that
plucky nymph
Fair.
hushed laurel
We are switching to dkp because people can't get our loot system now. Errytang gotta be simple
Can't wait till BC 25 mans
plucky nymph
What were you using prior?
hushed laurel
A suicide kings dkp hybrid
You had 5 dkp and chose 5 slots of gear. When you won a piece for one of your slots, you lost a dkp. You get 1 dkp a month. Everything not wanted is rolled for
plucky nymph
ye
hushed laurel
Was complicated on the officer end, but who cares. Hopefully dkp helps that out. Loot issues give me a headache
plucky nymph
Yeah they're the worst.
Reason we're as transparent as possible with our loot council setup.
hushed laurel
Id love LC, but we are super casual. We have a list that says what specs can spend dkp on what bwl gear as well, which is kinda LC I guess
plucky nymph
Yeah it's part of what people should be doing to try and get ahead of drama.
hushed laurel
Our motto before was Fuck mageblade. Now its Fuck DFT
Also fuck nelths tear but that's whatever
hushed laurel
We are giving our lok tank the first tear for twin emps, after that whatever
I have become nightfall bitch, so gear is irrelevant to me, which is relaxing
plucky nymph
O_O
hushed laurel
I bind hamstring to mousewheel and afk. Its nice
daring patrol
Hey guys can anyone point me to a more reliable pre bis list etc than the crap online?
The list has like 12%+ hits worth of gear etc so just wanting to find out at which point that diminishes etc and what to focus on specifically
plucky nymph
Hit continues to be very strong after the required amount of hit.
~80% of the value of Crit, weights will change due to your spec, current hit, and current crit, but hit continues to be very strong after the required amount.
clever whale
so at 11% hit rating with mask of the unforgiven, would it still be better than eye of rend for example?
basically trading off 2% hit for 1% crit + 14 ap
lucid forum
Hello, not sure where to post this but here goes
I've been told DFT benefits Sword rogues more than dagger rogues
could you lot confirm this assertion
and tell me to which extent is landing white hits with swords more valuable than daggers
ty kindly
robust quarry
Hello people!
Some questions:
- When do you replace Shadowcraft 6 set? After 4 epic pieces or...?
- Is going above your yellow hit cap worth it? Like if you are at 7% with >=305 weapon skill (hit cap 6%), should you replace Tarnished Elven Ring with Painweaver Band?
- Is Seal Fate PvE spec viable?
hushed laurel
Seal fate is only good when crit is more plentiful around AQ gear levels iirc. And hit over the hit cap is still good, but you have to spreadsheet to see its value. Most of your damage is white hits, and you'll never hot the off hand white hit cap.
No clue on 1
plucky nymph
@clever whale Some really simple and generalized math for figuring out what is "better" than something else is the following;
10 Agility = 10 Stamina = 20 Strength = 20 Attack Power = 1% Crit = 1% Hit
Note that for Swords Hit is worth less than Crit, and for Daggers it's a little more dramatic, but they are close enough for it to never matter.
@lucid forum
Hello, not sure where to post this but here goes
I've been told DFT benefits Sword rogues more than dagger rogues
I am not sure how this would be possible outside of Hit Rating being marginally better for Swords over Daggers due to Swords wanting slightly more Hit than Daggers would.
could you lot confirm this assertion
and tell me to which extent is landing white hits with swords more valuable than daggers
White Hits matter more for swords due to Sword Spec not being able to proc off of Misses/Dodges/etc. and swords in general having higher per swing hit.
@robust quarry
- When do you replace Shadowcraft 6 set? After 4 epic pieces or...?
You can just not replace it until BWL and do just as well as people with full Tier1/etc.- Is going above your yellow hit cap worth it? Like if you are at 7% with >=305 weapon skill (hit cap 6%), should you replace Tarnished Elven Ring with Painweaver Band?
Most if not all "gains" in armor are miniscule and so long you are over the required Hit Rating won't matter enough to stress over.
All other questions have been answered as far as I can tell, if there's anything else please do continue to ask.
robust quarry
@plucky nymph
Most if not all "gains" in armor are miniscule and so long you are over the required Hit Rating won't matter enough to stress over.
Can you rephrase this? Sorry, I don't understand
plucky nymph
Once you're over the required Hit Rating, other than weapons and BWL trinkets you won't see huge increases in DPS from gear.
robust quarry
ok thanks for the help!
maiden cave
those stat weights up above are terrible
sharp grotto
Using stat weights in general is a terrible idea imho... just like on retail
plucky nymph
That's why I said they are generalized and simple, rather than specific and robust. Good input though.
hushed laurel
Those stat weights suck for my MoP private server fistweaver monk, useless imo 
nimble valve
How will rogues perform in bwl, aq40, naxx compared to warrs in pve?
Do you guys expect fast clear levels fot those dungeons too by casual guilds?
Original vanilla we killed 6-7 naxx bosses. But I cant remember anymore.
On nostalrius just bwl as srv got closed. Bwl was easy peasy like MC.
Im asking as I am healing now and want to play dps as alt, maybe transforming into mainchar.
On nostal I was fury, and besides Vael (where we as horde had terrible aggro problems) we where always #1. Will this change in aq? Naxx? Rogues will be stronger?
I am on Alliance side now, will play human for pve I guess, or go gnome and then play dagger (aq40 seal dagger maybe..?)
maiden cave
@nimble valve rogues don't catch up, the gap widens, warriors shit all over us later in classic
especially on alliance where you dont have threat issues
granite kettle
If you're going to do PVE then stick with the troll horde is Superior as you can see with all the top speed clear through naxx
But of course that's fully optimized with all trolls
eternal hare
Are there any “official” BiS guides any1 can provide me? I cant find one linked in here.
vapid bone
@eternal hare for what Phase, current P2 with BWL ?
here is the current BIS, pre BWL release next month.
not much changes with BWL. Replace NS set with BF as you get it, and there are really only 1 weapon for each in BWL. Dragonfang Blade if you are daggers, Chromatic Tempered Sword if you are swords. There is not really any non tier gear to try to get. Fairly straightfoward.
@eternal hare here is your Phase 3 BWL BIS List : as well as a link to the spreadsheet which i sugged bookmarking as it has all phases BIS all classes.
clever whale
How big of a % of a rogues damage comes from offhand?`Either swords or daggers
vapid bone
let me pull my log from last raid / ony and i can tell you. I top the meters ever raid
so it shoudl be close enough
@clever whale i am not sure how to tell exactly how much of this dmg was specifically from the offhand but i has to be decent. Overall the melle autos are always the largest source of damage. Sorry for spamming but here are 2 dps logs from our last 2 ony raids, Friday and Last night. As you can see melle is the leader in my dmg, losing out on offhand dmg in any way would really effect me / us.
and now last night
not sure that will help you but , overall melle is extremely important
plucky nymph
Do note that there's a strong chance that Bloodfang 8-piece won't be worth it.
and we will instead us Nef Boots + 2pT1 + PVP stuff possibly if you have it.
or fucking... T0 still > _>
nimble valve
@vapid bone you playin combat dagger?
vapid bone
yes
that would be very non optimal MIZEROK, whoever things the shadowcraft energy bonus is worth it is wrong
the only old piece you may want to keep is the NS Helm bc its 2% crit where as the BF is 1%, however the BF has MUCH higher stats overall. I am doing more DPS iwth the BF helm even losing the flat 1% crit
plucky nymph
For T2 sure, now it's fine.
vapid bone
ok, i think i misread that anyway lol
plucky nymph
No there's still a chance that the energy returns can be worth it if BF isn't enough stats to push it down.
and once we've Darkmantle that comes back into play.
vapid bone
you could be correct but that would be in a perfect world you know?
plucky nymph
and if you are not using T2 due to 8p then T1 shoulders are probably worth it and any boots you can get to not have the +Dodge.
vapid bone
relying on procs vs a sure thing in stats, thats just how I look at it
im a stat guy, bc i can measure it without much trouble, but everyone likes to have diff gains and styles
plucky nymph
and yeah depending on the fight timings you might ditch the 1PPM items entirely.
plucky nymph
but the giga dumb RNG parse!!
vapid bone
Perd / Lobo but i wont complain
i was really thinking of dropping sader on the OH dagger and just going +5 again
well not again, just +5 on OH and MH both
plucky nymph
Also T0 isn't fucking 1PPM and doesn't have an ICD so it's even more degen
Wait till 15agi? That worth it for daggers?
vapid bone
good point
15 agi OH is i bet optimal, thats 15 ap and .5% crit
we getting that in p3?
plucky nymph
Yessir.
vapid bone
love the green glow too
plucky nymph
Considering the ease of farming it I might just switch to 2x+15 for swords even and fuck Sader entirely.
vapid bone
ok so, 100 ap @ 1x per min, trying to htink of the math rq
plucky nymph
15 sec uptime every min is 1/4 value.
vapid bone
wondering if that 500AP for that small widow is even worth it
plucky nymph
But you can have 2x Sader but GL with that.
vapid bone
and it does stack, i wonder if people overall use it for the STR or the heal, bc both are pretty small
plucky nymph
It's similar per minute value but the burst is very real.
the heal might as well not be there.
vapid bone
the +5 has to be a larger dps gain, offhand wise
bc its basically +5 dmg to ever single attack for 5 mins, OR the difference in the base attacks + teh str bonus for 15 secs
vapid bone
was thinking that too lol
plucky nymph
Simming or thinking of fights in that time frame is pointless.
vapid bone
was just thinking Ony, since longer then most bosses atm
plucky nymph
Sure, procs are very good there.
vapid bone
we kill some bosses in under 60 seconds, hell sader may not even proc
luci, shazz, mag etc
vapid bone
do you know, bc i dont, if the 1ppm is average or a hard rule
plucky nymph
It's completely random.
vapid bone
meaning, can it proc like 2x in 20 secs then not again for another 2 min
ok cool so it CAN happen
fucking RNG
vapid bone
hmm, thats not enough to apply a BS or Ambush, i guess it may take me over an energy breakpoint assuming i was not at 0
hmm , the darkmanle is that VERY dark blue/purple shadowcraft right?
plucky nymph
It's not enough for anything, but it's the strongest set bonus on any set until T3 > _>
Yeah it's like uhh.... kinda scifi
Set bonuses are shit, almost universally, but not that one > _>" It's very awkward.
vapid bone
agreed, not sure what trhey were thinking with set bonus's
i mean you can meme spec into them sure
plucky nymph
The first 2 or so loot design phases were all very early.
By the time they got to AQ we've basically modern loot design.
vapid bone
I had thought about going full seal fate / vigor with the NS 5 pc for 120 base energy
but im not even sure it would do anything diff at all
plucky nymph
ItsPoop.
plucky nymph
The issue with Seal Fate/Vigor is that doing Finishers isn't very good.
vapid bone
a good set bonus would be like +5% atk speed for 15 secs on hit
ya i was wondering that, if backstab gives 2 cp's and SnD is still up id end up blowing them on Evis, which i feel is a bit of a waste
but ive seen people literally shit on the meters using seal fate, but i have no idea their overall gear or style
Ming for example
vapid bone
i just stack stats and spam shit, seems to work
plucky nymph
That's where it's going IMO.
vapid bone
stopped worrying too much about set bonus, if the overall stats are more on a piece, i snag it
plucky nymph
I wanna use 8pT2 because it's fucking cool looking but that proc could be shiiiiiiiiiiit.
vapid bone
ROFL the 5pc feint bonus, get outta here
i never looked at the BF bonus's, 8pc seems great, but the 5pc lol
Feint is not even on my bars
plucky nymph
That's my thought as well, if we're not using 8p I am planning on dropping a lot of T2.
vapid bone
I only vanish to get an ambush in vs a backstab, dropping the threat is a side effect 🙂
plucky nymph
Feint also feels super shit already.
+25% doesn't excite me.
/cast Feint
SS WF POISON WF SS WF WF WF WF WF
o _o
vapid bone
oh, no wonder i didnt recognize it, im alliance
the shame lol
id love to be able to pay and faction xfer honestly, rolled ally to run with old vanilla buddies, guild folded and im solo as ally
plucky nymph
mmmmmmmmm
hushed laurel
Reroll horde, WF is worth it
plucky nymph
Only partially biased :3
hushed laurel
We need more rogues. Tired of DEing nightfang and bloodfang
plucky nymph
We got two new ones, don't need gear though AFAIK.
ew need BF legs like bad bad though
daring patrol
Hey gius thinking of maiming my rogue alt over the druid come BWL. Wondering what the thoughts are on how well Rogues scale into later classic? I know warriors are basically kings so I wonder how "needed" rogues will be later on especially in this min max environment today
hushed laurel
Rogues still scale well, just not as well as warriors. No one is minmaxing so hard that they won't bring a rogue
signal ember
Stopped raiding because all top end guilds transferred off so Org is my new home. Just need to purge the lesser races out of the city but they're like rats, they keep coming.
ebon ledge
ruthlessness or murder?
cedar jewel
Both if swords, murder if daggers
vapid bone
i miss Orgrimmar, Ironforge is not bad, Stormwind and Darnassus are cancer
hushed laurel
UC is bae
north lintel
Is elemental sharpening stone still gonna outperform instant poison in BWL?
lime ermine
Chromatic + Brutaly or Chromatic + Maladath?
vapid bone
Chromatic + Brutality
I do not feel the +parry is a benefit, the +4 swords should not be needed honestly for a human rogue as we get passive bonus + other gear bonus's to weapon skills. Muggers Belt, Aged Core Leather Gloves + the weapon expertise talent should cap. Plus brutality has +18 ap overall and 1% crit, which SHOULD make up for the 4-5 lost raw dps and then some.
Let the MT human warriors have Maladath imo
@lime ermine when BWL goes live, i believe they are adding the other 3 world dragons. Taerar drops an amazing sword, same model as Maladath but better dps and black / green
i just like posting SS's too
@north lintel it will and currently does, the cost is why most people do not go that route, the gain is not really worth the value. But yes ESS > IP i believe even now
plucky nymph
@north lintel Last I checked IP outperformed ESS (on the OH) everywhere outside of the encounters where bosses were immune.
hushed laurel
@vapid bone nightmare dragons come with P4/ZG, so not next week
plucky nymph
That sword is also a pain in the ass to get.
hushed laurel
@plucky nymph that card is one of the most amusing mistakes to come out of wotc in awhile
plucky nymph
@hushed laurel Pardon?
hushed laurel
your new avatar, its an mtg card
plucky nymph
oh ye, random #classic-discussion
hushed laurel
i forgot this discord has other channels since i stopped playing retail XD
warm acorn
Is there any way to sim items for classic?
signal ember
Spreadsheet
hushed laurel
darkmoon cards have begun dropping
plucky nymph
neat
hidden basin
So put +3 stats instead of 4 on chest? Is 4 really worth the gold difference?
plucky nymph
no
versed cedar
its 2,xy ap or somthing, so no ^^
raven snow
Running swords, crusader still > 15 agil in P3 ??
nimble valve
question about hit rating, so DW increases the chance to miss to 24,8%? even for mainhand white hits? :>
So whats the goal? 9% hit still?
nimble valve
and another question..whats the weapon skill cap? 310 right?
versed cedar
9% hit cap for yellow hits
24,8% is white hit cap
9% hit is your first goal, after that, hit loses a bit of value, but is still a very powerful stat
for bwl my bis gear has 21% hit overall
@raven snow dont know excatly, they are really close and sims always tell me different stuff
for me I simmed again, and crusader mh + agi oh sims best
raven snow
@versed cedar thanks!
Even if the OH is the faster wep?
versed cedar
I only say, what my sims tell
also to mention, that the difference between all combinations, even with fiery enchant is about 20 dps overall
raven snow
ok, Thanks man!
teal jetty
Can someone send me a link to the classic warrior discord plz and ty
wicked summit
what will b topping DPS in bwl raids? swords or daggs?
plucky nymph
Daggers probably, though swords should be closer than they are now.
bright laurel
Is the Maelstrom DMF card worthwhile getting if you only have seal of eldtheras / blackhands breath?
plucky nymph
If it's not hugely expensive sure, better than Seal but not by much.
Also proc reliant.
bright laurel
thanks
sour silo
Is there any sort of sim or spreadsheet for rogues in classic to compare items?
vocal hornet
yes
plucky nymph
They are, however, kinda whack.
drowsy phoenix
at this point I'm just gathering knowledge about stats and then stacking what I want
drowsy phoenix
following this week, logs will still exist for MC, right?
just under a different bracket I'd assume
maiden cave
@drowsy phoenix yes its just another category
wicked gazelle
hello friends, im looking for a pre raid BIS list that includes the shadow craft set. i cant seem to find one online
teal jetty
If you can get ur hands on thunderfury. Would it be worth... and if so MH or OH
cedar jewel
Mh till gressil
@wicked gazelle 6/8sc with devilsaur set or cadav chest/truestrike shoulders
wicked gazelle
same trinks and such
raven snow
who can i talk to in order to stop gaining exp?
teal jetty
with DMF Buff 10% dmg or Agi
cobalt panther
For the suppression room, are the traps there set to respawn on a set timer after disarmed or is it random? (i.e. trap comes back up always after 30 seconds or is it random like any time between 8 and 30 seconds)
plucky nymph
hushed laurel
Our bear carries a lot of those
plucky nymph
Yeah ours went and got all 12 of his counterweighted last night.
hushed laurel
real useful on the rougher aggro fights
youll want him high on the aggro list for a few fights
vapid bone
is there a specific spec room for classic or does this one work. I looked didnt see one
wanted to see if I should drop the 1 pt in Relentless Strikes based on my gear.
harsh vapor
is there a sim spreadsheet for classic rogues? the ones on http://shadowpanther.net/xls.htm don't look too customizable
quiet bloom
Wondering if dagger rogues are switching from crusader enchant in OH to +15 AGI?
teal jetty
I am