classic-discussion

[spice drum]

His spreadsheet is also very very useful

[high galleon]

Thanks

[oblique bronze]

Is there a way to keep action bars clean when swapping runes? Everytime I put on saber it adds a new one also with envenom

[spice drum]

I think it's just bugged, same thing happens to me

[coral portal]

I was curious about something - does classic not have the concept of Parries not happening if you're behind the target? I feel like I've noticed parries happening even when I'm behind someone and I wasn't sure if that was a change that happened later on

because I remember that being a big thing as a tank as well

and on that same note, I remember parries resetting swing timer or something like that

[raven snow]

Kind of wondered the same thing honestly, swore it used to be only when infront but i swear i’ve been parried on my rogue while behind them.

[spice drum]

Personally I can't recall ever being parried while I was facing their back

[jagged ether]

how much worse is strength than agi? got the 6 str bracers and not sure if they are better or equal to my 4 agi ones

[coral portal]

I think the ratio is 6 agi = 5 str?

[jagged ether]

so 6 str slightly better then ty

[coral portal]

I may be fully making that up, I can't remember where I saw it XD

I think it comes down to the fact that 1 agi and 1 str both equal 1 ap

and agi gives a small amount of crit and dodge on top of that

so agi is sliiightly better point per point when compared to str/AP

[spice drum]

1 STR = 1 AP.
1 AGI = 1 AP, 0.09% crit.

So you're choosing between 1AP and 0.45% crit

Personally I would go AGI but idk what's technically better. We're talking fractions of fractions of DPS gain here

[coral portal]

usually you'll see stuff suggest grabbing AP because the itemization of AP usually puts more of it on stuff than it will agi/str (ie like 10+ ap compared to like 5 or 6 agi/str)

[spice drum]

^

[coral portal]

oh I just realized I did that backwards, 5 agi = 6 str (but again grain of salt, I've done no math I'm just regurgitating something I think I saw somewhere XD)

This is the shadowpanther point scoring:

so they actually put str/ap at a little over half as good as agi

[spice drum]

That seems probably about right

I would have guessed it would be much closer. Something like .5 or .6. Interesting

[coral portal]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised; I personally don't know if I rank the small crit/dodge gains that highly XD

but ultimately the min/maxing isn't going to get you that much farther, 1 agi = 2 str/ap is probably good enough XD

[robust kindle]

everywhere i look for talents says to go for relentless strikes and ruthlessness. but for some reason i imagine precision is way too good to pass up. 5% hit? am i tripping?

(regarding SoD)

[idle cedar]

Depends on gearing, I would imagine

The relentless strikes effect is pretty yuge though

[coral portal]

the general consensus I've seen is that while hit is really good, you have to sacrifice a lot of other good talents to get it, while dumping some points into fairly useless talents.

it might be more worthwhile in the next phase as we get more talent points

[jagged ether]

assassination spec is better

go try both and report back if you dont trust the numbers or wcl rankings

especially with bfd bosses being +2 level instead of +3

[robust kindle]

that makes sense. the points are pretty precious. and gouge does nothing for your dps

[spice drum]

Yeah you have to view Precision as -8 talent points not -5

because you're blowing 3 on either gouge or dodge

[light garden]

hey guys for the ravenhold quests is the only option to hand in the emblems 1 at a time

[fallen belfry]

whats the best sod rogue build

for pvp

[white merlin]

Yep.

[vocal relic]

So doing the level 20 quest at level 20 is basically a hard mode right? Because distract and vanish and level difference makes it easier? Deciding whether to do it on hard mode or make it easy. I can't recall when I did it on my main back in 2007 but pretty sure I did it on hard mode. I might have a lot more skill since then..lol

[spice drum]

Not really. Ambush auto kills the guards, you can stealth to avoid the pats, I usually do it right away

[spice drum]

There is no "best pvp build" because pvp fights are super dynamic, what is best for wpvp is different from wsg is different from duels

Also it's largely up to personal preference. I'm really liking Mutilate in pvp for the faster spenders (like a 5s stun between the eyes) but if you're against a class that can trinket stuns you're usually better off just pumping. So you might prefer backstab burst or a saber slash sustained build

[coral portal]

iirc you shouldn't need to kill the guards?

you just have to pickpocket the solo one for the key

[spice drum]

Yeah I don't even do it

[coral portal]

and then sap the wizard at the top

the sap is the biggest spot where shit can go wrong assuming it can be resisted

[light garden]

ya i did it at 20 just did a sprint to the guy while stealthed quicky PPed then ran away

i went into reletnless strikes but after that anything i should prioritze

[spice drum]

Imo its:
2x Remorseless Attacks -> 2x Improved Sinister Strike -> 3x Malice -> 2x Murder -> 3x Improved Slice and Dice -> 1x Relentless Strikes -> 3x Ruthlessness

[light garden]

dont like oppourtunity?

[spice drum]

For levelling?

Oh mb I misread your comment

[light garden]

if im soling i use gouge and the stun for stabs

letharity or oppourtunity is one beter then the other in your view

[spice drum]

But no I don't use opportunity for levelling, I find its faster to just spend the energy on damage abilities instead of gouge

[spice drum]

I'm not sure :(

[deep cedar]

guys is there a bis build or pvp in sod?

[light garden]

id reco doing a fun build in phase 1

try stuff discover, it won't stay great so many changes coming

[light garden]

so so (SO) annoying that not only do u have charges of poison but they expire!! annoying!! haha

[raven snow]

Yeah charges should have been removed.

[wraith parcel]

Deadly brew

Although you'd still need cripplings ig

[dreamy vector]

is this the sod channel? Im new to rogue. So my question is: is it so bad to have 0-10-5 pvp/dagger build for raid? as one of the recommended specc with dagger is 11-2-3 (witch I wounder why we take to point in improved sinister strike, as we just use backstab and saber slash). I wounder as I like to pvp most^^

[chilly ferry]

Talent swapping is way cheaper than it was originally, but you'll do fine with basically any build in raid. The Improved Sinister Strike reduces the cost of Saber Slash too

[steel turtle]

Shadowstrike + gun slow + stun and just using sinister is pretty strong now with a decent 1 hander so you can run a build that is mostly tailored to pvp (imp sprint but give up evasion/sprint CD reduction) but still does really good in pve... you will just miss out on ruptures and have to use most combo points to keep S&D up since you won't get improved S&D

[dreamy vector]

ok thx!

btw does enginering get us bombs that we can cast and stun with?

[spice drum]

Yep, although they're pretty weak at this level

[dreamy vector]

but for a rogue to get a 2 sec extra stun sounds awesome?

combinded with be the eyes and a gouge?

[spice drum]

It's definitely something, but a 2 second item stun is pretty weak

That's slightly over 1 global

[dreamy vector]

so whats best professions?

[coral portal]

LW gets access to the BIS gloves for us this phase

[spice drum]

LW + Engi

[coral portal]

People recommend engi for tanking to pick up aoe threat

[dreamy vector]

how important is it to have 3 points in precision instead of 2 for pvp? and does it do anything for pve?

[dreamy vector]

can we use thistle tea?

[chilly ferry]

The cast times of the bombs lowers the value, you can't dogde or parry during the throw, but well timed with your energy regen can be an advantage

[stable kettle]

riddle me this: why are there lots of sabre slashing rogues with serra'kis and vampiric boot knife in the top 30 BFD logs

[spice drum]

Yeah

[spice drum]

Which fights are you filtering for? Complete Raids?

Because backstab is better against trash that dies in no time as well as against first boss

[unborn mulch]

Even with saber slash build you want fastest offhand. It’s the best offhand period

[spice drum]

I think he's talking about Serra'kis being the oddity, not Boot Knife

Saber benefits the most from a fast OH, more than Muti or Backstab

[coral portal]

oh man, are people actually swapping runes out for trash too and not just waterboi?

[spice drum]

Idk if they're necessarily swapping runes but you just have to keep in mind that top parse of complete raids will include a lot of sicko optimizers

[stuck island]

whats best spec for pve ?

[spice drum]

14/2/0 Saber Slash build. It's in the wowhead guide

[stable kettle]

yeah I was lol

[bleak blaze]

You guys think we'll go for prep in phase 2?

[coral portal]

I don’t see why we would outside of tanking or PvP

We don’t have a ton of DPS CDs especially before endgame unless I’m forgetting something

[steel turtle]

doubt it as well, even for the pvp backstab build there are a ton of good choices between the assass and sub tree before going that far down for it just yet

[bleak blaze]

Yeah I'm talking specifically for pvp.

[violet owl]

Guys what do you think is the best horde race for rogue in Cataclysm for PVP?
Blood elf silence seems quite decent to me

[steel turtle]

probably depends on comp if talking about arena. Double dps BE could be better than undead or orc but I'd think undead/orc for something like dpr

[opaque vortex]

yall think we're completely fucked next phase in gnomeregan with how many elementals/mechanicals there are in there?

[steel turtle]

With the extra points for talents a slaughter from the shadows build could do decent, hopefully get some runes for backstab/ambush and an epic dagger (2.00 speed )

[spice drum]

Absolutely not, backstab will still perform relatively well against elementals / mechanicals

It is honestly good for the game imo if they do keep elementals/mechanicals and force players to play around that fact

[opaque vortex]

i'm just sad we won't be able to use envenom in there though

only new rune that's an actual pve spender

[spice drum]

There will be bosses you'll swap to Envenom for

[earnest halo]

Can someone please explain envenom

How does the scaling work with doses vs combo point

If I have 4 combo points and 2 doses vs 4 doses and 2 combo points what is actually giving me the dmg

Description states doses but that’s clearly not true

[opaque vortex]

combo points gives you buff duration + damage for doses up to what combo points state

so 2 stacks and 5cp will do 5cp buff duration and 2cp(2stack) damage

2cp and 5 stacks will do 2cp buff and 2stack damage

then as you'd expect 5cp 5stack will do 5stack damage and 5cp duration

[earnest halo]

Thanks

[earnest halo]

Did you mean 2cp buff and 5stack here

[opaque vortex]

no with 2cp you'd still get 2cp damage

you get the damage = lesser of combo points/stacks, but always get the buff duration for your combo points

[earnest halo]

Ok that makes sense thank you

[dreamy vector]

Whats the best gold farm for rogues in sod?

[coral portal]

I’ve been farming in 1k needles on the high bluffs with the Tauren; they drop lucky charms from pickpocketing and are a good silk farm

Last time I was there it was saying about a gold an hour and 3-4 stacks of silk

And then maybe 4ish stacks of lucky charms

(Lucky charms stack to 5 and AH sells for 30ish silver)

[light garden]

anyone get poisoner to autobuy in sod?

[dreamy vector]

where exactly is that on the map or whats the name of the tauren u farm?

[deep cedar]

playing SoD, I have cruel barb on mh and meteor shard on off hand -- until I found ghomora dagger in bfd
now, what should I do? go dual wield daggers? or just replace meteor shard with bfd dagger?

[wise swallow]

I've seen several people say to use Simonize's spreadsheet to "sim" but am I missing something here? I don't see a way to retrofit it to SoD. I don't even see how you would set your level to 25 and add things like Runes.
Is there a SoD-specific version?

[sturdy imp]

Anyone has a screenshot for pvp talents. Backstab build or Mutilate build. (Wsg) - right now i am trying mutilate. Do I use 2x chipped bites daggers?

I run mutilate with between the eyes and quick draw

What would I use for backstab build as weapons and runes? Shadowstrike, energy reduction on backstab (dont know name right now) and between the eyes?

[deep cedar]

cant get an answer either anywhere, please let me know

[white merlin]

There's one for SoD.

[coral portal]

Green circle is around where the ramp to climb up the bluffs is; you’ll see and cross a bunch of hanging bridges. Combatants there are grimtotem bandits/stompers/geomancers iirc

[coral portal]

Is there anyone in here who has permissions to pin? The SoD version of the spreadsheet is really hard to find just by googling, or even going to Simonize’s pages

[white merlin]

I don't know what other pages he's got, but I know it's in his Discord.

[spice drum]

He has a spreadsheet made specifically for sod. Check his discord

[wise swallow]

Ah ok thanks

[spice drum]

Buy a Cross Dagger or Honed Stiletto of Power imo

[spice drum]

Mutilate with 2x Chipped Bite is going to be my pvp setup once I can find a second, it seems pretty strong already with Chipped Bite + Boot Knife

For runes I run Deadly Brew + Between the Eyes + Mutilate

And talent to maximize backstab (and therefore mutilate) damage

[spice drum]

Try the dedicated rogue classic discord, this server is must less active

Ravenholdt is more for retail

[deep cedar]

I tired but it is less active than this

nobody answers me there

[spice drum]

That's absolutely not true

There are 3 channels for sod specifically and it's very active

[deep cedar]

idk, people here answer at least, I tried texting there but nobody answers me there

"Rogue Classic" no?

[sturdy imp]

so talent would be exactly what? 0/11/5?

• you have link for rogue classic discord?

can dm me if not allowed to post here

[spice drum]

I don't have the link but it should be a top result on google for clasic rogue discord

And I can't remember the exact talent build because I haven't pvped in a while but I just tried to maximize mutilate burst

[deep cedar]

how do you stick to target without quick draw

it feels so frustrating to me

[spice drum]

I don't haha, rogue feels really bad in pvp right now, so I usually prey on either a class with no mobility or a target who just spent their utility like a priest who just feared or a mage who just blinked / nova'd.

And just rely on Ambush + Mutilate + Thistle Tea + Mutilate + Between the Eyes for a ton of burst damage and a 5 second stun

[deep cedar]

uhmm, makes sense ig

[spice drum]

With no builder stun we're just kinda terrible in an even fight

[deep cedar]

why were you mentioning these two greenies btw?

chipped bite + meteor shard is not good?

[spice drum]

Because they are our best daggers. They are both fast and have +10 Attack Power

[deep cedar]

better than blues?

[spice drum]

Or, best daggers for the saber slash pve build (our highest pve dps build) I should say

Yep, but ever so slightly

Blackfathom Ritual Dagger, Sun-Touched Crescent, Cross Dagger of Power, Honed Stiletto of Power, Vampiric Boot Knife, they're all unbelievably close to each other

[deep cedar]

isnt ritual for casters?

[spice drum]

"for casters" doesn't really mean anything

It does* decent damage and swings unbelievably fast at 1.2

[deep cedar]

holy moly, I passed on it last night at raid

are you telling me I should've needed it lol

[spice drum]

Yeah, it's amazing. I wouldn't need on it over a caster needing on it though

Our OH is basically just a fast stabber to apply as many poisons as physically possible because OH damage is halved

[deep cedar]

whats vampiric boot knife spd?

[spice drum]

1.3

[deep cedar]

jeuss christ

[spice drum]

Yeah it's a little better than the blackfathom ritual dagger

But all of our best offhands are super super close

[deep cedar]

so what should I use main hand between cruel barb and chipped bite

[spice drum]

They're very very close but Cruel Barb is better, especially if you're a Human

[deep cedar]

so I should just bank both meteor shard and chipped bite and get a crossed dagger greenie on AH instead?

fuck it feels so weird

[spice drum]

I mean you can definitely run Chipped Bite until you get one of the raid daggers if you don't want to use a green

It isn't that big

You'll also save some gold. It's up to you

[deep cedar]

but which is better ion terms of dps

[spice drum]

The green Cross Dagger of Power or Honed Stiletto of Power

[deep cedar]

better than chipped bite right?

[spice drum]

Yep

Slightly

[deep cedar]

ok

[spice drum]

Sorry I keep saying it but I just want to bery clear haha

[deep cedar]

sìsì

actually thanks for the insights

means a lot

[spice drum]

Anytime brother

[frosty forum]

So we probably wont be runnin saberslash in gnomer?

[fresh roost]

does anyone know if quivers that increase range atk speed effect the draw time on quickdraw?

[deep cedar]

that's a good question lol

but I doubt

[opaque vortex]

maybe on some fights but it's probably a backstab tier

kinda depends on our weapon options

[spice drum]

I'm not sure but 10% increase would not be worth holding onto a quiver for

[dreamy vector]

thx, do I need a special specc for it?

[sturdy imp]

Combat riposte feels always good for me for farming

Less downtimes, safer

[coral portal]

I’ve done pretty okay just as the standard Sabre slash spec, just lots of use of distract and sap for groups of 2

[deep cedar]

bro do you know if Venomstrike bow passive applies on quick draw?

[spice drum]

No idea

[hollow bronze]

Hi all, I'm running swords in SoD. Saw a guide that said envenom is better than eviscerate for PVE. I haven't played for a long time - any tips? I'm using saber slash and slice and dice etc

[modest oracle]

ANY1 KNOW THE SOD FARM IN STONETALON

[green arch]

Look here

[spice drum]

So put very simply, Eviscerate is a classic ability so it is based on ability-rank trained from trainers, whereas Envenom is a Rune which scales with level. Since we run Deadly Poison for DPS, it's way better to use Envenom than Eviscerate

Deadly Brew - Envenom - Saber Slash is our strongest rune combination right now, with an assassination build except for 2 points which we put in Improved Sinister Strike

[modest oracle]

plz tell me

i need monis

[idle cedar]

I'm broke on SoD too

Not so much that I don't make money, it's more that there's so much I need to spend it on

[daring temple]

Does anyone know an addon or a macro to make his poisons directly on the weapons by pressing a button. Now I always have to click on the poisons from the inventory and then into the character window to click on the weapons :D.

[white merlin]

Replace X with the Poison you want, then right-click for your off-hand, left for main.

/use X Poison
/use [btn:2]17;16

[coral portal]

Poisoner also has some easy poisoning set up with left/right click to switch which hand is getting poison applied and then ctrl/alt/shift modifiers to change what poison is getting applied. Works with sharpening stones as well

[red patio]

Hey folks, wondering if I can get some advice. Never did play a Rogue in classic, but leveled one in SoD, intending to farm quests at max to send gold to my main. Anyway, got to level 13.. and I feel weak as hell. Every 1v1 is a challenge! Followed the Wowhead leveling guide, with talents in sinister and remorseless. I enjoyed the early levels a lot, hence getting this far, but at this moment I'm dying to everything that looks at me in Westfall. Bit embarrasing really. Any tips? Wowhead suggests Shadowstrike.. but should I be using saber strike instead? Any runes I should go and get to make it 'click'? Or am I just shit?

[amber prawn]

Does Health Pot and Thistle Tea share a CD in SoD?

[spice drum]

Nope, it shares a CD with Healthstone

[spice drum]

I would recommend Saber Slash, yeah. Quick Draw is a useful talent for kiting and Between the Eyes is a good talent for stunning in a close fight

Make sure you're using a good strong mainhand weapon while levelling, its very important. And fight mobs that are around your level, preferably a level or two lower.

I dance between the Loch Modan and Westfall and then Redridge while levelling to make sure I don't fight mobs too high lvl

[red patio]

Thank you very much, appreciate that. RestedXP got me buying a sword, would you run a sword or dagger? I've got two green swords ready to go for level 14 which I'm 1 bar off of

[red patio]

I'm following RXP tbh and once I hit 18 I'll be spamming DM to save quests for max

[spice drum]

Sword, bigger mainhands are better because ability damage scales with mainhand swing damage

Offhand doesn't matter until you get poisons, unless you're a human in which case you want a sword/mace offhand usually

So go for a slow and big MH with whatever good OH you can find

[red patio]

Ahh, okay, I am a human. Thank you very much for the tips.

How are they at doing quests above their level at 25?

[spice drum]

They can do it, but they're nowhere near as good at it as mage, warlock, etc.

[red patio]

Ah great haha. No worries. I'll get it to 25 anyway. Prolly should have done a hunter for this project

[plucky sundial]

what off hand(dagger) is everyone using for sod. i have the life steal one and it seems like im doing less damage than when i was using a +10 power green. looking for some interesting opinions. please dont tell me to sim it i dont really use that kinda stuff. just curious what others think

[loud tusk]

Do rogues want the full 3 pieces set or is the 24AP helm better with 2 piece

[coral portal]

cross dagger of power is one of the more popular options

1.3 speed, lots of AP

oh and that's for combat, not necessarily for Mutilate if you're running that

[spice drum]

The difference between the +10 power greens, the boot knife, the ritual dagger, etc. is so minimal that you aren't going to notice it. It's something else going on if your dps is lower.

Edit because I didn't really answer your question:
Technically the best one is the Vampiric Boot Knife

[spice drum]

Full set

But it's pretty close. I wouldn't roll on either if another member of your raid team could use the other and it drops

[modest oracle]

have any1 found out the pickpocket farm in stonetalon? my guildie claims he gets around 30-50g per hour

[idle cedar]

Tell your guildie to stop being a bitch and share

[modest oracle]

RIGHT

[plush glacier]

sounds like bullshit lol

[modern elbow]

For next phase for sword spec we want the fastest sword in off hand right?

[dry tartan]

is this the channel for SOD chat?

[idle cedar]

What energy timer addon do you guys use?

[nimble sleet]

a weakaura anchored to energy frame of character

[idle cedar]

that sounds like it requires a couple braincells to rub together

[nimble sleet]

https://wago.io/L1eTpdV2Q

[dry tartan]

how do i use BTE/quick draw? im lvl 13 and i still basically have one rune lol

it wont let me use either of these abilities

i have a ranged weapon (bow)

[nimble sleet]

do you have runes on your gear?

[dry tartan]

yes

[nimble sleet]

ammo ?

for the ranged weapon?

[dry tartan]

that was the issue

i hate this game

just wasnt equipped

lmao

[covert lotus]

guys any guide for pvp SOD?

currently playing swords, need talents

[wise mural]

Any suggestions of good pvp build with shiv? I have only shiv + reduced energy for ambush /backstab+ between the eyes in combat backstab build

Can it become better with Assa talents ? One shot or go home kinda style

Or +30% crit to backstab is too good

[nimble sleet]

shiv = crap rune

[raven snow]

Hopefully we get dance next phase. I have a feeling they’ll add 2 more tune slots next phase to total 5

[coral portal]

I would looooove fan of knives personally XD

although we will be able to get Blade Flurry in the next phase

[steel turtle]

Please give cloak of shadows and make it so tabbing off a target doesn’t remove points 🙏🏻

[hollow bronze]

Thanks a lot!

[dry tartan]

whats the set up for soloing WC in SOD?

[coral portal]

what do you mean by setup?

if you mean what build, I've done it just as Saber Slash at 25. I'll usually get to Cobrahn, kill his snakes and vanish to get health back and he's not too bad. Sometimes maybe have to pop evasion if he switches to cobra form

[worldly harness]

Do between the eyes / quick draw use weapon skill with your ranged weapon?

[coral portal]

pretty sure tehy do, yeah

at the very least I remember using them to sorta speed up getting my skill level increased for some weapons

[sour portal]

hi there mm did u see the news? about we can pick what rogue bonus set we want for next season?? what would u choose ? o.o

[topaz lichen]

any wrath classic rogue able to help me out? Feel like Im doing something wrong with the class in general as I'm doing very low dmg for my ilvl I feel

[tulip shard]

holding it down my rogue brothers

[tardy topaz]

I'd already be happy if we get decent glove and leg runes for backstab rogue

[turbid torrent]

is there a preraid bis list + raidbis list somewhere?

[steel turtle]

Probably not since no p2 items have been datamined besides a 2h mace from gnomer that is lvl 35 requirement which may not be correct since lvl cap is 40

[raven snow]

Yeah shadowstrike is dog shit in classic. Between the eyes is good. So is quickshot.

[tardy topaz]

Why would I ever take Quickshot as a backstab rogue? 😄
It's the same slot as Slaughter from the Shadows.
Between the Eyes is also useless in PvE, which is what I am concerned about.
Shadowstrike would be okay, if Saber Slash wasn't so OP, even for a backstab rogue

[raven snow]

I use quickshot sometimes if i’m open world PvP and sprint is down i’ll switch and switch back once sprint is back up. Between the eyes is a straight pvp talent, shadowstrike is just a gap closer but sucks due to needing to use vanish first if you’re in combat. They all have their uses of course.

[tulip shard]

I just hack people with my sword and kill them in a few hits

Although im full raid bis

[tardy topaz]

I was only speaking about PvE though, I hate PvP in MMORPGs 😅
If I spoke about PvP there wouldn't be an issue with runes so much

And why do you keep going on about PvP after I already specified that I'm concerned about PvE? 😄

[spice drum]

You can google this, you could check the pinned messages, you could check the other rogue classic discord, you could search for "bis" in this discord. You have so many tools at your disposal to answer this yourself

[opaque vortex]

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/rogue/dps-bis-gear-pve-phase-1

[raven snow]

Because i’m talking about pvp, i don’t like pve so i’m giving you my opinion on them.

[idle cedar]

"Why do people keep talking about the huge portion of the game I do not prefer"

[tardy topaz]

Well, he kept talking to me specifically about things I don't care about.
That's just a waste of both of our times.

[raven snow]

Yeah because you didn’t specify you were talking pve the first time you replied to me. So i gave my opinion before you mentioned it. I made a comment you’re the one that responded

[tardy topaz]

Alright, point taken.
It's in the past now.

[bronze valley]

Just sap him, then kill snakes. Can bandage then if needed. and not a 5min vanish CD wasted.

[coral portal]

the number of times I've had sap broken by poisons is non-trivial, but that's probably a consistently better way of doing it, yeah

the vanish CD hasn't ever been a big problem because by the time I get back to the entrance, reset, and get back to Cobrahn the CD is done

[bronze valley]

I would sprint past lots of mobs then use vanish to get out of combat, made the runs faster.

[spice drum]

This is why I stopped dueling with Chipped Bite

I think I lost like 10+ gold total to saps / gouges broken by chipped bite poison

[coral portal]

Oof

I was just a little surprised that sap can drop a stack of deadly on enemies but then I remember that classic is a little bit of a shitshow XD

[delicate dagger]

Heeeelp, why is my average melee hit so low compared to others on Baron? What is wrong ?
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CrXkD2J9MGg1T4vF#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=1

[bleak python]

is your warrior not using battle shout?

or sunder?

i see 3 sunder casts and no shout

and priest isn't using homies

[delicate dagger]

Yeah seems they missing doing their job. But is it doing that much as going from 70 average hit to 150 where its suppose to be

[bleak python]

leaving a lot of armor on the boss there with no homies or CoR and only 3 sunders

you can see it increase in chunks and i'd guess those sync up pretty well with the sunder casts

especially for a fight that short homonculus is going to make a huge difference

[delicate dagger]

How much armor do homies take away?

[bleak python]

don't know the exact number off the top of my head but it's more than a full 5 sunders and is applied instantly on first hit

any group concerned about clear times/parses should be running it, it's very very strong for physical dps

[delicate dagger]

Thx for the help

[opaque vortex]

yeah homies >>>> sunder

tooltip says 4315 at level 60 but idk how that scales

[bleak python]

i think its ~1100 at 25

or ~1000 based on this but i'm not sure how dated this is

[opaque vortex]

yeah I didn't think it was actually 3090 but i can't check out of game

[wise swallow]

Can somebody help me understand some basics on SoD "rotation"?

I feel a bit silly asking. The general ideas, as I understand them, are to keep SnD up and rolling. And to use Envenom at 5cp (and 5stack poison) as you can, specifically if the target is going to die in a timeframe where SnD wouldn't go full length.

But my issue is, if I 5cp SnD, it seems like by the time I'm getting an Envenom off next 5cp, SnD will be dropping pretty shortly after. Especially if I am trying to pool energy for post-Envenom burst?

If you were able to sit on a target dummy indefinitely, would the idea be to rotate 5cp SnD and 5cp Env alternating until the end of time? If so, is that with the basic assumption that SnD will fall off here and there inbetween?

[opaque vortex]

in most fights you hit some sort of intermission anyways so that's more of an idealized approach that doesn't work perfectly

so yea the idea is rotate them alternating until the end of time but in reality sometimes you gotta go 3cp SnD to 5cp SnD to 5cp envenom; it's ok to send a snd on less than 5 but you never want to envenom short of 5

at least that's how it's worked out for me, maybe i'm wrong on it

so i tend to prio getting a 3cp ish SnD up on pull, then 5cp envenom, then re-snd as quickly as possible afterwards

maybe that's wrong

[coral portal]

I think that Simonize had mentioned the gap in SnD is going to happen and it’s seemed best to always do a 5cp SnD

[wise swallow]

Thanks, this reply helps a lot!

[wise swallow]

Ok great thanks!

Assuming the pooling for maximizing post-env burst is also ideal but not always possible

[opaque vortex]

Most bosses only get one of those anyways in my experience so I just thistle tea for it

[wise swallow]

Ah yeah I’ve done that as well unless it’s a boss I need a burn phase on

[unique arch]

hello all question? for multilate (sod) with daggers i use? trying something else then saber slash

[dense ivy]

Got my rogue up and I've read over the wowhead build. Do you guys ever just get terrible rng on deadly poison procs from deadly brew?

Running sharpening stone on off hand and I had 5 combo points and I couldn't get my deadly poison stacks up

Is it better to just evis at that point?

[coral portal]

I’ve found it pretty rare that my cp hits 5 and I actually have a 5 stack of deadly, honestly

It’s one of the grosser parts of the rotation. If we have a feral Druid I’ll usually just dump it into Rupture if I don’t get the fifth stack before energy capping (evisc if the fight won’t last that long)

[bleak python]

what offhand are you using?

i found this happened a lot with a slower offhand but once i got boot knife it happens way less frequently

you want to bank some energy before hitting envenom anyways so if you're at 5 CP and 4 DP stacks don't feel too bad about just waiting for a second

if you're full energy and still not at 5 DP stacks then rupture but that shouldn't happen too often if you've got a 1.3 or faster OH and are keeping SnD going

[dense ivy]

Dagger

https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xgMJdGLAyw3ZFBXb#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=1

[bleak python]

which? the speed of your offhand is the most important stat on it

[dense ivy]

This was the fight I had issues with

[bleak python]

oof yeah you're using a 1.6 speed dagger

that's the problem

go buy a cross dagger with 1.3 speed

should be able to get one that has at least 1 dps stat on it for not all that much

the tiger and power ones will probably be a bit more expensive but even those i haven't seen for more than 3-4g on my server

fater OH = more hits = more chances for poison application

[dense ivy]

Ah ok

Yeah it was driving me nuts lol

Sitting on 5 cp and my poison kept falling off or not applying

[bleak python]

yeah with cross dagger easily available should be all you want in offhand until the boot knife or one of the 1.2 speed daggers from BFD

[dense ivy]

I also goofed I put a sharpening stone on my normal main hand for the first boss

Since I swapped for backstab

[bleak python]

even if you get chipped bite cross dagger is much better for offhand

[dense ivy]

But you can't click it off on sod apparently

So lost wildstrikes on the first few bosses

Ok ill make that change

Got a Boe in the last bfd run so should have some gold for a faster dagger

[bleak python]

yeah even one without any useful stats on it is going to be an improvement over that 1.6 dagger

[dense ivy]

I was told it's better to pool energy and just Saber slash before the tick pushes me back to full.

Instead of always being at 0

Any merit to this?

[bleak python]

you want to keep some energy if a fight needs dedicated kicks but otherwise i'd just pool before hitting envenom

not sure what the value would be at staying near full energy otherwise

[dense ivy]

Ok I didn't see the difference

[bleak python]

you want to pool before envenom so you can get extra attacks in while you have the increased chance to proc poisons

[devout patio]

Is there a list or something of the general talent build and rotation at 25? I am only 17 right now but would like a general idea

[coral portal]

Google the wowhead SoD guide for rogues

Has a ton of info including a talent build for leveling

[devout patio]

Thanks, will do

[dreamy vector]

what weapon is best on offhand for pvp backstab build, https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=209694/blackfathom-ritual-dagger or https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=209580/gusting-wind

[idle cedar]

I would assume the gusting wind but it's hard to say with classic/ not great sims

[void scaffold]

can u link rogue spreadsheet

sod

I found it nvm

but can someone explain me some mutilate build talents for pvp scenarios ? cant decide

[vestal arrow]

This is the Mut build for PvP, you can move points to precision from opportunity depending on your gear. https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/-320303-05_156hw76hna6hv

[spice drum]

Out of those 2? Gusting Wind

Neither is very good for backstab though. Ideally you'd have a statstick like Outlaw Sabre or Cruel Barb

Speed doesn't matter for OH with backstab build so you just want high dps and a statstick

[devout patio]

So am I not supposed to apply poisons now since I have deadly brew? Do I just buy sharpening stones and use those?

Oh I am dumb it says as if instant poison was applied so yeah I assume we would indeed just use Sharpening stones on both weapons unless we have Windfury/druid and then nothing on MH

[raven snow]

Yeah i just use sharpening on OH

[earnest halo]

Can someone explain why we want a slow MH? Is it because our skills scale off mh dmg?

[hearty oxide]

I would make the argument of not going that build if you don't have a Feral in your run right now. It can make a 30 DPS difference

Not getting a DP proc feelsbadman because your mh isn't attacking as often and you're energy capped but can't envenom

[coral portal]

the way I remember it, stuff like Sinister Strike/Saber Slash scale better with the slower weapon

[earnest halo]

yeah that's what I thought. there is a 100% weapon dmg component to it

[devout patio]

What the best weapon set-up before BFD? I just hit 25 and got lucky and Prison Shank dropped, I have that and a Cross Dagger for Off-hand

[spice drum]

Slower weapons tend to have higher average swing damage which is important for abilities like Saber Slash or Sinister Strike or Backstab. Also, Attack Power scales harder with slower weapons because it increases DPS and not swing damage.

For example, if you have enough Attack Power for +5 DPS, that is giving 15 swing damage to a 3.0 speed weapon, but +5 swing damage to a 1.0 speed weapon

So your swing dps will be the same, but abilities will hit harder with the slower weapon

[swift trellis]

So saber slash build i dont need to apply instant poison to weapons? And just use stone on my off hand? Sound correct

[swift trellis]

Just feels weird not to apply but o well one thing to worry about.

[coral portal]

all correct except use stone in main hand as well unless you're getting a buff from another player like windfury or the druid version

[modern elbow]

I finally achieved bis minus the dumb boes I refuse to buy.

[swift trellis]

Gratz and also in agreement .

[flint kettle]

Teach me how to see the set chest drop.

[modern elbow]

You must visualize it dropping. Shit I saw shoulders for first time yesterday

[spice drum]

Do Leggings of the Fang instead of legs, Bindings of Serra'kis, Cord of Aquinas, and Seal of Wrynn imo instead of the BoE options

[modern elbow]

I'm horde we got that deftkin belt Boi

[spice drum]

Oh yeah that's better if you're horde

Also Sentinel Pauldrons instead of Mantle of Thieves

[modern elbow]

Anyone buying shit like mantle of thieves is 100% a gold buyer and hopefully get caught

[dense ivy]

Is it just bad rng if my dp falls off at 5 stacks or am I doing something wrong?

Have the 1.2 dagger from bfd

[tough tapir]

Assuming you are keeping up snd just bad rng

[spice drum]

^

If you're at 5 stacks and have slice and dice up and you're casting abilities as you get the energy to cast them, your fate is in RNG's hands

[quasi fulcrum]

whats bis weps for a rogue thats BUILT DIFFERENT

im here to spam saber slash + envenom till the cows come home yahurrr me

[swift trellis]

Tried to use envenom on last boss of Bfd , said i couldnt. Any reason for this?

[hearty oxide]

Bro, why are my parses green and damage dogshit idu?

https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4F8aALrkZHyR7xcd#view=rankings&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2

[spice drum]

Talwar in mainhand, vampiric bootknife in offhand. Like it says in the guide

[spice drum]

Did you have deadly poison stacks on the boss?

[swift trellis]

I will check logs , just weird that it happens 3 different attempts through out the fight. But your probably right

[reef remnant]

Can someone explain why dagger is better offhand for DPS in SOD? I have Talwar MH and Meteor Shard in off hand is the shard better than Outlaw Sabre?

Is it just a matter of higher attack speed means more poison proc?

[spice drum]

Yep

Meteor Shard isn't great though, you want a faster dagger if you can

Slow MH = Big beefy ability damage, fast OH = consistent poison application

[reef remnant]

That makes sense, lost roll on vamp dagger last night so Meteor is my best option for the time being, should I just find a decent AH caster dagger with faster speed?

[bleak python]

yes

cross dagger probably your best bet

can find ones with good random rolls that will be pretty close to boot knife

but even one with useless random enchants will be better than meteor shard on speed alone

[proven hull]

Is anyone able to help me with a weapon comparison that i've been racking my brains over?
I'm essentially in a predicament (could be worse predicaments), i managed to get both serrakis dagger and vampire boot knife in raid because i was the only rogue and they both dropped. However, im a sabre slash sword/dagger build.
I'm currently thinking that cruel barb in MH with vamp OH is my best option until i get talwar.

My question is, what would be better, cruel barb in MH or serrakis dagger with vamp OH?

[spice drum]

Yeah you can buy cheap cross daggers or honed stilletos which are better than meteor shard

[spice drum]

"I'm currently thinking that cruel barb in MH with vamp OH is my best option until i get talwar" this is correct

You want Cruel Barb + Boot Knife

It's marginally better than Chipped Bite, but if you're human, it's far better

[proven hull]

awesome thank you so much

[swift trellis]

Ran first BfD run on rogue in mostly pre bis so my health is pretty low around 1200 id say. Got to turtle boss and im doing my best not to hit the bubbles on the ground. Feeling pretty good then bam shell pops and sends flying like a pin ball machine. I land on another ball it hits me im dead. Question is do i have to have a big health pot ready to survive this? What can i do to survive this at low health?

[spice drum]

You can do one of two strategies:

1. Be safe, run away from the boss (avoiding bubbles) while he casts his bubble pop. You can out-range the knockback effect but not the damage, so you can run back in after you take the damage. Drink a health potion here to help your healers.
2. Be greedy and keep dps'ing until the last second, popping Vanish at the last millisecond before the bubble pop. This will prevent you from getting knocked back and allow you to get a Garotte off on the boss doing big dot damage because it ignores armour

The first strat is safe and what most people do, the second strat is dangerous and you have to have good timing to time the Vanish just right. It's very very sensitive

[swift trellis]

Man thats a tough choice ,i wanna live but boy you make that sound so fun for the second option.

[quartz cradle]

You don’t lose much, if anything playing safe. Save sprint and get back fast and then vanish to open with garrote when you get back on boss

[swift trellis]

When you guys say play it safe and run away. Are you talking about just away from boss past the bubbles on the ground?

[spice drum]

Yes, run away from the boss, dodging bubbles along the way

[swift trellis]

Excellent ty , ill give this a try.

[bleak python]

if you're out of melee range you just get hit with damage and no knockback

imo try the vanish just make sure there are no bubbles behind you when you do

the burst does the same damage, it just gets bad when you get yeeted into a chain reaction of bubbles

[pseudo osprey]

Can anyone confirm whether Remorseless Attacks works with saber slash? I heard it doesn't but wanted to check.

[bleak python]

afaik they just fixed the bugged interaction where it got the crit boost but didn't consume the buff

but maybe their "fix" was to just prevent it from working lmao, i haven't used it since the fix

[kindred wagon]

If i recall there are a few abilities in classic you can vanish like this. I wonder if theres a weak aura for it

[umbral basin]

would you guys say Cross Dagger of Power > Gusting Wind oh for SS build?

[bleak python]

unlikely, or at least they're close enough to not justify spending for the cross dagger

cross dagger is going to be better than anything pre BFD but afaik any of the 1.4 or faster BFD OHs are all very close to boot knife

[umbral fjord]

Can I use Vanish to not get hit by Forked Lightning vs Sarevess?

[devout patio]

Do the Fist Weapons have and usfulness from BFD? I got both and so far in both of my raids its the only loot that has dropped that has been usable

[spice drum]

The mainhand is unbelievably terrible, the offhand is pretty good

Gusting Wind (the offhand) is basically bis, its only slightly worse than boot knife

[candid magnet]

Hi guys - just joined here. I am enjoying SoD and its my first rogue - is this the channel to follow for now within this discord? I notice the pins mention some Classic/WotlK - is that perhaps the 'better place to be' for SoD content or will it grow here as well? 🙂 Thanks

[spice drum]

Yeah, the dedicated classic discord is way better

It has consistent activity everyday

[devout patio]

So its worth me using the gusting wind then? I was using a Cross Dagger since its all I had

[umbral fjord]

It's worth

[devout patio]

Alright thanks

[frosty forum]

Hope the raid just comes out and the bleed immunity just isnt there

[steel turtle]

They will keep it so rogues and warriors don’t look so busted probably

[violet jay]

Whats some of the biggest crits you guys have seen?

I hit 1300 tonight

[hearty seal]

Hi all, I'm just rejoining after 12 years or so for SoD so apologies if it's a silly question but - Is there a way for me to view top DPS rogue logs for each boss at BFD? As in is there somewhere I can specifically see what ability they used and when?

Alternatively, are there reliable simulations to determine what ability sequence would give me the best DPS for different bosses?

[wraith yew]

Hey guys, new rogue to SOD, so with deadly brew rune we just do use any poison at all on pve? Just leave MH clear for windfury and put a sharpening stone on OH? DB will automatically proc insta and therefore deadly poisons?

[violet jay]

Correct

[spice drum]

1507 I think, just off memory

[spice drum]

I hope they do keep it. Rogues and warriors enjoyed being far ahead of the pack, and it also encourages people to be dynamic with their build and playstyle

[spice drum]

Yep. Go to vanilla.warcraftlogs.com, scroll down to BFD, go into* Rankings, then click on All Classes and change it to DPS Rogues, then you can click on whatever top log you want to analyze. Then, click on the rogue's name again in the player list for that log, make sure you're on Casts instead of Damage Done, and change it from Tables to Events. Now you'll see what abilities they cast and at what specific time for each boss :D

If you want to specifically analyze the casts for one boss, you can click Encounters and change it to whatever boss you like

[spice drum]

Exactly

[spice drum]

Also no, there isn't, because optimal ability sequence varies based on fight length and what your group is doing when

[hearty seal]

Thank you, I really appreciate it

[high rose]

What do you guys think of P2, will rogues go combat or assa, and for pvp will people go sub for the utility or ass/combat for the dmg?

[raven snow]

They hinted we should get dual spec so hopefully it comes phase 2. Feel like the spec will depend what runes we get and how well they go together.

[opaque vortex]

i think it kinda depends on whether or not things are bleed immune

also weapon accessibility

and then also what new rune(s) we get

[idle cedar]

Bleed/element immunity kinda sucks

I'd have gone with some kind of heavy resistance

[spice drum]

It encourages people to experiment with new builds and to dynamically switch up their playstyle during the raid. Plus, the classes it reigns in are the best performing classes of the previous phase

It's basically perfect for the game

[idle cedar]

Warriors kinda take the dick on it, you know what our number one non-bleed skill for damage is locked behind?

Spoiler alert - a bleed. 5 points of it.

[spice drum]

I'm not sure what you're referring to but it is irrelevant anyway

Warriors and rogues were, as I just said, the top dps of this phase, so even if they're not best next phase (they probably will be near the top) that's perfectly fine

And, as I just said, having to reconsider your build away from just "the bis build in a vacuum" to accomodate real raid environments is good for the game

[frosty forum]

It’d be cool if they gave use better runes for a non bleed build tho. Right now just feels like deadly poison, mut,and ss will be obsolete and left with basics

[spice drum]

Well Slaughter from the Shadows is already one, all we need is a rune to interact with Slice and Dice in some way

Plus whatever new slot and runes they can think of for it

Shadowstrike + SftS + something new on legs = profit

[idle cedar]

All fine in theory, but wonky in practice. Impale requires 3 points in a bleed, most of gnomer is bleed immune, along with disease immune, and remember, the game is not (and should not be) balanced around karma

warriors will be fine, if a bit pigeonholed

[idle cedar]

*6 points

3 rend 3 dw, but we'll see how it actually shakes out in practice

[spice drum]

"the game is not (and should not be) balanced around karma" it literally is though, and it should be. They nerf what is strong and buff what is weak

And yes, warriors will be fine. Just like rogues will be fine

[idle cedar]

balancing around karma would be more like "well you were strong for a season, so now it's time for you to be shit"

And if a spec is significantly out of line, making a raid be mostly immune to your damage doesn't seem like a good solution

[spice drum]

It's not hard to be honest dude, they aren't "mostly immune to your damage"

They're immune to the damage of one defining feature in one of your builds

[idle cedar]

At this point I believe you're just being intentionally obstinate, I'm moving on

[spice drum]

Haha funny that you're the one to say that

Being upset over only having to use the 4th strongest build in the fame instead of the 1st is definitely one way to approach balance

[idle cedar]

Make spec not work in raid not make spec balance, make spec not work in raid only

Doesn't fix world issues, doesn't fix pvp, only makes it entirely unviable to raid as

Ass backwards shitty way to address a balance issue

[spice drum]

It's not a way to address a balance issue, it's the way it already is

Changing it would be addressing a balance issue

So why would you change it to address something that isn't even a problem

Complaining about poison / bleed immune bosses is silly, period.

[idle cedar]

but let me guess, spending hours of your time defending a whole instance full of immune mobs/bosses is not silly

one of the only issues that I actually agree with retail people on

[knotty owl]

Rogues will prolly be daggers in phase 2. Less emphasis on bleeds. Probably a slow dagger that drops off a penultimate boss.

Don’t sweat the mechanical and bleed/poison immune stuff. Ph2 gonna be fun for us don’t worry.

As a reminder, every other 40-man raid in classic has BIG MH dagger that drops off final boss.

[steel turtle]

Having to play backstab next phase isn't a big deal, its good for the game and people will have to adapt and find the best rotation. Rogues are still going to be brought to raids and people can still parse high... and in the end we know rogue and warrior will dominate next phases when bleeds and posions apply again

[spice drum]

Real and true and based

[swift trellis]

So as i was leveling my rogue i got an invite to join a relax and chill group thats likes to help each other level and do bfd runs. Fast forward to me getting pre bis best i can before my first Bfd run with them. Had about 5 wipes through the entire raid finished 3rd dps. For me this is red flags right away. They say they have a 2nd raid team so next time i join that one bout the same results. So this im like ok lets just see if i can get some decent parses and move on. As normal with these runs people get the debuff on Baron and blow everyone off platform bad parse, next boss turtle shell blows up i survive give tank couple secs to gain threat as im at top of threat meter. Couple nasty crits turtle doesnt like it turns on me chop i dead. Mad at myself for not spamming vanish move on. Rest of the run goes well . Reguardless of me only being lvl 19 gear no neck,helm,trinkets i have green parses but i have purples throughout item level parses. I enjoy being in a guild but this doesnt seem like the right fit for me. They are nice people , so should i cut my loses and find a semi hardcore guild or tough it out with them and see how level 40 goes?

[spice drum]

Find a new guild, but also keep being honest with yourself about what you're doing wrong too

[swift trellis]

Ya what i was thinking, i main a feral on another server but wanted to try other classes to see what i wanna bring to level 40. Just need to most likely pug a group to get a real feel of rogue life.

[knotty owl]

What is this dedicated classic discord? Would you be so kind to send to me via pm please?

[raven snow]

Any channels dedicated to SoD?

[reef remnant]

Anyone have a good macro to equip a dagger (meteor) for a quick ambush then back to my normal rpimary? cant find one that works

[spice drum]

@knotty owl @raven snow the classic-dedicated rogue discord: https://discord.com/invite/mkfKCBB

[spice drum]

From my testing it looks like you can't have two weapon swaps in one macro. So I use:
#showtooltip
/equip Honed Darkwater Talwar

and

#showtooltip
/equip Chipped Bite of Serra'kis

On adjacent keybinds

But if you wanted to add the ability to ambush then immediately swap to sword, you could use:
#showtooltip Ambush
/cast Ambush
/equip Honed Darkwater Talwar

in combination with the dagger equip macro beforehand. So like you're walking around in Ashenvale, see someone, stealth and swap to dagger, then press the Ambush macro and you'll ambush then equip sword

[reef remnant]

Appreciate you

[unique bridge]

As a brand new rogue with zero experience since vanilla, what class has the all around good dmg raid m+ and easy flow rotation that would help me get the char geared for my mythic raid team. (Our rogue just quit for personal reasons)

[opaque vortex]

BM

[devout patio]

Is Chipped Bite MH and Vampiric Boot Knife OH the best PvP weapon set-up for Backstab/ambush build?

[spice drum]

Chipped Bite is definitely best MH by far, best OH is a little more personal preference. Boot Knife or Ritual Dagger are big for getting poisons applied, a second Chipped Bite is big damage

[limpid prism]

for pvp chipped bite is arguably not worth it. The proc will break gouges so many of the top PVPers do not run it and prefer meteor shard.

[spice drum]

You just have to play with the idea in mind that you don't have gouge. Sometimes that's worth the damage

But yeah oftentimes having no gouge is worse than doing more damage*

[opaque vortex]

god damn

both redirect AND an actual aoe button

[devout patio]

AoE was a huge want for me, def decided to make Rogue my main for P2 now

[wise swallow]

can anybody recommend a swing timer for SoD?

[idle cedar]

Or a standalone energy timer

[junior oar]

Hey all. 👋
I have a question about a macro I'm trying to make for my Rogue in Classic Hardcore.
As I often change weapons while levelling I like to have a "easy way" macro like this.

#showtooltip [equipped:Daggers] Ambush;[equipped:Swords/Mace/Fist] Garrote
/targetenemy [no harm][dead]
/cast Pick Pocket
/cast [equipped:Daggers] Ambush;[equipped:Swords/Mace/Fist] Garrote

But when I have sword in main hand and dagger in offhand it's not working.

Is there a way to use [equipped:Daggers] so it's checking main hand only ?

[tight current]

Wont the meteor shard proc break it?

[limpid prism]

nope, meteor shard does not break it, I think because it is an instant proc vs chipped bite being a DOT. I have tested these 2 thoroughly.

[tight current]

Cool, thx!

[vestal galleon]

where can i find a rotation map what spells should be in what buttons

[opaque vortex]

No such thing exists, you need to find keybinds that work for you

[lunar lava]

I am so hyped for classic cata

One of the best weapons ever

If you equiped two back then, you deleted people left and right

[raven snow]

if the leaked runes are the ones we get i think this will be the bis backstab build https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/-3203052002550000031_116ys56v966hz76m186vba6v7 thoughts?

[modern elbow]

You skip blade flurry and weapon skill but take 6% SS and Evis damage....2 abilities we won't use

Ok this is backstab so I can agree with using evis but flurry and dagger skill will be better

[raven snow]

wdym i did full combat and skipped blade flurry

[modern elbow]

Why skip blade flurry??

[raven snow]

ooohh aggression yeah thats true blade flurry with wep skill is better

sorry im high asf rn

[sick parcel]

Any rogue tanks here excited for the shuriken rune or is it w/e and "why would you play rogue tank in the first place?" .. I have a hard time figuring out what to get hyped for ^_^

[vagrant vault]

top left map piece.... in elwynn... is it a super are drop rate?

i've PP'd and killed over 100 bandits

[livid palm]

No

Could be at the wrong camp

[opaque vortex]

that + redirect will be so fucking nice

[modern elbow]

Where are all these Sims reddit keeps referring to

[idle cedar]

They're playing The Sims 4, they don't know anything about WoW they're just trying to get the equivalent of Recruit-A- Friend bonuses

[elder veldt]

Is this the only channel for classic, are there any good communities or places to look for discussing Phase 2 SOD?

[opaque vortex]

the classic rogue discord is a great place to discuss p2 sod

it's very active

https://discord.gg/Aks573M

[flat jackal]

Simonize is the place to go for most accurate and updated info https://discord.gg/pujEA9mpYr

[opaque vortex]

worth mentioning that simonize is a mod in the classic rogue disc

and he does show up in there periodically

[foggy remnant]

yoooo ABSOLUTLY CRAZY QUESTION... perfect run HO build does 300k what does KIR build do with 0 deaths... vs HO build doing like 260k 4 deaths compared to a KIR build 4 deaths

[void scaffold]

can u give a link for spreadsheet rogue sod?

simonize

[flat jackal]

His spreadsheets are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yymRVs-YZzrZU8-_BDmB1R9C8agpbgpP Current SOD one is "Simonize_SOD_Rogue_Spreadsheet_v1.19_Public"

[void scaffold]

ty

[dreamy dawn]

was mutilate fixed to be 40 energy?

[flat jackal]

it's currently live at 40 yes

[signal quartz]

somebody find shruiken toss faaast

[opaque plaza]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/609098122739712000.gif?size=48&name=pantsfast&quality=lossless

they said they wanted less bs random drop runes, so have other ones been found that would lead to some understanding of what clues may be?

[queen ermine]

is there SOD discord?

[grizzled wing]

need shuriken toss so tanking becomes fun zz

[queen ermine]

ye

better not be rep locked again

[grizzled wing]

exalted w the cartel this time

[queen ermine]

lol

[lunar flume]

does shiv do weapon damage? if so would it be worth running combat with the 50% offhand wep damage talent and use shiv with the new energy rune that gives offhand attacks a chance to gain energy?

[grand python]

yes, it does 'normal offhand weapon damage'

[lunar flume]

whats the energy cost with a fast dagger?

[grand python]

28 energy with a 1.3

[lunar flume]

oh damn so itd be 23 with the talent? 😮

[distant rain]

so no idea on shuriken toss yet?

[grizzled wing]

doesnt seem like it

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-i-need-it-gif-14006288

[opaque plaza]

other discord said lvl 30 you'll get mail for a rune

no other word of the quest/clues from it though

[distant rain]

whats the other discord

i need to be in the loop

[regal arrow]

are the head runes really happening'

?*

[opaque plaza]

p3

[empty kernel]

Bergie did you get the link to the other discord? I'm interested in following too

[burnt orchid]

Can I get that disc link as well

[distant rain]

I did not I would like it tho

[grizzled wing]

same

[signal quartz]

we know what rune this leads to yet?

level 30 letter

[queen ermine]

yea thats deadly brew from p1

[unreal scarab]

The quest "The Eye of Bhossca"

[empty kernel]

Any runes besides the level 30 one found yet?

[faint jewel]

yah this disc kinda slow with it, whats a sod rune phatty disc

[empty kernel]

I'm trying to find out too!

[faint jewel]

but how

level 30?

[signal quartz]

shadowstep

give us shruiken before 40 please god

[potent tree]

which wing?

gy?

[earnest mauve]

"So, get letter, go to box outside SFK, go to SM stables outside and get disguise, go inside GY and pickpocket a scyer for key, then go to lib and open box for note, then go to gy again sit on two benches and then get key out of grave, then go back to lib and open box for quest item."

[potent tree]

much appreciated

[dim furnace]

neeeeeeed shuriken pls

[mossy fossil]

[plain vault]

does deadly brew use rank 1 instant poison?

[earnest mauve]

Always the max rank you can have on your level

[humble surge]

dunno if its been posted but redirect dropped from Interrogator Vishas for me

[patent fog]

did we get the shitty reddirect?

[patent fog]

yep seems like it sad

[grizzled helm]

it can drop off the bloodmage too

[patent fog]

the only rune discovered is shadowstep right?

[grizzled remnant]

and roll with the punches

big tent in the centaur camp in 1k needles

[fluid cargo]

Master of Sub has been found ig

I got my Redirect from Azshir The Sleepless Rare

[twin prism]

Anyone know where to /sit in GY?

[novel zinc]

on non-interactable benches between the statues when you enter the undead part.

one on north side and one on south side, you'll get an "faint click" emote when you do it correctly

[twin prism]

thank you!

[fluid cargo]

You might wanna let people know that The box isnt where you picked up that peice of paper and its in the Gallery of Treasures in the 1st Room on the Left

[grizzled helm]

lol got these off a worgen.. crazy how unlucky/lucky i am. 1 week ago id be set until end game

[fluid cargo]

LOL

[grizzled helm]

ik lmao dont rub it in

[fluid cargo]

2 Weeks ago those pants sold for Easily 50g

[grizzled helm]

dude

what server are you on?

[fluid cargo]

Lava Lash

[grizzled helm]

my server they sold for 400 gold

legit recently

[fluid cargo]

A month ago

They were selling for 150

[grizzled helm]

nah sooner than that for me

yeah

still crazy luck though. ill take it, 30g is a nice little buffer to help pay for leveling engi

[fluid cargo]

Its ok i never saw them

[grizzled helm]

me either

but ive killed over 1000 worgens

so it was due

[fluid cargo]

Im sitting on my Fang legs since 20

And im 32

[grizzled helm]

haha right on me too, LOTF are honestly insane for their level requirement

[placid flower]

how the heck do you get the box opened with the key for the shadow step rune with out getting stomped by mobs?

[fluid cargo]

The disguise

[placid flower]

oh rofl

[fluid cargo]

And once you TUrnin the Eye quest. Take a Run to UC And back

It still triggers like it did for DBrew

[grizzled helm]

is there a video i can watch so i see how to get shadowstep

or some guide somewhere

[fluid cargo]

@grizzled helm My Reply to His message as Well

[grizzled helm]

i mean from the start lol

[fluid cargo]

Oh yeah

[grizzled helm]

i have no reference point

[fluid cargo]

Do you have Mail from C and are you 30?

[grizzled helm]

i just hit 30

and yeah i do

[fluid cargo]

You remember the House for Dbrew?

[grizzled helm]

ya

i just got the note

so i gotta go back to sfk

[fluid cargo]

No

[grizzled helm]

god sakes

[fluid cargo]

SM

Go to the Stables outside SM

[grizzled helm]

the note says return to the cabin beside pyrewood village

why would i go to SM

wait are you horde? these are likely different for alliance and horde

[fluid cargo]

Im ally

[grizzled helm]

then why does the note say to go to pyrewood village and you're telling me SM lol

[grizzled remnant]

where was master of sub found?

[fluid cargo]

Its in STV

[fluid cargo]

The Note tells you to go pickup the quest in Pyrewood Village Which sends you to SM.

[grizzled helm]

ok so i DO need to stop in pyrewood village

[fluid cargo]

Check your DMs

[grizzled helm]

ok ty

[chrome gorge]

A note to this is you also need to have learned Rank 2 and not just be able to learn it or it will still apply rank 1, as far as I can tell. My details says Instant Poison rank 2 now for example where at 29 without having learned Rank 2, it did not (Rank 2 is available at 28)

[runic olive]

Morning guys. I'm new to the channel. I joined because I have some questions that I couldn't find information about while searching google. (Or because I didn't understand the information provided.) I want to know more about hit rating and poisons.

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/rogue/-005-5020232130320121350105201251

That is what I have so far ( I haven't hit 80 yet. Playing Wotlk) The most direct question i have is should I get hit rating from gear to get the hit cap for pvp from gear or should I just get precision? I feel like I should do the latter because it effects poisons too. I will also be getting Honor amongst thieves, I just don't n eed it for leveling solo. if any one has documentation on this i'd appreciate it, too. Thanks!

[pseudo dock]

any rogue runes found yet? 😄

[latent locust]

found rolling with the punches

[empty kernel]

Master of Subtlety has been found too - https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/rogue/master-of-subtlety-rune

As well as Shadowstep - https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/rogue/shadowstep-rune

[opaque plaza]

swamp of sorrows

disarm box

(42, 30 in swamp. you get hit with a poison dart from the left, gotta disarm the trap and thats it)

[ionic umbra]

wow thx

[opaque plaza]

just copying from other discord

https://i.imgur.com/rB4JvfZ.png

second photo of another person for confirm

[opaque vortex]

does it work with blade flurry?

[opaque plaza]

not my photo

[true berry]

Is there a specific lockpicking level needed

[paper lance]

didn't require lockpicking when I just did it... just disarm the trap on the log/dead tree to the left then open the box

[storm apex]

guys.....its amazing.

[ionic skiff]

hey did they push an update into saber slash? It does a purply X now

[ionic umbra]

noone sum there 😦

[opaque plaza]

other discord pretty much said it shit lol

so we got zero dps increase runes this phase

[latent locust]

Master of subtlety is a 10% dmg increase, what you on about?

[muted bough]

It helps with aoe threat which tanking rogues had been asking for

[brittle drum]

Get poisoned Knife from the same quest for druid rune eclipse

[dusk ingot]

is higher weapon damage or DPS better for combat offhand

[ionic skiff]

i believe you want fast OH with deadly brew

[dusk ingot]

ok, just wondering cause chipped bite has higher wep dmg but hypnotic blade is higher dps, so i wasnt sur

[vivid topaz]

Anyone know if improved backstab applies to mutilate?

[dusk ingot]

it should

[rough wyvern]

Yes it does

But slaughter from the shadows does not

[rough wyvern]

More info plz

[ionic skiff]

yes

[brittle drum]

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/classes/druid/eclipse-rune

Follow this guide for the Poisoned Knife rune

[ionic skiff]

so we dont use WS or WF? Just instant poison

(and deadly)

brew that is lol

[dusk ingot]

?

we only use deadly brew

no poison if we have ws or wf

[ionic skiff]

WS is better than running poisons?

[dusk ingot]

deadly brew is instant poison and deadly poison for free and you can use ws or wf

[ionic skiff]

wait, the instant free from DB can downstream proc the deadly free too?

[bleak python]

how is it phase 2 and people are still just figuring this out

what have you been doing for the last 3 months lmao

[empty kernel]

Why be rude to them bud? They may not pay as much attention.

[nova stratus]

Anyone have the talents for this new muti build?

[idle cedar]

Elitism over irrelevant things makes people feel good

[opaque vortex]

it is incredible that they just didn't try or ask about it until now tbh

[bleak python]

yeah honestly more baffled than trying to be mean

if you're on this discord you're putting in more effort than most and deadly brew has been asked about so much it's become a meme

[icy drift]

Hello, anyone knows which talent is better between "Malice" (Increase your critical strike chance by 1%) or Dagger Specialization (Increase your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 1%). Im running with daggers in both my hands

[bleak python]

maybe quick draw/bte/shuriken?

probably pretty marginal

[covert steppe]

Is there a resource for p2 runes? Or anywhere the information is being thrown together

[bleak python]

wowhead most centralized and up to date source rn short of the discords

[covert steppe]

Yeah I’m looking for the discords

[bleak python]

simonize discord then

[covert steppe]

Gotcha, he’s usually dead on with rogue stuff

[bleak python]

but think wowhead has everything except waylay which nobody knows rn

unless its changed in the last hr

[covert steppe]

Nice, seems those all got updated today

I checked like six hour ago

So there’s an SM , SoS, desolace/arathi kinda, STV

So maybe another one arathi

OR, alterac, which sounds right because syndicate

[weak trout]

anybodies scarlet initiates uniform bugged? it keeps saying invalid target

[rough wyvern]

Same

[muted bough]

Might have to relog to fix it

[grizzled helm]

WOOT WOOT

[grizzled wing]

oh so they found shuriken toss, nuice

[distant rain]

is shuriken toss based ranged AP?

[still radish]

its awful.

Been nerfed from the data mined value to 15% AP at 328 ap it hits for 40 damage.

[potent tree]

it's basically just a threat aoe

imagine throwing rough dynamite in SM, it's the same thing

[cloud shard]

is anyone else disappointed by shadowstep? its not off the gcd so it kinda sucks for tagging

[foggy bobcat]

is there a poison trainer in UC?

[devout patio]

Where is the trap I am supposed to disarm for shuriken toss?

nvm

[versed lintel]

whats the tech gamers

[snow vale]

yo does shuriken toss double down with blade flurry?

[fluid cargo]

No

[snow vale]

ty

[sullen plover]

yo probaly a question t hat has been answered before but i just started playing again now in p2 of SOD

was wondering do you need to apply instant poision to weappon or does deadly btrew cover that now

[snow vale]

no you dont

db applies it

[bronze pier]

where is Waylay rune

[sullen plover]

does applying IP give you more damage since it would give u more chances to apply or no?

i saw a vid sayhing it doesnt increaes the chance but it's a month old so idk how valid it is

[snow vale]

no it doesnt

[sullen plover]

ah kk ty

[covert steppe]

Prospective mutilate tank build I’m workshopping

Adrenaline rush with mutilate CP gen sounds just stupid so I can’t wait to try

[grand python]

is shuriken toss really underwhelming for anyone else?

I seem to do more dps just mashing mut

[covert steppe]

Damage yes, but it’s not supposed to be competitive DPS tool

More a threat tool imo

You gotta figure, it’s ranged, so that’s a pretty@massive upside, so rogues can contribute to AOE very safely in heavy cleave situations

[grand python]

I guess so, just seems really situational in comparison to everyone elses new skill

oh well, was excited to get aoe

[covert steppe]

I’m still excited because rogue tank

Weird cost at 30 energy however, now I have to learn new energy budgeting

[grand python]

maybe they're giving us something to get 1 cp from thats cheap, for when we get 4 cp from 2 mutilates

[devout patio]

Has anyone used the Poison Knife rune? Is it even worth using?

[fluid cargo]

Im getting it right now im on my last step

[devout patio]

Was about to get grab it myself since I just grabbed the tank one

[fluid cargo]

Its a hike

[devout patio]

Figured I would take a dungeon break and get my sleeping bag and runes

[ionic skiff]

anyone else not train the upgraded levels of gouge and kick

[grizzled wing]

im broke so no not yet

[ionic skiff]

well the CC doesnt change by rank

man you cant sap demo locks, that is a real bummer

[finite glen]

I wana get the Poisoned Knife Rune but there is no quest at Extinguished Campfire. Does anyone know the reason?

[nimble sleet]

Does waylay work with mut?

[devout patio]

All the waist runes just seem so lackluster for PvE

[nimble sleet]

anyone know if i got a stored boon of blackfathom, if i turn in the quest can i get it again?

or do i have to unboon, use it and turn in quest when i want it again

[chrome creek]

The threat on is is pretty bad though

I've been trying to tank with the new tank runes but dungeons are such a shit show still.

Shruiken toss needs added threat generation or more damage or something.

[covert steppe]

Yea. Everyone got a lot of new AOE toys but threat gen across the board hasn’t kept pace

[sharp isle]

does deadly brew apply rank 2 instant poison?

[nimble sleet]

details shows me it uses the highest rank of instant poison learned

[knotty pilot]

this is what i'm most curious about

[errant palm]

Have anyone made a weakaura or something for redirect already they could share?

[steel plover]

anyone have any ideas for talent builds at 40?

[boreal frigate]

Someone know which of the 2 daggers is better from the STV event?

[steel plover]

do people know if combat or sin rogue is going to be better at 40?

[manic hull]

Trying to figure that out as well.

[wicked pollen]

Io team! Does DW (dual Wield Spec') increase your mutilate dmg, since it increases off-hand damage up to 50% ?

[terse bluff]

sure

[candid knoll]

What would be the best spec for 40? Assassination or Combat ?

[wicked pollen]

sub

[unreal scarab]

Question is, should assassination go for seal fate or Opportunity

[ionic skiff]

2x tainted pierce with deadly brew for pve 31-40?

feels like you'd just get endless instant procs

i have a dream where you just keep SnD up and WF totem and hit 5 stacks of deadly almost instantly and then just hammer smash DB-triggered instant poisons like a fury warrior in execute zone

[modern jetty]

Do we know the minimum lock picking for rolling with the punches rune?

[true berry]

125

120 with gloves

[dark kite]

is deeadly brew affected by my learned poisons rank ?

[ionic skiff]

Yes

[hazy heart]

i was thinking something like this for a straight forward raid boss build, since gnomer mobs aren't immune to poisons. https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/005303105-302301-05_156hm66va76m386vba6hv

this is for using mutilate instead of saber slash since mut is now 40 energy and gives 2 combo points. 2x more cps means we can actually spam envenom instead of saving for snd.

alternatively, go all the way down into 5/5 seal fate, or take 5 points from opportunity and put them into vile/improved poisons

if the nature/bleed "resistances" they talked about in the dev interview about gnomer are nerfing us then idk. i guess spec for crit and rely on mut+white dmg and use evisc instead of envenom

[fickle nexus]

Hi guys! I am playing on Tel Abim, Turtle WoW. What should I do with these two daggers PvE wise?

I have Perdition Blade, Felstriker and a custom gloves with +7 dagger skill; Horde, 30% crit, 670 AP, Hand of justice.

[dusk ingot]

Which bloodmoon dagger do we think is better?

[hazy heart]

well one is offhand only, so it depends on what you already have in mainhand. if i already had a good MH weapon from gnomer or a lvl 40 quest or something i'd go offhand.

[steel plover]

i wonder why shuriken toss has such a low attack power %

[hazy heart]

it's for rogue tanks so they can have aoe threat. it was 25% before p2 launch i think, but for some reason they dont want dps rogues to be aoe'ing.

i was hype to try it out, got it, went to SM gy and quickly discovered i would just do more dps with mut+snd

if it would spread poisons to the 4 aoe targets, that would be incredible, but probably OP

[steel plover]

Wait so it cant even apply poison?

[hazy heart]

It does to your primary target but not the aoe targets

[dark portal]

anyone have a pvp build for phase 2?

[devout patio]

Is it bad to have 2 daggers of same speed in both hands?

[quartz blade]

You cannot enter SunkenTemple and complete the quest for 35dps dagger in p2
idk if its because temple will be 50 raid - or they just disabled it
Hope this info stops anyone from trying the quest
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/quest=3528/the-god-hakkar

[devout patio]

I got the dagger from SM quest and was gonna get the RFD dagger for OH but they are same speed, not sure if thats bad for not

[quartz blade]

No its fine untill u get epic wep from stv + gnomeregan. pvp wep " scouts blade " from WSG rep is also very good early. 2 good dps daggers for muta is also pref'd 🙂

[devout patio]

Alright thanks, sadly I am not revered on my Rogue or I would grab the dagger from there. I still have Boot Knife from BFD as my current OH

Started Phase 1 as Hunter main and grinded to exalted only to swap to Rogue.. true pain

[shut spire]

The SM quest gives a sword I thought, also the RFD does too?

[devout patio]

SM quest gives a dagger

[shut spire]

The one to kill the 4 bosses?

[shut spire]

ty let me look it up

[devout patio]

RFD dagger is this

From last boss

[shut spire]

Big thanks!

[devout patio]

Np, my plan is to use both for now after I farm it out

[rich star]

Hey guys, what you think for rogue is best spec for gnom sod?

And when you play mutilate , what for offhand dagger?

[simple glacier]

what WA/ElvUI profiles do you guys use

[nimble sleet]

i use wa that tracks energy regen anchored to resource frame. no elvui. i might make some weakauras for rogue tanking so its easier to track the blade dance

[ionic skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-simpsons-hi-bye-gif-16529059407582436389

^^Me pressing BF in GY with two mages

[hoary solstice]

hey guys whats the best build for STV/PVP and whats teh best for dungeon/raiding?

[ionic skiff]

I'm aiming for something like this; 40% bonus crit with a bunch dumped into dodge/parry to proc more HP. Maybe makes more sense to improve gouge and get sprint immunity instead

this is running Mut btw

[livid palm]

I honestly wouldn’t respec for STV. It’s a lagfest shitshow that you just zerg around in and try not to get 1 shot by boomies.

[ionic skiff]

then my above will pump hard in PVE

[livid palm]

Your spec is not optimal either

[ionic skiff]

in my heart it is

[livid palm]

Opportunity is better and the 2 points in repost would be better used elsewhere lol

[ionic skiff]

Yeah I said you could move those around

[livid palm]

And skipping expertise is dumb

[ionic skiff]

Just post your spec for the poor guy then, good lord lol

[livid palm]

They are on WoWhead

[valid jay]

hey guys, anyone know where we can get the gnome wb please?

[vague lily]

IF (atleast for alliance)

[hazy heart]

Quazii makes good ones

[ionic skiff]

Just be helpful homie - if you wrote a guide, link it

[hazy heart]

essentially you should spend your points to optimize poison dmg since we're using deadly brew + envenom. opportunity is huge because we're always behind the boss in pve and mutilate is stronger than saber now. wowhead did update their dps rogue page for phase 2 last night/this morning. but yea since deadly brew is so damn strong we're still better off in the assass tree

[shut spire]

Anyone have info on where to get this from yet? Cant find anything.

[hazy heart]

i believe those drop in gnomer for the new crafting

[shut spire]

None dropped in our gnomer run. Im thinking skinning from some kind of mob

[hazy heart]

or combining some material from gnomer with regular leather.

[lime umbra]

any chance someone have a Weakaura that track/show my deadly poison stacks (only mine) im currently using elvui .. and i have a tough time seeing how many stacks i have.. and if its even my stacks 😄

[hazy heart]

this is the one i use... it's a full package for SoD but deadly poison is on there

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v89srv23l1okx3sxkvdbt/Quazii-Classic-Era-ROGUE-SoD-Hardcore.txt?rlkey=6iz4si2k5bbt2pm5kw6k8tsvk&e=1&dl=0

[distant rain]

anyone got a build for tanking yet?

[hearty dune]

anyone running a sub pvp build?

[sleek notch]

From the PvP event, should we aim for the one handed dagger or the off hand dagger?

[livid palm]

One handed

[bleak python]

off hand probably going to end up being better in pvp imo but you'll want a good MH before using it over the one handed

[spare bear]

So I’m a rogue tank main and have been a rogue tank since phase 1. Are we going down to get AR in combat? I assumed we were but wanted to know if anyone else had any suggestions

[hazy heart]

yea there's nothing in the top level of the ass or sub tree that would be better. AR will be great for building initial threat

[terse marsh]

Anyone tanked thermaplugg yet? He slaps me around, his attacks do magic dmg for like 2k but i feel im getting parry hasted

[winged surge]

which of these 2 is better for raid you guys think?

[hazy heart]

just looked up a random rogue tank from a random therma fight... it looks like decently heavy melee dmg and then special/magic abilities being used at the same time. maybe you're getting both at once and it seems like a parry haste... but then again a lot of mobs in classic do parry haste https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3FxnJtKXqwL7hVpf#fight=46&type=damage-taken&source=2

[livid palm]

Neither

[winged surge]

enlighten me then

[livid palm]

Cold Blood is the spec atm

It’s on WowHead

[winged surge]

thats the first one i posted

[livid palm]

My bad miss clicked it

Then yes that’s the one lol

[terse marsh]

Could be, not sure if we had logs but there were some issues with healing as well. We had to pug the two healers and i don’t think they were aware when we tank swapped, i sat at 30% hp for several seconds often. Also my gear could be better, sat around 3k health.

[hazy heart]

could be, everyone is still gearing up. if you do have logs i'd just check to make sure you're keeping blade dance uptime as close to 100% as possible

[terse marsh]

Yeah that’s not an issue, i run muti

Will try again tomorrow

[hazy heart]

i havent done the fight yet but whoever STX-97/IC is, does supercooled smash which looks like it hurts real bad

[terse marsh]

Freeze part is fine tbh, the fire slaps because of the debuff

Freeze debuff only slows then freezes you at 11 stacks which can be dispelled or taunt swapped

We got to p4 where the pain from p1 begins again

Gonna try firepot for p1 and 4 tomorrow

Anyway bed

[dark kite]

Should i use SnD if i dont have it improved in the talents ?

[hardy kindle]

Any use for this ?

[hazy heart]

Yes but also you should use improved snd

[hazy heart]

I was looking this up earlier… Im not sure but I think it gives you a chance to pickpocket extra items off trolls in STV

[naive vigil]

Is there a better discord for SoD rogue discussions?

[thick birch]

do you still put instant poison in offhand with windfury in group?

[livid palm]

You never use instant poison

[ionic skiff]

That dude animosity is allergic to helping

I believe you use sharpening stone on offhand and wind fury or feral strikes for main hand

With deadly brew handling all the poison duties

[hazy heart]

yea sharpening stone in OH if you have wild strikes or windfury in your group

[devout patio]

is the best blood moon weapon the fist one?

[livid palm]

Depends on spec. But if mutilate get the one hand dagger.

[devout patio]

Bloodharvest blade?

[signal quartz]

I didn't notice poisoned knife had a minimum range until tonight

very unfun

[devout patio]

quite the drop I found

[rich star]

And what about offhand? Is Stv one is bad dagger ?

[lime umbra]

Have anyone simmed if dismantle enchant is better than weap dmg ?

[rough quartz]

So am I the only one who noticed that the STV daggers are mutually exclusive with each other?

This feels like an oversight, since the powerbudget is split over them, meaning we just get worse choice than other classes

[hoary solstice]

So what's the best pickpocket farm now? SM Cath/Armory? Or are there better? For pickpocketing?

[hoary solstice]

sharpening stone is just for BFD

[raven snow]

Is Ambush for PvP worth it? You kinda need to waste a runeslot for energy cost reduction to not starve yourself of emergy after opening, and honestly just opening with mutilate x3 into BTE feels better ... Ambush crits for about 650-700 on Clothies, but Mutilate+3*Autoattack Opener can reach 500-700 depending on Poison Proccs/Crits, gives you 1 Combo Point more and u can get your finisher faster...

[hazy heart]

my primary use for it so far has been to put crip poison on clothies. the most underwhelming rune so far of p2 is shuriken, imo.

[raven snow]

Currently running this for PvP Burst in STV, OpenWorld and Arathi for quickly bursting people down with 3x Mutilate into finisher, anyone already tried out some Ambush build extensively? feels like i am faster Bursting with 3x Mutilate into finisher, than Ambush-2x Mutialte into finisher.... Also you kinda need 13 points into Sub, and loose a lot of potential crit damage for mutilate that way...

[hazy heart]

since mut is now 40 energy, it’s better than ambush for pretty much every situation

[hazy heart]

actually, with master of subtlety, ambush may be better to open with on clothies

[wide bane]

Hey guys - any tips on what spec to run and how to deal with the 5th boss in Gnomer, Mechanical Menagerie? Can't wrap my head around how to optimize it except for blade flurry and engi bombs

[lapis leaf]

running mutilate in pvp would mean the slower ur dagger the better cause of higher damage right? so that makes the 2.0 off hand dagger from blood moon absolute BiS? or am i missing something?

im confused because wowhead says a 1.4 green dagger with 25.5 dps is BiS for off hand even though the blood moon has way higher damage? i understand the poison proc theory but for pvp the 2.0 dagger is better by far or?

[ionic skiff]

No I think that's right; slower the weapon, higher the top-end and baseline which is what you want in 2-3 hit burst attacks

typically you go dps first over long pve fights because of the amount of white damage and poisons but I dunno how much mut plays into raiding yet, someone wiser than me will

[knotty pilot]

hey guys, i know this is a very specific ask, but my google skills are failing me here. Is there a comprehensive resource anywhere for strong PVP gear at any level? The problem I'm running into with standard BiS lists is they're all for either PvE (which doesn't value stamina at all) or PvP 60.

[lime umbra]

thanks ill check it out ❤️

[ionic skiff]

Honestly I don't think it exists because everyone will largely only use one set of gear

[hazy heart]

just get the warsong/AB rep gear, the STV event weapon, and stack stamina with w/e you can

sorry i assumed you were talking about SoD - if you're talking about classic era then disregard

[knotty pilot]

no im talkin about sod

just tough finding gear because all of these compiled BiS lists will value a +20 agi chest over a +18 agi +15 stam chest

[high valley]

is there a sod rogue discord?