wow-general

[mellow pilot]

If you use that you simply don't care about knowing your class well enough to do things better and with better results

[woeful geyser]

ff14 has like 2x the amount of buttons since basically always, and its a game desinged for consoles since day1

[plush dune]

i use obr in mythic raid

[woeful geyser]

why the fuck do people think that the amount of buttons is what makes that a thing

and why the fuck do people think that they will do a console release when they literally said "No plans for that rn"

like, they would literally tell people that they do it

[mellow pilot]

My man speaking facts 🗣️

[noble kestrel]

FF14 has too many buttons

that's my hot take

[woeful geyser]

its just

jfc just think for 5 seconds for once

why would they "hide" it, whats the logic behind that

if you make something avaible for other hardware, you tell people that you do it so the people using that hardware will get hyped and try it out

[noble kestrel]

@woeful geyser but what if they put WoW on the 3DS. We could play WoW IN THREE DIMENSIONS

But ye if it was gonna come to console it'd be part of a huge market campaign, etc. It'd be openly tested and discussed and a direct goal.

[woeful geyser]

im just trying to understand the thought process there

is it some form of "omg they totally do it but they just dont say it because people will HATE it, and then shadow drop it without any announcment!!!!"? like seriously do people think thats how you release things in the real world lol

[noble kestrel]

My ancedotal experience is I've seen people coming back for the prepatch / game changes rather than leaving. Newcomer chat is more active than it's been for a while, too.

[woeful geyser]

if the "simplification" changes will increase or decrease the playercount cant be said yet

we will see that a couple months into the expansion i gues

[noble kestrel]

Ye

[woeful geyser]

if classes are simple and content falls over, yeha sure you will probably see a drop

[noble kestrel]

I think we'll have a decent idea of how well it's going by the middle-to-end of S1.

[iron belfry]

with how much content they started to release since DF they have a lot of players.
almost every week there's something new. mostly crap content but something to do

and now they are releasing 1 or 2 raid bosses in the .5 patches, that would bring more ppl back during those times

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, the new raid approach is super interesting

[past yoke]

new raid in a .5 patch is miles better than turbo boost

[noble kestrel]

It's only a lair boss, but ye.

Super cool idea.

And a throwback to the older WoW style of raid content

I hope it works out

[iron belfry]

remember shadowlands when all we had was same 8 dungeons for 3 years and shit raids?

[past yoke]

im curious about the difficulty they choose for that raid

[noble kestrel]

Ditto.

[past yoke]

you will never again call nathria castle a shit raid

[woeful geyser]

tbf, thats once again based on how that content actually is

like, it is known that while the "casual" playerbase makes up most of the players, they also tend to not actually stay with the game for a longer time after the first few weeks of a update

and if those 1 boss raids are just kinda weak filler that nobody does after 2-3 weeks anymore, they dont really help them

[noble kestrel]

Ye, but you also don't want them to be a brutal fight for multiple weeks. It's gotta be a balance.

[past yoke]

it shouldnt be a piss easy boss but shouldnt be aimed for the guilds that already have ce difficult

[iron belfry]

they might just make it 300+ pulls boss

[past yoke]

but more than difficult, it should be an extremely unique boss

[iron belfry]

with some bis trinkets

[noble kestrel]

I imagine N will be relatively easy, Heroic will be a lot more challenging and Mythic will probably be a late Myth raid boss style? Who knows. We'll be going into it with full gear probably so it'll be fascinating to see

[woeful geyser]

we had that problem with cruucible tbh

like, nobody care about crucible, raid might aswell didnt exists

[noble kestrel]

Last time we had something like this was BfA, I guess

[woeful geyser]

"world first race" happend and basically nobody played it outside of that lol

[past yoke]

i skipped bfa

was crucible turbo hard or what happened?

[woeful geyser]

released when most people where still progging the normal raid

mythic was hard

heroic and normal had like, 1 trinket that was good

[past yoke]

i see

[woeful geyser]

and the result was simply nobody playing it really

[iron belfry]

well a lot of ppl will still be progging previous raid when the 1-2 boss raid will be released

[past yoke]

it has to have good loot and be unique af then

[woeful geyser]

cus they finished the crrent normal raid and then took a break instead of going into ANOTHER raid prog immedialy

which is also a problem there, if you release raids in a way that progress never stops at all

well, mythic raids will shrink down by a good bunch very quickly lol

[noble kestrel]

Yeah. The first one is in the .7 patch iirc, so 12.0.7

Which isn't a bad gap

[woeful geyser]

and with less mythic raiding going on, heroic starts to die out aswell tbh

cus the "heroic only" people stop clearing heroic after some time

[noble kestrel]

Ye, a lot of groups just don't bother with Mythic for a myriad of reasons.
And if content is too hard (or too easy) it can result in a bottleneck extending progress that results in more burnout

[past yoke]

biggest issue for me would be the in bewteens, so the guilds that do 4-5 mythic bosses or so

until they find the ovinax wall

[solar sun]

i wonder if they'll end up having servers specifically for the xbox players or if they'll mix them in with everyone, that should be fun

[noble kestrel]

we're all xbox players already

[solar sun]

there you go

[plush dune]

i play wow on my gamecube

[solar sun]

i run it on a cluster of toasters

its great

[woeful geyser]

we have somebody playing with controller for years now, and i can gurantee that she is better then most people complaining about "omg less buttons means controller gameplay and console game ruined now pressing 1 2 3 4 q e r t is extremely different"

[solar sun]

i hope you recover well from your stroke

[noble kestrel]

What a weird thing to say.

[noble kestrel]

I can't believe controllers ruined vanilla WoW gameplay

[woeful geyser]

4-8 buttons + a couple modifiers on keyboard = hardcore gaming

4-8 buttons + a couple modifiers on a controller = gaming is ruined, ignore all the other MMORPGs where thats an option, or games that are way harder to play then WoW that are controller based

[noble kestrel]

I'm just thinking about the vanilla.. I think Fire? rotation? that was 1 button.

[past yoke]

it has to be a nightmare to kick in a big pack with controller tho

[woeful geyser]

eh, the game allready auto targets casting enemys when you tab

its not optimal, but its far from extremely bad or making a huge difference

ofc you will struggle in +18 keys, but like, only a handfull of people do that stuff anyway

[past yoke]

i didnt know that was the case

pretty cool tho

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, it has some logic to it where it'll typically tab you to the most pressing thing (which is a cast, typically)

It's not perfect and sometimes it'll do something weird.

[past yoke]

idk, i personaly see no issue with wow on controller

[noble kestrel]

There isn't any, you can play it like that now.

[past yoke]

it will be on game pass before xbox tho

yeah thers a lot of specs that can be played on controller

[noble kestrel]

If it was going to be on gamepass, it would've been on gamepass by now. That's never happening.

[past yoke]

before the pruning evne

[woeful geyser]

there is no way they put wow on gamepass

like, 0% chance

[noble kestrel]

And why would Microsoft want to combine two revenue streams into one?

[woeful geyser]

that would be absolutely dumb in every way possible

^ what he said

[past yoke]

true

[noble kestrel]

Esp as Gamepass price has gone up and it's way less attractive now.

[woeful geyser]

why would they reduce 2 sub services into 1 for no reason at all

[solar sun]

probably next year. xbox is a pc already, new one is more of a pc and will be able to play wow.

[woeful geyser]

like, they would need to basically DOUBLE the gamepass subs to go even

and do you think thats a realistic thing?

[solar sun]

do you think copilot recording your screen was a good idea? you think thats a requirement? lol.

you have no clue how business works

like zero

[hazy halo]

There is a hof sub rogue pov on dimi with controller

[woeful geyser]

the next xbox is literally a microsoft PC

[noble kestrel]

found my new hero

[solar sun]

welcome to a few messages ago

[past yoke]

what a fucking giga chad

[solar sun]

xbox is already a pc

with a fancy sticker

[woeful geyser]

what has copilot to do with that

copilot is put in because microsoft has huge stocks in AI bullshit and wants to keep it relevant to avoid the bubble bursting

that slightly different then "lets remove a sub service that makes us millions over millions each month for no reason at all"

[solar sun]

bad decisions, you seem to think good decisions are some sort of requirement for a company like microsoft.

not true in the slightest

[woeful geyser]

they dont throw away money like THAT

[solar sun]

you cant think in the terms of money they think in, not something you can grasp, so i understand why you think that way

[noble kestrel]

You seem to be projecting a lot

[past yoke]

oh but you do understand it, ofc

[solar sun]

look at actions, dont look at words. Simplify it, remove addons, new xbox comes out, can play wow on it (doesnt require a port), probably part of game pass and wouldnt surprise me if they raise the price of game pass again. Sure, all pure speculation at this point, but I know where my money is.

[hazy halo]

saying you can play wow on the new xbox would be great marketing for the new xbox so not sure why they would not just say so

[past yoke]

or they just lost the raid design space vs dmb, decided to remove addons, and realized you cant play modern wow with them so they simplified spcs

[solar sun]

yea, who knows. "Plans change" is often used excuse

[noble kestrel]

"I made it up!" is also used a lot by people who just make stuff up

[solar sun]

i didnt make up the actions though did I ?

[noble kestrel]

Yes you did

[solar sun]

those are objectively real, right?

lol ok

[noble kestrel]

Your speculation isn't objectively real, no

[solar sun]

they didnt simplify it, they didnt remove addons, theres no new xbox, all in my head

gotcha

[woeful geyser]

tbf, they added their own DBM/bigwigs to the game

its the opposite in that case really, they dont see DBM/bigwigs as problematic, they agreed how important it is and make it part of the game itself (even if the current version, like all the "replacemens" is really bad and needs work done)

[noble kestrel]

They did reduce complexity but WoW is still a complex game with a lot of moving parts. They didn't remove addons - they limited them pretty heavily in combat and that's it. Addons still exist, so that point is outright moot. There's no new xbox, no, because it isn't an xbox it's just a microsoft PC in a box.

Like it was explictly part of thier marketing that it isn't an xbox console.

[past yoke]

they def saw combat weakauras as problematic tho

[woeful geyser]

the WA thing is a bit more complicated tbh

like, we can argure for days if WAs where the problem, or blizzards fight design

and which caused which

[past yoke]

all i know is i dont want another fractilus fight

[noble kestrel]

I think we should all blame Ovi'nax.

[past yoke]

or ovinax

[noble kestrel]

I will never recover from pug leading Ovi'nax.

[past yoke]

you pug leaded m ovinax?

[noble kestrel]

god no I'm not that stupid

and / or brave + cool

Heroic Ovi'nax was an experience in pugs.

[past yoke]

lmfao

[noble kestrel]

Randomly assigned mechanics requiring people to react and move to specific spots quickly in a pug setting where half the people aren't paying attention.

Multiple times people'd just run to the wrong side of the room.

[past yoke]

i remember pugging the 1st 4 mythic and no one even daring to try ovinax

[noble kestrel]

I meant to pug the first 4 but never got around to it. I did the first, though, and have a comedy log from it.

[past yoke]

the 1st 4 were a joke to pug

i like it when you can pug a respectful amount of m bosses

[noble kestrel]

I'm more of a fan of how Manaforge is for it, but ye being able to pug a good amount is great.

[past yoke]

i havent pug manaforge

run out of time to play early october

happily, i have time to play in marhc

[noble kestrel]

First boss was harder than the third, so if you killed Plexus in a pug you'd almost certainly kill the third boss (and then get vault loot from the second, too)

[past yoke]

you didnt kill the 2nd?

[noble kestrel]

Nah, Loom was a lot harder, esp for pugs.

You could pick between 2nd / 3rd after beating the first.

[past yoke]

ah i see

soulbinder was 3rd right?

[noble kestrel]

Ye

[past yoke]

i can see how it was easier to pug than loom then

[tough swallow]

claycraft

[novel cipher]

"how are the textures?" "yes."

[tough swallow]

I initially thought it was a graphics bug for me, but my gf had it too so its likely a game bug

[tall bronze]

is CC showing on the new blizz nameplates for anyone? and any way to get combo points on it

[fervent ibex]

The bigdebuffs setting should show cc iirc, for combo points I think you need an addon. Like BetterBlizzPlates/platynator or something

[pine mauve]

how does rogue utility feel in m+ these days

[faint bough]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-gif-2405038352056726836

[ember nest]

you do damage

maybe die less than usual

do with that what you can

[ripe meteor]

Has anyone noticed a delay in combo generation on sub?

[glossy flicker]

its a bug with sensei

[ripe meteor]

Thank you

[cursive belfry]

guys, is it a bug ? we can now transmog dagger to swords ?

[noble kestrel]

Nope, it's by design.

[cursive belfry]

that's...really great

[terse torrent]

you can fist people in any spec now 🙂

[raw hill]

u must be a real master at fisting huh

[terse torrent]

https://giphy.com/gifs/masterpiecepbs-miss-scarlet-and-the-duke-missscarletpbs-axL10JOErPJFYyXpBt

[steep dock]

🤜

[native talon]

Hey, hey! I'm completely new to Rogue besides of Classic and TBC. I found a Lockbox today that needs 85 Lock picking, I can't open it. Found out online that I do not need to skill Lock picking anymore. Does someone have a clue why I can't open it?

[analog acorn]

You do mean in retail right?

[native talon]

Yep, sorry! Should have stated that.

Its an Umbral Tin Lockbox

[analog acorn]

What level are you?

[native talon]

80

[analog acorn]

Can you check if there is a lockpicking button in your general tab

Otherwise i'm not to sure. because you dont level it anymore in retail

[native talon]

There id none, but the skill is in my Rogue tab

General doesn't have it.

[analog acorn]

Yeah and that doenst open it?

[umbral parcel]

It's the midnight lockbox, can't open until you level up

[analog acorn]

Oh well that would make sense

[native talon]

Nah, I just see it says till 80. Box needs 85. Perhaps that's something I should not have right now, cause its a Midnight one?

Well, you were faster @umbral parcel

I'll throw it in the bank then. Thanks guys!

[rigid osprey]

Hi, is this server special for classic/tbc or also retail

[analog acorn]

This server is a retail server

if you need the classic/tbc one there is a other server for that

[rigid osprey]

could u link me the server? 🙂

[analog acorn]

Give me a second

[analog acorn]

https://discord.gg/dqMJCnwb

[rigid osprey]

ty very much!

[analog acorn]

np

[broken kraken]

So how do each of the specs play? I don't have to worry about transmog now with the Midnight pre-patch, daggers can be not-daggers and all that. I'm more curious about the actual playstyle of the three specs, since I haven't Rogue'd since uh. Like. Cataclysm?

[upper veldt]

!guides

[ionic forum]

Rogue Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/classes#rogue
Icy Veins: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides

[broken kraken]

Well I could have gone and looked at the icyveins and wowhead stuff at any time. I was kind of hoping for more interactive discussion than just reading one or two people's top-end guides.

[woeful geyser]

assa = Dot Maintenance and then spam envenom, slower playstyle with downtimes, most dmg in 2min cd windows

sub = very strong burst windows with higher speed, 0 dmg outside of them and very slow outside of them, very strong 90sec burst

outlaw = high apm 24/7 spamming, no Burst by design and instead consistent dmg, constantly pressing buttons with no downtime

[broken kraken]

That's a bit of a shame. I was leaning towards Outlaw because of the swashbuckler vibe, but I really don't feel like having to constantly be mashing buttons all over the keyboard.

Might give Assassination a shot. Sounds more like what I was wanting from Outlaw.

[brazen relic]

How come some have 60 more agi than me even though we got the same gear?

[analog acorn]

Every piece the same? what about crafted?

[brazen relic]

I mean

most of it ye

I must be missing something obv

[analog acorn]

I mean, just check all the pieces.

[brazen relic]

but cant find it

[analog acorn]

Or send me the link of both

i can check for you

[brazen relic]

armory?

[analog acorn]

No. the warcraftlogs link of your screenshot

[brazen relic]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JdkCRbygTF6aHfXV?fight=last&type=summary&source=1

thats mine

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wP8nNRv7C2JMLG4j?fight=37&type=summary&source=1

[analog acorn]

i even have higher agi

😄

[analog acorn]

Can't look at this because its private

Send armory link

[brazen relic]

changed to public

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/tarren-mill/Mvw

[analog acorn]

Yeah items are all the same.

Give me one more thing to check

Yeah i can't find out why he has 660 agi maybe its bugged?

because if you look at mine

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N1DmQBVTXtq94dvz?fight=18&type=summary&source=37

i have 712

But i have double trinket with agi on it

39 + 36 agi

Sorry i can't find out why im more

or why hes more

[brazen relic]

some funky buiss goin on

thats for sure

[analog acorn]

I'm thinking of maybe buffs but i dont think there is a buff in the raid comp that gives you more mainstat

Beside int

[brazen relic]

hmm ye. The 2 trinks u got with agi on still doesnt add up, which makes less sense

Like If i switched to those aswell

I still wouldnt reach 712 agi

If the math is mathing

[stable bison]

the stat page does weird snapshots on stats

so it isnt always accurate

[analog acorn]

yeah thats what i thought also

[left belfry]

damn did the blazing wings challenge and the toy is missing smh

maybe a juicy blizz ticket will send me my wings

[grizzled jackal]

has anyone made a stealth tracker so i dont need to stare at my char to know im in stealth

[formal falcon]

Guys what do you do when you wanna play all the rogue specs ? Or even 2. Do you play them all on 1 character or are you creating 1 character for each of them ?

[terse torrent]

I always play the class, not the spec. I'll play whatever's meta, but I always try to keep all specs somewhat up to date

[mellow pilot]

Both options are practiced: I used to have 2 rogues and yet only played assa on both, some players enjoy having multiple rogues and trying each spec on each of the alts. In the end it doesn't matter

[hearty fog]

if you were an ultimate sweatlord you would probably make 2 rogue so you could have one that was MH dagger (sub/assi) and another thats MH mace (outlaw)

anything else is kinda overkill

[mellow pilot]

Having more alts = more work

[hearty fog]

and even having the 2 chars is overkill tbh

because you gotta also get all the gear

[formal falcon]

Okay alright. Thank you !

[long horizon]

Is there any good party/raid frame addon right now ? Was using Cell until pre-patch, tried Danders but it seemed very buggy and unstable or should i just wait for the Cell update in Midnight ?

[tough swallow]

grid 2 is the go-to

danders is very buggy

[long horizon]

Ok cool i'll look into Grid thanks 🙂

[trail stream]

!sheet

[ionic forum]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[formal fulcrum]

I’ve tried more than 1 rogue, but it’s way more of a pain to fully gear a second rogue than it is to just swap a main hand weapon and maybe a couple items for secondary stats on a fully geared rogue. Especially once you’re max ilvl

[formal falcon]

yeah agree. But it's also kinda boring to have a lot of gear in your inventory for all spec, I mean it is not that complicated cause we can made a loadout for each but the fact that you need to be aware of each item you have and update every single gear you drop with the loadout...

a bit childlish from me but yeah ahah

[quaint trail]

anyone using Platynator knows how to fix these kind of nameplates? they're super small unless targeted and happens also with some fixate in boss fights

[oak tartan]

They are the minor ones, haven't found a fix yet

[quaint trail]

oh okkay, thanks

[long ice]

you can choose which Style of nameplates minor enemies have

and I'm assuming they're set to scale like that when targeted which is a setting you can adjust

[quaint trail]

ok i'll try that, any chance you know also how to remove the weird glow which appears targeting players/npc?

[long ice]

that should be a widget you can edit/remove

under the Designer tab iirc

[quaint trail]

mh i only see the enemy nameplate, it seems like it does add stuff to that

actually nvm i got what you meant thanks

[main orbit]

anyone got a dragonriding addon?

[plush dune]

There is a setting called simplified nameplates, anything listed there will get those tiny plates

So can remove minors/minions from there and it'll stop being small

[quaint trail]

oh i see and there you can even resize them a bit which is what i wanted to do, thanks a lot

[frozen kernel]

Ppl shit on shadowlands all the time I think everyone will be grateful sl happened after midnight flop

[haughty kelp]

midnight bout to be peak bro

[gentle frigate]

forgot how much I hate sub

[novel cipher]

I think you underestimate my ability to shit on things

that being said. at least shadowlands had an NPC you could bring your friends to unwittingly and get them killed by

[strange jetty]

this time i will buy an expac and stick with it

surely

[elfin crag]

What is there to hate about sub?

[strange jetty]

too many thing to run?

sub is too hard for me

[iron wharf]

I am reading/testing all class on beta. Is rogue one of those class that did not get any of the dr/defensive spells removed? or I missed something

[fringe umbra]

Correct, however sub and outlaw prioritizes vers less, so thats a bit of a nerf defensively

But we also got "danger sense" in the class tree, which while not an impressive passive, is not nothing

[faint bough]

Give it a chance it's one of the easiest melees these days

[zealous halo]

outlaw got basically everything removed

cdr on evasion/feint, 5% stam, 5% dr on ps, vanish on cdr + every 20s with healing from vanish, vers stacking

[iron wharf]

ok so basically just flat feint/cloak now?

[strange jetty]

weird to hear it from outlaw

how outlaw these days?

only thing i love about outlaw is that i dont need mastery or mastery is just wayyy lower in the stat prior

[mellow pilot]

what does that even mean xD

you just stack whatever is better

[brisk vector]

mastery haters

[fringe pecan]

im a returning rogue player what spec is pumpin in PVE right now?

[faint bough]

It's prepatch so just try em out

[fringe pecan]

trueee

[quaint swallow]

Sorry if I'm out of the loop but is it no longer possible to display combo points above enemy nameplates with default UI?

[raw hill]

i love danger sense, probably has saved me a good few times without me knowing

[honest pebble]

it boils down to about 4% damage reduction so it's ok but not insane

[glad harness]

gets the equivalent to a better pala aura "its ok"

[unreal gulch]

People are never satisfied

They even used that one phial in df that gave like 3% Dr for some things

[faint river]

Honestly best thing is that with all the defensive nerfs (rip mage) us not losing much and gaining some passive tankiness bodes well, we should relatively be noticeably tankier in midnight if they match dmg intake to nerfed defensives for others

[honest pebble]

I mean considering what Outlaw lost, which was the topic leading up to this, 4% dr is not amazing

if it was 4% dr on top of all that? sure, great

plus it even isnt real 4% dr, it will average to 4% over the fight numerically but it isn't guaranteed to even proc on big hits

[glad harness]

If its 4% as baseline average with possibility to highroll its great, the only downside is not being able to plan it.

[vocal cairn]

What rogue spec is the best spec to 1 button rotation with the new update

[faint river]

Sin

It barely loses dps on one button

[raw hill]

is it CT?

[vocal cairn]

I presume that is the same for st and aoe?

[broken pebble]

Hi very noob question. What anytime ability to use on sub? I forgot it and i cant remember what I used as anytime before.

[long wing]

sub

[prisma sphinx]

I am shocked! SHOCKED! I cant find a gif of the blood elf rogue doing happy dance from the Housing video

[faint river]

if you press kb,dm and vanish 1 button is v close to sim

[mellow pilot]

I've no idea what you just asked so I'll say shadowstrike backstab shadowdance

[faint river]

I think he's asking what the filler is

aka ability you can use any time

[mellow pilot]

Backstab then I'd say

[pure coyote]

does anyone know what is the fastest way to level rn 1-80 is it timewalkings or?

[faint river]

pay for a boost

[mellow pilot]

Always timewalking

If available

[faint river]

depending on how fast you want it blizz / boosting communities

blizz boosts are imo giga expensive, much more cost effective to at least buy a token or just pay with gold you have

[prisma sphinx]

timewalking -> bashing out quests

got that winds buff atm

[pure coyote]

i mean i have the 80 boost from midnight just not sure what to use it on

[faint river]

you have midnight beta?

you can test classes with gear / capped to help you decide

[pure coyote]

i dont'

[faint river]

hmph, in that case I'd say just boost whatever you want to try / play first

levelling atm is super fast with all the xp bonuses

same for buying a boost for gold, since it's quick it will be cheaper too

unless the iran situation has affected level boosting too

[mellow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/what-what-the-what-the-hell-wtf-gif-8562994133044611418

[faint river]

you have no idea how the tragedy that's unfolding in iran atm has affected boosting prices

suddenly we're making like 2-4x as much doing the same stuff bc the supply of boosters has dried up due to internet outage across the country / more pressing matters than gaming for em

(yes, a ton of iranians boost as a job)

[prisma sphinx]

I made a tiny gif of the happy dance if anyone wants

also wtf is that topic

[mellow pilot]

I've no idea

[prisma sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/hide-secret-escape-scared-dying-gif-4513776

back to the transmog and housing channels

[faint river]

I'm not trying to politicise anything, litterally just saying maybe boosts for gold might be expensive for levelling too if it's mirrored raid boosting, sry if it came across differently

[mellow pilot]

I'm unaware of boosting prices, and I've never paid for one, that's why I said timewalking. But you're all good my man dw

[faint river]

ah, well let's just say irl shit affected it quite a bit - wierd to think but yeah

[tough swallow]

!up

[ionic forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1463210920976056351/dark.jpg

[raw hill]

interesting

[raw hill]

fuu do u have 1 for the midnight gear levels btw?

[tough swallow]

i do, but its unfinished

like this, should be right, even thi i haven't found much information about the crafted upgrades

[raw hill]

wew cool

[tough swallow]

this, i don't know if correct at all

and raid is weirdly split so will need to find a visual to represent bosses well there

[static epoch]

what are your bets on crest costs getting fixed to being more in line with current ones, but only after significant public outcry during S1?

[tough swallow]

i don't rly know

i asked but nobody pointed me to exact numbers

so i just wait for more information to be there

[static epoch]

huh

[tough swallow]

lile

*like

i don't think cratfed will be 60 for max crafted

when the regular upgrade system will change

you have a total of 150 crsts from 1-6

having crafting go to 5 for less than half seems uncreasonable

[static epoch]

yeah

but people say it's 100 crests/week, and 150 to upgrade to full, so it's like twice as slow as it currently is
not sure why, even, since turbo boost is like two/three months into the season, before you can max out all your gear anyway

[novel cipher]

Almost 100%

I don't know why they decided to we need to include some friction here to the system. All they had to do was get rid of flight / valor stones

When the wow community sees world first raid streams talking about how it's a waste to go past 3/ or 4/6 no one's gonna do it anyway

(prediction based on feel craft)

[tough swallow]

one thing to not forget is how much more turbo boost costs

if it follows the same formula

[tough swallow]

they did

but in oder to keep the same player engagement, it was vital to make the aquisition/upgrade process longer baseline

[novel cipher]

right, but they also swapped in scaling crest costs

[tough swallow]

blizz knows exactly whats best for you, and they will tailor the game towards these goals

[novel cipher]

I doubt engagement will change a whole lot because people with excess before still will but you're going to get used to seeing people with 3/ and 4/6 gear is all I'm saying

[honest pebble]

I don't really understand why can't they just go back to Valor. They were close in Shadowlands but then backpedaled again

[tough swallow]

valor was one currency for all upgrades, right?

[honest pebble]

yes

[tough swallow]

the split makes sense

[novel cipher]

with increased cost on stones for certain slots like weapons yes

[tough swallow]

see in mobile game development, it was found that people spend more time playing if you have multiple currency systems

it adds a nice layer of obfuscation to the game, and gives you as a game creator the oppotuinity to reward diffrent currency for diffrent content types

so a player who would before only play one part of the game, suddenly engages in others

[static epoch]

if it follows the same formula it's bound to get super stupid because it'll cost 60+70, like almost the same 1-6 costs

[tough swallow]

haha ye

[novel cipher]

using that line of logic if pvp is ever required again in this game I'm either going to go without or just drop the sub

[tough swallow]

they can't make pvp required

because pvp is fundermentally a diffrent game

[novel cipher]

looks directly at BFA

[tough swallow]

it wasn't required in bfa

it just had rly good weapons

[novel cipher]

it had the best secondary neck power

[tough swallow]

so you could initially get a small boost doing so

[novel cipher]

death and strife? I think it was called

[tough swallow]

tho pvp now has the item level scaling stuff

so its unlikely

[novel cipher]

https://www.wowhead.com/azerite-essence/conflict-and-strife-32 this one

[tough swallow]

ah ye, i remember

https://www.wowhead.com/news/some-big-characters-wont-make-it-through-the-worldsoul-saga-interview-with-pc-380150?utm_source=discord-webhook

kill chromie, do it!

[cold grove]

there is 1 obvious one

that will most likely die

[honest pebble]

lorethemar is dying 100% imo

which sucks cuz he is my favourite

but he is too much in a spotlight now to not get nuked, I dont like it

[tough swallow]

you mean, a old guy in a wheelchair?

[iron belfry]

at this point they can kill everybody and i wouldnt care too much

[cold grove]

nah i'd bet on sylvanas dying

since she is on that redemption arc

of saving

[novel cipher]

No that's actually just been xalatath the whole time

Khadgar is already dead kinda like squall at the end of disc 1 in ff8

[harsh yew]

Final expansion the horde and alliance are gone, we play for team Sylv or team Xally to see which dead elf is better

[vital dawn]

Hey guys. Just dinged 80, whats fastest way to get gear? Ppl say the catch up is quick, is that tha questline that takes you through TWW lore in dalaran and that`?

Or is something else better

[strange jetty]

*cough hot dead elf

[jaunty bramble]

Hello I am new and maybe rerolling to rogue for midnight.
Whats at the current point in time looking like the main go to spec for the raid encounters / m+?

[fiery coyote]

with any luck the best spec should be the one you are best at playing

[jaunty bramble]

and without any luck 😄

[fiery coyote]

worst case one spec is obviously overtuned or undertuned but i don't think that's the case so far

[jaunty bramble]

Hmm okay, I am coming from Warrior and so far it is just Fury is ahead of arms in cleave and ST by a lot

So I was wondering if such a decrepancy is also present for rogue

[fiery coyote]

i dont think so

tuning should be close and then the specs do different things

like outlaw has good sustain damage but it's not a burst cooldown spec

so it will have strengths and weaknesses in certain encounters

[raw hill]

sub rogue is peak in midnight with the apex talents

the rotation isnt too difficult now too

[strange jetty]

how outlaw?

[mellow pilot]

Good

[left belfry]

what class do you think epstein played

[mellow pilot]

Even whispyr enjoyed outlaw

[strange jetty]

predator

[strange jetty]

dont need stealth and restealth right?

[mellow pilot]

No idea, ask in #outlaw

[fallow hawk]

audio assist or dbm better?

[glad harness]

Depends on what you prefer, doesnt it

[fallow hawk]

my point is is the audio assist comparable to dbm

[rich meadow]

https://x.com/jaythebard/status/2018699380233019851?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

Jaythebard (@Jaythebard)

How Warriors be looking at Loot in TBC

X · Feb 3, 2026, 2:53 PM

[rotund patrol]

transmog

[fast topaz]

Outside of just numbers/damage, what will rogues be capable of bringing to content like keys/raid in Midnight? Is there anywhere that this disparity is being discussed?

What does rogue have that makes them stand out in comparison to a dh, dk, paladin, or warrior. I'm all for playing what you want, but I really don't want to feel like I'm sandbagging push keys, because I don't have any of the utility that the above melees bring.

I've loved sub rogue for years, enjoyed sin for some time, and have enjoyed outlaw some as well.

We don't bring lust. We don't bring a raid buff(atrophic?). We don't bring aoe cc (anymore). The list of what we don't have compared to other classes goes on and on at this point.

Maybe I'm missing where other classes were gutted on the utility/group-impact side, but it seems incredibly unbalanced when compared to rogue right now (for a while honestly).

--

I tried pugging m+ as sub rogue late into S3 TWW and while I did get far, it feels like the odds are just entirely against rogues.

One of the lowest player counts, no group utility that really does that much compared to other classes, and a massive rework to sub rogue that makes it basically feel braindead to play.

Is there anyone that can feasibly explain why and how a rogue is supposed to attain their spot in their role as dps and do as much as or more than another melee dps in WoW?

[plush dune]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ultrasad

[fringe umbra]

Rogues biggest strength is not dying

[fast topaz]

Just looking for some hope or copium ngl. Appreciate honest responses and feedback to this. I'm just feeling like I'm at a complete loss on deciding to play rogue.

[fringe umbra]

And for the most part the strongest specs are almost always the ones that do the most damage

The utility is secondary

But yes rogue does not bring that much to the table

[fast topaz]

You say that, but it's been shown over and over that classes like dk and dh are much preferred in higher keys, for valid reason. DKs are one of the most survivable melee specs as well, while bringing grips, raise dead, incredible damage, and amz.

[fringe umbra]

Ive heard theres some decent shrouds on the beta, but im sure theyll add truesight to prevent those from being a thing once its released as per usual

[fast topaz]

That's my issue too. We have shroud, but only for the most rudimentary or simple skips that aren't even necessary or as impactful as a meld skip.

[fringe umbra]

Besides one of the last seasons with aug the highest dps specs have been meta'

[plush dune]

dk is never meta just because its tanky and has grip, its meta because it tends to do a fuck ton of damage

[rotund patrol]

rogues will be stun bots in midnight

[plush dune]

the other stuff is just icing

[fringe umbra]

But you can assign a target to a rogue and the rogue can keep that mob from casting for a very long time

DKs can also do that tbf, but no other class

[ember nest]

cheapshot enjoyers

[fast topaz]

In 5-man content, comps matter more than anything. The spot you're taking requires you to bring a kit that makes that spot comparable to other classes.

The amount of time rogues are passed up for a dk, with comparable numbers in the damage department, just for utility was highly obvious this last season.

Also, there's a return cost involved in being a "stun-bot". How much damage are you doing? Realistically, this DR change on stuns allows us to not waste a gcd on stunning a last-second cast that would kill someone. You'd never perma stun a mob unless necessary.

I'm honestly talking mroe on the upper side of keys/content here. This won't matter at all for 16s and below.

[plush dune]

i mean everyone agrees rogue utility is kinda garbo

we just pray one of the specs does enough damage to make up for it

[fast topaz]

Yea, I get that.

[fringe umbra]

Well rogue didnt really have comparable numbers in the damage department

[fast topaz]

I'm just trying to cope with that fact that rogue is always gonna be the lesser melee in 5-man content. Thanks for the feedback.

[plush dune]

i would like us to get the treatment warrior did this beta cycle and have our utility looked at

maybe in tlt

[fast topaz]

Rogue did have comparable numbers. You could definitely do as much as or more than a dk in TWW S3.

[fringe umbra]

Logs disagree

[fast topaz]

There's several data-points to address, including class-player representation as well the caliber of player doing these higher keys.

If you look across logs at a 20, sub rogue is similar, if not close enough, to what a dk brings in numbers. There are outliers like ara, but DH was a monster in that dungeon as well.

Sub was definitely capable of putting out great numbers for higher keys.

--

Logs and damage/throughput wasn't my main point for posting, so not gonna continue talking about this.

If rogue doens't have numbers, what is it going to have. That was my point. Thanks for the feedback.

[fringe umbra]

Hunters dont bring anything either, yet they were meta this season

Also tell your llm to format it better so theres not 20 linebreaks in each message thats longer than one sentance

[ember nest]

if enough damage is done everything goes well

that you mind control enough people

[fast topaz]

Kinda insane how you're respond with a shit take on hunters not bringing anything, then accuse me of using an LLM. It's called spacing to make the message more digestible.

Separating the points of the message into one message so I'm not spamming a channel even. Imagine that lol.

Done here, you made it obvious there's nothing beneficial to talking about this.

[fringe umbra]

How is it a shit take, hunter provides almost nothing to their groups

Just as rogue does

[hearty fog]

he's gone jim

but also hunter is ranged

and brings lust

and arguably binding

[buoyant ermine]

rogue have cool mogs

[hearty fog]

trueeee

but what about hunter helms

[fringe umbra]

There was almost no comp this season that was without lust anyway

[hearty fog]

yeah but the point is that a hunter still brings something other than damage

[fringe umbra]

So does rogue

[hearty fog]

stunbot on a single mob?

[unreal coyote]

I think rogues utility suite is just not good for m+

[fringe umbra]

And numbing/atrophic

And shroud

[unreal coyote]

Every shroud is now just a meld skip

[hearty fog]

yeah but nobody brings a rogue for numbing/atro, same as no one brings a paladin for devo aura

[fringe umbra]

Just like nobody brings a hunter for binding

[hearty fog]

i've seen NEED LUST

ive never seen NEED DR AURAS

[fringe umbra]

My point isnt that rogue utility is amazing

My point is that damage is what matters

Hunters did damage

Thus hunter = meta

[unreal coyote]

Are there really any classes you’d take for their not damage

[ember nest]

same with dks with how cool grip and other shit is

they do the damages

[glad harness]

The express in-n-out llm posts we love that

[hybrid pagoda]

are there classes that people bring for anything other than damage?

[raw hill]

damn thats sad i thought rogue was always like pretty good since the start

[novel cipher]

We bring coolness to the party

[raw hill]

lmfao is rogue actually considered ass tho, i swear im always like 2nd in dps in m+ behind a DH

and thats like m10 too

[novel cipher]

I've never played rogue to chase the meta and you shouldn't either. People blow things way out of proportion

[raw hill]

fair enough lol i always play it for fun too and i like how sub plays but still lol

[novel cipher]

Like sure, I come here and cry bloody fucking murder when they do changes I don't like (and especially when they just let the class sit and rot like feral) but rogue is going to be fine

If anyone tells you otherwise or that you're throwing for playing a rogue tell them to go back to watching their professional wow content creator tier list video and to mind their own business

I mean unless it's a whispyr doom video

[raw hill]

LOL

[raw hill]

thats great advice ngl, cuz as long as im having fun and doing decent dps id say im pretty accomplished

[ember nest]

or the june situations

enter and exit two way street

[glad harness]

Wowhead baited me with their article title

[ember nest]

i need to make more 1h doomer hits

[fringe umbra]

Tbf that is their buisiness model

[raw hill]

what was the title again?

[raw hill]

what was the title again?

[glad harness]

"Class tuning for all"

[plush dune]

[raw hill]

lmfao damn

[novel cipher]

[sour patrol]

Is there a portal right to the basecamp in Twilight Highlands?

[novel cipher]

not that I'm aware of, just the cata portals in org/sw

[thorny widget]

i think its worth noting that druid, which provides brez + damage buff, has been meta for every season in the last two expansions

and that shaman has been extremely good in tww largely because of getting skyfury

[fringe umbra]

Yeah im not saying it doesnt matter

Especially since damage buffs lead to higher damage contributed

[thorny widget]

i was just about to say damage buffs arent really utility yeah

but their classes are tuned as if they are

[severe furnace]

it would be nice if they made atro a budget motw

and it made the monster take a little extra

[thorny widget]

idk im kinda passed it its pretty obvious blizzard doesnt care about making rogues viable in m+

[severe furnace]

hehe

[thorny widget]

after tww it was so obvious how useless rogue is

and they didnt really do anything

[fringe umbra]

Removing blind

[severe furnace]

so sad

[fringe umbra]

Hopefully they just forget to remove the functionality

[thorny widget]

like they just arent even serious about balancing the game

druid has damage buff + brez + insane stops + dispells + off healing + a lot of things i cant even remember

[fringe umbra]

Druid didnt really lose anyhting going into midnight right

[thorny widget]

no idea but they are still one of the two classes with a (lust/brez) and a damage buff

so gg

[raw hill]

wait what no fucking way

[thorny widget]

i guess hunter is in that group now sorta but not really

[fringe umbra]

Well it being aoe

[raw hill]

bruh no wonder it wasnt hitting multiple people when i played yesterday

[fringe umbra]

They dont have an aoe stop either

And their ST stops are way worse than ours

[fringe umbra]

It still does if you spec into airborne irritant

But it shouldnt

[thorny widget]

they took away binding?

[fringe umbra]

Well no, but they took away the trap

[thorny widget]

bursting as well?

[fringe umbra]

MM only i think

[thorny widget]

having classes that cannot stop is interesting if they can do other things

[fringe umbra]

nah nvm its gone

[thorny widget]

interesting

[fringe umbra]

They have a talent that makes intimidation hit "nearby enemies" for a 1 sec stun

But its only 4 targets

[strange jetty]

nice aoe stun

for a range

[plush dune]

time to play dracthyr hunter so they can still binding+knockback

how many classes actually have an aoe kncokback now

[severe furnace]

surely we get atro as like 3.6% dr 1.6% increased dmg taken or something

just a little crumb

well on all the other non lethal poisons also

and not stacking bc dragon temper

[thorny widget]

idk

hope they just take shroud out of the game

so they can stop pretending its utility

[severe furnace]

ok perhaps

or stop giving monsters the blue eyeball

[thorny widget]

no grouch you dont understand

6 years ago when the developers at blizzard still had a hairline

rogue was really good in m+

so now it is garbo for eternity

[severe furnace]

oh ok i didnt know

[thorny widget]

to atone for that sin

[severe furnace]

[raw hill]

depressing

[thorny widget]

i mean you just play another class

[ember nest]

i mean many times rogue was mid but people still played it because it was still kinda relaxed doing M+ with not super optimized groups

but now people can play fomo really easily

[fringe umbra]

Maybe we have a season where the main limiting factor is surviving and we can be good

[thorny widget]

they kinda nuked sub into oblivion with midnight so if something else is good i wont feel bad about rerolling

[raw hill]

nah nah watch apex talents carrysurelyy

[ember nest]

rogue is still fine damagewise but others are just better

[ember nest]

fenrir as outlaw good times

meanwhile assa

oh i got my face eaten

[severe furnace]

TRUE

i love being alive

[thorny widget]

maybe, some classes kinda dodged defensive pruning though like dk

which was the main offender

[fringe umbra]

I mean they still tanked like 10% stam

[thorny widget]

so now its just 10% extra?

[fringe umbra]

[faint bough]

I read this message and the previous one fast and thought you said "oh I got my ass eaten"

[raw hill]

watching teamates die as i become the only dps left alive to kill a boss still on 10% hp left

[thorny widget]

doing beta keys though most of the healers are really bad

so its nice to be the only dps alive for a little bit

and then you realize sub is still fairly tanky

although, hopefully they fix cloak man idk what is going on with that

you take magic damage in cloak constantly

[severe furnace]

whats wrong w it

oh

grim

[raw hill]

cloak is bugged too??

[thorny widget]

i mean cloak is resistance, not immunity after the 1st sec

so maybe its intended

but yes cloak doesnt work on a lot of things in certain dungeons

like the last boss in magisters terrace

you hit cloak and still take ticking damage

or the mobs before then, you hti cloak and the heal absorb stays

[fringe umbra]

Obviously it has a bunch of problems, but if youre looking at the "death" statistic on wcl sub is dying the least out of any spec. Now obviously its prepatch and raid is different than m+

[thorny widget]

or the paladin boss, you cant cloak the heal absorb, nor can you claok the big hammer ( i think )

[plush dune]

sub gamers are just better

[fringe umbra]

But its an indication that sub is indeed very tanky, other specs lost their defensives and we got a new passive one

But yeah we lost some vers

[thorny widget]

more dance casts than before right? so we should have higher uptime on our passive dr

[fringe umbra]

More casts yeah but roughly the same uptime

[raw hill]

the new passive one was that 20% chance for 20% reduced damage right? , i forgot the name

[fringe umbra]

Yes

[strange jetty]

male pattern baldness can hit u at any time

[thorny widget]

not me

im keeping mine forever

[pearl basin]

why are they buffing rogue azerite powers? BFA was a while ago brzu

[novel cipher]

Nice diminishing return fuel :^)

[severe furnace]

if we send them to turkey rogue will get good m+ utility

[hybrid pagoda]

asking as a newbie: damage is the top thing when pugging? utility is second (or not that important?)

[novel cipher]

Usually. The problem with pugging is all of the random biases you have to overcome

Sometimes you'll see the odd group that wants a mage for time warp and int buff, but more often than not people tend to be either ilvl chasers for what they expect to be "safest" option or inviting mostly based on the meta

Who knows, maybe rogue will be meta again. Probably not, but hey, getting declined a bunch is generally just part of the experience.

[urban gulch]

so, Rash mythic, the pull is still yanking everyone off and im unsure why tbh. we all stand in it

[severe furnace]

perception is most important

if all the tier lists say the best comp is unholy mage aug or something (just random comp as an example) and then theres a class tuning patch and some rogue spec gets a 10% aura buff and its stronger than unholy the average pug guy might not know that right away

or even for a few weeks to a month

and theyll invite the dk bc they believe its better

and all the tier lists they look at say so

ofc if u get higher up then people will be more on top of whats actually good

but perceptions #1

[small basin]

Does anyone else think that the Midnight "Campaign" leather armor looks better than the actual rogue tier set?

[heady musk]

Rogue tier armor plus the prey weapons they’re adding look so sick together

[faint smelt]

Haven't played since dragonflight and just wanted to ask which specs are looking good coming into midnight?

[hearty fog]

the spec you find most fun

[severe furnace]

sub is the best on beta rn most likely but that will 100% chance before the expac goes live

maybe not 100 but its likely

[marble basin]

Deserved for sub

😎

[tough swallow]

^ https://x.com/WidmerrTheRogue/status/2018779328998465675?s=20

Blaine (@WidmerrTheRogue)

Priorities I guess 🫩

X · Feb 3, 2026, 8:11 PM

[noble kestrel]

Blank Morass is my fav joke right now.

[raw hill]

what the hell

are yall getting the epic edition for wow midnight btw

[noble kestrel]

Already have

[raw hill]

lmao i kinda feel like doing it just for the 3 days early access

[noble kestrel]

It has 30 days of game time in it too, which is nice.

I wish they would drop the 3 day early access though, it's just an annoying thing but c'est la vie

(Or do like FF14 and pre-ordering any version of the game gives you it)

[raw hill]

why is it annoying?

[tough swallow]

i typically wouldn't but my gf wants to play early access leveling

[noble kestrel]

Predatory design, splitting the player base, etc. It's just not good in the general sense.

[somber idol]

Bought early access last time, not doing it again

[tough swallow]

its a hot take

[noble kestrel]

But also it's very whatever

[tough swallow]

but midnight feels like a patch rather than a new xpac

tww already felt like that, but midnight even more than that

[somber idol]

They anti hyped the expac

[raw hill]

levelling is just gonna be from normal dungeons right? from 80 to 90

[tough swallow]

my gf and i will level regular

i also did all dungeons on beta in m+ testing

so already know their layout, even tho i need to say

i am not sure i like the dungeon design

[raw hill]

oh damn thats truee

[raw hill]

whats levelling regular?

[tough swallow]

doing the quests/zones

rather than spamming dungeons

[noble kestrel]

The campaign!

[tough swallow]

yep

[raw hill]

ahh i see

[tough swallow]

i think tww had dungeon spam as the most efficient

but reaching max level is not a race

you have more or less 2 weeks to get there

[noble kestrel]

I hit cap in TWW at the start of the third zone.

[raw hill]

true, people with the 3 day early access might be ahead in ilevel n stuff wont they?

[tough swallow]

no

max level content is heavily limited

best is to think of early access as "leveling only" content

[raw hill]

lmao damn okay

[raw hill]

yea what could people possibly do in 3 days

[tough swallow]

the main advantage was usually speed and server lag

[raw hill]

i lowkey just wanna use it to learn the dungeons

[tough swallow]

early access is just a small fraction of all players

so the servers are more stable

and, at least in tww, exp gains ended up higher during early access, might be on accident tho

blizz adjusted some things with release, some bugfixex/patches

which made the process of leveling a bit slower

[tough swallow]

^ especially because of this

[raw hill]

thats pretty smart by them actually

[tough swallow]

it probably won't be the same this time

tho leveling for most part feels like a means to an end

there are players who read through all quest text, but the majority does not

[noble kestrel]

The best part of early access is gettign to play WoW more, sooner.

[raw hill]

imagine getting early access to rush lvl 90

i wonder if the servers will be able to handle the golive

[noble kestrel]

Ye, easily

Last few expansions have been very, very smooth launches.

The biggest issue DF had was the boat not working haha

[raw hill]

lol i dont even remember DF and TWW's golive ngl

[raw hill]

but hey thats great

cuz surely midnight brought in alot of new players

[noble kestrel]

Def seems like people are coming back / trying WoW out going by newcomer chat

[raw hill]

peak

i dont want wow to die

even tho it aint lookin good for them with the bugs n shit

[analog acorn]

I think bugs are just a part of the game nowadays, every class has them, i don't think people mind it to much (besides rogues) but if its very game breaking and they are aware of it they try to fix it.

[raw hill]

yea i suppose some bugs arent complained about until its actually cancerous

[analog acorn]

Also the bug gets fixed if there is a load voicing over it. i do genuinely think if 10k people would moan about a bug it would get fixed asap to 100 people complaining about a bug, they just work with a priority system.

[raw hill]

so what ur sayin is we should get as many people as we can from ravenholdt to go bitch about it to blizzard so they change it asap

instant fix within the week

[analog acorn]

That's the thing if you look at class representive rogue is the lowest, i do think thats why rogue does not get that much attention considering we have alot of bugs still

This is ofcourse just my own opinion. but when i played DK in the past and there were some bugs, they would get fixed pretty fast

[raw hill]

but i swear there r so many rogue players tho even tho its not as much as like mage players or dk players

they cant be just neglecting rogue like this

[analog acorn]

These are HC logs over the last tier

[noble kestrel]

WoW doesn't really have any critical bugs, which is what most people really care about (even the pre-patch launch, etc, was pretty smooth). It's just a lot of the smaller things that mount and mount up.

[analog acorn]

We are pretty underplayed.

[noble kestrel]

Can you check Normal, too?

[analog acorn]

ofc

[noble kestrel]

Arguably less useful 'cos of self-selection going on but since most people don't even raid heroic..

[analog acorn]

42k rogue parses in total over 3 specs

Fury has double of that

[noble kestrel]

Ye

I play on Argent Dawn, and I see a lot of Rogues but they're often RPers or more casual players.

[analog acorn]

Yeah. i dont know if they would do raids ofcourse.

[raw hill]

damn those bm hunters

[analog acorn]

These are keys done

All dungeons all level

[analog acorn]

Bm hunters had the same bug with there tier set that we had on assa. theirs got changed

ours didnt

[raw hill]

bruh

[analog acorn]

if that doens't speak volumes of people voicing there concerns against many people vs low people then i dont know what

[raw hill]

its a really good representation dw

[analog acorn]

Maybe its because i'm more involved in this community over at any other class but this tier was really buggy and in the past it was really buggy, but i noticed a lot of stuff and honestly if you dont pay attention like a casual player, they won't even see it. so i geuss that is fine for most people. but people that do like CE raiding or high keys they def notice it.

[woeful geyser]

aug on bottom

https://tenor.com/view/stay-down-trash-stay-down-trash-trash-people-this-is-for-the-horrible-people-who-try-to-get-in-your-way-gif-18013393478229888095

world is healing

[past yoke]

just wait until you see how strong they are in beta

[woeful geyser]

i cant

i was jumping and it gave me a DC

[past yoke]

LMFAO

jumping giving a dc is the ultimate fire mage nerf

[ripe meteor]

Man what’s with the nerfs

[faint bough]

https://tenor.com/view/homestuck-gif-23919519

[ripe meteor]

I fuck with the pretzels

[raw hill]

mm pretzels

[gleaming linden]

Hi, I did the housing quest where you need to collect random stuff lying around 80 Times last week and I no longer get housing exp. Is there like a seasonal cap? I thought it might be a weekly cap but I'm still not getting any exp after the reset

[tough swallow]

you only get exp up to 1000 (or well 2000 as they did reset the exp gain last week)

the exp gain also gets lower with each repitition

if you get 0 exp, you are capped for this endavor and need to wait for the next one

[gleaming linden]

Ahh so it's capped per endavor. Thank you fuu!

[vivid crescent]

so they don't like leather it seems, unless its a furry. hmmmm. the math is sorta mathing.

[unique mountain]

thinking about coming back. how is rogue "feeling" in general in the midnight pre-patch? is the shitty bloat gone?

[faint bough]

what bloat did you find shitty

[unique mountain]

I played assassin and I felt it was frustrating keeping up all these small buffs in order to play the game and do as much damage as other classes. It felt like an RSI speedrun. Granted, this might not be a popular opinion, but I hope rogue is less complex in general, with more clear burst windows

I would enjoy it if there was clearer builder spender patterns

[faint bough]

Well I can't speak to assa, but outlaw and sub are both very simple in terms of decision making these days. Outlaw will be faster paced but more flat damage pattern, where sub still has burst but very formulaic patterns for damage. Although assa was generally the most simple of the three specs so I don't know if that will be the same for you

[unique mountain]

Is outlaw still "rng based" ?

[faint bough]

Roll the Bones was simplified, but its rng-ness was inflated by people

[unique mountain]

thanks for the quick responses!

[frozen scarab]

anyone have a good clean platynator setup?

[novel cipher]

Did you try out setting it up?

It's a WYSIWYG editor so it's easy to personalize

[frozen scarab]

yeah i havent been able to make/find anything i like. something about it doesnt click for me

looking for inspo from what other people have settled on

[novel cipher]

I think what I did was take hare and delete like half of it and then set the crowding and typefaces and stuff

[long ice]

I used Jundies profile as a baseline and modified it for what how I like it

[fickle siren]

Does anyone have a good way to setup a reminder to reapply poisons? I've managed to get the CDM to do everything else I want but it's extremely painful forgetting poisons.

[frozen scarab]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/easyreminders

[fickle siren]

Thanks

[quasi hemlock]

hey random question, what's the best rogue spec to just kinda bum around the world doing world quests and stuff rn, used to be I'd use outlaw because of the chain BtE and resets on stealth but, not quite as good anymore. Not sure if either of the others is better

[novel cipher]

They're all fine

Subtlety doesn't do any cdr with finishers anymore so your abilities just come up like anyone else's

Assassination is just as good as it's always been

And since the past proves the future (/s) the first world quest with a weapon for rogues is gonna be an outlaw weapon because it always is

https://tenor.com/view/angry-man-smoked-brain-ears-smoked-very-angry-angie-tribeca-gif-20666148

[quasi hemlock]

LOL well I am not planning for midnight, just running around right now, weapons are basically all around 121 so that doesn't matter. I haven't really played rogue since I came back and I had quit since shadowlands, I just did outlaw because it's what I always played and found out how sick crackshot was to clear out mobs when you can reset and spam your hardest hitting ability.

right now it just feels limp in comparison in open world stuff

so kinda just depends on which one has more on demand burst when killing individual mobs

[novel cipher]

As a 160 something I pretty much 2 shot anything that isn't an elite as sub

Sub is still bursty in open world

[quasi hemlock]

I am much lower haha, but sub does sound like the right track since it still has a lot of ties to stealth

will give it a go

[hearty fog]

yeah sub is still probably best with how much you can burst things down

arguarbly its open world state is the best it's been in in the last 1-2 expansions since dance no longer needs to be reduced by spending CP

[little oracle]

Make sure you do the twilight event and get some weapons and free %dmg tier. Bop stuff in any spec after that

[quartz sentinel]

Pretty general question that I can't fins the answer, is there still jumper cable in midnight?

[wintry iris]

hello, does any of the specs feels nicer to play in Midnight? I'm thinking of trying out rogue and idk which one makes the most sense. My usual content is m+ and raid, I dont touch pvp

I know that tuning will happen and im not asking which is performing the best, but just which feels the smoothest to play if that makes sense

[mellow pilot]

As funny as it might seem, outlaw seems to be smooth

[wintry iris]

alrighty, noice! 🙂

thanks for sharing your opinion

[formal fossil]

The personal resource bar doesnt seem to be tracking combo points, are people using something for that? Just started playing again today

[bright otter]

BettercooldownManager

[somber idol]

It should, atleast it does for me

[calm mantle]

whats a good trinket tracking addon?

[terse torrent]

!ui

[ionic forum]

Rogue Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/classes#rogue
Icy Veins: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides

[robust flax]

Which niches (like funnel, execute, etc.) do the respective 3 rogue specs fill in midnight?

[cold grove]

we like being there

to be included

[hearty fog]

no

well i guess assassi has execute

thats about it

[iron belfry]

bench warmer niche, applying to groups for 3 hours niche, low target cleave outlaw, execute assa, funnel ( ) assa

[faint bough]

Wangbar

It's for the people

[ember nest]

we do something very well

we are

melee damage dealers

that do damage in melee

what else do we do? did i tell you we deal damage on melee range

[tough swallow]

the main diffrence is in damage patterns now

subtlety is burst heavy every 90-100 sec
assassiantion 120 sec
while outlaw has a more flat damage profile which means it does always good damage

a lot of niches and unique aspects got homoganized sadly

e.g. specs had diffrent amounts of mobility, now all 3 have the same one

subtlety had a lot of funnel, cdr, etc

midnight in general tries to make things simpler

so the idea is that these nuances can't exist (or not to the degree before)

[iron belfry]

so they "ruined" vanilla by homogenizing classes, now they "ruined" retail by doing it even more

[oak tartan]

Yes, now everything is bm hunter with another flavour

[static epoch]

wait how'd they ruin vanilla
vanilla is where it all started
(not that I don't think vanilla specs could use some better organization and concepts, but homogenization has to have a foundation to happen)

[iron belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/kripp-yap-gif-10345323525361690192

[candid badge]

https://tenor.com/view/wamawa-cat-yap-cat-gif-9758400392655978457

[ember nest]

well classes and specs used to have clear strenghts and weaknesses

now we have strenghts

but other things are also stronger

[static epoch]

that's like
been that way since about Cata at the very least, I'd say
WotLK if you really focus

Rogue's been a numbers class for 90% of this game's lifetime because things it was designed to do exceedinly well almost immediately ceased to mean much, or were nerfed to the point everyone can do them well

[honest pebble]

My biggest problem isn't even the overall simplification but that every class has the exact same builder/spender system, with some classes juggling even tertiary resource. It just all feels exactly the same now, just with a shade of yellow (pala), purple (priest) or whatever else

The simplification just made this stand out way more than before, I wish we had more variety

for example some specs could be purely CD based (cooldown on most spells but these spells hit very hard) instead of just requiring you to build 80 of X reource and then spend

but of course this clashes with WoW's "always be casting" system

[iron belfry]

even if they aknowledge this as a problem, it will take them too long to fix it

[rare solar]

So like old sublety without the base rogue gameplay but like 2 more abilities on a weird cooldown

Something with uhhh ~7s cd and another one with uhhhhh 18s

[honest pebble]

just take Lost Ark as example. You have spender/builder classes. You have fast spammy classes. Then you have burst classes with long cooldowns but every ability pack oomph with it.

[rare solar]

No energy, no combo points, no basic builder spender backstab/evis

[elfin crag]

The Golden Age 🥰

[honest pebble]

not sure how it would work with WoW game flow, but currently it's just one same system copied onto 12 different flavours

[elfin crag]

Its the price to pay for balance.

[rare solar]

I mean whenever there are outliers people complain about them

[honest pebble]

balance can be achieved without same playstyle

other games have done it

[rare solar]

Not here in a class discord obv

[elfin crag]

Classic did too… Balance can exist outside of purely DPS meters. But in retail wow, DPS meter is what everyone cares about.

[severe flower]

It would be awesome to have a rogue spec that has "combo" like ability flows, maybe with some flows culminating with positional strikes such as swiping left/right so you would have to rotate your character correctly. Or having an ability to stab behind you, so you would first have to "flip" behind an enemy before using it etc. Somewhat like FFXIV and it's combos/positionals (Viper class as an example)

[rare solar]

How else would you define balance if not every class being similarly desirable

[summer sparrow]

loaded question, is rogue a good option for a main in midnight?

RL wants me to becasue we have no rogues anymore, but i havent mained one in ages

[elfin crag]

Ease of access is the most obvious example. Ret pally and BM hunter have historically been highly popular specs, even during seasons where they’ve been Mid at best.

[severe flower]

I think the game also devolved into all classes feeling samey because everyone wants high APM spammy playstyle for every spec. No one wants to take a breath and have strong impactful hits. What separates an Arms warrior from Fury in it's current iteration? Downtime equals potential to have higher hitting abilities

[elfin crag]

Going into midnight, ease of access is obviously a focus for blizzard, but its only a matter of time before “complexity” sneaks back into some specs.

[elfin crag]

Eh, not necessarily. If that were true, Outlaw and fury would be a top played spec

[severe flower]

But all specs are like that right now. Assa gets 1 sec energy pooling window and people go crazy. Enha doesn't spam an ability every gcd and doomposts start showing up

[elfin crag]

Yeah, i get what you’re saying and it definitely plays a role. But i think simplicity and performance are still king. See Frost DK after the rework as an example.

Performance balancing is what truly shoehorns everything into the same gameplay loop but with different animations. So many specs now have 45s to 1.5m CDs I lost count.

[severe flower]

I'm not saying this is what matters to players, I was just giving an example why every class started feeling samey after a while

Doesn't have to be that way, this is just Blizz taking the easy way out

[elfin crag]

Fair assessment

[rare solar]

What other cooldown timings do you want? 1min 45? So it never lines up with trinkets or the damage amps?

[elfin crag]

Thats not my job to figure out.

Im also not complaining

[severe flower]

If not everything lined up, nothing would have to line up.

[elfin crag]

Just stating the obvious

[severe flower]

If you're an outlier in the current state of things, you are doomed to fail

[mellow pilot]

Such an amazing job, love viper

[elfin crag]

Like it or not, Outlaw was probably the only spec last season that actually had some identity in its play style.

[mellow pilot]

If you say that in #outlaw you'll be bullied

[elfin crag]

Dont care lol I enjoyed it

Although somewhat annoying at times

[rare solar]

How many specs did you play last season

[inland gale]

69

[elfin crag]

About 6 or 7

[faint bough]

I mean I think it's true that outlaw was one of the few specs that broke from the 1.5/2min cd template and had a very different feel to it since the crackshot implementation, sure last season we were tuned abysmally but I don't think that's a hot take

[mellow pilot]

Glancing at outlaw here and there, the usual doomers would dissect the guy

That's the joke

Nothing is ever good

[faint bough]

Numbers are never good, true

Killing spree also never good

Vibes, incredible

[analog acorn]

You have a problem with me?

[little oracle]

/nick yeah

Aw man

[analog acorn]

Unlucky

[little oracle]

Yeah

[faint bough]

yeah

[analog acorn]

yeah

[summer sparrow]

Make killing sprees damage amazing, but bring it back to the original design of dropping you into a death zone 50% of the time

Fatebound hero class fantasy

[woeful geyser]

flip a coin if you die or stay alive

[summer sparrow]

no cooldown if target is below 20% hp

so you can killing spree a boss until one of you dies

[noble kestrel]

What happens if i dropped the coin

[analog acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/drop-the-soap-drop-soap-soap-drop-dont-drop-the-soap-gif-22961728

[noble kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-nielsen-what-wtf-confused-look-confused-gif-283082192766325851

[bright wraith]

does anyone know when the next dranor timewalking will be? is there one again before midnight?

[upper veldt]

can always check the calendar

[gentle frigate]

Know what I was thinking today,

Why does wow seem to suffer from players with super bad nostalgia compared to other games?

[noble kestrel]

Is there any other game that's been so impactful and also around for 20 years?

I guess Runescape

[steep dock]

people,story,gear and age

bosses

[woeful geyser]

elder scrolls i gues

and fallout

[noble kestrel]

Not a singular game though

[woeful geyser]

which both have the same kind of shity community stuff going on

[plush geyser]

I was gonna say path but thats only like 13-14 years

too young

[fringe umbra]

I saw so much people complaining online about the fallout show, and it turns out the show is really good but a few details are different than the games and thats the vast majority of the complaints

[noble kestrel]

Another important aspect: what age / responbilities did the nostalgic people have at the peak of their nostalgia

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, the show rules

[plush geyser]

Walton goggins as the ghoul is such a peak choice they made

love that casting

[noble kestrel]

I love Walton Goggins

[steep dock]

walton,good lad

[fringe umbra]

I havent played any of the games as im not that much into FPS games, so im just vibing watching the show

[noble kestrel]

"No, I haven't sat down to play the games," Goggins said. "And I won't. I won't. I won't play the games. I'm not interested.```

He's great, lmao

[plush geyser]

hes an amazing actor

love that dude

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, he is. He's fantastic in every role he's been in. One of those people I just love watching act

[plush geyser]

even his VA work is amazing

but yeah, hes just a great dude to watch go to work

[tough swallow]

feels like every 2nd game or book adoption has this critique point.

[woeful geyser]

gotta love how people complain that the deathclaws in the show dont immediatly charge at people

and like

well yeha ofc lol, thats a gameplay mechanic and a show does stuff for dramatic sequences instead

[plush geyser]

In fallout is it not like a thing to stop you from going out of bounds

i always assumed thats what it was

[rustic tartan]

He's amazing in justified too. Great series.

[remote parrot]

how are we looking with recent changes? Is it grim?

im talking about m+

any room for us in meta