wow-general

[mellow pilot]

For me its Ctrl-V

[winged pendant]

ok prob a noob question but how do I go about gearing for both sub and assa, do I sim everything on both and make 2 separate armor sets? I have 2 max level rogues as well so do I just gear one sub and one assa?

[mellow pilot]

Assa barely wants any stat in specific

so you can build sub and just sim rings/necks/trinkets to play assa

[winged pendant]

thanks yea so prob have to switch some enchants and gems up then

[mellow pilot]

nah

Assa likes stats

sub likes stats but doesnt really like haste

[winged pendant]

Im simmed for assa currently so id sim them for sub

[mellow pilot]

Correct then!

[hearty fog]

https://wago.io/M13VlqtM-/7

[timber lintel]

tips for beating shadow captain lakheesh?

[hearty fog]

reduce his hp to 0 before he reduces yours to 0

[manic sedge]

This worked tyvm

[sharp nest]

do you guys follow the lore of the game? I read all short stories related to war within, played the campaign, now doing the lorewalking thing. Are there any "must experience" quest chains that weren't in the campaign? Or some recommendations?

[warm eagle]

which folders i have to save to keep my addons and settings when i want to reinstall wow D: ?

[chilly minnow]

How should i read parses from Warcraftlogs? Is it overall score? Damage etc?

[glad harness]

WTF/Interface folders

[warm eagle]

thank you

[mellow pilot]

Imo it's one of the "you had to be there" moments. You can do chrome time and experience most of each expansion, but I don't feel it is the same.
You can also check nobbel89 on YouTube for lore

[brave storm]

which spec does OBR works well with due to carpal tunnel syndrome but want to play remix solo

[mellow pilot]

Any spec

You'll be soloing and one shotting mythic bosses anyway

[brave storm]

what if low apm wise

[mellow pilot]

Doesn't matter

If you're playing obr

Obr makes any spec slow

[tough swallow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCwwt0_mFBU

kinda cool weakaura setup

[neon glen]

nice

[manic sedge]

just delete the Data folder instead of uninstalling

[warm eagle]

its to late but i will remember it the next time x) thank you :D

[brave storm]

sad news midnight be removing WA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrD7I5c08Zk

[zealous halo]

[manic sedge]

also worth doing it if you've gone a long time without reinstalling the game as it makes load times faster

[warm eagle]

i got screen freezes all the time i was think to fix it with it but it doesnt help

[manic sedge]

try swapping from dx12 to 11

[mellow pilot]

That's already old news and we've had info on how they think they can work to make a better game too, using wow own interface without a need for wa and addons

[warm eagle]

i will try it

[tough swallow]

they could, but there is no official statement that they do

everything is based on speculations based on one interview

and the fact that the baseline game gets addons similar to popular options

the main assumption from the information given is that they want to slowly fade out certain functionality

the problem or conflict is, a lot of the functionality is what makes boss mods or addons work

there is another problem too

then more you restrict the baseline api, then higher the possibility of 3rd party tooling

final fantasy online is a good example and it is impossible for square to control

Which means, keeping addons intact is a net positive for blizz to decide on the extend you can use information

but it is a fascinating topic

[neon glen]

they will definitely restrict (not remove) certain addons. I don't think third party tooling would be used broadly enough to become an issue unless they over-restrict

[oak tartan]

Removing wa would break every mythic raider and people would rather quit than building their whole ui again with the blizz default

[tough swallow]

which is the core of the problem

[warm pagoda]

Dunno, after 4 back to back frac wipes because of somebody not sorting out their WA I wanted to quit

[tough swallow]

many accessability or cosmetic addons also rely on the same functions weakauras use

[oak tartan]

Yeah, now play frac without a wa

[tough swallow]

but you can't have one without the other

[tough swallow]

thats less of a problem, because gameplay design can adjust to "no weakauras"

[dark robin]

called lua language

xD

[neon glen]

they did explicitly mention that they don't want to restrict accessibility. Whether they will manage that it's another topic

[tough swallow]

Lua is the scripting languarge in use, but what i talk about is what is exposed via functions (the api)

[dark robin]

yea but you use wow api using lua

so still

in custom code blocks to make great wa's

[tough swallow]

blizz has the ability to set functions private conditional, we had that happen in DF on certain bosses

[grave root]

This is so Easy If your raid roster averages at least around 50iq

[warm pagoda]

Could be fun if the fight was tweaked. Its not fun playing a boss where its just , 'go to this marker, now go back'

[tough swallow]

e.g. if you remember smolderon, it is why you had to use a macro instead of the weakaura automatically doing it for you

[warm pagoda]

Follow the WA like a robot

[tough swallow]

the idea seems to be

to restict more and more functionality during combat

but this also means many things break

something as simple as a custom ui addon suddenly would not work anymore

[oak tartan]

Did some hc pug yesterday and it was a mess with like 50/50, without the turbo dmg from overgeared guys it would have been a nightmare

[tough swallow]

because e.g. you have the option to track buffs/debuffs anymore or certain state of your target/yourself

[dark robin]

lame

[tough swallow]

so even if they only want to get rid of plater + weakauras

which are the two problem childs

they can't without having massive collateral damage

[neon glen]

I would wait until we have actual info

because people are blowing things out of proportion right now since it's not fully public/decided what they are touching

[tough swallow]

exactly

which was my initial point

[glad harness]

Arguments like "now do boss that is designed knowing weakauras exist without weakauras" are very questionable

[dark robin]

but thats so true nowadays

[glad harness]

Are you high

[dark robin]

ppl stopped playing

they are bots

c'mon

[neon glen]

there is a lot of dooming (and some content creators are partly to blame here)

[zealous halo]

Idk about that, if the default ui is ok enough I wouldn't mind much I'm ngl

[tough swallow]

its funny to think back at end of WoD, where there was this massive radar thing everyone assumed to be mandatory to kill the last boss. Yet one of the first kills did not have that weakauras/addon.

tho i think there is a certain trueth in problems with addons

because addons can give you way more information and "play the game for you" kinda

which means not using addons is often a big dissadvantage

[dark robin]

i personally okay with addons that just "shows" you some info

like buffs debuffs

but not click buttons for you

and making mechanics

[tough swallow]

like a good example is one of the legion dungeons, it has this hat game

[glad harness]

Addons that "click buttons for you" are explicitly against tos

[tough swallow]

there is a weakaura that marks you the target, so you don't need to think

[dark robin]

i mean even like "press this right now"

not actually instead of you

[warm pagoda]

Yup, WA removal mostly concerns me because I like having my buff/debuff/cooldown bar thing , but I'm hoping the cooldown manager becomes functional enough to fill that.

[tough swallow]

so while its probably not "hard" to follow the flow and pick out the correct target, this additional information is a huge advantage

[dark robin]

true

[dark robin]

the problem is - all addons use same api like fuu said

and if they do restrict it

it will affect all addons

at some point

[tough swallow]

for what its worth, i don't mean addons automating gameplay.
We have the one button rotation for that now, for the best or worse ^^

it depends on what they restrict

and if they offer alternaive api's

[dark robin]

yea but still

[warm pagoda]

Yeah but, maybe the blizz cooldown manager thing fills that void

[neon glen]

which is fine. WAs can only do whatever other addons can do, it's just a framework

[warm pagoda]

They're making additions to the cooldown manager thing that look promising

[dark robin]

they actually done a good job over years since first pandaria etc

[tough swallow]

weakauras is a plague ^^

[dark robin]

UI looks better

[tough swallow]

its good because it allows so much freedom and creativity

[dark robin]

so i wouldnt be surprised

[tough swallow]

but its horrible for performance, and over-used

[dark robin]

if you have good pc do you even care?

[glad harness]

Because the game should be accessible to people with worse setups too

[dark robin]

then dont play with wa

xD

[glad harness]

[dark robin]

its not built-in addon

it up to you

[tough swallow]

i made this meme a few days ago

[glad harness]

"The game isnt playable without weakauras"

but also

"Just dont play with it lmao"

[dark robin]

who said

[zealous halo]

You know one of the thing I dislike the most about weak aura, is that no matter how well made it is, it's still rendered worse than any in-game UI element

[tough swallow]

thats a solvable problem

[glad harness]

Thats the origin sentiment that started this entire discussion

[dark robin]

got it

[neon glen]

you mean base UI element or non-WA addon?

[tough swallow]

but the meme i mentioned is true for all parts of wow, including management and technical stuff

Tho who should we blame?

[zealous halo]

Any addon or weak aura has the same issue

The rendering is always worse than in game UI element

[dark robin]

its basically assets in low quality

i guess

[zealous halo]

I think legit the only dev that managed to have a perfect rendering like the wow UI is plumber

[tough swallow]

Is it on weakaura authors for creating weakauras?
Is it on the author of weakauras for creating a somewhat inefficient framework?
Is it on people who stopped using/developing addons?
Is it on blizz because there is no technical reason for the performance problem?

[zealous halo]

No

[neon glen]

are you talking about pixel perfect positioning?

[zealous halo]

You always have pixel issues

And shit

Text rendering is worse

The way it moves on the screen is worse

Etc

Plater is a good example

Rendering of plates is litteraly garbage

[neon glen]

because pixel perfect positioning affects base UI as well

[zealous halo]

Base ui never have the issues I see with add-ons

[warm pagoda]

Yeah but the plumber devs are wizards.

[tough swallow]

nameplate kai iirc did focus on pixel perfect representation

*KUI

[warm pagoda]

I can't not use plumber now. Its so nice

[tough swallow]

not kai

kai is good for performance ^^

[glad harness]

[warm pagoda]

It makes some really nice UI tweaks that I'm used to now

[neon glen]

yes because things are generally bulkier so it's harder to see. Base UI uses the same "canvas" of 768 virtual vertical pixels

[noble kestrel]

A lot of the Plumber stuff should become native. Their little display panel on the rep stuff is so nice

[warm pagoda]

Yup. So much better than the default one

[tough swallow]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/plumber

i actually use a weakaura to see loot ^^

[noble kestrel]

There's a lot of excellent QoL UX in there

[warm pagoda]

Also, rep, crests, currencies AND vault in one screen.

So good.

[noble kestrel]

Ye

[tough swallow]

i always found it weird

that there was no loot list feature or sth

chats seem to be such a inefficient option

[noble kestrel]

Just have a big chatbox like me

[rare solar]

this whole window shows me most of what i need to know tbh:
rep
current vault status
all my upgrade shit
cata charges
random expansion currency

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, it's extremely well put together

[rare solar]

the activities list is also really good

that one should be base UI as well

[zealous halo]

Nah, you always have weird gaps in pixel and weird things idk, like why are border pixel disappearing if I'm on a half pixel, I should have 2 adjacent pixels but with a different tint no?

[warm pagoda]

Yeah, nice to see things at a glance

[zealous halo]

That shouldn't be possible

[rare solar]

only way to track if i did a delver's bounty this week apart from running to a delve and checking

or using a chat command

[warm pagoda]

Also, delve vault history

[tough swallow]

e.g. this is the weakaura i use for loot

[warm pagoda]

Which is seemingly absent from the base UI

[iron belfry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvHO7vv6h1U
i beg to differ

[tough swallow]

it just fades in and out after a short time

[tough swallow]

i posted that earlier ^^ (which was the start of the discussion)

[dark robin]

thats insane xd

[rare solar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgxCspRR52s&ab_channel=Moistman

all u need for frost DK

[noble kestrel]

Nothing will top the greatest UX someone built for WoW though

[iron belfry]

didnt see lol. i just saw them on kush stream yesterday

[dark robin]

fdk was like that from the beginning

[noble kestrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJQmwx4iqbk

[tough swallow]

people have some rly cool ui's

some are not that pratcical tho

[warm pagoda]

That man has 64gigs of ram and by god is he going to use every last megabyte of it.

[noble kestrel]

Practical is the enemy of COOL

[tough swallow]

oh wait

the one i posted was iirc from a hunter

[dark robin]

this addon just brainkiller imho

[tough swallow]

but its the same thing ^^

over the top aniamtions

[iron belfry]

imagine needing wa for frost dk

[tough swallow]

very shiny, a lot of audio allerts etc

[noble kestrel]

You can tell if their CD's are available because the dinosaur and ape's butts appear at the edge of the screen

Which is such a funny touch

[rare solar]

i need one wdym

just this tho

[iron belfry]

i guess its culture difference as well

[rare solar]

this is the one true UI btw
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/wow95

[warm pagoda]

It's beautiful

[tough swallow]

its just personal preference

[neon glen]

I mean that also originates from the same canvas problem since the UI just isn't rendered on your true resolution. Partial pixels are just impossible to work with even when you adjust UI scale. They also do some sharpening magic nowadays to make it more bearable (e.g., https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/API_TextureBase_SetTexelSnappingBias and https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/API_TextureBase_SetSnapToPixelGrid), which is why you might see things which don't necessarily make sense

[iron belfry]

and for some reason has less fps even though reduced graphics

[zealous halo]

meh idk

i think its just skill issue

[neon glen]

it's 20+ year old game issue

[zealous halo]

There are things that never happen no matter how small something is in default ui

That happen with add-ons

Skill issue

Won't convince me otherwise

[neon glen]

[iron belfry]

they will add the combat helper feature with filtering of spells in 11.2.5

[tough swallow]

A lot of games excluse font rendering from ui scale options

[iron belfry]

i hope that can be enough so i can gtfo some addons

[loud bloom]

How u guys decide which boss which specc to play?🤔 (in mythic) if u can play all 3 good terms

[glad harness]

You pick the spec whos damageprofile fits the boss better

[static epoch]

wait that's Plumber? I thought that was a native Blizz thingy and was really impressed by it

like that's an excellent summary window for basically everything I want to see aside from profession weeklies

[rare solar]

Wdym the native blizzard implementation is to hide it in 4 different windows

[static epoch]

tbh the moment I noticed that window change coincided with 11.2 release, so I figured maybe Blizz were doing something right with the UI

but, duh, shows what I know.

[zealous halo]

everytime there is a good UI its plumber

[static epoch]

tbh I only installed plumber because it fixes the "autoloot bugging out" problem
but it's really good yea

[warm pagoda]

Knowledge points being shown in the profession window? Also plumber

[zealous halo]

this one i didnt know was plumber aswell

[static epoch]

y'know, I never noticed that

[zealous halo]

and that one

[mellow pilot]

Iirc plumber was initially created for DF S3 emerald dream, for the seeds around the map

[zealous halo]

idk plu,ber is just crazy

[zealous halo]

ye

[mellow pilot]

What a glow up

[zealous halo]

plumber was the only way you had to not get cancer interacting with the seed system omegalul

[oak tartan]

The one big advantage wa has over the standard stuff is that you can choose fonts and text size how ever you like

Also that you can have remaining stacks and cd at the same time

Not just some darker overlay that moves around the icon

[manic sedge]

man I did that natty

[rare solar]

I did as well until i saw some post about plumber

[oak jetty]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask; Has anyone gotten their wow character drawn? I'm looking for an artist to commission and was hoping someone might have a rec here! 🙂

[mellow pilot]

30 minutes scrolling thru Twitter will probably get you a few

[oak jetty]

I did a preliminary search but so many of those are bots; I've asked Twitter for emote artist recs before and just get swarmed with bots - was just hoping someone had a personal rec 🙂

[mellow pilot]

I personally don't know anyone but my gf, and she only does it for fun when she wants to (which means she's also not a candidate).
We also ban every art spammer so the chances of finding one here will be hard.

[oak jetty]

Was just asking if anyone had gotten their character drawn and liked their artist/had a rec - no worries if there's little/no response. Wasn't thinking I'd find the actual artist hanging out here; just looking to see if any other rogues had gotten their character commissioned! 🙂

[spark raptor]

What style are you looking for
I have some really great artist friends who do commissions
I can dm you their bluesky profiles so you can see if any of their styles suit your fancy

[warm eagle]

doesnt help :<

[tiny forge]

how do I sim crafted gear that I havent made ye? trying to find which slot I should craft for

[heady widget]

are mythic lockouts still group restrictive? like would i still be able to fill in for my guild on m soul hunters if i pug first 2 bosses on m?

[woeful geyser]

no, you cant do that

[heady widget]

so bizzare to have such a restriction

unless i'm overlooking something

[woeful geyser]

you are not supposed to Pug mythic because mythic is normaly not puggable anyway

[heady widget]

i guess so but first 2 bosses are very easy to pug atm

[woeful geyser]

why do you want to do first 2 in a pug anyway

like, you are on soulhunters, you reclear lol

[heady widget]

vault slot and myth gear

im retired, they are missing raiders so they asked to fill

[warm pagoda]

Had a prot warrior keep dying in a 10, checked details, I FOUND THE ISSUE.

6%

Okay somebody logged it apparently.

[neon glen]

block is a crutch

[warm pagoda]

He cast it twice

The entire dungeon

The rest of the uptime was shield charge

[neon glen]

offence is the best defence

[oak jetty]

I'd love that, thank you!!! Style is kind of open right now; it's kind of a meme - I swapped to Tauren because I made a bet with the devil and hit a milestone during our subathon that made me a cow till AOTC (s) of midnight; and another was to get the toon commissioned and framed lol. So just looking for options!

[cerulean finch]

Hi guys, could someone tell me if Ebon might stacks ? (if multiple evokers)

[stable bison]

up to 2 yes

[cerulean finch]

ok thx !

and how does it stacks ? it just adds up ?

[amber sparrow]

[safe estuary]

felt like i just got kidnapped in a m+ key, was advertised as "+10 quick vault", and we pulled 2 mobs at a time for 30 minutes, reset boss twice on accident, tank exploded 3 times randomly, and yet no abandon vote because tank and company had key lol

[hearty fog]

yeah call me toxic but im just going afk and watching youtube or something if that happens

[safe estuary]

like i get people are new but it's just straight up going 30mph on the freeway, takes like 15s to look up a route lol

[brisk sapphire]

Is there catch up for raid rep btw

Or do I gotta do weeklies

[safe estuary]

kill bosses on all difficulties (LFR, normal, heroic)

if you're still not caught up then that stinks lol

but doing all difficulties every week should outpace the rate at which rep is timegated

so you should catch up at some point

[brisk sapphire]

Painge

Ok

Cheers

If I do it on multiple characters I should get more right

[safe estuary]

correct

that is the easiest way if you have multiple characters

[hearty fog]

tbh even the needing to look up route thing is overrated

[safe estuary]

and then roll on trinkets and sell them for gold the scumbag way

[hearty fog]

just hold w and pull shit

[safe estuary]

it was HOA and we spent 19 minutes in the first courtyard...

[hearty fog]

[mild wasp]

its about 5 bosses per rep level

so just do lfr on a couple healer guys or whatever

[teal pike]

can anyone that is good with sims help me

[brisk sapphire]

Ain’t no way

I’ve been killing way more than that per week

On 2 characters

[meager totem]

noob

you can only catchup 1 level per week

because full clear is almost exactly 2 levels, difficulty and alts dont matter its all 1 time

just dont afk on trash because theres like 4 of them that give 250 rep

1 after plexus, 1 before forgeweaver, 1 before fract, 1 before nexus king

maybe I forgot a 5th one

[somber idol]

Nah looking at route is the best thing to do

Doing a dungeon without route is the most painful thing

I mean below 10 smth whatever

[brisk sapphire]

Tyty

[zealous halo]

Noob

[surreal void]

just curious, does spell power even do anything anymore? or just another forgotten trinket

dropped from coren for my rogue

[coarse turtle]

Hey, ive finished lvling my rogue to lvl 80 as an alt, what is considered better right now in PvE? Assa or Sub?

[mellow pilot]

Won't matter. Play whatever you find cool

[coarse turtle]

Thanks, I find assa more fun so ill stick to that ❤️

[mellow pilot]

Based choice.
I'm not biased at all.

[coarse turtle]

yeaa... I see... xdd

[mellow pilot]

(honest answer spec does not matter besides one doing a bit better than the other in mythic raid in certain bosses)

[surreal void]

but how will i be top dps in my eco dome +4 if im not the proper spec

😂

[mellow pilot]

Idk, you tell me

[rare solar]

Youll have to play well

[coarse turtle]

Well I would say the point of the game is to acquire the best gear possible and have the best possible performance in regards to your role (dps/heal/tank), you can achieve that more easily with playing the spec that performs the best at the moment, that is why I asked

[mellow pilot]

Unless you're raiding mythic to achieve a good world rank or trying to get top 1% m+ title...

[faint bough]

yeah but a better player could take the most dumpster tier spec and outplay 99.99% of players on god tier specs so i think it matters more to git gud and its easier to git gud on a spec you like soooo play what you like

[grim python]

yo, so i play rogue , usually i just get 1.8k pvp rating, get heroic raid done and do 10s so i can get 2,5k achiev and call it gg season.
Now i have decided that i want to get 3k rating, sitting at 2650 now , played few season of assa , decided to play sub as I did that few seasons ago.

Long story short, apparently I suck at dps and my dps will limit my chances of timing some of the more challening 12 or 13s. So this leads me to my question - which is literally the most braindead spec , I tried reading up on sub , yeah, feels like working a 2nd job, like I just want to come home , smash keyboard and do some dmg.

Goal is not to get 99% parses, but lets say comfortable 90%

[neon glen]

[tough swallow]

smash keyboard sounds a lot like outlaw

there are weakauras that handle the reroll logic for you

[mild wasp]

just play assa

manage a few dots in aoe turn your brain off entirely in st

[night ginkgo]

Play assa and enjoy the bugs

[tough swallow]

any of the 3 specs will give you a lot of bugs

assasisation bugs are actually fairly mild in a m+ setting

compared to subtelty ones

[night ginkgo]

Blizz might as well just fully re-work rogue its so fun

[tough swallow]

bugs are just part of the game

every class and spec has them

what differs is just how loud people are about them

or how much time is spend searching

[celest hawk]

outlaw is learning a couple of rules then reacting to procs, not much planning and no turbo aids cooldown alignment shit, that's why i like it

[tough swallow]

don't let guy hear that^^

[celest hawk]

im just a shitter so im sure there's some element of that when you're giga optimising, but compared to sub

[tough swallow]

^ everyone thinks of balance differently, as you see from this.
I personally would come to different conclusions^^

but this highlights something important, you usually need to test specs to see what fits your playstyle best

[celest hawk]

yeah i mean there's like different types of difficulty that people will respond to different, i really don't like memorizing set openers/rotations and aligning cooldowns and i find responding to procs both fun and quite easy, but some people are much better at just drilling a mostly fixed rotation into their head

[night ginkgo]

Swapping to another spec after playing one of the others as well is such a nightmare. Ive played ass since cata and trying to play sub is like eating day old shreddies

[tough swallow]

you can have both if you play subtlety ^^

subtlety has the problem of requireing a lot more initial time investment to get knowlage

assassiantion especially in raid is smooth sailing, its within one of the easiest rogue in general has ever been

i think the problem with switching specs is a dynamic problem

there was no reason to play anything else than assassiantion for the entire xpac, so individuals never felt like learning something else

this is a old problem on rogue, we e.g. had the same situation in Legion + Bfa where assassiantion was for 2 xpacs with one tier in between exception the absolutely best spec

[woeful geyser]

[tough swallow]

How many subtlety rogues did you see in M+ in s1 or s2?

[woeful geyser]

oh is it about m+ only

[tough swallow]

the initial question was for what spec to play in m+

[woeful geyser]

yeha fair then

tbh

S1 assa kinda sucked in m+

[tough swallow]

^ in the same fashion, outlaw was the "only" m+ spec for all of bfa

(kinda, s1 was a mess, but s2+)

[tough swallow]

yet it was the dominant spec if we look at the statistic

season 2 was more split between outlaw and assasisantion

both seasons had subtlety almost non existent

[woeful geyser]

you know how much fucks i give about m+?

[tough swallow]

fair^^

for raid, subtlety was rly good for early progression all xpac

if we take the entire duration of the raid, it was not good at all

outside of this season, where the op trinkets and good tier sets manage to keep subtlety played

[night ginkgo]

Just give ass its double dipping back and we good 😉

https://tenor.com/view/fun-detected-fun-radar-meme-gif-7470200116453381411

But blizz hates fun so :3

[tough swallow]

everyone wants to be op

just saying

[night ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-anakin-skywalker-its-not-fair-unfair-anakin-gif-16742272

[woeful geyser]

and thats why sub players gaslight about subs raid performance for 20 expansions now

[tough swallow]

wdym?

like if you look at legion or bfa

[night ginkgo]

yeah then they got Nimble flurry that does all the dmg

[tough swallow]

its very hard to argue against what i am saying

[woeful geyser]

"if you look at a 10year old expansion" is not a argument fuu, lets be real

[tough swallow]

i am not sure i follow your point

[woeful geyser]

thats like saying "if you look at WotLK......" for stuff during legion lol

[tough swallow]

i mean the wow playerbase consists of 90% ancient players

but i am still not sure what point you try to make

e.g. looking at S2 TWW

[novel cipher]

I was one of the few, the proud 😄

[tough swallow]

subtlety was initially played

then assassiantion got a big buff

then other specs got big buffs

and sutblety ended up literally worse dps in game, even beaten by aug

so outside of the first month of progression, you would not touch subtlety at all

and if you look at how people define balance in many discussions

it often comes down to what spec is good on last 2 fights

going by that:
mugzee --- assassiantion was technically better because of execute, so it wasn't a subtlety fight
gally --- was tuned so bad, it would not make a diffrence

[mild wasp]

huh? fatebound is lining up gs and vanish on every vanish and trickster has to move everything to fit ks/coup, you absolutely are lining up cds constantly xdd

moreso than the other specs rn

[tough swallow]

this covers the points people bring up in discussions around the topic,
i don't rly see where subtlety is gaslightling anyone about raid performance going from that

[undone latch]

Would anyone happen to have a horde character on Proudmoore that can craft cloth wrists?

[cobalt torrent]

its actually insane how much it fell off

[ember nest]

it will happen again

as add pad goes down

but this time we wont be the worst likely

[tawdry pollen]

nothing can be worse than outlaw on dimensius

[meager totem]

outlaw on tindral?

[tawdry pollen]

hes right

[fringe umbra]

Man if only there was no dragonflying then outlaw would be good in raid!

Gosh darn it

[final skiff]

Will Yellow man get buff tomorrow?

[hidden compass]

Gosh darn it

[final skiff]

sub's M6 performance is about 20% lower than top hunter, and about 10% less than average. do need to much just around 8% on ST in good enough .

[thin viper]

looked on m+ stats this season. Not a lot of ppl playing rogue rn 🫠

[hearty fog]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[formal fulcrum]

Rogues garbage if damage isn’t top tier

Least useful class to bring except for the survivability of outlaw and sub

[placid shore]

Huh, DK? 😄

[formal fulcrum]

DK toolkit is fantastic for m+ is that a joke lol

[placid shore]

So DK has this toolkit for years. And is now meta cause of the DMG.
No one cryied for Grips, AMS, AMZ befor

[formal fulcrum]

Sure still better than aoe blind and kidney shot

Not dying is best thing about them

Plenty of melee close in damage rn btw. DK brings good stuff to high keys

[placid shore]

Just take a look in DF , SL. No one cared for the DK.
Its like Warlock. IF DMG isnt overtuned. no one cares for them. 😄

and with out a Raidbuff we are in the same position

[formal fulcrum]

Agree to disagree

[placid shore]

Statistics dont lie

[formal fulcrum]

Statistics like that are handicapped

Respectfully

[placid shore]

There will alwaays be some OTPs

[formal fulcrum]

Idk what you’re on about

[placid shore]

but sadly the mass goes with the meta 😄

[formal fulcrum]

Are you complaining about dk right now or

[placid shore]

i compare DK to this

[formal fulcrum]

Maybe

They still bring lots to the table

[placid shore]

Grip and AMZ. what else?

Everyone can BR .

[hearty fog]

yeah but not everyone can BR from range

thats like saying everyone can drums

[formal fulcrum]

Grip, amz, not needing heals

Like I said idk what you’re on about

[hearty fog]

i mean DKs just got giga buffed

[formal fulcrum]

qq

[hearty fog]

at the start of this expac

and remained tuned strong

[placid shore]

yeah it was long time needed.

[formal fulcrum]

Ok

[placid shore]

but if they nerf the dmg. DK will sadly fall back to no one cares about. :/

[formal fulcrum]

DK isn’t overtuned damage right now

Just higher end

But yeah they probs won’t be meta

They still are valuable

[hearty fog]

did DKs also have an aoe stop before this expac?

[placid shore]

yeah , cone blind

last expac, dk was like warlock
Top tier raid
Ass tier M+ (not really ass)

[formal fulcrum]

DK been meta all expac idk what you want bruv

With plenty of classes having competitive damage but a worse toolkit for high m+

[mellow pilot]

There are never a lot of rogues playing overall

[thin viper]

this season is the lowest it looks like 🥲

[mellow pilot]

And it's probably our best season

[thin viper]

it just feels bad to main rogue this season

[mellow pilot]

Why

The DMG is there

[thin viper]

kinda, but other classes can do more then dmg

[grave root]

This is the biggest cope ive ever read

[mellow pilot]

But we've been in this spot for the longest time

It's nothing new

[mellow pilot]

Thank you, I needed that

[formal fulcrum]

Prove it

[haughty kelp]

im just glad rogue had 1 incredible spec for the last 2 bosses

[warm pagoda]

Then there's my one trick pony arse sitting there like, 'well, it is time for the bench'

[placid shore]

DK Dmg allways AVG 400k Above the other Top DPS specs.

[grave root]

Where to start

You can play dk with hekili and get 100 logs

[tough swallow]

only trust information you falsified yourself!.
DK is one of the most played in general in m+

[grave root]

My friend never played dk,this is first tier and he is following the HEKILI rotation

[tough swallow]

it is even the top spec if you filter by 15+, which is the highest filter you can apply on raider.io

[placid shore]

but isnt it , just cause of the meta ? (+ easy to play )
Hunter + Pala okay they are always the player base favorites.

[tough swallow]

yes

DK is easy to play, can't die and does rly good damage

[placid shore]

Lets wait for midnight. 🙂
Then DH will be in that spot.

[zealous halo]

Archon should get deleted

[tough swallow]

but tuning is always relevant for what is plyed

[placid shore]

it was mythicstats. 🙂

[tough swallow]

you basically see the rogue spec thats tuned the highest the most played on rogue always

[zealous halo]

Mythic stats should get deleted

[placid shore]

and yeh!

[zealous halo]

For some reason the data is always so far off what the actual specs damage comparison is

I think it stems from the fact it will favor low keys heavely since there is way more low keys logs

[tough swallow]

any statistic site will always make trade offs

[zealous halo]

High keyers don't log keys

And noobs spec or specs that don't die will look better

[placid shore]

yep yep , just raw dmg compare of log collection.
Its like u are the one who brings Outlaw up there 😄

[zealous halo]

Idk

It's always just so off

Main issue is probably that no one logs m+ honestly

I wish logging was just by default

[tough swallow]

people should log m+ tbh

[zealous halo]

Like in league

[tough swallow]

it makes a lot of sense

[zealous halo]

I wonder if that's something they might do in the future, cause the new details is server side they said

[sharp nest]

what would you add to this casual checklist of things to do before midnight? I have 5-6h per week to play.

[inner scarab]

maybe some renown stuff, zone achievements so you can work on the meta achievement later if you care about that, delvers journey, legion remix and all that entails

[grim python]

i can react to glowing things , but i literally am too lazy to line up and deal with setting hard hitting spells, for example build up dance macabre to do a massive cold blood secret tech which also has to be done on super charged points

[celest hawk]

i haven't played outlaw this season and someone else pointed out there is some lineup now with ghost strike and stuff, but i can't imagine it being as bad as sub

[unreal gulch]

Well it probably starts with people logging for the wrong reasons

And for those reasons, logging m+ probably doesnt make as much sense

[tough swallow]

the main reason would be to have the option to analyze things or automate things

[unreal gulch]

Ye and most people just care about logging because they wanna have high parses

[tough swallow]

you could build something around the wcl api, but if people don't log its difficult to justify it

most just use vods if they want to analyse

vods make it easier to see whats happening, but hard to take a step back and find problems

[strange jetty]

soo if i didnt play legion and want to experience it

should i play remix or wait for legion classic, if that even a thing?

[static epoch]

the latter
remix is a romp through a vaguely-expac-themed game

with modern gameplay and all that

three weeks in, people will be soloing mythic raid and M+30

[strange jetty]

lol so will there be a legion classic?

[static epoch]

no idea, kinda doubt it, nothing "classic" about it

even MoP was very much stretching it

[rotund patrol]

first there will be WoD classic

[strange jetty]

did they announce anything about that at all?

[static epoch]

nope

I'd say if MoP reaches SoO without WoD/Legion classic announcement, it's not happening

[strange jetty]

i need to stop buying xpac and not playing them

[neon glen]

it doesn't look good for wod/legion classic if the classic population keeps declining like it is rn

[rotund patrol]

I mean that was predictable

fragmenting the playerbase does that

[neon glen]

ye and you can only milk "classic" so much

[unreal gulch]

Its not really milking as much as trying to answer the playerbase, even if I dont wanna defend blizz

[static epoch]

ngl I have zero nostalgia for MoP and not much for Cata, either
enjoyed playing TBC Classic tho, really brought back the old days for a few weeks

[neon glen]

I dunno, having 3-4 different flavours of classic is a bit overkill

[unreal gulch]

Well its because they try to do too many things for different people

Imo there should only be one classic (potentially in the veins of Sod) and maybe more frequent remixes together with retail

[neon glen]

they do and they don't have the devs to support all of them properly

[unreal gulch]

But I dont care about classic personally anyways

I dont have those nostalgia goggles

Purely from a content perspective SoD and remixes do look more interesting

[sharp nest]

Thanks, I'll look into it and see if it's something I'd enjoy

[mellow pilot]

Smh dann

[sharp nest]

back in the day I had an addon that instead of showing 10x 300k yellow damage numbers from fan of knives above the mobs, it showed the icon of FoK and the number 3 million on the right side of the UI. I also remember crits were bigger font and lingered a little longer

is an addon like that available now?

[hearty fog]

look up miks scrolling battle text

[sharp nest]

ah that's it, thanks

[soft siren]

I want to come back to play wow classic or mists or retail, any partner?

[woeful geyser]

well, this is not a classic based discord

[rotund gazelle]

rogue is not fun anymore

every spec is stealth based

well maybe not outlaw

but still no fun

[grave root]

are there any more items like this

[rotund gazelle]

there is a nelf toy

[mellow pilot]

are you sure about that

[rotund gazelle]

in m+ yes

technically sub needs to be out of combat but you get what I mean

havent played outlaw yet this season but crackshot in opener might be important

and assa cant spread dots without entering stealth

[fringe umbra]

Sub doesnt really

[woeful geyser]

i mean, you can

but sure

imagine using one of your 2 vanish charges for their purpose, or just pressing rupture 5x lol

(inc: "i dont have them anymore because i literally NEVER CAN USE STEALTH AT ALL" which is just not a real thing lol)

[rotund gazelle]

"rupture 5x lol" I dont think you understand what I said. The "Not fun" part is this

[rotund gazelle]

actually, sub kinda does really

[woeful geyser]

so you play a spec that is inheritely based around dot managment in aoe

and then dont like the dot managment in aoe

https://tenor.com/view/think-meme-thinking-memes-memes-2024-gif-6703217797690493255

[fringe umbra]

It doesnt

[woeful geyser]

what do you do when your dots drop mid pull? complain that its not fun anymore because now you need to manualy spread them?

[rotund gazelle]

the thing is you cant do your full potential.

[woeful geyser]

????

[rotund gazelle]

you are missing garrote completely

crit chance completely

[woeful geyser]

garrote outside of stealth is fucking ussules anyway lol

and giga spreading garrote is not even good

[rotund gazelle]

WHICH is my point

god are you on drugs mate

[woeful geyser]

literally the biggest mistake you can do as assa in aoe is spending 20 years spreading dots anyway, instead of getting 5bleeds running and starting pressing the actual dmg buttons

[rotund gazelle]

Ive never said I do it more than 5

I mean wth

like I am saying I dont enjoy doing 5x rupture

[past yoke]

Sub doesnt care about stealth at all, tfd is just nice

And ye if u dont like manually dotting then you just dont like assa in aoe, not the stealth part

[woeful geyser]

then dont play a spec based around dot managment if you dont like dots

like, whats so hard about that lol

[stable bison]

only time you'd ever watch for tfd is before like a prism set of cds

and you can also just force that yourself as sub

with vanish

[past yoke]

Outlaw doesnt need stealth either, if u cant stealth then you are in combat which is uptime, if u can stealth then u cant lose ar

[rotund gazelle]

sometimes you cant tho(if boss)

[past yoke]

So doesnt matter rly

[glossy flicker]

or use the extra 6s of combat to farm half a dance anyway

[woeful geyser]

and thats literally the same logic for assa lmao

if you cant stealth, you are in combat, why are you not hitting stuff and setting up your dots

[past yoke]

Yeep

[rotund gazelle]

im not anymore and it was just a hint of a me missing the good old play style

[past yoke]

Bad chaining is bad for assa if thats your point, but thats tank being bad not assa fault

[woeful geyser]

what "good old playstyle"

mut mut envenom spam??

[past yoke]

Good old assa playstyle is either envenom spam, or even more manual dotting

Depends how far back u go

[woeful geyser]

assa had no bigger changes in its gameplay for almost 10years now mate lol

[rotund gazelle]

yeah maybe not assa but no one can say df s1 outlaw before the .5 nerf

[woeful geyser]

and if you go further back its, like the guy above me said

[rotund gazelle]

and also sub

[stable bison]

fok spam bfa

[stable latch]

I mean spreading garrote is good dmg

[woeful geyser]

either just mut mut envenom spam, or even more dot focus lol

[rotund gazelle]

stealth didnt even matter

[past yoke]

Neither does now

And im not sure if stealth wasnt op back in the day for assa ngl

Like, theres a reason tanks are turbo scared of griefing assa if they dont let u stealth

even if thats not the case anymore

[woeful geyser]

in BfA, you literally had a "get stealth or do LITERALLY no dmg in aoe" playstyle

[rotund gazelle]

1/3 specs stealth based is ok

but now 3/3

[past yoke]

🤣🤣🤣didnt play bfa

[stable bison]

echoing blades

assa

fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok

[woeful geyser]

tbf, EB only was a thing in the last season

[past yoke]

What 3/3?? Assa doesnt care, sub doesnt care, and outlaw doesnt care

[rotund gazelle]

and I still disagree with making tfd not available every pack

[past yoke]

So for you mandatory stealth is minor qol or a tiny % increase in dps?

[formal fulcrum]

APL’s say this is wrong btw. Spreading dots in carnage window is great in bleed

[past yoke]

Bc if thats the case lets wait between pulls for ele shaman to get their 3 miscension bsck with bl

Sorry but no, stealth can be nice sometimes, but far from mandatory

[woeful geyser]

you should go into the shaman discord and say "i hate how CD reliant Ele is, i need ascension to do dmg"

[stable latch]

Yeah press gar in carnage until garote count-total mob count <2

[warm pagoda]

Pay me £1 and you have a deal.

[past yoke]

Idk how they do their dmg tbf

Wqs just an example, idk any other 3 min spec

[glad harness]

You should tag tony and tell him how much you fucking love ravage

[stable bison]

@manic wyvern thoughts?

[glad harness]

Wrong guy

[stable bison]

Nope

Tmy really likes it too

So much infact that he is playing the other hero talent on everything

[glad harness]

[stable bison]

He should just learn to proc tho

[manic wyvern]

Chatting

[mellow pilot]

the guy who developed said APL also says you should only garrote during IC and get 5 ruptures up and just send envenoms

as in using garrote as a builder during IC, thats what i meant

[stable latch]

Yeah which is what Kaseo said to do also

???

[tough swallow]

If you are into it, you can start testing stuff yourself in the apl

it is a very good way to learn, but it isn't a easy one

[mellow pilot]

Wa referring rupture in specific

[stable latch]

Yeah rupture is more complex

[mellow pilot]

Also using APL as a reference isn't always a good idea,

It does... Weird stuff sometimes

[stable latch]

I mean only if u tell it to do weird stuff

[hidden compass]

@inland gale

[static epoch]

backstab, wait 2 seconds, backstab, wait 6 more seconds, backstab, wait 4 seconds, SnD, wait 4 seconds, backstab, wait 6 seconds, backstab, wait 4 seconds, eviscerate

wym it's not peak

[hidden compass]

Also @glad harness I love ravage so much

[glad harness]

Right?

I had a megaproc range on one of our attemtps today

20% of my dam was ravage

[inland gale]

I’ve been playing too much m+ where I have to care about positioning and just fishing for procs all the time. WS is nice passive normal feral rotation

[mellow pilot]

done!

[static epoch]

gz

[alpine bridge]

anyone knows if we getting some reworks? overall lately the changes were underwhelming.

[mellow pilot]

how would we know

[neon glen]

@tepid nimbus knows everything regarding reworks and he should be trusted blindly

[alpine bridge]

haven't checked anything last 2 weeks, was off, that's why i asked

[meager totem]

wait for alpha to go live

and youll see

if theres reworks youre not going to see them before prepatch

[alpine bridge]

all g

[tepid nimbus]

check phase 1

[alpine bridge]

Tbh, every rog spec need a rework. We became one of the least played classes 😅

[mellow pilot]

that wont change with a rework

we're still competing with paladins, druids, warriors and hunters

zugzug classes

[upper shale]

Maybe we can become zugzug

[mild wasp]

we have been bottom 3 since they started releasing those statistics in icc

[clever talon]

If i wanna have fun with rogue again , its sitting there 700 ilvl 4 set doing nothing haha. Its speced outlaw its booring for me. So is assa somehow good cuz of funnel or to learn sub

[unreal gulch]

Both are good

[unreal gulch]

We had one not long ago and the main issue is perception, not much else. That aside, an mmorpg should have a class for everyone, which also means there will for sure be less popular classes

[wind coyote]

I kinda disagree with the take, the current Rogue design is so bloated in interactions between internal mechanics we get twice the bugs for each individual change every time.

Also I think outlaw is in a quite weird state, flat dmg profile that is heavily punished by downtime is just bad imho

it's like a double sentence

[mellow pilot]

It's been like that since bfa

[unreal gulch]

Other classes have quite some bugs aswell and the (already lessened) thought processes needed is quite a part of the appeal of the class/spec for quite many of the regular players

Which goes back to the "there should be a class for everyone"

[wind coyote]

Also our M+ utility is crap

[unreal gulch]

Which is just balancing or adding a single thing, not a rework

[wind coyote]

yes that was not the main point

[unreal gulch]

I also wrote smth about your main point

[wind coyote]

But if we speak rework, I think outlaw at least needs it the most

[unreal gulch]

It will get one in some form because of its WA reliance

Gotta wait and see what that turns out to be

Maybe they change something else aswell while they are at it

[wind coyote]

I really wanna play outlaw but in the end, it's 200% effort for minimal results.

[unreal gulch]

Personally dont see playing outlaw as much of an added effort

WA does most of the heavy lifting, that aside its mostly slightly higher apm and procs

[wind coyote]

Too many things to track + anytime you can't have full uptime can't fuck AR uptime which is extremely punishing when the dmg isn't even that great to begin with.

[unreal gulch]

What kind of "many things" are there to track that would set it above other specs that track stuff? Rtb is 100% just the WA

AR uptime isnt more effort, its just potentially more frustrating, either way you can only keep going

You dont even force uptime more than on any other spec

Even if you maybe depend more on it

[wind coyote]

Managing vanish windows while prioritizing Coup/KS + RtB/KiR

And compared to sub/sin, the uptimes requirements are quite different, you can mostly avoid bursting when having to do mechanics.

and not lose too much dmg when doing mechanics properly

[unreal gulch]

You can potentially be impacted less yes

But its not any added effort

Your only option is to work with what you have in any way

[wind coyote]

Rotationnally it takes a lot more to play outlaw optimally than sub or sin

[unreal gulch]

Thats not more than other specs, especially with rtb being managed by WA

[unreal gulch]

Subjective, I personally wouldnt agree that outlaw apm is high enough to take a toll on a healthy individual any more than other specs, which is a main point for many talking about the difficulty

[wind coyote]

I've played most other melees, no other spec comes close to the added mental burden of outlaw.

[unreal gulch]

Its harder than sin in St for sure

[wind coyote]

Sub is super chill outside of burst windows.

When I play Havoc, it's just funny how simple it is

War is a lot easier as well, Ret too

[stable bison]

time to whip out the inertia fel-scarred build

[wind coyote]

Maybe enh sham is close.

[unreal gulch]

Thats kinda the subjective point

Enhancer imo is super easy

[wind coyote]

inertia isn't played a lot atm is it not ? It's mostly exergy.

[unreal gulch]

And there are definitely builds of dh that, per community perception, are among the hardest

[wind coyote]

Yeah but they are a very minor optimization

[stable bison]

it is the best single target build, its just alot harder to play optimally so nobody does

only hawwk cuz he is a lunatic

[wind coyote]

isn't it marginally better though ?

like 2-3% at best ?

[stable bison]

like 1% at best

[unreal gulch]

2-3 isnt marginal tho

[wind coyote]

yeah so my point kinda stands

[unreal gulch]

People do crazy shit for 0.5

[stable bison]

point is

to play optimally

you would play that

if you cared

and it is alot harder to play than no mover shit

[unreal gulch]

Same as all the optimizations on sub

If you really wanted them all

Even the stupid ones

[stable bison]

especially on stuff like mythic dimmy

watching hawwk play that there was funny af

[wind coyote]

I don't mind that there's minor optimizations worth to learn especially when you know fights well. But outlaw's entire gameplay is much more punishing by default with common builds.

[unreal gulch]

Being punishing due to unavoidable stuff doesnt equal effort or difficulty tho

[stable bison]

no, it makes it a bad designed spec

which outlaw is

[unreal gulch]

Ye thats for sure

insert one of the gazillion bring back combat memes<

[stable bison]

if the spec doesent work because of a certain fight design

its a bad designed spec

and should prolly get reworked

[wind coyote]

I mean if I summarize my thoughts, the spec is both hard to play not even 100% optimally, and at the same time it's extremely punishing in most fight designs

That's the combination of those that hurts

and makes it terribly designed

and it being bottom boss dmg makes it just worse.

[unreal gulch]

Dont think they can keep outlaw unique and spamy enough to satisfy the current players while changing much of the uptime related issues

[stable bison]

well you can keep it spammy

you just need to not have cds that feed that loop that requires full uptime

and add some sort of cd with a burst value

so its not completely flat

still kinda flat but not quite

similarly to how Fury warrior works

[unreal gulch]

Agree on the punishing part atleast

And the bad design

[wind coyote]

I don't mind disagreeing 😄

[unreal gulch]

Same, its subjective at the end of the day

[stable bison]

only hard spec according to me that ive ever played in wow

[unreal gulch]

But that would kinda move it away from the spamy nature

[stable bison]

was surrender to madness SP in legion

[unreal gulch]

Fury CDs are a joke aswell

[stable bison]

fury is very fckin spammy

[unreal gulch]

Ye but the CD isnt really bursty

[wind coyote]

also I got a very bad leftover taste from trying it on Soul hunters yesterday (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vBDjarK6Awgc1yfk)

[stable bison]

not compared to actual burst classes

but compared to outlaw it sorta is

[wind coyote]

Where I should not have considering I was in pain and tired af

[stable bison]

its still bad

but not as bad

[unreal gulch]

I mean depending on what they do with rtb while they are at it, it might get changed

I could see them doing something with outlaw along the lines of devourer dh aswell tho, if the design they have in mind for outlaw doesnt work out and devourer does work out

Where you can potentially have some sort of mid range mode

Since uptime related stuff most of the time works better on "ranged" specs ig

[wind coyote]

Aye

what pushed outlaw gameplay over the edge is trickster gameplay for me imho

I do handle KiR game + AR uptime with vanish windows game alright

but god add Trickster onto that and I just have problems.

I don't really like the idea of the spec relying on Vanish windows purely thematically as well.

[mighty hatch]

i mean rtb is far from the worst offender of the spec

like idk why people focus on dice when theres like

a ton more rng things in the spec that makes it kinda wonky

like ss rng chance, fth, ho, aces in general. ect ect ect

[unreal gulch]

Blizz likes rng

And outlaw is far from most rng

[mighty hatch]

ya i know its far from the worst rng spec

mm exists

what im saying is that people hyperfocus on rtb when talking about outlaw rng. when its probably the least rng part of the spec

[fringe umbra]

Just like when people talk about sub funnel

Bros havent updated their rogue knowledge since BFA

[hearty fog]

thanks 🐀 👃

[unreal gulch]

Ye im just saying that complaining about rng is pointless either way

There are many specs with roughly the same variance

[stable latch]

Where is this from?

[unreal gulch]

Some with worse, obviously some with better

[tough swallow]

Simulationcrat website

*simulationcraft

[mighty hatch]

[bright wraith]

every spec is 50/50 rng due to crit

[sharp nest]

Can you recommend a guild for lower m+ runs and some other group content? Finding a group below +10 seems impossible. EU-Silvermoon

[unreal gulch]

Just use the guild finder or look at rio guild posts

[sharp nest]

Will do, good idea

[rare solar]

there's also the no pressure community

[glossy zealot]

man shroud really needs a rework

wish they gave us smoke bomb or something as a second choice, would also help with dungeons like priory where dk grips feel so good. at least you have a choice of dk or rogue to bring then to solve the sharpshooter issue

[sharp nest]

How come my chest piece is mythic colored if it's only 704ilvl?

Ah nvm it was swapped in the datamined article

This is the heroic appearance

[mellow pilot]

If you need ilvl threshold's for Tmog, #transmog has all the info you need

[sharp nest]

Cool, will ask my next question there

[jade plank]

are sub and sin viable in keys?

[tough swallow]

yes, both are

[mellow pilot]

outlaw too

[placid snow]

unless your pushing high then we are unworkable 😛

[jade plank]

sub plays trickster and sin plays ds?

[mellow pilot]

yes

[sharp nest]

How do I know if I am doing good dps in mythic+ runs for my ilvl? I can't see a log filter for that. Or should I just focus on doing mechanics, interrupting and if we time it we did well?

For example I'm doing +2s, ilvl 687 and average dps for dungeons is around 2.3m. Not sure what number should I aim for

[mellow pilot]

you can't know

thats WAY too low to even think about it

in that case, its more of "are you timing the keys?"

[sharp nest]

Yeah usually +2, I managed a +3 eco dome today

[mellow pilot]

Even in m+10s the DPS variance can be SO huge

[visual storm]

Can I share the same gear set as sub and assassin? I am new and still do not know which one to main and want to swap them often doing mythic+

[mellow pilot]

yes you can for the most part

[novel cipher]

Assassination isn't picky on gear itemization. Sub does

So if you gear for sub mostly then you'd be fine

[visual storm]

Okay ty!

[gaunt drum]

Wich is the easiest spec to play between the 3

Rotation wise

[inland gale]

Assa

[wispy quarry]

Playing sin on +18s perfectly fi e

[tiny forge]

i really hope the dimensius wrists are on the dinar vendor.

want all the glowy hand colors

[jade panther]

junkyard dog is the translation english-french of how we call this type of guy

[tough swallow]

Unsure if anyone did Lemix beta, if so i wonder if someone tested if cross fraction works.
I remember it was a bigger problem we had in our guild in Pandaria Remix, where certain content was not doable cross fraction (even tho some workarounds existed).

[sharp nest]

Im simming sub aoe 10% higher than assa in dungeon slice, is a good aoe rotation harder to maintain as sub?

Or is it just blowing up the highest HP target and let nimble flurry /black powder do the rest?

[mellow pilot]

Sims aren't supposed to be used to compare specs/classes

[analog acorn]

This, but I’m pretty sure that Assa is generally harder to play in m+

[mellow pilot]

Assa in m+ becomes harder once IC is down, you have no vanish charges and have to manually apply 5 ruptures and maintain them

Other than that is pretty straight forward

[woeful geyser]

fyi, that counts as advertisment and you can report them for it

cus its literally boost selling in disguise

[robust nacelle]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/q672ix3h1gg cant even chill on your hpally anymore..

[loud bloom]

Which player is a good reference for what specc to play which boss?🤔

[mellow pilot]

Warcraft logs

[left crow]

In Ara Kara or Priory I always stay back a little and look if the tank simply rides through all the mobs or actually does something to get aggro. Riders sure can wait till the mobs reached them before I do anything.

[robust nacelle]

i think arakara is more managable than priory but yup

u can bottleneck the pulls in arakara

ik ill wings+ sac,its gonna be ok

AM as well,should be enough

[tough swallow]

just play subtlety everywhere ^^

[edgy nimbus]

is ther a good way to see what abilities were pressed when on logs?

For example timelines doesnt show everyhing like Vanish usage etc

[stable bison]

timeline and casts

or go the casts tab and press the little + on the right side of the spells you want to see

[edgy nimbus]

thanks

[lime relic]

Is it faster to do timewalking dungeons to level as a tank at 70-80?

[mellow pilot]

"as a tank" part is guaranteed for any dungeon content. TW does indeed give more EXP

[outer kettle]

Are many of you spec switching in raid? Unsure whether it just makes more sense to optimise all my stats to focus on one rather than being like slightly suboptimal for both

[mellow pilot]

Try hards maybe switching

Doesn't matter

Play what you enjoy

Or whatever your raid leader asks you

[edgy nimbus]

is there a way to compare flasks/pots in raidbotS? I only see the option to choose your flask but not to compare them

[tough swallow]

#tc-research message

[edgy nimbus]

thanks

[wind coyote]

I play sub 99% of the time and on some bosses I played outlaw on start of progress just for funsies before going back to sub because fuck outlaw when the fight also requires thinking

[edgy nimbus]

Does anyone know where i can find boss timers for mythic raid

for bosses that do transitions time based instead of hp based

For example - when Soulbinde releases adds, when forgeweaver does intermission

[sick finch]

@glad harness

[meager totem]

<@&224906552333697025>

[glad harness]

I was too late

[wicked night]

Myth track gear will require the currency and have players to have beaten the timer in all Season 3 M+ dungeons at Mythic 12 or Higher (having unlocked the Resilient Keystone system.) To purchase Myth track raid gear will require the associated boss to have been defeated at least once in Mythic difficulty to purchase that gear.

This is confusing for me, myth track gear is for m+12 but then says mythic difficulty in raid, so you can get any trinket in m+ mythic or what?

[noble kestrel]

If you've done M+12 on all keys you can buy Myth quality dungeon trinkets, yeah. But to buy Myth quality raid loot you need Mythic raid boss kills.

[wicked night]

there are no good dungeon trinkets lol

is it account wide or character wide

?

[noble kestrel]

Character wide

At least it was in S2 and i doubt they'll have changed it for S3.

There's some good dungeon trinkets, but it's about what content you are doing, etc.

[tidal skiff]

guys does anyone know what wa/plater setting/addon this is from?

[sharp nest]

How do you analyze if you are doing your job in m+ correctly? In raids it's like if i parse well and do mechanics + avoid avoidable damage I'm satisfied. What should I look at in mythic+?

This is what AI said, after saying that timing the run is the most important indicator:

[hearty fog]

🤖

[sharp nest]

the first response was for damage, the second for utility.

[hearty fog]

AI sounds like a bu nch of garbage

if key is timed

then you look at damage

if youre last on damage then i guess work on that

idk theres a lot of factors

that you can analyse

some matter more than others depending on what the issue is though

because the reason one run failed

might be different to another run

like sure you can look at overall interrupts

but even thats kinda a moot point if the run fails

i tend to look at cause of deaths

[sharp nest]

I see, maybe I just like the straight-forwardness of parse percentile in raids, I understand it's not possible for m+

[hearty fog]

yeah m+ has a lot more going on for it

and you gotta analyse each run as its own separate thing

[sharp nest]

it would be better with a stable group I expect

[mellow pilot]

Most likely

[hearty fog]

yeah

if your run went well you look at what went well

if the run failed

you look at why it failed

[glossy zealot]

doesnt look too bad as general guidelines

[hearty fog]

idk

at a surface level sure

but i still think none of it really matters

if the run fails you look at the points of failure aka when someone died

or if a pack lived too long

looking at overall interrupts is a moot point

[glossy zealot]

yeah but the reason for failure can usually be pin pointed to one of the guidelines listed by the AI

doesnt say anything about overall interrupts in there i think

[hearty fog]

those guidelines left out the reason i failed 4 arakara keys in a row because a patrol walked into the pack

and we wiped because we didnt have enough kicks

same with the priory key that was bricked because soak was done too early

[glossy zealot]

yeah but those mistakes are a little more specific and obvious, can’t cover everything in a short page of guidelines

[hearty fog]

the AI guidelines are both correct and also kinda useless at the same time

[glossy zealot]

like its not meant to be exhaustive

[manic sedge]

if you perform well in raid you'll most likely perform well in M+

given you understand why you press things at specific timers in raid

you can see m+ as one large raid boss

[glossy zealot]

idk, m+ is a lot more cd management and personal responsibilities, also a lot less scripted and requires more on the fly decision making (unless youre in a really good premade)

[manic sedge]

no doubt, but the same principles apply in regards to good performance dps-wise

[glossy zealot]

fair

[manic sedge]

like you're not sending cds on boss if you're about to have an add phase, which is comparable to holding cds on an M+ boss when you're about to pull a big pack afterwards

[hearty fog]

i disagree

[celest hawk]

if you're really wanting to analyse i'd record your gameplay and watch it back, assuming you're aware of most or all the things you could be doing, watching it back will show you what you're not doing which is pretty hard to notice while actually playing

[hearty fog]

it seems like the skills should transfer

but like

[celest hawk]

m+ is so moment to moment that i think that gives the best awareness of "oh i could have done x here"

[hearty fog]

so many raiders are shit at m+

so many key andys are shit at raid

[glossy zealot]

most keyers i play with generally do well in raid, the opposite is less often true

[manic sedge]

I should clarify - I meant more likely, not ‘most’

[hearty fog]

yeah granted i have small sample size

but we have a mage who is consistent m+ title

struggled with ghosts on saladbar so hard

struggled on sprocket as well

idk i think its a m+ mentality

where they try and greed too much

that being said his mate who also joined as a trial this tier

is pretty good

[glossy zealot]

probably, you obviously play super greedy in m+ cuz of timer. raid mechanics are a bit more complicated than m+ ones usually so i can see title players struggle, but if it’s just one mechanic out of all the bosses that’s not too bad

imo raid is easier for the average raider because you mostly just need to log on, listen to the raid leader who has all the strats and thats it. in m+ everyone needs to know mechanics and theres no leader there to carry you

well, maybe easier is not the right word, but theres so much less personal responsibility

hof/rwf or being a raid lead is an entirely different story ofc

[unreal gulch]

Well tbf in premade groups you can have something similar to a raidlead

[left crow]

I suggest recording a run and watch it back entirely. You'll see a lot of situations where you could have done this or that and how long you hold your cds etc. Quite interesting when you have the time to see what you did.

[sour patrol]

Man I always forget my Druid is on a different server from Ash.
It's fucking dead out here, can't find a crafter to make a staff

Guess I'll try tomorrow, should be more on

[mellow pilot]

theres a way around the system

but you do need some talking back and forth