subtlety

[muted birch]

Finally, this one time wouldnt hurt

[grizzled hornet]

with the bonus rolls you get

+vault chances

[muted birch]

Gaze will be harder to get

[delicate wharf]

Fellas, is there anything to minmax on the spec atm?

[muted birch]

So im gonna target that one

[muted birch]

Have you macroeed dance and st yet ?

[latent remnant]

I got one bad bonus roll on chim but after that I got chest and gaze, was really solid bonus roll target

[grizzled hornet]

yes, there are some optimizations, you could visit FAQ

[muted birch]

IT tremendously helped me

Just one funny macro

[delicate wharf]

Ye

And having trinket not macrod and pressing it before blades opener

[muted birch]

Then im out of suggestions

Remember 1s

Have a timer out

[grizzled hornet]

i am currently 290ilvl and week 1million have not yet seen a mythic chest

[peak ice]

Like

Mythic tier?

[grizzled hornet]

yeah mythic track

[tribal blade]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1488547832062415010/drop_fixed.png

[grizzled hornet]

no vault,no raid drop, nada

[muted birch]

I got it

Tho i dont know what to do now

[peak ice]

Like you don’t have a mythic chest or you just haven’t seen it drop

[muted birch]

Can Craft 3rd item

[latent remnant]

Only things I need now are rings and bracers

[muted birch]

Considering even engi head

[grizzled hornet]

i have a hero track chest and havent seen one drop in order to get it from any content

[peak ice]

Oh fuck that’s rough as

[muted birch]

First Item i got on bonus roll tbh

[grizzled hornet]

i swear chimaerus drops mail tier every reset

[muted birch]

Yes

100% actually

We had him also drop it

And 2x gaze

[grizzled hornet]

x2 gaze is goated

[muted birch]

Last time i saw everyone bid an item

Was i think back in legion

[tribal blade]

i was incredibly lucky and won myth gaze on my guild's first chim kill

and that was basically all my loot luck right there lol

[muted birch]

Well the guild didnt left me behind after progress kill

We went vs

Dagger dropped, and they handed IT to me

[latent remnant]

I used all my luck on reclears this week, rest of the tier is looking dire

[muted birch]

Which was nice xD

[grizzled hornet]

thats not luck tho is it? wasnt it loot counciled?

[tribal blade]

it was counciled, but what they did was choose who could roll then rolled it off

[grizzled hornet]

luck would be me vaulting it week2 with leech, i screamed irl

[muted birch]

Tho now they expect me to do more

[tribal blade]

they kinda have to do it that way or else there's major loot drama

you know how it is

[grizzled hornet]

oh dang

[delicate wharf]

Ye often when guilds feel like multiple ppl are fine to get them item, they just roll it out to them

[peak ice]

That happened on mines too

[muted birch]

Yup can confirm

[peak ice]

And they grey parse mage got it

Soooo

[tribal blade]

yeah sometimes it's tough, like last tier i lost the roll for myth prism to our hunter who gray/green parses every fight and is floor pov

[muted birch]

The gamble was real

[peak ice]

I wasn’t salty at all

[tribal blade]

because of that system

[muted birch]

Even bribes were on table

[peak ice]

That was my old guild lol

Floor pov

[muted birch]

With feet pics xD

On mythic having green parses on ilvl

Is bad

[grizzled hornet]

yeah thats rough, my guild is quite forward with loot and upgrades, we THANKFULLY do not roll upgrades and bis loot

[peak ice]

Got obsidian slayer with that guild

[latent remnant]

my parses are ass but we get kills is what matters I feel still

[muted birch]

I have green overall parse on chima

But ilvl 88 i think

Was focusin more on adds

Since they many times got to Chim

[grizzled hornet]

when you are on progress, parses do not matter that much, especially this deep in the tier when parsing is just padding and doing degen things in raid

[muted birch]

That's from Chima kill

Progress

And my 1st time on midnight raid

[grizzled hornet]

i cant parse chimaerus cus our surv hunter, goes down every add set and does less boss dmg than our prot warr tanking it....

[muted birch]

Look at the rogue

[grizzled hornet]

boss dies never, and adds die instantly

[muted birch]

He Has both gaze and haste trink

[grizzled hornet]

most likely he is a member of this discord, just a heads up

[muted birch]

That's not supposed to happen, and he was always on boss

[peak ice]

You need to hit ads for parse

[muted birch]

I actually couldnt care less

When somone lies

[grizzled hornet]

+kill timer

[peak ice]

88k is like fine

[muted birch]

60on boss

[tribal blade]

yeah i sometimes wish my guild was like that too, but then i know we would have mad loot drama

[grizzled hornet]

loot drama even at the start of the tier?

[tribal blade]

my RL kinda hates dealing with loot drama haha

[tribal blade]

i think so yeah

[muted birch]

Lets say the guy doubtfully is here

Not many Poles are here

[somber sun]

just tell everyone to go greed option on bis items

[muted birch]

The smarter one yes

[tribal blade]

i think my RL set it up this way to minimize the chances of having loot drama, and can't say i blame him

[muted birch]

I didnt interact here since i joijed up till tww

[tribal blade]

just sucks when you see big items go to the wrong hands

[muted birch]

When i grew up to Ask for pointers

[latent remnant]

we just use wowaudit

[grizzled hornet]

i hate loot drama and loot hoes in general

[peak ice]

Just settle it with a scrap outside of the grocery store

Ez

[tribal blade]

i'm in general kinda chill about gear for the most part, but when it's something like prism going to the wrong person THEN i was getting pretty heated

[peak ice]

Prism?

[muted birch]

Or those WHO get the loot and doesnt use IT/no real improvement

[grizzled hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/glee-community-jeff-winger-i-hate-glee-gif-11469741756908834504

[tribal blade]

HAHA maybe younger me

[tribal blade]

omg i hate glee too

[muted birch]

I just Hope there wont be any delve

Crap that gonba SIM and perform

On myth level trink

[tribal blade]

yeah it was a trinket that stored stacks of agi buff up to like 18 or something, and when you used it it gave you a MASSIVE amount of main stat

[muted birch]

I hated tww

[tribal blade]

and sub was crazy burst dmg in TWW

so prism+sub

was nutty burst

[peak ice]

I see

[muted birch]

Coz of those trinks

[peak ice]

Better give it to a shadow priest

[muted birch]

Loved it

[grizzled hornet]

thats bad Loot Council and RL, for example we always sim and use droptimizer for loot, to see upgrades and its mostly the higher upgrade + some loot counseling, that depends on the player/performance

[tribal blade]

but dying meant you lost all your stacks

so obviously it wasn't great in the hands of someone who's floor pov

[muted birch]

You felt the magnitude of your power

[tribal blade]

i had a love/hate relationship with it

[grizzled hornet]

please dont remind these days, i get ptsd

[tribal blade]

i will say the good thing about playing with prism is it made you play very carefully haha

and try not to die

[peak ice]

We have a guidon curse atm where as soon as you get myth guidon you just immediately suck shit for the rest of the raid

[tribal blade]

maybe blizz will give us back our burst /cope

[muted birch]

When i was gm back in tww, i told my team to write me a list of hard bises

Like mandatory

[grizzled hornet]

i just want haste removed please

[peak ice]

I kinda like the extended dance ngl

[muted birch]

No one was favored

Funny thing, i geared last

Back then i belived on experiance

[tribal blade]

yeah the way they implemented haste for sub kinda blows

not a fan

[muted birch]

And relied on IT xD

But back then if i have to swap asa, just to do dmg then yeah

[grizzled hornet]

i just want sub to do 1 gazillion dmg in cds and not be a consistent dps, a lot of people like it and i am not saying we are in a bad position, our dmg is fine, i just dont like the way we play right now

[muted birch]

Now, if we get stuck and my dps will be on par with rest, im gonna stay and have fun, let those Below me swap xD

[peak ice]

……I kinda like this more idk

[muted birch]

I want atleast one nore Button

[tribal blade]

maybe they should have made haste increase the dmg of blades and dance or something

[muted birch]

Something to track

[grizzled hornet]

its always personal preference i am not judging people that like this version of sub

[muted birch]

Or something that easens up the wait

[grizzled hornet]

its just that we were used to something bursty and niche and with the years the identity changed

[muted birch]

Its still bursty

[grizzled hornet]

now when we bp as sub we are called padders

like wtf

[muted birch]

But dumbed

On paper

[tribal blade]

i'm fine with us losing burst, it was very lopsided before, but we went in the opposite direction

[muted birch]

There's still more then meets the eye

[tribal blade]

would have preferred a middle ground

[peak ice]

I can’t remember enjoying sub in raid this much

I was playing assa in dragon flight and that had like 20 buttons at least and it was not a good time imo

[tribal blade]

also wtf happened to sectec dmg

[muted birch]

I just to be able to have shadowdance usable without st

[tribal blade]

i want to go back to doing real sectec dmg

[muted birch]

On like 50% power

[peak ice]

What happened to bone spear

[muted birch]

Dunno something to do

[peak ice]

Did they just completely remove it

[muted birch]

Died

Yes

[peak ice]

Rip

[tribal blade]

i dunno why they removed bone spike, it was a passive

[grizzled hornet]

yes this, i want shadow dance and sectec to matter when pressed, i wanna press shadow dance and know that i am gonna do a gazilion dmg burst

[muted birch]

Which is weird

[peak ice]

Na the cast one

From assa

[muted birch]

WHO casted IT

[tribal blade]

yeah sectec being a nuclear button is so much fun

[muted birch]

Before having

On few targets? XD

[grizzled hornet]

it was the strongest button in the game legit

[muted birch]

Its a waste anyway

[tribal blade]

was so cool

[tribal blade]

they turned it into a complete passive

[muted birch]

Oh yes, skyrocketing on meters

[tribal blade]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=455352/serrated-bone-spikes

[muted birch]

I miss the CD reduction

[tribal blade]

you didn't even need to track sbs

it just did it's thing

was very fun

dunno why they got rid of it

[muted birch]

They actually took away something which was part since day 1

[peak ice]

What id that

But shadow

Eh blizzard eh

[tribal blade]

i guess they removed it because they wanted to slow sin down in aoe

[muted birch]

Sub is still fub

But that fun is automated

[tribal blade]

oh i know why

bone spike ruins the flow of new sin

that's spamming CT to spread bleeds

[muted birch]

And what's the new flow

[peak ice]

I mean for us

What if we had the bone spike

[muted birch]

I didnt check sin

[tribal blade]

with sbs you would finisher>full CPs again

[muted birch]

I hated sin ever since wotlk

[tribal blade]

which means you would be envenom>envenom when you want to be casting CT to spread

i think that's why

[grizzled hornet]

i actually had a conversation with fuu sometime ago, and we were talking how much more impactful would be to remove goremaw(useless talent) and add a talent that would do smth like "Sylvana's dagger passive"
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=357595/banshees-blight

[tribal blade]

YES

YES

YES

[muted birch]

Give back as talent

[tribal blade]

make that our funnel

[muted birch]

Even with half the power of two daggera

[grizzled hornet]

bruh...this answer gave me fucking goosebumps

[tribal blade]

haha i'm a huge banshee's blight dickrider

that's one of the changes i want most

[scarlet heath]

this topic keeps coming back, I also suggetsed the same thing a few times

[muted birch]

I would even go as far as to make IT a sub only poison

I know shadowlands were bad

[peak ice]

Lol goremaw

[scarlet heath]

yup, make it into a poison that is execute focused

[muted birch]

But i liked it

Same with wod

[keen steppe]

Sylvanas Dagger Dickrider here aswell

[tribal blade]

woooo

i still have like 6 EoNs in my void storage

[muted birch]

Lack of content and hyped worked against those exps

[peak ice]

They could leave goremaw and make on of the useless passive ones just innate tbh

[scarlet heath]

they can just replace dark brew

it's boring ahh talent

[muted birch]

That one

[scarlet heath]

even moreso with rup removal

[tribal blade]

i think DB has potential

[muted birch]

Blizzard take notes

[peak ice]

Just make dark brew always on

[grizzled hornet]

db can be quite strong as a talent

[scarlet heath]

well, if Banshee Blight was introduced it makes dark brew kinda pointless anyways

nothing to convert

now it's just 10% dmg node

[muted birch]

I just fear S2 midnight gonna bring another rework

[scarlet heath]

when it converted rupture it at least made sense

[tribal blade]

my thought was make DB change auto attack dmg to shadow or something

more prio

and more ST

maybe

[scarlet heath]

or that

[muted birch]

Nah to op

[scarlet heath]

but then that makes EW even more useless

[muted birch]

Shadow damage on white hits

[peak ice]

I feel like the rotten is kinda like

[scarlet heath]

EW already kinda sus on current Sub

[tribal blade]

lol yeah it sounds pretty dank

[peak ice]

Fine but boring

[muted birch]

Means we hit for 100% damage

[scarlet heath]

it fits Outlaw a lot more

[muted birch]

No armor

[tribal blade]

would probably need some tinkering and tuning

[muted birch]

And dh brand would boost it

[tribal blade]

but you get the idea

[muted birch]

Yup

Sub needs to get his identy back

[tribal blade]

or maybe "makes your auto attacks deal an additional 20% in shadow damage" or something

[muted birch]

We have that on shadowblades

[weary tree]

i loved having the bug where you could stack it up at the beginning of the fight with taking dmg and having sac on you

[peak ice]

Does anyone use gloomblade

[tribal blade]

true

[muted birch]

We could go as with

[grizzled hornet]

shadowblades need to be reworked 100%

[muted birch]

Swaping skill dmg to shadow

And the extra shadow dmg from crits

[tribal blade]

omg yeah i remember that lol

[muted birch]

Would be buffed a bit

[scarlet heath]

the reason why I want BB is so that we actually have a good thematic poison for Sub

like yeah the dmg from instant poison is there but so bland

[vale pine]

blades was never that good of an cooldown

[tribal blade]

i feel like the general goal of the sub talent tree should be turning more and more of our damage into shadow

[grizzled hornet]

is where? its cringe having instant poison as sub

[scarlet heath]

well it's like what

[grizzled hornet]

yeah thats why it needs rework

[scarlet heath]

3%?

so not something you would ignore

[tribal blade]

more like 1%

or so

[scarlet heath]

oh

[tribal blade]

instant poison does almost nothing

[scarlet heath]

well yeah, just feels so bad

gimme shadow poison that does something

[peak ice]

I mean just having dark brew be just always a thing would solve that

[tribal blade]

my last dragons kill, nvm it's more like 0.5%

[peak ice]

Mostly

[tribal blade]

ring set does more

[peak ice]

I wonder if the double ring set does more

lol does it really

[tribal blade]

that's why if a dungeon needs wound poison i just wear that shit the entire run lol

[scarlet heath]

I remember that it used to do at least like 2-3

[tribal blade]

almost 0 diff

[scarlet heath]

now that is giga bad lol

[peak ice]

What dungeon needs wound poison.

[tribal blade]

yeah that's why them putting instant poison on DB was so confusing

like the person who thought of that idea has absolutely no idea how sub works

[peak ice]

Does outlaw use poisons

[scarlet heath]

instant same as us

[peak ice]

Right

So they just went

[tribal blade]

same but it does more than us

iirc

[peak ice]

All rogues get poison

[tribal blade]

this is old info, but i remember instant doing like ~5% of outlaw's overall in keys

[scarlet heath]

yeah.. funny thing is outlaw used to have no poison

[peak ice]

And pickpocket

[scarlet heath]

cuz thematically it doesnt fit

but people went

hurrr durrrr my rogue identity

we want poison

[peak ice]

Does pickpocket do anything anymore

[scarlet heath]

k here you have this useelss thing back

[tribal blade]

zac's rank 1 lura parse

[peak ice]

Poison buff when

[scarlet heath]

just remove it, give us 2% dmg buff instead

done

nobody gonna miss it

[tribal blade]

random one of zac's keys

[scarlet heath]

see

there is 3%

[tribal blade]

mainly because instant poison is spread by bladeflurry

[scarlet heath]

I was a believer

[tribal blade]

so it has a lot of hits for outlaw

[muted birch]

Ever since legion

[tribal blade]

but for sub it is not spread by nimble

only storm/BP

[muted birch]

Besides shadow = void

Void is weak to void

[tribal blade]

they need to keep leaning more into it 😉

[muted birch]

Sub goat

Ez legendary

[peak ice]

I need some void themed transmog

Or sub themed

[graceful osprey]

Why do we even instant poison as sub anyways now…does like 0 damage… might as well be double utility poisons

[peak ice]

Cause it flashes at me if I don’t

[muted birch]

New recolor

[tribal blade]

GOOD QUESTION

[muted birch]

Of t2

Or mix with firelands heroix set

[peak ice]

T2 armos trash

[muted birch]

I had some void themed i recall

Selfmade

[hazy breach]

Idk dark brew should be interesting and buffing poisons to be relevant, but its just undertuned

[muted birch]

Might show you later, i check others to get inspiration for my own xD

As name suggests

[tribal blade]

good point tbh

[muted birch]

Dark brew, not a poison but in chemical terminology liquid with hazardous interaction

[tribal blade]

it would be pretty cool if DB made instant poison actually do meaningful dmg

[muted birch]

Atleast when i translate the brew part to my language 😂

[graceful osprey]

Could make it a special sub only poison. Some sort of shadow poison

Goremaw’s Blood kek

[grizzled hornet]

banshee's blight #sylvanasdickriding

[muted birch]

I hop on that

No homo

[tribal blade]

if we got a dmg raid buff and banshee's blight i would lose my shit

[grizzled hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/community-gif-23728528

[tribal blade]

hahaaaa

[muted birch]

Rogue needs some love overall

[grizzled hornet]

rewatching community was like 1 of the best decisions i have ever made in my life

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it's pretty amazing

[violet palm]

Didn't dark brew was used for rapture at some point?

[graceful osprey]

Would be cool if sub becomes more of a Kyvesa + shadow clone theme in addition to what it is now

[muted birch]

Ye IT swaped poison and bleeds to shadow

Tbh

Sub generaly

Or what we hit introduced on legion

[violet palm]

Yeah, and now we lost rap an still have brew

[muted birch]

Is carbon copy of Claas from.game that basicly was copy pastę of wow xD

Rift

Tho instead of shadow

IT was arcane i think

Or magical overall

Fond memory since i played a bit

[violet palm]

Arcane trickster subclass

[graceful osprey]

The class fantasy for legion was S tier, I miss that

[muted birch]

Something like that

But severaly undertuned

I think the only MMO other then starwars

That hooked me up

[keen steppe]

I was playing assa rogue when rogues destroying zul i wish i could see that what happen back in the days

[muted birch]

I didnt Play bfa

But i did saw the video's

[keen steppe]

All what i know was the name "sub rogue pinata"

[muted birch]

heard it was nerfed

quite fast

[tribal blade]

dark, dark times for sub

that led to me cancelling my sub from wow for most of bfa

[keen steppe]

And know people blame me for not doing prio damage in keys

[muted birch]

btw

I have the ring set from nexus

and only use them in pair on raids actually

but I do have ring with haste/mastery

[tribal blade]

sub does decent prio in keys currently

it's not terrible

it's just not amazing

[muted birch]

for multi target we favor mastery over rest of stats yes ?

[tribal blade]

also the specs sub wants to play with contribute a lot of prio dmg like arms warr

[muted birch]

at the same time keeping enough haste correct?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tribal blade]

yes mastery becomes good on high target counts

i shouldn't say becomes good, becomes even better

[hazy breach]

Nothing wrong with the ring set in keys either

Its obviously not very impactful on huge aoe

[tribal blade]

the ring set does quite a bit of dmg

[hazy breach]

But it's fine

[tribal blade]

are you and your friends raiding?

i remember you guys were in limbo

[hazy breach]

Just a day a week with some scrap alts

Its alright

Alleria should die next time

[tribal blade]

hell yeah nice

hoping you get myth neck

[muted birch]

lot of haste on that one

but that effect is kinda weak in numbers, cosmetic almost

oh wait its a dot that can proc

[hazy breach]

Its like 0.5% or so

[tribal blade]

i have a hero one but it's very inconsistent

[muted birch]

btw if i have 73% mastery which is 994 rating

but haste drops to 557

[tribal blade]

sometimes will be ~0.5%ish, sometimes way less

[muted birch]

and crit is on 477, how fucked am I ?

thats unbuffed

[hazy breach]

Idk you'll do slightly less than if you had more haste

[muted birch]

could go more

with that trinket which i dubbed

poormans gaze

🤣

[violet palm]

Flask+Oils should be enough haste i think

[muted birch]

im actually considering prism not a good trinket for sub

damn i even ran with crusaders keepsake champ track and felt it gave me more

guess ill sim it

[keen steppe]

You evis the targets?

[tribal blade]

it depends, but usually nah

[fossil forge]

eviscing is so ahh

[quaint breach]

finally caught up to 1% cutoff, puglife

[fossil forge]

id rather press strike few times ..

[keen steppe]

I ask bcs only st feels not so great in prio damage

[muted birch]

Which talent would you drop to get tfd ?

pure theory

[small sleet]

A point in finality or the point in veiltouched (i think that’s what it’s called)

[fossil forge]

Veiltouched i think

[keen steppe]

Grats man

[muted birch]

15% critical damage bonus from 2 skills, our only tbh finishers

and 5% overall magic dmg fromk skill

logical

tho i have to sim it xD

but i guess it will boost only the 30%

bonus shadow damage

[small sleet]

Shadow blades is all shadow damage, and sectech is mostly shadow damage as well

[muted birch]

well it boosts magic damage overall

[tribal blade]

apex is also all shadow dmg

[muted birch]

sec tec and shadowblades are not commonly used

[tribal blade]

shadowed finishers also shadow

sub has quite a lot of shadow dmg atm

[small sleet]

The fact of the matter is, you’re gonna have a hard time making enough use of tfd to beat out either of those talent nodes

[muted birch]

yes yes i understand

tho there are some dungs

that imo will benefit me

[tribal blade]

i'm not using TFD atm in keys and doing a lot of overall

doesn't feel required

[muted birch]

funny, i could think of 1

its not for dmg increase

just to test, something fresh etc

i really sadden on thought we have 1 branch of talents and 2 nodes usefull

rest are underwhelming

[small sleet]

There’s almost always gonna be “best” talents for most of the specs in the game

[muted birch]

ok not worth it according to sims

xD

1k difference for tfd

dont want to spam here

otherwise would post

[tribal blade]

i've done a mix of TFD and no TFD keys and not noticed a meaningful diff

[hazy breach]

Around half of subs damage is shadow

[tribal blade]

the only meaningful diff i could find was playing TFD killed my mental in some keys

[muted birch]

mhm dully noted

ye not goint tfd

its not worth the hassler

and im not in any group for m+ yet

[tribal blade]

before TFD was way better than all the other options

now i think the other options are more equal

[muted birch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q1VyQJAoocgjZ5EAWFeDcd

sim shows mastery flask

[short radish]

what are we dropping for tfd?

finality?

[tribal blade]

VT or finality yeah

[muted birch]

nah

veil

with finality completly gone we lose more\

[short radish]

👍

[muted birch]

tho if you want to be sure

than give me a few moments, im in the mid of simming that actually

[short radish]

doing the weekly p*sh key night

[muted birch]

i start so good usually

and then comes the issue mid dung

welp

i got your answer sir

the difference is 200

sims show 164 802

without finality and tfd

and finality without tfd 165 057

[short radish]

👍

[tribal blade]

are you a filthy pusher

[short radish]

only on friday

[haughty mural]

FFP ?

[tribal blade]

i timed a 18 seat and pit with my guildie arms today

[haughty mural]

filthy friday pusher

[tribal blade]

i'm disgusting

[haughty mural]

the arms savior himself

[tribal blade]

HE IS

[haughty mural]

*the slayer arms savior to be precise

[muted birch]

i have tons of catching up to do

as im barealy on 13's

tho most of the time i spend wiating in Q

and doing preys for fun

[small sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-darkside-star-wars-evil-innerme-gif-12686883553708718330

[tribal blade]

TRUE

i have set this rule to not do high keys without this guildie though haha

[hazy breach]

Fwiw finality makes your crit damage go from 200% > 215%, so it's not actually 15% more damage on crits like you might think

[upbeat cradle]

That's huge, most tanks i end up with don't pull too big in Maisara

[hazy breach]

Its closer to half

[muted birch]

it is that flattened really ?

damn

[tribal blade]

during midnight beta i learnt that there's good crit dmg bonus and bad crit dmg bonus

and that PE and finality are the bad ones

[muted birch]

wait

now there is %* and it got a different meaning 😛 ye but its on critical damage bonus

[tribal blade]

oh did you think it was a flat % dmg on evis and bp?

yeah that would make that talent pretty cracked

or maybe not

[hazy breach]

One is critical strike bonus damage and one is critical strike damage, but still

[tribal blade]

nvm now i'm the one who misunderstood

[muted birch]

with 2x finality its overall 230% bonus damage when you cirt with evis

[tribal blade]

also i learnt today past 1 second of cloak does not work on this bullshit in the tunnels in pit

WE LOVE CLOAK "IMMUNITY"

[small sleet]

I don’t try to cloak one shots anymore man

I’ve been burned too many times this season

[muted birch]

ice chunk is immunity on elemental dmg

[hazy breach]

Ye because why the fuck would your magic immunity prevent magic damage

[muted birch]

you still get physical from thje fall 😛

[hazy breach]

You silly goose

[haughty mural]

could have told you

[small sleet]

Silence circle is spawning on 2nd boss mt “oh I’ll just cloak this and keep hitting”

[tribal blade]

it's happened so many times to me i could write a novel about it

[muted birch]

if iremember it was dual damage

but i may be wrong

[haughty mural]

the few rogue keys i did the last couple of weeks, that was the first thing to realize

[tribal blade]

I AM FAT AND STUPID

[haughty mural]

but my brain is getting zugzug from my warrior duty this season

[hazy breach]

Lots of other stuff isn't and goes through anyway

[muted birch]

ah yes

but i thought those were bugs

cloak ever since it was added

was basicly a "I dont give a fuck about this im gonna dps"

button

[tribal blade]

the first one that comes to memory was the necrotic wake spit on 1st boss

[short aurora]

Cloak is offensive cd

[tribal blade]

but i can't remember a season where cloak has been this inconsistent

it's crazy

[haughty mural]

lmao that one was horrible yes

[tribal blade]

wait could we evasion that too? am i high

i seriously can't remember

[alpine wraith]

yea

[small sleet]

Ye it was dodgeable

[tribal blade]

MMMM

[muted birch]

my raidlead back in legion always teased me about it

[tribal blade]

ok my memory is not kaput

[muted birch]

i got more attention on raids

and "tasks"

fond memories

[wheat edge]

cloak + evasion + feint + healthstone + healthpot + externals is the only way to live the smallest aoe ability in current season

[hazy breach]

Ye until you fucking die from shadow damage with cloak up standing in the circle

Immuning the runes on odyn in hov needed the 1s or it didn't work

Lots of people got confused about that one

[muted birch]

i know

died to it

XD

was like "huh"

[tribal blade]

write that down

press all defensives at once

got it

[wheat edge]

on arms warrior since I dont have tricks my first global in m+ is die by the sword

[muted birch]

i thought you dodge aoe ability by dodging the key/raid as a whole

[tribal blade]

i have PTSD from HoV

screw that dungeon

[haughty mural]

yes we could

[tribal blade]

also doing odyn with wheelchair sub during DF S1

was horrible

what was it, 1 step charge and 2 min sprint

or something

sub was so down bad on movement that season

[haughty mural]

for whatever reason it was dodgeable though

[tribal blade]

yeah blizz likes to make surprises with their damaging events lol

[haughty mural]

was DF S1 the bongo cat ?

[tribal blade]

iirc DF S1 was press everything on cd

[haughty mural]

ah yea

[tribal blade]

1 charge dance

[haughty mural]

1 charge dance

[muted birch]

didnt sub get 2nd charge in aberrus ?

[haughty mural]

had it before - wasnt worth it to take iirc

[tribal blade]

yeah we had the option but didn't take it

[muted birch]

ye thats what i say

[tribal blade]

i think

[muted birch]

diferently worded xD

they did change some talents

symbols im sure

there was something with symbols..

[tribal blade]

that was when sectec was double dipping on DB

[haughty mural]

good times

[tribal blade]

so sectec was doing so much of our overall

[haughty mural]

[tribal blade]

like it should be

[muted birch]

yup that was actually good

but in s1 tww

[tribal blade]

still not a fan of sectec not doing dmg anymore

[muted birch]

saying that sub wasnt a beast

is lieing

esp. in deathstalker on st fights xd

[haughty mural]

was prettys good in raid in s1

[tribal blade]

TWW was overall a pretty good expac for sub

minus some hiccups

[haughty mural]

bp was just noodle for sub in s1

then they buffed bp by 10000000000% going into s2

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that was before they realized they could actually tune BP lol

wasn't the first buff like something stupid like 30%

[muted birch]

ofc its normal

but I made an alt

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gtXkCdAfqz6xbj8Q?fight=30&type=damage-done

barealy geared

[haughty mural]

30% at first, following by another buff or smth

[muted birch]

that was my learning character 🤣

and when in doubt, roll another rogue

tww was such a fun time with sub

being what it used to be

[slate marlin]

Best tuning moment for sub was the memes of us complaining about getting the buffs

Bc deathstalker bad

[muted birch]

actually deathstalker was workin really well

since sub did have options to switch targets

[muted birch]

ye that tech

in which you have to shuriken

to boost dmg was funny

wasnt it the time before they fixed trickster

since it was buggy as hell ?

[tribal blade]

honestly can't remember

might have been

everyone was just pissed that they buffed DS enough to be better than trickster

that's back when playing DS as sub was omega cursed

[muted birch]

yup thats the log i posted

from that exact time

😂

[tribal blade]

oh nice

[muted birch]

but in all honesty

it was op

[hazy breach]

Tbf that's still the case right now

[muted birch]

603 i was ilvl on that alt ?

[hazy breach]

[muted birch]

i outdpsed fully geared hunter

[tribal blade]

it is! funnily enough everyone STILL refuses to play DS haha

on the fights where people are actually using DS it's like 1%

and 99% trickster

[small sleet]

It’s a pain in the ass to get 1100 haste is the main reason I’m not playing any ds fights

[tribal blade]

there's that 1 good DS parse on lura

[tribal blade]

very true

[hazy breach]

Ofc it's annoying, but it sims like 4-5% better

[muted birch]

umm

[tribal blade]

i could actually get enough haste

[muted birch]

actually i do have 1100

xD

[tribal blade]

i should test it out

[muted birch]

but i miss a lot

in crit/mastery departmen

[short radish]

im glad im included in this

[tribal blade]

you will yeah having that much haste

[tribal blade]

i'm in there 2 times 😉

but yeah a lot of us yappers are in there lol

[muted birch]

i only watched this talk

wanted to write "Deathstalker goes brrrr"

but thought otherwise

ofc with the monster meme theme

[tribal blade]

i looked at lura boss dmg and the DS guy gapped all the trickster

i think it's subti

[weary tree]

i played it a little bit on lura just before the cloud cover became a thing and then abandoned it since trickster became so much better again

Might give it a try at lura

[muted birch]

btw we dont play cloud cover y?

[weary tree]

Nope

Old news

[muted birch]

after they switched it back to 2 fazed

[tribal blade]

they nerfed it and buffed scruples

[muted birch]

instead of 3

[tribal blade]

that's only for outlaw not sub

[muted birch]

oh

[tribal blade]

but it now only lasts 12 seconds instead of 20

[muted birch]

yeah..

[weary tree]

And that doesnt fully cover blades 🤷

[frosty axle]

so we still do or dont

[tribal blade]

yeah weird decision

by blizz

[weary tree]

no

[muted birch]

they fear sub will top their new child

but i dont think devourer is in our reach

in terms of pure siming

[hazy breach]

But no 3x surprising strikes

[weary tree]

You cant hope to sim the same as a new spec

They always put them high up

[muted birch]

yup

thats why we always add another factor

which is - human factor

xD

they still have hunter in their class name

[small sleet]

Devourer wishes they could do as much as us

[muted birch]

i need to keep track of my trinkets

i think ill add a sound when its ready

tho in raid enviroment i find it really bothersome

to use puzzlebox

[tribal blade]

not really necessary to have a sound alert for trinket ready

tbh

[muted birch]

this is my ui btw

dont know what to keep track off

[tribal blade]

noice

[muted birch]

its clean and well

i see what i need to see

but maybe i need to do somethbing with trinket position

[tribal blade]

i really like sound alerts though, i have one for apex refunds

which was kinda annoying at first but i'm used to it now

[muted birch]

i have one when im not in melee range

chicken sound xD

[weary tree]

idk why my eyes deceive me, but it just feels like it's not centered lol

It probably is

[tribal blade]

lol interesting

[muted birch]

coz it might not be centered

now that you pointed it out

i also see it

xD

[weary tree]

xd

Sorry i ruined it

[tribal blade]

lol it's not centered you're right

can see based on the character

[muted birch]

yup

[tribal blade]

dw my UI is more cursed than yours

[muted birch]

my outlaw is...

[weary tree]

I didnt spend that much time on the UI either

Just made it functional

[muted birch]

the 4 grayed out

are fuckin it up

noticed that it always happens when i get apex proc

and reroll or enter stealth

in sub i dont have any issue, here its constant lua error bonanza

didnt touch asa at all

[cursive tundra]

can someone explain why is outlaw considered better for keys than sub?

i honestly can't see it

i pretty much do the same on packs

and I do like 20% more on ST bosses

[muted birch]

he's stable

in terms of aoe

cleave etc

[cursive tundra]

is this something like "have an entire comp play around you and it's better"?

yeah but you need the entire physical comp and the tank to play on your hand

[muted birch]

and they can spike out of thin air

[cursive tundra]

and then you have the entire casino feeling

[muted birch]

tbh i played in many comps

[cursive tundra]

i usually play the entire dungeon with 1s and 2s rolled

[muted birch]

other then me actually not being quite uised to the game after break

but i could go bonkers

[lilac stag]

If your getting ones you’re doing something wrong

[muted birch]

you're rerolling either at bat moment

[cursive tundra]

do explain

[muted birch]

or not using loaded dice

you have 2s, from what I got to know tooday

its not optimal to reroll on 2s unless you have loaded dice

[cursive tundra]

i never waste loaded dice, but there are moments where AR is like 30 seconds away

[muted birch]

so you wont get lower

[cursive tundra]

my RTB runs out

no prep

no loaded dice

I roll

i always get 1

i never reroll a 2

[muted birch]

reroll another time

[cursive tundra]

but i cannot farm back AR every single time

[muted birch]

just spam skills thats all ;p

[lilac stag]

AR into roll is 2

[muted birch]

tho ye

i kinda was in that situation

but what talents

are you using

sleight hand taken on the right branch of talnets ?

[weary tree]

Go back to outlaw

shoo

[lilac stag]

so again you’re just playing aspects of it wrong and falling behind and not keeping things cycling to keep rolls at 2+. Ask for help in #outlaw

[muted birch]

wanna know somethning funny

[acoustic lodge]

Sub is life. That is all

[muted birch]

i didnt read the text on recplicating shadows talents

i didnt even notice at start we lost rupture

and i didnt take the talent xD

[weary tree]

Nice

I sometimes dont read talents either

[muted birch]

well it was on the bar

[weary tree]

But thats mostly on my alts xd

[muted birch]

coz i had macro

for rupture

xD

bamboozled myself

but yeah first 2 days were kinda hnard

leveled fast sure, but then stoped playing for 2 days

too much at one moment and i got overwhelmed

last 3 levels i was sub

and it went like cake

but overall, my ui on every sub rogue i have or had

was clean af

[weary tree]

Just not centered

[muted birch]

for outlaw i had wa that played "you're a pirate" song when all buffs poped

[muted birch]

was about to add that

[weary tree]

hehe

[weary tree]

good ol weakaura days

[muted birch]

i miss them

I like rogues

xD

I know, loss of words

xD

[hazy breach]

Because the people playing the highest key are onetricking outlaw, thus outlaw must be better

That's all the logic there is to it, Zac himself has even said he thinks sub is better a lot of the time

[weary tree]

dw my gf has a character for every single spec in the game. Sometimes even 2

[muted birch]

nice

;D

i tried warrior and paladin

both in tank

untill they introduced m+ it was a nice breather and something else

I didnt want to become toxic

so i dont tank, paladin got leveled by accident

through crafting

[muted birch]

He said that ?

[hazy breach]

Several times yes

[small sleet]

Outlaw and sub are close enough at this point that there’s probably outlaw favored keys and sub favored keys, but they both realistically work in every key totally fine

[muted birch]

in sims, asassin is way out

[small sleet]

Assa is totally fine too for keys

[muted birch]

btw

[small sleet]

All 3 rogue specs are playable in any key level

[muted birch]

does any of you have same issue - when I invite a party to key

it delists my grp

[hazy breach]

Yep just play what you enjoy the most

[muted birch]

and that gentlemans is the key to success

its a game

lets have fun i it

[vocal shuttle]

thing is i enjoy outlaw more but im ass at it and in keys i get better results with sub since its kinda simpler, not even a slight difference just whole ass 30k-40k dps overall difference so idk

[cursive tundra]

this is exactly my situation

but in 19s i get called out

for playing sub instead of outlaw

even tho I do really good dmg in sub

and it just pisses me off

[small sleet]

I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone say anything about me playing sub

[cursive tundra]

even big streamers, like in Seat. they just tp out before last boss to swap to sub cause outlaw has abysmal damage in burn phases

[old lynx]

god i hate using puzzlebox

y tf is there a cast time on this shit 😡😡😡

[small sleet]

Get guidon and free yourself from it

[vocal shuttle]

yeah i mained pvp all the way and now that im actually doing keys on rogue i tried outlaw since it simmed higher and god dayum i gotta get used to it

tbh i do like sim damage both on st and aoe on the dummys but then i get into a key and i blow so bad

[old lynx]

i dont like staring at a WA the entire key so i swapped from OL lol maybe its my old age

[shrewd lantern]

wa got axed

[old lynx]

cd manager whatever theyre calling it

[shrewd lantern]

after you practice a spec enough you just press things

without looking really

[muted birch]

muscle memory

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

[left ledge]

eventually you stop knowing what you're doing

[shrewd lantern]

i dont actually look at my cdm

for sub most of the time

atp i probably 90% just pay attention to my dance duration and combo pts

[surreal orbit]

sim wrong

sim say voidforged trinket worse than non xD

[shrewd lantern]

and energy is a fake resource most of the time

[muted birch]

what color would you pick for trinket glo ?

glow*

default is yellow

cant get any color in head that actually would stand out for me to notice

since after some thinking i took somones advice and gave up on seting sound when trink comes of cd

why did they have to get rid of weak auras...

[hazy breach]

Idk depends on which ones are you comparing

[surreal orbit]

the same trinket one is just higher ilvl from voidforge

[hazy breach]

Probably dslice sim then I'd inagine

[surreal orbit]

patch

[small sleet]

Link it

[surreal orbit]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2UWxmKMye2vxQoPppsPy5Q

[hazy breach]

Sim nightly or latest instead, was a small issue with puzzlebox being used in different slots

[surreal orbit]

forgot you could even forge hero track stuff

might as well since im guidonless

[muted birch]

btw, whats the deal with same trinkets showin different dps values depending on their respectfull slot

[hazy breach]

They dont though?

Unless you're talking about them being like 10 or whatever different, that is within margin of error

[surreal orbit]

heres my mog as thanks for figuring that out

[sullen hare]

Incredibly purple. Well done

[surreal orbit]

🟣

[undone cliff]

What are you using so I can flatter you by stealing it lol

[surreal orbit]

mostly heroic doomblade with void elf chest and clefthoof hide mask

void edge illusions

and Heartsbane Grimoire for the extra darkness effect

[fossil forge]

das lowkey fire gng 🔥

[surreal orbit]

look good play good

[fossil forge]

i got ts on too fr

[unborn vault]

i dont like the middle part

i mean chest lol

[surreal orbit]

are

are those baguettes

[muted birch]

nice one

[autumn lake]

a French rouge

[muted birch]

i guess you went hc coz of the golden elements y ?

[fossil forge]

thats my law tmog

:D

[surreal orbit]

yeah pretty much

[fossil forge]

i am not french though

[muted birch]

pretty neat

[maiden lynx]

Brink were you on Pika’s stream when he was saying to stop giving you PI?

[muted birch]

nothing flashy, mostly hfc set with shattered arathor sword, nice green glow

and the best item in game - mask of afrtful dodging

[shrewd lantern]

tabard dont match

also fullset

[fossil forge]

the tmog police

[muted birch]

full set ?

wrist are different

and tabrd stays

[muted birch]

actually i dont have any good tmog on main xD mostly on alts since i had the time to make them look

that and i think after the transmog overhaul

i lost some of them

[fossil forge]

me neither bossman

kinda homeless with the tmog department

[muted birch]

oi

the baguete

was neat

[fossil forge]

perfection though

[shrewd lantern]

idk whats special ab the tabard

i guess its an unc badge

[fossil forge]

the baguettes were from trading post

[muted birch]

i wanted to make transmog on kultiran

a villager with fishes from asterix

but cant find fishes to transmog

and dont have fat kultiran ytet

yet*

I would go arenas the same instant i would get that transmog xD

[rare kite]

I’ve got a question as one that is a bit newer to sub rogue. When it comes to trinkets, the one i see repeatedly is the light company guidon. I’ve been using the puzzlebox as of per now and from my sims, puzzle box seems to sim higher. Yet i find that when competing with people using the light guidon i can’t reach quite the same height. Might be a skill issue, but how come the light guidon seem better in practice?

[muted birch]

the issue is, puzzle box got 2min cds

so we treat it like a 3min trinket

so we have it on opener

2nd burst window we're without trinket

and it comes back at 3rd damage window

and guidon is exactly 90s cd

which sync's with shadow blades cd

hopefully this answers your question, I could have write it better tho

[rare kite]

Yeah, i’ve been confused at this as sims say i lose dmg with light guidon. But it seems my sim belief in this one has been also my demise

[muted birch]

Guidon gives ton of haste aside from idealy aligning with cds

[rare kite]

Crazy opener damage with the puzzlebox, but i’ll farm the guidon if it supplies better overall output

[muted birch]

more haste = longer damage window

faster cds

[frosty bramble]

It’s also probably your stats

[muted birch]

besides, if I got it right

you need roughly 700 haste

with guidon

[rare kite]

Might be, currently got 32% crit 19% haste and 54% mastery

[muted birch]

or 800 without it

[muted birch]

single target

or m+ ?

[small sleet]

Are you simming single target or dslice

[rare kite]

Single target is what i’ve been simming

[frosty bramble]

I have about 30 crit/21 haste and 75 mast in ST

[muted birch]

and now answer friend above you question

check what you sim, is it patchwerk or dungeon slice

[rare kite]

Don’t have the exact amount numbers on the secondaries

[plush roost]

If you have 700 haste equipped the sim tends to like box more

[rare kite]

Ya, ok, i’ll try simming again. Big dumdum here lmao

[plush roost]

Cause it can inhuman input spells

[rare kite]

Big thanks for the help all!

[shrewd lantern]

As long as you hit 700 haste the other stats dont matter