subtlety

[lilac stag]

quicksims are literally 1 interation and you should not be following the sample sequence it generates

which should be stated in the sample sequence

[outer orchid]

doesnt it tell you not to play based on the sim

yeah

[serene notch]

some informed me today that you can look at what the APL recommends today so i took it for face value never looked at it before today. But its obviously not a fun topic, I am likely making some mistake, and thats cool. i will drop it.

[hollow spear]

I have the sim open on my 2nd screen and follow what it says

[tribal blade]

hello friends

[chrome fern]

"This is a sample of 1 iteration, it is not a guide on how to play your character. Analyze with care."

[lilac stag]

people same wrong information all the time, just look at @short radish it's his specialty

[short radish]

??????????

[tribal blade]

damn

that's cold

[outer orchid]

TRUE

ANY TRUERS

[short radish]

i never spread misinformation

except when i do it on purpose

[lilac stag]

https://klipy.com/gifs/we-do-a-little-trolling-misinformation--k01KRN0NTGJ5TN6FF61WW162MRE

[tribal blade]

fair dinkum m8

[outer orchid]

[warm marlin]

hard not to when you’re upside down

[outer orchid]

[chrome fern]

"Why does my sim seem to stop at like 600-650 haste instead of 650-700 like the guides say?,
Because you are (hopefully) a human playing the game on a server you are likely to have a few milliseconds of delay here and there, whereas the sim does not. Therefore its usually better to have some additional leeway that the robot does not need. "

just a few of the anti sim warnings

<#

[short radish]

mate all i'm asking is a fair shake of the sauce bottle

[tribal blade]

this is new slang i'm learning

[outer orchid]

what do either of those phrases mean

[short radish]

yeah it's a good one

[chrome fern]

#Kevin07

[lilac stag]

dingo ate his baby

[outer orchid]

oh no!

[tribal blade]

oh she's a top sheila that one

[short radish]

never forget.

dude was robbed.

[short radish]

fair shake of the sauce bottle = give a fair go

[tribal blade]

better dodge them anklebiters

[chrome fern]

yeah if you don't shake the sauce bottle, you get tomato piss

[short radish]

yeah and you dont want tomato piss on your pies/sausages

[tribal blade]

fish and chips top 10 food for me

[lilac stag]

@serene notch all the information in the and has painstakenly been put together to be as accurate as possible. so when some rando says you can't do this or look at that, especially if it's going against EVERYTHING listed in this channel. They're either very confused or just misinformed.

[chrome fern]

tomato sauce on pies / sausages

tomato piss on pies / sausages

[short radish]

[drifting ether]

I don’t use puzzle for raids but in a m+ when I do use it I do that opener if I want to extend out my damage past sb or I do the st optimization to line up my next sb window better

[hollow spear]

When I'm back from vacation I might chuck a sickie

[outer orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[chrome fern]

my fav is "not here to fuck spiders"

[outer orchid]

WHAT

[short radish]

yeah i love doing that one to whispyr

always fun to freak him out about australia

[short radish]

well think about it right

we're not here to fuck spiders

[chrome fern]

so, say you turn up to a party, and someone asks "do you want a beer?" when the entire reason you have gone to a party is for beer drinking. i must ask you, are you there to fuck spiders or to drink beer?

[outer orchid]

i mean

when WOULD you be

[short radish]

that's not important

what is important is that at this current time

we're not here to fuck spiders

[outer orchid]

fair

i like it

[warm marlin]

what if she bad though

[outer orchid]

i wish more "vulgar/profane language" was more common in the states

not like crazy slurs or anything

[chrome fern]

whoops

[outer orchid]

but like common swearing

why is it so frowned on

[chrome fern]

moroes deleted that one

hahahaha

[short radish]

only in that one lotr game where shelob is big goth mommy

[short radish]

hate it when that happens

[chrome fern]

tight as a n's c

[short radish]

then koffing tells me off

[chrome fern]

was what i tried to say

[short radish]

or laughs at me

[outer orchid]

shadow of war

yunoball

[short radish]

yeah that one

[chrome fern]

do the rest of the world use a bee's dick as a form of measurement?

[short radish]

typically asian countries do as well

okay that was a bad joke, i apologise

unrelated did you know that most of the world doesnt go "hip hip hooray" x3 after singing happy birthday

or at least americans dont

[tribal blade]

I'M OFFENDED

(but not really)

[short radish]

friendly fired myself as well

[outer orchid]

yeah at least in my experience its not common at all

to say that afterwards

[tribal blade]

damn lol

wait you're not asian are you

[chrome fern]

technically we are australasian

so we are asian

[short radish]

i am a banana

[tribal blade]

SHEEEEESH

me too

well i am half and half

[short radish]

im full banana

[tribal blade]

i look more white

but i had the classic asian parent upbringing

[short radish]

born australia but parents spoke teochew/hokkien at home (because migrated from sg), got sent to chinese school to learn mandarin but then whenever we go out for dinner with cousins/aunty/uncle they spoke canto

so i just gave up and learnt english because they also made me speak english at home

[tribal blade]

curry powdehhhhhh

[shrewd lantern]

"hong kong people just speak canto with random english swears thrown in"

which is

[short radish]

yeah i look very chinese.

[shrewd lantern]

partly true

[short radish]

my eyes are hella squinty

[tribal blade]

lol true

[short radish]

actual wide screen vision here

[tribal blade]

called chinglish

[shrewd lantern]

i mean technically monolids are least prevalent for chinese

its koreans that have it the most

[shrewd lantern]

Me explaining hong kong terms for ethnic groups to an american

spoiler: most are offensive

[tribal blade]

diuuuuuu

[shrewd lantern]

no im talking shit like referring to indians as achaa

[chrome fern]

i am struggling to think of additions to these comments that won't straight up get me banned

[tribal blade]

oh right lol

yeah hong kongers are pretty racist towards anyone with dark skin ngl

[short radish]

isn't that just asians in general

[tribal blade]

lol yes

[shrewd lantern]

well

east

[short radish]

i joke with my white friends that 'you guys may be causal racists but we're competitive"

[shrewd lantern]

i mean we're racist towards one another

with the same tone

[chrome fern]

dude i saw something the other day, about how every asian country hates vietnamese

crazy work

[tribal blade]

yeah i think westerners don't really understand how engrained it is in asian culture

[shrewd lantern]

its classism

effectively

[short radish]

speaking of you might have heard this

you know that goldman sachs sexual harassment case

in the news recently

[tribal blade]

uh yes

[shrewd lantern]

also like

[short radish]

that turned out to be fake

[tribal blade]

the guy who accused the boss

yeah

[shrewd lantern]

never refer to my japanese friend as an "island korean"

they get so mad

[short radish]

yeah okay so white people wouldn't have understood this

[tribal blade]

omfg his direct quote about his wife

[short radish]

but there was a super big obvious tell

that it was fake

and he was making it up

[chrome fern]

like, in australia, we are casually racist, in the sense that we (most) don't mean what we say, we say it cause like edgy humor ig, but some of the shit that was said about vietnamese was intense

[tribal blade]

his looks?

[short radish]

no

[tribal blade]

hit me

[short radish]

the fact that he referred to himself and his wife as asian

[shrewd lantern]

ngl some of the most wild shit i hear

is japanese to okinawans

[tribal blade]

MMM true

[short radish]

as a competitive racist, the majority of the "default" asians aka chinese/korean/sea/japanese don't really refer to indians as asian

[warm marlin]

damn she was bad..

[short radish]

they just refer to them as indian

even though india is technically asian

[shrewd lantern]

i mean....

even most westerners dont

think of indians as

[chrome fern]

where does europe become asia anyway

[short radish]

well yeah that also

[tribal blade]

that's very true yeah

or they will say as "south asians"

[short radish]

but idk at least for me that was my "wait a minute this isn't quite right"

[chrome fern]

is russia european or asian?

[shrewd lantern]

its always "they look young and dont have hair"

yeah this doesnt apply to indians

at all

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-por-que-no-gif-23322568

[tribal blade]

that's a weird one

i think it's technically part of asia

iirc

[shrewd lantern]

russia is both

pre sure

[tribal blade]

depends where exactly in russia you are

[short radish]

do the rest of the world call banh mi as dog rolls?

or is that only australian

[chrome fern]

y'all so poor for continenets you put 2 continents on 1 continent, meanwhile we down here put one continent on an island

[shrewd lantern]

yeah if you're not referring to moscow

[tribal blade]

i had a russian piano teacher (typical asian upbringing) who looked completely asian

[shrewd lantern]

some are in asia

[tribal blade]

but spoke in a deadpan russian accent

[shrewd lantern]

"my name vladimir i drink vodka and beat my wife"

[chrome fern]

never heard of a dog roll

[shrewd lantern]

I remember when grok came out with a translate feature

people were surprised japan can be offensive as shit

yeah.....

[chrome fern]

idk why people would be surprised

[shrewd lantern]

Because weaboo fucks

glaze japan as a utopia

or sum shit

[chrome fern]

languages are still languages

[short radish]

yeah... okay maybe this is an adelaide thing

[shrewd lantern]

I think people dont understand

anti confrontational culture

[chrome fern]

lol, i mean we have alot of viet places up here in brisbane, so it's just bahn mi

[shrewd lantern]

i just call banh mi taking an otherwise mid french sandiwch

and making it better

[short radish]

i think that's what the viets call it it as well

[shrewd lantern]

effectively this

[chrome fern]

i think the biggest culture shock i would have going overseas to like america or uk. would be that they likely don't have thai / japanese / viet restraunts dominating uber eats

[shrewd lantern]

People think it ends at

calling food spicy

or "european spicy"

[short radish]

wait they don't?

[chrome fern]

idk, but i feel like they wont

i've seen videos comparing like wallmart and shit, and like the asian fusion sections dont exist

[short radish]

yeah idk how the dog roll thing started as well. We've had a pretty big viet population in adelaide for ages

[shrewd lantern]

thai and chinese is pretty common takeout in america

well not chinese on ubereats

[short radish]

but then the banh mi roll craze took off in the early 2010s(?)

and a ton of places were opening everywhere else

[shrewd lantern]

most of the takeouts are run by old people who cant use tech

and are probably cash only for tax evasion

[short radish]

and then i randomly hear someone in the office "getting a dog roll for lunch"

[shrewd lantern]

the second i see a chinese place offer vegan options

i know the food sucks

[chrome fern]

not necessarilly that they can't be common, but like my local uber eats selection, is maybe out of 20 restraunts, 10+ are asian themed

[shrewd lantern]

i'd say for thai its still applicable

most too broke for japanese

whatever you do don' t eat the slop england calls chinese food

that shit is vile

[chrome fern]

i wanna try the american looking chinese food

as far as ive found, i haven't come across a noodle box kinda thing like they always have in TV

[languid finch]

it's a shithole so who cares

[shrewd lantern]

doesnt sound as bad as the uk

[shrewd lantern]

Oh those are less common nowadays

still exists in some

[short radish]

bro i saw their chinese snack box or w/e it's called

and went what teh flying fuck

[shrewd lantern]

That type of establishment is likely going to die in 20-30 years.

[sturdy mesa]

if i use the voidcore in a 1/6 weapon dont need upgrade with crests?

[shrewd lantern]

When the last few's parents reach retirement age

no you still need to send crests

[chrome fern]

i should clarify, i don't mean in the box specifically, but rather what is in the box, we have noodle box here (literally name of a chain) but in the tv shows the type of food in them is just different

[short radish]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/wow-players-just-found-a-way-to-save-240-myth-crests-with-voidcores/

[shrewd lantern]

oh maybe

dont get boneless ribs though

fake title

[chrome fern]

it's like a dry-ish looking food with small noodles

kinda like rice, but not rice

[foggy estuary]

Bento box?

[chrome fern]

all our stuff here is just 50km long noodles drowned in sauce

[short radish]

no

thats japanese

[chrome fern]

XD

make UK is just like "china / japan, same thing"

[short radish]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualUK/comments/139ie3x/munchy_box_from_the_local_chinese_takeaway/

this shit

[foggy estuary]

Ugh

[shrewd lantern]

this only works if you had low gear

[short radish]

i mean like

fried food good and tasty

and im sure its not bad

[shrewd lantern]

also i realized something

[short radish]

but also what the fuck

[chrome fern]

looks like they just tried to fusian chinese and fish and chips

[shrewd lantern]

i sent my daggers with voidcores to 298 and 295

now i can upgrade an outlaw mace to 289 free

[west tide]

sub is sooo good on lura omgg

[shrewd lantern]

and core it

[chrome fern]

waht they forgot, is that the asian part of fish and chips is just the store owners

[short radish]

i despise fusion so much holy shit

[shrewd lantern]

the fuck is this

i swear germany bombed the taste buds out of the uk

insane

[foggy estuary]

It looks like something i would eat drunk at 5 in the morning if i was a student again😂

[short radish]

went to this place that did a fusion siu mai, instead of putting the crab roe on the top they put sweet and sour chili sauce

and then had some deconstructed spring rolls as well

actual criminal

it was some lunar new year yum cha special

never again.

[shrewd lantern]

going to be honest

if a chinese place gives me a fork first

im walking out

[chrome fern]

looking at that image, i see, american ribs, indian curry puffs, potato scallops, prawn toast, spring rolls. no idea what those battered balls are

[short radish]

im gonna assume deep fried dumplings

might also be prawns though

[shrewd lantern]

everytime i see uk food

it looks like war rations

[chrome fern]

so the trick with fusion, is to not call yourself / try to be fusion, kinda like how the dim sim is goated, but also not at all asian

[shrewd lantern]

somehow that country produced gordan ramsey

[short radish]

yeah true good point. anywhere advertising as fusion

is gonna be shit

[shrewd lantern]

actual miracle

[shrewd lantern]

peruvian chinese

[short radish]

beans and toast

[shrewd lantern]

good example

[chrome fern]

unironically true though they developed comfort food in war, and never developed it again

[shrewd lantern]

yeah but then you have struggle food like korean army stew

which actually tastes good

[chrome fern]

now i have not had korean army stew, but how do i know it tastes any better than beans on toast

cause beans on toast is kinda good

[short radish]

you know what's not kinda good?

beans on rice

my parents would do that sometimes (still do it now)

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[chrome fern]

i'm still yet to find a better breakfast than english breakfast

[short radish]

good morning fuu

[foggy estuary]

Gm gm

[short radish]

oh yeah english breakfast kinda goated

[foggy estuary]

Okonomiyaki says hello?

[short radish]

okonomiyaki isn't a breakfast

and english breakfast > okonomiyaki anyway

[foggy estuary]

It is? It literally is leftovers for breakfast

[chrome fern]

bubble and squeak

[shrewd lantern]

how did society decide

to make breakfast a dessert hour

[chrome fern]

sugar

[short radish]

i mean i guess anything is breakfast

if you put your mind to it

just like you can have an english breakfast for lunch or dinner

wake up sheeples

do not let society constrain you

[foggy estuary]

Breakfast is the first dish that breaks the fast, doesnt have to be the morning one. I break my fast at 16:00 normally. So my breakfast is that :p

[chrome fern]

everything is breakfast

the only thing that changes is the duration of the fast

[shrewd lantern]

I make smoothie bowls so thick

it looks like i destroyed my toilet

[foggy estuary]

Itnermittent fasting + carb loading = big deadlifts 💪

Tren also but ok 🫠😂

[chrome fern]

tren? you must have small panice

sorry 🙂

[foggy estuary]

Thats a fallacy, only balls shrink 😂

No no its cool bruv. Im not competing anymore haha

[chrome fern]

to quote rich piana "Ball shrinking is a good thing"

[foggy estuary]

Hahaha aware 😂

[chilly dagger]

Only on wcl hahahaha

[foggy estuary]

Wcl?👀

[drifting ether]

lets go

[alpine wraith]

we randomly killed bird yday

oh boi p1 wipe factory online on monday

[placid pivot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

Bird got nerfed hard

P2 is so long now

In deep farm might be the play to just play one phase

[vale pine]

nicu

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-needs-to-bring-a-real-raid-buff/2304579 hey guys, just a reminder to hit this with a like if you can

the conquest continues

[foggy estuary]

Carrying the good fight

[hallow mortar]

Sadge

[tribal blade]

i'm hoping it finally happens

and we get a reworked raid buff

[foggy estuary]

Maybe next expac, the zero representation in raids and difficult in m+ inclusion might be enough to get dev/pm attention

Wouldnt hold my breath tho brother 🥲

Unless we get massive inflow if new rogue players.

Which wont happen because no fix/buffs 😂

Purgatory sentence 🫠

[tribal blade]

the big thing is it's now become a known issue outside of just rogue circles

this last RWF shone a light on it

[foggy estuary]

Yeah rwf helps our case

[tribal blade]

also a lot of rogues have been sat this tier in their respective guilds

really good rogues too

feels like maybe this could finally be it, but who knows you're right

[foggy estuary]

But since next raids are already in ptr, i doubt we see anything before other expac, no?

Like i wish, but knowing how dev lifecycle works, i doubt it

Especially with how buggy last patches were

[void ocean]

i mean bar the raid buff id still like for rogues to do competitive dmg, imho worse than being benched is being brought to raid just because of the buff, like "fiiine we will get one"

gonna feel like DEI hire

[foggy estuary]

Yeah but if you are auto included in a raid they will pay attention to damage at some point eventually anw no? And we are a pure dps spec, we should have at least one spec S tier for raid or m+ this should have been a given

[void ocean]

yea, one would think... not blizz tho 😄

i mean thats how it goes for the rest of 3-dps classes

[foggy estuary]

Claude AI doesnt like rogue 🙁

[void ocean]

but not always for us

[foggy estuary]

Exactly

Even a grip would help

So we can share a spot with dks 🫠

[void ocean]

dont give em ideas

[foggy estuary]

“Get over here” intensifies🫠

[void ocean]

hated going around pullin shit

as a dk

while others pump

[foggy estuary]

Yeah, but dk pumps regardless :p

But grp feels alittle like DEI as well 🙃

[void ocean]

im wondering how possible is to even kill Chima Mythic without dkgrip

[weary tree]

Depends if you can interrupt well

[foggy estuary]

Shadowstep cloak kick

😂

[weary tree]

If you have enough ranged im sure it is possible

[vast echo]

is there any way using advanced sim to make it prio 700 haste?

[void ocean]

well ye but u also gotta burn em down which means either rangers gotta burn em down or u gotta do some weird movement

[mortal arch]

they move when they're locked out

[void ocean]

i guess it becomes a bit dodgy

[foggy estuary]

Gief insta kick with shadowstep in talents?👀

[void ocean]

or ranged kick

like dk

god dk has everything 😄

[foggy estuary]

Big sad

[void ocean]

its funny how one class just has the same thing but just way better

[foggy estuary]

We are the temu version, is good

[void ocean]

like dk kick better than ours, ams better than cloak

[mortal arch]

I mean 8 second kidney is very underrated on those casters

[void ocean]

ye bu then it wont move at all

[mortal arch]

kick > move it > stun it > kill it

[void ocean]

plug it, play it, burn it, rip it... 😄

[foggy estuary]

Pls aoe kidney shot with shadow clones in talents

[frosty sinew]

You can disable weapon oils and it will want a bit more haste that way

[void ocean]

yea but in my experience it wont be enough

cause u kinda need to go under 600

so it starts choosing haste items

at that point u gotta ask yourself what r u even simming

[weary tree]

Haven't simmed in a while

Just get 700 haste and just get crit/mastery items and youre good

[void ocean]

yea, basically get 700 haste and u can sim for other stats e.g. if u wanna replace crit heavy item for mastery heavy item (while keeping haste around 700)

[hollow spear]

That's where you see the diffy between rwf and mediocre raiders like me. We always bring at least one rogue.

[keen dome]

Why not six

I think you would benefit from six rogues

[tribal blade]

hehe i'm also in a mediocre raid guild, but wasn't completely immune to the bench this tier sadly

but yeah it's definitely not as bad if you're not in a high world rank guild

[keen dome]

We need a rogue tank and healer spec so we can make a rogue only raid group

[tribal blade]

but what liquid did with their roster trickled down

[keen dome]

It always will. It's impossible to mitigate social perception even if 90% of people will miss the actual why of something

[tribal blade]

rogue only group stealth through an entire dungeon

rogue also needs to have 1 more piece of utility, shroud isn't enough

[keen dome]

Raid buff

[tribal blade]

RAID BUFF WOULD BE LIT

actually with a raid buff rogue would be ok utility wise

how about make shiv amplify atrophic or numbing too

oh that would become cursed actually probably

[sharp seal]

Omg, we were discussing Lura fight and roles yesterday… 1,5hrs…
They said we are taking addons away but bosses will be easier

[tribal blade]

lol yeah

one of the hardest RWF end bosses ever made

[weary tree]

take addons away

Yeah good luck

[tribal blade]

take addons away and then make memory game

gg

[weary tree]

Id take away your guilds leadership

[tribal blade]

which was solved with addons

[peak ice]

🏄‍♂️ what’s up gamers 🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♂️

[tribal blade]

rogues are getting massive Ws

-mafic

[peak ice]

Did I miss something

[muted birch]

Funny, rogues used to be one od the most popular Claas to play

[void ocean]

ye we got a raid buff, instantly solving memory games in the future

[muted birch]

If to trust the recent numbers, we"re in decline

[void ocean]

by recent u mean 10 years, right 😄

[tribal blade]

we've been the least played class for quite a while now

[muted birch]

Welp

[peak ice]

Isn’t dragon less

Evoker

[muted birch]

Didnt want to sound too grim

[tribal blade]

nah i just posted my wow forum PTR post again lol

[peak ice]

Oh true

[muted birch]

I think i saw it

[tribal blade]

that kind of "doesn't count" because they're a very new class

[upbeat cradle]

Ye but dragons are less played because drakthyr are

[void ocean]

i mean Id argue we've never been fotm and being fotm is what brings new players mostly imho, sure most of them reroll once u r not fotm but some might stay... But without being fotm u r just left with die hard rogues who made their rogue in tbc probably 😄

[muted birch]

We used to have aura buff

[tribal blade]

huge!

[muted birch]

In legion

But i do agree with you

[trim lake]

in M+ there are 414k Aug evoker parses alone, theres like 350k rouges entirely. Not the best way to judge but, best I can do in sub 1 min

[tribal blade]

last time rogue was fotm was S2 SL

at least in keys

[upbeat cradle]

Legion sub was one of my fav period

[muted birch]

Legion was fun

Period

[void ocean]

yea in raid i wouldnt call it fotm... u for sure werent fotm if u didnt have EoN (like me)

[foggy estuary]

This

[lucid jackal]

last time rogue was fun was yesterday!

[tribal blade]

TRUE rogue is fun

[foggy estuary]

Legion was best expac in general but the last it felt rogue is bis, actually

[tribal blade]

i did some 18s with a guildie today for fun

had a blast

[muted birch]

Rogue is life

[tribal blade]

sub is blasting too

[peak ice]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/best-class-to-main-in-midnight-expansion/?fbclid=Iwb21leAQRifBleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEepGCTadNz-7i7i4cCEep-vmxIa9RTpf-MliKr0qBxFfE-1HfHgM6RqraUNS0_aem_O9_kwEE0gA02nbThduMWqA

[upbeat cradle]

Rogue is fun if you play with people without keyboards

We failed that 18

[tribal blade]

damn which 18

also are those chinese players

[muted birch]

Was about to ask

[upbeat cradle]

Windrunner

Nah russians

[tribal blade]

pretty sure those boxes will only appear if it's in another language like chinese

[foggy estuary]

Putin prolly not chinese

Yeahhh called it 😂

[tribal blade]

ahh gotcha

[muted birch]

Full team almost

[trim lake]

When you include the Rp gamers the numbers get crazy lol. Druid will always top im pretty sure.

[upbeat cradle]

I dunno, WS is one of the dungeons where i have the highest overalls

[tribal blade]

damn that's crazy low dps

[peak ice]

Any language you don’t have. The like pack installed for

[muted birch]

So they had to be sonewhat good

[upbeat cradle]

Ikr

[foggy estuary]

Let me guess archers stayd behind and noone interrupted cutthroats?🫠

[tribal blade]

all the world on your shoulders

[upbeat cradle]

Almost

I was just watching it all unfold with my bucket of popcorn and CoS

[peak ice]

I feel I do like good damage in m keys on packs like a little behind dk

And then in the bosses you just fuckn demolish them

[tribal blade]

damn did nobody kick the poison things

[upbeat cradle]

I did

Not sure about the others

[tribal blade]

haha

sad

[foggy estuary]

Big sad bro

[upbeat cradle]

I honestly think they were missing buttons on their keyboards

[foggy estuary]

Looks like it 😂

[tribal blade]

yeah this bracket of keys is interesting

[muted birch]

They where probably drunk

[peak ice]

The mage who made his own 1 button macro and the parsed grey for like 2 months finally left the guild

I’m so happy

[tribal blade]

this is kinda my first time playing in this bracket (significantly below cutoff)

and the players are....

interesting

[upbeat cradle]

That was the 17 i did just before too

[peak ice]

You want a mage

I can set you up with like the best mage

[muted birch]

Holy moly

[upbeat cradle]

I thought 17-18 was gonna be where i find decent players

[foggy estuary]

Big

Pit?

[foggy estuary]

No no

[upbeat cradle]

No also WS lol

[foggy estuary]

Good players are now in 19-20 this week

[muted birch]

How to do such numbers in overall

ESP. With pugs

[tribal blade]

yeah the 17-18 range most people don't do dmg

[upbeat cradle]

Spam BP 😂

[tribal blade]

it's the reason why they aren't higher IO

[foggy estuary]

So we stuck in 16-18 puggatory of specialness

[muted birch]

But i do, and sometimes i drop on dmg..

[foggy estuary]

Because now 16are joke

[peak ice]

My 10 today had like 3 guys with 3600+ in

[foggy estuary]

Everyone thinks 18is blastable and ez brez

[muted birch]

Imo this whole expansion

[alpine wraith]

yea we farming for shards

[muted birch]

Is easy..

[alpine wraith]

yday i got a big boost

[tribal blade]

18s are pretty chill to me

[alpine wraith]

got guidon and gaze M

and looted belo dagger

[muted birch]

I came to game like week ago

[upbeat cradle]

There was this guy who invited me, and he was like ''i'm surprised you did that much damage, i invited you for funsies but damn'' and i'm like. I get pity invites now

[muted birch]

Or week and 3 days

Now im 279

[peak ice]

We cleared that 10 with like 15 min left

[muted birch]

My only issue is getting to keys

I got 2.9k

And i was at 2.7 before i found a guild

[foggy estuary]

Couple resets max and u hit 3.4 for mount ez if u commit

[muted birch]

I need to sleep this over sometime

🤣

[mighty citrus]

do these upgrade cores drop also from nhc team?

[tribal blade]

oh huge

[muted birch]

Nhc?

[mighty citrus]

spire nhc

[muted birch]

Im hoping for guidon or gaze from vault

Both mythic

[tribal blade]

gauranteed drop on heroic

[alpine wraith]

yea did the whole upgrade hc trinks

[muted birch]

Not 100%

[tribal blade]

normal not guaranteed

[alpine wraith]

then only use 20 crests for the 285->289

saved lots

[tribal blade]

nice

[alpine wraith]

but now i have to farm more shards

[mighty citrus]

how does this acutally work. i got the 285 av but the costs are still the same per step for me?

i thought i would bet cheaper

[muted birch]

I farm shards on delves t11

[alpine wraith]

achiev only works for slots you already have higher ilvl

[muted birch]

Have to get renown 9

[foggy estuary]

U need to have on alt the piece for cheapos bruv

[alpine wraith]

so if you only have 1 char it is useless

[tribal blade]

i only have 1 char i play

[mighty citrus]

ah i see

[tribal blade]

so sadly i will not be getting discount

[alpine wraith]

same

[muted birch]

Considering my luck with bis Items that arę mandatory

[alpine wraith]

some people with 2 or 3 chars eating well

[muted birch]

I might as well try and farm drums

[foggy estuary]

Based rog

[muted birch]

I have 6

All are rogues

[tribal blade]

SHEEESH

[muted birch]

Different race

[fallow glade]

being able to get discounts for main with alt gear like this is so dumb

[foggy estuary]

I play rogue since vanilla, dk since wrath, and dh since legion but i main rogue others are fillers for downtime

[muted birch]

When i try to create any news char

After i hit create, there's a rogue on the screen

I need professions for my main

[upbeat cradle]

3.4 is really easy

[muted birch]

Im not droping engi and mining

I have it for 20 years

And im gonna have it for next 20

[upbeat cradle]

I'm like you but worse because i have 5 mechagnome rogues 😂

And 4 of them are named Djivs

[muted birch]

All of mine have same name almost

[upbeat cradle]

The last one is my rogue from back when WoW came out

[muted birch]

Either epsylion

[upbeat cradle]

Which was a gnome

[muted birch]

Or cuted short/backwards

My main is with me ever since bwl got introduced

Used to be undead

[upbeat cradle]

But yeah anyways, play queue simulator for 60-90min. Get in a key, spam BP, fail key, try again. Keep blasting.

I need a meme of ''anyways i started blasting'' but with BP

[muted birch]

XD

Back in legion i statred playing sub in tandem with outlaw

Since stats were simmilar

[upbeat cradle]

I've always played sub, only rarely dabbled in outlaw and assa on my alts

[muted birch]

To have some change in life i go outlaw 🤣

I started sub on alt

And loved it

[upbeat cradle]

I dunno, for me, rogues=stealth. Sub=stealth. Sub=rogue

[foggy estuary]

Assa and sub are rogue

Third spec no exists

[upbeat cradle]

Yeah assa kinda is, i just don't like the spec

Never had that ''click''

[vestal escarp]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[vale pine]

subtlety = stealth

ye

[muted salmon]

Honestly sub and sin should just be the same thing, make a ranged arcane trickster spec like in dnd

[muted birch]

Agree

[vale pine]

i wouldn't mind if subtlety became more like a horizon walker or trickster

[upbeat cradle]

Assa should be a healer spec that heals by stabbing your teammates with poisons

[muted birch]

But remember, even a stealthy guild

[ornate lake]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

be sub rogue
Have class mastery centred around prio damage
Have worst prio damage of all rogue specs

[muted birch]

Needs some frontline

[muted salmon]

outlaw exists

[vale pine]

its a design problem

like

subtlety was intentionally nerfed

so others can now get the niche

[fallow glade]

[muted salmon]

I miss old sub and arcane 🙁

[vale pine]

because, reasons

jokes aside

[fallow glade]

be rogue
have the niche of long melee range
give long melee range to every class
remove it from every class

[muted birch]

I feel like sub is modeled as entry spec for rogues

Dunno why

[vale pine]

the problem is, blizz thought of the niche of funnel as too strong

so it implemented a high trade off for subtlety

however

then decided to nuke it

other specs got the same niche later (not limited to rogue)

[muted salmon]

I mean the same happened to arcane and their funnel was even more egregious

[vale pine]

tho neither of them got the same trade offs

[muted salmon]

But man i miss it 😔

[ornate lake]

Sorry I don't regarding outlaw mains as huma...I mean I don't regard them as rogues.

Most of their spec feels like a warrior archetype

[muted birch]

Every spec i like gets overhaul

[vale pine]

which is to me weird

[muted birch]

Guess ill start liking asassin

[vale pine]

because, if it was a problem with a trade off

why is it considered fine without

but many decisions follow this

[muted salmon]

I mean rogues are cunning and charismatic in most forms of fantasy media, pirates fit the bill to some degree

[muted birch]

Well sub Has 2 active skills

[vale pine]

e.g. nimble flurry change seems to be aimed to add a high trade off between aoe and st

while removing cleave entirely

[muted birch]

And 3cds

[vale pine]

now

subtlety would need to do outstanding st and aoe to compemsate

it does not, which is why its not meta in m+

or ends up as literally worse spec on paladins

[muted birch]

Ye noticed, this is sonewhat stupid imo but they might want to differ the playstyle from outlaw

[vale pine]

assassiantion was the first spec to get bf

it got a custom, better version even

[muted salmon]

I can tell you sub and outlaw arent really similar even still

[vale pine]

subtlety got it as a band aid to fix cleave

[muted birch]

Its even more broken now

[vale pine]

it got removed because

[muted salmon]

Yeah sub’s nimble flurry felt like a last minute decision on their end

[vale pine]

well it seems like the rotaiton with it was too complicated

[upbeat cradle]

Like, I don't see the point of picking rogue in keys

[vale pine]

it worked well

[muted birch]

I have real issue with DPS tbh

[vale pine]

it wasn't problematic

still got purged

[muted birch]

My trinkets are off

[vale pine]

which feels like a common theme around subtlety

[muted birch]

No guidon, no gaze

I even lost the roll on hc one to a dh tank

[vale pine]

puzzle box is fine-ish

and the baloren trinket is also fine

[muted birch]

Puzzle box and prism is what run

[upbeat cradle]

Zul fight in Uldir was fun for the whole week it lasted

[vale pine]

i think the problem is the one directionality of changes

basically

[muted birch]

I missed that 🥲

[vale pine]

once you have a niche that stood out

[upbeat cradle]

They must be using chatgbt to make those changes

[muted birch]

Sub was really fun

[vale pine]

you often don't get it back again, because of fear of causing problems

[muted birch]

Now its kinda fun but weird

[vale pine]

this is why subtlety keeps moving away from things

[muted salmon]

Only way the devo and unholy tuning changes makes sense

[vale pine]

dynamic cooldown management -> gone

highest burts in game -> gone

funnel -> gone

[muted birch]

Now we're playing from CD to cd

[upbeat cradle]

We're doing pretty well in the 95th percentile in the raid tho

[vale pine]

high mobility -> now on all rogue specs

[muted salmon]

I think they’re stepping away from that gameplay loop to cater more towards controller gaming… console release impending

[vale pine]

cleave from nimble -> gone

[muted birch]

I also fear that

[upbeat cradle]

Makes no sense because ff14 has lots of buttons and still works on controller

[muted birch]

Tho considering console gaming

Take a look at apex

[vale pine]

wow is not on console so far

and removing nimble does not impact it

[muted birch]

You can do all the move tech there

[muted salmon]

Yeah the issue is ff14 came out in like mid 2010’s
Wow came out a decade before it

[vale pine]

any of the things mentioned work fine with the limited buttons we have

just requires design changes

[muted birch]

You mean the 3 action buttons we have now yes?

[upbeat cradle]

Nah I think they should buff Vanish so that if you press it, your rogue vanishes from your character selection screen until they buff the class

[muted birch]

Without utility

[muted salmon]

I think wow is too deep into its system and mechanics that its gonna keep going the way it is unless they do a literal overhaul of the system

I think wow needs to step away from uptime gameplay, super degenerate imo

[vale pine]

subtlety always had a fairly defined button count

some amount of redundancy was introduced over time

but it was not a insanely high button spec

rather had a lot of gameplay depth

now both is low

[keen steppe]

In my opinion remove rupture was okay

[muted birch]

Yes

[vale pine]

removal of rupture was planed

[muted birch]

Now our depth is the size of pyjama pocket

[vale pine]

basically, as a finisher spec, rupture needed to do noticable amounts of damage

[muted salmon]

Hey we could be fire mage…

[violet palm]

Elem is doing our niche but better. Higher burst dmg and also ranged

Even doing worse on paladins better than us

[vale pine]

the problem was, a lot of people on other dot based specs, especially rogue specs

ended up extrmely unhappy

when subtlety did more damage then them

so blizz sucessively made rupture suck on subtlety

every patch a bit worse

and then removed it

which means, rupture over time felt more and more like a burden to press

and made the removal feel very good

weather or not thats a good way to handle design change, i am not the right person to ask

sometimes, it makes sense, to phase somehting out

[muted birch]

Well st hits like a truck supercharged

But still IT doesnt explain why sub was somewhat dumbed down

[alpine wraith]

it is the anchor strat

make an unreasonable demand then keep lowering until your real price

[vale pine]

the reason subtlety was dumped down

[alpine wraith]

secret tech is even bugged

[vale pine]

is basically a change in direction

[alpine wraith]

the clones do not work with apex

[vale pine]

the one thing that was promised and not kept was

[alpine wraith]

and many other thingns

[vale pine]

to have similar gameplay and damage profile

[upbeat cradle]

Apex doesn't affect pets i guess

[alpine wraith]

yea we are more rigid

kinda sad

[vale pine]

as i mentioned above

the nimble flurry change is weird to me

i know the reaosn was to simplify the aoe rotation

but if we look at simulation numbers for playing it "incorrectly"

the trade off was actually fine/good

even if you used evis/strike when you shouldn't

your aoe damage would not go down as significant

and once you got into real aoe

like 8+ targets

you would usually use aoe finishers

[sonic depot]

i really hope they revert the nimble change

[vale pine]

for key

*keys

it ment people could basically stay on the single target rotation

especially in pugs

where pull sizes are small

[fallow glade]

stealing outlaw niche - not allowed

[vale pine]

and to be fair, many people did like that

i found it more engaging than what we have now

[violet palm]

ST was big prio in higher keys also

[vale pine]

i am honestly bored

doing m+

its not enjoyable

i play tfd to have some amount of gameplay optimizations

[upbeat cradle]

I watch youtube while doing keys

[muted birch]

Might try IT if my outlaw will still be somewhat garbage

[compact pollen]

Idm them removing rupture but dont understand keeping something like slice and dice when is something that is so automatic..

[naive tapir]

its enjoyable while u trashtalking who ruined first pack in not resi key

[vale pine]

i mean its nice

[muted birch]

I remember those few days ago after i came back and saw sub

[vale pine]

you can focus on other things like positioning or dodging

[muted birch]

Since i loged year ago as sub

[vale pine]

but i did rly like the nuances between st/cleave/aoe before

[muted birch]

I instantly checked all other specs

[vale pine]

now its just storm + bp for 90% of the key

[muted birch]

I wouldnt mind if sub got somekjnd of shadow dot simmilar to rupture

[fallow nimbus]

Nah

[muted birch]

Something to use outside shadow dance

[fallow nimbus]

Old nimble with eviscerate/strike cleave would be more engaging and could fix our low target cleave

[muted birch]

I was actually speaking about single

But yeah old nimble was more demandinf

More fun to Play arouns etc

And as fuu said, sin still have same cleave

Even better tbh

[obsidian crag]

I wish they could make our st build be good for 3 target cleave like paladins fight

[void ocean]

the only thing i didnt like about old nimble was that ud do ST rotation up to like 6 targets, id prefer if that number was like 3... everything else was perfect

[violet palm]

Well you can double Shadow Strike after SecTech, it still have some cleave

[muted birch]

Everything is better

Than bp on 2 targets

[fallow nimbus]

The cleave is hidden blade and storm procs that too

[muted birch]

And we have to call IT "cleave"

But as i looked on talents

[keen steppe]

Its very boring yeah

[muted birch]

IT would be nice if they actually made options to chose from

Swaping 1-2 talent from single to aoe doesnt count

Same is on outlaw, only one viable way to go

I simmed since i was curious

And even if one wanted to Play different talents on the main nodes

He would basicly hinder himself

Even in tww we had options

Somone could experiment and still do decent damage

Eh i just miss having a real choice what to pick that would kinda change gameplay

[vale pine]

I also don't think danse macabre is interessting anymore

[muted birch]

Eh back then

Macro on sd with backatab

To get a stack

[vale pine]

i know

but you probably wouldn't do that even now

[muted birch]

IT was niche but Man when you got it to worka

[vale pine]

because backstab does a lot less damage than strike

[muted birch]

Yup

[vale pine]

also the impact was sitll low-ish

like 0.5% max

[muted birch]

Was wondering why we dont go the shadow backatab

[vale pine]

you could never use backstab in dance

[muted birch]

But then i noticed how the nodes form

[vestal escarp]

!flask

[vale pine]

and still perform rank 1

[vale pine]

use mastery flasks

[graceful osprey]

Surely blizzard has a good rework for 12.1, surely

[vale pine]

a easy win would be

to remove goremaws

[muted birch]

If i have around 500-600 crit rating

[vale pine]

and give an option like the sylvanas dagger effetc instead

[muted birch]

Will it hinder me much ?

[vale pine]

if you are unsure, raidbots allows you to sim the diffrence, but mastery is typically better now

[graceful osprey]

Realistically, the best we’re going to get is another aura buff

[vale pine]

i don't know

[muted birch]

I dont have the trinkets as I said

[vale pine]

i also don't think sub is bad atm

hmm

[muted birch]

Got ember tho on bp

[vale pine]

ye, probably sim

better

[muted birch]

K

[vale pine]

just do this

easy ^^

[muted birch]

I do have SIM from around 3am

Will do when i get back home

Btw i feel like my dmg is low on this sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x9KXyjh3SxCoXdhWKmo5rD

[vale pine]

you could switch to deathstalker

its now quite a bit ahead on st

[muted birch]

Hmm

[fallow nimbus]

I have 900 crit

[muted birch]

I actually liked deathstalker in s1

[vale pine]

stats are more haste heavy potentially for it

[muted birch]

IT was seriously overperofrming

[foggy estuary]

2 on use trinkets sounds not fun times fam

[muted birch]

I do actually have Items to get 1000k haste

[muted birch]

I know

[vale pine]

can use a haste flask too

[muted birch]

But that's how IT simed

[vale pine]

if you don't reach 1100 else

[muted birch]

I run prism

With puzzle

[foggy estuary]

Ah gochu

[muted birch]

Tho swaped on chinareus myth for ember

Since bloodmallet showed its way ahead in st

But i noticed that i kinda lose track now mid fight

Since use trinket is treated like 3min

And well, my mistake that i pop IT without any good reason

[foggy estuary]

You should always aim to max the blades window

[muted birch]

Yes, tho funny thing

[ornate lake]

Lmfaoo I remember that funnel

[muted birch]

When i used ember festhet

From spire

My secret techbiques

Perfectly ended cd when i pop 2nd dance

On 8s remaining

Well not perfect

But it did catch 2nd super charge

[ornate lake]

Wdym it's still there right?

[muted birch]

Only coup and white hits

[hazy breach]

Not on strikes and evis

But yes

[muted birch]

Coup is realy anoying

[vale pine]

it mvoed to coup de grace, to keep coup relevant in aoe

strike and evis got removed, but those ended up creating most of our cleave damage

[peak ice]

Kinda wish it was just all of them

[vale pine]

which is why our cleave is now noticably worse

[muted birch]

Oh btw

[vale pine]

(not that rogue cleave is insane)

[muted birch]

When on shadowdance

We dont use shadowstrike in aoe yes ?

Even if IT fills cp

Muscle memory from year ago still kicks in

[peak ice]

Depends on targets

[muted birch]

As with outlaw

I guess we do that up till 3 targets y ?

[vale pine]

nope

[muted birch]

Ah ok

[vale pine]

Storm with:
2+ outside dance
4+ during dance

[muted birch]

And we dont use st without dance

Since following proper rotation we shouldnt sit on 2 charges

[ornate lake]

Oh I remember now. Time flies

[muted birch]

Btw there is this other potion

Is IT worth the hassle

To Play around this void thingy

[ornate lake]

Blizzard's solutions create more problems than it solves tbh

Now every other melee class feels and plays like a ret pala

[muted birch]

Ret pala is family console friendly

Also ideal for 1 Burton rotation 🤣

Its not like somone didnt macro IT long ago

Eh i just came back after year, week and a half online and im salty

As hell

[ornate lake]

Yes rupture sucks on sub (partly because of blizzard nerfing it to shit), but the damage amp and prio funnel was literally the sub niche. That's why apes like us played it.

Moving the stacking mastery from flag to blades and reverting back nimble changes would fix a lot of things imo

[shadow hamlet]

hi, is there any usage of evasion on Lura ?

[muted birch]

If playing deathstalker

How much is stalker behind in pure aoe and cleave compared to trickster ? Or i shouldnt even consider swaping

[shadow lance]

Seems no, I don't see any use in top logs

[worldly root]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[peak ice]

You can use it to survive a few more seconds when both of your tanks die?

Feint is goated as usual though

[grizzled hornet]

don't swap

[muted birch]

Mhm so single IT is

But still isn't like 109k dps simed low?

On 279 ilvl

[peak ice]

Kinda vague to answer

[grizzled hornet]

did i miss some context? i dont get it

[muted birch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x9KXyjh3SxCoXdhWKmo5rD

My bad

[peak ice]

Seems fine against st

[muted birch]

Asking without context

Just asking since on spreadsheet there is 134k

[grizzled hornet]

Thats full gear though, you are 279 with bad trinkets

[muted birch]

I was wondering where would i even get the missing 30

[muted birch]

Ye sad life

[grizzled hornet]

you are simming fine, just always keep in mind the haste breakpoints

[grizzled hornet]

Trinkets will make a big difference, and ofc ilvl

[muted birch]

Hopefully myth will be waiting in vault

This one was hc

[vale pine]

unlucky

[muted birch]

Im even considering to trzy getting champ track

[grizzled hornet]

it will undersim cus of ilvl

i think

not 100% sure

[muted birch]

I got the one trinket that on proc drops a green soul

From Caverns

I dont have problem noticing them

But i dont know if its worth

[peak ice]

It’s fine

Anything that makes u move where you don’t want to is garbage to me though idk

[muted birch]

He sims lower tho

Considering pushing delve to rank 9

And targeting drums

Or the spire trinket

With haste

[grizzled hornet]

i'd rly suggest taking advantage of bonus rolls on the 2 bosses that drop our trinkets

and when they drop also roll for them

[muted birch]

Well sadly when i came back i was guildless

[grizzled hornet]

i am always talking about Mythic difficulty

dont waste rolls on Heroic

[muted birch]

And to progress on gear i followed guides on which dung

[grizzled hornet]

imo

[muted birch]

To use them

[peak ice]

Eh

You can just core to

[tribal blade]

if you have gold and really want them you can buy a boost

[muted birch]

Tho i did gry getting gaże from nyth

Got belt:<

Next try on reset

[grizzled hornet]

You can either try join a pug, as those 2 bosses are quite easy or even spend some gold to buy a boost

[muted birch]

I have a guild now

;p

[grizzled hornet]

oh nice

[muted birch]

Ye, even fot 3/9 myth

[grizzled hornet]

we all start somewhere

[muted birch]

They said they gonba give me chance and time since i recently came back

Did my best on chima myth progress

Even jumped over their rogue

[latent remnant]

Huge, you got this

[muted birch]

Which was bis geared and 12ilvl higher

Still im new

So, last im line

But vault might give back

[latent remnant]

Same I first started playing around 6 months ago

[grizzled hornet]

still, since you kill bosses you can roll on the trinkets