subtlety

[alpine wraith]

you would get the discount

otherwise unluck

be more degen

[sick epoch]

Omfg..... okay

I get it now

Thank u mate

Got baited so hard

[alpine wraith]

it rewards people with multiple chars quite heavily

but us schmucks with 1 char

get bent

[sick epoch]

Yes, I see. For normal ppl without time it's impossible the

[alpine wraith]

time is not the issue tbh we had plenty of time to gear alts

just the will to game the system

[crystal bone]

i think he means people with < 8 hrs a week to play

pretty much are locked into their mains

at least for a while

[hybrid prism]

can someone post the macro for black powder and coup. the one that uses coup if its up?

[timid rose]

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[hybrid prism]

thanks homie

[smoky goblet]

with SIMs, does it detect if you have guidons or not? I was running a sim and its telling me to run almost 850 haste w/ guidons over just taking more mastery and having just over 700 haste

[vale osprey]

Do we upgrade OH > Guidon when MH and Gaze are upgraded?

[alpine wraith]

no trinkets first before oh

[runic gorge]

Mh>trinkets>oh

[half nebula]

My crafted dagger I ascended is still clickable with another core.. surely it wont brick it right?

[hazy breach]

Dslice is weird, wouldnt recommend

If it's on pure st then idk

[limber folio]

we almost there

[alpine wraith]

hero neck detected

but holy

[shell hollow]

What character page addon is this?

[warm marlin]

chonky character stats

[fossil forge]

im homeless 💀

[graceful osprey]

Ahh fellow bloodfang enjoyer

[fossil forge]

i just got the purple version

any1 know if purple swords like these exist?

[graceful osprey]

The purple one I BiS, I just can’t seem to find weapons that I reaaalllly like. Right now I’m using the manaforge mythic daggers as transmog

[fossil forge]

im using these swords on my main and bagguettes on my outlaw

[hexed wave]

Finally looted the second binding two nights ago

bonus rolling mythic pbox makes me wanna try assa now

[lean sigil]

How is sub vs assa dmg in keys? In just doing 17-18 and sub feels ok now

Assa better prio but same overall?

[crystal bone]

all 3 specs are doing pretty well

[desert oasis]

heard this brink guy is a gamer

[crystal bone]

assa does have better prio ye, i think sub has really good ST tho

[graceful osprey]

You know….im using puzzle box as sub…I kinda like it. I pump hard in big pulls.

[small sleet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1487881361506173028/puzzlebox.gif

[desert oasis]

better prio through KB and DM right, no need for Deathstalker? I tried Sin this season and it feels clunky with the energy required to spread all the bleeds via tempest. Could also be a skill issue.

Also weird since idk if its better to focus on having optimal bleeds 24/7 or trying to go for splatter on a target

[graceful osprey]

Maybe I’m a puzzle box believer now. I’ll swap with guideon based on the fight in raids but mainly puzzle box in M+

[small sleet]

Being a puzzle box believer is the first step towards being a puzzle box hater

[hazy breach]

Its fine but there are a whole lot of situations where the 2 min cd is annoying

Whereas guidon is just always solid

[solemn patrol]

0 haste puzzle box tech

[hazy breach]

Also feels so ass to have your sectech desync from dances without the haste

[solemn patrol]

Only press a button every 4 seconds

[wispy crystal]

!rolls

[limber folio]

dont be homeless

[shell hollow]

Funnel too

[surreal orbit]

they people have been saying

[shell hollow]

Not strictly kb/dm but once your bleeds are spread and scent stacks are up, you essentially get 6-7 cp envenoms to dump into a prio target every 2nd gcd. Kb/dm help but

[hazy breach]

I mean sure, assa has very high prio. But sub doesn't have bad prio at all

[dusky yacht]

Are ritual sites still the fastest way to farm the ascendant voidcores

[delicate wharf]

How come that whenever I have apex proc and I go shadowdance sectech, i dont get combo point refund?

And if it's the case I dont get the refund, what gets prio, getting sectech on cd or spending the apex proc spender without shadow dance to get the refund?

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

• The first Ancient Arts clone cannot proc while Premeditation is up, as you are not expending any Shadow Technique stacks. This is not really a bug, just an unfortunate interaction.
• There is also a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts 3. (This does not matter much numerically, but feels weird)

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[delicate wharf]

Aight so whats the prio, getting refund or ripping sectech

[merry agate]

currently progging alleria myth and just realized my obelisk beams are barely seeable? on different players PoV they are bright blue mine are dark blue o.O
particle density wasnt it... anyone knows?

[hazy breach]

You don't care about the bug

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach does the need for 1100 drop down with 298 guidon? At 900 haste on target dummy it seemed like I was just missing getting second Sectech in blades.

[hazy breach]

So yes you just send sectech

[fossil forge]

No saved crests in vault sadge..

[hazy breach]

Well it's for the nonblades dances too

[delicate wharf]

tyvm

So I was doing it right :D

[limber folio]

picked up socket for the first time

[lilac stag]

I couldn’t be arsed recrafting everything for proper test. Is the actual dance gcd or just keeping things aligned later down the road?

[fossil forge]

Fullsocketed noober

[lilac stag]

Still playing rogue noobar

[fossil forge]

the curse

i am lvling warrior though

(Never finishing it though)

[lilac stag]

I forgot how nice the visuals look for fdk

launching a dragon like a tactical nuke

[fossil forge]

frost is fun

[warm marlin]

exterminate so good

[fossil forge]

unholy stink

[lilac stag]

I haven’t touched Uh. Just leveling

[fossil forge]

Good.

[lilac stag]

I’m still in timewalking prison since I used 80 boost

[fossil forge]

Fairly fast though

i wanna play havoc also but i go lvl and die from boredom 30min in

[swift tinsel]

Wish you could go all in on AR mover havoc

[ashen warren]

lvling is mo much pain

but there is TW this week so I guess I'll try to play a lot of alts

[fossil forge]

havoc does nuts dmg

its just overshadowed by dev

[wispy crystal]

hi all, which M+ dungeon should i save my bonus rolls for ideally?

[swift tinsel]

Just needs to keep eating 3-5% nerfs

[fossil forge]

apparently its better on lura but low sample size

[swift tinsel]

Ye

I enjoy it but pugging as not-dev dh has not been fun lol

[fossil forge]

Understandable

[warm marlin]

it is much better on lura

[fossil forge]

Its like people forgot dh has 3 specs

[swift tinsel]

It also has really really good funnel

[graceful rock]

Our havoc is top crystal damage and like 3-5th boss damage

[warm marlin]

we played ddh and havoc for the last 2 weeks of prog

ddh kinda has to choose

between crystal and boss damage

havoc gaps no matter what they choose

[swift tinsel]

If I weren’t gearing and enjoying arms I’d dabble in havoc for alt nights

[warm marlin]

it just beats dev no matter what they spec into while also giga gapping what they don't spec into

[fossil forge]

very slept on rn

[graceful osprey]

Honestly, Dev Dh in my guild completely forgot about havoc lol

[warm marlin]

boss/crystal damage

[alpine wraith]

we have a havoc dh main that may go back

[warm marlin]

havoc kinda owning

[fossil forge]

wthelly

[alpine wraith]

is that full p1

[warm marlin]

just crystal damage on our kill

[fossil forge]

it might be time to bring out the real guns

[alpine wraith]

so full p1

[warm marlin]

ye

[alpine wraith]

nice

[warm marlin]

the pink is ppal btw

spec kinda crazy

[alpine wraith]

their cooldowns align quite well

[graceful osprey]

Aside from my other two rogue alts, I have a demo lock, ret paladin and boomy. Ret is probably my favorite alt right now lol. I get CDs like every trash pack

[alpine wraith]

that is a prot pala tho

[graceful rock]

I’m trying my hardest on boss damage

[warm marlin]

your dks not want to play frost?

[graceful rock]

I think they’re just too geared for uh atp

[warm marlin]

you play the exact same gear

[graceful rock]

We’re also like 7% from killing the boss

[warm marlin]

ah

fdk is much harder to play so maybe bad to swap when close

[graceful rock]

Yeah

One of them is a warrior refugee too

[swift tinsel]

Fdk when you’re in pillar and have frostbane exterminate rime and breath going feels like you have a full nuclear arsenal at your disposal

[warm marlin]

buttons feel great and visual/sound design is awesome

[graceful rock]

The few times I’ve tried to play frost I was really bad at it

I don’t understand ERW

[warm marlin]

erw also a goated button

[mighty citrus]

You hold Your dance for this? Our timings are a few seconds early and I don’t wanna waste my dance st combo

[warm marlin]

idk i played outlaw and then fdk

[mighty citrus]

Oh 🤓🤓

[warm marlin]

depends on your comp

we had people swap to pure st our crystals would die so fast

like our ddh

[mighty citrus]

Yeah

2 havoc destroy them

[warm marlin]

dk is 45/90 and i just press on cd the entire fight essentially idk

if your grips happen then the crystals omega die with current power level

no reason to save for them

[mighty citrus]

Yeah I don’t save, but with our comp my dances are mostly before crystals spawn

Doesn’t matter anyways

I guess

[graceful osprey]

what has happened to sub, starving energy now more or less

[graceful rock]

Energy isn’t relevant on sub

[sleek ridge]

anyone got time to help me with UI for PVP?

[graceful osprey]

no i use mana

[swift tinsel]

In dance you have infinite energy

[graceful osprey]

its not 100% uptime

[shrewd lantern]

doesnt need to be

[swift tinsel]

Damage outside dance means pretty much nothing

[shrewd lantern]

you dont do damage outside dance

xdd

[swift tinsel]

So you don’t really need energy, you pretty much just backstab to not over cap every

[shrewd lantern]

more excuses to feint

[ripe flame]

Outside dance energy doesn't matter

[shrewd lantern]

when hp gets tickled

[glacial hinge]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

also sub has had this energy flow the entire expac

and tww technically

[vale pine]

most of subtleties damage is in cooldowns

thats why energy outside of it is not that relevant

[proud anchor]

Can someone check my math? going by the guides - if ive to use 2 stacks of dance during blades - Firstly i can safely use 1 stack of dance up until 10 seconds before blades - on the flip side of that, if i have zero stacks and require two for dance i would need to stop using them at ~32secs before dance? Or have i gone mental?

thats factoring in the cast the 2nd at 8 secs left fyi

[graceful osprey]

Still waiting for Gloomblade to just straight up replace backstab

[meager creek]

I’m going lightblinded vanguard do I press blackpowder on 2 target?

[serene notch]

@alpine wraith can you post that spreadsheet looking thing you have that shows the break down of additional GCDs vs haste?

[shrewd lantern]

you press n and swap specs

otherwise talent pp and bp on 2

if you want to pretend you’re helping

[meager creek]

Hahaha

True we are a scam on that fight

[small sleet]

Applying atrophic poison is more help than most dps are doing on that fight given how free the dps check is at this point

[graceful rock]

Basically just dance + tech on CD until blades is up in like 10s

[red flame]

Same fr

Just delete backstab atp, it’s 2026

[graceful rock]

What I said above

[graceful osprey]

No idea why it’s still talent like blizzard hello?

[graceful rock]

You shouldn’t ever have to sit on stuff for more than like 15s worst case

[proud anchor]

seen thanks dude

[lusty acorn]

Is there any change for classes for next patch?

[proud anchor]

Interesting - i must be missing something, feels like it offsets and i only get one in during blades

[willow mantle]

has anyone calculated the damage buff from the 0.7 ptr changes?

[winter parcel]

I think that’s normal except in your opener

[small sleet]

Nah you should definitely get 2 dances in every time you use shadow blades

[proud anchor]

ohhh now that changes thigns if it is - as ive jsut tried it there and during the second burst i had to wait 10 seconds for another stack of dance before i could pop sec tech.

[proud anchor]

thats what i thought

[tame notch]

Is there dmg buff?

[tepid trellis]

you should ALWAYS be able to 2x dance during blades

[willow mantle]

yeah there is, but i have no idea what im looking at, its on mmo champion

its a bunch of aura changes

[proud anchor]

i popped sec tech and dance 12 seconds before blades was off cd and the second dance was 10 seconds out for a sec tech and dance at the end.

[umbral fulcrum]

yea that was the mistake

[north schooner]

that seems to be just the live hotfixes being applied

[small sleet]

If you sectech 12 seconds before blades you aren’t gonna have sectech up when blades comes up, and you want sectech to be your first global

[umbral fulcrum]

you should never be using sectec if it would mean you delay blades

[tepid trellis]

everything you do on sub is according to sectech cd

[umbral fulcrum]

unless you are intentionally holding for some timing

[tepid trellis]

so you need it to be ready for when blades is off cd

[willow mantle]

bummer

[proud anchor]

ok let me keep testing this on the dummy and ill be back - my small peanut brain isnt working well.

[winter parcel]

So really in that case you’re holding sec/dance till blades

[tepid trellis]

in most cases you will be able to fit 2x dances between each blades

[willow fulcrum]

noob question. In dream rift mythic intermission phase. Do we share the trash mobs? Or do each group get their own set of mobs?

[proud anchor]

Right so i think im missing the point here and trying to add extra shit in and thats why im confused - during second burst i was trying to line sec tech and dance together like the opener. Im i only expecting 2 x dance in blades and not sec tech included... if that makes any sense.

[tepid trellis]

different

[tepid trellis]

during blades only the first sectech + first dance

is together

[wispy crystal]

Guys, which mythic dungeon are you using bonus rolls on?

[tepid trellis]

!guidon

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[small sleet]

You use the second dance with 8s left on blades, and will cast second sectech later into that dance

[timid rose]

ran out of stuff from Skyreach, moving on to Nexus Pt because I need Omission and Gloves 😄

[wispy crystal]

Sweet sounds good 😊

[timid rose]

pit is another good option too

depends on what you need really

[proud anchor]

yep got that - i always delay second dance until 8 secs on blades.

[wispy crystal]

What is good in pit actually

Crit haste neck?

[small sleet]

Legs are good, neck is good, dagger is good depending on your stats and what you need more or less of

[graceful osprey]

Legs are decent

[wispy crystal]

Got it, if we use legs from pit. Means we need tier on the other 4 slots then

[small sleet]

Yeah legs are the spot we prefer to not have tier in

[proud anchor]

This is what im seeing - pull is all cds - usual burst. dance with 8 secs on blades all goes well. 2nd blades comes up i use it with dance and sec tech. When i hit the 8 second mark of blades left i dont have another dance to go with it. its normally 8-10 secs out and i miss the window for dance in blades

[serene notch]

Why is this tip tied to guidon?

[tepid trellis]

you can fit in 3 dances between each uses if you slightly delay blades which on most fights doesn't matter if you do

[proud anchor]

and i had 15 odd seconds left on blades and stopped using dance.

[tepid trellis]

i dont know, i just knew it would link the thing

[graceful osprey]

What’s your haste and do you have guidon

[crystal bone]

because you can't do it without guidon

need it for the 2nd sectec

[proud anchor]

thats why 😄

Appreciate you!

and the rest for dealign with my stupidity.

[tepid trellis]

well if you dont have somewhere around 700 haste + tier

[serene notch]

I think that tip applies as long as you meet !stats

[tepid trellis]

then you are in a rough spot

[proud anchor]

thatll be why its tied to !guidon

[graceful osprey]

Haste Is our new hit rating now

[serene notch]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[crystal bone]

diablo 2 breakpoints are back

[proud anchor]

i can hit 800 without if i use a flask for haste

This is an alt so still gearing

[tepid trellis]

but yeh tier + a lil bit of haste and you can double sectech blades

[limber folio]

chatgpt ahh pic 😭

[tepid trellis]

dont recall who but i think it might have been prophet who made it

[proud anchor]

Certainly looks like a haste issue then. Whilst its buggered for me will i just send the dance in blades? then go back to sec tech asap. or will i wait for sec tech and blades together and forget about fitting the two in that window for now

[wispy crystal]

What is a guidon??

[serene notch]

As a non guidon owner even with 800~ haste that 2nd sectec inside blades feels miserable

[proud anchor]

my reaction entirely. though i was being an idiot.

[wispy crystal]

Guidon is an item is it?

I keep thinking it's some add-on I need to download to increase my haste lol

[proud anchor]

trinket

[tepid trellis]

its first boss trinket from voidspire

[wispy crystal]

Oh right

Well I don't have that yet haha

Is that the Bis trinket that is strong even its a heroic drop?

[tepid trellis]

its quite good yep

[alpine wraith]

yea it is very good

[wispy crystal]

Ok guess I'm spending bonus rolls on it then haha

[tepid trellis]

yeh you get it back around 2 sec left on blades with 800 haste and no guidon

[tight fjord]

I have an idea for a macro, what happens if
/use shadow dance
/use secret technique
/use shadowstrike

So that the second dance during shadow blades uses the shadowstrike while sectec is on cd

[tepid trellis]

try macroing dance and strike

and got use it on a dummy

and come back

[snow finch]

xd

[ripe flame]

[tight fjord]

Well shiet

[small sleet]

There’s a small delay before you can shadowstrike. You could macro shuriken storm if you wanted that effect, but it’s better to just eat the delay and hit shadowstrike usually

[tepid trellis]

(it does work but you need to press it twice + it has a 0.2sec delay)

[small sleet]

Iirc with the recommended haste and such the small delay doesn’t change the number of globals you get in

[serene notch]

I’m kinda just in fuck it mode, I get my 7 GCDs per dance 2nd sectec is super charged outside of blades…..so be it

[tight fjord]

Got it reldo i might do that, since it’ll be the best option sometimes anyway

[serene notch]

Someday I’ll get a guidon

[tight fjord]

At least Danes mcab will get some use

[tepid trellis]

7 gcds

u be missin one

better go locate that mfer

he be hidin

[serene notch]

Are you trolling or am I bad….I thought it was 7?

[tepid trellis]

800 haste should be 1.6 sec on deepening (somewhere around that)
gcds would be
1 at 0sec
2 at 1sec
3 at 2sec
4 at 3sec
5 at 4sec
6 at 5 sec
7 at 6.2sec (haha coup)
8 at 7.2sec

and your dance should 7.6sec long

[left ledge]

DS

9 gcds

[serene notch]

Ok….now I’m going to sit there and count em out when I get home today….

[fathom adder]

holding puzzle until egg on beloren myth i guess? or are you using it on pull + 10 seconds into egg ? i guess it is not worth it to pull + 10 sec into but what do i know

[serene notch]

This new haste meta for us is terrible for dadcore gamers…..

[tepid trellis]

badabim badabob

i have amazing hand writing i know

[shrewd lantern]

its been 8 gcds per dance for the entirety of midnight

[serene notch]

Yes I am comparing to pre midnight

[tepid trellis]

it was 8 before too

only time it has been changed is when they fiddle with dance duration

[shrewd lantern]

thats not new

[tepid trellis]

so in TWW it was 8 sec

and in DF it was 5 early on iirc

[serene notch]

Maybe I’m just confusing reality with the feeling of having to think about ihaste breakpoints

[tepid trellis]

yeh i mean it would be different know if you went to like 500 haste

or below

then it would be less globals ofc

[left ledge]

just hold for egg

p1 damage is literally worthless

you hold dps anyways

[fathom adder]

ty

[shrewd lantern]

you’re overthinking

you get 700 haste with guidon

[serene notch]

Yea and 800 without

[shrewd lantern]

often i’ll have a strike cast go off when dance technically “expired”

no reason to play no guidon

[serene notch]

I am currently without, and struggling super hard fitting 2nd sectec inside blades and it’s frustrating

[left ledge]

ye thats pretty normal

your 2nd sectec wont be in blades without enough haste

but the idea is to cover dance and have sectec in dance

[shrewd lantern]

I thought you didnt care if you dont play guidon

and just send b2b

[serene notch]

I have 83x

[left ledge]

ngl bro

i have no fucking idea

i kind of just press buttons

[shrewd lantern]

you’ll probably get it in lust

[shrewd lantern]

same lmao

[left ledge]

in lust for sure

but outside of lust its just vibes idk

[shrewd lantern]

i just mesh and dps appears

on my screen

[tepid trellis]

sectech is 18sec cd with 800 haste

around that

[left ledge]

sometimes i b2b and then third dance right after with sectec lining up

but yeah typically you will be second dancing last 8 sec of blades

and your sectec will come up during the tail end of dance or something

i just dance if my sectec will be up within last 2 sec of dance

i hate these haste breakpoints

[serene notch]

It always feels like the animation for 2nd sectec does not complete before blades is over for me

[shrewd lantern]

i mean last time i was a puzzlebox gamer i just sent b2b and you got a third dance with sectech

as a lineup natty

[tepid trellis]

just do a quick sim in your setup fightypants and see what the bot does with the 2nd dance during blades

(ive never been a PB gamer i had guidon since week 1)

[serene notch]

Yea that’s kinda how I play it and gave up on trying to cram inside blades…but then if so why even 800 haste

[left ledge]

or just vibe it out

[serene notch]

I need to learn where I can see the sequence it does. Never knew you could read it.

[left ledge]

i vibe it out all the time

then i ask eleem

he says its not worth doing

and i continue doing it

[tepid trellis]

quick sim and scroll down lol

is the easiest way to do that

[serene notch]

<

[shrewd lantern]

I mean he said 800 haste gives st an 18s cd

[serene notch]

Ugh….stuck at work I should call in sick

[shrewd lantern]

which is enough time to fit it into blades

which is 19

[tepid trellis]

well sectech is 18sec cd

blades is 20 sec duration

[shrewd lantern]

isnt it 19

[tepid trellis]

animation of sectech is 1.3sec (kinda)

no?

[shrewd lantern]

oh

[tepid trellis]

so you have a 0.7sec gab

[shrewd lantern]

2 seconds i guess

[tepid trellis]

gap*

[shrewd lantern]

thats enough

[serene notch]

That’s the part that feels fried, it’s the animation

[shrewd lantern]

idk i just hit buttons

[proud anchor]

i never have a problem fitting the sec tech in at the end of blades its the damn dance that has 10 ssecs left all the time - to get it to perfectly line up i would need to stop all dances at 32 secs or below.

[shrewd lantern]

never read a simc cast sequence in my life

[limber folio]

P4

https://tenor.com/view/gaming-racing-meme-funny-rotating-chair-gif-25258918

[tepid trellis]

now back to p1 wiping u go

[left ledge]

it can get real confusing this tier

ngl

[limber folio]

tank died 5% on our side

[left ledge]

YOU'RE KILLING NEXT PULL

[vale pine]

nicuu, kill sooon

[left ledge]

THIS WAS OUR PROG

YOU GOT THIS

[limber folio]

yeye

+120

💀

we shouldve honestly killed boss last week

[shrewd lantern]

the true wtf moment this tier

[limber folio]

or even 2 weeks ago

[shrewd lantern]

was the guidon krangle

[limber folio]

with the amount of raiding we are doing

[left ledge]

yeah...

dont count on that

[limber folio]

[shrewd lantern]

back to the p1 wipe factory

[left ledge]

once my guild saw p4

they got irl bloodlust

[tepid trellis]

this was ours

[limber folio]

i mean this is today

we are atleast consistent p3

but like

[left ledge]

yeah can prob kill

[limber folio]

its literally 1 minute

and the boss is dead yes

[tepid trellis]

what in the fuck

[ripe flame]

[left ledge]

warlock pet on passive, i was assa getting 0 ambush procs in execute

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LmfQkgV1pcJdFAjK?fight=16

[tepid trellis]

shouldve been sub

ez kill

[left ledge]

feel free to look at this log of eternal suffering and anguish

[tepid trellis]

on you

[left ledge]

this was before cloud cover though

sub wasnt much better at egg damage

[left ledge]

also tbf

my gear was fucking awful

my sub was simming like 105k

[tepid trellis]

think i was 280 on beloren

[left ledge]

i was 279 on assa which was like 4 ilvl above my sub

i was sat on dragon, pala, crown so i missed some big vaults

[tepid trellis]

i was in on crown

but i played dragons reclears

[left ledge]

yeah i only got my crown kill last week

[tepid trellis]

cuz we knew i was gonna be playing last 2

[left ledge]

yeah wouldve been nice if i got that

but it is what it is

happy we finished the tier

did a lil bit of trolling

had to go from sub -> assa -> outlaw -> sub

[tepid trellis]

i went from sub

to sub

[left ledge]

wish that was me

dude

i gave up 2 guidons on mythic

[tepid trellis]

on yourself

[left ledge]

because i was like "nah sub is cooked"

[tepid trellis]

dont fomo

[left ledge]

well ok thing is

our dk needed guidon

and i was playing outlaw on lura during that time

i didnt foresee cloud cover nerfs

[tepid trellis]

then you stoopid

[left ledge]

i know i am because

i literally said it myself

"they didnt intend for cloud cover to function like this"

like i knew they did not mean for it to stack the other effects

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JgjqBC2r7DLZcATk?fight=37&type=summary&source=12

[shrewd lantern]

wdym 60% uptime on 15% dr is fine

you’re almost how a dk is passively

[left ledge]

im glad they nerfed it

if they didnt

i wouldnt have done lura as deathstalker

WHICH WAS MY PROPHECY

[tepid trellis]

id have still played trickster

i think its just overall better

for the fight

[left ledge]

is it

there's like no adds to hit

you just hit lura the entire time

[tepid trellis]

its slightly more bursty

so better on p3 / p4 too

[left ledge]

i mean p3 last so long

[tepid trellis]

which arent very long duration wise

p3 is like 2min

[left ledge]

does trickster burst outdo DS over ~1:30

i know it does in shorter windows

i mean i did ok boss damage

but i def kinda trolled on my kill

[tepid trellis]

it was 2:20 on my kill but we had low dmg in p3

people are phasing super fast now

and yeh im fairly sure on a 1:30 timer

trickster wins

[native zodiac]

p3 is insanely short now

you even skip the memory game on right side now

[left ledge]

yeah

we skipped mechanics after second slice

[limber folio]

i went sub

[left ledge]

this was our p3 damage

although for sure my damage was dogshit

one set of blades

263 guidon

garbage stats

[chrome palm]

only ds log is also the highest boss damage log

[west tide]

i kinda want to try sub i just dont have good gear for it as good as my outlaw...

no neck..

[chrome palm]

who couldve predicted this..

[west tide]

bad rings...

i prob sim like 10k less but that doesnt matta

[vale osprey]

I use Salhadar neck on sub ATM, nexus set rings, it's not that big a deal

[left ledge]

yeah my neck and rings ass too

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-hi-hy-hey-gif-8520159980767013609

[left ledge]

i was using crafted + nexus ring

[west tide]

yeah i know its not big deal it just feels bad

[left ledge]

gearing sub is so ass

i swear

[west tide]

like i have to have haste rings and such cause no alleria neck

[shrewd lantern]

double nexus ring

[left ledge]

its never felt this bad before

[chrome palm]

ironically ive been like sub full bis for weeks but havent hit a single outlaw bonus roll

might be time for the ds reclear next week

[west tide]

lemme see what i can do im still early prog on lura

bout to enter p3

[left ledge]

play deathstalker

[vale osprey]

Any other 6 hour guilds out here progging Lu'ra?

[left ledge]

hit 1100 haste

[crystal bone]

it sucks ass

[west tide]

i literally cannot i have to play trickster

[left ledge]

what the helly

[tepid trellis]

10k less than me

so id say not bad

[chrome palm]

tell your hunter to play survival

[west tide]

ok im stayin outlaw nvm man

[left ledge]

did you get second blades

[chrome palm]

fo crystals man

[west tide]

bro i cant hit 1100 haste

[lilac stag]

How do you not have 6 zillion haste from outlaw

[tepid trellis]

my p3 was 20 sec longer than yours

[left ledge]

ah yeah

[west tide]

i have 900

[left ledge]

because we killed post ilvl

i was getting second blades before

[lilac stag]

With flask?

[tepid trellis]

i mean yeh my kill was before CC nerf

[strange chasm]

Is p3 lura free now

?

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[graceful rock]

My blades came back up right when we wiped at 7% last night

[sly shore]

why would it be

[west tide]

i dont see why its more free or not

[tepid trellis]

its the same phase just shorter

[west tide]

only thing is maybe u can skip the last memory game easier

[sly shore]

still need to do 3/4 the mechanics

[strange chasm]

You skip the later stuff making it easier no?

[west tide]

but otherwise its still as hard

[left ledge]

this was a 1% p3 wipe last week

[vale osprey]

You do skip the most dangerous memory game sets now

[tepid trellis]

its the same stuff as earlier in the phase

[left ledge]

i really dont think trickster would be doing that much dps

[west tide]

ok but i do like #2 almost #1 boss dam as outlaw...

[left ledge]

my gear is like turbo shit

[warm marlin]

we skipped second darkarch on our kill

[chrome palm]

can skip the last two mechanics in p3

[left ledge]

this was my gear on that pull

282

[warm marlin]

the sprint to the middle to regroup is crazy

[left ledge]

[tepid trellis]

1 ilvl below me

its not that shit lol

[left ledge]

oh really

your gear pretty shit too

[tepid trellis]

yes

[chrome palm]

damn, you mustve been pumping boss damage then, rank 1 for rogue surely?

[warm marlin]

i will not SPEAK ON MY KILL RNG

i am upset

[left ledge]

this was my raid team

287

honestly though

[west tide]

ok guys should i try it out today then

this is my sub gear

[left ledge]

i tried trickster on lura for a bit

idk what it is i just HATE trickster

[west tide]

just imagine i have 298 main hand ill get it

[chrome palm]

you have a ring with no haste on it

o_O

get npx ring

[limber folio]

wdym he does

[west tide]

bro i only need 700 haste

[left ledge]

he's talking about the crit vers one

[west tide]

i have no mastery man

[left ledge]

ring of the deouvrer

[west tide]

holy fuck

[left ledge]

devourer

[limber folio]

that doesnt matter

[left ledge]

or w/e

[limber folio]

lmao

[tepid trellis]

the way i see it, it does close to the same boss dmg + more add dmg in p1

[west tide]

i have 350 mastery chat

[tepid trellis]

therefor better

[chrome palm]

you really need to loot the alleria neck from vault

its that simple

[west tide]

i did not kill it

[chrome palm]

ok

[left ledge]

yea im just a full boss damage chud

[west tide]

i sat myself on that 1

[left ledge]

we had 0 damage problems with adds

[lilac stag]

Nice weapon enchant

[left ledge]

so i didnt see a reason for me to be a part of it

[west tide]

bro i had this in my bags

[chrome palm]

you could replace the wedding band with npx ring

if youre low on mastery

[left ledge]

also though

[west tide]

ya but it wont be mythic man

[left ledge]

im genuinely enjoying DS more than trickster for bosses

[warm marlin]

add damage 💀

[tepid trellis]

thge more they get overkilled the better

[left ledge]

DS at least has the element of DN tracking

[calm wing]

its cooler

[lilac stag]

Ethical red rogue

[small sleet]

What is dn

[warm marlin]

my tank oneshots the adds bro

[calm wing]

deez nuts

[warm marlin]

who needs dps

[left ledge]

deez nights

[small sleet]

😏

[chrome palm]

ds is definitely more enjoyable in st, at least before the 12.1 rework

[left ledge]

bro is predicting the rework

[shadow lance]

Weaponmaster still sim way higher than 2/2 finality for me. Simc is fixed for sure?

[warm marlin]

avenger's shield pingpong all adds die instantly

[small sleet]

Are you simming on latest

Or weekly

[shadow lance]

Latest always

[left ledge]

can you link sim

[chrome palm]

sub just doesnt function without guidon/tier so rework is basically confirmed

[shadow lance]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tq11atQYzPNRJLHBpMasPH

[left ledge]

i mean weaponmaster still works just dont contribute to apex

[shadow lance]

Is that cuz I run tight haste?

[left ledge]

no

[shadow lance]

Shouldn't

[left ledge]

most likely crit favors wm over finality but idk your stats just yet

thats just what id figure

[shadow lance]

Oh wait

[left ledge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kTc45XhjFRP44CqLpyFvVE

finality sims higher for you

from my run

[shadow lance]

I'm dumb

[left ledge]

your base has potent powder

instead of 2/2 finality

[shadow lance]

Copied the wrong set of talent

Yep ahaha

[calm wing]

I hate chimaerus

[left ledge]

yeah chim is an awful boss

[shadow lance]

Forgot I changed, that point

Exaplins everything

[calm wing]

the one pull where i do nothing we kill it

[small sleet]

The key to chimaerus is to accidentally miss your soak and just tunnel boss damage so you don’t have to waste shit on adds that evaporate

[calm wing]

will try that next time

[left ledge]

its just awful to parse on

know what would be funny

if they brought back s3 DF sub rogue

we tried to dumb down the spec

nobody playing this dogshit anyways

lets just go back

[light finch]

first or second group ?

[surreal orbit]

Always be 2nd group

[warm marlin]

but they areplaying it bro

[light finch]

first group as sub is omega shit

[hollow quest]

What happened in s3 I’ve quitted after s1

[surreal orbit]

Tell your raid lead he’s dumb

[warm marlin]

the rework was a "success"

[left ledge]

that was the most fun iteration of sub rogue

if your definition of fun was suffering

[left ledge]

[surreal orbit]

Never played rogue before feels awesome rn please never change

[warm marlin]

the masses love the changes

[hollow quest]

I just remembering applying bleed to all with sub was hella annoying back then

[warm marlin]

our spec is cooked

[left ledge]

just to tack on more info, we had shadowdust, 2 charges of it + 3 charges of symbols + 2 charges of dance + 1:30 flag + 2:00 blades

[hollow quest]

Damn that’s some fun isn’t it

[left ledge]

there were spreadsheets being made of like 4 ways to pop cds on every single boss

tindral opener was some funny shit

[chrome palm]

Casuals generally don’t care if the spec they play is fun they just want it to be the lowest effort for the highest reward

[left ledge]

you double vanished the opener

LMAO

[hollow quest]

Sounds like some fun indeed

[left ledge]

but god damn

sub FUCKED in s3 df

it actually FUCKED bosses

[ember hound]

i miss it

[calm wing]

1st

[hollow quest]

Now we being fucked

[warm marlin]

"i just wanna top the meters bro"

[left ledge]

i mean honestly

[light finch]

Its good for the class that sub got dumbed down, cause more people will play it, its bad for the people that enjoyed a bit more complex gameplay, but this type of shit doesn't fly with blizzards approach to class balance

[left ledge]

sub would be ok right now if they didnt take 15 shits on nimble flurry

i really dont know why nimble got the nerf it did

so odd

[hollow quest]

Ig blizz just really don’t like rogue

[small sleet]

Because they can’t figure out what to do with psychic link, so having more talents that do aoe with single target was hurting their brain

[native zodiac]

bring back manaforge sub bring back manaforge sub bring back manaforge sub bring back manaforge sub bring back manaforge sub

[chrome palm]

When someone describes having fun on sub this season it’s never about the rotation or mastery it’s usually something like “I can blast in my 12s” which is good for them at least

[left ledge]

manaforge sub wouldnt work

[warm marlin]

what rotation are they gonna master

[left ledge]

it was reliant on double coup

but since coup is the capstone of trickster

you cant put a talent after to make it double

[warm marlin]

press my coup bp macro

[chrome palm]

Nah bro

[small sleet]

I have fun on sub this season because having reduced coggy load means I can do everything else I should have been doing in keys and raid without making any mistakes anymore

[left ledge]

not to mention they def not bringing back flag

[chrome palm]

A 3% gain min max is just two weeks away

It’s gonna be found shortly

[left ledge]

but anyways since we are discussing the spec with quite a few people here

i have to spread this information

a reminder

[warm marlin]

opfermesser ilvl check?

[left ledge]

we still have this

dogshit

garbage waste of space

[chrome palm]

I really never thought of sub post dust as high coggy load to be honest

[left ledge]

they couldve put so many things in that spot

[hollow quest]

Didn’t it exist even in df and even there it wasn’t played?

[left ledge]

yes

it survived the purge

somehow

[hollow quest]

Lmao

[chrome palm]

Prob around 284 when my shoulders are back I haven’t done voidcores yet

[left ledge]

"oh its played in pvp"

[light finch]

Blizzard Fix: To make Goremaw Viable we reduced Energy Gain inside Shadowdances by 50%.

[left ledge]

then put it as a pvp talent

[chrome palm]

Classic Tuesday reclear when it didn’t work

[left ledge]

you know

you should be banned

[warm marlin]

they told this to me

then i pvped this tier

you dont play that dogshit talent there either

[small sleet]

Yeah I don’t think it was like crazy high cognitive load but it was definitely higher than it is now

[left ledge]

yeah

[left ledge]

i know

its literally just a waste of space

genuinely no idea how it made it past the purge

like we lost FLAGELLATION

BUT NOT GOREMAW

[hollow quest]

Let’s just put blind on dance next time again instead of shadow blades so we lose again 30 energy

[left ledge]

LMAOOOOOOO

flag has been a staple since s2 of SL

[small sleet]

Goremaws bite is the highest damage talent available, fuu and eleem are just conspiring to keep the op talent build for themselves

[chrome palm]

I want to run a 19 or something tracking only secret technique and a “can I finish” combo points indicator, because I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t lose that much damage

[warm marlin]

flag was more iconic to me than sblades

[hollow quest]

[left ledge]

goremaw legit does 50% less damage than shadowstrike

[light finch]

Sorry have no time anymore to discuss, got to do my job as main class designer for Rogues, had 3 years of maternity leave.

[left ledge]

and doesnt interact with any of our other talents

[chrome palm]

Just buff strike by 200x bro it’s fine

[calm wing]

2nd season of WoW and 1st season of playing Rogue, only pugging dungeons. Is this good?

[left ledge]

cant wait to use goremaw with my 60000 haste deathstalker build so i can fit 400 GCDs in dance

[hollow quest]

Pugging is really something in midnight

[left ledge]

pugging is on a steady downward trend

they get worse every season somehow

i thought it was the worst it could be in TWW s3

[warm marlin]

idk i just get very sad now every time i think about sub

[left ledge]

then i pugged s1 midnight

[warm marlin]

i think i need a detox

[hollow quest]

I had a 14 today the wl was below the tank

[left ledge]

oooh our fall from grace

is a tragic one

it once was a spec of intense concentration and planning

now we're just slop button mashers

[light finch]

Goremaw Change: Does Damage blabla and causing your next 3 finishing moves to trigger an extra Shadow Clone.

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[warm marlin]

fdk on lura was significantly harder to play well than outlaw btw

[left ledge]

this would unironically be overpowered with deathstalker

[warm marlin]

which was miles harder than sub on any other fight

[native zodiac]

🤝

[chrome palm]

Remember when they changed a single talent for rogue in 12.0.5 that we don’t even play and then proceeded to make the 12th mm rework of the past two years (worst one to date)

[warm marlin]

i wanna level this but this spec is so useless

have never tried ele

[left ledge]

yeah i mean listen

[native zodiac]

who cares its fun

[left ledge]

some simplification changes i could understand

[warm marlin]

true

is it stormbringer?

[left ledge]

like shadow techniques definitely needed to get changed right

[native zodiac]

nah totemic

[chrome palm]

I hate ancient arts so much LOL

[left ledge]

nah i meant like

old sht

the one where you had to track your autos

i think that was actually kind of toxic

[warm marlin]

:/

[native zodiac]

i think m+ is storm

[left ledge]

new sht reminds me of anticipation

[native zodiac]

i havent look into stuff much though

[left ledge]

wait im saying new

[native zodiac]

literally just leveled

[warm marlin]

i am actually trying to abandon ship and get off this class

[left ledge]

its been years since sht changed

[warm marlin]

so i need to prio gearing things that might be relevant

[left ledge]

i need get off this discord

[limber folio]

we hit enrage

100m left

[chrome palm]

Bingus is passing on the class of domination to another unfortunate soul

[native zodiac]

its insane

i cant wait for my first MRT note popup

[light finch]

Gloomblade enthusiast gonna be Voidray Enthusiast

[warm marlin]

there must always be.. a useless chud

[west tide]

chat is this good

wait i dont have my weapon upgraded yet

[small sleet]

Yes I am proud of you

[prime dirge]

Yo how come two crafted daggers would deal more damage than have 1 full 298 dagger + a crafted one?

[limber folio]

@tepid trellis

[west tide]

u are not replacing the embellish properly

[warm marlin]

how many deaths do you have to hit the hard enrage

[alpine wraith]

you only need 1 light to mess u

[warm marlin]

we had 5 dead 15s out from when it died and we were like 10s away from it exploding

[alpine wraith]

and 10 peopel die

[prime dirge]

Oh no way?

[calm wing]

I played league for 7 years, pugging is nothing compared to average EU soloq experience

[hollow quest]

Well I can understand that even tho today I felt like a booster in 10-12 keys for my shards

[calm wing]

How is sub on Drakes ?

[chrome palm]

Pugging title is really bad it gets much worse

Especially as off meta especially as rogue

[calm wing]

I have no friends so pugging is the only way

[fossil forge]

only 1 thing worse than offmeta dps

Offmeta tank

[chrome palm]

And also like half the people in high io lfg are boosted and the other half have a full google doc written about their crimes against humanity

[warm marlin]

so real

[calm wing]

oh yea some Veangeance DH was crashing out abt that in the guild chat

[fossil forge]

what a time to be a vdh player

[chrome palm]

Just swap spec to the best dps in the game

[fossil forge]

Truer

[calm wing]

They're lame tho

[chrome palm]

Dh meta for the last 3 consecutive seasons, the 5/6 of the last seasons, they’ll still find a way to complain

[fossil forge]

💯

[calm wing]

So, how is Sub on Vaelgor & Ezzorak fight?

[lilac stag]

It’s strikes. It bps

[fossil forge]

very good but compared to purple class worthless

[calm wing]

[fossil forge]

Only 60k gap

[hollow quest]

60k

[calm wing]

60k

[fossil forge]

this was before we got 298 items though

so its probably even worse now

[hollow quest]

It is

[fossil forge]

[calm wing]

291 is insane wtf

[hollow quest]

Well mostly padding on the adds ig tbh but yeah

[shrewd lantern]

291 generally means you got good vaults

[hollow quest]

Not the gear he meant the dmg

[shrewd lantern]

druid in my guild is 290

[hollow quest]

That kinda odd

[calm wing]

hmm

that actually is kinda odd

[hollow quest]

Im almost 286

[shrewd lantern]

287

[calm wing]

284 Here

[shrewd lantern]

otherwise i could be 288

waiting on vault before sending 40

[hollow quest]

Nice

Sunday if I’m lucky I will get something from vs myth

[shrewd lantern]

sundays

what the helly

[hollow quest]

Ye

[shrewd lantern]

sunday aint a vault day!

[hollow quest]

Huh no I mean from the raid itself

[spiral pewter]

is 387 crit, 809 haste, 1236 mast and 170 vers good stats for M+? puzzle box + alnseer trinkets

[hollow quest]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1232770176571805697/puzzlebox.gif

[small sleet]

i know its 1100 haste for deathstalker st, but whats the lowest i could realistically go given i am not a dad with 3 kids

[shrewd lantern]

stats matter less than you think

[spiral pewter]

ok but my question still stands

[shrewd lantern]

idk are the trinkets mythic

if not fix that

[small sleet]

your stats are fine, mastery is maybe a bit high with puzzle box

[spiral pewter]

both are 298

[shrewd lantern]

guidon probably better but idk

rogue is so poopy in keys

[small sleet]

rogue op in keys

do not listen

[shrewd lantern]

[spiral pewter]

i mean im doing very competitive damage in the 18's and 19's im doing

[shrewd lantern]

just because i mog shitter pugs doesnt mean class is good

i can go on dk and pay 1/4th the attention

and do the same damage

[small sleet]

playing dk is cheating

[shrewd lantern]

@warm marlin describe the dk m+ experience

[limber folio]

[shrewd lantern]

of ignoring every mechanic in the world

[limber folio]

only took too many pulls

[shrewd lantern]

you see but dk needs a raid buff

[hollow quest]

At least it’s a cool number

[shrewd lantern]

they're clearly down bad

!

[earnest crane]

Love my kick button

[shrewd lantern]

i mean dont get me wrong rogue damage is fine its just

[hollow quest]

[shrewd lantern]

i actually have to try while a dk just jorks it

[shrewd lantern]

SPEAKING OF

where the fuck is that dk's kicks

[warm marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/stable-ronaldo-pay-phone-hahahaha-lol-gif-20871661

[earnest crane]

it was a buyer for a +16

[hazy breach]

Perma tricks though

So comfy

[shrewd lantern]

does it matter if a dk eats one melee

though

[hollow quest]

He doesn’t need it he tanks the incoming spells

[shrewd lantern]

ngl most pugs you run into in 16s feel like buyers anyway

[warm marlin]

i took the tankbuster on mythic vorasius this week when my pug tank died

[shrewd lantern]

so at least you got paid for it

[earnest crane]

not enough

[calm wing]

[shrewd lantern]

i remember my fdk talked about eating 5 melees from the big guy on court

yes 5 melee swings from the melee boss

[warm marlin]

I also took 30 melee swings + a tankbuster in a row from heroic lura helping some friends

[shrewd lantern]

like if a tank cant get threat in 4-5 gcds

what the fuck is he doing

gooning to some feet on the other monitor?

[earnest crane]

cmon bois rogues are tanky too we are not that bad

just speak about dmg

[warm marlin]

it is mildly cerebral at times i cannot lie

[shrewd lantern]

we got power crept by most melee

besides enhance

on tankyness

[warm marlin]

think of how many mechanics you can cloak

[shrewd lantern]

[warm marlin]

now you're doing it 3 times as often and can only use it preemptively

[shrewd lantern]

good thing cloak is a shorter cd than ams

oh wait-

NVM

[earnest crane]

i dont LOS AA big add at all on a +19

[shrewd lantern]

neither does a dk

[warm marlin]

i dont think it broke my ams on a 20

maybe i was like 90% hp after

[earnest crane]

just use evasion feint together on last cast

[shrewd lantern]

"maybe i was 90% hp after"

mfw

this is a dps pov btw

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel

[shrewd lantern]

but dw guys

dk is bad because it doesnt have a raid buff

thats how it works right?

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah power level time

That plus timewalking week is gg

[surreal orbit]

rogues are a healer buff

[swift tinsel]

Yeah just ignore add grips on chim, Lura, crown

Dimmy

[earnest crane]

yea parse 100 healer log by targeting a rogue

[shrewd lantern]

also beloren

[warm marlin]

grip is op on beloren as well

[swift tinsel]

But yes they’re quite down bad in utility

[surreal orbit]

inb4 outlaw gets a new talent that is effectively mass grip

[swift tinsel]

If you ignore how they’re completely busted

[timid rose]

Pretty sure my dk is tired of me yelling at him to grip when it's on cool down 🙂

[earnest crane]

i dont know but every raid i know has 2 dk and they cry if they miss one

[lilac stag]

i'm still in TW jail (boost to 80)

[warm marlin]

I should level 3 characters soon

might be time to grind some timewalking

[shrewd lantern]

i probably should but then i gotta set up cdm

[earnest crane]

already have 4 might go for 5

[shrewd lantern]

instead of just importing like wa

[warm marlin]

are you still using arc

[shrewd lantern]

no bcdm

havent bothered

[warm marlin]

i will say setting up a new spec in acdm takes like 10-15 at most

[shrewd lantern]

i should switch to ayijie or whatever it is

idk i lowk log for the week

after raid

[warm marlin]

the quest to leave the yellow spec might require many classes

[shrewd lantern]

i got my diarrhea pvp enchant

too