#subtlety

1 messages Ā· Page 899 of 1

abstract cosmos
#

thx

stuck lance
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Yeah but having your sectech hits after buffs is painful

swift tinsel
#

well its either drop down to 550 haste and use flask or recraft and regem to 672 with the gear they have

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and reroll for better haste gear

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or swap equipped gems to full haste to bump it up further

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its not like being below 700 haste but above 670 haste makes the spec unplayable

abstract cosmos
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imma run a latest rq

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just to be sure

swift tinsel
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you just need to be on top of your button presses

abstract cosmos
#

okay so

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imma lose 0.3% with void ring equipped

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but

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ill be on 700

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bang on

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worth ?

swift tinsel
#

the sim doesn't need as much haste as you so it will undervalue it

limber folio
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i dont get this

swift tinsel
#

so if it gets you as close to 700 as you can get that's good

abstract cosmos
#

wdym'

stuck lance
#

It will feel better and more forgiving

limber folio
#

i mean if you dont have monk and dh in raid thats kinda crazy

swift tinsel
#

that doesn't affect their haste

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which is the question atm

dusky yacht
#

I got haste belt from Chim tonight so was able to recraft dagger and bracers to crit/mastery, 1.1k mastery with flask now and 702 haste HOLY

image.png
abstract cosmos
#

@limber folio wdym simming with everyything

swift tinsel
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all buffs enabled

abstract cosmos
#

oh

limber folio
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everything but pi

abstract cosmos
#

idk

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im new to simming

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i kinda know it

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but not alot

stuck lance
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Check on bottom to see what's disabled

abstract cosmos
#

ye done it

stuck lance
#

Thats pretty damn good lol

abstract cosmos
#

so do i just take the 0.2% loss

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for 700 haste

stuck lance
#

Unless you can hit your buttons on gcd perfectly every pull šŸ˜›

abstract cosmos
#

i do

stuck lance
#

And get all sectech hits before blades cause some are delayed by a second or so

dusky yacht
#

I think it's 0.6/1.2 sec delay on sectec hits so you have to get the second sectec into blades with 1.2 sec left on blades

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If I'm not mistaken

abstract cosmos
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i always do it on 1.2%

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sec

dusky yacht
#

But it's doable with 700 haste and guidon

stuck lance
#

They were deciding whether .3% dps loss or 650 haste was better

abstract cosmos
#

yes

dusky yacht
#

I mean honestly take almost any dps loss until you get 700 haste

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If you got guidon

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Like realistic dps loss

abstract cosmos
#

the ring i have now equipped its a 0.2% loss

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and i have guidon

dusky yacht
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0.2% is nothing compared to missing the second sectec window

abstract cosmos
#

its just weird its telling me to choose crit ring

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over other rings

dusky yacht
#

The sims are a bot

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You need breathing room

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And then once you'd get below a certain level of haste it would tell you to get more haste

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It's a bit schizo when it comes to haste

abstract cosmos
#

so should i stick to it ?

dusky yacht
#

Stick to 700 haste and rest into mastery or crit, preferring mastery slightly

abstract cosmos
#

67% crit without raid buffs

dusky yacht
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Literally anything else the sims tell you is nonsense

abstract cosmos
#

is fine ?

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i mean

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mastery sorry

dusky yacht
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It's not bad

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I have 69% without flask unbuffed

stuck lance
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Mastery does gain way more value with any cleave is nice to have a set with lots of it

dusky yacht
#

We are about same ilvl

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You are fine

abstract cosmos
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mines with pot tho

dusky yacht
#

But like

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The difference is going to be minimal

soft grotto
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i have 79% and i had to use haste pot

dusky yacht
#

We are talking about like

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Maybe a % or even less

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Flask* guys, pot is agility

soft grotto
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yeah flask* garf

dusky yacht
#

Also if you are simming single target

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Crit will be slightly more valuable than mastery I'm pretty sure

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You have to understand the sims are not perfect

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They do not 100% accurately represent reality in the game

stuck lance
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To be fair they were worried about a .3% loss

dusky yacht
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Well yeah but like this you're just going to lose your mind lmao

stuck lance
#

I still play rogue man what are you talking about

dusky yacht
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Fair point

abstract cosmos
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interseting

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i was testing

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recrafts

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now look

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@dusky yacht but it seems i could lose a lot of haste

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what do u think

dusky yacht
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I mean

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Like to me that hardly makes sense why would you get your neck recrafted to mastery crit when it's such a ridiculously good haste provider

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And then it tells you to use mastery flask

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It's legit hallucinating

abstract cosmos
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even if it was crit haste

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would seem more legit

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tbh

dusky yacht
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And yeah then it would be closer to my setup

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I use ring set too

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And I got the same belt

abstract cosmos
#

i hate simming

dusky yacht
#

Same legs

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Honestly just

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Stop simming, try to get 700 haste and the rest into mastery >= crit, leaning towards mastery if possible

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My stats are 686 crit, 702 haste, 934 mastery, with only 1 oils on my offhand weapon (I use sharpening stone on mainhand)

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I prefer this over pure mastery stacking because I like some crit

craggy quest
dusky yacht
# craggy quest <:PES_Hmmm:652091181983072266>

BiS is nonsense for us anyway it depends entirely on what you've got already, a non-BiS item that gets you over 700 haste with guidon is going to be better if it has same ilvl almost no matter what tbh

open vortex
craggy quest
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which i find funny

abstract cosmos
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oh'

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thanks

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lmao

dusky yacht
craggy quest
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the cheat sheet guide says the war within as well

somber sun
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a bit out of context, but anyone getting rare crashes since 12.0.5 ?

abstract cosmos
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i did on AA'

dusky yacht
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Guildies did in raid tonight, one of our tanks at least

somber sun
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bro I swear its so cancer

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imagine being in a trial

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and this shit comes up

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I wouldnt even wish it upon my worst enemy

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ooh might actually be just dbm

placid pivot
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If I get a 99 parse on chimaerus and voracious do you think I can get into a top 100 guild

somber sun
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nah

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you need consistency

placid pivot
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What if I was a e girl

somber sun
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maybe

dusky yacht
placid pivot
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Damn

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Life not fair šŸ˜©

dusky yacht
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Just get two melons and tuck it in there

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You'll be fine

somber sun
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I mean

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its 2026

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he can turn into femboy

placid pivot
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I can say Iā€™m a druid

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Irl

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Guys is sub better for raid

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For the harder bosses

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
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@dusky yacht fixed it

image.png
dusky yacht
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Now I just need to get my guild to prog there

dusky yacht
placid pivot
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Yeah thatā€™s all I need

abstract cosmos
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65% mastery

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without

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flask

warm marlin
dusky yacht
placid pivot
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Whereā€™s your alleria neck @abstract cosmos

warm marlin
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pc restart fixed it though

placid pivot
#

Heroic at least fan

dusky yacht
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But what's the number on your haste rating?

open depot
placid pivot
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Fam

open depot
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67 pulls of L'ura

abstract cosmos
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@dusky yacht whats ur mastery with flask

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?

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
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how much haste are u running ?

open depot
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19%

dusky yacht
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702 with only oil on offhand

dusky yacht
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Stop confusing the poor person

open depot
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Surely you run a bit more haste

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account for human error

dusky yacht
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I already am

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684 is breakpoint

placid pivot
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Bruh why yā€™allā€™s maxing out mastery when crits better for single target

dusky yacht
open depot
hallow mortar
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if you go yolo all mastery, crit will be better on ST

placid pivot
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Thatā€™s the move at least for raid

dusky yacht
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If you go yolo all crit, mastery will be better on ST

placid pivot
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Yeah my point is balancing the stats

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Sorry for the confusion

dusky yacht
#

If you go yolo all haste, you become the Loa of Speed and your character permanently has a buff that makes it look like it's smoking crack

somber sun
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same

dusky yacht
hallow mortar
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the one week we have with smoke, crit was just better than mastery at any point, but with current talents mastery = crit

somber sun
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and addon settings get rolled to previous state

open depot
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I try to get all stats to 33% that way my stat budget

sharp bolt
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at what point does mastery start diminishing returns?

dusky yacht
placid pivot
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Yeah low key not bad but I like my shits at around 30~ I found as a sweet spot @dusky yacht

dusky yacht
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For exactly no reason whatsoever

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I just like that number

open depot
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What boss you progging on these days Yoru?

placid pivot
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Iā€™m p sure with ring procs u probably even want a little more crit

dusky yacht
open depot
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Oof

placid pivot
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Damn u gonna be eating on alleria tho

dusky yacht
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But my guilds been a bit funky lately with prog, we're testing trials and it's resulted in us somehow having difficulty with bosses we were already wrecking before

placid pivot
#

YOU FINNABE GEEKIN ON ALLERIA PROG

open depot
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Trials on prog or farm?

dusky yacht
#

I don't know what's going on tbh

open depot
#

in my guild trial and raider is the same thing tbh, it is just a role for fun

dusky yacht
#

But my parses are better and I'm playing pretty good

open depot
#

Glad to hear that!

placid pivot
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u also gotta look at guild politics

finite lark
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Hello boys , finally got my guidon after an awful lot amount of time. Any tips and tricks besides wait 1s after cast then send it? Do i change secondaries or whats the vibez?

dusky yacht
hallow mortar
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even RWF guild plays trials on race, thats non factor

open depot
placid pivot
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Skoop what r u progging on

sharp bolt
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Is there a point at which Mastery becomes less effective than Crit for AoE damage? Like 1380? or 1500? 1800?

hallow mortar
#

foe aoe propably not

placid pivot
#

1280 I thought was the dr for all stats

open depot
placid pivot
#

Dammmmmn

somber sun
placid pivot
#

Me still on alleria

hallow mortar
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alleria is atealst good rogue boss

dusky yacht
placid pivot
#

After the nerf so many guilds got alleria kill

steady plume
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Best all leather comp for rogue? Just lvld my brew, want to get him geared by spamming 10s

placid pivot
#

Is voidspire the true CE or lura

open depot
hallow mortar
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you have 3 CE

open depot
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I wasnt sadly

steady plume
open depot
#

Alleria is a joke now, right? After the nerf

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It already was sort of a joke of a dps check and more of a dance boss

hallow mortar
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we killed before nerf and outrfirst rekill after nerf isnt that easy

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but we have like 3 or 4 new people in raid

placid pivot
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Two augishas? @open depot

open depot
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Two augs, 3 mages, 2 rogues

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we got it all

dusky yacht
placid pivot
#

Let me pull up on my goofy ahh ele shaman

dusky yacht
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That can't be a coincidence

placid pivot
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He 276 but he getting there

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šŸ˜‚

open depot
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both shamans gone today, so ran the double rogue

dusky yacht
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By which he means he was multiboxing rogue btw

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Without macros, just straight up toekeying

sharp bolt
# somber sun use this addon

I just downloaded that addon. It is showing me what the current penalty is, but how do I see what penalty will be applied at each breakpoint?

open depot
placid pivot
#

Yo @sharp bolt trust me just get around 30 crit and rest into mastery trust and get around 700 haste with guidon trinket

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Whatever gear you can muster

dusky yacht
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Bro I made a coffee during break like 2 hours ago in raid

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I just noticed it

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Cold coffee it is

sharp bolt
placid pivot
#

Donā€™t even have to sim that hard the rotation for sub is brainerdead

open depot
slate fable
dusky yacht
placid pivot
#

Yeah skoop is progging lura

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Just copy him bro

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You know what class is also not that deep? Ele sham. Just hit 100% mastery and the rest doesnā€™t matter

open depot
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700 - 750 haste or w/e you comfortable with to get 2 sectech in SB

placid pivot
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Same for dks just slam crit and mastery it doesnā€™t matter

open depot
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then just crit / mastery

placid pivot
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Yeah and delete ur character if you have even one piece of versa

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(Itā€™s cooked)

somber sun
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haste as well then

tidal solstice
open depot
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vers is fine

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makes u die less, makes you look better in your guild

frosty sinew
#

how are healers supposed to parse if i take vers on gear

placid pivot
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Oh no.. you got versā€¦

open depot
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meet the gang

caa9f83030c9648dcb26f755343ae4fc.png
frosty sinew
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LOL

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imagine if you didnt have vers though

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they could have greens

open depot
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versus gigachad skoopi

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4 healing Belo'ren did them dirty

frosty sinew
#

this guys healing like crazy

dusky yacht
placid pivot
#

Yo 100 parse on saladbar what healing talents you go bro?

open depot
#

Flaming my healers on Vorasius

lilac stag
frosty sinew
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with how shit this tier is for parsing

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maybe we should all try to parse healing

sharp bolt
placid pivot
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Rogues really donā€™t take any dmg tho

warm marlin
frosty sinew
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i've done been

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boss dam gang

placid pivot
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Only damage that matters is boss dps

frosty sinew
lilac stag
# sharp bolt hero gaze and champion guidon

With champ guidon get 690-700 haste. Get the rest into mastery / crit. You wonā€™t hit DR at current ilvl unless youā€™re way over budgeted mastery and using puzzle box.

placid pivot
#

Damn bros linking real parses

frosty sinew
#

someone stole my rank 1 vorasius

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before it locked in

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šŸ˜ 

west tide
#

my sub gear is so bad

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i dont have the neck i sim like 119

dusky yacht
sharp bolt
warm marlin
placid pivot
#

Yo on lightblinded do you hit black powder on dance or just evis

warm marlin
#

have i missed that many

west tide
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if in 284.94 will one upgrade get me to 285

frosty sinew
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i just sit chim on reclears

lilac stag
dusky yacht
lilac stag
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do with it what you want.

warm marlin
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i didnt even realize it was week 7

frosty sinew
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i don't have alleria neck

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but i swear it's not even that much better

sharp bolt
lilac stag
#

then figure it out on your own.

west tide
placid pivot
#

Damn bro check the pins then lol

west tide
#

im playin law on lura

lilac stag
frosty sinew
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and my guild won't reclear alleria

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so i just gotta pray for it from vault

sharp bolt
frosty sinew
#

probably won't be reclearing anything from next week on

dusky yacht
placid pivot
#

BROS GEEKIN

warm marlin
#

tell tarz hes old or something

frosty sinew
#

tarz is leaving on lura prog

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for a week

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so toxic

lilac stag
#

Guess he needs to ask the addon dev how to figure out how to work it. No advice needed

warm marlin
#

at least dk isnt important there right

frosty sinew
#

we have him gone

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and a crystal holder gone next week

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gonna be fun

warm marlin
#

go next

lilac stag
#

trust me bro. Addon works great.

placid pivot
#

Yo u guys notice frost dk pumping in raid

lilac stag
#

Easy to understand.

placid pivot
#

šŸ‘€

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Frost dk?

warm marlin
#

yeah frost dk does infinte st

frosty sinew
#

my dk is playing frost on lura

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it's doing good boss dam

lilac stag
#

funny what buffs can do

warm marlin
#

i am playing it on lura

lilac stag
#

Ainā€™t it

warm marlin
#

funny though

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unholy is still like top 3

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they just decided to buff the other dk spec to decidedly number 1

shrewd lantern
#

do people really pad that boss?

frosty sinew
#

i mean on boss dam

lilac stag
placid pivot
#

Yeah bro blistercreep pad

warm marlin
#

and trinkets

frosty sinew
#

i think people do try to pad off adds if they're close?

shrewd lantern
#

i mean i dont think vora it changes much?

lilac stag
warm marlin
#

i have to go runeforge my weapon if i want to swap

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the horror

frosty sinew
#

i mean i'm rank 3 on boss dam

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and rank 14 on overall

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so add damage matters but not all that much i guess

shrewd lantern
#

i only had like 400k to blistercreeps

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on mine

placid pivot
#

Next week yall upgrading vora dagger or belo dagger

hazy breach
#

Gotta get the 1.1k haste deathstalker reps in now if youre gonna be a boss connoisseur

frosty sinew
#

ye i have the neck

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definitely

#

šŸ™‚

hazy breach
#

Can craft engi boots garf_sit

warm marlin
shrewd lantern
#

it was mostly sectech hitting them

frosty sinew
#

is deathstalker actually going to be better pure st?

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šŸ™

lilac stag
hazy breach
#

Like 3.5% in sims

frosty sinew
#

god damnit

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one day i'll get neck from my vault

shrewd lantern
#

lmao rank 1 vora now

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has 7m to blisters

frosty sinew
#

stinkin padders smh

shrewd lantern
#

i think i was rank 2 overall for a lil

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while having 0 add damage that wasnt just blisters being hit by sectech

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during cd

warm marlin
#

my days in the sun are over

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it was a good couple seasons

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we all get old and washed

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dk retirement home

shrewd lantern
#

i mean his kill was also a minute longer

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so he got a 4th blades cast

somber sun
#

alone on this one

warm marlin
#

what cope blud

somber sun
warm marlin
#

take me back to lou

somber sun
#

yo guys

warm marlin
#

the good old days

somber sun
#

is there a way to make damage numbers small

lilac stag
#

DK the BM of melee ranged

warm marlin
#

they made us go frost bro

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now im actually melee

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icant

lilac stag
#

long arms no more

warm marlin
#

"long" arms

lilac stag
#

Acrobatic Frost Strike?

shrewd lantern
#

lol rank 1 boss for vora

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is outlaw by over 7k

frosty sinew
#

nerf outlaw man

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too op

lilac stag
#

How many 3/4 rolls?

somber sun
#

the spec is from our family

obsidian crag
#

are we getting un-capped myth crests next week or something?

somber sun
#

its fine

frosty sinew
#

lol

jade oasis
#

bro

shrewd lantern
#

54% jackpot

somber sun
#

just keep hating on frost mages

somber sun
frosty sinew
#

i mean tbf it's not too far away people just have enough myth crests to max everything

shrewd lantern
#

yeah

frosty sinew
#

next week i'm maxed

shrewd lantern
#

we're like 2-3 resets

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probably

lucid jackal
#

Im like 3 or 4 resets away OMEGALUL

hazy breach
shrewd lantern
#

bel dead so

frosty sinew
#

i mean ye i know i'm an outlier

shrewd lantern
#

3x 282

#

maybe?

frosty sinew
#

i've saved a lot of crests from 4/6 vaults and just raid loot

lucid jackal
#

Jeff bezos over here telling us cost of living lowkey fine

frosty sinew
#

i also fuckin rerolled legs on my shitty rogue split

shrewd lantern
#

there was a guy posting here earlier

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that was 287

frosty sinew
#

to save crests on main

shrewd lantern
#

or sum shit

frosty sinew
#

i am 287 šŸ™

jade oasis
#

bc i have no crests

frosty sinew
#

i got myth cloak week 2 i think

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from imp

shrewd lantern
#

i think im at least 4 resets off

frosty sinew
#

and that shit is still 2/6

shrewd lantern
#

i took a myth helm from my vault never could upgrade because socket hc

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then got one from paladins

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gg rip that vault

frail path
#

After a night of pugging, seems I wasn't the only one having a rough time

image.png
shrewd lantern
brisk raptor
#

!aa

wicked joltBOT
#

Apex talent optimization:

  • Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
    If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).
shrewd lantern
#

ive had 3-4 myth items in my bags i cant upgrade

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i mean the fastest way to get it fast is if you got 282 vaults asap

#

ig

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and actually take

frosty sinew
#

ye gotta get lucky with vault on the weeks you kill a 4/6 boss

shrewd lantern
#

if you didnt sit cosmos

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and pull alleria neck from vault

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big save

lucid jackal
#

Sat on paladins, alleria, beloren OMEGALUL

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Tier = over

frosty sinew
#

i got the salad man neck from vault after alleria kill

#

ye that's doomed for sure

shrewd lantern
#

does it come 282

frosty sinew
#

the alleria neck?

shrewd lantern
#

no sal's

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if you killed cosmos

frosty sinew
#

ye

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it was 4/6

shrewd lantern
#

also idk bel seems

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not worth to hold sc anymore

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maybe im tripping

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wont see that chud agane until the windchime dies though

frosty sinew
#

yep i aint seeing that boss for awhile

warm marlin
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
frosty sinew
#

kinda hope to get ring from it in vault though

shrewd lantern
#

im just using npx rings

weary tree
lucid jackal
#

I'm guarenteed ring from bonus roll This reset

shrewd lantern
#

does lura make your loot 285

lucid jackal
#

Still lowest ilvl in human history but oh well

shrewd lantern
#

or is it still 282

lucid jackal
#

4/6

shrewd lantern
#

but yeah i mean if you pull one of the 289s natty

#

its a big crest save

weary tree
#

I did

frosty sinew
#

i'm using bond of light and myth pit ring atm

weary tree
#

Got beloren ring in vault

frosty sinew
#

probably not bis but i got them at 6/6 myth so meh

shrewd lantern
#

was it 282?

#

i imagine

weary tree
#

Eh I got 2 weeks ago don't remember lol

shrewd lantern
#

i assume it upgrades the earlier boss stuff to 4/6 too

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but i have double myth npx rings

frosty sinew
#

my bond of light was from vault at 4/6 after we killed beloren

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and got me the 285 achieve without needing to spend crests

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was kinda huge

weary tree
#

Think it was 4/6 ye

shrewd lantern
#

i mean ig next week when we get

#

298 weps

#

bel timings are gonna be so cooked

weary tree
#

Just push it

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And skip more

shrewd lantern
#

yeha i mean i dont think we bank sc anymore

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i did it this week and it felt awful

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next week idk you probably push before 2mins

weary tree
#

Gonna be interesting to see timings

shrewd lantern
#

to egg?

weary tree
#

Ye

shrewd lantern
#

so probably have to sb on pull

weary tree
#

1:30 if not less

shrewd lantern
#

to have it for egg

#

cant hold for first dive spawns

weary tree
#

Doubt it

shrewd lantern
#

lowkey its good for us

#

on damage

#

since we will have damage for both

#

but ye likely wont need to hold sc since everyone will be doing big dam

weary tree
#

It works out for timings but yeah miss dmg on adds

shrewd lantern
#

felt so weird casting a 3rd sb

#

and phasing to 2nd egg

#

before 4th

#

ahh well boss ded

weary tree
#

Haven't reclesred beloren in a while

shrewd lantern
#

i mean it died this week felt shit

#

with extended timer?

#

since you have like, barely any damage for the extended timer

#

all you can really do is dance where your 3rd st is supercharged

#

this tier's been weird imo

#

since cosmos is largely not worth farming until the entire tier over

weary tree
#

Gonna have to do for boosts

#

Probably

#

Spend too much gold this season

shrewd lantern
#

yeah

#

I meant more alot dont reclear cosmos

#

while needing to prog bel/lura

#

the other 6 are kinda freelo relatively

dusky yacht
#

Damn is it next week already 298 weap

weary tree
#

Oh yeah for sure

#

As soon as we got close to killing beloren we stopped reclearing that

#

And you can just pug

shrewd lantern
#

i havent done chim in awhile

weary tree
#

For loot

shrewd lantern
#

since i got gaze early

weary tree
#

Lol nice ggs

#

Steal from the dks?

shrewd lantern
#

idk i need a better parse on it

weary tree
#

And others

shrewd lantern
#

no it was from vault

#

dont you love wiping at 1%

#

on a kill that was going to be 99

weary tree
#

Eh first reclear of it, not too bothered by it

Screenshot_20260508_002809_Chrome.jpg
shrewd lantern
#

yeah i mean gaze realistically you pull from vault

#

whos giving it to rogue first

weary tree
#

Yep

#

Had to reroll for it

#

When I was finally assigned for it that shit didn't drop

shrewd lantern
#

vault pulled it then guidon in raid

#

nice lil upgrade from champ box and renown

#

i need to figure out what to bonus roll

#

or i hold

cerulean mirage
#

Warning Signs better then Planned Execution?

hazy breach
cerulean mirage
#

Thank you šŸ™‚

wraith zealot
#

hi guys

#

i wonder if roges still need 700 haste after changes ?

dusky yacht
wraith zealot
#

yea mean sub:)

dusky yacht
trail rover
#

So we maybe should save crests if the voidcores to get 298 are not time gated and just farmable you can easily push to 285 and then get a discount after no?

shrewd lantern
#

only gets you weapons and trinkets

lilac stag
trail rover
#

isnt it 285 average ilvl=

hazy breach
#

Yes

lilac stag
#

285 activates it. You still have to fully upgrade each slot at 20/upgrade

hazy breach
#

But you only get the discounts on items you have at higher ilvl

trail rover
#

oh nvm then

hazy breach
#

Not all items

lilac stag
#

Itā€™s great for alts

shrewd lantern
#

unless you do it on an alt first

#

yeah

lilac stag
#

watching alt rogues come in here at 287 while mains are 283

#

fuck off blizzard

trail rover
#

yeah fk alts this making alts progress faster than mains is such bad design

lilac stag
#

nah. Mains now gearing a rogue have crest advantage of discount and saved 80 crests upgrading their weapons.

upbeat cradle
#

are fdk still dual wield ?

lilac stag
#

assuming 2h

#

but you could look on wcl

upbeat cradle
#

i think i'll just 2h anyways because i wanna play blood more than frost anyways

placid pivot
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
upbeat cradle
#

i've heard the spec was terrible

#

i love playing terrible specs

placid pivot
#

Damn so is sub outperforming outlaw in keys now

hazy breach
#

Well frost DK have been getting big buffs every patch, so now theyre quite insane at ST

tidal solstice
#

i was slammin last night

shrewd lantern
#

outlaw probably better in pugs

#

because pug tanks love pulling 2 mobs

#

only

placid pivot
#

Makes sense

upbeat cradle
#

or they pull 300 mobs and die

shrewd lantern
#

die

#

go offline

placid pivot
#

I got both myth trinkets and myth vora dagger

#

Ready for next week

upbeat cradle
#

i'm hesitating trying to get NXP rings with bonus rolls

errant pagoda
#

look for druid tanks, they are now giga strong

shrewd lantern
#

got mine and idk where else to spend

upbeat cradle
#

i was playing druid but they aren't as fun anymore

shrewd lantern
#

is a pepega

#

always has been

upbeat cradle
#

that's what i did

image.png
#

pressing 3 buttons

#

i don't like it

errant pagoda
#

doesnt matter if you can facetank aa first pull with 3 buttons

upbeat cradle
#

pretty sure the average druid player can macro ironfur to thrash again and just play braindead

placid pivot
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
placid pivot
#

Honestly who cares in 1 to 2 weeks everyoneā€™s gonna be fully geared

upbeat cradle
#

isn't everyone pretty much fully geared already ?

cerulean mirage
#

how do you sim for m+?

alpine wraith
#

dungeon slice

cerulean mirage
#

ty

hazy breach
patent ermine
#

Is there a rule for holding puzzlebox for lining up with shadow blades?

#

Like a cutoff time where it's worth holding

upbeat cradle
#

think of it as a 3min cd trinket

patent ermine
#

Got it

upbeat cradle
#

and use it every 2 shadowblades

wanton pond
#

yo what race shold ii go

lusty narwhal
#

did they overbuff sub or was the 3.5% estimate off?

upbeat cradle
#

mechagnome :^)

wanton pond
#

no

#

lol

fossil forge
#

Panda for minmax

wanton pond
#

panda it isi

#

isnt dwarf better tho overall ?/

fossil forge
#

Doubt

wanton pond
#

slightly less dps bt stoneform dif

fossil forge
#

Double food buff op

wanton pond
#

il go panda screw iit

#

bt panda looks so bad tho

hazy breach
hazy breach
fossil forge
#

Panda feint animation goes hard bro

#

Trust

hazy breach
fossil forge
#

Tell him eleem

wanton pond
#

im race changing rn

#

not even joking

fossil forge
#

kungfugang

wanton pond
#

jst boght 2 wow tokens

somber sun
#

@dusky yacht told you bro

image.png
wanton pond
#

it actally looks sick asf

#

wtf

dusky yacht
somber sun
#

I think I can lowkey apply then

dusky yacht
#

Tell them you can tank for at least 10 seconds

somber sun
#

evasion CoS

#

dish dish dish

tribal blade
#

BIG

#

wait which char name are you

#

got the fear during blades on intermission 2 /cry

#

lost like probably 5-6 seconds of blades time to run out

#

unlucky

ruby sun
#

how much haste should we be aiming for?

lusty narwhal
#

700 with guidon

#

800 without

modern gull
#

if i convern myth crests to hero, do the crests get subtracted from my weekly mythic cap and added to the heroic one?

tribal blade
#

am i misunderstanding

hazy breach
#

No, any conversions have no impact on the cap

modern gull
#

ty

lusty narwhal
#

you lose those myth crests, cant just get em back when you are at cap

modern gull
#

thats what i figured

vestal relic
#

hey elem did you do some tc on what talent to play for min max egg phase on belo?

hazy breach
#

Ye but that was before it was 40s and before cloud cover

viral salmon
#

so is cloud cover in dslice fake

vestal relic
#

ha im asking for after x)

#

i just did some sim cloud cover seems to be the pick

#

but i dont know about the rest of the talent

hazy breach
#

But also im not even sure the best way to play the fight is to hyperoptimize for the burst window anymore

vestal relic
#

in my guild im sure thats my job

valid ocean
#

i doubt it you just win when you get everyone alive to 2 egg phases now

tribal blade
#

+20 secs on egg is huge

vestal relic
#

we had terrible raid night not being able to push under 40% first egg phase

#

pretty sure everyone alive p2 wouldnt be a kill rn

viral salmon
vestal relic
tribal blade
#

1-2 dances worth

#

can sectec>dance>strike spam

viral salmon
vestal relic
hazy breach
fickle jolt
#

Does anyone know if with the vault I only have 1 mythic raid slot and the other 2 are heroic is there a chance to get a heroic and mythic guidon or would it only be one or the other

hazy breach
viral salmon
sweet creek
#

does anyone know if the BiS list should go back to what we were looking at before 12.0.5 because we are back to favoring mastery?

hazy breach
left ledge
#

@hazy breach are DS sims bogged or something with APL?

#

look at how its playing its cds here

hazy breach
#

What about it

left ledge
#

it holds initially to supercharge sectec again, it sometimes dances without sectec, sometimes it strikes first in dance instead of storming

#

so confused as to why

hazy breach
#

Dances with darkest night

left ledge
#

DS just generally dances with DN instead of sectec?

hazy breach
#

Either, but yes

left ledge
#

and the strike instead of storm is that just a bot not caring about delay

#

only does it once weirdly...

image.png
hazy breach
#

Ig its happening because its using the "apex" strike line in that situation

left ledge
#

ah

hazy breach
#

But should probably just storm, thats an edge case

left ledge
#

ok ty

#

was actually clueless about dancing for DN

#

but ig it makes sense to apex + supercharge it

hazy breach
#

Without improved sectech DN actually does more damage than sectech

left ledge
#

yeah that thing fucks

hazy breach
#

Or well, DN+apex

left ledge
#

if only sectec worked fully with apex

young path
#

DSlice currently shows no scrupples 3.6k behind... crazy

grim vector
#

try mast flask

young path
#

still a little over 3k diff

#

w/CC ahead

rain hull
#

Anyone here played sub in 20/21s and can give me a Feedback how u felt? Mby compared to Not beein assa or some shit, i feel like the DMG Profile of sublety is Just Not it for the Higher Keys

young path
#

i did 20 seat w/no scupples... got absolutely smoked by an arms warrior

rain hull
young path
#

from what ive seen outside of raidbot sims and actual keys i've ran, I'm still for CC... it seems way stronger in that environment

#

Seat is for sure an Arms key, they blast in there

vestal relic
#

like what makes it stronger in that env?*

young path
#

yah, in a 14-15, everything dies so fast your dps is going to be extremely inflated unfortunately

#

but its so environment driven from pacing to pull size to restealths to mobs on boss etc

peak ice
#

Wouldnā€™t cc slip as you get hugher, cause the clouds only in the pull for 8s and then itā€™s basically 0

plush roost
#

Did u try simming guidon + cc

young path
#

i can

plush roost
#

Scuples sims higher for me

astral axle
#

there are situations in higher keys tho where like

#

you dont wanna press blades

#

but you wanna still do a dance+sectech

plush roost
#

But im also playing no tfd

astral axle
#

to help finish a pack or w/e

plush roost
#

I suspect cloudcover + tfd

#

And box

peak ice
#

I donā€™t play tfd

astral axle
#

and that inherently gives you less value from cc

plush roost
#

Is a good combination

young path
#

guidon trolls me so bad... even though i know, i still press dance too quick and catch the bug thing... super tilting

plush roost
#

Unironically it lasts so long u can guidon 3 seconds early in m+ and it simply will not matter since youre not trying to snapshot it

hazy breach
#

You dont want to do it too early, else your sectech will be delayed a global or so

young path
hazy breach
#

But also idk, dslice is just scuffed now with haste breakpoints for sub

plush roost
#

How long do packs even last in dslice

#

Like it it just random targets for 3 mins and then a boss?

vestal relic
#

i think it has downtime

hazy breach
#

Its a boss and then random packs with a random size (averaging out to ~7 or so targets)

#

with random downtime yes

vestal relic
#

downtime destroy haste breakpoint for sure no?

plush roost
#

Probably

#

Unironically should do patchwerk 10 minutes 8 targets

peak ice
#

Is it wrong to just sim 5 patchwork for aoe sim lol

plush roost
#

And compare

vestal relic
peak ice
#

Is that an option?

plush roost
#

Can u even sim dslice without downtime

vestal relic
#

at least you have a idea for boss + packs

#

i think you can

#

at least i saw some devourer on youtube editing dslice to have less downtime to try and get a more accurate sim for them

hazy breach
#

It shifts it

#

Which is why you can have haste be negative dps in dslice, because then it ends up secteching earlier, which might mean it misses out on secteching a bigger pack 12 seconds later

serene notch
#

how many GCD's are we aiming for inside a danse window, 7?

hazy breach
#

And then 9 with guidon up

serene notch
#

ok thanks

vestal relic
hazy breach
#

And i havent found a solution to that because its insanely annoying to test APL changes for dslice

#

As changing haste by like 100 suddenly makes it the APL changes -1% instead of +2.5%

#

Idk

vestal relic
#

every downtime is 20 sec so even if you sec tech at the end it should not impact negatively the sim might be better ? would probably make blades window a bit too impactful

hazy breach
#

Every downtime is not 20s

vestal relic
#

i know

#

but you have to trick the sim so haste cdr doesnt impact negatively dps

hazy breach
#

What

vestal relic
#

by doing every downtime is at least 20sec in dslice

hazy breach
#

Well you cant just change the downtime duration

vestal relic
#

wouldnt that make the haste cdr not be detrimental to the dps ?

hazy breach
#

You would have to create an entirely seperate custom dungeonroute thing

#

Which defeats the entire purpose

peak ice
#

Think weā€™re thinking about this too much

sweet meteor
#

Is black powder based on our location compared to everything or our targets location so I can be in the right spot for dragons?

tribal blade
hazy breach
left ledge
#

ngl DS kinda confusing me

#

is it just send dance if DN is up no matter what

#

apart from ensuring 2x dance for blades

vestal relic
plush roost
#

Hmm maybe dungeon route is just the better angle to sim anyway

#

I think dslice sims are just weirdge

plush roost
left ledge
#

do you

#

im finding myself sending dances without sectec

#

idk if thats intended or not tbh

plush roost
#

But for example DN is up, sec tec is in 2/3 gcd you can storm Apex DN, sec tec

left ledge
#

i feel like playing current trickster has rotted my brain

#

i see

#

always want sectec for dance then?

hazy breach
#

But like, thats the case in practice too

#

Idk

#

Just sucks

plush roost
#

Yeah its just cringe to sim idk im a believer in just doing live keys and logging conclusions

left ledge
#

this so weird actually

#

i actually have to track something again on sub playing DS

kind edge
#

!bugs

wicked joltBOT
kind edge
#

is it wrong/not worthy to fish big sectech with apex before sending blades, since this bugged ?

Captura_de_ecra_2026-05-08_022330.png
warm marlin
kind edge
#

im playing wrong then

hazy breach
#

Well the premed bug makes it so you dont really end up using a clone on it anyway

#

But its not like its horrible if you end up apexing sectech, it does about the same damage as if you wouldve used it on a regular eviscerate

kind edge
#

kinda sad there is a bug thing after a bugged thing

hazy breach
#

Welcome to world of warcraft

kind edge
#

enjoy your stay i guess

#

lol

plush roost
#

Eleem what would a bugless sub sim like?

kind edge
#

there is beer on the fridge @hazy breach ?

plush roost
#

So curious

hazy breach
#

No clue

plush roost
#

Lingering darkness apex sec tec

#

Kaboom

#

If only...

kind edge
#

that one breaks my heart

#

i think if they fix it, we will get nerfed

hazy breach
plush roost
#

They fixed it for like 3 days and it broke again lmfao

hazy breach
#

Before they broke it again

plush roost
#

That was a funny convo

tribal blade
#

what even is the amount of loss PP not buffing apex

hazy breach
#

When you have pot up quite a lot

kind edge
#

there is any way of calculate that on sims ? i have not clue if thats possible

hazy breach
#

Napkin math says its like maybe 4% or so on huge pulls with pot

#

Obviously less without pot up, maybe like 1-1.5% overall or something if i had to pull a number out of my ass

tribal blade
#

mm yeah sub def wouldn't be broken if they fixed it

#

but would probably make running haste build more desirable in keys

drifting ether
#

Whatā€™s the reason ds needs 1100 haste?

stuck lance
#

cause lord sim god said so

tribal blade
#

or wait i guess running high mast would also directly affect it too

plush roost
#

Sec tec cdr + dance duration gud for ds which has more baselinendamage outside of mastery/crit

hazy breach
#

What charrend said and the fact that haste is less bad after cap on deathstalker

brisk raptor
#

!aa

wicked joltBOT
#

Apex talent optimization:

  • Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  • Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
    If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).
hazy breach
#

Because more cp = more procs of deathstalkers mark = more darkest nights

novel plaza
#

do i sec tech at the end if my 2nd dance window during shadowblades? or delay tor new dance + sec tech window?

hazy breach
#

Whereas on trickster more cp = more finishers

#

Not as much of a loop

hazy breach
wicked joltBOT
#

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

brisk raptor
#

How many dances are we fitting between blades now?

plush roost
#

Like, 3?

idle echo
#

struggling to time resi key, and idk if thats about players or their spec nerfs

image.png
tribal blade
#

esp in a high target count dungeon like pit

lilac stag
#

man paladins is such a fun fight

novel plaza
brisk raptor
#

It shouldnā€™t, I main uhdk and no way a sub rogue is even close to me unless itā€™s a low key level where things die fast

somber sun
tribal blade
somber sun
#

shuriken storm

tribal blade
#

holy slop

#

i would probably enjoy paladins more if rogue could actually do dmg on it

lilac stag
somber sun
#

do you guys swap to assa

hazy breach
peak ice
#

No

somber sun
#

or just ask for a warm bench

short radish
peak ice
#

I top the rest of the raid

novel plaza
peak ice
#

They can carry me for a fight

somber sun
#

true true

lilac stag
somber sun
#

I see that

tribal blade
peak ice
#

Maybe if I did less than the boomies

#

But theyā€™re just there wasting space anyways

short radish
#

like my ret paladin

tribal blade
hazy breach
#

you linked it twice

somber sun
lilac stag
short radish
novel plaza
#

!

lilac stag
hazy breach
#

While that website might be the most accurate concrete data available, its still not as accurate as it seems. Since the specs people think are better will be played in high keys, and in high keys mobs have more hp so overalls tend to be higher

short radish
lilac stag
#

meanwhile Rogue is benched on the fight that needs atrophic

hazy breach
#

So like a spec people think is good will look better than a spec people think is bad

tribal blade
hazy breach
#

Even if they do the exact same dps

short radish
#

also holy shit the "no raid buff meme" pisses me off so much when warlocks also exist with no raid buff

tribal blade
#

specs people don't play look even worse than they're actually performing

hazy breach
#

Like sub dropping down like 5% dps because assa got buffed back in dragonflight

tribal blade
#

hahaha

peak ice
#

Iā€™m still confused why people went to warrior of all things

short radish
#

like what the fuck is this donkey ass spec doing more damage while being 14 ilvl lower

image.png
#

and i dont even have a trinket

tribal blade
#

speaking of sin i decided to keep rerolling AA

hazy breach
tribal blade
#

to get puzzle and crit ring

#

because i suspect blizz might inevitably do the mega sin buff

short radish
hazy breach
#

But also arms just does good damage and provides a big 5% buff as long as you dont play with stinky casters

short radish
#

i already have my m pbox ready and waiting

hazy breach
#

And its quite tanky

short radish
#

you have to use it on beloran anyway

hazy breach
#

The unholy DKs realized that they can no longer be the best spec in the entire game with no raidbuffs, so they go into melee zug groups to get their buffs and once again because the best spec in the entire game garf_sit

brisk raptor
#

@hazy breach could you explain in a nutshell why you would want would to use a builder if the !aa conditionals are true?

shrewd lantern
#

oh you can roll tert on bonus rolled gear

#

got AA gloves with indest

hazy breach
#

Big + big = good

tribal blade
brisk raptor
#

Makes sense. So the big thing is the supercharged portion of your next finisher

tribal blade
#

yeah for the reason eleem said šŸ™‚

brisk raptor
#

Thanks guys

short radish
#

and hopefully that makes sense

#

the interaction turns your finisher into a builder, so you want to force it to make your finisher into a builder

brisk raptor
#

Seems like those conditionals are fairly rare eh? Cause it would have to be your first finisher after pressing dance as trickster?

short radish
#

you kinda need to be playing suboptimally in order for that to happen

#

which is going into sdance with 0 sht stacks

brisk raptor
#

Makes sense. Iā€™ve been playing DK last two tiers, feels good to be back in this discord. So many helpful people that enjoy the art of rogue

short radish
#

wooooo rogue discord

kind edge
#

blizzard cant nerf our discord atleast, its safe here

lucid jackal
#

It happens fairly often on pull with blades n stuff

kind edge
#

basicly what Guy said, @brisk raptor . its poping all the time with blades, and now that we are back to WS its even more

brisk raptor
# lucid jackal Its not rare

Not doubting your knowledge at all, just curious how itā€™s not rare when the supercharged component seems to be a conditional. As trickster wouldnā€™t that mean thereā€™s only 1 opportunity for it to show up and that being after pressing dance?

lucid jackal
#

Like I said, its common in CDs

#

Not outsidd generall

kind edge
left ledge
#

do we kill tonight

short radish
lucid jackal
brisk raptor
kind edge
#

yes u do 2 dances inside blades, meaning that u want send 2 sechtechs inside blades.
each dances gives u 2 supercharge. and at the first dance you will have tons of apex procs already. u can farm few sht procs before send the cds. when i have full combo points, and i will have cds in like 3~4 secs, i just keep doing auto atacks to start dance with few sht on my "bag"

lucid jackal
#

So you end up having a lot of SC stacks on pull

warm marlin
zenith basalt
#

which is better sub or outlaw?

brisk raptor