#subtlety

1 messages · Page 896 of 1

somber sun
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why sky

dusky yacht
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Okay, guidon is strong every 1 min and a half

abstract cosmos
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mythic weapon

dusky yacht
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Like what are we saying

abstract cosmos
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main hand

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i still have hero

somber sun
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take pos one instead

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you can upgrade so much on your gear from pos

abstract cosmos
#

it just helps out with haste

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but ig

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if i run

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guidon

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might not be too bad

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my stats rn

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without flask

somber sun
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yeah just go skyreach then

dusky yacht
# abstract cosmos

You could drop some crit for mastery with this new patch but crit isn't bad though

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But like

somber sun
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idk man

dusky yacht
#

What I mean by that is recrafting if you have something to recraft

abstract cosmos
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i have boots

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and i craft

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aswell

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havent wasted it

dusky yacht
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I crafted the neck and I really like it, literally all I recrafted after patch is my neck and I'm basically sorted again

abstract cosmos
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neck

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could

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be a fat

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shout

dusky yacht
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Wait lemme show you my stats

abstract cosmos
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would haste mastery

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work

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together probs right

dusky yacht
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Yes that's the one I have

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147 haste 147 mastery

abstract cosmos
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let me test

dusky yacht
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There's better ones in raid but like

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GL HF

abstract cosmos
#

ye

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im deffo not doing more then 4 bosses in mythic

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i cba

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stressing over it

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whats neck called again i have brain fart

dusky yacht
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These are my stats without mastery flask in %'s, hold on

image.png
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This is the neck

image.png
hazy breach
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Bloodlust does literally nothing for dance globals

abstract cosmos
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ye pit looks stinky

hazy breach
#

!haste

wicked joltBOT
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Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

abstract cosmos
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i have the mythic legs

dusky yacht
hazy breach
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What

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You have 9 gcds during guidon

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8 outside

dusky yacht
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Something isn't adding up then no?

hazy breach
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Well you have enough haste to make it 9.0

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So it probably thinks you should be able to hit 10

dusky yacht
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So it's bugged

dire flame
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its a robot

hazy breach
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Yes but also no

small sleet
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Just get rid of your 3 kids

dire flame
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which plays perfectly and has no input or server lag

iron obsidian
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its a robot lmao, its gonna play it perfectly every time

somber sun
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should do the work

ivory orchid
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You have to hit smelling salts pre pull to achieve greatness

shy ermine
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Doesn’t seem to be taking the 1.2s gcd from coup into account either

dire flame
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also how much haste do you have? exactly 700, or do you have like 730 or some shit

ivory orchid
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699.9 repeating of course

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
shy ermine
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Should be more if dance is 7.59 seconds

abstract cosmos
#

ye

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
#

holy shit

dire flame
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this is a 99parse fwiw

image.png
abstract cosmos
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thats mental

dire flame
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noted, my helm/belt do not have a socket in them

dusky yacht
dire flame
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robots are not magically smart, you have to be able to understand the data it gives you

dusky yacht
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I save vanish for fixate to stay on the boss, orders of my RL

dire flame
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you just sit on the boss with the grub anyway

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you don't need all of them to go off

somber sun
dusky yacht
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I mean I'm not playing for parse clearly, I'm only 90 parse and he's 99

halcyon pendant
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I dont think Vanish is what is making you going from a 90 to 99

tiny sable
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ok quick question for single target i am simming raid and its saying guidon is worse then puzzle box but from what i am reading from everyone that is not the case

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any idea why its doing that

hallow mortar
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if i hit 285 ilvl achivment i will have 10myth crest upgrades?

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does it work it like that?

dire flame
hazy breach
dire flame
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analyzer is such a terrible site lmao

strong shoal
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I'm still not sure if i'm doing stuff correctly, but boy its working

image.png
hazy breach
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I mean it might be referring to the second sectech

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Or the fact that your sectech is cast like 1s after blades

dire flame
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Its not, they were both in the window kekW

dusky yacht
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Wowanalyser is brilliant guys totally not bugged

image.png
dire flame
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Maybe the delayed part, I was movng or something

lilac stag
dusky yacht
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Obviously I should have casted shadowstrike instead of shadowstrike

dire flame
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either way, just learn to read your own logs you'll be better than wowanalyzer

tiny sable
hallow mortar
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im thinking if if push it on alt first

tiny sable
austere anvil
halcyon pendant
lilac stag
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percents mean nothing

tiny sable
halcyon pendant
drifting ether
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From 99 2nd boss, true I need to use vanish more

IMG_5963.png
tiny sable
iron obsidian
drifting ether
#

All the dummy practice at start of season paid off

IMG_5965.png
dusky yacht
halcyon pendant
drifting ether
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I forgot who helped me but some goated person helped me with the gcd timer for dance

dusky yacht
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I wonder what my next vorasius will be like, I got a li'l bit more haste now, might help, I'm also able to use adamantite sharpening stone now, warcraft logs isn't ready boys

lilac stag
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literally breaks the 18% rule

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percents are terrible to use when dealing with a hard cap

dusky yacht
tiny sable
halcyon pendant
random mason
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i have to swap a gem for the sharpening stone

image.png
tiny sable
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so i should def mast flask

random mason
solar glen
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Can we use the adamantite stone on both weapons? I was like its only worth on Mainhand

dusky yacht
lilac stag
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idk what you all are even trying to figure out but don’t over complicate it. Get guidon. Get 684-700 haste. Toss on ilvl gear after that with master/crit or mastery/vers

solar glen
dusky yacht
tiny sable
solar glen
lilac stag
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780-800

hazy breach
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So yes only use it on mainhand

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(technically ig its 3 crit, but oils are 16 haste+16crit)

solar glen
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Can someone explain why? The weapondmg just procs on Mainhand or its because u do most of damage with Mainhand

hazy breach
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All of your spells scale of mainhand dps

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Nothing besides melee offhand hits scale with offhand dps

lilac stag
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oh is auto attacks basically

hazy breach
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Its also why offhand is the least important slot to upgrade

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As the wpn dps is irrelevant and it just has a very low stat budget (literally half of what a chest has as an example)

dusky yacht
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And also why offhand crafted with embellishment is prolly better than whatever mythic dagger fully upgraded

lilac stag
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I think cloak has higher budget.

dire flame
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it does

median latch
dire flame
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depending on how you value agi vs secondaries OH is lower budgeted than rings lmfao

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like a 285 crafted oh gives the same amount of stam as a 276 ring

dusky yacht
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Yoru moment

dire flame
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crafted offhand is normal and what you should have

dusky yacht
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It was the play until it wasn't the play

dire flame
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week 1 crafting MH and then swapping it to OH is what you should do

dusky yacht
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Yeah I know but getting mythic dagger only two weeks later made me feel a bit weird about it ngl

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Maybe 3 weeks I don't remember

dire flame
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its still your bis

dusky yacht
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True

peak ice
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Has anyone tried the 2 crystal strat for lura

sterile topaz
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Hiya sorry to bother would anyone be able to tell me if these stats are okay or if i i needed more haste ive got 865

image.png
dusky yacht
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Holy mother of all haste

sterile topaz
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did i get to much xD_

dusky yacht
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I mean yeah you don't have guidon fair enough but

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Emberwing is budget guidon tho

sterile topaz
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i can remove emberwing i got the shitty box

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but ugh casting

dusky yacht
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I want to tell you not to but I'll get yelled at again

lilac stag
wicked joltBOT
dusky yacht
sterile topaz
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so i got to much haste basically well fuck

dusky yacht
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But your question is answered and you know what to work on

sterile topaz
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ill put this one will remove a bit of haste ig

image.png
dusky yacht
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Yeah why not, like people will scream at you that versatility is disgusting but it literally will be better than the other one

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You can sim it

lilac stag
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The stat panic in here the last 48 hours is mind boggling

sterile topaz
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i never check discord unless i need some help

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cause everyone smart here

dusky yacht
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Understandable but to the people who are always here it's like .. Oh.. Another one..

sterile topaz
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also is the sim broken or just me it seems it loves mast over any % of haste

dusky yacht
dire flame
dusky yacht
sterile topaz
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like i tried to sim and like haste seems to give me fuck all compared to mastery on the sim

lilac stag
dusky yacht
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Just listen to what scAth linked you

sterile topaz
lilac stag
dusky yacht
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The sims are like an angry asian parent, no matter what you do, it wasn't good enough and it's disappointed in you

sterile topaz
dusky yacht
lilac stag
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adding or subtracting to get to 800 is high iq player ability

gloomy meteor
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Would H Guidon be better than a M Puzzle Box for trinket options? Any world where I would use to active trinkets at the same time? Using Mythic Solarflare Prism as my passive trinket at the moment.

sterile topaz
lilac stag
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Guidon is better 99% of the time

dusky yacht
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We don't talk about the 1%

peak ice
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But muh sims

dire flame
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but but scath I simmed my char with 1200 haste and it says box is better

dusky yacht
peak ice
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Muh sims say 500 haste

dusky yacht
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Guys stop I think he's gonna explode

peak ice
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Anyway my l’ura question

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Can u 2 crystal it

gloomy meteor
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Haha. Aaight. Going to stick with the guidon. That cast time on puzzle box is honestly the stupidest thing ever.

lilac stag
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I miss sub when 18 people were playing it. Kpop and memes. Everyone understood stats. ComfyBear

dusky yacht
#

But now we're here

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And we want to know, scAth

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WHATS THE BEST STATS BRO

abstract cosmos
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aug makes rogue go brrr

image.png
lilac stag
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Death Knight. Death Knight is the best stats.

tall dawn
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is it safe to drop Silent Storm for Quick Decisions for raid fights? feels like better uptime might be worth

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
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rogue feels so much better tho

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missed prep

dusky yacht
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I agree

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And finishers feel like finishers

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Not like that li'l thing you sneak on the side

abstract cosmos
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just need to recraft weap and get neck holy

dusky yacht
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It's not my fault

abstract cosmos
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which one

dusky yacht
abstract cosmos
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last boss

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mythic

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?

peak ice
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Myth crown

abstract cosmos
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ye i aint doing last boss

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i cba

peak ice
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Or the pit ones pretty aight

abstract cosmos
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nah craft gives me a 1.6% upgrade

dusky yacht
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You can get it from vault even if you only did normal, if your vault slots are mythic track

abstract cosmos
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aint turning down that

peak ice
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That’s cool

dusky yacht
# peak ice Really?

Yeah some people were posting mythic gazes and I was subsequently anxiety ridden every reset as a result

abstract cosmos
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thing is even if i do get it not like i wont get more crafted

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gear i have like 3 sparks

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so

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😄

dusky yacht
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Well you can sim all the crafted gear

abstract cosmos
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next week i can craft again

dusky yacht
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And see which would be best

somber sun
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its facts

dusky yacht
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But honestly the neck is a banger imo

dire flame
dusky yacht
dire flame
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wild

small sleet
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If you do a boss later in the raid it unlocks the gear from previous bosses

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To prevent you from skipping bosses to try to manipulate vault

peak ice
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I got the neck as heroic, sadly just gets out stated by myth neck

lilac stag
#

What bosses did you kill? If you killed anything after imperator that is now on your loot table

dusky yacht
peak ice
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Seems odd that if you kill like normal crown

dusky yacht
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But had myth track vault

peak ice
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And kill myth voracious

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You can get myth crown gear

lilac stag
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Then you killed mythic

dusky yacht
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I mean I'll be real I'm like not 100% certain anymore but this is how I thought it worked

abstract cosmos
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pretty sure its only the tier

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u killed it on

dusky yacht
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Weird

peak ice
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I think it’s 3 tracks yea

lilac stag
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It is

peak ice
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But also

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Spaghetti code

dusky yacht
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I mean shit just assume I'm wrong then I honestly don't remember properly it was ages ago

lilac stag
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If you kill Vora only, you get Vora and Imp on your loot table

dusky yacht
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Wait

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That could have been it

lilac stag
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ie you joined a pug to get dagger

dire flame
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yeah thats how its been for awhile now

dusky yacht
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Cause my first boss in mythic was vora

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Yeah true that's prolly what happened

peak ice
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It doesn’t reset weekly does it

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It’s like just unlocked full after that

lilac stag
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No

peak ice
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Right so one myth crown means I can just always get the myth neck now if I have a myth spot

dusky yacht
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Like I join the prog raid on vora but they had already killed imperator, we kill vora, I get myth guidon next vault

dire flame
dusky yacht
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That could be how it went yeah

dire flame
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if you do myth crown, you unlock everything before it too

peak ice
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Yea that’s what I mean

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Like it opens up everything to be in the my myth slots

dusky yacht
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Lmao I gaslighted myself into misunderstanding the system

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bruh this disparity in my key levels is driving me insane

image.png
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I keep getting the same keys over and over too

peak ice
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Xenas like one of the easier ones too

dusky yacht
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Yeah like it's so stupid

peak ice
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Guess if ur not after the rings

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Not much there

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Maisara can piss off

dusky yacht
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I already got the rings but one is hero, only one is myth

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The hero one took me 42 xenas runs.

peak ice
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Yikes

dusky yacht
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I have nightmares bro

tidal solstice
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from prog to farm in one week lol

image.png
dusky yacht
#

Yeah it's wild how your parse can fly up depending on how it goes

surreal orbit
#

It’s so good watching your name fly up to #1 during salhadar when the little balls spawn

mossy holly
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
tidal solstice
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should i se PP or WM?

wicked wadi
#

mmm i have 900 crit, probably too much, but sim really likes planned exec over warning signs to the tune of 1.9% on dslice

tidal solstice
#

are we running WS for the extra CP during dance?

tribal blade
#

i am now!

dusky yacht
tribal blade
dusky yacht
short radish
tribal blade
#

like a madman

short radish
#

you are a mad man

dusky yacht
#

It's almost 2 am here

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I'm wide awake

lethal thorn
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!fuu

wicked joltBOT
dusky yacht
#

Shit.

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I never drink red bull anymore and I decided to have one this afternoon and now I'm sitting here like I'm on meth

grim wasp
#

Where are the kings tonight i need elite tips on sub to pad didnt practice anything still better to play sub on chim and first boss voispire?

grim wasp
tribal blade
dusky yacht
tribal blade
short radish
#

uhuh

tribal blade
#

swear

hollow spear
#

You've betrayed our trust one too many times

short radish
#

wym one?

tribal blade
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LOL

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that's fair

hollow spear
#

He's a pathological cheater

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One lazy eye that's constantly fixating assa

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How do we know you mean it this time, Prophet?

tribal blade
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i mean it for real and truly this time unless sin gets buffed

hollow spear
#

Coming in hot with a caveat

lilac stag
wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
#

nice

lilac stag
#

It gets removed if you cheat on sub in keys

tribal blade
#

hahaaa

thin sinew
short radish
#

this definitely does not seem like a fuu image

tidal solstice
#

pp or wm for saladbar?

twin quartz
#

Someone pls change it to comic sans

somber sun
#

until you get chose for a boss mechanic and messes up your rotation

tribal blade
short radish
#

attalad

tribal blade
#

i got a bit tired of the channel being 80% questions about stats and haste

short radish
#

same

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thats why i made this

image.png
#

but youre a lot more helpful than me i guess

tribal blade
#

exactly lol

solemn patrol
#

Sub kinda feeling okish in higher keys rn

astral axle
opal shadow
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
wicked wadi
#

light version / void version

west tide
somber sun
#

crazy stats for 260ilevel tho

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wait

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why is there vers

hazy breach
#

Its from shadowlands

rain swift
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vers is BIS

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Tbf, am I wrong for keep on going with the crit build and cloud cover, mainly because I cant be bothered to having to regear but also doing way more DPS now than ever before

somber sun
#

true right ??

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ig you can just keep it like that

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if you dont have 1k+crit like some psychos here

rain swift
#

OMEGAKEKW unbuffed

image.png
somber sun
#

whaaat

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hell nah

rain swift
#

I mean, its showing results if u check my med, heroic*

image.png
somber sun
#

yeah ig...

rain swift
#

mythic tomorrow, so will probably see if im doing dogshit there but thats a problem for tomorrow

tame notch
rain swift
tame notch
rain swift
#

also sick DPS

rain swift
# tame notch Its no smoke mastery prio

aah alright, I'll probably give the build I have a try tomorrow and I'll see my results, also I dont have Gaze yet, hopefully I get it tomorrow on either bonus roll or drop

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if it turns out bad I'll start shifting towards mast

tame notch
rain swift
tame notch
#

Daaamn

rain swift
#

what

tame notch
#

No guidon as well?

rain swift
#

nope

tame notch
#

Gaze is a game changer tbh but guidon

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Is absolutely must have

rain swift
# tame notch No guidon as well?

i got the guidon today in heroic, but its a heavy DPS loss according to my sims since I have a lot of haste already, so need to downgrade a lot of my haste to fit it in

tame notch
#

On st it shoudnt be dps loss

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The thing with guideon is to make your cds and rotation smoother by extending your first dance and reducing st cd

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M+ the puzzle box is bis but raid never

rain swift
tame notch
#

thats over 100 haste over breakpoint, too much

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u want 684-700 haste with guideon

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rest stats to mastery>crit

rain swift
#

which is where i would probably try and find more mast/crit pieces to change some of my haste i suppose?

tame notch
#

that's my gear

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got 701 haste with haste flask

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also using adamantite sharpening stone on main hand not phoenix oil

rain swift
tame notch
#

My gear (ilvl the same~) that prios crit and smoke bomg talents i simmed like 6k dps less

rain swift
#

also isnt the pandaren racial doing a lot with 50 extra agility from food right?

tame notch
#

would u pls send me your sim paste text?

rain swift
#

yeah, I'll send it in DM if thats alright to not fill the chat here too much

tame notch
#

ah i got it on bottom

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dw

rain swift
#

ah alright

tame notch
#

ah it doesnt work

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gimme dm

rain swift
#

sent

median nacelle
#

mastery stacking and all the party buffs in 17 pit go brrrr xD

image.png
austere anvil
tidal solstice
#

could drop another 131 crit for 2% less crit. less than 25% feels bad

image.png
median nacelle
#

with flask 1200 mastery

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600 crit

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im only 283 ilvl tho

austere anvil
#

ye then we are around the same just fun to see sub mastery paying off

thorny kestrel
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbq01-IzRHY
They won't sleep on sub anymore.

although, brb re rerolling warrior

YouTube
Casualaddict
| SUB ROGUE 260K OVERALL NO AUG? META OR WHAT?? | +20 Maisara Caver...

Twitch : https://www.twitch.tv/casualaddict_

Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/@casualaddict6007/videos

Twitter : https://twitter.com/NikosFasHS

Discord : discord.gg/X2zuUE3jSb

Providing Coaching Sessions for M+/Raid , if you're interested feel free to DM me on Discord.

#worldofwarcraft #tierlist #twitch #warcraft #gamer #gaming #streamer #...

▶ Play video
livid cape
#

I’m so glad cloud is not used. I hate being a wanna be arcane mage with rune of power.

novel plaza
#

!ui

wicked joltBOT
unborn peak
#

So I should be a panda if I wanna be good

round thistle
#

are Adamantite Sharpening Stones still a dps gain?

hazy breach
#

On mainhand yes

short radish
#

wait why not on OH?

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oh

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because OH is worthless?

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and the ap applied to it doesnt get counted towards atk or something

hazy breach
#

Offhand dps is almost worthless yes

short radish
#

fuck

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ive been applying to my OH

hazy breach
#

+3 crit instead of +16 crit and +16 haste

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Unluck

short radish
#

this is why i didn't get r1

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missed out on all those crits

tribal blade
#

17 skyreach

Screenshot_2026-05-07_at_9.17.01_AM.png
#

LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN ACCUSE ME OF PLAYING SIN

short radish
#

how much are you ethical damaging?

tribal blade
#

uh

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not at all lol

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maybe when key level is high enough

unborn peak
#

Sub runs mastery now?

tribal blade
#

seems not bad

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just from prio

short radish
#

!stats

wicked joltBOT
short radish
tribal blade
#

tank died in 2 pulls

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and then in turn our arms got big melee'd

short radish
#

<This comment was removed due to being deemed racist>

tribal blade
#

LOL

plush roost
#

Im ngl prophet

#

Outlaw is still miles ahead

tame notch
#

U mean m+?

short radish
#

no man

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i dont want to play outlaw

plush roost
#

Ye m+

tame notch
#

Cuz on raid we are almost even

plush roost
#

Raid sub is kinda litty

short radish
#

im rolling npx in outlaw loot spec and if i get outlaw weap before i get rings

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i play outlaw

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if i dont

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it was not meant to be

plush roost
#

Idk man i was doing some maisara 21s with deepps

tame notch
#

dont play outlaw

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like its adhd spec legit

plush roost
#

And outlaw im 350k after 1st boss, sub im 270k

#

Like outlaw is just not fair when you roll well

tame notch
#

thats a +

#

also after smoke nerf i cant get past 400k dps on 2nd boss npx

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it was easier last week

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;-;

plush roost
#

Like im walking into nekraxx

Screenshot_20260506_202746_Twitch2.jpg
#

Ts is not legal

drifting ether
#

Is there a haste and crit number you have to hit to play outlaw

gilded ferry
tribal blade
#

but doesn't really matter

#

on that fight

mystic matrix
#

Banner or Casket, anyone got a definitive call？

hollow spear
#

The robot, probably

mystic matrix
#

thx

hollow spear
#

I think it's mandatory to roll a jackpot 5 seconds before the first boss dies in caverns

gilded ferry
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like wowhead WoWhead or IV Icy Veins.

gilded ferry
hollow spear
#

The bot wants less because it's not human

gilded ferry
hollow spear
#

You can sim without oils, but you cannot force a higher threshold

gilded ferry
#

Oh, nvm, in faq says to sim with other oil

hollow spear
#

If you're at roughly 700 and it tries to optimize your secondaries, just ignore it

tranquil sorrel
slate fable
#

hope that you can get more than 1gcd on orbs

#

other than that i have the same problem lul

tranquil sorrel
#

I just realised I just need to save dance for ads to pad

#

xd

wooden barn
#

do i still need to use farstriders mercy craft even though i have 2 289 weapons??

plush roost
gusty kraken
#

is it worth to run both emberwing and puzzle box? tried a couple of dungeons with it and it feels rushed

plush roost
#

No

#

Just play box + passive

gusty kraken
#

heard, sim showed a pretty significant boost so wanted to try it out

weak atlas
#

ever worth double on use (guidon + pbox) for eggmaxxing? sim is telling me to but sus

#

and if worth I'm guessing you pbox before he lands so you dont lose an egg gcd? or just send it midway

steel sierra
#

Do we know yet if next week the 9 ilvl boost is just an item we slap on? Does it cost crests?

peak ice
slate fable
#

the adds

peak ice
#

Sweet

#

Ty

tiny sable
#

is anyone able to look at raid logs this is my first raid as sub my dps is def sub par but i would like advice on how to improve

timid rose
#

would sub par on sub rogue be average?

tiny sable
#

lol

#

uh

#

sub par for sub

timid rose
#

sorry i'm not one for lookin at logs, i barely understand myself 🙂

short radish
#

sub par sub rogues would be below average

tiny sable
short radish
#

assuming you are talking about sub parses

tiny sable
#

yea

short radish
#

a sub par sub rogue sub parse

tiny sable
#

yea i have been sub 48 hours and was like i have a raid tonight and my damage is uh yea

short radish
#

do a !log and hope someone looks at it

#

also

#

!guide

wicked joltBOT
short radish
#

read the opener

tiny sable
#

lol yea

short radish
#

compare your cast sequence to that

tiny sable
#

i think me opener not bad

short radish
#

and chances are youre fucking that up

tiny sable
#

maybe

#

!log

timid rose
#

wait, how did i get subtlety tagged? how did they knowww

plush roost
weak atlas
#

tho I was able to hit 210/220k dps on a few pulls

plush roost
#

If ur burn is tight maybe, but probably not anymore

#

40 second burn would need some fiendishly low dps to not 2 phase

weak atlas
#

yeah, was just wondering

#

think we'll be fine but was our first night of prog on it

#

tyty

patent lichen
#

someone send god

image.png
cedar sapphire
#

So at this point there’s only 1 talent tree to use in raid? ST all the way?

tribal blade
brisk onyx
#

@tribal blade you run 12%crit or still cloud in m+?

tribal blade
#

lemme see what cloud sims for

#

but i would rather not run cloud

runic sinew
tribal blade
#

i think cloud is worse than it would sim for

#

because you can't send blades on cd in keys

#

unless you have perfect timings

brisk onyx
#

idk why cloud is higher but I still run 12crit and feel good garf

tribal blade
#

whoops

#

+1.8%

tribal blade
plush roost
#

What are u simming

#

Dslice?

tribal blade
#

yeah

tribal blade
#

maybe i goofed something

plush roost
#

Is dslice still a 3 min pack into a 3 min boss segment?

tribal blade
#

uhhh not sure tbh

#

i vaguely remember it being random target counts and then boss?

#

or something

#

i could be very wrong though

plush roost
#

Yeah idk i think cloud could sim high if it does like 3 cds sets onto trash into 1 cd set into boss or something

#

Not sure the logic

tribal blade
#

yeah some sort of shenanigans

cedar sapphire
tribal blade
#

but also you're not sending blades on cd in keys

#

so i imagine cloud immediately becomes worse just off that

plush roost
#

Esp if it treats a pack dying fast during your cds into like cleanup and not a large pack over 1:15

tribal blade
#

exactly yeah

plush roost
#

Im like 100% sure scuples is just better but hey i can try cloud in real keys too

#

Live data op

tribal blade
#

i suspect you wouldn't see a notable diff

#

but i would rather just play scruples and not deal with the cloud visual

plush roost
#

Mm depends

tribal blade
#

oh true depends on where you're sending blades

plush roost
#

If u do like a DK route i can see cloud being better

tribal blade
#

true yeah

wicked urchin
#

hit p3 l'ura tonight

#

bangin

tribal blade
mystic matrix
#

！fuu

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
wicked urchin
warm marlin
#

i was literally useless to the group's progression

plush roost
#

I mean the fight is fun

#

In its design

#

Just no jobs

warm marlin
#

idk i just dont see it

plush roost
#

Bro is perma DK pilled ig

warm marlin
#

the first mechanic i enjoy is constellations

#

those are kinda cool

#

well very cool i like those

wicked urchin
#

probably partially because i've disliked basically every fight this tier

warm marlin
#

I liked alleria a lot

#

the others ye kinda sucky

wicked urchin
#

i liked p2/p3

#

p1 was a stinker

astral axle
#

starting paladongs tmrw garf_sit

warm marlin
#

beloren i only kinda enjoyed because it was interesting sub gameplay

#

that fight is actually terrible

warm marlin
analog hearth
#

Played goal keeper in p4 big impact

warm marlin
#

but those first 2-3 days of seeds exploding in the first 2-3 mins while i walk around seeing the sights were miserable

plush roost
warm marlin
#

coincidentally we had wayyy better prog when i swapped from rogue to dk

#

curious

dreamy needle
#

how good is the tier set for sub?

wicked urchin
#

good

dreamy needle
#

niceu

foggy estuary
#

Progging saladbar tonight bros. Do i send blades on start or save for burn phase?

#

Is the energy timer fixed?

#

I have to bring pride to raidleader^

hollow spear
#

Why wouldn't you send blades on the opener?

#

Check lorrgs

foggy estuary
#

Ok we sending just making sure entropic unraveling isnt on a timer that will deprive me blades on burn phase 🫡

fair stump
#

We expect a 50/50 on crit and mastery?

hollow spear
#

!stats

wicked joltBOT
timid rose
#

I love the oh no vers line

hollow spear
#

Even though it's propaganda

#

If you have vers on a non tier piece it's literally over

timid rose
#

I accidentally took myth tier pants this week bc I wasn't paying attention

#

Guess it's time to main change to monk

steel zinc
#

!ui

wicked joltBOT
maiden oar
#

!bonusroll

tribal blade
#

it's what i hear in my head every time someone complains about vers

timid rose
#

I mean it sims slightly higher than the hero pants. But wasn't really my preference

tribal blade
#

it's not a big deal

#

as per the image

tidal solstice
#

lets f go

image.png
wicked badger
#

do you specifically want to hit the second supercharger point on evis/coup or is sec tech okay?

tribal blade
#

except 2nd dance in blades

wicked badger
#

yes ^

tribal blade
#

2nd supercharger is whatever finisher you can cast in it

wicked badger
#

the second dance

#

understood, ty

tribal blade
#

second dance in blades you rip sectec asap

#

doesn't need to be supercharged in that instance

wicked badger
#

gotchya

tribal blade
#

some people will delay 2nd dance in blades even more than usual just to supercharge sectec

#

but the diff is small

wicked badger
#

I used to do that, but then got told to rip the dance 8 seconds on blades expire

tribal blade
#

yeah it's kinda safer to just do that

#

more dance in blades good too

wicked badger
#

otherwise I was doing 2nd dance 2 seconds before sec tech cd

timid rose
tribal blade
timid rose
#

Don't pick vault when sick and delusional

prime glen
#

!sim

#

!sims

wicked joltBOT
prime glen
#

was there a sim page where you can see max stats for maxed out gear

#

couldve sworn there was

vale pine
wicked joltBOT
prime glen
#

ah thats the command, thx fuu

#

also long time no see, hope all is well!

vale pine
#

everything is fine ^^

trim quarry
#

why does Evis get Greyed Out on the CDM?

image.png
#

when i switch to Sub Spec,

#

( This is in Deathstalker )

shrewd lantern
#

theres no reason to track it maybe

trim quarry
#

it appears in trickster

image.png
#

most likely a Blizzard Issue bug hey

shrewd lantern
#

yeah trickster gets something out of it

#

meh

dapper stirrup
#

I have around 500 mastery and over 1k crit. And sim tells me to go for even more crit. That feels wrong

shrewd lantern
#

are you still running cloudcover

prime glen
#

sheet has 1k+ mastery, 1k haste and like 500 crit

#

but that i guess is full myth

shrewd lantern
#

memorizing secondaries lmao

#

ya'll overcomplicate stats so much holy shit

tidal solstice
#

that first pull in mc 🤌

image.png
prime glen
#

just pulled it up haha

#

but it was interesting to see the weight distribution for stats

tribal blade
shrewd lantern
#

yeah that changes by swapping one piece

tribal blade
#

DS has it's own buff to track with DN

#

it's very jank how blizz did it

shrewd lantern
#

unironically lura neck on hc might be one of my biggest upgrades rn

#

but

vale osprey
shrewd lantern
#

i have 3 mythic slots

#

xd

prime glen
#

on the !sheet

shrewd lantern
#

deathstalker wants like 1.1k

prime glen
#

yeah thats wild

shrewd lantern
#

imagine playing ds though

vale osprey
tribal blade
#

thank god we don't need to

#

and as i say that

#

someone is probably cooking DS

dapper stirrup
final gulch
tribal blade
#

fire

main bronze
#

hi guys rerolling from my monk tank after reached 19 resil, hows sub now after the buffs ? looking for a dps and cant decide between bm hunter or sub, i like both

final gulch
#

it cranks

vale pine
#

subtlety is good

#

its still unclear if it will become the dominant spec

#

as some of the benefits of subtlety got removed with midnight

#

which would make it stand out on certain metrics

main bronze
#

i did some 10s as sub and bm hunter, i love how fast sub is, but i dont know how hes in high keys

sour charm
#

Since I mainly do raids, is Subtlety still the optimal choice for a main spec?

tribal blade
vale pine
tribal blade
vale pine
#

haven't played higher than that

#

might be somehting to ask some of the key pushers

tribal blade
vale pine
#

think 15 and 16 is already where many start to struggle

tribal blade
#

it's very subjective though

#

i usually base my number on the key level where there's the sudden big jump in difficulty

vale pine
#

it is around the mark you need to pull more than one pack at the time

#

so you can't play it extremely slow and safe anymore

#

ofc with a meta group, you can still do

tribal blade
#

yes around 15-16s you will have a hard time timing if you're doing a route with a lot of single/double pulls

vale pine
#

as the damage delta is kinda brutal

hollow spear
vale pine
#

between meta specs and random picked together

vale pine
#

and just take any healer/dps/tanks

hollow spear
#

Yeah I was jesting

vale pine
#

ahh alright

tribal blade
#

i'm really enjoying sub in keys right now

vale pine
#

ye, its fun

#

i wish i had nimble

tribal blade
#

i don't feel like i'm trolling playing the spec anymore

#

yeah sub with old nimble would be so good

hollow spear
#

I mean, you said you weren't pushing title anymore

tribal blade
#

i'm not 😉

#

just keys with my guildie arms warr

hollow spear
#

So below title range you wouldn't be trolling anyways imo

tribal blade
#

if i'm not doing keys with him or some of my other guildies i'm not doing keys

tribal blade
#

but it's starting to feel like sub is less troll to play at title range maybe

cursive tundra
#

I have timed 19s yesterday as sub and it slaps really hard. I love it, I am genuinely having fun with it

hollow spear
#

If you playing sub makes you not time an 18, your group has bigger problems than your choice of spec

cursive tundra
#

i have more dps than uhdks in general

tribal blade
tribal blade
cursive tundra
#

also

tribal blade
#

the boss dammy as sub is also very cool

hollow spear
#

I don't think sub should beat uhdk tbh

#

Player diffy if it happens

cursive tundra
#

definitely

hollow spear
#

Or lust pulls are int

tribal blade
#

dunno how hard their nerf hit

#

also i hear udks need huge pulls

cursive tundra
#

but I am lot closer to "meta" specs, even in non physical comps

#

and then there's this too

#

don't like these clickbait titles, this is what gets us nerfed i feel like

#

but sub is definitely in a good spot now on high keys

#

we blastin

hollow spear
#

Yeah if your pulls during lust are comparably small, uhdk suffers way more than sub ever could

tribal blade
#

while outlaw exists in it's current state

hollow spear
#

Nerf outlaw by 6%

#

Forum post now

#

If it works for zac, it has to work for anyone

cursive tundra
#

let them enjoy it

#

I would enjoy it as well if I could play it

#

rogues are generally in a good spot now

tribal blade
#

also those streamers make every video with clickbait titles it's funny

cursive tundra
#

This is all timed keys since reset, between 16-22

#

outlaw is indeed better, but we are quite high up on the list

vale pine
#

idk why people fear a nerf

tribal blade
cursive tundra
#

cause blizzard has a weird relationship with rogues

vale pine
#

i mean

#

prio damage still sucks

cursive tundra
#

doesn't have to make sense

tribal blade
#

TRUE

vale pine
#

aoe is good but not outstanding

#

single target is fine but also not outstanding

tribal blade
#

i did a few keys today

vale pine
#

we have no raid buffs

tribal blade
#

failed 18 AA and timed 17 skyreach

#

and i was slamming dmg

vale osprey
tribal blade
#

felt very good

vale pine
#

the best shround skip i found is still in skyreach with speed through the wind passage

vale osprey
#

Went into a myth pug yesterday and was farming pink parses there's so much to pad on

vale pine
#

but you can cheese that with a warlock, evoker or other classes easy

#

so idk

light hull
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

damage is better

#

so it feels fine, but i don't feel like sub is dunking on everyone else

tribal blade
#

the big issue with sub right now is you need a shammy in the group

#

or else it feels pretty bad

vale pine
#

ye

tribal blade
#

well actually the raid buff/utility issue is a way bigger problem tbh haha

cursive tundra
#

we are not the "best" from any point of view, but we are quite decent now. my group no longer frowns at me for taking sub for high keys

#

i am no longer lagging behind im damage either

tribal blade
#

yeah i was telling the arms warr in my guild that today

#

i feel very good on sub now

#

don't feel like i need to play sin anymore

vale pine
cursive tundra
#

i like all 3 specs, I have gear for all 3

vale pine
#

like the buff was just making us not look bad

cursive tundra
#

but curently enjoying sub the most

vale pine
#

which is great

tribal blade
#

playing sin is a love/hate relationship for me

vale pine
#

but i don't think its enough to label us op

tribal blade
#

it's energy situation pisses me off

cursive tundra
#

the rotation is so simple, it allows me to focus on everything else, ccs, kicks, stops, mechanics, etc

#

i can do more dmg as outlaw

#

but good lord, my mechanical skills disappear

tribal blade
#

yeah doing everything on top of outlaw rotation is a lot

vale pine
cursive tundra
#

have to watch out for 17 buffs

vale pine
#

i wish it had more niches

tribal blade
cursive tundra
#

btw, do we have a final verdict on danse macabre vs 2 points in finality for keys?

#

especially since I'm not really playing into danse intentionally

#

and last question, what do I drop in class tree if I need to pick up shiv + the talent for it to be 15s cd. on certain dungeons it helps a ton to have soothe

do I just forego stealth ms + iron gut?

tribal blade
vale pine
# tribal blade me too

12.1 Wishlist

  • Fix haste.
    • Make deepening round up the gain to full secounds, so we can finally get rid of macros
  • Replace Goremaws bite with Banshies blight
  • Revert Nimble Flurry change
  • Bonus(nice to have):
    • Rework Secret so we have it every dance (e.g. by making the cd longer and add a shots in the dark like reset to it)
    • Revert Danse Change
    • Long Arms
    • Rework Apex talents / fix bugs or shortcommings.
tribal blade
#

virulent poisons was +0.2% roughly the last time i simmed it

#

i saw some people not take featherfoot

tribal blade
#

the next time there's a PTR post i can make one on NA

vale pine
#

i can make one on eu

#

^^

native zodiac
#

nimble Sadge

tribal blade
#

that too yeah

#

the nimble change was a huge loss

austere anvil
#

Give back rupture

tribal blade
#

nah not rupture

native zodiac
#

i rather not have rupture

tribal blade
#

if they gave us back a dot make it shadow

vale pine
#

think they can't give rupture back

#

rupture adds too much overhead

#

which feels against the deisgn direction of midnight

#

especially without auto spread now

#

you see it even on assassiantion

#

how design tries to make you spread it as easy as possible

uncut juniper
#

I wish we had a DoT ability for downtime

vale pine
#

(which to be fair i think goes against the base spec design, but thats just me having diffrent perspectives)

keen dome
#

You can pretend backstab is a DoT

vale pine
#

find weakness is technically a dot

#

or well

cursive tundra
#

yeah i keep spamming CT all the time on assa, and half of the pack still doesn't have dots by the time the prio add dies in AA first pull kekw

vale pine
#

we have 3 maintainance spells

sharp sapphire
#

make gloomblade baseline replacing backstab(the only positional skill in game I believe) give gloomblade extra % of damage per shadow tech point consume, and buff gloomblade witha small passive dot like assasination's doomblade, no rupture plz

vale pine
#

find weakness, slice and dice and fazed

#

its just, all of them get applied automatically

native zodiac
#

kinda weird how slice and dice survived pruning

#

thought that would be the first thing to just get baked into a passive on the tree

tribal blade
#

of all the things they could have pruned

paper trail
#

How many sec pre fight should we use dance for extra charged cp?

vale pine
#

agree

tribal blade
#

making snd a passive would be one of them

vale pine
#

i mean

#

its criminal

#

that snd is not on bp

#

*cttc technically

tribal blade
#

yeah

#

that's also stupid

cursive tundra
#

wait it's not?

#

but it gets applied on coup no?

tribal blade
#

only evis for sub

#

yeah

cursive tundra
#

ah okay, then i don't have to worry about it even in aoe

tribal blade
#

that's why i always evis first finisher during gather in keys

cursive tundra
#

I usually go in with shadowstrike + evisc and then start my rota

tribal blade
#

hell yeah

#

i usually wait till the pull's mostly gathered

native zodiac
#

im curious what we gonna see for .1, should be roughly a month until we should see some ptr notes

tribal blade
#

people i know who are not rogues are saying rogue will be next in line for hunter level raid buff rework

vale pine
#

thats because max mentioned it

native zodiac
#

ye but i think the raid buff is one of the least problems personally

tribal blade
#

because the rogue raid buff situation is pretty well known now

#

after this last RWF

vale pine
#

yep

tribal blade
solid lotus
#

Why hold cds for 20s at start of m bird and not send?

vale pine
#

raid buffs is a big problem in m+

#

because you are so selective

cursive tundra
tribal blade
#

with a dmg raid buff rogue would not have been sat in RWF

cursive tundra
#

It is legit the main reason i play sub over assa

solid lotus
tribal blade
#

and then rogue would be far more desirable to bring to keys

native zodiac
#

i guess i jsut prefer some gameplay changes over it i guess

cursive tundra
#

me when tank gathers

tribal blade
#

or most of the mobs

#

that juicy juicy sectec dmg and fazed debuff

solid lotus
tribal blade
#

people will usually also wait till the pull is gathered to hit lust

tribal blade
#

you can send blades into bird and adds

solid lotus
#

Oh so it’s just for add cleave, thanks

tribal blade
#

and holding blades till later is not bad

solid lotus
#

My guild is full of padding dogs

tribal blade
#

because you egg at roughly 2 mins

weak glade
tribal blade
#

also you might (like me) need to run around immune soaking the first set of orbs

#

so i quite literally cannot blades on pull

solid lotus
#

We hit egg at about 1:45-1:50 atm but with 40 sec egg it will last the whole time

tribal blade
solid lotus
#

I am assigned second immune soak in p1 part 2

trim quarry
#

hey anyone know whats actually worth tracking

solid lotus
#

So everyone precasts puzzle box and then gets cds mid egg

tribal blade
#

true true

solid lotus
#

But also that’s why I’m sub

#

Miss my ass

native zodiac
#

think we phased 1:42 yesterday

#

and it was fine

#

the 40 sec egg is so good

solid lotus
#

Yeah it’s 100% just an execution fight now (that we suck st)

jade oasis
#

those to start

vale pine
jade oasis
#

and they

IMG_0940.png
#

this

cloud rover
#

I think the 40 Sec Egg doesnt make a lot of difference

#

Except 2 egging is now 100% kill

weak glade
cloud rover
#

But this far into the Season the DMG wasnt a Problem anymore

paper trail
#

this is the "correct" MH stone right? Until possible hotfix

2ec9ddb6e577a1a51f4df54921372af7.png
solar glen
paper trail
tribal blade
#

where you have half your raid team green/gray parsing

paper trail
#

btw, do we use Vanish to exxtend FW buff? Or just on cd p much

vale pine
#

you use vanish during blades most of the time

quaint lodge
#

this is so funny

vale pine
#

so dance-vanish-dance

cloud rover
#

But some of us send CDs in second P1, to get through it

paper trail
#

Sorry havnt played rogue in a while so making sure I know all the small tricks

jade oasis
paper trail
#

@vale pine appreciate the guide king

arctic compass
#

Anyone know ideal stat array with new patch? Still ~ 700 haste i pressume

#

And stack mastery

keen dome
arctic compass
#

Ty!