subtlety

[night sluice]

why they increased outlul's buff and not sub 🙁

[rare laurel]

because top player outlaw ouin ouin in blizz forum

[night sluice]

I have said it many times, they should have made outlaw a tank spec when they reworked combat in legion

[lilac stag]

no thanks. Then we’d be stuck playing tanks.

[lilac stag]

it’s still a nerf to outlaw.

[tribal blade]

outlaw is still losing dmg

sub is gaining dmg

outlaw gained WAY more than sub from cloud cover

so their compensation looks bigger, but it's not

[night sluice]

more tanks in the game is always a positive for me

[lilac stag]

didn’t roll a dps spec to tank

play a tank if you want more tanks

be the positive

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-what-she-said-what-she-said-dirty-joke-joke-laugh-gif-15661968

[random mason]

Theres no class with a tank spec where i also like a dps spec

[tribal blade]

heeheeeee

[red flame]

Fr tho idk why ppl want a tank spec on every class

Shits dumb af

[lilac stag]

my hot take is just make rogue, mage, warlock and hunter 2 specs instead of 3 specs.

[random mason]

I think the motivation behind it is good, rogue is the only 3dps class without any required utility

[lilac stag]

focus on building 2 very good specs

[random mason]

Hunter has the best raid buff and BL, mage has a good raid buff and BL

[lilac stag]

With diversity

[red flame]

So add utility to rogue

Ez clap

🤯

[random mason]

Yeah they dont wanna do that tho it seems

[lilac stag]

give rogue crit + crit dmg type raid buff and all of the sudden we’re are in every fight

[night sluice]

I don't think pure dps classes is good for the game

[red flame]

I wanna see the crit + crit dmg raid buff & a Scorpion “get over here” type grip

That would be amazing

Also a couple other smaller things I can think of too

[lilac stag]

we’re not getting a grip

[red flame]

Like honestly just remove Dark Brew as an endcap talent & put that shit super early into the tree

Or as a passive

[red flame]

I can dream

[random mason]

I think we either need content that needs mor tanks, so 3 or 4 tank raids, OR more tank specs in the game

[wheat edge]

hell no

theres already a tank shortage

[old lynx]

sub over sin after the new buffs?

[keen steppe]

I was think the same haha

[night sluice]

true, 5man content needs 1 tank so 20 man should use 4, easy math

[red flame]

If they really wanted to have more tanks w/o making new specs they could just completely redo some specs

If they’re that hellbent

Like

[random mason]

I think a 1 boss raid like chimmy where you actually need more tanks would be cool to try at least

[red flame]

Outlaw should get scrapped for rogue tank if they’re hellbent in making one (still dont want a rogue tank spec tho)

Aug should be scrapped into the Black Dragonflight tanking spec

Etc

[random mason]

Something released later into the patch like sporefall will be

[tribal blade]

redoing entire specs requires a shitload of time

[night sluice]

"Aug should be scrapped into the Black Dragonflight tanking spec" YES I will never understand why they didn't do that

[tribal blade]

would rather they just fix existing specs

[red flame]

It would ya

I just mean that as opposed to adding 4th specs that aren’t different or strong thematically

[lilac stag]

I rather they turn outlaw into a bard

Than a tank

[random mason]

Bard as in support spec?

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[random mason]

Something thats either good enough to be always taken or not good enough so will always not be taken?

Like aug is?

[red flame]

Pirates & their sea shanties

[lilac stag]

Mmhm

[lilac stag]

That’s called balancing the game. They can do it when they aren’t vibe coding.

[random mason]

They'll onky be vibe coding from now on wdym

Its more 'productive' and looks better to the shareholders

[lilac stag]

literally 1 Tank right now is worth it in keys. Maybe 2 healers. Yet we want to focus on Aug going or not going. Good one

[red flame]

True & real

Not even exaggerating either lollll

[night sluice]

aug should never been a support spec, adding support this late in the game is just stupid

[radiant swift]

are u supposed to hit 2 stecs in blades with 800haste no guidon without lust?

[night sluice]

should have been a tank spec

[red flame]

Should’ve been the dedicated Black Dragonflight tank spec

[lilac stag]

Just as stupid as a rogue tank spec. 🤝

[random mason]

Yeah def what i said, my ONLY point ive been trying to make is 'AUG BAD' and nothing else

[red flame]

If anything I’d wanna see a ranged rogue spec before a tank spec

[night sluice]

in what way would Black Dragonflight tank spec be stupid, it makes to much sense

[red flame]

& I don’t mean like bows/guns/shit

I mean like

A throwing knife/shuriken based ranged spec

[velvet jay]

Can you already sim with the upcoming tuning?

[red flame]

Speaking of ranged I wish they’d give us back Deadly Throw

[lilac stag]

We need another tank spec like we need a 4th rogue spec.

Fix what’s there. Iterate on adding new ideas to the game (support) instead of going for lowest hanging fruit

[red flame]

No reason for us to have Shuriken Toss if no Deadly Throw. Like what point does ST actually serve yk

At least Poisoned Knife can drop poisons

[obsidian crag]

ranged, like devourer, like genji like

[night sluice]

tagging when questiing KEKW

[red flame]

I mean ig

But other than that

No reason to not have Deadly Throw

[keen steppe]

I would play instantly roguetank for m×

[lilac stag]

You wouldn’t because it’s not brewmaster

or whatever the best tank is

[red flame]

True & real holy

Nah it’s BM

[lilac stag]

this season yes

[red flame]

Well ya

Lol

No I mean midnight s2

[lilac stag]

rogue tank getting the same treatment as rogue dps balancing. that ain’t getting you a m+ group when we still offer NO UTILITY.

[red flame]

Real

[night sluice]

I want mop smokebomb back

[red flame]

Same

[night sluice]

or a aoe stun/interrupt

[red flame]

I never got to do the aoe kidney sounds soo great tho

[lilac stag]

so people can complain they can’t see. You had for 4 days and people were livid

[red flame]

I’ve heard fables of it

[runic sinew]

I prefer the idea like blade dancer from L2. A rogue supp for melee/physical comps

[night sluice]

that is a design of the spell issue, not gameplay

[lilac stag]

ahh the fable melee comp that comes around every 6 months.

[night sluice]

darkness works so why wouldn't a smokebomb

[red flame]

Tbf can Blizzard not hypothetically make the cloud of smoke 2-3x as transparent,as it is baseline for the rogue, for other players?

Ig that’s assuming they even care enough

But on paper tho

[lilac stag]

Darkness is a flat shadow. Smoke is inherently not flat and a cloud that obscures visibility. Make me a visual Mr designer.

[drifting heath]

Perhaps nightly ? I cant check atm

[night sluice]

saying that it obscures visibility as a reason not to get it is just stupid

[lilac stag]

No

[red flame]

I mean he isn’t inherently wrong tho bc that’s the theme of the ability

But what I said/asked should hold true

It’s just if they cared enough

[night sluice]

just make hostile ground effects lay on top

problem solved

[red flame]

Lay on top of a cloud?

[lilac stag]

just turn off friend spell effects … oh wait they can’t get that working right.

[red flame]

Just have the cloud be 2-3x more transparent for every other player than the rogue

Problem solved

[night sluice]

and for the rogue

[torpid echo]

is the tuning released in NA yet? how does it feel?

[red flame]

It’s 6:45 am

No

[lilac stag]

You’re a few hours too early

[keen steppe]

I dont care about meta. I mean i play rogue

[torpid echo]

Sorry, have no idea what time it is 😂

it's almost 1pm for me

[keen steppe]

I still want to play rogue

[thin sinew]

You're Making EU look bad bro

That's an NA reply

[formal pollen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ebon pawn]

I know its always play what u like but is outlaw ahead of sub enough i should learn the pirate way and set loot spec ouitlaw try get a sword? ty in advance:)

[tribal blade]

it's fight dependent

[ebon pawn]

i key only

[tribal blade]

outlaw probably still better than sub on reset in keys

actually not probably, very likely

[uncut monolith]

Hey, i have blue-purple logs, but iam struggling on cleave bosses while topping single... Should i delay ST for 10s to adds spawn or never delay and this is skill issue?:D

[dusky yacht]

This is literally every sub rogue

[tribal blade]

sub is currently the worst cleave spec in the game

[dusky yacht]

I think the high parsers just agree with each other to let others pad more

[uncut monolith]

Hey, sub rog vs sub rog.. not vs others.

[raw frost]

Wtf xdwe are bottom

[graceful osprey]

I feel like I’m trolling my guild by playing sub on paladins lol

[dusky yacht]

Like my guild destroys imperator adds so fast that I can't properly pad, when I pug heroic my dps on that fight is 116k, on mythic with guild I'm barely over 100k kek

[tribal blade]

not by a little, but a lot

[dusky yacht]

You are, I just asked them to bench me for it

Literally no point in me even being there

[raw frost]

They will buffdf us more

[lilac stag]

easiest way to fix that is get stuck in extended lockouts.

[uncut monolith]

Yrah but in poinf of view sub rogue vs sub rogue.. should i delay Secret technique for adds or not?

[tribal blade]

i might not actually play sub on paladins if we reclear tbh, that chart is making me depressed

maybe i will

fuck it

[dusky yacht]

I'm leveling arms warrior so I have a good cleave char and a good ST char and I played arms warr back in TBC/WOTLK

And honestly I'm sneezing and outdpsing everybody in cleave fights

[hazy breach]

If you want to deal less damage to the boss and more to the adds then yes youd do that

[uncut monolith]

Ok thx. Actually if i want purple logs i should aim for it much more

[shadow ivy]

the beautiful parser's mindscape

[dusky yacht]

Just go all in on ST dps and screw the parses, tell them to look at boss damage if they talk shit

[steel zinc]

On Lura?

[tribal blade]

sub's strength is sniping add dmg anyways

[hazy breach]

In general

[tribal blade]

you do the pad so others can focus on boss dmg 😉

[tepid trellis]

we dont really do that anymore lol

[left ledge]

Just get logs without being a padder

[graceful osprey]

Tbh for me, I just send it all the way. If secret tech lines up, it lines up. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t

[tribal blade]

BUFF SECTEC

make it our top dmg again

[abstract minnow]

With the tuning changes, should we still run Cloud Cover or egg dmg on Balo?

[lilac stag]

#alwaysshowbossdmgparses

[uncut monolith]

Top dps to bos, 0 to adds=green log bench😀

[steel zinc]

check pins

for now and ever any change

[dusky yacht]

Then your guild leadership is trash

[uncut monolith]

Its a joke I take it back:)

[lilac stag]

imagine getting off bench to be in prog until after paladins

[left ledge]

I mean if you wanna pad go for it

[tepid trellis]

thats Havoc DH domain now

[left ledge]

But nobody cares about pad logs

[tribal blade]

nauurrwww

grats on lura btw

[steel zinc]

pretty much didnt play paladins/crown and the rest. Idk kinda pointless to play rogue there if you have a strong roster

[dusky yacht]

The only fight I'm benched on is paladins and I wanted it myself, I'm not gonna waste their time by doing suboptimal dps even if I play it perfectly lmao

[lilac stag]

Legit my RL looks at boss dmg parses and says nice job

[tepid trellis]

crystal dmg in p1

and ty

fck that boss

[abstract minnow]

Yes, I read it, but it's not clear to me whether we should run Cloud Cover or revert to the old talent for the Egg phase, since it's a short burst window.

[tribal blade]

ok now i'm even more depressed

[torpid echo]

what if I'm secretly from the na living in the eu

[dusky yacht]

CIA detected

[hazy breach]

40s is not particularly short, but assuming its working like theyve described in their notes then you would not be playing cloud cover there no

[lilac stag]

Why can’t I transfer crests I’ve outgrown to an alt. BLIZZARD PLEASE

[uncut monolith]

Hmm never thinked about padding. Good point that alot of those numbers are in this prespective missleading thx.

[tepid trellis]

Havoc AoE burst is just wild whenever they eye beam

[tribal blade]

all those guaranteed crits

[tepid trellis]

its surges

[tribal blade]

did they buff eye beam dmg? i don't remember it being that nutty

[tepid trellis]

not beam itself

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[tepid trellis]

well beam does alot

dont get me wrong

[graceful osprey]

However, with the outlaw buff, I’ll probably be gearing my alt outlaw rogue more now

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade are you all on crown or bird?

[tribal blade]

well my guild does no dmg haha

[tribal blade]

i'm definitely in for bird

[lilac stag]

You mean the 2% nerf?

[tribal blade]

i'm doing a lot of immune soaking

[lilac stag]

I mean guild prog

[tepid trellis]

if i turn off Meta Eye beam

which does a fck load

regular eye beam is okay

[tribal blade]

OH we had a 0.1% wipe on crown

so she's dead on reset

[lilac stag]

damn

[tepid trellis]

and with Meta eye beam

[tribal blade]

i did top boss dam the entire night

[lilac stag]

Think you’ll reclear?

[tribal blade]

and it was my first night on the boss

[tepid trellis]

it hits quite hard on set 1-3 of crystals

[tribal blade]

not sure, my RL said maybe

[rapid sinew]

We're going back to opening with Shadowstrike with these new adjustments right? Or that still not giving a ton of CP?

[tribal blade]

wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to extend so we could just knock out alleria and get going on bird

[vale osprey]

Lu'ra proggers - have we had anyone here who was rogue and assigned to right side p3? The note stuff says left side is ideal but our p2 positions are set up in a way where I'm going to right side, how easy is it to just swap once we land and do p3 soaks?

[tepid trellis]

i did right side

[dusky yacht]

We opened with SS this patch too, but yes, next patch we get premed back which means full combopoints with one SS

[vale osprey]

Did you end up swapping left to get atrophic on boss, or did it not really matter?

[rapid sinew]

Thank you

[tepid trellis]

does not matter

dmg intake is not high in p3

only thing that does dmg is colliding with memory game

[graceful osprey]

Wait, was it a nerf? Did I read it wrong?

[alpine wraith]

for outlaw

[hazy breach]

Compared to today yes

[alpine wraith]

thy reverted some of the nerf

[hazy breach]

Instead of 6% nerf its now a 2% nerf

[lilac stag]

I think my sub sim hit 115k with buffs

[graceful osprey]

Ahh, well either way, I’ll still probably gear my alt outlaw rogue a bit more

[alpine wraith]

my other rogue is a mastery stacker

living the dream

[lilac stag]

My other rogue is a warrior

2 rogues. You all fucking nuts

[vale osprey]

My other rogue is path of exile

[alpine wraith]

1900 mastery almost with flask

[hollow spear]

My other rogue is touching grass

[crystal bone]

my other rogue is paragon 65

killin demons

[hollow spear]

Expansion good?

[blissful ivy]

Does it blast like that?

[crystal bone]

im having fun with it yea

better than getting declined for keys

[alpine wraith]

nope dps is less than it should but you can get some big swings in

remember there is a reason they introduced dr

to cuck us

[blissful ivy]

Ow yeah dr....

[graceful osprey]

I actually have 3 main rogues, one for each spec. My sub rogue is my main main lol

[shadow ivy]

beastmode

i want an alliance rogue for meld badly but im so lazy

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/mental-diseases-gif-15734914466993843010

[celest drum]

dwarf >

[shadow ivy]

it's chill ill just die to every bleed

[celest drum]

2x rogue is the method

[shadow ivy]

burgerboss hella aura

[celest drum]

he farming aura bro

tauren

[shadow ivy]

[celest drum]

you know this guy fucks tho

he don't mess around

[shadow ivy]

what is bro wearing

[celest drum]

i tell you bro

he don't mess around

[rapid sinew]

Sorry im pretty new to Sub. Havent played it since legion so bear with me being a newb. Just love the spec and im trying to pick someones brain about it. I read the wowhead guide. I more looking to see if there is any little nuances or no pun intended hidden tech that it doesn't touch on.
In M+ i feel like im lacking in potency. Granted I know now after reading im being a little too liberal with my dances, is it safe to say I am alway pooling my dances for Secret Technique casts and Shadow Blades and outside of that just make sure to not cap on dances and combat points?

[steel zinc]

log a run or better yet a raid fight then people can actually help

[vale pine]

A lot of the nuances got removed with the midnight rework sadly

but Mythic+ optimizations are mostly about good planing for cooldown use

try to be efficient with cooldowns, so don't hold them too long

there are some optimizations, like

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[vale pine]

(which is also in the guide)

if you run the first dance, trying to get the benefits efficiently is valuable

there is little pooling because of how much energy you have during cooldowns

other things are mostly learning cheeses or dungeon mechancis

Some examples

Taking speed shroud is quite efficient in skyreach, you can do the wind running passage extremely efficiently with it and good movement

i was as fast as a evoker cheesing it doing so

or on the last boss, vanish is a great way to break free from the bird grap

small details like this are all over dungeons, and you can use them to your advantage

some pulls, you might want to use a kidney on a caster to make them smoother

using aoe blind can be helpful too on big pulls with casters

[green torrent]

are you talking about stillshroud?

[vale pine]

yes

[tiny sable]

i am right there with you and it could be just my smooth brain but i am fumbling reading this rotation lol

[vale pine]

this

speed boost

i just like to call it speed shroud

[green torrent]

wow I never knew that

[vale pine]

stillshroud can be used in combination with it

but not always needed

rly depends on the dungeon

[rapid sinew]

Yeah I tried to look for one before asking sorry.

[vale pine]

just keep in mind, you trade off defensive value playing it

[green torrent]

what would you drop in order to take shrouded in darkness?

[surreal orbit]

" Try to ensure that you always have :ancientarts: active for your supercharged non-Secret Technique Finisher during :ShadowDance:."

What is the conditional reason to not worry about the supercharged sec tech?

[vale pine]

don't rly have other options

[vale pine]

its basically like this

you will have 2 supercharger points

the first one will always hit secret

the 2nd one the finisher after

because of this additional amplification, its efficient to have ancient arts for it

the combination is good enough to play somewhat inefficient to get it

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[vale pine]

^ which is basically this

you enter dance

then use secret

then strike/storm

and see if you have aa up

[surreal orbit]

Yeah I've been ensuring to get AA to spend the supercharge on a finisher

[vale pine]

if you have it up -> play as usual

if you haven't

you can use another strike/storm to proc it

thats essentially all of it

you don't rly care if secret gets aa

[surreal orbit]

yes this, why not?

[vale pine]

but you want to have it on the 2nd finisher ideally

[vale pine]

secret is a 3 part attack

[surreal orbit]

oh so it only applies to 1 part so its not big damage gain

[vale pine]

its:
physical hit (weak)
(delayed) shadow clone hit (strong)
(delayed) shadow clone hit (strong)

only the physical part of it works with ancient arts

so while its fine to have it

you don't rly force it

e.g. if you can proc aa with a builder

you wouldn't adjust

[surreal orbit]

so we want to always supercharge SecTech, but AA is not necessary

[vale pine]

and do strike on full cp first gcd in dance

to get aa up

while for the 2nd finisher, you want to do so

[surreal orbit]

right

[obsidian crag]

golden

[surreal orbit]

always supercharge SecTech right?

[vale pine]

yes

you use secret asap

then optimize around 2nd finisher

[strong jay]

is it worth doing that for coup regardless of supercharged combo points?

[surreal orbit]

Sectech will always be using the supercharge anyways because youre using it immediately with dance anyways yeah?

[vale pine]

exactly

[rapid sinew]

Im reading this. But how do we supercharge again?

[surreal orbit]

sick

[vale pine]

you get 2 supercharger points after using dance

[rapid sinew]

Im at work reading so being in game and oding things slow is always how I learn best sorry

[vale pine]

one point is used every finisher after

[rapid sinew]

Okay thought so

[vale pine]

so you get 2 empowered finishers

after using dance

[dusky yacht]

fuu did they fix the supercharging before pull thing? I noticed last mythic raid I did that my supercharges were resetting on pull

[rapid sinew]

So using it on a Coup would be optimal if we can?

[tiny sable]

ok sorry if dumb questions but i have to ask so in single target will i use both dances back to back during blades and do i use secret tech only in dance or also outside just make sure i have it for dance

[vale pine]

everything above 2 should be reset, but the first 2 are iirc still not

[vale pine]

you use 2x dance during blades

[dusky yacht]

Oh right so just do one dance before pull and in time for dance to recharge

[tiny sable]

ok

[vale pine]

not back to back nessecerily

especially not if you use guidon

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[dusky yacht]

And then wait with the next dance until sectec is back up as usual

After blades

[vale pine]

exactly

only need to be careful when blades is about to come off cd

so you don't send secret/dance when blades comes up soon

and need to delay after

[supple gorge]

This week is the week of guidon, I know it. Cuz I'm stuck in Jury duty so that's my reward. Right? That's how it works?

[dusky yacht]

Can confirm

Manifest guidon

[stoic anchor]

In m+ after wednesday how are the rogue specs ranking compared to each other? Who's nr 1, 2 and 3?

[dusky yacht]

Manifest guidon (龍花山海風)
Parse powerfully (電火空星月)
Bring pride to raidleader (虎雲雷川森)
Spread genetic information (夢雪天光石)

[stoic anchor]

Guideon went to healers for offspec after 2 tank last week

[chilly dagger]

But what if im in Blades, and have the second sectec available like in the last 3/4 seconds of blades? Should i still send the dance in the last 8 and only fit the sectec in once there? Or should i send a full dance+sectec and therefore delay the second dance?

[tiny sable]

so i was looking at a raid pull for myth vor and they didnt use cds till 8 sec in any idea why

[vale pine]

yes

[dusky yacht]

That's exactly what you should do yes, you just dance at 8 sec of blades then sectec ASAP

[vale pine]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[supple gorge]

Amen

[vale pine]

this is the optimization around 2nd dance use

[chilly dagger]

I thought i wait with dance, to have more time of the clones from sectec in blades🙈

[dusky yacht]

[chilly dagger]

Ive always sent the second dance in the last 4 seconds with my „dance + sec macro“ 😄

[dusky yacht]

Yeah that's a misplay but now you know I guess

[chilly dagger]

Wondering how much dps ive lose

[dusky yacht]

67k

[chilly dagger]

Jeah some shadow strikes in blades window get lost there

Always happy to improve 🙂

[viral geyser]

Trying to follow along here, but I'm newb.

Explain it like I'm five.

Use use blades+shadow dance then tech, and instead of throwing another tech I wait for shadow to be up again or throw the tech inbetween

[dusky yacht]

You're messing up the names of the cooldowns etc so I'm gonna write it out for you

[chilly dagger]

No!

You use blades+dance+sec and continue rota as normal. When blades has 8 sec left, you dance and shadow strike evis until sec comes up to get in in as well

[dusky yacht]

Guidon -> ~1sec delay -> Blades -> Dance+Sectec macro -> Second dance at 8 seconds left on blades -> Sectec ASAP -> Hold dance after blades until sectec is back up.

[viral geyser]

Thank you, I actually got that 😄

[dusky yacht]

Yeah but this is wrong so prolly stop saying it otherwise you'll confuse people

[viral geyser]

What is the theorycrafted dps loss on avg? If someone's doing a flat 100k would it be 15% or what metric can we use to get a grip on the actual loss

[chilly dagger]

Ill delete

[dusky yacht]

Loss on what

[stoic anchor]

What's going to be better in m comming wednesday: assa or sub?

[dusky yacht]

Not doing this stuff correctly?

Depends on how you're making your mistake and how many targets there are and so on

[short radish]

wtf is a "theorycrafted dps loss on ave"

[chilly dagger]

Do you know when in that regard, the second sec is up again? Guess itll be also around last 4 sec of blades right?

[short radish]

how do you theorycraft dps loss

[dusky yacht]

This depends on your haste but it's about 2-4 seconds remaining on blades yeah

[chilly dagger]

720 with guidon

[dusky yacht]

So you want to have high combopoints around that moment

So you can sectec immediately

[chilly dagger]

To not delay sectec further

[viral geyser]

idk simming the rotation vs optimal rotation. Brother I said I'm new 🙂

[chilly dagger]

Yes understood!

[dusky yacht]

Because there is a delay in the damage or something, fuu could explain properly

[short radish]

dont think about some random unoptimal rotation

it sounds like a really weird rabbit hole to go down

[viral geyser]

Also last question, I saw the pin - does that mean Mastery is back as primary this reset?

[short radish]

that doesnt lead to anything good

yeah

[tiny sable]

at any moment is it worth hitting a builder at 6 combo to make 7

[dusky yacht]

Balance leaning towards mastery, crit is not bad, but if you have recrafts then recraft to haste/mastery in all likelihood, or mastery/crit but then the consideration is pointless to begin with

Also use mastery flask (if you have ~700 haste with guidon or 800 without)

[dusky yacht]

Before dance sectec or before blades + those, there is nothing else you should really be doing except backstab in the last few seconds before cooldowns

Except maybe pressing feint to make your healers think you're trying not to die

[tiny sable]

to much work 🙂

oh idk if i got a answer i was looking at logs for rotation help etc i looked at vor and this was the rotation

is this a normal thing

[dusky yacht]

You can use a vanish to get one extra SS in before cooldowns if you don't care about getting fixated

[hazy breach]

If you dont have premed yes

[dusky yacht]

But next patch we get premed back

So doesn't matter

[tiny sable]

ok smooth brain question

what is premed

[dusky yacht]

Premeditation, type it in search bar of talent tree

Also read your talents it helps to know wtf you're doing

[tiny sable]

lol thats what i did this morning i just never heard it called premed

i am also only like a week into rogue ever soo

[dusky yacht]

We use all sorts of fun shortenings and abbreviations, ask others what the abbreviation for combopoints is

[vale pine]

correct, today/tomorrow depending on your timezone

[tiny sable]

HMMMMMMMM

[dusky yacht]

[crystal bone]

dn is my fav

[dusky yacht]

I love when you start playing sub and you're reading Shadow Technique and Secret Technique and your brain feels like you've just downed a bottle of whiskey

[tiny sable]

lol

[dusky yacht]

Then you head over onto this discord and ask people for help and they use abbreviations and you're like "I am so sorry I asked guys"

[tiny sable]

uh stat question these are my stats how we feel about them
693 crit
692 haste
522 mast
208 vers

[swift tinsel]

split that vers into mastery

[crystal bone]

garfield emoji

[dusky yacht]

Your haste is fine, you have too much vers so if you can try and get those into mastery

[shadow urchin]

[dusky yacht]

Try and get exactly 69 versatility and post it on this channel asking if you have enough ASAP

[tiny sable]

i just noticed the legs have a nasty amount of vers

[dusky yacht]

Yeah I mean some people are using it but I think it's just because they got random crap legs on myth track and were like why not

[tiny sable]

ok so i need to get new legs and cata chest

[dusky yacht]

Yeah chest is one of the slots we actually want to use of the set

I have myth chest with leech which sucks because indestructible is bis in this economy prove me wrong omegachungus

[short radish]

For the opener you should always cast SS on the boss. You don't need to press SS since SS will already teleport you behind. If there are 3 or more targets (2 with PP) you should cast SS over SS.

[vale osprey]

Yes - the prio is ALWAYS SS > SS. Think it's a big mistake new learners make.

[dusky yacht]

But what if the boss is moving quickly and you have to SS after your SS in order to be able to SS in dance

inb4 some guy is pressing screenshot in opener

[short radish]

if that happens then you need to walk into the boss range so SS doesn't teleport you behind since SS has a min cast range for the teleport to happen

[dusky yacht]

[short radish]

example chimerus

[azure thicket]

how long's downtime today?

an hour or three

[dusky yacht]

42 years

[azure thicket]

guh

[vale pine]

wow 2 will release before that

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tophermcgee3-interstellar-christopher-nolan-relativity-Yy2e3V6LFTgZGyFzuK

[dusky yacht]

We're gonna get wow 2 before ss cleave

[short radish]

uncorrect. when it's TWW classic we get ss cleave

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/waiting-been-hardpunjabigifs-z4lwT4QTkK3sYITR7Z

[gilded ferry]

they already said that its going to end on pandaria 😭

[short radish]

wtf but wod was so much fun

[gilded ferry]

i felt like WOD classic would be a banger

[short radish]

the 13 warrior players who keep going on about glad stance

[dusky yacht]

They're not even going to let me red buff killing spree in arena again

Cringe

[steel zinc]

I mean at some point they will release legion classic

like that will just print money

[swift tinsel]

WoD classic means I can play glad stance warrior again so I'm down

truly unbalanceable in all its glory

plus necrotic plague unholy dk

[sullen hare]

Wasn't glad... Terrible?

[swift tinsel]

nope

[surreal orbit]

classic ends in MoP.... just in time for them to reveal the new 'classic' expansion at blizzcon that never sends us back to draenor

[gilded ferry]

dude, i swear to god wod major issue was pacing

in classic everything is already there and has a faster schedule

[swift tinsel]

it also had an insanely bungled launch

[gilded ferry]

it would be a banger

the only thing i dont like about wod is the ironforged stuff

[swift tinsel]

the first raid tier was kind of a nothingburger but then you get BRF and HFC

[gilded ferry]

first boss of HFC was ass though

[swift tinsel]

well ye

assault one of the worst fights ever but the rest were bangers

[soft summit]

How do you know if you have it up though? Is there an indicator?

[hazy breach]

Yes, the big shadow bars in the middle of your screen

Or you can track the buff

[ornate ruin]

do you still wanna run cloud on beloren

[hazy breach]

Probably not

[ornate ruin]

gg...

[fading saffron]

taking the rotten is no longer a thing because of the cloud cover change, right?

[alpine wraith]

it is kinda neutral vs finality on st

[steel horizon]

soon

[fringe lava]

where was that video with the beloren burn? does that even apply for today anymore?

[spice matrix]

Our burst is dead man

Dead I tell ya

[sullen hare]

Finally someone uses the wistful wolverine meme correctly

[alpine wraith]

we still do fine just not as good as before if you are on NA or tomorrow in EU

[warm marlin]

our burst is buffed if you rolled 8% shadowstrike crits!

[ornate ruin]

why do you have the deathstalker tag...

[lilac stag]

Totally worth it to not have an opener take 6 seconds versus 3.

[alpine wraith]

i did the fuu opener

no ragrets

[lilac stag]

fuck premed

[spice matrix]

Ive been trying to remove it

[swift tinsel]

I miss cloud cover already

[lilac stag]

gimme my healing

[spice matrix]

too bad I probably have the cloud cover one next in line

[swift tinsel]

and 20-25% increased burst in blades

[lilac stag]

I don’t have the attention to do Strike - Vanish + Strike - backstab - Shiv - slam macro

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[swift tinsel]

sometimes I'd get spicy and Strike->BS->Vanish->Strike->

really shook things up

[lilac stag]

shiv was the seasoning for me

[swift tinsel]

one day I'll commit to the Toss-only opener

[bold onyx]

does anyone have/know where I can list at the best gear for rogues?

[lilac stag]

what’s in your bags that’s get you guidon and 700 haste

[chilly tree]

Sub is s tier now right?

[lilac stag]

otherwise every guide has posted one of the 40+ combinations of BiS gear

[swift tinsel]

technically sub is always S tier

[timid rose]

alphabetically?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/goth-emo-gif-25409195

outlaw had its cope for 13 days of pretending to be prog worthy on the last bosses.

RIP pirates

https://tenor.com/view/the-curse-of-the-black-pearl-pirates-of-the-caribbean-captain-jack-sparrow-johnny-depp-movie-gif-13439093

[lusty narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/akakichi-no-eleven-bro-bad-news-i've-got-bad-news-for-you-hand-on-shoulder-gif-4737126791591033318

[swift tinsel]

the most objectively true tier list available

[cyan linden]

who made this tier?

[ornate ruin]

nah its bis trust

[swift tinsel]

fuu

love dropping that in guild discord every couple seasons

though idk if there's an updated one with Devourer

[warm marlin]

he posted one with it at some point

[swift tinsel]

there we go

had to hunt a bit in filters lol

[vale pine]

Class tier list

specs

and hero talents

we have all, one stop shop for tier lists

(i created them as a joke about the tier list meta, it started out as one, but developed into 3 over time)

(another fun thing is the !newmain command in #off-topic, if you want to decide what to main in a patch/xpac)

[shadow ivy]

lmfao

[dusky yacht]

This is my fav one

I like it because it has all da classes

And da specs

NA maintenance extended by a bazillion hours

[surreal orbit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/lewisauu--k01KQWARQNB3DV99JDQRYTYMAP6

[somber sun]

deserved for burgir area

eu should get reset first

just saying

[lilac stag]

be my guest. You can fucking beta test this shit

[west bluff]

i won't be using my bonus rolls for at least a day

or maybe I should, i'd get refunded and be ahead

[ornate ruin]

eu would be raging so hard if they got the weekly 9 hour maintenance we did tbh

[somber sun]

they dont listen to my feedback

why even bother

[lilac stag]

9 hours + live beta testing for 2-10 hours

[dusky yacht]

sips tea while waiting on his 1 hour maintenance every patch

Life is difficult

[lilac stag]

All to wake up in EU with 1 hour downtime and most of the shit cleared up

[somber sun]

its instant btw

except on the big patches

[lilac stag]

psure 12.0.5 was the first time in a very long time EU got to experience live beta tests

[dusky yacht]

Let me sip my tea

[fierce wigeon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusky yacht]

I think whole of midnight has been a live beta test

[somber sun]

oh this one

just went for quick little nap

[dusky yacht]

Maybe whole of wow

[somber sun]

you get me

[rain kernel]

Wait they extended maintenance?

[dusky yacht]

[lilac stag]

They should do a global timer and have all the maintenance based off the current NA West Coast times

watching EU melt would be hilarious.

[dusky yacht]

Beta test for us, peasants cue obnoxious french nobility laughter

[rain kernel]

Tell meeee u orange cat !! I cant see it..i made plansssss to be home when the game comes onlineeee…tell me i can socialise a bit more or not

[dusky yacht]

[dusky yacht]

It’s been extended by 1 hour

[lilac stag]

so far…

[shadow urchin]

No need to worry bout maintenance when at work anyway

[dusky yacht]

No need to worry about maintenance when EU and taking a nap anyway

[fallow glade]

please censor the W-word

[dusky yacht]

[shadow urchin]

Employed sorry

[fallow glade]

MODS

[dusky yacht]

MODS

[shadow urchin]

[dusky yacht]

@mods

[fallow glade]

guards, posthaste!!

[dusky yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/alarm-gif-20845235

[shadow urchin]

Surely this reset cant be worse than 1205 patch day was

[dusky yacht]

Not sure you wanna challenge blizzard

[shadow urchin]

I do. I got locked out of mythic and missed our lura kill

Cant do worse

[dusky yacht]

Damn

[west bluff]

Do we have a hint/tips section for each mythic boss? Like Dragons for instance, saving CDs anywhere for adds?

[swift tinsel]

you can always look at lorrgs.io for cd timings

[shadow urchin]

Lorrgs is handy ye

[swift tinsel]

shows when they're used with respect to boss ability timers

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/talladega-nights-lucius-washington-michael-clarke-duncan-dont-you-put-that-evil-on-me-mad-gif-4440047

[shadow urchin]

Too late

[west bluff]

oh didnt know about that site, should be better than checking specific logs for timelines. Thanks

[swift tinsel]

its very very useful, you can filter out specific boss abilities or spec cooldowns, trinkets, pots, etc

https://lorrgs.io/

it basically pulls all the top logs and shows their cooldown use, for both heroic and mythic

[shadow urchin]

It is just using logs and giving it a nice clear timeline

Ye

[swift tinsel]

and you can import those cd timers for things like in-game raid notes

or Timeline Reminder type addons

[west bluff]

Yeah very handy with the ability timeline on top

[shadow urchin]

[dusky yacht]

I learned something new

[azure mauve]

https://giphy.com/gifs/leroypatterson-wish-monkey-paw-fSGqUm3IcVBESFM0hK

[swift tinsel]

lorrgs is definitely one of the better learning tools for wanting to improve

[dusky yacht]

I wanna be the very best no one ever was

[shadow urchin]

Also if one really wants to selfimprove, wowrecorder. Can playback any pull.

[west bluff]

yeah but the trinkets section is kinda iffy? i can only see puzzlebox and not guidon https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/vaelgor-&-ezzorak

only logs with guidon would be relevant for instance

[dusky yacht]

I mean you would use guidon before blades anyway

[swift tinsel]

yeah, I think it probably discriminates between between pbox bc its use isn't as rigid as guidon since that's with every blades, vs every other

in some fights it might be more advantageous to hold pbox use for certain things

[west bluff]

yeah but if i'd create a note for that the timeline of casts would change with guidon

[lilac stag]

@shadow urchin are you actually on rogue or warrior?

[shadow urchin]

Dk

[lilac stag]

ah man of culture

[scarlet heath]

What is this grand betrayal

my legacy no dust role turned into dust cover

🙁

[shadow urchin]

Yeh went red on dimmy and still red

[lilac stag]

Living that ranged life

[shadow urchin]

Uh is so easy its insane

No care in the world about anything

[lilac stag]

how seriously are you progging?

[shadow urchin]

Dimmy was 21st lura was 41?

[lilac stag]

nice

[shadow urchin]

So still the same about

Lura got delayed cause of the lockout bug leaving 2 of us locked of the week

[lilac stag]

oh damn that sucks

[shadow urchin]

And tickets said "tough luck gl next week"

But still 197 pulls on lura is p good

[dusky yacht]

Outplayed

[shadow urchin]

Rekilled in 2 pulls

Also still dont have myth crest achi, missing 1.2 ilvl

[lilac stag]

mythic crest seems so much slower with the increases

[warm marlin]

i was still the highest na ilvl rogue when i last checked and i was in the bottom 3rd of my raid for ilvl

really awesome losing 80 myth crests every tier to being unable to upgrade a 2h

my healers got myth crest achieve and i didnt

[chrome palm]

our disc priest got it weeks ago from the lura kill

[lilac stag]

are we the only class that can’t abuse the 2h crest discount?

[chrome palm]

insane vault rng

[hazy breach]

DHs cant use two handers right?

[shadow urchin]

Yeh my vaults were 3 times gold at season start

[lilac stag]

I mean use the 2H upgrade tactfully.

[swift tinsel]

no

[shadow urchin]

And one week missed so behind

[swift tinsel]

dh have to dw

[warm marlin]

it's just the realz classes

[lilac stag]

They can craft a 1h int that works for both apparently

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

yeah basically had to commit to devourer to take advantage

in early season

[plush roost]

So close to the havoc rise...

Just slightly behind

Woulda been hilarious

"I crafted int 1h and now havoc bis wtf??"

[lilac stag]

Hear me out. Turn outlaw into 2h rogue

[swift tinsel]

I would play havoc in a heartbeat

they just need to nerf ddh by like 12%

and then another 10%

possibly followed by another 7%

[plush roost]

Not really

[lilac stag]

drop the apm down to 50.

[plush roost]

Havoc is like

[swift tinsel]

I just want ddh in the dirt

[lilac stag]

Perfect spec

[plush roost]

3% behind?

[somber sun]

idk about this one

not very sneaky to run around with 2h swords

[swift tinsel]

mover havoc is one of the most engaging and fun playstyles in the current midnight system

and ar havoc even more so

even tho they play no mover atm

[plush roost]

I dont fuck with felscarred ima be honest

[swift tinsel]

felscarred is boring

ar combo weaving is a joy

[plush roost]

Ar tww3 was very fun

[swift tinsel]

and wounded quarry owns so fucking hard

double dance wounded quarry should have been the star of the season

but nooooo ddh had to come out of the gate just busted as fuck

as new darling specs must

[frail wasp]

Hi guys, the changes for sublety are they a buff overall?

[lilac stag]

2h savage would go hard

[frail wasp]

<3

[west bluff]

yes, you can check on pinned comments, talents are changed back as well

[drifting igloo]

2.5% buff, check recent pin

[frail wasp]

thank you <3

[drifting igloo]

❤️

[west bluff]

could've been more but we'll take it

[dense geode]

idk how, but I did get my myth achieve 1-2 weeks ago

[maiden oar]

felscarred is fun bc u play inerti

and not bc felscarred is fun

if that makes sense

[tidal solstice]

we have 7 foot tall stealthing hooved cow men, im sure 2h'ers would be fine

[swift tinsel]

yeah they kinda made it hard/impossible to play inertia+AR

[grave girder]

Das me

[teal plaza]

No. Make pistol an actual weapon type then make them a sword and pistol spec.

[lilac stag]

Until it would be a 1h pistol and wouldn’t save any crests.

[hollow hedge]

Hey guys. I give shit damage in solo que. Is there some trick to mange combo points. I've tried follow the 6+combo points in shadowdance, but is it different outside og shadowdance?

[lilac stag]

#pvp

[teal plaza]

I dont understand what you mean

[west bluff]

any way to check on logs how much CP are we using per average on finishers? i.e 6.1 CP spent per eviscerate

that possible?

[lilac stag]

The entire point of the 2H is to not drop 160 crests on two weapon upgrades when everyone else can drop 80

[teal plaza]

It still costs 160 for other dual wielders, no?

[fallow nimbus]

Blizz should fuck off with the mh and oh shit and make all weapons like the legion artifacts were

[teal plaza]

I miss legion artifacts

[fallow nimbus]

1 item that splits into 2 if you dual wield

[lilac stag]

Only for rogue and DH that didn’t craft an int sword

[teal plaza]

Legion might be the first "classic" expansion I actually put any time into

[teal plaza]

What about 1h and shield specs

[fallow nimbus]

Or just count highest item put into the slot

[lilac stag]

they all have a 2h option. You upgrade that and both 1h are free

[gilded ferry]

if classic rewarded something in retail, i would do it

[teal plaza]

Oh I see

[lilac stag]

are you following now?

[gilded ferry]

all i wanted was challenge mode mog from mop

i was too bad to do it at the time

[drifting igloo]

NA is back up on time

[wicked wadi]

Gl on goop

[lilac stag]

It was up 10 minutes ago

[astral axle]

what the fuck

[gilded ferry]

goddamn

[tidal solstice]

jealous

[wicked wadi]

bruh

[kind edge]

thats a 100% parse vault

[shadow urchin]

Trinket seller vaults

[tidal solstice]

think im gonna get the guidon. i could get the ring but ive got one waiting on the list from pit.

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-angry-kid-congrats-nice-happy-for-you-gif-16045257244806990422

[drifting igloo]

Already have Guidon, Myth head and chest... first token week for me

[tidal solstice]

alreayd have heroic guidon. maybe i just get the 6 tokens and bank on getting guidon as a drop

[shadow urchin]

We have yet to see a M guidon...

Not a single one

[tidal solstice]

oof

wow ok yeah we havent seen one either and have 3 kills now

[naive carbon]

anyone have the new talent build?

[drifting igloo]

I got M guidon off my first IA kill

like week 4

[somber sun]

yeah make the pistol shots and bte on outlaw require a firearm

[safe kindle]

wtf xD godvault

[brisk wind]

What’s the consensus on this update

[warm marlin]

deploying my 10min full recraft back to sub sim right as na reset hits and people are trying to sim vaults

my raidbots server space now

[somber sun]

👉👉👉👉 📌

[astral axle]

bro idk what i wanna pick

this is like choosing which of my 3 children i love the most

[hallow mortar]

how much haste % we playgin tommroow, anyone know

[gilded ferry]

buddies

[shadow urchin]

Im at 2% haste

[warm marlin]

huge kroluk's warbanner!

[shadow urchin]

Might go 3%

[tawny peak]

clearly, tokens. Don't you take Gaze? I don't raid at your level but it seems like the one taht would be in most demand?

[gilded ferry]

so sad that sub has 2 trinkets and thats it

[tropic aspen]

So does the pin information take into consideration that Fazed is still stacking to 3 with Cloud Cover?

[astral axle]

I have mythic gaze

[tawny peak]

oh, that's just cheating.

[astral axle]

yeah

[uncut juniper]

when is the tunning coming?

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin brother

[warm marlin]

crit still stacks

[lucid jackal]

WHy is this my vault

[warm marlin]

with fazed

[somber sun]

village region ?

[warm marlin]

ye ok bud giga op vaults

i see how it is

[uncut juniper]

NA server

[gilded ferry]

that neck

[somber sun]

bro its already up no ?

[gilded jungle]

Does anyone know if raid bots has been updated yet?

[uncut juniper]

I logged in and the faze thing still get 3 stacks

[lucid jackal]

am I suppose to take neck for crest save

[uncut juniper]

or I misunderstood something

[lucid jackal]

or sword for outlaw bis......

This is hard

[warm marlin]

you are too far in the hole already lil gup

[somber sun]

📌 📌 📌 📌

[warm marlin]

no crest save is saving you

[gilded ferry]

crest save? after killing lura?

[warm marlin]

big outlaw weapon

[gilded ferry]

the debt is already huge, no need to run to fix it now

glide that wave and leave the crest bill behind

[lucid jackal]

I'm already the least geared player in wow tbh

True

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

my dk that's less than 2 weeks old passes you in ilvl this week

is it genuinely over?

[gilded ferry]

alts have it way too good, we need to gatekeep it more

[tidal solstice]

mafic has worse gear

[lucid jackal]

I dont think so

I've literally saved crests on 0 items this entire tier

Its physically impossible to be lower geared than me

[spiral needle]

Is raidbots not updated with aura change yet?

[marble path]

im on l’ura and i still have crafted mh and none gaze bro

im fucking homeless

[chrome palm]

@lilac stag yeah bro name aint going blue any time soon

[jade oasis]

just got mythic stare on my shaman

[warm marlin]

outlaw is back on the menu

[chrome palm]

i mean, sub is still 3x stacks right?

[jade oasis]

and made fun of my dh and mages who dont have it on mains

[warm marlin]

nvm

[wild vine]

hopefully getting hotfixed fast

[chrome palm]

so its actually like a huge sub buff right?

[warm marlin]

outlaw is back off the menu

[chrome palm]

WTF

[wild vine]

dang

king of fakenews

[somber sun]

I wouldnt say huge

[tight fjord]

really this now?

[vale pine]

haha, expected

[cunning comet]

Uff my vault is complicated, what would you take Algethar's Puzzle (Myth track) or Alnseer (Hero track)

[austere elm]

is it worth to hold coup de grace for shadow dance in aoe/st? because the macro can be cringe.. like you would just want to black powder the remaining few mobs of the pack and keep the coup for the next pull?

[random mason]

Not puzzle box(personal opinion)

[worldly coral]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jade oasis]

'u can always kill chim first

then decide

[tidal solstice]

yeh more sht = more cp

[random mason]

But depends on your gear, if you pug myth chim, if you care more about raid or m+ performance etc

[tight fjord]

sht?

[random mason]

Puzzle pretty good for AoE and beloren specifically

[open vortex]

are the tuning changes in raidbots?

[gilded ferry]

is raidbots updated?

[spiral needle]

guessing no cause my damage tanked

[paper siren]

Bro still no Myth Gaze :9

[cunning comet]

Thanks, I guess I'm not that hardcore but I probably push harder content in keys than in raid

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/triples-kpop-soomin-kim-soomin-triples-soomin-gif-5173131514887427953

[vale pine]

not yet

[austere anvil]

the only thing i dont like with puzzle is that it dosnt line up with cd,s meaning its easy to forget to use it

[fading saffron]

we pivoting back to heavy mastery? or do we want mastery > crit but semi balanced

[vale pine]

The graph shows the spread

mastery slightly higher, but roughly same for mastery/crit

[lilac stag]

But what percent haste?

[austere anvil]

18-20% is 600-700 haste i think atm

[red flame]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-dumb-you-gif-8906255

[vale pine]

you want 700 haste ye

[cunning comet]

thx

[austere anvil]

so playing with puzzle means you only using it every 3min to line it up with your shadow blades , making it kind of good but also more managment on pulls etc to benefit from it

[cunning comet]

and Alnseer is passive

[austere anvil]

yepp

[sleek cradle]

hey which Number of Bosses and
Fight Length i use for M+

[sour horizon]

yay premed, I missed you

[sonic raven]

is raidbot/simcraft updated?

[lilac stag]

It will have a banner on the site when it is

[young heart]

Hmm is there something wrong with the sims? I'm checking the new (old) talent setup with No Scrupples against Cloud Cover and I'm around 2% down with No Scrupples. Roughly on equal crit/mastery and 700 haste. What am I missing?

[lilac stag]

Read 2 lines up

[ripe flame]

scroll a few msgs up

[lilac stag]

And the answer

[grand summit]

my vault is beans bro

[young heart]

Oh.

Sry about that.

[grand summit]

oh fuck I forgot

[patent ermine]

am I screwing myself hard by having 800 haste? or is it ok as a buffer and ignore it

I can kinda rearrange stuff, but idk if worth it

[young heart]

It should be worth it.

[stuck flicker]

Are sub rogue that unpopular in keys? I have a ahrd time getting invited in PUGS, is it because of lack of utility?

[somber sun]

what key level ?

also yes

[stuck flicker]

13+

[somber sun]

yeah

[cunning comet]

rogue in general i think?

[surreal orbit]

this game would be miserable if I didnt have a guild lmao

[somber sun]

gotta switch to assa lowkey

[stuck flicker]

getting declined for less geared/rio dev dh, mages and UHDk especially

[somber sun]

ikr

again

[stuck flicker]

i mean uhdk absolutely curbstomps rogue i nevery way tho

its fair

[somber sun]

you could be 290 ilevel

[surreal orbit]

people just drool on their keyboard and google 'Mythic+ meta class comp' and then brick the key because they cant play their class anyways

[somber sun]

and still getting declined

[forest meadow]

what keys? its tuesday so ppl with bricked vaults are also app'ing to 10-13s to send their 1 extra roll in stuff like pit

my 3.4k io 282 rogue didnt get into pit for 20 mins of straight apps

[stuck flicker]

the only reason I push keys is because I am part of an organzied M+ discord and I do my own key, otherwise no

[surreal orbit]

change character name to a girl name ez

[forest meadow]

it is what it is

[stuck flicker]

Yeah but why dont blizz make shroud useful or other stuff

Idk

[stuck lance]

Cause fuck you 😄 lol

[barren wedge]

Hey maybe I misunderstood something but on the sample here at 1:15 it only backstab for all 15 sec waiting for sectec and blades to align, shouldn't it eviscerate 1 or 2 times in this 15sec window ? maybe a condition failed with the fact that sectec is not on cd and just waiting for blade ?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f8uz1p9QQfkM8KLCSpzTsd

[random mason]

You dont wanna spend shadow technique stacks

[somber sun]

a frost mage dev was playing back then in tbc

got jumped by a rogue

and it translated to its current state now

[random mason]

Which you would if u finished and then started building again

[barren wedge]

I know but it doesn't act the same way for second baldes where it's waiting for sectec cd and not blades

[stuck flicker]

in pvp or pve?

cuz in pvp rogue still stomps everyone

obscene skill ceiling but still

[surreal orbit]

gameserver melted or just me

[grand summit]

wait so is sims upfated or no

[somber sun]

pvp

I mean its frost mage

even if rogue is op in pvp

[somber sun]

idk if y'all are doing it on purpose

[gilded ferry]

im on desperation mode, enchanted my two rings with haste to reach breakpoint

[grand summit]

I saw some dude do a quick sim ok ;-;

[grand summit]

I have like 400 haste and it is BEANS brother

[vale pine]

400 haste sounds not fun

[sleek musk]

being crit heavy over mastery still seems to sim higher

that the same for others?

[somber sun]

are you a f1 driver ?

[sonic raven]

anyone know if the voidcore bad luck protection is for the dungeon or key level? if run 10 or 12 they are on same bad luck protection or two different ones?

[somber sun]

and play with 0 ms ?

yeah same dw

you can see the drop table

[austere anvil]

sims aint updated for latest patch ?

[somber sun]

before rolling

btw

[vale pine]

thats the case with cloud cover

once the update changes go live

[west bluff]

i believe 10+ it's always the same item id and wouldn't matter the key level

[vale pine]

we move back away from cloud cover

[normal wolf]

Is adamantite sharpening stone better than Phoenix oil?

[tropic aspen]

that even with fazed stacking to 3 still?

[sleek musk]

i guess raidbots is not updated

with live servers

[vale pine]

yes

[lilac stag]

Chinese m+ gamer

[vale pine]

its not updated yet

[sleek musk]

thanks fuu

[lilac stag]

Fuu update raidbots already. Seesh

Just take sim. Add 2.5%

[normal wolf]

Tooptip says 4 wep dmg and 3 crit

[lilac stag]

Done.

[grand summit]

Fuu update raidbots already. Seesh

[somber sun]

just test for yourself bro

[vale pine]

yep

[barren wedge]

Hey @vale pine sry for the ping have you seen this (and the other message a bit below), is this normal ?

[gilded ferry]

leave the update like this then, please, im with 400 mastery and 1k crit

let me fool myself with sims

[vale pine]

haha

[somber sun]

xddddddd

how

[earnest crane]

is it still cirit better in M+

[vale pine]

cloud cover was fairly crit heavy

[lilac stag]

Go for crit flask