subtlety

[peak ice]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/ayijecdm

This one ae

[void ocean]

so far sensei resources and platinator

[hollow spear]

Zac is my ui goat

[peak ice]

It’s real nice on demon

But I didn’t particularly like the combo bars in rogue

But there’s probably a way to change it

[tribal blade]

haha i'm doing the exact same thing as you

i get a lot of anxiety setting up addons

[void ocean]

i mean i tried but the amount of bugs...

[tribal blade]

yeah thing is i know for a fact the blizz CDM will work

[peak ice]

I’m using better blizzard frames and plates

Seems decent

[void ocean]

im not saying i wont switch in the future but let it be this way for a season or 2

[tribal blade]

the blizz CDM is good enough for me

there's a few things i'm missing which sucks

but it's manageable

[void ocean]

ye the only thing i dont understand is why they didnt allow custom groups to be made

[azure thicket]

is it weird to put /cleartarget in front of a focus macro i feel like the out of the box option fails sometimes and grabs random shiet

[tribal blade]

or multiple bars yeah

[void ocean]

like why only 1 for major cd, utility n shit

[tribal blade]

not enough customization

[void ocean]

cause i rly liked splitting cds in the past

[tribal blade]

i think they're trying to do it in a hand holdy way

but it makes it very unfriendly to making it custom

[void ocean]

i collect info faster when i have to take a look into 2-3 icons than when i fish for the icon among 10 spells

[steel zinc]

Gets msuf and any good CDM. If something is missing in msuf let me know

[hollow spear]

Resolution a bit fuzzy due to mobile, but that's zac's ui

[tribal blade]

you should also be able to track any ability or talent you have including trinkets

[void ocean]

yea that too

[latent remnant]

Ayije is really nice

[steel zinc]

Yeah ayije is very good

Arc has performance issues

[hollow spear]

I've grown to hate arcui

Sometimes it randomly starts overlaying buff icons

[tribal blade]

took one look at arc's settings and was like nah

[hollow spear]

Making a big mess

[tribal blade]

there's 0 shot i set this up

[steel zinc]

Ayije has good defaults

Also easy to setup

[tribal blade]

easy to set up is very important to me

[steel zinc]

And really good performance wise

[tribal blade]

i might check out ayije

[short radish]

yeah but im kinda stuck with using it for now

i cbf redoing my entire UI again

the overlaying buff icons

drives me insane

but it causes me to just go "okay im removing those icons entirely"

CANT OVERLAY

IF THE ICONS DONT EXIST

[steel zinc]

Also also it's a pain as addon dev when blizzard just drops stuff out of the blue on patch day that was not on PTR

This will be all through midnight

[vale pine]

the addon stuff is a bit wild

because things are not stable

[steel zinc]

I test every patch like 5 hours otr

Ptr

[vale pine]

understandable

[void ocean]

oh shit just figured u made msuf 😄

gg

[steel zinc]

Yeah 👍

[dreamy wedge]

Hey people. Anyone knows what's the cutoff for rogues top 0.5% m+? Or maybe I am confusing the titles and it's a different %.n
I can see it's 1% now :X

[steel zinc]

If your using it and anything is missing let me know. Happy to help

[hollow spear]

Me too, because I'm on vacation and anything wow related does not worry me one bit

The only thing I'm overlaying rn is sushi rice and fresh fish

[void ocean]

I am using it, so far so good

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

Hell yeah

[short radish]

are you in/going to kyoto?

[hollow spear]

Going to, in Tokyo rn

[short radish]

are you going to shinjuku or is that done

https://maps.app.goo.gl/h2fp5jFH19igXhCM9

When you go to kyoto go here - unironically an acutal hidden gem.

They do this tomato curry tsukemen (also ramen)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/tc6EnEv7mVLLwcSD7

if you go to shinjuku, check this place out for soba

[hollow spear]

We're staying in Shinjuku 😅

[uncut monolith]

!ptr

[short radish]

and if youre passing by tokyo station - https://maps.app.goo.gl/gqtoUzmMGMVa3Wyt7

go buy these

feel free to thank me later

[hollow spear]

Hit me up in the DM

[short radish]

ye okay

[uncut monolith]

Pls link to upcoming ptr patch notes with rogue changes?:/

[void ocean]

nani

[short radish]

i'll dm in a bit. pugging chimmy

[hollow spear]

Oh good luck

Please nuke the augs and dev dh on the other side for me, ty

[void ocean]

the dungeon?

[hollow spear]

Nah, when you're phasing on chim

[void ocean]

i know, its just a running joke in my guild, whenever someone says "the other side" someone has to ask "the dungeon? "

[hollow spear]

Oh 😅

[void ocean]

its a reflex at this point

[hollow spear]

Wasn't aware of the lore

[craggy fractal]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/B5b5oV3NxhbLiA2s8
Pretty good "overlayed sushi rice and fresh fish" here if you go to Kyoto

[alpine wraith]

da oda side

[hazy breach]

Its not for rogue specifically, it's the same for everyone

Raider.io has em listed

[brisk onyx]

I've been to this store before, it's really good

[alpine wraith]

damn my people been to placs

i only go to colombia sometimes when some people die or because of business

[livid frigate]

any one here made it 3400 io with sub?

[empty bobcat]

my group will be pushing for it next week

15 resi so far with 2 16s

[livid frigate]

oh okay im 3069 atm and im trying to push for it

[vital ocean]

havent "pushed" just done weeklies, did a few 16s as sub as weeklies, id argue 3400 is doable for any class/spec

[livid frigate]

oh okay no worries ive been tryi9ng to find the right talents and its crazy how many different bits of gear people use

[empty bobcat]

problem is my comp has devourer and mage in it and both will get nerfs next week, no idea how we will perform

next week = current reset xD

[livid frigate]

oh okay and yeah i knew what you ment

[vital ocean]

i for sure just follow the guide in here, and the talents, this patch seems pretty chill

[cosmic dust]

Yeah did it in pugs

[livid frigate]

i dont under stand the rotation tho do you shadow strike or shuriken stor them pbox and balds dance sercet tech

[livid frigate]

what kinda of dps did you end up having at the end like as an average i think ive had max 141k overall

[vital ocean]

storm on 2+ targets outside of dance
shadow strike on 1-3 targets inside of dance

and just make sure you use secret tech + dance togeather

other than that i just Evis big guy (unless im playing for over all then i BP, but for 16s i just do the prio damage seems to make the packs easier)

[short radish]

based soba enjoyer

reject ramen, embrace soba (or udon)

[vital ocean]

some m+ andies might disagree with me for 20+ keys, but for 3400 its pretty chill

[livid frigate]

tech or dance first?

[vital ocean]

as stated in the rotion you wanna make sure you use tech inside of dance, i have htem macroed with dance first then tech

[vital ocean]

#subtlety-faq message

here you can see a step by step, its just that prio list over and over

[livid frigate]

okat tank you

[dreamy wedge]

Do you know when we started using strike on 3 targets? I rememberd it being 2 targets at the start of the season. Could it have to do with the cloud change, so it will be two again coming reset?

[cosmic dust]

You cannot really tell what overall is good imo, there are so much factors, is there an aug, how big does the tank pull and so on. If you want to know if dam is good, maybe log the runs

[vital ocean]

ehmm no idea when i was reading up on it for dragons mythic, so it might be outdated, but i read it as 3 targets you wanna use shadowstrike inside of shadow dance

but maybe it changes this reset, i think @vale pine is better at answering

[empty bobcat]

will it still be worth rolling for myth prism after tuning

[tardy solar]

did you just ask for the manager

[vital ocean]

i might have by mistake yes more of a "yo i cant answer this maybe this smart guy can"

[tardy solar]

[vital ocean]

[vale pine]

you want to use strike on 3 targets, yes

nothing changes with reset

gameplay stays unchanged

we just switch talents back to pre cloud cover

[vital ocean]

my "getting the manager" tag worked, thanks big guy

[storm cedar]

anyone knows the percentage of nerf or buff for sub rogues in pvp/pve in the upcoming class tuning?

[vital ocean]

its in pins

[empty bobcat]

like which is the best option for m+ if you have guidon and so far no chance on a mythic gaze?

[storm cedar]

ty XD

[livid frigate]

ty guys the answers really helped ❤️

[random mason]

Pug chimmy mythic to gamble for gaze? Else it would be prism from skyreach i think

[tribal blade]

run heroic chim every week

OR buy a carry

[dreamy wedge]

I use heroic drums -_-

[void ocean]

on my dk i got mythic prism and it loses to champion gaze in sims

that was a rollercoaster of emotions, first i was very happy to get it on a first roll...

[dreamy wedge]

So you are telling me I should do normal chim aswell? >>

[void ocean]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

if sims tell u the same, sure

[tribal blade]

dunno how n gaze would hold up against a myth track trink

it's quite a big diff

in ilvl

[void ocean]

i was surprised as well

[hollow quest]

Even my raid finder one does sim better then some myth trinkets

[dreamy wedge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r7A4d5bW3zMZbfW56eyvhD

[tribal blade]

damh that's crazy

[hollow quest]

Thats why im running with it while being 276

(And I don’t get others)

[dreamy wedge]

That's against heroic drums, mind you

[tribal blade]

was gonna say yeah

[void ocean]

well u can add both in top gear

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna give that a try, logging onto my char 😉

[void ocean]

and we can see

[tribal blade]

what ilvl does LFR cap at

[hollow quest]

250

[tribal blade]

cool

[hollow quest]

Well besides neck I think 256

Nvm 250 as well

[tribal blade]

for me 250 gaze is 0.2% better than heroic prism

and myth prism is 0.8% better than 250 gaze

[hollow quest]

thats what droptimizer is telling me and i would say its not much compared to lfr gaze

[void ocean]

now lets go 266 😛

[tribal blade]

276 gaze is 0.7% better than 289 prism

[hollow quest]

Ye gaze is just the pinnacle

[tribal blade]

289 prism is 0.2% better than 263 normal gaze

yeah i suspected that

that ilvl diff is big

granted this is in my specific gear setup

oh actually the setup i'm in favors mast a bit more than crit atm

[hollow quest]

well after next patch its even no?

[tribal blade]

even or you want a bit more mast than crit

[hollow quest]

ye

[tribal blade]

having more mast leads to more stable dps

which is what i'm considering to do

[void ocean]

so mast flask?

[dreamy wedge]

(he really means more padding)

[hollow quest]

ye im sitting at 758mast and 894crit atm

[tribal blade]

yeah all i do on reset is literally swap flask to mast lol

and maybe gems

from crit>mast

[void ocean]

im currently on like 824 crit and 720 mast

so mast flask is gonna be good

that ring from npx saved me

i was cursing my luck for getting haste mastery

but then tunning hit

[hollow quest]

istg the void one is a myth to be dropped

[void ocean]

could be

i spent 3 rolls to get this one

now i have 4 items left in the pool

[hollow quest]

hopefully next reset with bonus rolls im sitting at a 289 light one alr

[void ocean]

but since i have a crafted ring as welli decided to stop rolling

[hollow quest]

ic

im too invested now i want that ring

[tribal blade]

my guild had a 0.1% wipe on crown

my strikes on the boss crit ~5-6% less than they should have

so

i got RNG'd

[alpine wraith]

rip

[long cape]

How much mastery should i have and how much crit?

[hollow quest]

rip

[alpine wraith]

if you have more than 1 mastery and crit it should be fine

but yea just kinda sim

most important is getting to around 700 haste

[void ocean]

42

[alpine wraith]

then stats kinda level out

[tribal blade]

can you math how much dmg i lost from that possibly

iirc the boss was at like 900k hp or something

[alpine wraith]

ahaha i guess if you count from p2 to ending

[tribal blade]

oh it's weird because i don't know if they were regular strikes or blades strikes

[vale osprey]

Were you using the noggenfogger tech?

[tribal blade]

nah i wasn't, what's that

[vale osprey]

You use noggenfogger elixir and it turns you into a dope ass skeleton and then the universe favours you more so you crit a lot!!

[tribal blade]

LOL

you know i used to carry around a lot of noggenfogger because undead is so cool

i might start doing that again

good tip

[vale osprey]

The undermine toy was a game changer

Never have to carry them again

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that's cool, but it has a long ass cd

also my guild's priests know i love using it

so whenever i get the race i want

they life grip or swapblast me into it

to change it

i hate them

[craggy fractal]

you're not thinking about the right toy

[tribal blade]

OH

shit i'm gonna go buy that right now

[maiden gale]

hellow fellow sub peeps, i'm having trouble figure out stats, I thought after 10.0.5 we are supposed to go crit > mastery but sims say i should pick up mastery flask and mastery heavy neck, AM i simming wrong ? no more Dungeon slice right ? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wMR9JTzbs6C5zTFX393QwZ

[tribal blade]

we don't stack vers anymore

[maiden gale]

did we ever ? T_T

[tribal blade]

before midnight yes

[maiden gale]

no i didn't go that far back

didn't even mlenti

didn't even mention vers*

[maiden gale]

shit mb

crit > mastery

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't worry about current sims

because on reset we go back to our old build

where we want equal mast and crit or slightly more mast

[tribal blade]

i would also do dslice instead of patchwerk 5 targets

[maiden gale]

other changes after this reset ? can't keep up xD thank god for this discord and everyone here

[tribal blade]

the sim might also be doing weird things with gear because of haste

TLDR we go back to our old build we had before .5 patch

[void ocean]

10.0.5 thats like vault of incarnates, right

[tribal blade]

and then same stat weights as then

[radiant swift]

can u buy this

[tribal blade]

5k resonance crystals in the undermine

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=231408/lab-assistant-laszly

[radiant swift]

surely thats easy to farm or one already has

tyty

[tribal blade]

those crystals are notoriously annoying to farm

[radiant swift]

damn u couldve just lied

[tribal blade]

hahaaa

a lot of people hated them

[radiant swift]

prob a reason

[tribal blade]

my guild is full of collectors

who do housing too

[alpine wraith]

it was easier to create alts

[tribal blade]

a big bottleneck during TWW for stuff was those crystals

[alpine wraith]

and level them to get all the renown crystals

than try and farm them

[radiant swift]

damn farm crystals

rather than sit 3h in m+ queue

[alpine wraith]

they were that bad

[radiant swift]

are your guildies trying to have fun?

[tribal blade]

lol that's their idea of fun

i do collecting too

it's a fun way to relax in game and have an objective

[radiant swift]

https://tenor.com/view/sarcasm-sarcasm-sign-bbt-big-bang-theory-gif-24360926

[tribal blade]

whenever i'm not pushing title i usually get on the collecting train

[tribal blade]

WHAT'S THAT

[tribal blade]

https://tenor.com/view/sarcasm-sarcasm-sign-bbt-big-bang-theory-gif-24360926

damn i just owned myself

get fucked

idiot

[fossil forge]

story in 2 pictures

[radiant swift]

imagine owning yourself

sub behaviour

[young apex]

Yo boys again uhm when i have the shuriken storm buff how and when do i use it properly cause i rarely use it

[steel zinc]

Outside CDs you want to spend it

It's better then bs

[tribal blade]

i'm a savage rarrrrr

[young apex]

So only outside cds

Not inside cds

[marble sail]

!ss

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[void ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxiwk2Jfxc

[fossil forge]

holy throwback

[tribal blade]

lol the "ok" got me

[empty bobcat]

sims being updated tonight?

[radiant swift]

i sometiems think people check out the discord to see if they wanna play rogue, and then go "nah"

[tribal blade]

hehe nah, there's way more reasons to not play rogue unfortunately

[radiant swift]

wdym best class

[tribal blade]

true!

[radiant swift]

undead rogue is bis

no questions

[vital ocean]

panda rogue is better though, cause they look so fucking silly

[lucid jackal]

Here's a simple logic tree

Rogue is fun, therefore its worth playing

[vital ocean]

so is crack

[vale osprey]

God bless

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t played mine since raid Thursday, and I’m already noticing that food is tasting better, everything looks more vibrant, the sun in shining brighter, etc

[mighty citrus]

it actually is, ofc things are more fun, if you are smashing everything in every situation, but thats not how things are usually right

i played now all three specs in mythic raid and dungeons and all are fun in their own way

at least for me

[compact pollen]

Rogue is best class.

[tribal blade]

damn

[steel zinc]

I would argue yes but also as DPS player if like at the start of midnight all 3 rogue specs are garbo tuned then no it's not fun

[lucid jackal]

Even if Ur trash on prog there's months of farm to go thru

[radiant swift]

herecy

[craggy fractal]

The.. Sun ? You looked outside ?

[swift tinsel]

I’m holding on to the guild social aspect til the end of our prog

Since I’m stuck on rogue til then

[swift tinsel]

I’m actually outside all the time when it starts to warm up here

In late spring/summer I typically don’t game until after the sun is down

[vital ocean]

i smell a parking lot fight about this

[radiant swift]

u have 0 chance

[vital ocean]

just know i take off all my clothes for street fights

[vale osprey]

Got sat for paladins and crown this tier for prog --> work was the busiest it's been for those two weeks

Easy 😎

[runic sinew]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[radiant swift]

rhats two of us

[pulsar flame]

what stats u go for patch?
now i have like 1,200 crit 700 haste and 500 mastery.
it plan to go switch 1100 mastery and 600 crit like before 12.0.5?

[vital ocean]

fuck my secret technique is stolen

[radiant swift]

unpatched method

[hazy breach]

• Old talents also means that after the Haste breakpoint, its probably more worth to go Mastery than Critical Strike, or atleast have them fairly balanced. If you went full crit for cloud cover its probably time to swap back to Mastery Flask.

Per the pin

[crystal bone]

cloud cover was a great 2 week meme, back to reality friends

[alpine wraith]

blizz wants us to get mastery

but not cleave or aoe that is too much

[swift tinsel]

Or burst apparently

[alpine wraith]

we havent had real burst in years

just slighly more than others

[empty bobcat]

Im at 30/20/60 with mastery flask and oils - guess Ill just keep it that way and see

[rain swift]

how big is this change in terms of damage?

[cosmic dust]

Round about %

[rain swift]

was already told but ty

[cosmic dust]

I had it in my mind and had to type it sry hahaha

[rain swift]

[solemn lance]

Im most bummed that we got a cool graphic. That was the real issue for blizzard so they took that shit away

[somber sun]

👉👉👉👉👉 📌

we still do sht damage

so why even bother

[rain swift]

well, if we do shit damage, every small change is big

[quaint breach]

actually the opposite

[tame notch]

Well small % of shit is still shit

[rain swift]

a buff is a buff

[tribal blade]

i think sub is actually far more decent in raid than the statistics show

all 3 rogue specs are being dragged down by paladins

[drifting ether]

Rip don't think i'll be doing this burst after tuning for crown prog

[minor osprey]

i'm jealous no shadow priest or balance dudu

[tribal blade]

main issue i'm worried about is timings going from P1>P2 becoming wonky

[drifting ether]

Shadow coming next one 🤣

[alpine wraith]

they are not if you kill last miniboss at the same time as usual

[tribal blade]

mmm if you hit it with the same arrow true

ok yeah

that's actually a good way to keep timings the same

[drifting ether]

Hp reduction by 10% on p1 tho

[tribal blade]

yeah

[alpine wraith]

yea but the miniboss can stay at 0 hp

[tribal blade]

but you can just get the last add down

[alpine wraith]

until you hit with arrow

[tribal blade]

then wait till that arrow yeah

[alpine wraith]

unless you want to krangle your timers

[tribal blade]

can't krangle timers

[alpine wraith]

by hitting with early arrows the others

[tribal blade]

or else arcane/ele can't burst down the add in P2

in lust

[drifting ether]

Ooh yeah true, but we lose the cloudbuff for the amps but it'll probaly even out later on the fights

[tribal blade]

it'll be fine

we're gaining more dmg

and we just do more flatline dps than burst

[mighty citrus]

the cloud visual sucked anyway 😄

but it was indeed nice to have big boy burst again

[tribal blade]

i'm happy cloud is going

the variance was very annoying

[drifting ether]

Bruh i coudnt see shit with cloud

[tribal blade]

that too

impossible to see puddles on crown P1

[mighty citrus]

yeah you needed to watch the blobs before and even then tricky, but managable tbh

and having prem back as the optimal talent

is personally good as well

chain bs is just kinda weird

[tribal blade]

i was not happy about a lot of the cloud stuff

the variance/the visual/running wonky talents

i'm happy it's back to normal

[drifting ether]

The burst was nice, reminded me of flag but happy to go back now

[crystal bone]

my raid leader will like it too

"dude wtf is this cloud of smoke"

[tribal blade]

they did at least change it to only be visible by the rogue 😉

after massive outcry

[alpine wraith]

now it will be visible to no one

kek

[tribal blade]

LOL TRUE

unless you play outlaw

because they'll still be running cloud

[twin surge]

like how hard was it to just put a 20 sec buff now 12 sec instead all these shenanigans.. it's pretty good example of unnecessary shit

[crystal bone]

i am his POV however

[tribal blade]

OH i see

damn your RL chose a melee pov

what a madman

[crystal bone]

idk how he doesnt get dizzy

[tribal blade]

why not a ranged

it's WAY easier to see everything

melee pov is cursed

[crystal bone]

he doesnt have a lot of options though. our other officer on the team is ranged but uses an HDR monitor

so he gets blinded

or gets dizzy

[tribal blade]

ahhh interesting

[crystal bone]

i have to play the game for his eyes which is a new challenge

look at every gloam soak

etc

[tribal blade]

yeah that's kinda like having your own personal affix

[crystal bone]

paladin prog seems to be fine tho

[drifting ether]

Lmao that’s crazy

[crystal bone]

had to swap to sin tho

99 parsing sub gets beat by grey parsing aug on that fight

[tribal blade]

i think you can run sub

[crystal bone]

[tribal blade]

so thing is

top end sub is now close to doing what sin was doing on average a few weeks ago

[peak ice]

Whats doing the best against crown atm?

[tribal blade]

and on reset sub gets more dmg

[left ledge]

Sub

By far

[tribal blade]

and paladins is not really a hard dps check

it's a live check

[ashen trail]

with the changes coming tomorrow which rogue spec would be the best for M+ in trying to hit 3400io?

[tribal blade]

and sub is WAY tankier than sin

[crystal bone]

yea sub is super tanky

[peak ice]

Sub on crown?

[left ledge]

Yes

[peak ice]

Sweet

[tribal blade]

sub is very good on crown

sub is good in this raid

just sucks on paladins

and that drags down the metrics

[left ledge]

Idk if I’d say good

[peak ice]

I never seem to do bad on paladins

[tribal blade]

it's pretty good

[peak ice]

just kinda mid

[tribal blade]

not stellar

[peak ice]

low mid

[drifting ether]

And going back to mastery we do better finishers

[tribal blade]

nah

[left ledge]

We are literally below average

But yeah

You can do ok on some fights

[peak ice]

I mean me personally

overall yea probs

[tribal blade]

people see the overall raid statistics and think sub is bad dps

it's not that bad

[crystal bone]

idk i'm having to use haste flask to maintain the 700

[peak ice]

Dk in crown seems to do just crazy numbers

[tribal blade]

sub is right behind DK on crown dmg

and on reset sub will be beating DK

[crystal bone]

fuck it ill try sub on paladins

[left ledge]

Yeah don’t do that

[crystal bone]

next weekend

[left ledge]

That one is not a good idea

[tribal blade]

i think it doesn't matter anymore on paladins

[peak ice]

I tried to change to assa for papaldins

[mighty citrus]

unfortunately i had to play paladin on reclear, destroyed my avg parse 😄

[peak ice]

felt so rusty

[mighty citrus]

tried outlaw

sucked at it

sad

[peak ice]

yea haha same experience basically

[tribal blade]

weeks ago when i was progging paladins, yes not going sin was int

[crystal bone]

im doing well as sin i just dont like it lol

[tribal blade]

but now

i think going sub is probably fine

ramping raid buff

sub buff

[peak ice]

Im just not used to it

[crystal bone]

and i can feel how much more squishy i am

[peak ice]

and i find steel tempest real fuckn clunky

[mighty citrus]

iam fine on sin and sub, i just suck at ol

[summer mason]

Guys, can you explain this whole breakpoint thing with 700 haste + guidon, or 800 without it, and why you need to do it?

[crystal bone]

u think u can take the 8% healing received over premed just for paladins?

[left ledge]

Who said 800 without it

[spiral pewter]

is the new balance patch looking like a buff or nerf for us?

[left ledge]

I never heard of that tbh

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't no

[peak ice]

its in the guide

[tribal blade]

so sub is still ~20k dps behind sin on paladins, which was the same gap a few weeks ago

[left ledge]

Being at 700 post buffs lines things up nicely for you in terms of cds, and when you use guidon you get pretty much 2 extra gcds in dance and can double sectec in blades

[tribal blade]

but now sub has caught up to the numbers sin was doing those weeks ago

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is like, goodish

[peak ice]

you need 800 to get 2 sec tec without guidon

[left ledge]

Yeah something like that

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

i don't buy rogue being bad in this raid

[amber solar]

Hi all, new poster to the discord. Just wanting to know on top of the changes back to pre 12.05 . are we almost alwayss running TFD again also in M+?

[crystal bone]

it was rough at first

but good spot now i think

[mighty citrus]

as always people see world first

not using rogue everywhere

[left ledge]

For prog you are ok on bosses that have decent pull counts

[mighty citrus]

=bad

[left ledge]

Nah that’s not it either

[tribal blade]

the raid buff thing though

[left ledge]

Before buffs we were just full stinker shit

[tribal blade]

is what is really killing rogue atm

[lusty narwhal]

our raid buff just sucks because it does not work on many abilities and does nothing

[crystal bone]

i feel like atrophic is not bad it just doesnt work half the time

[grizzled gust]

devo aura is just better atrophic poison

[left ledge]

Well

Devo is 3%

[peak ice]

3% damage buff or something

ez

[tribal blade]

doesn't work on half the stuff, and also nobody cares about DR really

[peak ice]

like raid aura

[tribal blade]

people just wanna do more dmg

[left ledge]

People care about DR for sure on prog

[tribal blade]

if atrophic worked on everything however i suspect we'd have a possible guaranteed raid spot

but i think a dmg raid buff is better

[left ledge]

Atrophic can be quite a powerful prog tool

[tribal blade]

select people care yes

[peak ice]

just doesnt work on aoe n stuff does it

[grizzled gust]

yeah. I like the fantasy of our raid buff being a poision but "Sometimes the target does 3% less damage" vs
"You take 3% less damage as long as you are next to me" feels the same

[tribal blade]

but don't forget M+

NOBODY cares about atrophic

at all

[upbeat cradle]

lul

[crystal bone]

max said he would've loved rogue for paladins, unfortunatley the damage wasn't there at the time

[left ledge]

Works on anything from the target you put atrophic on

[tribal blade]

the raid buff stacking meta is alive and strong in keys

[upbeat cradle]

3% is barely noticeable when you get one shot anyways

[left ledge]

Just doesn’t work on environmental stuff

[crystal bone]

or maybe it was there, its just mm was doing 3x

[vale pine]

tfd is good in dungeons you can restealth/proc it regularely

[tribal blade]

actually the contrary, atrophic is incredibly good when you're doing title range keys and stuff is 1 shotting

[lusty narwhal]

skyfury is the best raid buff by far…

[vale pine]

so can use it, don't need to

[tribal blade]

the only time people care about atrophic in keys is when we're trying to figure out how to live 1 shots

using notevenclose

and then atrophic is usually the make or break between some people living or not living a 1 shot

[amber solar]

cheers

also is it not just viable to always run numbing becaue of all the reasons stated above?

[left ledge]

Idk if you’d go atrophic over numbing for m+

[tribal blade]

hell yeah you would

numbing does nothing on bosses

[vale pine]

i would just default to numbing

[tribal blade]

when you're doing very high keys bosses are really hard

[vale pine]

and go atrophic in raids or keys with oneshots if you can prevent them

[tribal blade]

and atrophic is better

[vale pine]

ye

[grizzled gust]

I think atrophic poison works in theory the problem is just how its coded, if it actually was a flat 3.6% DR on all damage done by the target, it'd be worth it.

[tribal blade]

literally any time i would ask a group should i run atrophic or numbing

the healer will immediately say atrophic

[amber solar]

ye i figured that much. seems to be a great prog and numbing outside of that.

love seeing how active you guys are!

[lusty narwhal]

a lot of time chatting while benching

[tribal blade]

numbing is really good on trash for sure

but then you're only getting the benefit for like 50% of the key

and bosses make up the other 50%

[amber solar]

seems to be nice on chim intermission phase etc

[tribal blade]

a lot of people underestimate how much of keys are made up of boss fights

[peak ice]

Sorry during shadow dance, the sequence is?

[grizzled gust]

personally i think it'd be cool if nobody had a raid buff, or instead the "raid buff" was just you do 1% more damage by having one of every class stacking up to 13%

[amber solar]

oh another thing i wanted to know, is it worth filling last global before dance with shiv(+ TS) to go in with full combo points ever? i was playing with it after the 12.05 changes.

[grizzled gust]

Or if every class had a Death Grip style raid buff. I think utility that fights are built around is much cooler than flat number go up

[tribal blade]

oh that's actually an interesting idea

it's slightly boring in a way, but it's very logical

and would help encourage taking 1 of every class without making imbalances

[void ocean]

or to get benched if its between u and some class that is missing

[grizzled gust]

the raids would probably look like one of every class and then 12 devourer dhs yeah thatd be the problem

[void ocean]

like we already have bdk tank sry frostie 😄

[grizzled gust]

tho that problem would exist no matter what because FDK....

Well....

[tribal blade]

yeah but that's already happening right now

that idea would create a lot of equality

across all the classes

[grizzled gust]

yeah everyone would have one slot at least reserved for them

[tribal blade]

also all key groups would be equal in power output raid buff wise

yeah i really like that idea

[grizzled gust]

im still confused why blizz never tried it

[tribal blade]

i think our current system is more interesting for sure

[void ocean]

i meant more like 1% additional dps for everyone is huge so u might get benched for shittier dps just cause hes gonna bring more %

[tribal blade]

but what it has in being interesting it loses in function

[grizzled gust]

sure the idea is just to give a flat "hey bring one of everyone" thing

[tribal blade]

i think he meant each individual class would add 1%

[grizzled gust]

she*

[tribal blade]

oh she mb

[grizzled gust]

but yeah each individual separate class adds 1% damage

stacking to 13% total

[tribal blade]

cool i dea

[grizzled gust]

since that'd be one of each one at least

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna parrot that around a bit

[grizzled gust]

that leaves TWELVE slots for whatever else in a full 25 stack

[upbeat cradle]

kinda like in FF14 ?

[tribal blade]

great point

[peak ice]

Also, when i review my parse it always says ive wasted like 30% of my energy, is there something I am doing wrong? I feel like im always pretty full

[tribal blade]

unfortunately never played that game 😉

and blizz doesn't mind stealing from other games anyways

[upbeat cradle]

basically there are 8 roles and if you have one of each your whole party gets a bonus damage

[void ocean]

we r always full of energy during dance

[upbeat cradle]

or something like that

haven't played in ages

[grizzled gust]

it's either that or give each class an ability that makes them mandatory like grip

[tribal blade]

if you mean full as in you're capped on energy, that's where it's going to waste

[peak ice]

so just sorta ignore this?

[tribal blade]

as soon as your energy hits max and you're not in dance then you're wasting energy

[strong jay]

Are you guys running puzzle box or guidon in m+?

[grizzled gust]

like shroud work in a bossfight or something.

[void ocean]

outside of dance ud need to afk for 3 mins to overcap 😄

[grizzled gust]

Guidon

kill the box

kill it

[strong jay]

i agree that puzzle box needs to get taken out back, but isnt the aoe damage from it kinda nuts

st is by far and wide better with guidon ive found

[peak ice]

It might just be counting the intermission as like "0 energy used"

[void ocean]

yea energy management is not smth we play around

so dw about it

[grizzled gust]

imo the friction with Puzzle box is just not worth it in any scenario, having the extra global in SD works in both ST and AOE equally

[peak ice]

aight

but during dance i am shadow striking to proc ancient arts between every eviscerate right?

[grizzled gust]

yes

[void ocean]

no

[hazy breach]

no

[strong jay]

yea thats fair enough

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[hazy breach]

Only if all of these are true

[peak ice]

So say i dont have darkest night or a supercarged comob

i just evis?

[hazy breach]

yes

[peak ice]

okay cool

and outside of shadow dance, u just build and spend?

[void ocean]

basically if u play trickster u only have to pay attention to the second finisher

or in case of second dance during blades first one too

cause in most cases first finisher is sec tech

the only case when sec tech is not ur first finisher in dance should be during blades when u dont have lust

(also theres a scenario where if u prepull dance u can have 2 more finishers with supercharge)

[peak ice]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh

i get it

i think

[raw frost]

Builder spender thats it

No need to pay attention that much aside of minmaxing

[strong jay]

correct if im wrong but that optimization usually takes care of itself because of sectech generating a gajillion shadow technique stacks or?

[peak ice]

Aight, I might have just gotten overly focused on apply ancient arts as much as possible

[void ocean]

not always

[raw frost]

You apply it onlynof you have point sracks from shadow tech

And thats only in cds

I dont even pay attention to it , its auto xd

[peak ice]

Aight

[raw frost]

If you have shadow tech points you can aply if you dont you cant xd

Simple as that

[peak ice]

Seems to be that you only care about it if it’s part of the supercharged finisher anyways

[dense beacon]

total rogue newb..just got my second charge of Shadow Dance..the first one Im popping shadow blades and secret teqnique after. what is the second one for? just another burst cd so I can use Shadowstrike instead of Backstab for some extra burst?

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hand-on-shoulder-alright-bro-5NbbVJeSLs1etZYjpT

[naive carbon]

you want to be able to get as many finishers off in Shadow blades as possible, and shadow dance gives you a lot more energy/combo points due to talents

[void ocean]

sub rogue doesnt do dmg outside of those dances so yea, u want to do them the best way possible

[peak ice]

We need to be balder

[paper trail]

If we dont have guidon and running box i want it to procc mastery i assume ?💀

[hazy breach]

What

Box always gives mastery

[torpid echo]

currently runing 15s, when will I stop getting invs as sub? xD

[quaint breach]

17

[somber sun]

oh because you guys are getting invited

I see

[paper trail]

Lol brain fog

[torpid echo]

i can have fun for 2 more key levels then xD

[quaint breach]

having an appealing note helps tbh

[strong jay]

what do you guys do on boss fights in m+ that are 2-3 targets? just cry or

is there a secret jutsu that does damage

[torpid echo]

ask for tank to pull more adds to boss xD

[warm marlin]

if you have more mastery than usual being specced into keys bp will do some damage

but mostly cry

[strong jay]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-glorpshit-gif-8895203662174851858

[peak ice]

Which m+ boss is multiple targets

Might be having a blonde moment

[torpid echo]

seat ig?

[warm marlin]

windrunner duo, seat triple

pit ick and krick

magister jellyfish

[torpid echo]

those are really bad, I feel so useless

[peak ice]

I feel like ick and krick is kinda different

[torpid echo]

i try to blow adds up and help heal tbh and let others pump xD

[warm marlin]

maisara duo as well

[peak ice]

I should get out of skyreach more

[naive carbon]

During Shadow Blades, if you have time for a 2nd ST before SB expires, is it better to use it then or wait for shadow dance?

[hazy breach]

!blades

[wicked jolt]

Trickster Shadow Blades Optimization:
During Shadow Blades, line up your second Shadow Dance with the last 8 seconds of Shadow Blades instead of using them back-to-back. This allows you to fit another Secret Technique into Shadow Blades+Shadow Dance. It will not be supercharged but thats ok in this scenario.

[naive carbon]

Ty

[empty bobcat]

Pit last boss spawns lots of adds, also bird and guy in caverns can be cleaved a bit. windrunner spinnign guy has add phase

and academy first boss ofc

[peak ice]

Think it’s less of an issue when there’s more than 2/3

[empty bobcat]

oh you mean 2-3 targets allt the time

just SS+bomb

and I do shuriken outside of dance

[warm marlin]

ye they were talking about sub's low target cleave weakness specifically

[empty bobcat]

ok I get it

[peak ice]

Think that’s all you can do really

[empty bobcat]

ye

[warm marlin]

#revertnimble

[empty bobcat]

sub is more about prio target and add bombing, I like it actually

[peak ice]

Are we that bad in those fights? I never really noticed

[swift tinsel]

I'd normally just look to even health bars if one is ahead of the other when not bp'ing

[warm marlin]

yes we are that bad in those fights

[empty bobcat]

I like to burst down casters when its needed, we actually can make a difference in keys

[swift tinsel]

sub's low target cleave is very bad

and we're the literal worst in the game at paladins

[empty bobcat]

or mobs that require shield bursts

I mean isnt it fine that every class has its role?

[swift tinsel]

sub doesn't really have a role that it excels at

not like previously

arguably greatest strength in keys is being able to do good single target boss damage with m+ talents

but you can route in ways where that's less impactful

so its a bit of a thing

[quaint breach]

assa in tww was sad st in m+

[empty bobcat]

thats fine for me - I can keep up with the devourer in our group on overall dps too, but maybe he just aint good

[swift tinsel]

the moment you pulled adds into a prio mob or boss tho

[quaint breach]

that doesnt happen with pug tanks :<

think 2 tanks out of all my runs has done it

[swift tinsel]

you could always ask

[peak ice]

Feel like it happens quite often in higher keys

[swift tinsel]

"hey I do way more damage if we pull mobs into bosses and it'll make the key go faster/better"

but ye the higher you go the more tanks understand that

esp if you communicate with them

[peak ice]

Defo doesn’t when I’m just like filling the vault with 10s

[quaint breach]

but as it is now, sub doesnt gain that much no except for standard aoe

[swift tinsel]

playing sin in vault 10's feelsbadman

[quaint breach]

sin on the other hand

[swift tinsel]

by the time you have bleeds out in any decent pull its 2/3 dead

[peak ice]

Yeah sin at low keys is

Something

[swift tinsel]

if not outright dead lol

[marble sail]

Just play SD and ur fine

[peak ice]

Yea, I normally just run sub, safe

[hazy breach]

I would prefer for them to give us something that makes sub insano at huge target counts. Like its fine to be bad at low target count if youre really strong at high target counts

But BP softcapped at 8 aint it

[swift tinsel]

like reverting the Potent Powder nerf

and then buffing it

[hazy breach]

More like epidemic/uncapped BP type shit

[swift tinsel]

and making apex clones buffed by it too

and that

[warm marlin]

I miss being able to do aoe without feeling like im a chud just killing slop while inting prio damage

I know that pressing bp was never that big a loss over eviscing but conceptually it hurt

[swift tinsel]

singular should be a spec talent and apply to our target

[warm marlin]

and being insane at huge target counts is reserved for casters (udk is a caster)

[swift tinsel]

funnel clone dmg

the forbidden dmg

targets hit by phys hit of sectech are marked for X seconds, clone/bp dmg funnel into them

or something

cause servers to explode in large target counts

[modern whale]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[eternal gyro]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[plush roost]

I think strangely this season there is so much insane prio that maybe sub is actually good

It has the devour niche of aoe pad

But in ny experience

Prio mobs die

And then ur hitting smallies for 20 seconds

Cause chaining 3 enforcers is illegal

Or w.e mob

I still think goremaws should make next 3 evis cleave 2 extra targets at X value.

Imagine DS sub aoe play pattern of cycling marks with bp in your goremaws window for fat cleave DNs

Could be sick

[astral axle]

Chefrend

[hazy breach]

Goremaw just needs to do anything at all

[fair stump]

How has it gone this long without being useful

Dead talent no one takes since DF

[peak ice]

Do we ever take it atm

[astral axle]

maybe if you're mafic

:]

[plush roost]

Goremaw does stuff tho? It STRIKES the target with the FORCE of a FELHOUND AWOOOO and makes your next THREE (3) finishers AMERICAN BABY (FRÈEEEEEEEEEE)

[peak ice]

…I’m not

[hazy breach]

Less damage than a strike

[peak ice]

Feel like there’s a few dress choices in the tree

[warm marlin]

idk the few times i played it in lower stuff it just felt undertuned but maybe we pulled too small

[plush roost]

I think rn its just undertuned ye

After reset tho?

Idk...

[peak ice]

Still think we need a little numbers bump

[plush roost]

Maybe a mastery stack angle

Low haste?!?

[hazy breach]

Ain't no way the spec that got its AOE needed by 25% ended up undertuned

[plush roost]

I will let my vault decide for me

If its lura neck

We ball

[empty bobcat]

I get my haste from gear alone, means I can go Mastery+crit gems tomorrow right?

[plush roost]

Ye

[peak ice]

Yep

[plush roost]

If ur haste gud then u want no more

[empty bobcat]

725 with oils

[white nova]

We won’t be that much more powerful after Tuesday right?

[peak ice]

Like 2% or whatever is pinned

[white nova]

Booo. Give me the whole 7

(I don’t know how math works)

[plush roost]

In st, i think in aoe its a bit more

Since youre less reliant on crit damage

[hazy breach]

Just double enchant weapon with mastery and get haste anyway

[plush roost]

And more mastery based

[peak ice]

Feel like the whole 7 would have been perfect

[empty bobcat]

M+ should be much better yes

[wheat crypt]

Guysoo what is good avrage dps for mc 12 or higher

[versed scroll]

just focus mainly on mastery and some crit... haste is useless unless you want st damage, but in m+... meh

[hazy breach]

Idk haste is absolutely not useless in aoe

[sullen hare]

Not useless but less valuable after certain breakpoints

[gilded ferry]

we need rogues with 5 combo points again

ill die on that hill

[versed scroll]

a lot less valuable than any amount of mastery

[hazy breach]

Not really

[wheat crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/raaawwhh-gif-4407121072877398271

[shadow urchin]

Give me back 10

[empty bobcat]

no more primary stat?

[gilded ferry]

at what point do we stop being rogues and start being enh...... one thing for you to think about......

[hazy breach]

Never was if you wanted to only optimize for 10+ targets

[empty bobcat]

I thought we always go ren'dorei

[shadow urchin]

10 cp, ms bleed advances and minute cd dance

[hazy breach]

Yes

[shadow urchin]

Take me back to wod

[peak ice]

Yea double ren is still the correct choice I think

[plush roost]

Make slice n dice scale with mastery again cowards

[empty bobcat]

think I will just sim it when patch is out and see, like to keep it balanced for M+ since boss dmg is not unimportant

[swift tinsel]

legit been asking for this for a while now

it is a finisher, make it scale with mastery again

[plush roost]

Scales with mastery, scales with haste, we hit so fast skyfury is unneeded

[swift tinsel]

I want my auto attacks to bend space and time

[plush roost]

Problem solved

[swift tinsel]

they really, really do need to address skyfury for melee

[plush roost]

Its extra bad this seasom

Like banshers team is just gimped from having no skyfury

[gilded ferry]

we need an exec with a edgy kid that likes playing rogue and using eng goggles

thats the only way

[swift tinsel]

the mastery bit of the buff is perfectly fine, but the auto attack portion needs to go

[plush roost]

Or

Or

I have a cook

[swift tinsel]

(give it to us)

[plush roost]

Rogue gets a crit version of skyfury

[peak ice]

I miss engineering not being a meme

[swift tinsel]

like your crits crit?

multikstrike but for crits only

[gilded ferry]

your crits do 50% more damage

infinite edge in WoW

[swift tinsel]

or do you mean its crit plus auto attack thing

[plush roost]

I was thinking more like windfury with 2%

Bu

But

Multistrike on crits kinda sounds hard

Probably op af tho

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah

[peak ice]

Feel like it would be broken

[swift tinsel]

esp if you're an auto-crit spell spec

[warm marlin]

muh collapsing star multistrike

[gilded ferry]

anything procc based for me its kinda unfair

[empty bobcat]

I liked the death from above build for PVE

[gilded ferry]

thats why i hate crit

[empty bobcat]

which addon was it? wod?

or legion

[plush roost]

Also think atrophic should just be a reverse motw

[swift tinsel]

I still want sword specialization as a class talent then blacklist us from skyfury

[plush roost]

1.5% damage increase 3% dr

[swift tinsel]

fixes nothing for other melee but that's a them problem

[peak ice]

Yea just any damage increase aura would be nice

What’s the dh one

3% Magic?

[plush roost]

3% magic

[swift tinsel]

and skyfury is the only raid buff that's "grants X stat and also does Y" isn't it

the rest are either flat stat buff or dmg taken by __

phys/magic/all

[peak ice]

Wouldn’t mind a crit focused one

Even if it was just like a flat crit damage increase

[swift tinsel]

I like the 3% crit 1.5% crit dmg/healing idea

[empty bobcat]

found it 🙂

[lilac stag]

It’s too simple and effective. Have to make it way more fucking convoluted for rogues.

[plush roost]

"Weve noticed some discussion about a certain classes raid buff recently and felt the need to do some touch ups. This has been a long standing issue that has become more prevalent as of late so we will be providing a nice touch up for those of you who feel unrequired.

Blessing of the Bronze: now additionally makes your spell casts 10% faster

Hopefully this ends the raid buff discussion"

[swift tinsel]

true based real and actually

[swift tinsel]

I can see this happening and I'm fearful this will manifest it

[plush roost]

I am from da future

It has already been

[swift tinsel]

man who is singlehandedly responsible for our previous nerfs

I believe it

[plush roost]

It is snowing on mount fuji

[peak ice]

Idk if I see us getting a raid aura

[gilded ferry]

You know whats funny, two of the things you mentioned as a good thing for us, we have it the otherway around. We have a longer cast poison and we also have one poison that lowers the healing done by enemy

[swift tinsel]

I mean we aren't getting anything even though it was plastered all over RWF

[quaint breach]

raid aura kinda boring no

[swift tinsel]

what

depending on what they do it could make us unsittable

and instantly more attractive in pugs

[hollow quest]

[quaint breach]

game design wise haha

[peak ice]

Raid aura only boring if you like the bench

[swift tinsel]

so is every single raid buff

[quaint breach]

like flat % buffs etc. lazy

[swift tinsel]

its a button press

[hollow quest]

Ye just let us keep the atrophic give the rest to shaman

[swift tinsel]

that's how they work

[somber sun]

can we get to stack all poisons on the two other specs

like bro

[peak ice]

Does devourer have to push

I thought they just had it on

[gilded ferry]

i dont see any class that has it complaining

[swift tinsel]

poisons suck in general for non-assassination

they should be reworked/removed and made sin-only

unless they choose to give us a damage-taken debuff poison

[copper sparrow]

guys sub next patch gonna be great?

[swift tinsel]

similar to mystic touch/chaos brand

[peak ice]

Sure

[quaint breach]

ofc you rather have it than not, just saying it's boring game design wise. All auras should be remade into sth more fun but thats not gonna happe

[peak ice]

Ye so

Give us one for the time being

[gilded ferry]

cant see they changing this at all, its been here since classic. i think this is one of the reasons why slice and dice has survived so long, it comes and goes but its always here

[swift tinsel]

idk if that justification really holds up since they add and remove "essential" class/spec stuff

they completely reworked frost mage shatter

and that's been a staple forever

[peak ice]

Rip fire mage

[gilded ferry]

they probably will go back in that decision, like they did with other stuff in the past

[swift tinsel]

idk saying something needs to stay bc its been there for 20 years but seen next to zero iteration in the last 16 or so doesn't really make sense

[gilded ferry]

im not saying it needs to stay, im saying it probably wont happen

thats different

[hollow spear]

Quick question related to the ds sim in fuu's spreadsheet:

My understanding is that we're aiming for 1.100 haste (the bot needs less, so the profile has less I suppose?) in order to get the 2nd sectec into our blades.

The example in the sim shows that it consistently casts no second sectec during blades and sends it with another dance afterwards. Is that just an anomaly of the example iteration or is that something wrong with the apl?

[swift tinsel]

but the reason for it staying doesn't really track

[hollow spear]

Or is it only about the additional gcd in dance and sectec doesn't matter because it's ds?

[lilac stag]

How about we roll the dice every 2 minutes to randomly buff the raid with 1.2,3 or 4 secondary stats.

[peak ice]

Needs a negative in there

Just to slap us

[hollow quest]

Keep that to them outlaws

[azure thicket]

we can't give a raid buff that affects damage checks cause atrophic is already there

it'd be nice if we could give local raid buffs like

whichever party we're in gets a benefit

so A good for raid B encourages more than one rogue

like uh...i dunno movement speed and crit

[swift tinsel]

then get rid of atrophic

free us

[azure thicket]

kinda like uhh what signet of the priory kinda

did

last season

[swift tinsel]

also pretty sure they changed windfury for that exact reason

not wanting party-specific stuff

[azure thicket]

wasn't there for it what was it

[swift tinsel]

it was party-specific

[azure thicket]

windfury was better but localized

?

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure it was the same %

but was party-only

so you stacked party in raid with melee that benefit from it the most

and was also only enhancement

so you needed someone to play that

and it had a range

so it needed to be micromanaged

[azure thicket]

yeah but shamans are a huge chunk of the overall playerbase and they have lust

you could throw a rogue in with your casters

it's close but not quite the same thing imo

[swift tinsel]

yeah but not every guild had someone that can/wants to play enhancement

[azure thicket]

ye most not ce guilds also have trouble finding evokers for the same reason

[swift tinsel]

it wasn't class-wide

[azure thicket]

that uh movement speed buff was a game changer on fractillus for example

[swift tinsel]

keep in mind very few guilds relative to the whole that raid are CE

same with aotc

[umbral ocean]

resto has wf totem or had it in tbc anyways. idk when it started/ended if it ever did but my current tbc sham has wf totem for grp

[azure thicket]

something about greed i dunno

rogues giving party/raid effects is kind of spooky

[upbeat cradle]

We used to give %crit with Honor among Thieves in WotLK i think ?

[swift tinsel]

why?

[upbeat cradle]

Oh wait no that was feral

[swift tinsel]

rogue previously had crit buff, so did feral

leader of the pack iirc

[azure thicket]

yeah there was also hunger for blood which increased damage taken while a bleed was active

we're kind of an outward facing class we're affecting stuff we're fighting

warrior has a bunch of shouts but it's lore correct

[swift tinsel]

lol lore

[azure thicket]

rogue is literally let's ambush thrall at his farm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umAgdVTBae0

[sweet creek]

i like the idea of rogue getting a raid buff that increases damage taken by the boss by 30% and we call it a day

[upbeat cradle]

I mean I can shout too. Don't need to be a warrior for that

[swift tinsel]

so why is it outlandish for rogue to get something that causes mobs to have 3% chance to be critically struck

seems right up their alley

[sweet creek]

it's not, blizz isnt brave enough