subtlety

[tepid trellis]

yes

[empty bobcat]

we still gonna be playing cloud cover?

[tepid trellis]

we played them before the patch

and we will play them after

[tribal blade]

i got like a 78% parse on heroic lura because my strike had a horrendously low crit rate

[manic ice]

wait, are ppl happy now? wasnt the world burning 1hr ago

[alpine wraith]

cloud cover might be a thing on some places not everywhere

[bronze turret]

Unless head math is way off, then yes for sure

[short radish]

some people are happy, some people are sad, some people are dooming

average sub discord moment

all we know is mafic is 100% happy

[empty bobcat]

I mean how is 7% bad?

[hushed roost]

imagine it was 8

[alpine wraith]

the nerfs on the talent are heavy

[short radish]

it's not

[tribal blade]

it is not a flat 7%

[tepid trellis]

7% aura plus nerf to cloud

[tribal blade]

it is only a flat 7% for DS

[alpine wraith]

but t is just a thing that we will have less burst but more dps

[hushed roost]

burst damage is sick though

[alpine wraith]

that DS is what im scared about

[short radish]

there are multiple components here and the people who are dooming are dooming over either

• burst damage nerf
• oh no i have to recraft everything for 0.2% dps gain
• we might have to play DS again

[alpine wraith]

if you want burst you might just go DS and snap apexes

[hushed roost]

its actually so valuable in prog

[bronze turret]

Remember that cloud cover was 6% better than 10% no scruples. They buffed it by 20% and nerfed cloud cover by like 3-4%. So cloud cover should still be better

[alpine wraith]

instead of trickster and cloud

[tepid trellis]

its also just hard to tell cuz right now you spec rotten and PE for even more crit dmg on strike, but you would go back to finality atleast

[short radish]

is it? arguarbly its only good for birb

[tepid trellis]

so the dmg breakdown shifts

[bronze turret]

True

[short radish]

saladbar isnt prog anymore

[tepid trellis]

so to actually pinpoint the napkin is hard

[short radish]

and idk how much its worth on lura

[alpine wraith]

we might keep PE but no premed is ded i think

[bronze turret]

Very hard

[meager coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/its-alll-so-tiresome-tired-gif-14029153

[hushed roost]

im in a mid tier guild on crown, on a good pull its like up there with shadow priest in p1

[bronze turret]

Extremely rough estimate

[idle birch]

aint sub supposed to be the burst spec, thus not playing it as such would just grief the purpose u are designed to do. If u want sustain play other specs. Gear and talent ur sub rogue to burst.

[tribal blade]

but also mega egg dmg not as required anymore now that egg phase +10 secs

[alpine wraith]

yea in rough terms it is always overall buff but les burst

[tepid trellis]

dont think anything about premed changes, if anything it should sim better for people now that strike does less dmg

[frosty sinew]

with bird nerfs burst means fuck all now

[tepid trellis]

since it wont block the strike clones

[frosty sinew]

unlucky

[tepid trellis]

or well it will still block them

but they wont do as much of your dmg

[short radish]

i mean yeah i guess, and I know you said prog but our sub burst it's also inconsistent burst which is the opposite of what you want for p1 crown

[hushed roost]

yeah also true

[peak ice]

Premed also just feels better

[short radish]

surely birb dies this sunday so i dont have to reroll to whatever jank min max tech gets cooked up for next week

[hushed roost]

were you planning on outlaw

or just doing sub

lol

[frosty sinew]

you gain 20 seconds of egg damage next week

with birb changes

kinda crazy

[short radish]

burst is only really meaningful in "needing to push at certain point" or "amp phase"

[peak ice]

Is that on all difficulties?

[short radish]

so yeah i guess crown has amp

[tepid trellis]

techincally so does Lura

[short radish]

i will only play outlaw if there is a gun to my head

i may have also spent 30 mins at the target dummies this morning practicing outlaw before those notes came out

[meager coyote]

Idk feels like this should be the melee burst spec, they gave it back to us for like a week just to take it lol

[frosty sinew]

as someone on lura there was 0 world i was playing outlaw even if it was better

[tribal blade]

sounded like making the egg check was tight so warranted

[frosty sinew]

honestly

we almost killed it with our balance druid dead the whole second egg

[short radish]

it was in tww, and it was great because the two final bosses had perfect profiles for sub

[frosty sinew]

like 0.1% or somethin

[vagrant sinew]

10s is crazy nerf

[kind edge]

imagine you was raised at your work by 7% in salary, but the prices go up 7% everywhere.

[frosty sinew]

and i trolled my cds so it easily coulda died

[vagrant sinew]

5 I would understand

[tepid trellis]

just think about this Lura p3 you do 2x dmg

[vagrant sinew]

10 just means you can 4heal and just chill

[honest basin]

I feel like this happens even when we get an objective buff

[tribal blade]

it's big yeah

[short radish]

yeah 10s is acutally insane

[tepid trellis]

and p4 is dmg amp too

infinite amps

[frosty sinew]

tbf the "hard" part of the fight isnt the egg damage to begin with

[short radish]

you either die a doomer or live long enough to turn into guy

[frosty sinew]

just actually makes it so first time you get through second p1 you will pretty much 100% kill it

[honest basin]

like they could have 10% aura and 10% for each individual ability and i feel like people would still doom

[honest basin]

oh god im gonna keep dooming

[vagrant sinew]

stealthis guild gonna kill beloren in their alt run next week

[frosty sinew]

as long as we aren't playing deathstalker

i'm happy

[short radish]

like these notes are so whatever in the greater scheme of things (except having to play DS)

[honest basin]

deathstalker suck

[frosty sinew]

(i have so much fucking crit please still be good)

[short radish]

oh no i need to recraft again

[tepid trellis]

highly likely

[frosty sinew]

wonder if it's worth reclearing beloren now

[tepid trellis]

nah

[frosty sinew]

or alleria for that matter

[tepid trellis]

dont need the loot

[alpine wraith]

i might have bad news

[deft moss]

@honest basin But they gave u a button for the marks to move! Wow 👌

[tepid trellis]

Lura is just a glorified live check

[frosty sinew]

don't say it ty i want to go to bed happy

[sour horizon]

My lazy ass focusing on m+ still rocking a ton of mastery, pays off again

[crystal atlas]

Are we probably going back to Haste/Mastery?

[alpine wraith]

we never fully left

[tribal blade]

having some crit will still be good

[frosty sinew]

honestly even before the changes

i had more crit than mastery

[tribal blade]

i had like ~28-29% crit before .5 patch

[mighty citrus]

Actually it was nice you could play all three specs with the high crit haste gear 😅

[alpine wraith]

yea crit is still good

[short radish]

the only thing my gear is changing is a singular ring

[outer orchid]

I agree

[frosty sinew]

ye i'll probably go back to nexus combo instead of pit ring + void

[proper temple]

Do we still take cloud cover after the nerf?

[frosty sinew]

which is a bit lame as i've spent 4 rerolls on pit and didnt get the ring or legs yet

but w/e

[tribal blade]

wait and see with sims

[meager coyote]

Rly glad I chose my vault for this version of the spec just for that item to possibly be vendor material in a week

https://tenor.com/view/its-alll-so-tiresome-tired-gif-14029153

[mighty citrus]

The cloud burst saved my spot on bird kill

[honest basin]

it only costs 1/5 of our energy too

so cheap!

[tribal blade]

you'll still be able to do good dmg with a higher crit build as sub

[honest basin]

wrong. crit is DEAD next week. you hear me?? DEAD.

[tribal blade]

oh mb mb

[honest basin]

lmao gottem

[deft moss]

It's all going into vers

[tribal blade]

/cry

[frosty sinew]

crit was already good in pure st before no?

[tribal blade]

🙂

[frosty sinew]

or am i misremembering

[honest basin]

remember the good ol vers mastery days

[tribal blade]

yes

[frosty sinew]

idc about padding i am single target merchant this tier

[tribal blade]

every time i went too low in crit my sims would scream at me to get more

[frosty sinew]

raid too aids to pad

[honest basin]

back before blizzard made us stack haste

[outer orchid]

I'm coping with the fact that I have to be ethical this tier and not chase parse since I hate padding for parses

[frosty sinew]

boss damage is all that matters

me stab boss

[outer orchid]

Ok youre my father my bad for even speaking

[cosmic dust]

Damn bro is the rogue himself

[surreal orbit]

guys i just had a character arc for the ages

[outer orchid]

We got John rogue over here

[patent surge]

So

[surreal orbit]

stuck ou the chimaerus mythic pug for about 20 wipes

[frosty sinew]

we won't show overall damage numbers

[patent surge]

Are we back to that 1100haste build？

[frosty sinew]

well not that they bad but still

[surreal orbit]

topped damage, 89 parse and

[alpine wraith]

big

[surreal orbit]

hell yeah

got hella good reps in

[outer orchid]

Its ok
We all play rogue here
We know

[frosty sinew]

huge brink

[outer orchid]

Please god no

[frosty sinew]

and i hope to god we are not

cause i have no way of getting to that haste

lol

[outer orchid]

I do but please no

[patent surge]

Exactly my thought, please no

[outer orchid]

I dont want to play DS

[brisk onyx]

just do it

[frosty sinew]

no

ds bad

[alpine wraith]

i mean it will be like before like 3% better in st

[frosty sinew]

trickster will stay better surely

[alpine wraith]

and we still didnt play it remember

[frosty sinew]

well it won't be better for me so thank fuck

i don't want cosmos neck anyways

[short radish]

charrand did for a single week

[alpine wraith]

well someone might more now

[outer orchid]

He top parsed vor xdd

On ds

But I still wont play it

[alpine wraith]

it might be even better in laura because you can snap DN quite a bit

and in belo

uh

actually dont make me think

go away

[frosty sinew]

i will wake up tomorrow and there will be a pin saying we still play trickster

trust

[quartz prism]

Quick discord, tell me how to feel about the changes for sub m+

[meager coyote]

Think that's every one of us rn, so you're definitely competing in the correct bracket

[frosty sinew]

only boss i have a 100 parse on overall other than vanguards is chim

and that was actually from week 1 xd

this raid so shit

[brisk onyx]

Nobody wants to play with this cursed thing (until mark becomes a buff)

[alpine wraith]

i got a 98 on crown was rank 1 for a bit but before it locked i got beat

[outer orchid]

Make it a buff like BTE was

[frosty sinew]

i think i had rank 1 crown boss dam for a bit and before locked it got beat as well

but p1 adds are just so rng idk

not a fun fight

[outer orchid]

Going to bed and hopefully waking up to not a dumpster fire

Good luck friends

[marble comet]

How much % is the nerf

[frosty sinew]

think it's still an overall buff

but idk if the smart people have done the math yet

[foggy estuary]

Im i missing something? Are there any ptr notes i cant find?

[hazy lichen]

is deathstalker fun

[frosty sinew]

i like trickster

[foggy estuary]

No please dont tell me i have to play ds 🥲

[frosty sinew]

don't think i've played deathstalker for anything

[sharp sapphire]

we are losing the huge crits also? right?

[foggy estuary]

Where are the dooming inducing notes??

[alpine wraith]

there is no dooming just some dmg profle change and a bit of an overall buff

people might be annoyed because crit is not as good anymore tho

[short radish]

the amount of dooming people had when they had to recraft mastery to crit was insane

[sharp sapphire]

it would make more sense to make cloud cover 8+8 secs to keep it in line with unbuffed from the tier set shadowblades

[frosty sinew]

i didn't even recraft to crit lel

[short radish]

WHY ARE THEY TRIPLE DOWNING ON CLOUD COVER IN THE FIRST PLACE

JUST BAKE IT INTO SBLADES

WHAT HAPPENED TO PRUNING

[foggy estuary]

Where did u see the dam prof change tho?

[wild vine]

hopefully died in a ditch

somewhere

alone

helpless

[frosty sinew]

well cloud cover being nerfed lowers our burst damage

in blades

[alpine wraith]

if we dont talent cloud cover etc we just come back to finishers doing most of the dmg

we might still play it but it will be less bursty

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/venom-tom-hardy-screaming-gif-11035878

[frosty sinew]

i'll miss the like 60k variance on egg damage

[foggy estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/reee-pepe-frog-angry-angery-gif-18421495

[short radish]

i actually dont understand what they are trying to do with cloud cover

[frosty sinew]

with 0 gameplay change

[short radish]

why do they want this to be a thing

[stuck lance]

i mean atleast it gave trickster some visuals

[bronze turret]

Burst option

[short radish]

no but like

why cloud cover

why not just add all the bonuses to sblade

[stuck lance]

Flavor this is our first time having somethng cool from a hero talent enjoy lol

[bronze turret]

Because then it’s always active and you can take 12% crit on finishers too

[short radish]

but we play like it's always active anyway

well we did

idk it's like the stupid hunter NF ability in SL all over again

[sharp sapphire]

to choose between cloud cover or 10% crit

[bronze turret]

Yea well idk

[short radish]

where no one liked that gameplay

yet they keep bringing it back

[bronze turret]

12%

I am pretty sure crit talent is meant for aoe

And cloud cover st

[stuck lance]

how do you figure

[plush crescent]

what does the balancing shake out to be?

[steel zinc]

What % are the changes net nerf?

[tribal blade]

no shot it's a nerf

[frosty sinew]

20 % nerf

unplayable

please complain on forums

[fallow ingot]

Slow mode channel i beg.

[steel zinc]

You remove 8 seconds of our burst

[tribal blade]

7% aura buff to compensate

for a ~6% buff that cloud brought

[steel zinc]

It has with cloud cover tbh good flair

[bronze turret]

Because bp dmg leans into crit

[pale fog]

I am smooth brain in the maths department but CC change was 6% buff and if anything, 7% flat buff and 2% on scrupples will net you well ahead of pre 12.0.5 even if cloud cover changes turns out Big

[bronze turret]

And 12% crit all the time is a constant dmg talent

[meager coyote]

Say sike rn

[sour horizon]

just give me a glyph that farts a cloud every melee attack and ill forgive

[stuck lance]

but cloud cover even post nerf just gives us 8% more burst

[bronze turret]

No

People are reading it wrong

The nerf removed the crit dmg and dmg taken reduced portions

Not the 8% dmg stacking

[alpine wraith]

the burst was a combination of extra fazed and the crit thing with strike

[bronze turret]

So it’s still 24% for 12 sec

[alpine wraith]

we still have burst just lower

[hazy lichen]

do we still pump

[bronze turret]

Who knows

[alpine wraith]

dmg overall got a bit buffed likely

[fallow ingot]

Just play old build and thats it.

[drifting ether]

The 3x dr was nutty in m+ ngl

[hazy lichen]

is grass green

[alpine wraith]

but not by much

[stuck lance]

Trickster: Cloud Cover now causes Fazed to stack 1 additional time (was 2)

[bronze turret]

Outlaw

[stuck lance]

16% for 12 sec

[bronze turret]

Outlaw

Every hero talent is different depending on spec

[stuck lance]

ahh not all weird

[fallow ingot]

They cannot read lmaooo

[alpine wraith]

well they can just then understanding is the problem

[tribal blade]

i'm 99% sure they didn't change the stack amount for sub because we have 1/3rd of the uptime of cloud than outlaw

[stuck lance]

possibly

[tribal blade]

unless they typo'd

[stuck lance]

but then how does 24% on your burst not sound better then 12% crit chance for aoe

[tribal blade]

taht affects ST too

we cast finishers in ST

[stuck lance]

thats not my point he said cloud ST and crit aoe

[vale osprey]

Looks like next week I'm sending 3 coins into Xenas to get the mast/haste ring

[bronze turret]

Cus it’s 12 sec every 1.5 min. BP crit dmg talent with 12% crit all the time seems quite good

[stuck lance]

that would be sustain vs burst then not aoe vs ST right?

[bronze turret]

Yea

It is

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/sustain-gif-3787342337138749668

[bronze turret]

I guess it will depend

But you will swap talents with this as well

It’s hard to math it out

Premed back, rotten gone, finality 1/2 back

[stuck lance]

thank god for premed

[sour horizon]

ill be real, premed feels so nice, I hate not having it

[bronze turret]

I hope we keep PE and don’t swap to AA talent

But that might happen too

[stuck lance]

PE and AA?

[alpine wraith]

PE might stay with cloud cover

[bronze turret]

Ye

Not a big fan of autoattack talents

[stuck lance]

oh planned execution and warning signs?

[hazy lichen]

mfers just abbreviate anything in wow

like damn

[alpine wraith]

yea

[short radish]

i dont mind warning signs tbh

[sharp sapphire]

but I would make Cloud Cover something like 3+9 secs instead of 6+6. Remove some visual clutterness and have bigger uptime if the targets needs to move

[short radish]

the atk speed felt good for the rotation

[stuck lance]

should prolly keep abreviations consistent lol

[bronze turret]

Well

[short radish]

private equity and affirmative action 👍

[bronze turret]

AA is quite consistently auto attack and I forgot warning signs

[sour horizon]

like SS SS and SS

[short radish]

For the opener you should always cast SS on the boss. You don't need to press SS since SS will already teleport you behind. If there are 3 or more targets (2 with PP) you should cast SS over SS.

[meager coyote]

I'm gonna go now, looking forward to coming back in 16h and finding deathstalker in pins

[bronze turret]

I doubt they will solve the new cloud cover math in that time. Unless they can pull the data already

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/ricky-bobby-gif-3442424

[stuck lance]

yeah but you said PE and AA one being talent name and one being a general stat was confusing if u said crit vs AA or PE vs WS makes more sense XD

[tribal blade]

weren't all the SS in germany a while back

[bronze turret]

😮

[bronze turret]

Ye I get the confusion

[dusky yacht]

[alpine wraith]

it is because of ancient arts too

just call it apex 3 like me

[bronze turret]

Like you can prob delete 100% crit dmg from cloud cover in sims. But can you lower the duration to 12?

[alpine wraith]

problem solver

[brisk onyx]

I like pe too

[bronze turret]

Physical ed

[alpine wraith]

you can make it so you exit the cloud and it works to 10s duration

[atomic bobcat]

probably going to stack mastery again?

[alpine wraith]

then snap a 20% more thata one

[stuck lance]

didnt we always want atleast a little crit?

[bronze turret]

Sounds backwards. I know the 7%er is going to be easy to check

[dusky yacht]

Wait so at least we didn't lose 24% damage, it's just shorter duration for god knows whatever reason, but we gained 7% aura for god knows whatever reason

[bronze turret]

Lost 100% crit dmg on strike

[atomic bobcat]

ye crit as 3rd in agi > mast > crit > haste 18%

[desert oasis]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tribal blade]

you will be completely fine if you still run highish crit as sub

[stuck lance]

isnt it agi 18% haste then mast crit but once u get a good bit of mastery crit gets better too

[dusky yacht]

Wait what we lost 100% crit dmg on strike?

[bronze turret]

But yes, if someone said we will get a talent that’s gonna automatically give us 24% dmg for 12 sec during our biggest cd I would be quite happy

[stuck lance]

i have so much jewelery tyo adjust stats should be fine lol

[bronze turret]

Yes

[karmic harbor]

Subtlety

All damage increased by 7%. Does not affect PvP combat.
Trickster: Cloud Cover primary and secondary duration reduced to 6 seconds (was 10 seconds).
Trickster: No Scruples crit chance bonus increased to 12% (was 10%).
Trickster: Additional stacks of Fazed granted by Cloud Cover no longer increase the magnitude of secondary effects, such as the damage reduction from the Smoke talent.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1281275821075595374/6an3o7.gif

[dusky yacht]

Bro like what even are these changes, it's not even a buff

[bronze turret]

They fixed the bug that made cloud cover stack dmg reduction and crit dmg talent x3

[stuck lance]

XD

[peak ice]

Are we still dooming

[atomic bobcat]

its a nerf , ide say around 3-4%

[bronze turret]

Idk, people fucking move in circles. It’s still a buff

[tribal blade]

maybe i'm stupid, but sub got cloud cover change and it was 6% buff, then they bug fixed it and gave a 7% aura buff to compensate

i fail to see how it's a nerf

[dusky yacht]

How is this a buff our buffed shadowstrike just got thrown out the window

[stuck lance]

7% dmg boost even if they entierly removed cloud cover its a net buff

[bronze turret]

Cloud cover didn’t go from 6% better than no scruples to 0% because of the duration and crit dmg nerf. And then add 7% flat dmg buff on top

[bronze turret]

Because the crit dmg on strike wasn’t 100% of cloud cover value?

[karmic harbor]

looks like a buff to me

we'll wait for the nerds to get on i guess

[tribal blade]

it's numerically impossible to be a nerf

[stuck lance]

and scruples got a buff to + the 7% so if we stop running cover it should still be a buff

[keen dome]

I wonder if the change to duration is because of the 10+10 only making sense during this season tier set, and they wanted to make it consistent for the future.

[stuck lance]

unless they bug something but that never happens to rogue

[tribal blade]

well yeah but that can happen at any time

[bronze turret]

You think 16% (24% total) more flat dmg for 20 sec during blades is better or worse than 100% (150% total) crit damage on a builder?

[brisk onyx]

ss crit bonus was not the main source of the previous buff boost; you've all exaggerated it too much

[dusky yacht]

Bruh I just got home from a 12 hour nightshift and been reading this stuff for 2 mins calm down

[short radish]

go to sleep

[dusky yacht]

I'm just confused

[warm marlin]

it was most of it

[short radish]

dont worry

[dark echo]

how good is that Sub buff ?

[short radish]

the world is not ending

[bronze turret]

No

[short radish]

sub is pretty much no worse off than what we are now

[warm marlin]

the talent was predicted to be around a 1% gain before we knew the interaction

[bronze turret]

Predicted

[dusky yacht]

Eh you guys are right I'm being stupid

[bronze turret]

The crit dmg account for maybe 3-4% of the value

[dusky yacht]

I will wait for fuu to write a post about it and give me the happy %

At least they nerfed dev dh

[atomic bobcat]

might be even break even which is fine

[bronze turret]

But also, the crit dmg is simulated damage. It’s highly rng. So the value when you’ve been playing hasn’t been a straight 3-4% of cover

[tribal blade]

i think it's good to lose the crit dmg

because that variance was wild

so unpredictable

[warm marlin]

Yes simple math of gaining 16% damage in blades vs. having 10% crit on finishers

[dusky yacht]

This was so true tho

[bronze turret]

Fairs

[ebon tiger]

being lazy and not recrafting/regemming my shit for crit pays off

[dusky yacht]

Sometimes I'm god sometimes I'm tickling the boss

[bronze turret]

They did buff no scruples by 20% too

[keen dome]

Rotten had it's week of play, it can go back in the box now.

[brisk onyx]

putting that aside, the fact that you can continue to pick premed is fantastic news

[warm marlin]

ye i wasn't making any claims about if its a net buff or whatever

[tribal blade]

TRUE HUGE

[bronze turret]

But ye premed is back. Which is a net gain

[keen dome]

Neat

[warm marlin]

i am sadly probably not on sub anymore, at least for a bit

[dusky yacht]

I guess worst thing is I might have to recraft a bit again

But like who gives a shit

[short radish]

exactly

[bronze turret]

A lot of ppl

[short radish]

people care way too much about stats

[limpid sage]

Join me on enha

[tribal blade]

i think people are overestimating how much gear they'll have to change

[short radish]

bro are you like the only enhance player out there?

[warm marlin]

i do miss enh a bit

[limpid sage]

By next reset they’ll be 4th from bottom instead of 3rd

[warm marlin]

well i miss tww1 enh a lot

[bronze turret]

I can’t believe we’re back to treating secondary stat weight like fucking gospel again

[warm marlin]

but i am a dk now

[limpid sage]

Yes.

[bronze turret]

It’s like simmed stat weights all over again

Which they banned from raidbots for a reason

[short radish]

i don't even know how this happened. it barely changed in 12.0.5

and its barely changing back now

[tribal blade]

haste breakpoints has done a number to people in here

[warm marlin]

a lot of the general wow community thinks stats are everything

[short radish]

acutally no i know what happened

sub became the popular rogue spec

[tribal blade]

this channel is literally 80% talking stat weights now lol

[short radish]

so all the casuals came in here

and all the casual andys think stats and bis lists are the most important thing to have

[bronze turret]

Fucking hate it. I get the haste breakpoints but arguing about crit or no crit is stupid

[tribal blade]

exactly

[short radish]

which is why we've seen a massive uptick about stat weights

[keen dome]

The only stat that matters is Speed.

[limpid sage]

real

[untold elk]

glorious day for the people who hated smoke bomb

[tribal blade]

1 time i forgot to change gear sets for a key and realized half way through and guess what, did almost identical dmg as i would have done with my proper setup

[verbal kelp]

is the recent tuning a buff or a nerf?

[keen dome]

But the fixation is wild. Just get the haste breakpoint. Job done, mission accomplished.

[limpid sage]

I tell my healer this as well when I invest into 6% more speed instead of 4% avoidance

[bronze turret]

If you want burst you will still play smoke bomb

[brisk onyx]

I took a quick look, and all I need to do is replace flask with Mastery. Many people are exaggerating the stats change. crit is already pretty good in ST, we don't even need any recrafting

[warm marlin]

are you staying rogue for wind chime?

i assume most are but

[tribal blade]

me too 😉

[short radish]

people asking "when do i press puzzlebox" is a better question than "what stats do i need"

[short radish]

yeah

only rogue

[keen dome]

never

[short radish]

i have a ret paladin but thats also same shit anyway

[dry flame]

its only gonna be the.... top 1 spec now, sad times for those suckers, amirite?

[short radish]

with 0 extra util

[dusky yacht]

Think you might be right, with mastery flask the actual change is a few % damage on finishers kek

[bronze turret]

Blizzard also changed cover to be invisible to everyone else. If the intent was to kill the talent they wouldn’t have

[dusky yacht]

Anything that brings them down lifts me up brother

[warm marlin]

they already told me to be ready to swap dk if we kept having issues with crystals and after tuning i cba swapping back to sub

im just gonna go dk

[short radish]

it's truly jover for us

[keen dome]

🫂

[warm marlin]

itll be a good transition into playing flex dps

[keen dome]

You'll blast

[limpid sage]

I’ve enjoyed playing diff specs a lot for once

[dusky yacht]

Wait they didn't fix cloud cover refreshing automatically did they?

[limpid sage]

Best season for alt gaming

[dusky yacht]

[dry flame]

only swap to DK if you wanna be usefull and enjoy the game, otherwise, don't recommend

[warm marlin]

my dk is already 280 and im playing it in keys atm

[bronze turret]

Sub should be more consistent with a flat dmg buff instead of 100% crit dmg on strike

[warm marlin]

class is busted as shit

[bronze turret]

Rejoice

[warm marlin]

i always love temp rerolling

new specs are fun

[bronze turret]

There’s only one spec in the game

[keen dome]

Also people can play Premed without feeling like they're hurting their damage from a 0.2% dif. Which is probably good for them. Consistency is nice, though.

[bronze turret]

Ye

[short radish]

yeah i honestly like this change

consistency is best

fuck high rolling

if i wanted to gamba i'd play enhance

[warm marlin]

objectively removing reliance on smoke bomb and crit damage is good

[tribal blade]

i despise rng dps

so much

[keen dome]

I'm curious what the actual buff / nerf balance is going to work out at but I am far too stupid to figure that out myself.

[warm marlin]

bring back vers mast and old cold blood

[tribal blade]

i don't play sub to rng my dps

[bronze turret]

The only time high rolling was fun was with sylv daggers

[warm marlin]

and old flag and symbols and rupture and

[keen dome]

okay let's not get too crazy, old cold blood.......

oh god he's going rogue

[warm marlin]

it was a guaranteed crit!

giga variance reduction

[valid jewel]

so sub is getting about a 2–3% buff with this patch, right?

[smoky bough]

So do I understand you guys correctly… as long as I have the haste cap it doesn’t matter if I have crit or mastery stats?

[short radish]

yes

[tribal blade]

he makes a good point

[keen dome]

but it was an annoying button, you've gotta consider that!

[short radish]

holy shit rejoice

[tribal blade]

write that down

[bronze turret]

It’s a minor diff. As people say the flask you use is probably more important

[short radish]

someone understands

thank you simon

[keen dome]

yes

[short radish]

like arguarbly you dont want 100% crit and 0% mast and vice versa

but if youre 40/60 or 60/40

it doesnt matter

[tribal blade]

how you play will have a bigger impact than a few % diff between crit and mast

[sour horizon]

understood, getting all vers

[bronze turret]

Give back old cold blood

[short radish]

based tww sub enjoyer

[keen dome]

You understand it perfectly. Crit is more ST (albeit with a lot more variance, and also less so with the coming tuning), Mastery is more AoE but also more damage in general. Just get both.

[quaint glen]

on st it does i think a lot

[keen dome]

it doesn't

[verbal kelp]

is the recenut tuning a buff or a nerf?

[smoky bough]

I’ve been playing assa with crit haste gear… I can just adjust some haste and be fine without recrafting everything?

[bronze turret]

Old cold blood, 30 sec vanish cdr

[short radish]

i mean yeah maybe if they had 100% mastery and 0 crit

but to get that is very very hard

and i'd be impressed if they somehow did have that

[keen dome]

Probably. I imagine a flask will cover anything as long as you are the haste breakpoint

[jagged hamlet]

crit SHOULD be RNG protection and mastery should reward good play and punish suboptimal

[tribal blade]

you see it all the time where someone has suboptimal stats and still blasts and does top dmg

[bronze turret]

Crit will never ever be rng protection

[keen dome]

Being over it is fine, haste isn't a dead stat. It just doesn't have the kind of value you'd want once you get over 700~ versus getting more crit/mast.

[bronze turret]

If you invest a lot in crit and you do a pull with bad rng. You’re even more fucked than if you would just full sent everything into vers

[fair stump]

When they mention that the extra stacks don't increase secondary effects, does that include the +damage done and the +crit dmg?

[sour horizon]

heard it here boys

[sullen hare]

Wait a minute what's this talk of premed can we take it again or is it still a bugged talent and a DPS loss?

[sour horizon]

ALL VERS IS BACK!

[keen dome]

Critting is just 50/50, no matter the stat, remember.

[bronze turret]

Either you crit..

[tribal blade]

i learn so much about math in this channel

[jagged hamlet]

yeah i get that thats why i said in all caps "SHOULD" lol

[bronze turret]

Honestly I hate crit as a stat

[dusky yacht]

I remember your math being bad

[tribal blade]

oh it IS bad

very bad

horrendously bad

[dusky yacht]

Don't worry apparently mine after night shift is also bad

[tribal blade]

lol dw

you won't come close to how bad mine is

[dire forum]

considering they nerf mages, dh's and augm, we are climbin the ladder boys

[short radish]

we are not

[dusky yacht]

Wait so the nerfs to fazed stacks are only for outlaw right?

[rain stratus]

We ain’t climbing shit

[fair stump]

Bump

[tribal blade]

likely whatever buffs we have will not move the needle significantly

[vale osprey]

Good way to get me to play Law/assa in raid this tier

[bronze turret]

Crit dmg and dmg reduction

[tribal blade]

unless we play DS i guess

[keen dome]

It was getting this x3

[tribal blade]

are we vers maxxing again

[bronze turret]

Cover was only meant to buff the % dmg from fazed

[fair stump]

So we are only getting the 24% increased dmg?

[dusky yacht]

Is the change to trickster fazed stacking also on sub?

[bronze turret]

No

[dusky yacht]

Right oof

[bronze turret]

Outlaw has way more uptime on cover. Probably why it’s different

[tribal blade]

outlaw had like ~60% uptime on cloud

which is bonkers

[dusky yacht]

No wonder people said they were cooking

[tribal blade]

yeah it was a huge buff to them

[bronze turret]

I mean it was a 16% buff right

So ye

[tribal blade]

some stupid number yeah

[dry flame]

please no, i already spent all my crests and bonus rolls on crit gear and shit

[dusky yacht]

[raw pebble]

Stop spreading the panic!

[dry flame]

if that actually happens, im legit done with the season

[bronze turret]

Are you going to change all your crit to mastery for 400 dps

[vale osprey]

Genuinely why I said if we're Vers staking I straight up do not have gear and will just play assa/law

[short radish]

yeah secret build that we've been keeping down low

all the chinese rogues are doing it

[broken fable]

hi guys, i finally got Guidon this week, do u still wanna get around 700 haste or is enough just to have some and use Guidon?

[vale osprey]

I'm hoping we're just back to mastery stacking

[dusky yacht]

700

[keen dome]

Yes - you want 700~ with oils with guidon.

[tribal blade]

IM SO READY FOR IT

[keen dome]

You can have 674 without oils. But you want 700 for the comfy zone of gcd's in dance with guidon.

[dusky yacht]

Fastest leg catalyst of my life then

And belt

[vale osprey]

And cloak

[tribal blade]

i'm already rocking 289 vers/mast legs because my vault hated me 1 week

[vale osprey]

It's just jewellery that will fuck us

[dusky yacht]

Ahead of the Curve

[bronze turret]

Just get the neck from crown and be quiet

[dry flame]

wouldn't Seat pants still be bis then?

[vale osprey]

Rogues would go from hating Seat to loving it

[sour horizon]

seat still sucks coz so much filler loot drops

[keen dome]

seat sucks because peoples brains break doing it

[vale osprey]

Isn't it a bunch of haste Vers pieces tho?

[hazy lichen]

are we using reroll on myth gaze

[bronze turret]

Isn’t seat super easy

Timer wise

[fair stump]

Either that or mythic guidon

I think active trinket takes prio?

[tribal blade]

if you already have myth dagger then likely yes

[keen dome]

Insanely

[dusky yacht]

We're going to say catalyst legs is the play whether you want to or not bro

[keen dome]

BUT pugs, man. PUGS.

I've seen things in it. Stuff on the final boss, stuff with the circle trash

I dunno, it does something to people

[bronze turret]

I have only had issues with pugs doing the spread boss

[sour horizon]

seat is pretty chill tbh, its just a boatload of gear drops so rolling is pretty wasteful

[hazy lichen]

is it worth using on alleria

if i already have hero gaze

or should ig et myth gaze

[vale osprey]

Can we stop Vers dooming I don't wanna think about it

[dusky yacht]

You should have a versatile mind

[broken fable]

is it okay to be with 686 haste with all buffs up "also using haste falsk" or do i need to get to the 700+ exactly?

[sour horizon]

more vers will help you tank the dooming

[vale osprey]

No?

[bronze turret]

I wonder if the 12 sec cover window means you will want to maximize that window. Aka no guidon cus you can’t get 2 sec tech anyway

[vale osprey]

No you will literally do ZERO damage !!!! 16 less haste???? Are YOU CRAZY
?????

[bronze turret]

And get like a big dmg trinket for the opener instead

[broken fable]

bro i dont know the break points

thats why i ask

[sour horizon]

680-700ish iirc

[lusty epoch]

if you notice that you don't get that last gcd off in dance, then you need a little more haste

[vale osprey]

684 is technically a breakpoint but the advice used to be 650-700, 700 is safest atm

[lusty epoch]

if not you're good

[vale osprey]

We don't have "hard" breakpoints though

[celest spruce]

700 total, including oils right

[short radish]

yeah

[vale osprey]

Yes

[short radish]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Techniques cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dances duration only gets increased by Haste Rating from gear or consumables. When using an on-use haste trinket, make sure to use it a bit before Shadow Dance to get the extended duration.
The recommended ~700 haste gives you two additional globals in Shadow Dance and Guidon will grant one extra on top of that.

[dusky yacht]

I'm at 687 and I want 700 because I get anxiety at the end of blades

[short radish]

i run 710

[vale osprey]

I'm also just under 700 ATM, upgrading my pieces next week gets me just over

[dry flame]

you can never be too sure

[sour horizon]

get that vers up

[short radish]

people also care too much about that exact 700 number

[dusky yacht]

I see you're playing it a li'l safe there

[dire forum]

versa? what is that remind me please. jk

[short radish]

like anything over 684 is just "more QoL"

if youre 700 or 705 or 698

who cares

[dusky yacht]

2% versa? Literally wrecked your gear m8

[short radish]

if youre 700 and still noticing youre not getting your sectech in

[dusky yacht]

[short radish]

then get a bit more haste

[dire forum]

whats the minimum versa

[dusky yacht]

67%

[dire forum]

what,

[dusky yacht]

[sour horizon]

this guy doesnt have 67% vers?!

[gilded ferry]

i think i need to regear

[dusky yacht]

Imagine, he probably isn't even parsing 100 and chinese

[tribal blade]

agreed on your stat weights

[lusty epoch]

delete character, this one is beyond saving

[dusky yacht]

[empty bobcat]

so we want even more crit now?

[wild vine]

1050+ crit

definitely

[sour horizon]

living up to your name 👍

[dusky yacht]

Aight channel is cooked time to get ready for bed

[gilded ferry]

just recraft some stuff and ill be golden

[empty bobcat]

so 720 is too much?

[short radish]

no

if you have 720

youre fine

[empty bobcat]

Im like 31/20/60 % all buffed

[vale osprey]

I have like 1.3k crit with crit flask but now I'm a crit hater !!!

[short radish]

oh wait sorry wrong one

[gilded ferry]

this neck is fire though

[vale osprey]

Friendship with crit ended now mastery best friend!!!

[dusky yacht]

Got you feeling like a novice

[vale osprey]

I don't want to swap all my cute myth pieces for hero pieces 😤

[sour horizon]

BRING IT BACK

[tribal blade]

MY MEME

[dusky yacht]

OUR MEME*

[onyx trail]

Can anyone actually seriously answer what stats we should be running? Or do we not have an anwser yet

[dusky yacht]

https://giphy.com/gifs/communism-socialism-marxism-ZAzUHJKNNVhktFDJYp

[tribal blade]

i'm actually legit the person who started this one haha

[dusky yacht]

Now it belongs to the State of Dogue

[tribal blade]

i love the fact it's still around

[dusky yacht]

[gilded ferry]

No one knows anything for sure now

we need to wait for sims

[tribal blade]

owned

[tribal blade]

owned

i'm getting double owned in here

[sharp sapphire]

Is there a PTR that we can test the new Cloud Cover? I wonder if 3 stack fazed is still overwritten with 1 stack fazed after cloud cover expires

[tribal blade]

don't think so no

[sour horizon]

its live in like 4 days

[still quartz]

369*+

[empty anchor]

yo real talk how big are the buffs?

[tribal blade]

wouldn't worry too much, you can just go back to using the same build as before .5 patch and still be doing slightly more than with OP cloud cover

[torpid snow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusky yacht]

I'm sure fuu will math for us before the patch

Until then, we remain ignorant confidently

[sullen hare]

https://tenor.com/view/yas-queen-finger-snap-gif-9873002

[hollow spear]

He's in a discord call with Eleem to cook up some nightmarish ds apl

[karmic harbor]

i actually pay them to not come up with any ds theorycrafting

[hollow spear]

Ds is now 4.7% ahead pin inbound

[sullen hare]

I still think it's a shame fuu never pinned it in the beta sub channel but it'll be they're happy and waiting for us when the next expansion comes

[safe kindle]

is this with the upcoming tuning or?

[gilded ferry]

no

[tribal blade]

HELL yeah

[sour horizon]

never forget

[sullen hare]

It was a top tier meme

I might have the whole thing somewhere

[tribal blade]

that guy's post was truly a post of all time

[tribal blade]

i keep getting owned by AI slop

[sour horizon]

🙁

[neon frigate]

the next class class tuning, is that a buff or debuff??

[sullen hare]

I couldn't find it but I did find this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1414621347853762560/image.png?ex=69f6b58b&is=69f5640b&hm=ecfbdced865008d437ed605f2080f2ea3ac6787a83eae62f86475ee9cc6322f8&

[karmic harbor]

it's approximately a 25% debuff

[sour horizon]

I cant even remember the full post it was that wild

[karmic harbor]

probably a buff, wait 1 day and there'll be more info

[tribal blade]

i don't remember either, but it was so egregiously wrong i wrote a comment replying to him that got deleted by a mod

[sour horizon]

dude straight up got thanos snapped

[tribal blade]

was also an incredibly weird and difficult read too lol

[vale osprey]

Rogue discord mf when there are sub notes

"Yo Fuu what time your alarm set for my boi wake up"

[tribal blade]

which everyone surmised it must have been written with the help of AI

[karmic harbor]

can you believe it's 9am and fuu still isn't awake

[peak ice]

https://tenor.com/view/community-gif-23728528

[karmic harbor]

what do we pay him for

[sullen hare]

Fuu probably having a real genuine German breakfast. Something like breakfast cereal

[sour horizon]

it did have weird early AI jank vibe

[peak ice]

Coming back to the channel like this

Bruh I just fuckn crafted like a bunch of crit flasks

Fuk

[sullen hare]

Well that's what happens when we get a flat tuning pass that fixes exactly none of our problems like a deadbeat mom giving her kid a tramadol so it'll shut up and stop bothering her

[short radish]

normally i don't value comments on reddit much but this is 10/10

[lilac stag]

Fuu having Frühstück

[sour horizon]

lol

[sullen hare]

Fuustück 🤔

[tribal blade]

mages are mortal again and suddenly it's the apocolypse

[lilac stag]

Eleem just gave up

[short radish]

the amount of crying mages are doing on paladins is insane

[dry flame]

i was so happy for a moment that all 3 specs ran crit

[short radish]

OH NO I DIE IF A SINGLE HAMMER TOUCHES ME

yeah no fucking shit

[tribal blade]

LOL

[sour horizon]

its how they make their water

[tribal blade]

you and everyone else

welcome to reality

[desert whale]

Magical circle of buffing and nerfing

[tribal blade]

this is actually a top tier joke

[short radish]

this fuels me

[vale osprey]

It's 10 for him even!! (I think?)

[golden plume]

Let me get this straight: they gave us a terrible talent in the form of smoke, which came with a copy-paste of code from another ability and that’s why it ended up costing 30 energy. On top of that, it was covering all ground mechanics (apparently whoever tweaks rogues doesn’t play the game at all). Then they “fix” that smoke so it at least doesn’t bother the rest of our team in dungeons (even if it still screws us over by covering everything lol), and now they NERF it?

[short radish]

yes

[tribal blade]

i bet you mages aren't even that squishy in the grand scheme of things

[peak ice]

They got like 2 shields and ice cold

[tribal blade]

they just absolutely suck at managing defensives after having an unlimited amount

[peak ice]

And rewind time

They just fuckn refuse to use it

[tribal blade]

i'm betting they just have no idea how to actually plan defensives

[peak ice]

Any defensive would stop the hand roll across the keyboard

[short radish]

i mean i'll grant them their passive defensives are pretty shit

[limpid sage]

ye very

enjoying ww monk a lot rn

[sour horizon]

in tww they basically had a defensive at all times

[short radish]

but if you throw in all their active defences

[tribal blade]

arcane i will submit is way less tanky than frost and fire though

[short radish]

theyre more than fine

they just dont press anything active

[tribal blade]

YUP

[limpid sage]

it’s only 266 tho and doesn’t get invited to 10s xd

[peak ice]

Ice cold is like 80% damage reduction?

[rustic mortar]

So Are wie getting a buff or is it +-0?

[vale osprey]

You're the first to ask, so we're not sure and will start looking into it 😊

[tribal blade]

it's a big DR yeah

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=414658/ice-cold

[karmic harbor]

we ran the numbers, they came back inconclusive. will get back to you agent.

[vocal pulsar]

unclear atm, but best bet: go back to talents before the cloud cover change. wait till eleem and fu have cooked^^

[tribal blade]

feels a little cheap making fun of mages when we have feint, but they deserve it

[karmic harbor]

why the fuck does the white line on crown do so much damage btw

[peak ice]

The white line?

[karmic harbor]

you use to hit the mobs in p1

[peak ice]

Like between the 1/3s?

[short radish]

yeah perhaps don't do drugs while playing wow

[peak ice]

Oh the arrow

[karmic harbor]

you can't tell me how to live my life!

[hollow trench]

It’s actually silver

[karmic harbor]

it doesnt activate my threat sensors at all

white = good

[peak ice]

Its like 200k in a line isn’t it

[vocal pulsar]

reminds me of one of my windrunner m+ runs. at the lynx with the ice traps xD mate thougth that "inviting blue light" was dmg buff 🤡

[peak ice]

Definitely hurts when someone pulls it into you

[karmic harbor]

hits me for like 300k

but i must be bad and standing in puddles maybe

[raw frost]

pff

why they reduced the duration to 12 sec of cloud cover 😄

yikes

https://tenor.com/view/look-how-they-massacred-my-boy-meme-massacre-kill-wrecked-gif-14452160

[tribal blade]

the duration reduction for sub is kinda cringe

[shadow lance]

AND the fazed stacking

[tribal blade]

bit weird that it doesn't cover blades fully

[raw frost]

fazed dmg stacking is there ;d

[native kernel]

Do changes affect talents?

[raw frost]

only dmg reduction

but 8 sec less duration is huge ;D

[peak ice]

“We’ve reduced blades time to match cloud cover”

[shadow lance]

Oh, it's only for ol

[raw frost]

i mean 7 % dps compensates a lot but its weird not being able to use full duration ofshadow blades

[tribal blade]

don't even speak those words

blizz will hear

[shadow lance]

If blades goes to 40% damages amp, why not

[hidden wasp]

overall its a nice buff right?

[tribal blade]

should be a buff overall yeah

[peak ice]

Maybe

[abstract cosmos]

so we probs swapping cloud cover out im guessing

[rustic mortar]

Question regarding that haste trinket, why isnt it possible to macro that with Like sd Blade sectec together ? Is sd snapshotting haste?

[hidden wasp]

Takes a second or so for the haste to register before SD or something

[rustic mortar]

I heared rumors that u want to trinket before gling into CDs Not pair it

Getting

So sd is snapshotting the haste value and spagetthi Code needs time :D?

[tribal blade]

yes dance takes up to 1 second to update haste because of server tick

so you want to cast guidon at least 1 second before dance

[shy ermine]

Are we swapping to deathstalker though

[tribal blade]

could be tbh, who knows

[shy ermine]

Cloud cover in the bin

[glacial stag]

I dont believe so cloud cover still looks omega strong even with the nerf

like for outlaws i get it

[tribal blade]

depends on what kind of impact the changes to trickster have

[shy ermine]

We don’t get the generator crit dmg or buff on 2nd sec tec

[glacial stag]

But we dont lose the 3rd stack on sub

[tribal blade]

we don't yeah but cloud is not nearly as strong as before

[shy ermine]

Why would they change it to 2 stacks for outlaw only

[tribal blade]

only sims will tell

[tribal blade]

because outlaw has x3 the uptime of cloud than sub

that's what i think

[glacial stag]

yeah they get it way more than us

[shy ermine]

Yeah but why is the core function different, makes no sense to me

[glacial stag]

since theyre CDR class

[tribal blade]

it's the reason why cloud was such a massive dps increase for outlaw

if they nerfed cloud to stack only to 2 for sub too

i'm p sure it would be a dead talent

[shy ermine]

I think it’s dead anyway

[tribal blade]

hard to say

[shy ermine]

Additional fazed stacks don’t grant bonuses like damage reduction anymore

Surely that also means crit damage

[abstract cosmos]

also with outlaw they have prep which resets cloud cover to they basically have a huge window gap of dmg

compared to sub

[cursive tundra]

okay but am I going to have to redo all my gear again?

i am so pissed off at these changes

god forbid rogue should be invitable for more than a week in a season

[tribal blade]

you can probably just swap your flask back to mast

and you'll be chilling

swap out some gems too

[abstract cosmos]

or change ur rings and recract

its rlly not a big deal

to swap out crit

[shy ermine]

Yeah I didn’t change my gear anyway other than neck, just changed to crit flask

[fallow nimbus]

So my mythic haste/mastery ring is back in business

[shy ermine]

Although I would like to undo alleria boots catalyst

[tribal blade]

speaking of stats i might start dropping some crit for mast beyond what i was planning so i can have less variance

[abstract cosmos]

i mean my stats are around 36 crit to 49 mastery so just gotta change craft and rings and im good

[hidden wasp]

So mastery>crit again

[abstract cosmos]

maybe

we gotta wait

[hidden wasp]

Do you think we still run the eagle ring enchant?

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[abstract cosmos]

yea

[tribal blade]

it's very strong yeah

[abstract cosmos]

its still the best echant

[tribal blade]

always has been

[fallow nimbus]

2% crit dmg

[tribal blade]

iirc 1 of those is like 1.5%?

[hazy breach]

We ran it before when it was 1.25%

[tribal blade]

so 2 is 3% or something

[fallow ingot]

Its buffed its 2 or 2.25 since .5

[hazy breach]

2

[tribal blade]

oh i didn't even realize they buffed it

[hazy breach]

Presumably because they couldnt find a way to have it show enough decimals in the tooltip

[tribal blade]

LOL true

[sour horizon]

yeah coz it just said 1% on both quality... so they buffed it to 2% haha

[tribal blade]

that's comedy gold

[abstract cosmos]

PREMED IS BACK BABY FINALLY

[tribal blade]

it honestly never went away

[shy ermine]

It never left

[tribal blade]

you could still talent it for barely a dps diff

[abstract cosmos]

for me its a 1.5% loss

[tribal blade]

fair enough

yeah with more crit it became a bigger loss

[shy ermine]

Did you have 2k crit

1.5 is crazy

[sour horizon]

1.5%?! might aswell delete

[abstract cosmos]

ye

i do have alot of crit

but it will take me 2 secs to go back to all mastery coz had a feeling somethjng would change

but haste wont change right ?

[tribal blade]

nah

i'm honestly so hyped

[sour horizon]

until next expac, who knows!

[tribal blade]

no more insane strike crit variance

no more no premed

no more PE

[abstract cosmos]

YES

[sour horizon]

having premed again is all I want

[tribal blade]

i was still running premed on most bosses

[sour horizon]

its felt so off this week lol

[abstract cosmos]

i got a 93 on first boss with premed because i forgot to spec it out att

[tribal blade]

but then we'll have to play DS and it's back to suffering again lol

[abstract cosmos]

never tried DS before

sounds awful

[sour horizon]

my dumbass threw a couple 2point sectecs at the start of the week ngl lol

[raven plinth]

Is mastery becoming important again?

[tribal blade]

it's not as bad as it used to be

but everyone has a PTSD relationship with it

[abstract cosmos]

most likely

[shy ermine]

Haste will change if we take the 7% buff and play deathstalker

[abstract cosmos]

whats the problem with it

[tribal blade]

the main issue is it sticks you to 1 target and making target swapping annoying

[sour horizon]

feels yucky!

[shy ermine]

But now we have the mark swap button

[sour horizon]

YUCKY!

[tribal blade]

it also forces you to press evis in aoe liek every 3-4th finisher

[peak ice]

Feels clunky

[abstract cosmos]

must feel okay for raiding

?

[sour horizon]

YUCKY!!!

[tribal blade]

before you could only use darkest night with max CPs as well

[peak ice]

You dance on low combo n shit

[tribal blade]

which caused some incredibly cursed dances

[abstract cosmos]

i play assa in keys

so its all good

[sour horizon]

DS keeps me motivated to have a alt ready incase they gut trickster

[maiden oar]

i played outlaw in keys until the incident

[abstract cosmos]

not the incident

[peak ice]

“The incident”

lol

[sour horizon]

am I to sub to understand outlaw jokes? 🙁

[abstract cosmos]

someone will pull out all the numbers soon

we need the fuu to have a look at it

[tribal blade]

i feel liek we should also include stealthi and eleem and anyone else working on it too 😉

[hazy lichen]

whats best way to farm hero crests

[vale osprey]

Tag all of them they need more discord notifications

[light finch]

so burst window got fucked, damage overall should be 0% gain/loss and we pivot away from crit to haste/mastery again ?

[vale osprey]

Do 12s once your myth crests are full 🙃

[hazy lichen]

they give hero instead?

[peak ice]

Delves seem alright to me idk

[sour horizon]

boutiful delves are pretty quick when capped on myth for the week too

[vale osprey]

If you're capped on myth crests

[hazy lichen]

so doing 12s is the fastest way to farm hero crests really?

[maiden oar]

are there any delves u can solo really fast this patch

i was speedrunning tak rethan pheremone story on my alt for hero crests

[gray pond]

Only when myth crests are capped

[maiden oar]

and it was way higher crests/min than keys

but idk the meta now

[clear aspen]

Guys if my fish was drowning and i do grey parses in normal raid , would getting 5% more crit on my gear make me get 99s ?!?!?!

[drifting ether]

Do heroic bosses, faster than m+ for crests

[vale osprey]

Assuming you can do 12s and want to cap mythic crests anyway, why not? If not spam like 8s but that seems dire with the current state of pugs

[peak ice]

Yes

[clear aspen]

thx!

[sour horizon]

I think bountiful is quicker, since you can just run in and go

[raven nymph]

do the void strikes t5 4 challenges, thats 20 crests every 7-10 minutes

[sour horizon]

without finding a group, unless you have a tank mate

[maiden oar]

hard to get into keys w/o fully upgraded hero gear

bc people dont like u

so its a bit of a catch 22

[peak ice]

Under 10 shouldn’t be an issue

[sour horizon]

why would you say this 🙁

[maiden oar]

they dont like my alt with low ilvl

even if main io is good

maybe im projecting

[oblique spade]

even worse here, the crayon eaters can't discern between a low geared alt from high io main and just low geared player

[gray pond]

It’s 100% like that

[vale osprey]

It's bad in all pug keys under and including 12s atm

[peak ice]

Idk I feel like 10is the sweet spot for keys atm, get the vault done in and out real quick

[vale osprey]

Yesterday we managed to fail a MT key (the group disbanded) on an 11 because tank (278) was dying to final boss and our healer ignored every soak

[vale osprey]

It's often not quick ATM tho

There's like always some random 235 rat in there

[sour horizon]

thres still some good ones, but there is 100% more people doing 10s this season that still havent learnt to kick or mechanics

[peak ice]

Maybe I’ve just been lucky then

[vale osprey]

You have 🙃