subtlety

[grave parcel]

But isn't our damage higher now for those 12 seconds of cloud cover?

[lilac stag]

Actual sub rogue will do the most cringe shit ever for .15%. No one gonna not play the spec that’s 7% ahead because the gameplay blows.

[merry bloom]

no

[swift tinsel]

no

bc you lose 150% crit dmg

on strike

[grave parcel]

oh where is that change id ont see that

[swift tinsel]

while variable, was huge

[hazy lichen]

Its been ahead in ST before the changes and nobody was playing it

[tribal blade]

cloud cover is now pretty dogshit for sub

[merry bloom]

its cause u cant move mark

[swift tinsel]

this bit

affecting Surprising Strikes hero talent for trickster

[merry bloom]

if u can move mark DS becomes goated

[tribal blade]

well you. can now

easier

[hazy lichen]

true

[merry bloom]

in a sense just not enough

[obsidian cosmos]

it is funny couse blizzard take the sentence of "suck as the damage reduction from the smoke talent" just to cover the real nerf XD

[tribal blade]

they just introduced a button to make it easier to move

[grave parcel]

this is what had me confused i thought we were only lkosing damage reduction

[swift tinsel]

after making it impossible to move intentionally lmao

[tribal blade]

also you don't need to move it that often on the fights where you wanna play DS for the boss dmg

[hazy lichen]

can someone ss the ds change

[lilac stag]

It was not. Trickster was ahead. They were close before and zero aoe made trick better. Aoe doesn’t matter in raid at this point. We’re boss dmg parsers since 12.0.5

[hazy lichen]

from last

[swift tinsel]

nah that change is a fairly large nerf

bc of the crit thing

[hazy lichen]

i remember ds being ahead in st before cloud cover changes

[tribal blade]

i hate DS but seems like it'll be the move

[summer lynx]

I dont feel like these buffs are a buff with the nerfs to cloud cover...

[swift tinsel]

even more incentive not to play sub

bc ds sucks mega butts

[lilac stag]

It was slightly ahead. Not significantly ahead. Again aoe had mire impact then. It doesn’t now.

[swift tinsel]

apexing dumb shit

[tidal solstice]

so same as before 12.05
cloud cover
vs
7% aura, 2% no scruples, premad bac kon the menu

[tribal blade]

charrend and bingus were having a lot of fun playing DS sub before cloud change

so i have some hope

[hazy lichen]

side eye

[merry bloom]

i think scuples and premed is gonna be the new wave

[lucid jackal]

Ds for sub has more issues than just moving Mark

[swift tinsel]

I just fundamentally dislike the gameplay loop of ds sub with apex and everything

it feels very bad

[peak ice]

go play somethiung else

[swift tinsel]

that's literally what I'm doing lil buddy

[tidal solstice]

i love trickster and cdg with its swishy swishy aniumation all twirling around n shit

[lilac stag]

Moving snapping dn with sc it’s aids

[lucid jackal]

You send dances with darkest night, or sectec

[grave parcel]

so this seems like i a bug fix i didn't realize we were gaining 50% increased damage on our combo point generators for each stack of fazed

[lucid jackal]

It's very awkward

[peak ice]

then shut up

[lucid jackal]

?

[swift tinsel]

no thanks person I've never talked to before

[lilac stag]

Keep talking

[shut jay]

12.1 please, can we have honor among thieves back

[austere island]

why we so madge

[swift tinsel]

sending Surebud

ultimate ragebait

[grave parcel]

For mythic+ this doesn't really seem like a huge deal our overall is going to go up

[north garnet]

Rogue removed by 12.1

[lilac stag]

Outlaw players got our burst nerfed.

[north garnet]

confirmed

[tribal blade]

sub rogue channel in shambles after receiving overall buff 🙂

[swift tinsel]

ye cloud cover was more impactful in st/raid for sure

[hazy lichen]

actually?

[austere island]

[swift tinsel]

you'll lose some boss/prio dmg

[vagrant sinew]

you cant honestly believe that after being here for 10 years that cloud cover wasnt going to get gutted lol its a 1 point choice node

it should have never made it to live

[swift tinsel]

its the burst nerf part for me

[sonic raven]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[tribal blade]

that does blow yeah

[swift tinsel]

so ye it is nice to get an overall buff

[grave parcel]

it'll balance out on bosses cuz fights are long enough that over the course of the boss fight from all the dances we get it'll actually be a slight buff would be my guess, or just cancel out

[swift tinsel]

but the implications are not great

[lucid jackal]

Does nobody understand how ds plays like Shit

[swift tinsel]

bc DS pull ahead, burst is nerfed

neither are positives for the spec

[grave parcel]

thanks for being patient and helping me to understand why everyone was dooming tho, instead of laughing like people who swapped to MW

[lilac stag]

Yeah it’s so amazing it took us from middle of bottom 1/3 dps. to upper of middle of bottom 1/3 dps.

[hazy lichen]

do we know that ds is 100% gonna be more powerful than trickster

[swift tinsel]

the dopamine of big strike rotten crits will be missed

[grave parcel]

yea but that seems like it was a pretty big bug

[swift tinsel]

all good, blizz didn't do a great job of explaining just how the change impacted things by only mentioning the damage reduction portion

[chrome palm]

It requires you to think about timing your dance and secret a bit more and where the mark is

[swift tinsel]

because that was important, but the crit dmg % stacking was more of an impactful dmg aspect

[lucid jackal]

Am I the only person who's tried ds sub like

It's just ugly

[chrome palm]

Honestly a pleasant change from the mindless nothing gameplay of trickster on Lura

[lucid jackal]

No dance cdr talent is so ass

[tribal blade]

just gonna drop this here

[swift tinsel]

nah its straight shit soup ass butt

[chrome palm]

Secret cdr you mean?

[unreal ledge]

DS is terrible

[tribal blade]

nah i agree DS does feel poopy

[lilac stag]

Remember. This place lost its shit having to think for 5 seconds to do strike, vanish + strike, backstab as an opener.

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[worthy dirge]

How strong will the subtley get in the next patch?

[chrome palm]

Yeah that sucks but when you haste for it it’s the same as trick

[lucid jackal]

It isn't

It literally isn't lol

[chrome palm]

How different is it really

[lucid jackal]

You send without sectec

Like, very frequently

[chrome palm]

I was just sending 3 dances every other blades

Not that crazy

[lucid jackal]

You send dances with sectec, or darkest night

[lilac stag]

Storm + Dance macro back on the table

[merry bloom]

guys just play scruples and premed and just remember the 1 week of fun we had

[lucid jackal]

So you just don't sectec on every dance

[merry bloom]

LOL

[chrome palm]

I was just freestyling it a bit

[hazy lichen]

did they fix the premed bug

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[chrome palm]

I think sim is kinda fake

[summer lynx]

Why are we getting a nerf disguised as a buff, I dont get it. Who did we piss off? Did one of you fuck a devs wife?

[chrome palm]

It’s a buff so

[peak ice]

It seems like a small buff

[timid rose]

It was me

[north garnet]

5 of us who also play outlaw gamed too hard

[chrome palm]

👺 MY SPEC!! How dare u

[summer lynx]

I dont think its a buff with how badly they did cloud cover

[timid rose]

Oh wait... You meant a wow dev. NVM.

[merry bloom]

cough casualaddict

[timid rose]

Don't worry. I'll switch mains again and get sub buffed. It happened for ww and enhance

[peak ice]

I wonder if the dk discord is this bad atm

[lilac stag]

It’s not a bug. It’s a feature.

Working as intended. It’s just shit.

[tribal blade]

FUCK EM

[peak ice]

yeaaaaaaaaaaa

[spice escarp]

Its in slow mode

[hazy lichen]

why is it in bugs list

[peak ice]

lmao

[tribal blade]

he's memeing

[lilac stag]

To hope they actually look at it and change it to sht

so it’s not shit

[peak ice]

If unholy is nerfed, does that mean we top melee on aleria now?

[placid pivot]

So is outlaw AND sub cooked

Where’s the new sims

[lilac stag]

Come back in 8 hours

get ready for

ie reroll

[tribal blade]

what is even the dance usage for DS

if you're gonna have DN in X seconds stop sending finishers?

[vale nebula]

To me it looks like sub buffs 6% all around is prob going to scale well

[tribal blade]

also thank god they hit aug too

[peak ice]

Good

Why did warlock get such a buff

[graceful rock]

I’m p sure it’s a slap on the wrist for Aug

[tribal blade]

just for aff

nobody was playing it

[somber sun]

+++

[peak ice]

I see

[somber sun]

It's literally dead

[unreal ledge]

we have one, there are ~400

[peak ice]

mb thought it was like, the top warlock spec

[loud wharf]

Just got caught up in Otl channel have we done the math's for Sub? Outlaw looking roughly 6-7% nerf

[unreal ledge]

we think 1% buff

[tribal blade]

7% buff to DS

[unreal ledge]

ds has to be good but idk i hope not

[sharp bolt]

whats the speculation on no scruples vs cloud coverage?

[tribal blade]

no scruples must be the go to i imagine

[swift tinsel]

ye cc probs dead

[tribal blade]

cloud sucks dick now

[unreal ledge]

scruples and premed

[tribal blade]

you can play premed with cloud now

no more crit dmg

[lilac stag]

Not using scruples since you’re swapping to

[peak ice]

why does changing back to scruple effect premed?

[unreal ledge]

ya prolly have to ds

[swift tinsel]

bc premed blocked rotten strikes from proccing apex clones

[tribal blade]

losing the crit dmg means premed will be better now

[swift tinsel]

and with cloud cover they crit really hard

[sharp bolt]

Are there changes to Deathstalker for sub?

[shut jay]

its a good thing they hotfixed the visual for cloud cover

[swift tinsel]

right lmao

[lilac stag]

Yeah. 7% aura buff. No nerfs.

[unreal ledge]

ds just gets 7% buff from aura

[swift tinsel]

just in time to neuter it

I would be immensely surprised if cc saw play after this

which would be hilarious

introduce cool new talent, fix bugs for it, then shoot it in the face and no one plays it anymore

[tribal blade]

"here is a change to the talent you guys weren't playing but now it's too strong so we're gonna gut it so you don't play it anymore"

[sharp bolt]

i only see 7% aura buff, but it doesn't specify deathstalker

[peak ice]

yea but death got no nerfs

[swift tinsel]

perfect blizzard design philosophy

[graceful rock]

Yeah making a good talent and nuking it 2 weeks later is peak blizzard activity

[lilac stag]

Aura buff is rogue. Why would it specify a hero tree?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/abysmal-dogshit-absolute-cinema-a-guy-gif-7719966734167801090

[shut jay]

https://tenor.com/view/scorsese-absolute-cinema-meme-gif-9523375912274476782

[sharp bolt]

right so I'm curious how we are assessing that a 7% global damage buff makes 1 hero tree better than the other?

[hazy lichen]

the class overall wasnt insane why kill the talent

[lilac stag]

They fucking nuked Trickster.

[swift tinsel]

bc trickster was barely ahead before with the initial cloud cover, then cloud cover gets nerfed

[manic glen]

You know what, they couldn't fix the visual side of it just completely cucking you so they just decided to not make you pick it

[grizzled gust]

They could have just

[viscid barn]

1 second after giving us the talent too

[grizzled gust]

used the visuals from Valeera's little caltrops

[swift tinsel]

stop suggesting reasonable things

[grizzled gust]

genuinely like that visual effect was right there

[swift tinsel]

its clearly not in the blizzard playbook

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel faster way to level? Guess I’ll prep warrior for 12.1

[grizzled gust]

that's all it needed

[swift tinsel]

should be Calamitous tomorrow after reset iirc

otherwise Timeways come in 12.0.7

[hazy lichen]

are we gonna play ds in m+

[tribal blade]

prob not

[sharp bolt]

Right, thats why i was confused. i asked you if there were changes to DS and you said it was getting a 7% aura buff

[peak ice]

na

[swift tinsel]

ds is so cursed in aoe

[hushed roost]

The nice part is instead of playing ds we can just play dk

[livid frigate]

So is this nerf going to be much noticeable?

[shut jay]

i'm shocked we didn't get 2% buff to BP

[swift tinsel]

keys would be abysmal as ds

[lilac stag]

Is that the void delve? Just run rank 1?

[grizzled gust]

SO now that we've all recrafted our gear time to recraft it again?

[lilac stag]

We got a 7% buff to it

[swift tinsel]

yeah you pull the big automatons in the first area only plus the ones on the ridge up and off to the left then reset

always on rank 1

there should be a bunch of videos on the pull

[shut jay]

I require an additional exclusive 2% buff

[peak ice]

Is this change in the next weekly reset?

[swift tinsel]

as warrior you can obliterate them

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming fury is the better leveling spec but I’ll have to look

[north garnet]

Is ds going to be ahead?

please fuck no

[swift tinsel]

ye iirc I just did it as thane and blew everything up

[tribal blade]

FUCKING TRUE

[wary locust]

did we get a buff or nerf lol

[deft moss]

A berf

[swift tinsel]

maybe that's what I play lol

fury

[livid frigate]

I’m thinking the same thing aye

[deft moss]

We got a nuff

[swift tinsel]

although they're pretty flat too aren't they

[lofty lance]

trickster sub is gonna own in keys no?

[spice island]

So, if we're getting the cloud cover duration reduced, does that affect the "fit enough haste for a second SecTec during blades" priority? Like, cloud cover duration won't last long enough for the second ST right? Or is that mostly irrelevant?

[unreal ledge]

we arent going to run cloud cover anymore so we dont have to worry about it

[north garnet]

that was before cloud was even a thing

[spice island]

Oh okay

[livid frigate]

Is are we going to be doing less damage or the same ?

[north garnet]

you will still optimize fitting 2 sec tech into blades

[swift tinsel]

nah cloud cover didn't play into haste stuff

that was already a thing

[austere island]

kama sutra

[shut jay]

i bet if we all go back to no scruples, they'll nerf it back to 10%

[swift tinsel]

nah these are the changes we're getting til 12.1

[spice island]

I think someone above said ~1% dps increase

[deft moss]

Nah 1% nerf

[spice island]

Womp

[livid frigate]

So not a massive lose then

[dire anchor]

well, we lit regardless

[swift tinsel]

eh

[livid frigate]

Do we have do run different crafted gear then

[sharp bolt]

Only if the stat weights have changed

[peak ice]

crit worse right?

[livid frigate]

Oh okay no worries I guess I will see what happends when this comes out . Is it already out or in 12.1

[sharp bolt]

this tuesday

[livid frigate]

Okay thank you

[mental saffron]

Sub still keeps the 3 stack fazed while Outlaw gets 2?

[spice island]

Unless it changed again I thought people were stacking crit for single target and mastery for m+

[sharp bolt]

yah and that likely won't change, but the breakpoints might

[spice island]

Gotcha gotcha

[swift tinsel]

Breakpoints don’t change

You’re stacking less crit with cloud cover nerf

[peak ice]

cc nerf would mean u want less crit no?

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[sharp bolt]

thats what i was talking about. the DR for the stat weights

[swift tinsel]

You’re back to just getting 700-800 haste then whatever crit/mastery along with it

Or 1100 haste now that DS is gonna be the play

[grizzled gust]

haste haste haste!

[spice island]

Dang, I don't like DS lol

[swift tinsel]

It’s bad

[tranquil sorrel]

hewwo im probably the 184721986741th person asking but jsut saw the sub buffs, does this change our talents?

[upbeat sorrel]

Is it a buff

[swift tinsel]

Overall very very minor buff

[spice island]

I think we're going back to the other talent and dropping cloud, if I understood correctly

[fallow ingot]

Lmfao

[swift tinsel]

But nerf to cloud cover burst

[fallow ingot]

What is this cloud nerf

[frosty axle]

why would we swap to ds

[spice island]

6 sec duration for cloud and the rebuff instead of 10

[swift tinsel]

Bc it’s getting a bigger buff bc it’s not getting nerfed while trickster is

[obsidian cosmos]

it is worst

[fallow ingot]

Ikr sir

[spice island]

It's worse than that? I just saw the blue post someone took a screenshot of earlier

[fallow ingot]

I said before buff how many times before blizzard nerf it.

[obsidian cosmos]

u will lose the damage from SS for example

[spice island]

Oh right the faze doesn't stack secondary effects anymore, like the damage resist

[tranquil sorrel]

ew playing ds mioght aswell off myself

[spice island]

Oh?

[swift tinsel]

You lose triple stacking a 50% crit dmg buff on strike

Kind of a large nerf

[obsidian cosmos]

this

[spice island]

Oh ouch

[fallow ingot]

But

7% buff mean we can play old build

[obsidian cosmos]

yep

that's actually the play

[tranquil sorrel]

Do I just go assa

[fallow ingot]

Because cloud cover was 6% buff

[obsidian cosmos]

or just reroll to ds

[tranquil sorrel]

holy fk im tired of them changing everything mid patch cycle

ds xd

fk that ass

[obsidian cosmos]

yea

[tribal blade]

no scruples also got buffed

don't forget

[tranquil sorrel]

Worse fuckin subspec in the game

[swift tinsel]

Idk if the 2% increase moves the needle on trickster that much

[tribal blade]

i have no idea if that number even means anything

it sounds really small

[swift tinsel]

But we shall see ig

Yeah

[tribal blade]

but maybe maths more who knows

[spice island]

Still won't be getting raid invites 😎

[shut jay]

just insane that for one week we get to play something new and for the entirety of this tier some classes have been out of control damage wise

[obsidian cosmos]

probably DS vs tricket (Scruples) will perform more or less the same

[fallow ingot]

WE need our theory crafter fellas to guide us

[tribal blade]

i find it hilarious ranged hunter is finally mortal again and they're getting buffed

[swift tinsel]

Unlikely

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I saw that and threw my hands up

[hushed roost]

ngl the correct spec now might be bench

[tranquil sorrel]

yeah blizzard is trolling rly hard man

im actually so annoyed

[hushed roost]

start the discord stream boys

[tribal blade]

OF COURSE A FAVORITE CHILD OF BLIZZ GETS TUNING ALL THE TIME

[swift tinsel]

They legit can’t be even mediocre

[tribal blade]

they have a top spec

surv

there

[hushed roost]

you guys should see unholy discord right now

[swift tinsel]

Yeah but they’re fake hunters

[tribal blade]

literally not even bottom of the charts

[hushed roost]

people are freaking out about 5% m+

[shut jay]

grip is meta rogues aren't

[swift tinsel]

Bc uhdk discord is a very silly place

[obsidian cosmos]

well actually they are angry too bc they didn't nerf demon XD

[shut jay]

no amount of nerfs will erase the fact grip is needed

[swift tinsel]

Meanwhile voodoo posting devourer doom videos

Over a 5% nerf

When they’re 10% ahead

[brisk onyx]

[tribal blade]

wait seriously

taht's so out of touch with reality

if we were 10% ahead of everyone else and got a 5% nerf

i would give 0 fucks

[fallow ingot]

With 4 buttons press

[swift tinsel]

Can’t find the actual video but

Could be meme

Who knows am in bed on mobile and cba

Nanami meme

[fallow ingot]

We must wait the numbers and build infos

[tribal blade]

LOL

[tribal blade]

surely has to be a meme

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/how-it-feels-when-you-meme-nanami-jjk-gif-10683277372535996893

Idk I’ll slander that spec all day for free

[tribal blade]

rank 1 key groups are gonna have to wait till the 398 boost to be able to do the keys they were doing now

[tranquil sorrel]

HAHAHA

[peak ice]

So like a week?

[tribal blade]

unless the nerfs don't net them a full key level

[spice island]

What do you think they could/should add to rogue to make them more appealing for people to invite for pve?

[tribal blade]

A REAL RAID BUFF

[peak ice]

crit aura

[short radish]

Raid buff or a billion damage

[spice island]

Yeah that's real, honestly

[tribal blade]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/liquids-max-talks-rogue-raid-buff-situation/2296187

great time to post this

hit it with a like if you can

[peak ice]

does dh provide a raid buff?

[short radish]

Yes

They also provide a billion damage

[tribal blade]

3% magic

[peak ice]

oh

dam

[short radish]

Arguably the damage is more important for keys

But raid buff helps

[spice island]

I played a lot of Battlerite before I played WoW, I had hoped that things like incap or blind would be more impactful but like, I mean yeah aoe blind is cool but it gets cleansed instantly all the time lol

Sap might as well not exist

[tribal blade]

can i ban xaetheron and mafic from commenting on my posts

and turning ever ything into an argument

[latent kindle]

was ours a buff or nurf!?

wheres the pins

[swift tinsel]

People are asleep

[tribal blade]

buff

there's 0% chance it's a nerf

[swift tinsel]

Idk I’m done with rogue either way

Rug pulling burst out of the spec did it for me

[tranquil sorrel]

fkn hope so but i also fkn hope I dont have to re-re-re-re-recraft my fkn gear AGAIN.

[spice island]

It's so weird right? The class you think would be the burstiest

[swift tinsel]

Outlaw also getting hit

The two specs I was enjoying

[peak ice]

Goddam Assassins

its their fault

[finite hedge]

If you went crit, get ready to recraft lol

[tranquil sorrel]

yeah. Fuck that noise. I'm going assa. I'm m+ main anyway..

[upper crypt]

The little surfer emojis kill me

[peak ice]

What are they even bickering about

[swift tinsel]

Mafic is stupid and Xaethron is a jackass

So they bicker about literally everything

[tribal blade]

on top of spamming the rogue forums

combined they probably make up 50% of the rogue comments

with garbage takes

[peak ice]

idk why everyone floats that cheat death idea every time

[tribal blade]

this idiot is saying it's a W for outlaw

when they're now dead in the water

well not dead

but significantly worse now

[brisk onyx]

Mafic is a legend; he lives in his own world

[peak ice]

Whats with the emoji

[tribal blade]

dunno he needs a signature for some reason

because he's a celebrity

and every post he makes is a blessing upon us mere mortals

[peak ice]

ah okay, thought i was too old for a meme or something

[swift tinsel]

Typical brain dead batshit nuts take

[tribal blade]

always

[manic ice]

what was the reason DS sub wanted to aim for 1100 haste? i don't think this is enough to comfortably get an extra global in the SD window (chart says 1173 for .4sec grace period)

[jovial marten]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tribal blade]

everyone dislikes him because he spams the forums

with horrible takes

that is an insane amount of posts on the forums

[peak ice]

Lol, yea weird

[tribal blade]

granted we do the same in here

but still

[smoky crystal]

i have a question isnt this a massive nerf in shadowblades window with bl and first boss haste trinket i have a 13 sec cd on secret technique which means i nolonger get the bonus 12% from fazed for my 2nd secret technique because now it only lasts 12 sec overall

[tribal blade]

cloud is likely dead for sub now yes

[smoky crystal]

love it ty blizzard

[peak ice]

our takes are good though

[tribal blade]

the main diff is this is a place for theorycrafting and discussion on rogue

[hollow spear]

Got out of the plane to tokyo and saw the news. Gotta scroll up to know what opinion I should have.

[peak ice]

I feel like "Eh" is about right

[tribal blade]

there's also moderation on bad info

[brisk onyx]

maybe not

[tribal blade]

maybe not who knows

[unreal ledge]

i think we are fine, with other classes coming down and we are staying mid, they will eventually meet us at the bottom

[tranquil sorrel]

sub is prob dead if you dont want to torture yourself with awful DS

[peak ice]

Yea fuck dk

[ornate pumice]

Guys I m a spy how is sub looking with today blue post? Buff or nerf?

[smoky crystal]

love it love it i started playing rogue this expansion because my guild needed one now it gets this treatment

[tribal blade]

overall buff, for trickster unsure, for DS flat 7%

[opaque moon]

i want some of ur crack cocaine

[drifting ether]

We gained 6% on cloud cover and if we’re not using it now, we still gained 7% aura buff
Gotta wait for the theory crafters

[tribal blade]

huh why

[manic ice]

im still confused why ppl are saying trickster is dead. from today to tuesday trickster is still getting a damage boost, if you dont want to play DS. just play trickster, no?

[ornate pumice]

Ty guys

[opaque moon]

cloud cover is dead back to normal scruples its at best 1% buff

[tribal blade]

this happens all the time where DS is gonna be ahead and everyone just plays trickster

[tranquil sorrel]

if your content is heroic raid and +10 keys sure.

[manic ice]

what do you mean?

are you playing sub now?

[peak ice]

idk how a 1% buff/nerf will effect anything

[manic ice]

ur legit getting a dps boost on tuesday playing trickster, so ur saying trickster sub is dead right now and you cant prog?

[tribal blade]

it's definitely not dead

[manic ice]

yall are dooming for nothing lol

[opaque moon]

im saying that its exactly where it was pre 12.05

[manic ice]

just dont play DS

[opaque moon]

bottom of the middle

[tranquil sorrel]

I'm dooming cause I hate the crafting system and I have 5 pieces to recraft at this point

[manic ice]

and enjoy the tiny buff

[tranquil sorrel]

and it's fkn awful

[tribal blade]

people are upset it takes away the burst niche sub got back

[tall dawn]

dont forget rebuying flasks,enchants, gems for new stats

[tranquil sorrel]

LVOE THAT

[maiden oar]

why does he capitalize the Z

[tribal blade]

heehee

[fallow ingot]

I may have use a bonus roll in the void

[slim anchor]

7% buff baby lets goooo

[tranquil sorrel]

oh boy

[fallow ingot]

Got the Pit or saron ring for crit haste

[tribal blade]

keep reading

[obsidian cosmos]

well actually we have something like this xd

[tranquil sorrel]

Dont you love when they change our stat weights mid prog 🙂

[slim anchor]

Haha I choose to only take the positive of that article

[tribal blade]

who the fuck is trying to say sub is overperforming right now

are they high

[fallow ingot]

I dont mind, but bonus roll probaly lost is sad. Still have 4 bonus roll

[charred rain]

hi all, im newbee, trying to get better dps (not gray).
can someone told me what im doing wrong?

my macros for burst(all in one)
#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique (if i have charges)

and trying combine Ancient Arts + secret techique

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qdcyKrWPbXHZjNYn?fight=22&type=damage-done&source=8

trying use https://wowanalyzer.com/report/qdcyKrWPbXHZjNYn/22-Heroic+Midnight+Falls+-+Wipe+14+(6:43)/8-Оиратс/standard/overview
but it feel's out of date

my main buld
solo target - backstab + evis or secret techique \ Coup de Grace if ancient arts triggered

[bronze turret]

Did they change the fazed stack to 1 for sub too? It’s weird how they split it

[tribal blade]

nah sub still stacks to 3

only outlaw is 2 now

[plush roost]

Yeah im lowkey thinking they forgot a line

[bronze turret]

So how is it “dead”

[tribal blade]

it lasts much shorter now and doesn't give x3 crit dmg bonus

[bronze turret]

It’s still 16% more dmg for 12 seconds of blades

Than before

[wooden hare]

Can someone tell me how to feel please

[tribal blade]

yeah still is

[obsidian cosmos]

he's not but "Trickster: Additional stacks of Fazed granted by Cloud Cover no longer increase the magnitude of secondary effects, such as the damage reduction from the Smoke talent." hits hard

[solemn isle]

it misses your second sec tech now

[tribal blade]

honestly need to see how the math plays out

[bronze turret]

Ye it doesn’t 150% the crit dmg on strike, but that was a bug

[tight fjord]

OK so it's more damage outside of shadowblades, and maybe just don't use cloudcover at all? No scruples for finisher crit, probably better overall m+

[smoky crystal]

not for 2nd secret tech in shadowblades unless you have an ungodly amount of haste

[bronze turret]

I mean this entire cover change was a 6% buff. Keeping 24% dmg buff from it and getting 7% buff should be ok. Less burst, which sucks. But sub should be better than before this hotfix

[tribal blade]

will be yeah

[unreal ledge]

we agree it's a buff

[plush pilot]

This is probably a noob question, but why does my guidons come off CD after Shadow Blades even tho they have the same CD? Sometimes its a good 4 or 5 seconds

[bronze turret]

Outlaw are the ones that should be mad

[unreal ledge]

yes outlaw is bad, we are neutral to slight buff

[tribal blade]

maybe M+ affix

the cdr one

[peak ice]

Im hoping its just swapping out rings, and not a recraft situation

[plush pilot]

yoooo, that has to be it, only seems to do it in 10s

cheers!

[obsidian cosmos]

In my case, it's more about the fact that my stats are changing every week. XD

[fallow ingot]

I summon @vale pine

[bronze turret]

It’s unfortunate. But that’s the game

[tribal blade]

stats changing is more of a minor annoyance

unless we need to build 1080 haste for DS

[peak ice]

na

not keen

[jade oasis]

dude

[slim anchor]

I ain’t no math magician but I’m guesses it’s going to end up being a dmg loss by the end of it

[tranquil sorrel]

Ima be real

theres ZEROOOOO REASON to change this. ROGUE WAS MIDDLE OF THE PACK.

[sweet creek]

im sure this question has been asked 1000 times so apologies in advance but are totally sure that arcanoweave lining is our second embellishment? i cant seem to sim it on raidbots

[opaque moon]

ur getting 12 instead of the 20 seconds that made it a buff and its non linear because the timing inside of blades and dance windows with SS is what gave it such a strong window.

[brisk onyx]

Although cloud duration has been reduced to 12 seconds, but fazed duration may be almost the same, which is something to keep in mind

[fallow ingot]

Play old build, gain 1% from actual numbers ?

[jade oasis]

he doesnt even play the game

[opaque moon]

exactly at best its a 1% if that

and mastery is back on top

[hushed roost]

ngl might just play assa lol

but im on crown

[brisk onyx]

He has always been like this

[opaque moon]

sub is bottom of the middle now

[hushed roost]

so idk, maybe the burst is still better

dude im playing anything that has highest output i literaally dont care

[bronze turret]

Ye the talent was too strong. It’s still a 24% dmg buff for 12 sec during your biggest cd 🤷

[tight fjord]

24?

[opaque moon]

i cba

[bronze turret]

Each fazed stack is 8%

16% from the cloud cover

24% overall

For 1 dance

During blades

[brisk onyx]

I think it should actually be 18-20 seconds (especially in aoe situations)

[snow jackal]

but cloud fazed is only one extra after nerf

[tribal blade]

for outlaw

[bronze turret]

That’s outlaw specific

[snow jackal]

oh really?

[gleaming phoenix]

outlaw got taken out back and old yellered

thats a movie for you kids that dont know

[hushed roost]

is outlaw back to fatebound

[snow jackal]

outlaw fucked coming and going

[hushed roost]

i didnt read anything abouti t

[tribal blade]

i'm pretty sure they didn't do that for sub because our cloud cover uptime is far lower than outlaw

[bronze turret]

The change is removing the 100% crit damage on strike and reducing duration

[nimble cradle]

whats the verdict do we hate blizz or slight buff?

[hushed roost]

both

unforutnately

[tight fjord]

@bronze turret isn't it one less stack too

[obsidian cosmos]

both

[hexed basalt]

I just finished swapping my haste mastery to crit haste, I'm sad

[hushed roost]

its like 1% but we still hate blizzard

[obsidian cosmos]

https://klipy.com/gifs/the-road-to-el-dorado-both--k01KQKHF1574NP2HCYMYG45PJ0R

[opaque moon]

hate

[tribal blade]

the way i see it we could have gotten fucked like outlaw but didn't

[bronze turret]

Cloud cover is a different talent for outlaw

Unless they fucked up the format for the notes. It should still be 3 stacks

[tranquil sorrel]

welcome to the club

[peak ice]

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[hushed roost]

its technically 7% if you're coping with the ds crowd that that spec doesnt make you want to delete your character

[tranquil sorrel]

they need to delete that shit

[opaque moon]

go sin they’re top performer spec now

[tranquil sorrel]

I just might

[nimble cradle]

sin on crown sounds horrible ngl

[brisk onyx]

[peak ice]

are they good in m+?

[tribal blade]

sin is good in M+ yes

[opaque moon]

brain dead easy to

[river sky]

Chat are we back ?

[tight fjord]

OK so it's still 3 stacks

[hushed roost]

yeah back to pre 12.0.5

LMAO

[river sky]

Sadge

[hushed roost]

at least you can see better

if you think about the positives

type shit

[bronze turret]

What

[tribal blade]

except we're not going back to pre .5

[hushed roost]

we are not oging to ds

thats for sure

[tribal blade]

7% buff to compensate

[bronze turret]

Are you blind

[hushed roost]

here comes the copers

[river sky]

Probably can compete with sin in high keys now

[opaque moon]

literally

[tribal blade]

i mean it's literally neutral change if not a buff

[bronze turret]

Literally at least 7% better than pre 12.0.5

[hushed roost]

burst damage output is so valuable

[tribal blade]

and DS is 7% stronger now

[peak ice]

ISnt it back to 12.05 but with a 7% buff?

[hushed roost]

like legit so valuable

[austere island]

time to change all my gear to mastery again

[lucid jackal]

Ds = Larp

[hushed roost]

instead of going ds i will go dk

[tranquil sorrel]

can you stop promoting ds it's making me feel attacked

[short radish]

DS players aren't acutal humans

[hushed roost]

thank you

[bronze turret]

I mean you’re just wrong tho. Fair if you want to lose your brain completely. But it’s still 7% stronger than before the patch

[peak ice]

Dk defo didnt catch a nerf at all

na

[tribal blade]

i don't like DS either but i'm not gonna hard doom when we're not getting shot like outlaw

[hushed roost]

okay you gotta read the other lines of the patch notes unfortunately

then

[short radish]

what other lines?

[bronze turret]

You didn’t take cloud cover before the patch. You got 7% buff

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tight fjord]

Well shit, I wanted my gear to work for two specs, now crit is gonna be worth much less again

[hushed roost]

am i being pranked

[short radish]

yes by yourself

[fallow ingot]

DS is not relevent in raid for now because zero boss are pure st

[bronze turret]

Your mind might prank you

[hushed roost]

oh is this the ds guy

[short radish]

prepatch = no cloud cover
post patch = cloud cover strong but nothing else changed
post post patch = cloud cover not as strong but 7% everything stronger

[opaque moon]

but ds got a 7% buff

[tribal blade]

the talent no scruples also received a small buff

so no matter how you slice it

[tepid trellis]

Even a Lil buff to crit on finishers

[tribal blade]

we're gaining dmg

[short radish]

therefore we are now at least 6.7% stronger than prepatch

[fallow ingot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bronze turret]

I swear people are just stupid

[short radish]

[tight fjord]

I'm not stupid, stupid

[short radish]

yeah youre a malaka

[opaque moon]

yes they are 🙂

[tight fjord]

I'm at work I can't focus on this news

[peak ice]

Wheres the surfers emoji

[tepid trellis]

Im curious tho what 2nd effects they actually fixed on cloud

[timid rose]

When do we shut down the discord? 😉

[short radish]

never

[bronze turret]

All of it

I doubt they kept the 150% crit dam on strike in there

[tight fjord]

I want my theorycraft figured out ASAP, get to work boys

[gentle temple]

Back to bottom of the details

[tepid trellis]

Well 3x stackin fazed means nothings if its all of it

Would make it doa

[opaque moon]

dont tell him hes still coping

[bronze turret]

Fazed still gives 8% dmg per stack no

[bronze turret]

What’s ur problem. Go back to whatever hidey hole you came from

[tribal blade]

if we don't play cloud then we go back to a slightly stronger crit on finishers on top of 7% aura

[tepid trellis]

If that stays then u likely still play it

[peak ice]

Yea just like, dont play cloud?

[bronze turret]

Ofc the dmg remains, that’s not a secondary effect

[tepid trellis]

As 24% more dmg on CD’s tend to be quite good

[tribal blade]

this aura buff i'm guessing will make sub stronger in keys too

[tepid trellis]

U just wont play rotten anymore

[short radish]

honestly im down to not play with cloud anymore

[tribal blade]

ME. TOO.

[hushed roost]

ngl that shit is like

[short radish]

not that im going to be able to play sub in keys

[hushed roost]

i actually cant see sometimes

[tribal blade]

ahha yeah sub not exactly stellar in keys

[peak ice]

were we playing rotten before 12.05?

[short radish]

that + having to wait for boss to plant for 10 seconds

[tribal blade]

nah

[tepid trellis]

So you just go back to 1 point finality

[bronze turret]

Yes, but according to some lesser brained individuals in here, it’s not good to do 24% more dmg during blades and 1 dance

[tepid trellis]

With cloud

[solemn isle]

it auto refreshes even if you aren't in it

you dont have to wait for boss to plant

[short radish]

didnt that get fixed?

[smoky crystal]

i think sub is really decent in m+ its just noone invites you

[short radish]

it is if the only metric is overall damage

[tribal blade]

nah it's really not

[short radish]

so for your weekly 10-15s its fine to good

[pliant hazel]

any % yet on nerfs?

[tepid trellis]

Just have to see spell data on it on reset

[short radish]

but for anything competitive it's not

[tribal blade]

i did a random 18 AA the other week as sin

we would not have timed the key if i played sub in there

did like +20-30k more overall than sub

[peak ice]

dont make me go back to sin

its less fun

[short radish]

you will channel puzzle box and you will enjoy it

[strange chasm]

Luckily sub sin stats the same now

[peak ice]

bruh i fuckn hate that trinket

[strange chasm]

Or wait does crit get giga worse on next reset

[bronze turret]

I see it this way, if it’s not stacking the dmg buff. Whats cloud cover doing then? It’s literally just a dmg buff. So it’s just a smoke circle with 0 effect if it doesn’t still buff the dmg

[austere island]

not if changes go through

[short radish]

Its fine. Stats are whatever

[tribal blade]

yes haha

[short radish]

Just change a ring or 2

[hushed roost]

we are so back

[tribal blade]

but you just get more mast

[opaque moon]

crit dies back to mastery

[tribal blade]

your crit is too low

[tepid trellis]

It would drop crit alot if the crit dmg is gone

[hushed roost]

okay is witch a ring

[strange chasm]

I love blizzard and all these great changes

It's really nice!

[hushed roost]

like this or what

[lucid jackal]

Bonus roll for outlaw
Nerf outlaw next week

[tepid trellis]

Very likely an overall buff

[lucid jackal]

Thank you

[tepid trellis]

Next reset

[peak ice]

wonder if we change back to flask of magi

[strange chasm]

Bonus roll pit for crit haste

[tribal blade]

that's better

[bronze turret]

Your mistake is thinking outlaw would be allowed to do any dmg

[strange chasm]

Back to haste mast

[lucid jackal]

Apparently

[tepid trellis]

Outlaw = larp

[hushed roost]

make vers mast great again

[tribal blade]

outlaw flew too close to the sun

[short radish]

Outlaw almost became meta

Unluggy

[hushed roost]

do you guys ever miss flagellation rupture

[bronze turret]

Nerfed and hotfixed in every game you play. Truly unfortunate

[hushed roost]

or is that repressed

[strange chasm]

Outlaw was rising crazy it immediately gets nerfed

[short radish]

I like being able to instant press damage

[hushed roost]

that is nice

[tribal blade]

if i was an outlaw main

[short radish]

But doing big hit at the end also fun

[tribal blade]

i would be malding in the outlaw channel right now lol

[peak ice]

Think theyre still scared of the 3 outlaww stack from whatever season that was

[hushed roost]

i still dream of the cold blooded sec tech man

all good

[opaque moon]

they processed their grief already

[tribal blade]

acceptance stage nice

[bronze turret]

Sub rogues mald more for no reason

[solemn isle]

no chance lmao

[tribal blade]

SO TRUE

[solemn isle]

outlaw is way worse

[tribal blade]

sub rogue gets buffed=channel in shambles

[bronze turret]

Muh secondary stats

[short radish]

Because we have tasted glory and victory of being meta occasionally

[strange chasm]

@lucid jackal you still think outlaw for Lura after reset lul

[short radish]

Outlaw just eats shit every tier

[hushed roost]

bro i couldnt stop pogchamping during nexus prog last tier

[tribal blade]

outlaw might actually be one of the most shit on specs in this game

[peak ice]

Yeah lol

[manic ice]

Sub gets buffed - "when are we shutting down the discord"

[tribal blade]

i think we need to give them our throne

[opaque moon]

they brain broke sub players so hard that a net 0 is a buff

[bronze turret]

Now.. they could have kept cloud cover exactly as it was and still give 7% buff and sub wouldn’t be crazy

[lucid jackal]

I do genuinely think si

That or sin

I feel sub is just ass on lura lol

The timers are so bad no matter how u slice it

[tepid trellis]

Larp

[strange chasm]

Really huh

[bronze turret]

You’re just bored of sub guy

[strange chasm]

Everyone is playing sub tho

[lucid jackal]

No

I can recognize when a spec is good

[bronze turret]

Can you

You played outlaw for many years

[lucid jackal]

Everybody plays sub so everybody plays sub

[tepid trellis]

Assa sucks

[lucid jackal]

Same reason every sub rogue parse on beloren for weeks was garbage

[short radish]

i mean im dooming over a different reason.

these notes means they still pay some amount of attention to rogue. Our overall position/profiles haven't really changed (other than sub losing it's niche)

all I can take from this is that they are happy with rogue being as it is (beans tier to average)

[tepid trellis]

Less boss dmg than sub + less crystal dmg

[tribal blade]

ok everyone take notes, THIS is how you doom

[lucid jackal]

Shouldn't sin get an execute lust by now

[latent kindle]

sub feels better than sin

[lucid jackal]

Shouldn't u farm boss dmg

[short radish]

i'm a professional doomer

[strange chasm]

DS sub could go hard on lura

[vagrant sinew]

I mean its more that obviously theyre not happy they somehow made a 15% dps talent on outlaw and whatever it was on sub and it made it to live lol

[tribal blade]

that was so professional i'm sending you a tip right now

[bronze turret]

As I said when it was announced:)

Ain’t no way it’s living

[solemn isle]

it was obviously too much dmg loaded into a single hero talent, if you are surprised that got nerfed then you are nuts

[short radish]

im not surprised it got nerf'd, im surprised it got nerf'd so quickly

[astral axle]

this is like schopenhauer levels of doom and nihilism i love it

[peak ice]

I’m just glad I can use premed again

[tribal blade]

this is honestly a very good point

[night sluice]

how is the sub changes?

[tepid trellis]

Aite

[peak ice]

Fine

[opaque moon]

no changes go back to mastery

[solemn isle]

obviously outlaws are rightfully mad, but that was getting gutted for sure from the moment it went live

[graceful osprey]

I saw that sub is getting buffed. We aren’t getting trolled are we?

[astral axle]

huh

[earnest crane]

we are hardly get trolled

[tribal blade]

depends, we got a mix of people hard dooming and not dooming in here right now

[short radish]

like before i was running some copium that there is rogue reworks in the books in a tier or 2

but if they can drop everything to fix this when arguably no one except rogues give a shit about this. No one was really pulling or playing around it, and especially no one was mass rerolling outlaw.

It's a bug sure, and an impactful bug but very minor in the greater scheme of things.

Any effort done towards fixing this bug is also effort taken away from other rework/bug fixes LIKE DEEPNING SHADOW BUG HOLY FUCKING SHIT FIX THAT INSTEAD PLEASE.

---

arguarbly as well the bug made rogue not as shit tuning wise, and this either pushes back down or keeps net neutral but like why bother fixing something that doesn't really change anything

[tepid trellis]

If i had to guess its likely a 1-2% overall buff

[opaque moon]

all the gearing you did for crit switch it back to mastery play no scruples and u do the same dps tuesday as you’re doing today roughly

[manic ice]

at the worst, very small buff

[astral axle]

it was cool seeing shadowstrike hit like a truck

[earnest crane]

this buff is like 1+3=2+2

[night sluice]

what bug is it we are talking about?

[short radish]

end of the day this changes next to nothing about how we play except maybe we play DS again

and i'm good thanks, i'm sticking trickster

[astral axle]

lmao DS

[peak ice]

Yea I’ll take the 2% damage loss or whatever to not play that

[graceful osprey]

Seems like more Copium it is

[manic ice]

damage gain*

[tribal blade]

is the +2% to no scruples as miniscule as it sounds or do i not understand math well

[graceful osprey]

13.0, you’ll all see, trust

[bronze turret]

I would be very surprised if cloud cover is suddenly completely garbage. The 150% crit dmg is a big nerf to the talent, but you still get more dmg during cds. No scruples is prob just an aoe talent

[astral axle]

the last titan.... is roug....

[gilded ferry]

if u had to guess, mastery comes back to top and we swap out cover?

[tepid trellis]

Think u still play play cloud

[earnest crane]

i m just making a DH after this no more trolling 😄

[tribal blade]

we're definitely back to premed and warning signs

[fallow ingot]

Play old build, gain 1% from actual numbers. Ggs

[bronze turret]

More burst or flatlined dmg

[astral axle]

the funny thing is legit even if they make a meaningful nerf to devdh

[plush pilot]

but i just finished farming my crit/haste legs

fml

[astral axle]

havoc just waiting in the wings

[jade oasis]

i love shaman buff

[astral axle]

rubbin they hands

[peak ice]

Surely warlock needed a nerf to right?

[fallow ingot]

Warlocks are main characters, they cannot be Bad/nerfed

[tribal blade]

demo lock somehow getting nothing

[tepid trellis]

And you would always Pick burst

[peak ice]

Right?

[bronze turret]

Yep

[gilded ferry]

is seli retired

havent seen him in a while

[bronze turret]

Cloud cover is like a 16% flat dmg buff 12 sec trinket. I doubt it’s terrible.

[tight fjord]

I can't find the old class tuning post yet, so is this like a 7% buff to the older build?

[hexed basalt]

With crit haste? I thought sin was mastery 😮

[opaque moon]

crit haste

[short radish]

yeah at best we are 7% better off than we were 3 weeks ago

[hexed basalt]

Oh okay I'll have to give it ago

[fallow ingot]

You dont want to waste blades dmg. Cloud cover dont fully cover blade duration

[short radish]

thats the notes for the 12.0.5 patch

so like we're slightly stronger at worst

or net neutral

[tepid trellis]

Stronger

[tight fjord]

Oh ok so the cloud cover was like 6%overall but if we're going without it again atleast we have this new 7% gain and a small buff to the scruples

[opaque moon]

the good thing to come out of this is cloud cover was volatile to get full value putting power back into mastery makes it more reliable. bad thing is sub is way worse than sin in keys and more so now plus now it doesn’t have the same stats if you want to push high keys to just swap over to it for keys and raid as sub

[sinful zephyr]

wasnt it obvious that trippling every fazed effect was not intended?

[tepid trellis]

Yup

[unborn egret]

Didnt someone already say that these latest changes are a net 2-3% gain?

[opaque moon]

in delululand its 2-3%

[fallow ingot]

Wait sims.

[austere island]

I too love misinformation

[tribal blade]

everything is napkin math right now

[tight fjord]

Kay

[astral axle]

didnt someone say these are a net 6-7% gain

[peak ice]

To pre 12.05

[gilded ferry]

fuu and eleem are waking up to a hellfire in sub channel

[honest basin]

i heard we got 10%

[vale nebula]

I guarantee this is a buff 7% - we are going to pump. We got more dps at all times in all abilities. Sure our super burst area got a slight nerf but this is a win.

[tribal blade]

imagine they forget to nerf cloud cover but push through the aura buff

[kind edge]

i dont know why they never buff rogue like they did to warrior now, like straight lines of buffs. they always give with one hand but take from u with 3 other hands.

[short radish]

okay mafic, settle down

its not that good

[bronze turret]

A flat 7% dmg buff isn’t exactly 7% either cus it doesn’t include shit like procs and melee.

So it’s not exactly 7%

Maybe more like 6% actually

Not sure how big % melee has now

[tepid trellis]

Low contribution

[bronze turret]

Nice

But ye I don’t think cloud cover is dead. If fazed remains a 3 stack it’s 8% x3 for 12 sec. If that’s terrible, I’ll eat a sock

[vale nebula]

Just think about all our multipliers from talents and procs. 7% goes a long way

[tepid trellis]

7 is 7

[hushed roost]

yeah it goes about 7%

[peak ice]

7

[fallow ingot]

You guys are speaking too much without any sims yet.

[vagrant sinew]

source?

[hushed roost]

just napkin math for now

wait for sims

[peak ice]

Where’s the fun in that

[austere island]

I mean if we get 7% and we think about multipliers from talents, its around 7% I think

ive done the math

[tranquil sorrel]

67

[opaque moon]

7% is not 7%

[vale osprey]

Am I gonna have to gear back for mastery again? 🙃

[peak ice]

Maybe

[tranquil sorrel]

dont you love it?

[tepid trellis]

7% aura is like 6.3-6.4%

[tranquil sorrel]

I LVOE RECRAFTING IT'S SO FUN

[vale osprey]

I was very much enjoying 200k shadowstrike crits

[peak ice]

It’s like the most minor of issues

[bronze turret]

How big is strike dmg on overall. Not every strike is a crit. You keep 50% crit dmg. So you lost 100% crit dmg on 1 ability during cds. How many % dmg do you think that accounts for overall? That’s the question. Fuck the sims.

[honest basin]

i think it's closer to 6.9% personally, but sources say it could be upwards of 10-30%(my sources are the voices in my head feeding the delusions)

[livid frigate]

Well recrafting will be fun

[tepid trellis]

Id check my logs on lura

[honest basin]

[tepid trellis]

But im in bed

[austere island]

zesty

[bronze turret]

Surprised you’re awake ngl

[dapper stirrup]

Could now deathstalker be back for pure ST?

[tribal blade]

i'm honestly all for losing the crit dmg because it created such wild variance you had no control over

[vale osprey]

To think I fucking didn't take myth paladins ring in vault twice because we liked crit so much oof owie

[tepid trellis]

I raid in 4 hours

[bronze turret]

Demon

[tepid trellis]

Also i have a 5 month pup

U Think i get to sleep in?

[bronze turret]

Such a cutie

[unborn egret]

We going DS in ST on Tuesday?

[austere island]

try it

[livid frigate]

What’s DS to ST

[austere island]

live a little

[bronze turret]

I’m in the same boat except it’s a tiny human. So I share your pain

[tribal blade]

deathstalker in single target

[vale osprey]

Just 10x worse 🙃 dad gamer gang represent

[opaque moon]

theres interactions with aura buffs that throw other abilities into the stratosphere or the dumpster depending on the coefficient. for example blade flurry needs like a 12 percent nerf to keep it in check if they fuck with outlaws aura buffs by 3-4%

[livid frigate]

Oh okay no worries

[opaque moon]

7% isnt 7% cus of shit like that

[bronze turret]

Stay strong

[tepid trellis]

on our p3 pull strike was 14% of my dmg

with 36% crit rate

[bronze turret]

How many of those happened during blades

You can isolate

[tepid trellis]

29 casts out of 60

[vale osprey]

We're progging beloren and strike was just behind my Evis dam in egg phase

[peak ice]

Anyone know what the DK channel is like atm

[tepid trellis]

from 7.35mil to 3.93mil during blades

30% crit rate

[bronze turret]

I see

So napkin math %?

8-9% from strike during cds at 30% crit rate

[peak ice]

Oh not that awful

[short radish]

im gonna quote the 7.8% nerf to justify me playing sub in our p*sh group

that we now need more aoe damage

[manic glen]

And then this is the frost dk pin

[peak ice]

They were in kinda a shit spot

[tepid trellis]

if we cut the crits in half for fun i cba doing the actual conversion as i just woke up i would lose out on 1.25mil on strike

[bronze turret]

Ok I cba being super scientific. But 0.3x9 =2,7 and then 2.7/3=1.9% ish.

[dusky yacht]

Bruh I just finished my first nightshift at my new job and they drop this bs

[bronze turret]

So maybe the 100% crit dmg accounted for around 1.9% dmg

Idk

[tepid trellis]

so 1.25mil on strike roughly and 250k on blades

[bronze turret]

At least during that pull

[tepid trellis]

is what you would ROUGHLY lose

[bronze turret]

Ah right, blades too

[alpine wraith]

just took a mini nap

[dusky yacht]

Can they go one class tuning without turning our shit upside down, every 2 weeks I have no fking clue what is going on

[bronze turret]

• an entire dance during blades cus of the reduced duration

[tepid trellis]

yes

[alpine wraith]

we lose quite a bit of burst although if the time to die of whatever it is is like 10 secs

[tribal blade]

lol realest comment i've read in a while

[alpine wraith]

it wont be as horrible

but yea

biggest problem here is

if you didnt catch this one DS might be in the cards again

[tepid trellis]

my napkin says around 3% nerf if we had 0 compensation

[alpine wraith]

aaaAAaaAAAA

[tepid trellis]

between 3-4%

[short radish]

i caught it and threw it in the bin

[outer orchid]

I question blizzard everytime they touch rogue tuning
Like what metrics could they possibly be using to justify these changes

[alpine wraith]

yea i did some quick math and if you go no scruples it is liek 2 to 3% buff overall but less burst of course

[bronze turret]

Idk how I came to this math, but perhaps cloud cover is like 2% better than no scruples on st post changes

[alpine wraith]

but also we need to know implementation

[quaint breach]

sub too strong in pvp?

[alpine wraith]

sub got dogged in pvp due to some changes

[dusky yacht]

Oh we gave you guys a buff now we're gonna half it to confuse the fk out of you and buff the other talent so you get even more confused but also here is 7% damage randomly flung into your face, GL analysing this shit we sure didn't

[bronze turret]

Makes sense

[empty bobcat]

all dmg increased by 7% 😳 I think Im gonna snap xD

[alpine wraith]

at least we are very good at killing monks

[prisma ibex]

My guess is cloud Will maintain the dmg amp? What is the point of this talent If they remove it

[short radish]

actually maybe that is why it got "bugfixed" so quickly.

adding to subs burst damage in pvp is probably rather broken

fuck i hate pvp

[alpine wraith]

all talents are already nerfed in pvp

[short radish]

thanks im gonna spread this misinformation from now on

[alpine wraith]

quite a bit

ahaha

[hushed roost]

you guys have to see how fast dk bugs get fixed

shit is actually absurd

[alpine wraith]

i like to watch awc sometimes and it gets silly every time sub is good

it gets dogged

next week

[bronze turret]

This would mean it’s a solid buff. But ye. Just 1 sample to go off. Crit will average out to be higher in sim

[tribal blade]

that actually might be it true

[alpine wraith]

they give us our leash back and are like

ye enjoy

[tepid trellis]

yep

[alpine wraith]

you DOG

[tepid trellis]

strike crit rate in bis setup is like 34% iirc

[bronze turret]

Unlucky log

[tribal blade]

so many pulls i'm way below that

[bronze turret]

I hate crit % talents

Could literally just be 0 value if unlucky

[tribal blade]

honestly glad we won't have this variance anymore

it was so toxic

[short radish]

same

fuck crit

[peak ice]

Do we still keep eyes of the eagle on the rings?