subtlety

[left ledge]

you dont need to

just put atrophic on

you're useless as fuck anyways

[woven nimbus]

we arent nerfed tho right?

we just go back to old tree and do the same, just less bursty

[warm marlin]

no more giga crits

goodbye variance

[left ledge]

honestly this probably comes out to be maybe near neutral but less burst yeah

outlaw is def nerfed though

outlaw got shat on

LMAO

[woven nimbus]

ye outlaw is dooming

[livid cape]

So now we are back to mastery stacking

[left ledge]

well

crit is still good

so...

not really?

[humble jolt]

Ngl I tried outlaw and hated every second

[left ledge]

you just hit haste breakpoint and build crit/mastery

[frozen sphinx]

So with the change what does cloud cover even do now if it doesn’t add extra stacks?

[left ledge]

good news for you, all 3 rogue specs are still dogshit!

and will continue to be dogshit moving forward

[humble jolt]

I know

[left ledge]

it does add one extra stack

so 4% more damage

[hollow compass]

So i should prob go for the haste mastery pants with my bonus roll now

[left ledge]

LMAO

AHAHAHAHA

oh my god

[hollow compass]

I have like 670 haste 900 crit 900 mast or so

[left ledge]

these guys at blizz genuinely just are too funny man

[void ocean]

honestly at this point u gotta love how rogue is tightly controled, one sign on life and insta nerf/adjust, god forbid its like good in smth for a week

[frozen sphinx]

Ohh okay thank you for some reason I legit thought it added no stacks and was confused lol

[left ledge]

oh sr sry 5% more dam

yeah no

it just goes from 15% dam, 150% crit on gen and 15% DR

[native zodiac]

bring back manaforge sub rogue bring back manaforge sub rogue bring back manaforge sub rogue bring back manaforge sub rogue

[left ledge]

to 10% dam

[maiden oar]

so true

[humble jolt]

Assassination didn't get a single change is quite crazy

[left ledge]

and ofc the duration now does not cover blades

and since you delay second dance slightly

[honest void]

https://tenor.com/view/low-tier-god-ltg-mods-fossilize-this-user-mods-gif-14547219816455503839

[left ledge]

to cover last 8 sec

it also means...

[warm marlin]

dk time

[left ledge]

your second dance isnt fully covered by cloud cover

!

so yeah its pretty fucking ass

[bold pawn]

just made my guild give me this neck too because of the changes

[native zodiac]

im done with prog im fully trolling now

[alpine wraith]

you can still move stats around

crit is not bad

[bold pawn]

ye

woulda just have it to a healer tho

[drifting ether]

Rip to all the rogues that ditched mastery

[alpine wraith]

unluck

now the people that got belo ren ring

[random mason]

Reroll assa ezpz

[alpine wraith]

oh boi

hope their rls dont notice this

[timid rose]

Thankfully I kept my mastery. I did pick up omission Crit ring on myth tho

[void ocean]

can someone wake up fuu

we need tc answers xD

[drifting ether]

Cloud cover was fun to use gonna miss the burst

[chrome osprey]

wait, so is mastery back on top?

[tulip trail]

summon the royal math wizard

[random mason]

Pay fuu enough to wake up at 4am to crunch numbers for a video game

[void ocean]

how much is enough

[random mason]

Dunno ask them not me

[west vessel]

are we still on cloud cover

[random mason]

Until wednesday yes

[oak sorrel]

yes because the patch hasn't hit yet

[west vessel]

so switch after ?

[west tide]

qhat buff did we get in cloud cover with the 3 stacks

[void ocean]

whos them

[oak sorrel]

did anyone datamine if it was an overall buff or nerf lol

[west tide]

it was damage and crit damage ?

[random mason]

Fuu

[west tide]

what was the numba

[chrome osprey]

it's crazy that they keep doing this, rolling out changes and making people get gear and then a few days later hit it with a nerf. and all ur new gear sucks XD

[void ocean]

i think his pronouns are he/him xd

[patent crystal]

might be deathstalker time

[random mason]

Numbers now for fazed debuff

[lucid jackal]

What happened?

[random mason]

Check blue post

[alpine wraith]

they deleted outlaw buffs and nerfed cloud cover for sub

[random mason]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/augmentation-evoker-and-devourer-dh-nerfs-upcoming-class-tuning-381505?utm_source=discord-webhook

[alpine wraith]

so we still get a lil buff but

outlaw gets a quite sizable nerf

[lucid jackal]

Is this a net Nerf or

[alpine wraith]

for sub no

[void ocean]

for the 20 years im maining rogue it always feels like a short blanket, u cant cover both face and feet

[alpine wraith]

for outlaw i think they need to calc but might be a 4 to 5% nerf

[twin quartz]

is it a were not playing fartcloud angle now?

[alpine wraith]

likely

[honest dome]

shouldnt it be a slight buff or net for sub?

[alpine wraith]

yea read above

[chrome osprey]

so true man

[warm marlin]

prob big nerf to law

idk didnt do sub math

[void ocean]

i gues we would break the game so hard if that cloud stayed for 10 sec

[left ledge]

to sub i think neutral honestly

[tribal blade]

i'm not a numbers person but no scruples gaining +2% seems like a really weirdly small number

[left ledge]

we prob wont play cloud cover though?

i mean cloud cover will only cover one dance

[dull sierra]

I'm prepped :/

[left ledge]

so its just one dance gets 5% more damage in blades...

[runic sinew]

and loss 24% in your burst?

[brisk onyx]

Does the secondary effect include the 150% crit bonus?

[left ledge]

wym loss 24% in your burst

[left ledge]

that is a secondary effect so

yes?

[void ocean]

its gonna be 12 seconds

[left ledge]

ye

[brisk onyx]

[left ledge]

that only covers one dance

actually such a ???

[hoary orchid]

chat, its bed time here, but i just saw the tuning. We happy or we sad?

[tulip trail]

got blizz'd

[left ledge]

def sad

[random comet]

got rogued

[left ledge]

even if its a neutral change

its just a stupid one

but outlaw though yikes

YIKES

[undone ridge]

wait

[chrome osprey]

sad if you stacked crit atleast

[undone ridge]

whazt happend

[runic sinew]

for me I want a revert in 12% nerf in Black Powder

[random comet]

i mean cloud cover was an oppressively good talent but theres better ways to rebalance

[undone ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-in-the-rain-vegeta-rain-cloudy-dbz-gif-13994573155178415068

ok so were semi-cooked

[runic sinew]

if blizz change DN for interact with BP

[pale rock]

So we just reroll main stat back to mastery?

[tulip trail]

just a bit broiled so we are burned on the top but fine inside

[hoary orchid]

i kept mastery gear for MPlus atleast i guess

[runic sinew]

is a dream

[undone ridge]

same we chillin

[proper slate]

is burst window sub nerfed? or similar

[chrome osprey]

i literaly leveled and geared fully DH this week just for it to get nerfed, and now i can't even go back on the rogue with the nerfs..

[hoary orchid]

but tired of being a ragdoll of secondary stats

[chrome palm]

think ur ddh is fine bro

[random mason]

Yeah

[woven nimbus]

were just back to old build with pretty much the same overall dps

[tribal blade]

honestly kinda happy days, we playing premed and WS again

[chrome palm]

invincible ranged spec with melee kick highest damage in the game by an insane margin and damage buff

think its ok

[warm marlin]

nah

[random mason]

Devourer is going from 10% better than everyone to like 5% better than everyone

[warm marlin]

3% nerf its in the grave now

its only 20% ahead of rogue instead of 30

[somber sun]

Where, when ?? there was a change ?

[hoary orchid]

thats the neat part, ive never removed premed, its so boring

[chrome osprey]

same lol

[tribal blade]

because of cloud changes

[chrome palm]

lura 2nd crystals might not be possible after this nerf man im worried about reclear

[woven nimbus]

they gutted cloud cover but gave us 7% dmg

[tribal blade]

we were only running no premed+PE because of cloud

[undone ridge]

ngl i was at a party today and no one knew that im THE rogue main who dishes out purple parses

suffering from successssssss

its ok

[warm marlin]

you know our 3rd highest crystal damage is our ppal

[chrome osprey]

feel you

[obsidian cosmos]

maybe "Trickster: Additional stacks of Fazed granted by Cloud Cover no longer increase the magnitude of secondary effects, such as the damage reduction from the Smoke talent." They shouldn't apply this part to the patch

[gilded ferry]

fucking hell

i was full crit hast

[undone ridge]

cooked bro

[gilded ferry]

ill have to regear

[undone ridge]

gn8

[tidal solstice]

wtf is sub even catching nerfs

thats absurd af

all rogues need buffs

[undone ridge]

im asking myself aswell

[tidal solstice]

this is unacceptable

fucking blizz

[undone ridge]

while im pondering with my drunk thoughts

[unreal ledge]

cloud cover was broken and u would never choose anything else, so it had to go

[undone ridge]

bro its rogue lifestyle

get used

[woven nimbus]

but its not a nerf

[undone ridge]

u make the class not the class u

[manic ice]

why are we mad about getting buffed

[woven nimbus]

its just a change

[gilded ferry]

ill just swap to assa for a while, they are chilling as fuck

[woven nimbus]

its like a sidegrade

[hoary orchid]

i miss the good old patch notes with rogue just chillin stealth

[undone ridge]

if u roll like a G u pull it off no question

[tulip trail]

its bait

[undone ridge]

but u sweat like cray

and no one understands the struggle

[hoary orchid]

we where happy and didnt knew

[woven nimbus]

and we dont have to do that cringe opener anymore

[undone ridge]

assa is calm

[unreal ledge]

i like premed yea

[tidal solstice]

nothing changes with opener that i can see

[woven nimbus]

you dont spec cloud anymore

[random comet]

assa is kindda low key good, very chill, just boss dam can feel a bit bad

[woven nimbus]

so you get premed bakc

[tidal solstice]

oh

[undone ridge]

disagree

[brisk onyx]

I feel it a bit funny; it seems that UDK and DDH have been nerfed by far less than outlaw

[undone ridge]

assa is better for higher keys

[hoary orchid]

oh you think cloud is dead with this?

[gilded ferry]

btw, whats the secret on hitting lura, i swear to god it looked like i was hitting it with wet noodles

[lusty root]

youre just making things up lol

[unreal ledge]

ya that's why it feels bad tho lol

[undone ridge]

rather than sub

[unreal ledge]

replied to wrong person

[undone ridge]

its ok im drunk too

[random comet]

i didn't mean good for low keys lol, bad wording, i mean it's flying under the radar with how good it is right now

[finite hedge]

They literally killed cloud cover after 1 week lmao what. Burst damage? Nope sorry flatten that shit back out

[random comet]

it sucks in low keys

[woven nimbus]

why would we go cloud if we loose all the crit dmg from it and 8seconds

[tulip trail]

"we told you when we took out all the fun with the expansion that you cant be bursty."

[hoary orchid]

we went from 20 sec to 12 right?

[unreal ledge]

ya its just kinda dumb to give us a new ability then gut it so we dont use it 1 week later

[undone ridge]

assa is the perfect embodiment of: the player makes the class @random comet

and not the other way around

[void ocean]

its rogue

[undone ridge]

its not crazy hard but u still gotta maintain couple of things to pull it off

[random comet]

why does that feel like a dig

lol

[undone ridge]

whats a dig

[hoary orchid]

oh i missed the line of 1 fazed stack instead of 2... riiight, thanks blizz. gn8 everyone, ill cry myself to sleep

[undone ridge]

sry im not caucasian

[errant pagoda]

so its a push week till patch kekw

[woven nimbus]

only for outlaw tho

[tulip trail]

that is jsut outlaw. the reduced duration is the rip

[undone ridge]

re-roll u have free will

[hoary orchid]

oh thank god, that wouldnt make sense

[lusty root]

because its still better?

[proper slate]

sub and outlaw nerf burst

[tribal blade]

well it already doesn't make sense

for cloud to not cover the entire of blades

[hoary orchid]

did outlaw just had like half week of semi-shine?

[undone ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/christopher-moltisanti-sopranos-ma-dai-922114-gif-6961803426850142863

[elfin sentinel]

is there no way to set up any kind of alert for when coup de grace is up on the default UI? like glow or sound

[drifting ether]

As long as it’s a neutral or slight buff, we’ll still be playing sub 😂

[left ledge]

it replaces evis

[woven nimbus]

i dont think it will be better than 12% crit for finishers, but we will see

[alpine wraith]

yea it wont be

[undone ridge]

how do they keep the meta slaves up there like DH and just spit on us?

[left ledge]

if you have it tracked on CDM

[hoary orchid]

just macro it on BP

[undone ridge]

thats crazy

[left ledge]

i think it does glow

[elfin sentinel]

yah thats why I'm unable to put any alert

[alpine wraith]

not because of duration but because they killed the extra crit dmg

[left ledge]

but yeah just macro it

you're going to press it anyways

[tulip trail]

oh right that too

the sub-effect rip

[elfin sentinel]

it's replacing it automatically but I wanted an alert to remember to use it instead of BP in aoe

[west tide]

wait sub is keeping the additional fazed stack?

[left ledge]

yeah not like it matters

the talent is pretty ass

[west tide]

thats odd tbh might be oversight? makes no sense

[pliant kindle]

coup de grace in buff tracker, you can add alert or glow there p sure

[left ledge]

nothing about how they handled rogue so far in midnight makes sense

so i wouldnt try to start making sense of it now

[woven nimbus]

we only get 1 technique in the 3 stack fazed and we dont get any crit dmg for strike anymore
vs 12% crit for technique, evis, coup even outside of cds

[elfin sentinel]

I can add glow when spells are up but not when coup is replacing evis I think

[left ledge]

ye

they just killed cloud cover all g

[west tide]

ok im prob back on sub for lura then

[elfin sentinel]

which is why I was asking if there's any workaround

[west tide]

🙁 i was so pogged to be the law

[left ledge]

for boss dam 100%

yeah i mean

damn

[west tide]

outlaw was kinda cracked boss dam tbh

[woven nimbus]

sucks that we lost burst, but i really hated playing without premed

[left ledge]

look at outlaw boss dam

on lura

[west tide]

i was crankin the boss

[left ledge]

LOOK AT IT

[undone ridge]

it sucks

u feel like a lil hoe

[left ledge]

sub aint doing that

[undone ridge]

i hate it

[ivory salmon]

wtf is the rest of your raid doing?

[west tide]

bro its still gotta be good.. maybe not.. lol

[astral mulch]

so is this good or bad for sub can i get a tldr now of the state of rogue

[eager latch]

does this mean we use puzzlebox in keys again?

[west tide]

rip law i gotta wait

[left ledge]

huh

[somber sun]

wait so whats the stat order now on st with the new tuning ?

[left ledge]

they're doing... quite a bit of damage

LMAO

[undone ridge]

good work

[ivory salmon]

isnt 100k kinda low

[woven nimbus]

i mean even if outlaw lost like 10% dmg still would be p1

[left ledge]

for boss damage

on lura?

[undone ridge]

but i aint no raider so this dosent mean shit ._.,

[finite hedge]

pirate going back fatebound after this most likely. Its just a straight nerf to law and a kinda small overall buff to sub seems like

[ivory salmon]

you are obv blasting but the others seem kinda low

[left ledge]

ok ok to be fair that was a 100% jackpot pull

so

i thought it would be obvious by the boss damage being you know

140k

[native zodiac]

half your raid is trolling in that screenshot

[tulip trail]

lets all go to bed and fuu will bless or curse us with math in the morning

[native zodiac]

theres no way

[left ledge]

which is higher than 298 weps even sim

[tulip trail]

casino santa

[undone ridge]

for the memes

[left ledge]

can i see your p1/p2 boss dam on lura then

[undone ridge]

bro wants beef

[left ledge]

nah i mean

if there's other guilds shitting on our damage

[undone ridge]

smoke him

[left ledge]

we can learn

[lusty root]

thats my point, you were just saying it like it was fact lol

[left ledge]

anything to kill the boss faster

[peak ice]

It is a buff right?

[undone ridge]

🗣️

[left ledge]

not really

probably neutral

[unreal ledge]

small buff

[vagrant sinew]

should be a buff

[undone ridge]

crazy how players can hate the game

[left ledge]

might be a small buff but its def not anything significant enough to change our dps

[woven nimbus]

i mean its pretty much a fact cause theres no way 1 dance with 16% increased dmg is better than 12% crit for all finishers. but math will prove it in the end and im not a mathguy

[tidal solstice]

buff rogues

[undone ridge]

this is the equivolent of pulling a BBL

[left ledge]

like 7% but cloud cover gets gutted

and cloud cover was almost like what

10% for sub?

wait

[vagrant sinew]

no it was less

[tribal blade]

agreed

[left ledge]

was it less

[vagrant sinew]

and the other choice node is also buffed

[left ledge]

im pretty sure it was around 10%

but either way

yeah

[woven nimbus]

ST: +5-6%, with more damage concentrated into blades, so the burst window is around 20-25% stronger.

[left ledge]

this amounts to basically being neutral

[timid rose]

It's more consistent outside of burst.

[left ledge]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

Burst nerf

[tribal blade]

should still be 24% dmg in cloud though i think

[worldly violet]

sub is back?

[woven nimbus]

its litteraly pinned

[left ledge]

maybe a slight buff

[woven nimbus]

16% more, we still have 1 stack

[drifting ether]

Arms got a buff my alt going hard 😂

[woven nimbus]

we dont go from 0 to 3 stacks

[tribal blade]

ah ok i see what you mean

[left ledge]

ah yeah it does say 6% but

on my profile it was bigger i guess

the gap

[swift tinsel]

Dang that’s really really disappointing

Was actually enjoying having a burst cooldown again

[left ledge]

wait maybe im like

[tulip trail]

thats what you get for having fun - dh dev probably

[woven nimbus]

so overall sub is buffed

[left ledge]

misremembering severely

[woven nimbus]

which is nice, even if we lost burst

[left ledge]

im sim the difference rq

[undone ridge]

gn8 guys im gona think about re-rolling a vulpera brewmaster let that sink in

[woven nimbus]

brew got nerfed too

[swift tinsel]

Flattening out the line again, I don’t want to play this spec anymore

[undone ridge]

its still good no?

i was being sarcastic tho

[woven nimbus]

unplayable, just like devourer

[undone ridge]

ahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa

[swift tinsel]

The buff duration doesn’t even last through a full base blades duration

Why

[undone ridge]

ngl i could choose the easy life and be a meta slave

[undone ridge]

but i love suffering from sucess

[native zodiac]

without this weeks reset/gear

[obsidian cosmos]

still n1, becouse they hardnerf druid

[undone ridge]

successssss

[warm marlin]

holy blasters

[left ledge]

this is strictly p1/p2 boss damage?

[tribal blade]

blizz no thinky so good

[native zodiac]

at exactyl 315secs like you did

[swift tinsel]

I’m just

[native zodiac]

only boss dmg ye

[vagrant sinew]

you seem to love to complain because you cant grasp that 1 choice node talent isnt suppoed to be this strong and this was always going to happen

[swift tinsel]

Really fucking disappointed

[vagrant sinew]

im happy its after a week

[proper slate]

but nerf burst

[left ledge]

yeah maybe our damage suck ass then idk

here's overall one sec

[native zodiac]

your boss dmg is defo insane

im not gonna say that but i think your raid is also a bit low

[unreal ledge]

they both look close to me

[left ledge]

this is over the night

[left ledge]

we didnt really get anywhere into p3

so its strictly p1/p2

[undone ridge]

i dont complain
u put me in a room full of meta slaves and the work speaks for itself 😤 🗣️ 🔇

[undone ridge]

ahhaha

[chrome palm]

i think a concern with outlaw on lura

is that you have the downtime in p3 sometimes and can low roll inside of the damage amped phases

especially now i think theres no reason to play outlaw on t hat fight

[finite hedge]

deathstalker might be back, lmao

[chrome palm]

deathstlkaer is strong

i was palying it on prog

[compact rune]

sin stocks goin up (in keys)

[chrome palm]

before MM nerf

7% buff to deathstalker

[tribal blade]

looks like i got alleria neck just in time for possibly playing DS again

[chrome palm]

is the untold story here

i am back to ds st coping

[tribal blade]

holy shit you're right

[left ledge]

hmmm

[digital frigate]

any tldr -/+ with notes?

[lucid jackal]

I'm just playin outlaw bro no world we played deathstalker

[left ledge]

im looking at diff logs @native zodiac we are lil low but prob just something that gets better over more pulls im assuming

[peak ice]

Sorry wheres the deathstalker buffs?

[chrome palm]

7% baseline sub buff

[vagrant sinew]

dont you push into p4 30s before enrage anyways

[native zodiac]

yeah defo, wasnt meant as flame or anything

[chrome palm]

while they nerfed trickster

[left ledge]

nah i didnt take it as flame

we've honestly been having damage problems

[orchid laurel]

we already op and getting buff feels good man

[left ledge]

at least thats what the guild feels overall

[vagrant sinew]

guys playwhatever spec you want youre just there as moral support until seed carriers get reps

[left ledge]

so i genuinely did want to see how much others are doing lmao

but im glad to see we're not that far behind

[native zodiac]

we also turbo killed the boss and phased way to early

[tribal blade]

OP is a crazy statment to make

[ivory salmon]

its not that low i checked the timer on your screenshot raid dps on our kill wasnt that much higher

[native zodiac]

(my cds got completly cooked on sub)

[left ledge]

yeah thats good

[chrome palm]

i did 113k on boss damage to fks before this buff, which puts it at 120k after the buff, higher than any trickster log

[left ledge]

we got fucked on belo

[short radish]

mafic alt account

[left ledge]

we were supposed to kill like 100 pulls before we really did

lemme post belo graph

[tribal blade]

TRUE i'm getting rage baited

[swift tinsel]

losing 8 seconds of cloud cover surely isn't going to feel shit

and losing crit stack

[swift tinsel]

and fazed stack

[left ledge]

[ivory salmon]

yikes

[orchid laurel]

feels op above ur weekly 10s anyways

[left ledge]

we tilted

[swift tinsel]

get one fuckin crumb of burst damage

[orchid laurel]

idk tho im humble

[left ledge]

off face of the planet

[swift tinsel]

then yoinked

[native zodiac]

wait what how do you make it to the end of the fight and kill 70 pulls later

thats crazy

[left ledge]

it gets even worse

that 0.3% pull at like pull 53 or w/e

i was assa

proc'd 0 ambushes

in execute

[peak ice]

Where deathstalker buffs?

[left ledge]

[native zodiac]

lmao

[left ledge]

the boss had 700k hp left

one of our locks had pet on passive on first burn

[native zodiac]

man i played assa on beloren and i regretted it so much

[ivory salmon]

was there hunters mark on the boss can always blame the hunters

[gilded ferry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

nah that pull was

a legit curse

ancient curse

[tulip trail]

by them not touching anything on ds and flat buffing sub

[peak ice]

Ah I see, thank you

[warm marlin]

[native zodiac]

🤝

[warm marlin]

we had one singular second egg pull

[vagrant sinew]

too bad stealthi is killing lura this reset so he cant play his dream ds sub

[native zodiac]

we had 2 but failed the kick on the first one gg

[alpine wraith]

kek

[graceful rock]

yeah we had 3% wiped on 1st egg2 and then killed the next pull

[patent crystal]

:p

[tidal solstice]

outlaw channel in shambles

[lost rampart]

Any net numbers to the overall Sub changes?

[woeful wren]

I thought they were done with tuning

[proper slate]

Sub burst Window is the same? Or nerfed?

[tulip trail]

cloud burst window got oofed

[swift tinsel]

nerfed

[alpine wraith]

burst window nerfed

[swift tinsel]

I'm so mad

[alpine wraith]

overall dmg a bit buffed

[left ledge]

idk honestly i thought it was a nerf

but i simmed my profile

[gilded ferry]

dino, u think we are going back to mastery?

[left ledge]

and im happy to say the changes will be around a 1% buff

[chrome palm]

deathstalker 📈 📈 📈

ds chuds win again

[left ledge]

so sub is saved

[swift tinsel]

I just want burst man

[lost rampart]

Ty!

[swift tinsel]

this flat line shit sucks

[chrome palm]

devourer is right there

purple burst class 4 u

[swift tinsel]

already gearing it

our raid def needs a 4th ddh

we're planning on going rogueless next season anyways lol

[chrome palm]

speaking for your guild or for blizzard

[manic salmon]

just saying

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-por-que-no-los-dos-yey-gif-15089379

[pseudo fiber]

so we stay trickster? for m+ and raid?

[merry bloom]

if scruples went to 15% it might be better than cloud

[swift tinsel]

it went to 12%

[manic salmon]

we will see what TCs say tomorrow

[quaint lodge]

@warm marlin

bingusguppy spotted?

[left ledge]

well deathstalker is turbo ass for sub rogue outside of pure ST and still loses to trickster there

so yeah probably

[chrome palm]

they are buffing this spec st by 7% and these fellas are telling me that trickster is the play in raid

ds season in raid ipromise

[left ledge]

what even is this

i dont get it

[manic salmon]

salhadar

[quaint lodge]

dw guys just swap to 1100 haste and play ds for a singular boss

ds season fs

[alpine wraith]

actually funnily enough

[chrome palm]

maybe i shouldnt have bonus rolled pit 4 times

for outlaw gear

[alpine wraith]

we might go DS for st

[left ledge]

we are not going DS for ST

[chrome palm]

yes w eare

silly

[swift tinsel]

it just got a 7% buff

[chrome palm]

its giga mogging trickster

for sure

[left ledge]

i was a DSer from the beginning of the season

its just not going to outperform trickster though

[alpine wraith]

trickster does get liek a 2% overall buff after all changes kinda

[chrome palm]

it just does

[alpine wraith]

and ds gets the full 7

but uh

[left ledge]

deathstalker was BARELY ahead

[chrome palm]

no

[graceful rock]

DS was ahead in ST pre cloud, with cloud gone and DS buffed by 7% were just going DS?

[chrome palm]

i think ds is gigag undersimmed

i think last i checked

[proper slate]

But if burst is nerfed, not good at all

[alpine wraith]

well the thing with DS is it actually needs some nifty gameplay and being atent

[chrome palm]

like i looked at my damage on lura on prog

[alpine wraith]

so idk if people will like it

[patent crystal]

sadly i also think ds is sleeper

[chrome palm]

and my boss damage was way higher than anyone playing t rickster before it got buffed

[alpine wraith]

but might be the play for alleria belo and aura

[quaint lodge]

yea but what about crystal damage

thats what really matters

[manic salmon]

lura is assa angle

[chrome palm]

i stopped playing DS when mm got nerfed

[manic salmon]

🙁

[alpine wraith]

you can still press bp

but it wont be as good

[chrome palm]

lura is ds angle unless your guild needs help with crystals

that is my take

[patent crystal]

sectech + bp shouldnt be biggest diff

[quaint lodge]

im joking guys

these crystals dont exist past week 2

[chrome palm]

its a huge diff

even still

[alpine wraith]

some people still wiping to crystals eh

[chrome palm]

because ds secret does piss damage

[manic salmon]

lura is assa angle because lust in execute

shromple as

[alpine wraith]

remember now we are not in th elite elite guilds getting there

[chrome palm]

sub was doing the same or better st

and got 7% buff

[hexed wave]

nice sub buffed

[chrome palm]

look at secret here

this is overall including crystals form a 7:20 pull

[patent crystal]

gg

[summer lynx]

How are we feeling about these tuning passes?

[chrome palm]

just crystals

prenerf mm

ds sub is just an unholy dk

[quaint lodge]

have u done reclear yet

[hushed roost]

whyd they nerf burst while im in crown

[chrome palm]

we pulled it a bit but did the other groups instead

[hushed roost]

smh

[manic salmon]

cuz fuck you in particular

yes you

[quaint lodge]

yeah those crystals are lowkey a problem post mm era

[swift tinsel]

bc they're anti-fun

[manic salmon]

not really

those crystals are only a problem 1 minute in

[left ledge]

this is as close as i can get DS to my current profile

[maiden oar]

its fine for us w 2 ddh surv ele sham as main crystal hitters

[quaint lodge]

hi grouch

[maiden oar]

or maybe its just ele sham doung something else

but they spike around crystals so i assume thats it

[hushed roost]

oh well who cares bro time to delete rogue for udk soon

[manic salmon]

ele sham is blasting yeah

[maiden oar]

hello

[quaint lodge]

Surv is very strong too

[hushed roost]

KEK

[chrome palm]

sim is fake as hell

i promise

[left ledge]

it is only 1.3% ahead of scruples

so

[chrome palm]

i think me and charrend were the only 2 people playing ds

and we had top boss damage logs

with a sample size of 2

[left ledge]

its going to be ahead but then you're going to get parried once and lose your dps

[woeful wren]

are we still piss in keys is the real question

[chrome palm]

parry is not an issue lets be real it never was for me when i played it

thought it realy would be but it isnt

[left ledge]

uhuh

[manic salmon]

dude

[lilac stag]

Man look at those assa buffs.

[manic salmon]

fazed no parry

the biggest spoiling thing ever

[lilac stag]

Tell that to kingsbane

[manic salmon]

swapped to assa, got 4 envenoms and 10 mutilates parried

[left ledge]

but anyways

[manic salmon]

on a single boss encounter

[left ledge]

why does it matter

even if we got a 14% buff

sub rogues damage is nothing to write home about lmao

its still a shit spec

[ivory salmon]

kingsbana cant be parried tho can it?

[left ledge]

[ripe flame]

not anymore

[manic salmon]

not anymore

[ripe flame]

changed in s2 of tww iirc

[manic salmon]

it could in tww season 1

[manic salmon]

yaur

[ivory salmon]

yeah it was pain before

[chrome palm]

yeah this was an issue for sure

[lilac stag]

Now it can’t. Almost like not parrying was IMPORTANT

[manic salmon]

i had 2 banes parried

[chrome palm]

i never knew that broodtwister had arms

[manic salmon]

on one encounter

[chrome palm]

until she parried kingsbane like daigo vs justin evo 2004

[quaint lodge]

i do miss when trickster was granted to the entire raid

[ivory salmon]

when kingsbane got parried in the opener you just wanted to jump off

[quaint lodge]

no it was really fun .

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/daigo-parry-evo-moment37-evo-moment37-gif-16716468

pov you try to kingsbane broodtwister

[alpine wraith]

remember shadowstep is always a thing

[manic salmon]

vorasius:

[alpine wraith]

voraius cant parry i think right

[hollow raptor]

Only nerubar palace players have this trauma

[manic salmon]

that would be news to me

sometimes you just cant really be on bosses back

[hollow raptor]

Queen Ansureks ass would parry you

[manic ice]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[manic salmon]

boss parry should just be removed

[willow bobcat]

"Why did your dps suck that pull?"

[manic salmon]

its a melee fuck you mechanic that affects only melee in particular

[hollow raptor]

Well you see the boss parried my entire burst

[manic salmon]

no reason to exist

[lilac stag]

Rolled 4 x 1 buffs

[willow bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-johnson-noodles-gif-25332413

[willow bobcat]

This is why i refuse to play outlaw

[lilac stag]

It’s fine in keys. Raid it still tilts me like a motherfucker

Ion needs to make his nephew angry and remove rtb

[swift tinsel]

I legit get paranoid when I rtb with no loaded dice

going from jackpot to 1buff is

a feeling

[lilac stag]

I need at add loaded to my tracked buffs. I keep forgetting

[manic salmon]

and you will forget

[willow bobcat]

Back in Legion I played outlaw during the first tier. Never again.

[manic salmon]

until you are eating outside

in 2 days

and youll think

i need to add loaded to my tracked buffs

and you'll forget about it by the time you next sit down to play

[lilac stag]

The few paladin pulls on Tuesday. Roll jackpot or triple? Healer dies 20 seconds into pull. Wipe is called.

Roll single or double? We go 5+ minutes into the encounter and never see anything more than double.

[swift tinsel]

lmfao the classic scenario

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/crash-pc-gif-27163711

[manic salmon]

sir why is your parse green

[valid jewel]

Are we buffed or not? Sub fazed stacks look the same

[manic salmon]

theorycrafters sleeping

[lilac stag]

My guess is it’ll be like 3% more

[manic salmon]

chat vibes estimate no scruples about 2%

and deathstalker might be play (in single target) (if you can get enough haste)

[lilac stag]

[worldly violet]

suti is back

[lilac stag]

no one is going to want to fuck with that min max of mark snapping

[alpine wraith]

or apexing all DNs

[valid jewel]

guess it’s only a slight buff

[manic salmon]

what is DN

[alpine wraith]

i got so many dms asking about that one

[manic salmon]

maybe because you're pretty

:)

[proper slate]

With less burst :/

[lilac stag]

I don’t think people realize how toxic the new button ends up being for cursed min max

[hushed roost]

with the matterdaddy buffs do you think we're meta now

[manic salmon]

we're turbo meta

fotm

[valid jewel]

[alpine wraith]

well you dont really use it unless you are smart and sims cant really quantify it but yea

[manic salmon]

beating devourer in raid and keys

[unreal ledge]

b tier

[alpine wraith]

it can be silly on bosses like alleria or laura

[tidal solstice]

never playing ds so trickster better stay good

[obsidian cosmos]

i used coin yesterday for neck and ring of saron just for nothing (well i didnt get any of them anyway XD)

[manic salmon]

assa angle

dont let crit go to waste

[lilac stag]

The could cover time change makes sense

[void jungle]

Guys, what stats should we build now? 1100 Mast, 700 haste with guidon ?

[manic salmon]

tcs still eepy

check back in a couple of hours

and then sim your character

[lilac stag]

@left ledge if the estimates of outlaw are correct, I’ll be a bit sad while lmfao.

[swift tinsel]

out of curiosity, how so?

its less than a full blades duration without tier set

[lilac stag]

Tier goes away. I think it’ll get changed to 8 seconds.

[swift tinsel]

hm

[lilac stag]

I think they’re just experimenting

[swift tinsel]

but its 12

which seems very odd

[finite hedge]

Cloud cover is just legit dead. Outlaw goes back fatebound, sub goes crit %

[lilac stag]

and likely went too far.

[swift tinsel]

like its...arbitrary

[woven nimbus]

i feel like they didnt want the less % dmg taken part

[swift tinsel]

8 would make sense 100%

[woven nimbus]

and forgot about the crit

[chrome palm]

they hated me because i told the truth

[lilac stag]

I could never hate you. People just are oblivious.

[swift tinsel]

realz, why dis happen?

tis a sad day

[woven nimbus]

because theres no way the dmg portion had to be changed, we had a bit of burst but other classes have more and we werent even good in dps

[chrome palm]

that fella uploaded his consciousness to an ai that has gone haywire

[swift tinsel]

the ones that are deleting entire company code

[chrome palm]

perhaps

[swift tinsel]

who needs a repository when you have all this room for fun activities

[lilac stag]

Outlaw being good for 1 week.

[swift tinsel]

right its like

[left ledge]

all good

i will be playing DS sub on lura

i knew this day would come

[swift tinsel]

we got a taste of being fun again

and then

bam

[left ledge]

i knew it would come

[lilac stag]

Context?

[chrome palm]

welcome to deathstalker agartha

[left ledge]

rwf sub rogue

[chrome palm]

you need 1080 haste to enter

[left ledge]

i saw them playing trickster

and i thought

"thats kinda troll"

[drifting wagon]

hey guys are the changes a buff or a nerf

[merry bloom]

1% buff overall

[lucid jackal]

Deathstalker sub plays like ass hole

[left ledge]

yeah well its all we got

[chrome palm]

load up the dark brew build

[lilac stag]

At least outlaw can play fate

[finite hedge]

upside is that premed is back

[swift tinsel]

I'll load up dark brew when its banshee's blight

[left ledge]

they decided to gut outlaw like a fish

[swift tinsel]

also glad I have all this sweet crit gear

to not play rogue anymore

huehuehue

[merry bloom]

gutted outlaw and fucked sub in the process

lol

[left ledge]

nah sub is w/e

[chrome palm]

sub didnt get fucked

fucked**

[left ledge]

they just took the burst away

which is weird but

[swift tinsel]

which was the only fun part of sub

[split garden]

so is that an overall sub nerf?

[chrome palm]

its for sure a sub buff

[left ledge]

no

[swift tinsel]

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate losing burst

[chrome palm]

200%

[swift tinsel]

to gain it back

[left ledge]

its at worst neutral

[swift tinsel]

to lose it again

[chrome palm]

impossible to be a nerf

[lilac stag]

2000%

[chrome palm]

9000%

[left ledge]

i mean its a nerf in some dungeons i guess?

[chrome palm]

very high

[woven nimbus]

BUT PREMED IS BACK

[merry bloom]

so all this crit gear goes back to haste/mast now?

[lilac stag]

One expect blue name by Tuesday @chrome palm

[left ledge]

i guess its also a pretty big beloren nerf

[grand summit]

wait where is this from?

[woeful wren]

Did they ever fix the shit lingering darkness didn't scale with?

[ripe flame]

they added 20 more seconds to the burn so its ok (?

[stuck lance]

10 seconds

[ripe flame]

yea 10 + 10

[left ledge]

well i meant in terms of the damage sub can do

[azure stirrup]

Blizzard is killing all the fun to funnel more players to diablo

[left ledge]

not in terms of killing the boss

[sweet creek]

is anyone else's shadow dance + Sec Tec macro not working? like you have to press it twice?

[left ledge]

are you in range and is it on your stealth bar

[woeful wren]

pressing twice prob means on global

[left ledge]

or that too yeah

or energy

[lilac stag]

1. Are you in range?
2. Do you have energy?

[sweet creek]

i am in range but maybe not, i have only experienced this since the patch is why i ask

never had issues before 12.0.5 but i mightve just been off that night

[tidal solstice]

is it on your correct stance bar

[sweet creek]

yea both stances have the macro

[peak ice]

Probs just slighlty low on energy

[swift tinsel]

is it a sign I'm truly broken that I'm logging in to level my bm hunter

[sweet creek]

been doing this since week 1 of the season, if no one else is having issues then skill issue ty

[lilac stag]

post log. Likely no energy since not playing premed

[peak ice]

happens once in a while, but not consistently for me

[frank wolf]

Who is more back on may 5th? Sub or outlaw

[hushed roost]

outlaw is definitely back to the dumpster so

probably outlaw

[frank wolf]

How they got a fat buff again no?

[livid hamlet]

No they did not

[crystal comet]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[livid hamlet]

Nerf

[tribal blade]

DS sub is back

[serene notch]

We fina get buffed

[swift tinsel]

a burst nerf is a fun nerf

[serene notch]

https://tenor.com/view/kizaru-borsalino-admiral-marines-shades-gif-10682292755083267442

[grand summit]

So how much does this even matter?

[dire anchor]

outside of all the doom and gloom, how is sub even looking after all this tuning

[swift tinsel]

probably kills cloud cover

[merry bloom]

it jiust means we play Ds now

")

[unreal ledge]

solid b tier

[tribal blade]

thank fuck i have alleria neck now

this is gonna make swapping to DS so much easier

[brisk onyx]

[iron obsidian]

they need to make it to where DN works with BP now

[frank wolf]

Istagfurilllahhh bro knock on wood we never do that bullshit

[graceful rock]

or

consuming DN also casts a BP and CT for assa

thoughts

[tribal blade]

i would normally be in that boat, but i hear good things about it

[woeful wren]

just delete BP from the game already

[chrome palm]

Pretty obvious that they refuse to change dn

[tribal blade]

people who usually hate DS were enjoying it

[chrome palm]

Literally do anything other than change dn

They are so fixated on it it makes no sense

Worst most stubborn design ever

[swift tinsel]

it doesn't make sense why too

[tribal blade]

they have this thing where they're quadrupling down on DS design choices

for some reason

[swift tinsel]

there's zero good design justification for making it be as obtuse as it is

[chrome palm]

They would rather add a new button to the spec than rework it

[tribal blade]

instead of just making it good to play

[swift tinsel]

bc they don't give a shit

[grave parcel]

guys can someone explaint o me how these sub changes aren't a solid buff

[swift tinsel]

they ask someone down the hall what to do with zero context

[chrome palm]

But they DO give a shit

[lilac stag]

Burst goes burst. Rip Sub

[chrome palm]

Because they will rework mark 3 4 times

Instead of actually going with something good

Really crazy stuff

[swift tinsel]

just bc they're adding dumb shit to it doesn't mean they give a shit

[tribal blade]

just make mark a buff on the rogue and be done with all this nonsense

[swift tinsel]

it means they're told to do something

[iron obsidian]

ive always enjoyed DS in raid, it was kinda cringe in keys when i played it in S2 TWW for Sin, but I was just a prio guy anyways so it didnt really matter about anything

[lilac stag]

THANKS OUTLAW

https://tenor.com/view/jenna-marbles-thanks-obama-thanks-obama-gif-3884463

[peak ice]

Sure is a lot of doomposting again

[graceful rock]

dw guys, when they add a shadow bow ranged spec in TLT deathstalker will leave sub and go there and share the new hero talent tree thats less cringe

[swift tinsel]

its literally been the same feedback about mark since day 1

[merry bloom]

just waiting for fuu to update the wowhead now

lol

[grave parcel]

I dont get how its nerfing our burst tho were gaining more damage during that burst window but losing some time, during cloud cover, but all damage we do outside of cloud cover is increased byu 7%

[hazy lichen]

they arent?

[lilac stag]

Fuu will update the Mario gif first with trickster icon

[swift tinsel]

the power that was gained in burst windows is being distributed across the rest of our damage

by nerfing the duration and power of cloud cover

that is how burst gets nerfed

[finite hedge]

Definitely not gaining dmg in burst window with lost crit damage, lost time

[grave parcel]

Wait they are nerfing damage we do in cloud cover?

[obsidian cosmos]

so if we change to DS we have to aim 1080 haste?

[swift tinsel]

yes

they're nerfing damage we do in cloudcover

[hazy lichen]

why would we change to ds

[lilac stag]

The positive, I can set particle effects back to high.

[hazy lichen]

scruples got buffed

[swift tinsel]

that's the whole point of the cloud cover changes

[hazy lichen]

if anything just swap back to scruples no?

[woeful wren]

cloud cover was mostly about builder dmg tho no?

[obsidian cosmos]

that's a good point

[tribal blade]

yes, but also DS is gonna be very ahead now

[chrome palm]

Because ds and trick do similar st and ds is getting a flat 7%

[hazy lichen]

was ds buffed when cloud cover came out i dont remember

[grave parcel]

we egaining 7% overall to all damage so for 12 seconds during cloud cover were doing 31% damage increase with stacks of fazed instead of 24% now that we do over 20 seconds

[swift tinsel]

no

it just got the mark mover

[left ledge]

that...

thats not how it works

[finite hedge]

crit dmg got taken away

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

They torpedoed trickster and flat out buffed DS.

[swift tinsel]

yep

[grave parcel]

not sure why you laughing im trying to understand whats going on here

[swift tinsel]

literal worst timeline

[lilac stag]

just missing another 39% bo buff to finish off hell

[left ledge]

its just how i am sry bro

[grave parcel]

aren't u not even playing sub this patch gloomblade? thought u were playing mistweaver

[swift tinsel]

I'm being asked by guild what I'm swapping to lol

[tribal blade]

i'm honestly not gonna doom yet because it's overall a buff

[left ledge]

in m+ yeah

but im still the atrophic chud for my guild

[swift tinsel]

I'm dooming bc I just want burst back

[tribal blade]

losing burst does suck yeah

[solemn patrol]

7% of 0 damage outside cooldowns is still 0

[swift tinsel]

getting a crumb of it back was what was barely holding me to the class

[tribal blade]

but also gaining premed+less variance

[swift tinsel]

and spec

[grave parcel]

what about every dance we do without cloud cover

every dance is increased by 7% damage now

[chrome palm]

Let’s be real losing burst in this raid doesn’t matter

[left ledge]

[chrome palm]

Not when we can’t do aoe damage for shit

[solemn patrol]

my brother in christ, you think its a buff when literally everyone else sees what it is

[left ledge]

i mean this is a buff for sub rogue

[chrome palm]

It’s clearly a buff though

[finite hedge]

We won't even go cloud cover anymore most likely.

[left ledge]

its a tiny meaningless one

but it is a buff

[chrome palm]

Even for trickster it’s a buff

[wicked urchin]

im cooked

no way im getting enough haste

[tidal solstice]

so were back to where we were but with 7% aura buff, premed, and +2% to no scruples

[grave parcel]

I guess for me im pushing M+

[left ledge]

NEW BREAKPOINT

1600 HASTE FOR DEATHSTALKER

[grave parcel]

currently 3600 rating this seems like abuff for m+

[tribal blade]

THIS IS OVERALL A BUFF FOR SUB

[chrome palm]

I’m ready

[wicked urchin]

im cooked

[grave parcel]

so im trying to understand the math from the nerds is all

[left ledge]

CAN WE GET 2000 HASTE FOR DEATHSTALKER

[wicked urchin]

no way im getting enough haste

[woeful wren]

does DS not scale well with vers btw

[solemn patrol]

its not a "solid buff" like hes saying

[tribal blade]

SOMEONE SHOUT AT ME

[swift tinsel]

yeah being corralled into 1100 haste is a huge no from me

[woeful wren]

thinking m+ wise

[peak ice]

Can't do that here, only doom post and winge

[left ledge]

ehhhhhhh its a nerf for some dungeons

buff for some

[wicked urchin]

No alleria neck

[vagrant sinew]

the two main tcs for sub are both eu and its 5am so youre going to have to wait a few hours

[wicked urchin]

I guess I have a 263 l'ura ring

[chrome palm]

Alleria neck and Lura ring

[lilac stag]

Thankfully I didn’t finish posting the dad with 3 kids pasta. Will do that after we get numbers.

[left ledge]

i mean you're losing a lot of burst in cds

[chrome palm]

We can get there

[wicked urchin]

We aren't killing alleria anymore

[chrome palm]

Lura helm I forgot

Pure haste

[left ledge]

yo how sick would 2000 haste sub be

[merry bloom]

so if we dont get alleria neck we just stay trick i guess :(?

[lilac stag]

Engineering crafts. LFG

[chrome palm]

Can you slap arcanoweave on engy craft

[chrome palm]

Ds is still if you only purely care about boss damage

[cyan lava]

@chrome palm is nerf or no

[chrome palm]

In this channel buff (small)

[cyan lava]

Poggers

[chrome palm]

In other channel don’t be near any guns for a bit

[swift tinsel]

nerf to fun

[lilac stag]

That’s all we do care about

[hazy lichen]

lets be real nobody swapping to ds

[wicked urchin]

perfect timing being on l'ura right now with no way to get the haste

[hazy lichen]

too much effort

[merry bloom]

^ i agree

we go back premed tho which isnt terriblee

[lilac stag]

100% they are. You don’t know die hard sub rogues.

[tribal blade]

i dunno feels like DS is gonna be pretty far ahead

[wicked urchin]

i just took the beloren ring from my vault too

[tribal blade]

no numbers to back it up

but still

[peak ice]

Guess we see

[merry bloom]

i have myth NPX set

[lucid jackal]

I don't think ppl understand how ugly the ds playstyle is

[merry bloom]

so some haste

[swift tinsel]

huehuehuehue

[tribal blade]

i guess it depends how much the scruples buff is

[swift tinsel]

previously ~1.5% ahead of DS